Why jointers/planers do NOT make boards flat + square 

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You go through certain aspects that don't always make sense, but then you turn them into easy understandable solutions.

I sincerely appreciate the accurate labeling of "wood" and "hand" along with the bright, friendly arrows indicating which is which. So many woodworking RU-vidrs get that wrong.

I was a commercial cabinet maker working entirely in a shop. The jointer was used primarily to give you a straight edge that could be placed against the tablesaw fence providing a consistent desired width and hopefully square edge. Since all the wood we used came directly from mills, it usually came in 4/4, 8/4, 12/4, and 16/4 thicknesses, then planed down to near the desired thickness then sent through a drum sander where the desired finished thickness is achieved. THAT BEING SAID, wood has grain, a mind all its own, which decides how it will bow when material is removed in either the jointing and/or planing process, which IMHO makes this a kind of art knowing through experience how to respond to said variable conditions. I've cut solid walnut on a table saw and literally watched one side or the other bow over the other or away from it as you cut...kinda like crossing your fingers. StumpyNubs is absolutely correct...

Mate...congratulations on maintaining such consistently high quality presentations over such a long period of time.. This is what RU-vid should be!

This is great, man! So often I will execute a woodworking project based on what seem like reasonable assumptions, only to find that my stuff doesn't line up and being incredibly frustrated at the difference between my "logic" and the reality of how tools and processes work. Sometimes it's subtly malfunctioning machines, sometimes it's my lack of skill, but sometimes it's just that I haven't tested my assumptions thoroughly enough. Discussions like this are a great way to make sure that we actually understand what the heck we're doing! So thanks for helping us all do that without having to ruin our expensive wood or waste our precious time!

2:50 The second corner proposed here is a 90 degree corner in the cross section, but is already prone to leaving a board tapered along the remaining axis (typically the long direction). This is covered later briefly with the references to the correct tool (table saw) to correct that edge, but I thought it was worth saying that the second thin edge (third face jointed overall) is already a problem. Squaring something like a Newell post requires the same jointer, jointer, planer, tablesaw (or jointer, jointer, planer, planer, if preferred) approach as any other milling, despite having no thin edge to struggle holding against the fence.

I totally agree! Jointer > thickness planer > table saw. That produces the best results exactly for the reasons that you stated.

That's exactly what a Master Carpenter taught me years ago. Joint a face and an edge, and then finish on the planer and table saw. Excellent explanation. Excellent video.

I’ve been a woodworker and licensed contractor for 40 years and I never use a jointer for anything I’m not saying they aren’t useful I just don’t use them! in all my years, not one customer has ever asked me why I did not use a jointer , and the check always clears!

I love how your videos often answer the hidden questions that aren't at the forefront of woodworking, but that everyone who's used a particular tool has had to deal with and been perplexed by. I've often wondered why my edges would end up not parallel even though all my surfaces were dead flat.. now I know exactly what to do!

I’m a new wood worker and your videos are invaluable! I watch other RU-vidrs but find myself using Stumpynubs as a gold standard reference to make sure they are right. Thanks a ton for the straightforward and silliness-free content. Keep up the excellent work!!

you are 100% right. I had to learn this lesson the hard way destroying several boards before it became obvious that high school geometry had some pretty useful knowledge :)

Thank you for this explanation. I’ve tried to do this on the jointer. It doesn’t work! Not only was it scary, it just doesn’t work. So, it’s back to jointer-jointer-planer-tablesaw. But now I understand why. Really appreciate your explanations.

This couldn't have come at a better time. I just got off work, and I got into an argument with our face frame guy about this same thing. I am going to text him this video. Thanks foe doing what you do, James.

Thank You. As a woodworking student, I asked the “same question” in class after seeing the jointer for the first time. The instructor simply answered we do one side, then move to a thickness planer; no further rationale; you’re right; I couldn’t figure out why. I realized shortly after that I wasn’t learning; I was simply in attendance and left the program a week later.

Excellent video....I can't fathom how anyone can think a jointer/planer can produce square/parallel surfaces.

