Why Miguel O’Hara Is A Perfect Antagonist (A Character Study) 

He is unreasonable though

​@@soraisfinallyhere1305 Trying to prevent millions from dying is unreasonable?

@Exilefromtomorrow being motivated by grief is exactly why i love him, and i hate how none of my friends agree with me. it shows him off as truly human. he may be in charge, but hes not some super genius that has everything under control. hes a broken man, trying desperately to stop other people from making the same mistake he made, and his emotions blind him sometimes. he's a mess, in a good way. i personally believe that his grief is what is causing him to butt heads with miles so hard, because if there's even a miniscule chance miles could cause his universe to collapse, he is going to do his best to stop him. hes paranoid, aggressive, and unwell, and thats what makes him compelling to me

He's convinced by predictive models and insists everyone else abides them as well through brute force. Sounds familiar?

Lmao no he’s a fascist. He’s insanely wrong about a lot of things and is purely driven by his past. Multiple Spider-Man are allowed to exist in the same world, captain’s can be save and not everything is set. Miles in completely right in saying that we shouldn’t listen to some BS algorithm.

i wouldnt say knowledge, i think miguel is bullshitting the canon events dont make sense and its more like a trauma dump

@@spookbag24 Idk about that, Peter B was also present with Miguel when that universe collapsed

Hobie is Chaotic Neutral.

@@Gamfluent if miles is an anomaly, the original anomaly then why does he still have canon events also shouldn't getting BITTEN be a canon event? why is earth 42 universe not broken because without getting bitten, none of the canon events happen therefore it shouldn't be there pavitr's universe isnt even broken either, all the team needs to do is show up with those little machines and everything is fine

@@spookbag24eah we as the viewers basically have the full context of the situation. Miguel is clearly riddled with trauma and is not taking any chances, it’s what makes him a good antagonist he isn’t wrong to do the things he is doing considering that the consequence of failure is the lives of trillions and the limited amount of info he has access to

This is a really detailed and accurate description of Miguel’s abilities and fighting style. I am impressed and agree with your analysis 👍

That's pretty much it. Even in the comics, Miguel was designed as the "Anti Spider-man". Everything he does is reversed: No strategy, just brute force No jokes, just seriousness >:3 No Spider-sense, but accelerated vision.

Well he definitely could’ve capitalized on it, he had him hard pinned down so he could’ve used his claws, bite, or the blades on his arms but he didn’t because plot.

​@@gamerman6494be didn't use those abillaties because he didn't wanna kill him not because of the plot

I thought he could climb walls as a normal spiderman? Edge of time lied to me 😭

In his defense its hard to be nice when the fate of the multiverse hangs in the balance.

The difference between Miguel and Wolf is that Wolf isn’t “just doing his job” if that were the case then he wouldn’t interfere with Puss and he’d just let him die on his own like how he did the other 8 times, that’s his job What he did in the film was taking it personally and wanting to kill Puss early himself which is not his job, he even gets mad at himself in the end for not killing Puss sooner, even if he never intended on actually killing Puss (which I doubt) scaring Puss and provoking him throughout the film is still not in his job description Whereas Miguel is actually doing his job in making sure canon events are not interfered with

