Why Martin Scorsese is Right About Marvel Movies 

OK - So I know the #1 criticism I'm going to receive is for comparing action sequences from Marvel movies to dramatic moments from other films. Here's my justification: 1. As I say immediately after that section, it's not that Marvel films don't have those kinds of moments, it's that those moments aren't the dramatic core. For any of the "cinema clips" I could have chosen dozens of other similar moments from those films that illustrated similar emotional exploration. Any given Marvel film might have 1-3 of those scenes, and dozens and dozens of such action clips. It's not about whether or not the Marvel films have such moments, it's about what's at the heart of each. 2. I'm being a little hyperbolic intentionally to make my point. The video is about feeling the contrast between the two. I expect my audience to know it's not a 1:1 comparison, and understand what I'm trying to get at.

Martin Scorsese seeking attention? Dude's literally one of the greatest directors of all time

What pisses me off is people focusing on the quote and not on Scorsese's real concern : Disney slowly destroying independent theaters.

Marvel fans are very sensitive to criticisms of Marvel, I’ve found.

I find it funny how people are saying that this video has been proven right since audiences don't like phase 4 of Marvel, when Marvel has been like this the whole time. This video was always right, most people were just attracted to spectacle or references to their favorite comics to notice. Now that Marvel has run out of original ideas or big superheros to draw attention, these things are becoming more obvious and people feel like they're being cheated. These movies have always been different than Cinema and everyone called them summer blockbusters. These movies made to be spectacular, appealing to all audiences, and profitable. Before Marvel it was the occasional Roland Emmerich movie or Transformers, but Marvel took the summer blockbuster concept into hyperdrive and burned everyone out on them. And Top Gun Maverick shows us that it's possible to make a summer blockbuster that is also quality cinema, unfortunately Marvel just isn't interested in trying that

What hurts me the most is knowing how much hate is Scorsese getting by only giving his opinion, defending the type of film that he loves

When the theatre is filled with noisy crowd who shouts and claps every 10 minutes, it's indeed a theme park movie.

I’m very lucky I’ve got a classic cinema near me that does replays of old films and try’s to run all the most known Arthouse films that came out that year. Let’s hope cinema never dies

3 years later and his comment is Aging like "Fine Wine"

Imagine saying that Martin Scorcese is seeking attention. I am a Marvel fan, but that's Martin Freakin Scorcese, saying he seeks attention makes you look very stupid.

The difference between movies made by film makers and movies made by studios.

Of course he was right, and time proved him right. Just look at how everyone sees the marvel movies for what they are now, because the hype has already passed.

There are a number of Scorsese pictures, that I know will stay with me for the remainder of my time on earth, and if there’s an afterlife I’ll still be thinking about them. After a Marvel movie, I forget what happened before I even leave the theater.

Even RDJ wasn't pissed at Scorsese, he appreciated his opinion

Asking Scorsese what he thinks of Marvel movies is like asking a Michelin-starred chef what they think of The Cheesecake Factory. We know it's not the best, but we still really enjoy it.

I so agree with this video essay, I've been reminiscing movies like The Fugitive with Harrison Ford, Seven with Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt, and Shawshank Redemption. Thinking about those movies I remember the genuine journeys and emotional revelations these characters go through. For Marvel in general it feels more like a Saturday morning cartoon from back in my day

I actually agree. The emotional depth and moments you could build up in all of these comic book movies are wasted to being a few small scenes whereas the fight scenes last minutes upon minutes and honestly, it's sometimes hard to keep up with as a viewer. I like some Marvel films but I also like tv and films that take their time to build and reveal.