Great explanation. I think most woodworkers have tried that at least once 😏. I would only add that these techniques require perfectly tuned machines. I guess that’s obvious, but I thought I’d mention it. Also, in our workflow, we sometimes go back to the Jointer after the table saw, to take off the last 1/32 and remove the saw marks.

Your video clearly demonstrates how and what it’s used for. Anyone arguing that you can simply mill all 4 sides with a jointer has likely never actually used one

Love your videos! I just graduated from cabinetmaking, and your videos have helped me learn a lot

I have almost the exact same discussion with former co-workers whom we share the same hobby interest. Thanks for sharing.

I'm trying hard to not fill my shop with every possible machine. But when I finally got a jointer it made it _so_ much easier to get a board ready to use vs. shimming for planing. I love it.

Very well explained., I fought this battle about 30 years ago and finally figured it out. I wish I had your video back then. One thing I could never figure out is how do you process a board wider than your jointer? Planers come in 12- to 24-inch versions, but jointers are 16-inch or less.

Thank you James. You really do make a great point. PLEASE ... continue this series. Thank you!

Your illustration makes perfect sense. I didn't understand until you showed each step, and as you was coming to the final step, I already saw the flaw that you were talking about. Excellent tip.

Your explanation is exactly how I see it. I've been woodworking for over 45 years and use a thickness planer, jointer, and table saw to get a square board. I'd love to see the furniture made by those who disagree with you. 😄

Probably the best, clearest explanation of a jointer function I've ever seen. I can't believe all the confusion.

YES!!! While I can see your argument makes excellent sense, my brain keeps telling me I should be able to make that board a perfect rectangle with my jointer/planner. I’ve tried it loads of times, and it never worked and I always blamed myself for stupidity, ignorance, and lack of skill. I am no longer blaming myself thanks to you! 😊

As a newbie woodworker I have spent hours of thinking and watching videos to try and get my head around this. And in 7 minutes you have explained it perfectly, thank you.

Thank you, always saw through the over exaggeration of the capabilities of a jointer. Some one finally got it right

I'm surprised that anyone who works with wood would question this. It's very clear and logical that jointing two faces of a board will not make them parallel.

This is an exceptionally good video, explaining the purpose of the jointer/planer v thickness planers as well as the limitations of each. The basics are clearly presented and the pitfalls are layered in as appropriate. Another fine, practical video; thank you for the ongoing shop and technique reviews.

Thanks for explaining the origins of the nomenclature. I always wondered why my dad and uncles (who came from a line of wooden fishing boat builders) always referred to the jointer as a planer. Oddly they never had a thinkness planer in their shop.

As someone looking to add a planer/thicknesser to my workshop. I’m so glad I came across this video. Thank you.

I figured out when I first started woodworking you will get a taper in your board if you try to use the jointer the way discussed in the video. Once you have one good edge, run the board through the table saw and you will have parallel edges (assuming you have 2 good faces already). Then if you want, you can dress up the mill marks from the table saw cut by taking a super light pass with the jointer on the just sawn edge.

One of your best. Yet more reinforcement that a jointer is an unnecessary nice to have in MY two car sized woodshop. Find a friend with the tools you don't have.

Excellent explanation. I was trying to explain this to an assistant the other day. Next time I will send them here.

Thanks Stumpy you explained that really well and even a new woodworker like me could see that it. Makes sense to me. I have a small jointer handed down to me from my father in law and got the Dewalt larger planer. I've only tested it out because I got sick and haven't built anything needing it. I'm getting better and wanting to spend some time in my garage doing wood working. I just don't want to make to many mistakes with the cost of good wood now days. LOL Thanks for all you do for us.

When I first started having a go at a bit of wood working, when marking out for the shoulder of a tenon my marks never lined up once I'd got all the way round with my square, soon realised most of the wood you buy from DIY centres isn't square, just need a jointer, planer thicknesser and tablesaw now.

As you were explaining, I just completely understood the problem - and I only have a hand saw that I use about 3 times a year, lol. You are just that good at explaining.