@@fellowpassenger_54-67 ​​⁠ Death’s goal was to make Puss value his life. While Death does admit to enjoying the hunt, there are a few key moments that imply that he would have let Puss live if he had just learned to value his existence. The biggest support of this is Puss’ time with Mama Luna. He was there for weeks according to Kitty, yet Death - a character who can straight up teleport through space let Puss live. He never continued hunting him down, when he could have easily continued to torture and kill him. The second moment of support of this is the time in the cave of reflection, specifically Death’s critique of Puss’ treatment of his lives. “I find the idea of nine lives, absurd. And *you* didn’t value *any of them.*” Death isn’t pissed at Puss just because he’s a cat, otherwise he’d be slaughtering cats left and right. It’s his blatant mistreatment of the gift he has been given. Puss got lucky being born a cat, yet he didn’t respect life. He treated them as a joke, wasting them. Metaphorically spiting in the face of everyone Death has had to put down, whether by natural causes or otherwise. He’s pissed at Puss for defying the natural order, so in his mind it’s only fair Puss gets the same treatment. The last moment is indeed the final battle. Death kept Puss’ sword, and offers it back to him. He wants Puss to fight back, not only because it’s fun for him - but because he wants Puss to learn his lesson. Death knows he can’t die, you’d and kill death. Oxymoron aside he’s literally the physical embodiment of the absence of life. By the end of the fight, he’s frustrated yes, but he’s honor bound. He lets Puss live because he no longer believes himself an immortal, someone that’s above life because he was born under lucky circumstances. “I came here looking for a little legend who thought he was immortal. But I don’t see him anymore”. Death has no problem breaking the rules, this is the crux of his character. Yet, he is still honorable. He has motives. He is cruel yes, but not just in the service of his own hedonistic desires. He is doing what he believes would be a favor to the world.

Adachi together strong

​@@goldenaries0860 That still doesn't make it his job. Death is going against his job in the movie.

Actually not all villains are antagonists. Walter white is definitely a villain, but he isn't the antagonist, he's literally the main character.

@@wooblydooblygod3857MultifandomEldingArum was talking about “bad guys” on the other end of the villain spectrum, not the protagonist’s. Walter white is who we, the audience, are supposed to be rooting for, an old man who doesn’t get treated right by his colleagues and family. He starts off as just an ordinary protagonist until he breaks multiple laws and becomes a criminal, then the villain (protagonist) nearing the end of the show. Which by that point people could say that Walt is the antagonist and Hank is the protagonist, until Ozymandias, then the roles of protagonist and antagonist, in a way, get flipped back around and we are rooting for Walter to take revenge.

@@tommysalami586 villain and antagonist are separate labels, but often used together. Not that I mind.

@@wooblydooblygod3857 Guess that’s a simpler way of saying what I said. My point also was that the labels of protagonist and antagonist go hand in hand with the main character in anti hero shows. Like dexter, more so breaking bad for a better example. Since killing isn’t exactly justified like how dexter does it.

disagreed. villians can be protagonists, like light yagami from death note, there isn't a single bad person in the series that takes much screentime, making him the main villian.

Well there’s the fact that their situations are completely different Miles wanted to save his dad and Miguel broke canon by taking a Spider-Man’s spot in a universe that wasn’t his. Also there’s the fact that Indian Spider-Man’s universe seems to be intact even though the police chief was saved

@@keandregreen5628I’m 1000% sure that was Spot’s doing

​@@MiyaMam948agree the collider not only power up spot but unleash excess dark matter on the building causing the destruction

Brooooo……Miles Is Trying to save his dad…..lmaoooo like What ????? Idc who else is dying I’m trying to save my dad if I knew he was dying in the near future

@@Culley91 It wouldn’t matter if you saved your dad or not you would all still die.

And now, I'm afraid to switch to something else, or my Universe will be destroyed.

Hey siri!, how do you change a cannon event?

Truth 🤣😔

This comment was a canon event

Me watching spideverse in theaters was a canon event

“What’s with the new suit you bleeding from your armpits?”

@@shagarumedici like peter saying that he’ll make him a new one, basically indirectly saying he doesn’t like it. Good thing is I can see this happening in the next movie due to how scarred up his suit in across got

Idk it lowkey felt to me a little insecure to be honest.

maybe he's gonna get his classical suit the next movie but this time it won't be just spray paint.

I hope he has a web pattern on his mask in the next movie. His mask looks weird without it.

Not to mention, Peter B saw Miguel's daughter in that universe to disappear before his very eyes and other Spiderpeople had been with Miguel trying to save the universe. It suddenly makes sense why almost all the Spider Society would side with Miguel because they have seen it before, are seeing it somewhat with Pavitir's dimension and in the risk of seeing it in Miles.

I don't even know what the right thing is anymore.