It’s funny how people think that Scorsese needs to defend himself. He is a cornerstone in film history y’all. Lol

A film legend vs. Young Marvel fans who probably haven’t even read a comic

Scorsese is getting more and more correct with each MCU movie. They used to be impactful and well crafted, now they are all the same: same personalities, same quippy humor, same plot, basically fun to watch in the moment until afterwards

3 years later and Scorsese’s criticism still has merit I remember seeing so many people defend Thor: Love and Thunder with terms like “fun and enjoyable” when that’s literally what Martin claimed these movies were

Scorsese : Being cordial and respectful, carefully voicing his opinion Most of Internet: *throws him under the bus*

Marvel is basically the fast food of cinema

A thing to note is that for a majority of people, superhero movies or movies of their nature are comfortable and familiar. It’s a sort of “guarantee” that the couple hours you watch are not wasted. Art films are a bit of a risk. They are sometimes nonconventional in their presentation and structure and most people will pass on seeing them because they don’t know what they’re in for. It’s like getting a box of chocolates vs getting a Hershey’s bar. You’re in for a treat but you know for a fact what you’re getting with one of them.

At this point, MCU is not just a theme park, it's becoming circus

Chris Evans actually complained about this himself. There were two non-Marvel films he did during his Capt America period and he liked them and thought they were very good but he said nobody went to see them. Capt America was colossal and though people love Chris, they didn't want to see him if he wasn't carrying the shield.

I hate how people manipulated Martin's words into hate when he was spitting facts

There's a good reason the directing of Spider-Man 2 and the MCU feel so far apart. One is a drama that happens to have a superhero element - the other is a Rollercoaster thrill ride meant to wow you. They're both valuable, but they aren't the same.

marvel movies are like junk food. they’re fun and enjoyable but they’re not nourishing. they won’t enrich your life or change your perspective on the world. i’ve never left a marvel movie in awe, and i usually forget what it was even about very soon. true cinema for me leaves you speechless for a while after, deep in thought, even changing your perspective on life. it’s transformational. marvel is a good time if you want to shut off your brain, have a fun popcorn flick, and get an adrenaline rush from the action

I have never believed a character in an MCU movie was in legitimate danger, even when they _literally die._ I still don't believe it.

Movies like *Empire Strikes Back, Alien* and *Jaws* showed us that even popcorn cinema could be artistic, but these days popcorn movies have become mindless and soul-less. Latest example of a mindless cash-grab: Rise of Skywalker.

When you are a superhero, nothing is at stake because everyone knows everything will work out for the good guys in the end.

There's a difference between the likes of Zodiac, LA Confidential, Taxi Driver, The Lives of Others, the Troubled times at El Royale and most of Franchise movies. Story-Dialogues-Character development

He was right. Disney is oversaturating the film market. And as many other film studios attempts to follow the "Marvel Formula", it is just driving other genres of films away from hitting the theaters

The constant comedic relief in unnecessary moments makes me want to tear my eyes out.

I do agree with him. And that’s probably the difference between Marvel and DC. DC seems to be more cinematic, with emotional acting. 🎭 However, there has always been a dividing line between action movies and movies with more acting emphasis. It’s usually the budget.

I love that you gave Barry Lyndon as an example here. in my opinion its is one of the films that manages to really encapsulate what cinema is about. Similar to the music of Beethoven or Mozart Kubrik's work will be studied and admired hundreds of years from now. I tried to watch it with friends years ago, they were the kind of people that would love marvel movies today and they couldn't even follow Barry Lyndon for 5 minutes.

People are mad at scorsese for being absolutely right. Disney is going to ruin the film industry

Only problem I have with Marvel films is the sensitive fanbase. I had to deal with the attitude that every person has to love Marvel films or something is wrong with them.

I'm from the future and it seems old man was right

I just wish they'd give the genre a break for 5-10 years. I am used to the occasional comic book/ super hero film coming out every now and again, but it seems like we have been under an onslaught for the last 2 decades now. I am honestly shocked people aren't sick of them by now.

I love how he specifies exactly why he feels that way, they really do lack any sort of tension or risk. We all know that Spiderman is going to be brought back to life in the Endgame sequel.

"Marvel movies" are like those Multiplayer only games that we enjoy playing "Cinema movies" are like single player only, indie-like, traditional gameplay games that we enjoy worshipping

In 200 years no one is going to be referencing Marvel in their Great Historical Cinema documentaries, unless it's about the ungodly amount of money they made.