I'd love if you did a video about air compressor requirements and air tools. There's so much confusing info out there about CFM/SCFM values and what all the numbers mean and what you actually need to do certain jobs. eg. Some people say you can do HVLP with a pancake, some say you need a huge 100L unit minimum.

This was just the explanation I needed, because I have been asking myself this question for months. So thank you❤

No matter how well or how many times you explain this some folks just refuse to get it. But thanks for your effort.🙂🙂

God, this is such a frustrating problem! LOL. So much for doing this hobby both cheaply and accurately..

One thing I didn't hear mention, but which I do for big pieces that are too heavy for my small jointer: jointing that first edge with a track saw. They used to be a lot less common but now that there are some lower priced options on the market, they're becoming more common in a lot of home shops. Then again, I don't usually have more than 1 or 2 huge boards to work on so I'm more likely to reach for my old Stanley No. 8 and get in a bit of a meditative workout.

Very good & clear explanation, thanks for posting for newbies! I learned all this from my dad who was a shop teacher for 30+ yrs, he showed me what to do...but never explained it as you did.

I trust James implicitly. Others on YT not so much. Thanks!

Finally! I get it now. Thanks for explaining that. I've never quite understood why it wouldn't work but just believed the seasoned professionals knew what they were talking about.

My jointer is vital... I buy 2x6 and 3x6 green rough sawn and then I sit on it for about a year (my shop is climate controlled, including humidity) and cupping, and warping can be minimized with the creative use of stickers and rarchet straps but never eliminated all together. I don't use the table saw though I go straight to the router table after the thickness planer.. always had good results

Just bought a 8" Jointer with a spiral cutter head. So it has the carbon inserts that have 4 edges and can be turned as needed to get a new edge. The same manufacture markets a jointer with a helical cutter head. I have been trying to understand the difference, and have been given several different answers. I would love to see a video explaining the difference. Thanks for all the great videos.

I definitely would have been one of those people who thought you 'didn't get it'. And I have all the equipment, but question if I've been using it correctly. thanks for the video.

Maybe not the ideal video suggestion for you, but i think a video with those techniques you mentioned at the end as to not use a jointer would be really apreciated! Since i think many of us (including, of course, myself) are hand tools hobbyist woodworkers and can't justify buying a table saw, jointer, or thickness planer at the same time. ¡Great video of course!

YES! I would like to learn more of that. Yep, you guessed it a newbie here--jointer of any proper size isn't in my plans because my shop is 110 and realistically can't be upgraded to 220. James, you are my "go to" when I need to learn something in a clear, concise, and non opinionated manner-absolutely love what you do and how you do it!

Great explanation!! I still can't believe someone called you an idiot just because you see the flaws in simplistic, half baked ideas!

I don't have a jointer, but I've wondered about this on and off for a long time, and I was right! Thanks.

Yep, jointer then thickness planer than table saw is what I was taught in school and then retaught when I started working in a wood shop.

I remember asking you about this years ago. Thanks again for taking the time to explain it to me back then, I appreciated it.

Way to go, Mr Hamilton! Another excellent video. When people call you an idiot, they probably think you're shilling for Big Sawdust, and it's a conspiracy. You're not going to get through to them no matter what. All the facts, science, real-life practice, etc. will never convince them. Glad you're here for the rest of us, though. You are appreciated! Thanks!

Another well explained presentation of a "simple" subject. What is assumed to be simple, actually is not. BTW... while large jointers are nice, many times a small one is all you need. Me, I get along perfectly fine with an old 4" Rockwell cabinet makers jointer I inherited (vintage late 60s). I never need anything wider than 4" for my builds. Very affordable compared to the big boys.