Nope, Miguel failed too. Also Miguel didnt cause his family tragedy on his original universe. He did on the second universe which is why he never tried again. Kinpin would have keep ruining families to infinity.

tf you mean succeeded he literally destroyed the universe he wanted 😭

@@oldenough5424 True, he did. It's also interesting to see what would have happened to Kingpin if he got his way.

His mother is terrible too. And until the recon, they both had family members who were villains.

Both of those themes are a bop 🔥

that would be awesome.

Oh my god, YES!

YES YES YES DANIEL PEMBERTON BETTER MAKE IT HAPPEN

😂 that would explain a lot lol

And his Mexican side is in denial of this-

I think that all it would take for him to change his mind in the next movie is for Miles or someone else to provide a logical counterargument, since emotional arguments just don't work on him. Saying "but it's the wrong thing to do" fails since Miguel already understands that but puts it at a lesser priority to his motive of saving the crowd, however something like "what if canon events only break when a Spiderman from a different universe interferes, I can stop the event and nothing bad would happen" would work since it lines up with Miguel's existing understanding of canon events, just as a different hypothesis about what the causes of breaks really is.

Miguel isn't trying to say "let you dad die", he's saying "it's either 1 or everyone", like do you people understand every single person also has family and that saving his dad would be pointless as by what Miguel's logic stands for his dad also would die in the process?

@@tau-5794 the thing is, there is no argument to be made, Miguel and many more saw it first hand. He is the one that caused it in the first place, Earth-42 literally collapsed because it doesn't have a Spider-Man, and it wasn't even just him who saw it so it's not just him that knows what would happen.

​@jellymatsuryuka685 Miguel calls miles an anomaly when Miguel is one to as he broke the Canon first plus miles didn't ask to be bitten by that spider it just happened

@@No1shigeokageyamafan Miguel broke a canon, Miles wasn't even supposed to exist as Spider-Man, there's a very big difference.

You are absolutely right, it depend on what kind of story is being told

I think there was a little more to that sentence that you forgot to quote 😂😂

I honestly want to give him a hug so badly😢

Me too

frfr

The people who made the 💉💉💉 are said to be genius’s too…science ain’t everything

I think the reason this happens so often is that, as a character, Thanos is someone underwritten. He talks a lot, but we never get a full glimpse of who he is underneath all his rhetoric.

​@@rottensquidDidn't he torture his own daughter? Pretty sure we know under all that rhetoric he is a bad person. This is the same person who in the comics did all that nonsense because he was simping for Death after all 😂

@@frizen9328 I mean, yeah, actions speak louder than rhetoric. I feel like the bit in Infinity War where he sacrificed Gamora and it actually worked kinda muddied the issue. The whole premise that the test proved his love for her ended up working against the film as a whole, and left a real bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. I think the intention was to add complexity to the character, but instead, it just made the character, and the rules of the universe, more opaque. One gets the impression that no one involved with writing that scene has ever endured real abuse from their father, or bothered to consult anyone who had. It was taking a serious subject, and treating it shallowly. That's the point where I realized they didn't actually have a real character, just a bunch of vague motivations stuck on a name, that they thought would add up on their own. Thanos was a failed character, to my mind.

@@frizen9328 we see Batman torturing people even harder than that. Even on the kid series from the 90s on one of the first episodes Batman kept throwing people out of buildings for information.

🥺

I feel you. I had to send an email this morning.

So that's why he's got shoulder pads that big.

Even though he is broken he is very immature he could barely articulate his words or emotions yo the situation with Miles in a calm manner so he could understand he is the reason why the multiverse is broken but to lash out his anger he self Projects his issues onto miles

@@No1shigeokageyamafan so you mean you wouldn't lose your mind if you knew you're literally the only one competent enough to stop a guy who wants to end existence itself because of a selfish decision? You wouldn't lose your mind over literally seeing the entire multiverse start to collapse because a guy didn't want to sacrifice one person just so literally everybody else could live?

True, I kinda regret that example looking back at it 😅

@@ghosttoast824 No, you had sound logic. If it wasn't for the whole genocide thing, he'd be considered an antagonist only. Cause let's face it. his motivations were noble. He's just trying to keep the universe from dying. It was his actions after he got all the stones is what cemented him as a villain as he could have just fixed the resource problem without harming the population.