We're so post modern now that you can't attempt to distinguish between two concepts without being called out for gatekeeping

This also shows how the Joker movie had to be a Joker movie to get attention. If not, it wouldn't have recognition.

I love marvel movies but u are right. They aren’t the movies that make me want to make movies

This aged beautifully and horribly well

Films were more in depth and required somewhat attention to the entire movie and the characters. You can pick any time in a Marvel movie and just start mindlessly watching explosions and running. It's perfect for the attention span of the TikTok Twitch streaming generation.

A24 is keeping cinema alive in the midst of the ever growing mass produced cash grabs

Scorsese is our cinematic dad. Kids get mad at their dad, and then they grow the hell up and apologize. You’ll visit him every Christmas and cherish as many of those moments until he gone.

I couldn't agree more. I'm a bit shocked that this causes any surprise or outrage to anyone. My opinion is that what Scorsese means is that he loves when films transcend into an art form, and Marvel movies just do not. They are pure entertainment, which is fine and needed (I think). In the film Tár there was a scene where Lydia watched an old documentary about music and it said something along the lines of "there are emotions that you can express with words, like hapiness, anger, sadness. But there are emotions that are so complex that you cannot put them into words and that's where music comes in". I feel like cinema has the same effect, where sometimes they leave you staring at a wall, not quite sure on how to express what you are feeling. Marvel movies are all about the thrill, they are manufactured to generate that. They are just not the same.

There’s a purity to watching a film. It’s the artist trying to instill upon the audience certain thoughts or emotions or perspectives. It’s a very intimate experience. Marvel films are selling you on the commodity of watching a film. It’s selling you on the “world” they’re trying to establish across a number of different films that each contribute to a larger whole. They’re banking on you coming back to see the next stretch of road they create across this highway. There’s no purity to this because this art has become a business, and that business is getting your butt in the seat.

In the first Godfather, there are several times when you genuinely don't know if Michael will be killed. By the end, what definitely dies is his spirit and his soul is corrupted forever... ...you just don't get that kind of risk in the Marvel films. The stakes are so much lower. The portrayal of psychological pain so much weaker. The potential for revelation so much more diluted. They are fun though...lots of fun. Like a rollercoaster ride at an amusement park.

Either way hes Martin Scorcese he can say whatever the hell he wants.

"Top Gun : Maverick" is the real slap to the face of MCU of what a movie should really look + should feel like

My problem with the Marvel universe is it's so huge and complex and you have to watch every movie to get the payoff in every other movie. Which is awesome, but at the same time feels more like homework than entertainment, and you feel utterly lost if you're not completely up to date when watching the newest movie or series. The long interconnected story arc is great. But trying to keep up with it all is literally impossible. And now, bring on the multiverse.... 3 Spidermans was awesome and a huge payoff for someone my age. But I imagine some younger people were like "who the hell are these other Spidermans?"

Hes not wrong tho, most of marvels movies have been b movies wth A budgets

It's not just "popcorn movie" vs whatever. The main difference with movies like MCU, Fast & Furious, etc, vs even other kinds of popcorn movies, is that the MCU is a shared, never ending universe. Where the rules are always changing, dead characters can be brought back, the good guys will eventually always win. There's no stakes as Scorsese says. It's not that they're bad movies or not, it's just that they are the height of commercialization, cross promotional entertainment. They are action figures brought to life. They are theme park rides.

As others must have pointed out (not reading almost 21k comments), I'm sure this is not what Scorsese means. He doesn't mean only dramas can be cinema, never action movies. And I guess it's obvious the climax of an action movie is the action and the climax of a drama movie is the drama. You don't need to put them side by side to make that point. It's more about the mass production and loss of the artistic flavor of the work. Marvel is a product of entertainment for mass consumption, Gone with the Wind or The Godfather are artistic productions that entertain because that's the effect art produces in an audience.