More info on secondary ways to joint edges would be helpful and to go over what you were saying about the jig for thickness planer. Thanks

Thanks James, this is easy to understand advice for all woodworkers.

this is what i was taught millenia ago about how to dress rough lumber. face on joiner with points of bow down first until cleaned up. (now this is where it gets tricky). with points down on a machined flat surface, if your board wobbles on 2 points, you must make it so the board is stable on 3 points before finish joining. do this by doing what i call an interrupted milling of 1 end. feed the board across cutter until the knives stop biting and remove the board vertically off the table, or continue the cut depending on how bad the warp is. here's the key part....do the process again but turn the part 180 degrees. rinse and repeat until the part does not rock on the table any more. once you have the condition of a stable part with no rocking, then and only then, can you be confident of a good dressing of that face. then you can straight line rip or tablesaw jig to trim and square 1 edge to dressed face. which means milled face down on both saws. at this point you have 1 face and 1 edge square to each other, and straight. joining the 1st edge instead of either saw is still an option tho. after that, your board is ready for ripping to size, planing or any number of other operations. the entire point of it is two faces flat and square to each other before anything else happens.

That is the best explanation I've ever heard on jointer/plainers. Thank you

Very well made video on a misunderstood topic. Also, people tend to forget we deal with tridimensional objects. You not only need a slice of a board to be squared, it needs to happen on the whole length of the board.

The harshness of reality always smacks my theoretical brain right between the eyes... Thank you Stumpy Nubs for helping me make sense of things!

What an excellent tutorial. Thank you very much. Tom Bruno from Eloy, AZ.

I'm new to woodworkand all this stuff seems like a lot to learn so I just use my CNC machine to do all that stuff for me.

James my only issue with calling a planer a "jointer" is that it confuses beginning woodworkers. Only in north America (U.S. and Canada) are planers called jointers, you alluded to that in the video I just wanted to your viewers to understand just how narrow geographically our nomenclature of a planer is. When I explain exactly what you have here, I start out by telling them a jointer is a planer and was always called a planer until somewhere around the 1950's/60's. Some believe it was a marketing ploy for the growing home woodworking tool industry to differentiate a planer and a thickness planer to beginner woodworkers of the day. How true this is I don't know, but it really helps when explaining to beginning woodworkers because calling a tool what it does is easier to understand how it works and how to use it than one that doesn't. My two cent's, All the Best, Chuck

I don't have a jointer and have never used one except under guidance from my teacher in wood shops some 45+ years ago! But I have often wondered if it could be used for this purpose but always come to the same conclusion: No it can't! So I'm glad that my layman pondering of the problem resulted in the correct answer! LOL

Very well explained. Sadly there will be those who will disagree. Flattening a board is a three step process. Joiner, planer and table saw.

I got you. I have friends that don’t get it either. Oh well, all you can do is try. I think you explanation is perfectly understandable.

I was going to argue with you because I have used just a jointer to do this but I always use pre-cut 2 x 6’s and 4 x 4’s so thickness wasn’t a problem and they were not warped or cupped in a weird way. If I was using rough stock or thinner boards I totally agree with you.

Doing my apprenticeship with a guy like you would be my dream come true.

For what it's worth (30 years carpenter) - I've always followed the "6 steps to squaring a board by power machine" ethos: 1) Cut to 1" over finish length (radial arm or miter saw) 2) Plane to thickness (thickness planer) 3) Dress best edge (joiner) 4) Rip to 1/8" over finish width (table saw) 5) Dress newly swan edge (back to the joiner) 6) Square one end then cut to finish length *Bonus step: Enjoy the journey! Hope that's useful & helpful.

ohhh yes ... took me a while to wrap my head around this ... got all 4 sides in 90degree ... but only along x-axis ... y and z I totally forgot :) flattening one side with a hand-plane and getting one side of the board in 90degree is some labour - but quite easy to do, compare to the price (and size) of the jointer for nonprofessionals more than okey ... getting the other side co-planar with a handplane is - at least for me - tough ... so if I had the chance and choice ... I would by a thickness-planer ...

Great video! I watched the old video a while ago and always forget the details why the tablesaw, jointer, and planar are all necessary. This feels a bit deeper of a video and elaborates on some of the more complicated parts

I agree with you now I have seen 3:38 of the video. MY solution to getting the last "wide face" to work is by using a THICKNESSER. (?spelling?) and sorry if that is where you went in the rest of your video.