This aged like fine wine after the shit festival that was Phase 4. And Ant man quantumania starting the supposed phase 5 doesnt look much better. Marvel is in a grim state.

Marvel movie - roller coaster ride in the nearest amusement park Cinema - road trip with your friends, filled with events and interesting conversations

I'm a diehard Marvel fan, but he's right. You can't compare Avengers Infinity War to The Godfather. Both are films but thats basically the only similarity between the two. One relies entirely on character subtely and dialogue delivery while the other relies heavily on action set pieces and immersion. Both are amazing and great in there own ways. I think he could have phrased it better when he first said it but he explains it really well it the article.

I actually want to thank Scorsese for his quote and the buzz it made across social media. His statement stirred up a discussion and that led to many articles and videos such as this one. I was a major Marvel fan and still am, but I was ignorant and oblivious to the art of films and cinema. I took the advice of Thomas Flight to expand my film pallette as the movies I predominantly watched weren't as "artistic". Fast forward 2 years later, here I am being a fan of cinema, and personally straying away from MCU movies as I definitely prefer my favourite films now, namely La La Land, The Grand Budapest Hotel, Dune, Drive, Marriage Story, Parasite, and so on. So to whoever who is saying that this video would not change people's perspective on this debate or topic, I would disagree from personal experience. Thank you, Thomas Flight.

I defend scorsese and other filmmakers who criticizes mcu films

"Marvel movies are the FAST FOODS of Cinema."

I never really saw Martin Scorsese's comments as overly negative. I've had those same feelings, and even though the Marvel movies aren't absolutely atrocious, their is something lacking in them

I tried having this discussion with franchise fans. It all boils down to : they think people who dont like the mcu or the likes are pompous pretentious snobs. But I think thats a narrowminded opinion to this subject, and I think they need to see great cinema. But great cinema is an acquired taste (these days) because it requires something of the viewer.

i kinda felt this, going randomly to a theater and at least 80%-85% of the damn rooms were filled still with frigging thor love and thunder (last week), and everything else was pushed aside.

what’s horrible that it changed the way people look at movies. I remember people being very mad that there were no useless jokes in batman movie or why was it so dark.

Martin knows what he's talking about. His movies are dramatically compelling works of art while Marvel franchise movies are more visual spectacles of themes with lots of green screen and special effects.

This aged like Wine

I don’t know if anyone else has noted this yet but in the montage you did something stuck out to me: Marvel has a lack of quiet. It’s one of those things you only notice when you expand your movie palette but there’s few moments where a Marvel film just sits still and let’s itself breathe without having to throw in a joke or an action scene. Take for example Inglourious Basterds where a lot of that movie is people talking or planning something but the plot is still moving forward or Martin Scorsese’s masterpiece The Departed which is also a lot of talking with some action but still really engaging vs something like Thor: Love and Thunder which is just jokes being thrown at you every 30 seconds but feels like there’s barely a plot. And you can make a more restrained superhero film without becoming self-serious or boring like what Batman v Superman from. Also this one’s kind of obvious but the lack of good cinematography, color grading and lighting in Marvel movies doesn’t help. Like it’s okay to take a moment to breathe and space the action out.

I feel like everybody’s being a bit too immature. People on Martin’s side are saying things like “You’re too stupid to comprehend real masterpieces” and people on Marvel’s side are saying “Martin Scorsese is jealous and artsy fartsy films are boring.” Artistic films are great films and when these films are at their best, whether you agree or not, are magnum opuses and masterpieces. But with that being said, Marvel movies (and superhero movies for that matter) are also great movies, they’re all fun and enjoyable to the mass market and their made to be fun. Comparing the two would be like comparing fine red wine to punchy orange juice, wine is more refined and high class but orange juice can be enjoyed by anyone and is more leisurely. Just because red wine has a distinct and sophisticated taste doesn’t mean that it’s better than orange juice and just because orange juice is more widespread and generalised doesn’t make it better than red wine. Artistic films are excellent and they’re more narratively driven than any blockbuster or action film out there but be real if you think that only these films are worth watching and everybody else watching other types of films set in different genres are ignorant then you’re just being pretentious and ignorant yourself. The Mona Lisa is a masterpiece but it’s not the only masterpiece out there and other masterpieces shouldn’t be judged solely on the Mona Lisa. The MCU is, whether you admit it or not, successful and for good reason, they’re fun action flicks that are designed to be accessible to everyone. The best MCU movies go even beyond that, movies like the Avengers and Infinity War are popcorn films sure but they both tell good stories and have thematic significance within the world their taking place in. But MCU films aren’t the be all end all standard of cinema. Just because a film doesn’t follow the same three act superhero structure that a Marvel film has doesn’t mean that they’re in any way bad. And they aren’t the best films either, some of them are bland or just plain suck, Iron Man 2, Age of Ultron, Thor Dark World. Not all of them hit the mark. Judging both types of films on each other’s differing standards would be completely superfluous. Both have their share of highlights and both have their share of bad eggs. The problem of today’s movies doesn’t lie in the fact that MCU movies exist. The problem is that EVERY sing film has to be part of a cinematic universe now. The DCEU, the Dark Universe, the Star Wars Universe, and now the fucking Valiant Comics Universe. All of them feel like copy-pasted Marvel movies. Not to mention that Disney is basically trying to monopolise the film industry or at least the Hollywood Industry. That’s where people like Martin are coming from. Personally I’m on board with Martin to an extent. It’s kinda frustrating to see that almost every single film that comes out has to be a marvel film essentially. And that’s not even including all of the LGBT controversy and how some recent MCU rottentomatoes scores are speculated to be bought. I don’t like the MCU personally but I disagree with Martin in saying that they aren’t films, everybody likes a good rollercoaster ride every now and then. But good God imagine if in every amusement park, every single ride was the exact same roller coaster.

Even Thanos--the most serious, philosophical, and dramatic thing about the MCU--was immediately turned into a purple joke man by every single fan, and it was hilarious because Thanos is hilarious. The MCU is all just Saturday morning cartoons with a bigger budget and slightly better writing, which is fine in a vacuum.

Scorcese is right. And the general problem with people is that they get easily offended and are misinterpreting stuff when it comes to something they love. You could say "That movie's dumb",that would translate into their heads as "Anyone who loves that movie is dumb,including you". And they get mad,so it's a wide problem of taking things personally while it isn't personal.

What no one is saying is that critical discernment and artistic literacy are in mass decline. The rise of technology as king has really marginalized art/literature/film pursuits imo. Of course you can roll the dice and do what this channel does so well, but many have missed that boat. Our society rewards different kinds of literacy in different ways and the arts and the ability to understand, create or even critique it is being lost, also imo. I haven't watched a marvel film since Iron man and Spider man II's. I literally can't watch these movies which have grown in cgi beauty and magnitude but lost the heart of the characters and story. I too lament the potential loss of cinema which has still yielded my favorite onscreen moments of all time. Thanks for what you! I love and appreciate this channel!

i love marvel movies but they dont necessarily stay with me for a long time nor teach me anything relatively new

Don't think. Shut up and consume products - Disney

The longtime damage Marvel movies have done to cinema is borderline criminal.

Isn't the genre he's trying to distinguish called Pulp Fiction? It's always been there, it's just shinier now.

Scorsese right about his statement, this isn't a cinema. İt feels like long run tv show.

Scorsese liked Spider-Man from Sam Raimi. Because Raimi (and Nolan, obviously) is a true filmmaker, with an artistic vision for the hero.

This video has aged like fine wine

Taxi Driver, Days of Heaven, Barry Lyndon, The Tree of Life….all cinematic masterpieces. Excellent examples to include in this great video essay👌

It’s also changed how people view and consume films. Viewers have grown accustomed to instant gratification, constant quippy humour, not letting the scene sit, and especially everything being explained to you immediately. I believe it’s genuinely affecting young peoples comprehension, attention span, patience, and ability to think something out. I’ve even starting noticing younger movie reactors on RU-vid skip to the end of the credits to check for a end-credit scene, MCU movie or not.