I originally just used the planer and table saw all the time and just called my end results “good”. After I learned how to set up and use the jointer for projects, the quality of the end results significantly went up. Not like I made anything differently, I just had the luxury of making my pieces squared before working with them. Jointer is awesome

On an adjacent note, RU-vidrs that claim the running the edge of a board through a jointer is the complete jointing process. Nowhere do they first discuss, check and then joint one face. Even worse, so many defend their process when you challenge it. Your video is spot on, but you could probably touch on this (regularly for folks that don't want to look back at early videos). Good stuff. Thanks.

Great explanation! I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this for a bit as a novice and now it makes perfect sense. Thank you!

this is true also with machining metal parts. infact i would say even more so because of the precision demanded of machining metal. This old Tony made an excelent video on why its SO DAMN HARD to make a perfect cube. he needed a surface grinder and a vertical milling machine and had to go back and forth between the two machines several times. And, due to the nature of machining metal, STILL couldnt get it perfect with several faces that were atleast half a thousandths of an inch out of square

Thank you for sharing this with us today. Great information. Everyone stay safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia

Nice refresher of "Jointer: Lesson 1"!!! (I was wondering when you would mention the other machines (@ ~ 5 minute mark))

Clear, concise and well produced. This is why out of all of my original subs, you remain one of the few who I still watch. Thank you!

Yep. You get a reference face and a reference edge. Half way there! My woodshop teacher told us you have half the job done when using a jointer.

Great explanation. I have known for a long time that is how you are supposed to do it, but it makes more sense to understand why. Especially the part about trying to keep the thin edge of a board against the jointer fence. I ended up finding a used Delta clone 6” floor jointer years ago and that has made woodworking much less frustrating.

Hearing about people disagreeing on this topic reminds me of reading discussions about plane on a conveyor belt 😂

I think a better question is, is it "jointer" or "joiner"? Now, I've done 3 sides on my jointer, then the thickness planer. Doesn't make it right nor wrong, just saves me a step at the TS. I've even only done just 2 sides, then planer, then TS, all depends on my mood at the time. Great video, cheers :)

So I did this with with big oak beams, got pretty decent results, still they aren’t of any thickness so they keep their triangle shape as well. My workbench top half is triangle by half a centimeter. Practically not even a hassle, but it could be

I think the process of milling wood is difficult for newbies to grasp (I include myself in this category). James, in a previous video you said jointers make one board surface flat, but jointers do NOT make the opposite board surface parallel. That clicked with me. Regarding all the other reasons why one can't use a jointer to mill all board surfaces, I just take your word for it.

Another problem with trying to use a jointer for everything is that 90° in the shop is rarely actually 90°. If it is slightly off, that might not be so bad for one corner of a board, but each time you reference a previous cut made with the fence, you amplify the error, like the 5-cut method for calibrating crosscut sleds. You'd have to have your fence dialed in extremely accurately to make milling all sides with the jointer manageable, even ignoring the problem with the faces as mentioned in the video. How often do you want to recalibrate your jointer fence to keep it at super high precision?

Another excellent vid, thanks Stumpy! For the old timers these may seem redundant, but they are a God send for many of us newer folks to woodworking. Currently working on a project where I need the stock within a .01" for vcarving. Your vid explained perfectly some of the things I was running into!

I'd love a video on how to use a thickness planer to "joint" boards. Terrific content as always!

I remember not fully grasping this concept many years ago but it’s hard to relate to now 😝

Yes I would like to learn more about using a planer and tablesaw alone to mill stock.

This was an excellent video, I learned something, I love your channel and happy i discovered it a few years ago.

You talk a lot of sense in a mad world. Can I ask, should batteries always be removed from grinders etc. when they’re not being used. Thanks.

Great explanation! Can you explain how this process can be achieved using only hand tools?

I could have been a case study. The story is too long to go in to but suffice it to say that your older tutorial explaining 1 edge and 1 face on the jointer was the key to my understanding the milling process. Regarding this video, before you said it, I was thinking that those that disagree must be working with dimensional stock. I will not work otherwise and I have the embarrassing memories to prove it.

Thanks a bunch for the clear mind and information, James! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊 BTW, if anyone says they use to do it and it works... I just want to know how many fingers they lost. 😬