I'm not a superhero movie fan, but I went to watch Avengers: Endgame with my friends mainly because I wanted to see the movie. For 2 and a half hours, everyone was shouting and being loud I couldn't even focus on it. It's really like a theme park

The more movies marvel pumps out the more I agree with him.

3 years later watching this video makes me realize that, maybe, people and even marvel fans in general are starting to agree with martin scorsese. after 10 years of this type of movie, i'm getting a feeling people are tired. marvel is doing the same thing it always has, but it's not hitting the same buttons anymore. that's not to say it's getting better, since any "franchise" movie or show that lets the scenes sit, has more slow emotional moments as the climax etc are being labeled as "boring" and "a failure". so people in general are still too used to the instant gratification and spectacle of marvel movies, but i think it's an improvement that at least we're starting to think that is not enough.

The fact that this guy just shuts up and lets us grasp the concept and make our own conclusion while showing different scenes is priceless.

Welcome, here's 180+ people debating over the other person's subjective opinion on the comment section. Feel free to watch, peace :D

I think my main problem is that that marvel movies aren’t necessarily good or bad, but with how popular they’ve gotten, it’s almost an instant guaranteed money maker. And now instead of trying to tell a compelling story, disney can just keep making movies they know people are going to see no matter what. They aren’t going to flop, they are always going to play it safe, and they are always going to make money because of the brand name associated with these movies. And because they make up 90% of the movies shown in theaters, eventually they will only grow and put smaller, more risky films on the back-burner. If this continues the only movies that are going to be made will be marvel movies, and while these movies aren’t necessarily bad, having a balance between different genres and types of movies is incredibly important.

He was correct. In many more ways than one.

i actually started going to the movies just to watch indie and foreign films because im getting tired of blockbusters

This has been explained well by Matt Damon in his recent interview on Hot Ones. Studios used to be able to make back their losses with DVD revenue so they could afford the risk to let filmmakers make the film they want. But now with films being widely available online after release on BluRay, studios are only willing to fall back on safe bets such as these blockbuster films with a proven formula but don't dare to go outside of this formula to make something truly special which are the films the Scorsese is talking about.

Amazing editing and insight. Thank you. My personal experience is being challenged by my father many years ago as a child growing up with Arnie, Vane Damme, et al on how I could enjoy those films but also enjoy, and indeed prize, "cinema" films such as Battleship Potemkin. My answer is that it is not a zero-sum game, as most things are not, yet perceived to be. You can enjoy both, for different reasons and in different ways. I am wandering into hyperbole here, but is it not the same with music, food, and drink? We may know what is "good" but we also know what is fun!

Yea I don’t know why Marvel fanboys are so triggered. Maybe they need to watch an actual classic film that stands the test of time and shows us something about what it means to be human. Just like one cannot live on fast food alone, one needs variety and nutrition.

Marvel is great, but it's also incredibly repetitive. You know the villain is going to die and the hero is gonna end up with his girl. When I told my friends that Chris Nolan's Batman trilogy is better then marvel they scoffed. People are starting to think that Scorsese-like films are just for movie nerds or whatever and that you can only watch marvel or anything disney when you're at the movie theater or with your friends. Marvel is really great and the characters will stick with me till the end of time but Scorsese movies are truly art and shouldn't be collecting dust

He’s not lying. The moment I saw Tom Hanks on Apple TV, was the moment I realized the battle has officially been lost. Tom Hanks is a cinema legend. Martin is a cinema legend, yet his work is on Netflix. The battle has been lost. Movie theaters will soon, only show action packed adventure movies. “The fault in our stars,” got a movie a few years ago. However, “looking for Alaska,” -a better book- got shipped to Hulu.

People are entitled to like whatever movie they like however they like. There's room for everyone