@@kratkartan1486 tecnically he was just trying to delay the inevitable, if he wiped out half of the universe eventually the population would double again trought its natural growth

he literally stopped everyone from dying because the planet wouldn't have enough people for a Celestial to be born

@@jellymatsuryuka6853 dpes he know about the celestial in the first place tho?, and even tho he might have done so his intention was still kill half the universe and later in endgame with the knowledge he gets from the future he plans on erasing the whole universe and start a new

Kind of, like an antagonist can be the good guy if the movie is focusing on the villain as the protagonist. It just depends who the main character is and who is against them

That’s exactly what I thought after seeing the movie a second time! I’m interested in writing, and after seeing Miguel as a villain, it made me want to rethink some of my villains in a story I’ve been working on

​@@ghosttoast824Good example is Joe Goldberg from Netflix's "You", Joe is absolutely the bad guy but because the story is told from his perspective we see him as the hero and the one we want to root for even though we shouldn't, even his actor and some of the shows cast was a little disturbed at how many people loved Joe considering who he is and what he has done.

The antagonist in storytelling is anyone who directly opposes the protagonist's stance. They can be good, neutral or evil. In Joker, the police officers that want to question Arthur are antagonists. Murray is also an antagonist. But Arthur is the villain and the protagonist. Spot in this film isn't an antagonist, he's just a petty villain. He doesn't directly oppose Miles, he's just doing his own thing for his own reasons. Miguel, unlike Spot, directly opposes Miles' arc and his stance. He's not a villain, but because he tries to stop Miles from completing his arc (writing his own story), Miguel becomes the antagonist.

Case and point, the anime, Overlord. the villain in that IS the protagonist.

Lol 😂

You're damn right, he's the best man, I'm delighted with him

From my point of view, Miles is the villain.

@@dreamwalker2865 I am on Miguel's side

Tell me what is your reason for joining Miguel side?

@@dreamwalker2865 because it is not assured that miles can save his dad and if he does then wouldn't a black hole or what ever it was open in his world

I agree, like we just supposed to sacrifice billions of people just so only Miles father can live. You realize how insane that sounds right, it's sounds a lot like Supreme Strange all over again, I side by Miguel side to protect everything he is fighting for, and to protect everyone and everything Miles has created in his universe. When the stakes are this high, we have to do what is right, whatever it takes.

Very true, I was laying out the structure of a typical antagonist like Miguel, who was not necessarily evil, but not good either. I do believe that in the analysis I say “can be morally grey” for that very reason, because it’s not always the case, but just often is the case. Thank you for your comment tho, I agree that an antagonist is just whatever force is going against the protagonist, and the type of story that is being told will determine what morality the antagonist has.

I firmly believe Miguel is morally grey. No real good characters will beat the shit out of a kid

@@imperatricedelaconstellati8523 I agree that Miguel is morally grey, even more than the Miles stuff I think there's more to his backstory that he might be hiding from us which could make him even more questionable, what I was referring to was just the definition of an antagonist in general not specifically Miguel.

Yeah, he kinda made it personal, didn't he?

Thank you for the advice, I will definitely take it into consideration when making my next video!

No, he doesnt believe that. He believes that disrupting canon events will collapse entire universes and possibly the entire multiverse putting infinite lives at risk.

😂😂

It's not the comic version...None of them are. The comics are shown in the canon events scene alongside the live action and animated material. It's literally in the canon that the comic versions are separate realities. This isn't O'Hara of 928 but O'Hara of 928-B. True for Peter, Gwen and Miles. They've all done things their comic counterparts would never do...Which is intentional. But they have enough similarities to respect what came before to pay homage to their roots. Miguel is slightly more of a departure but it's clear this is meant to be a Darker/Evil/Broken/Anti-Hero whichever way you see variant of him. He's meant to be the antagonist he's meant to have accidentally done something horrific he's meant to represent all of the reductive and obsessive sides of Spider-Man. But he's still more accurate than Noir and Ben Reilly who only look comic accurate but their personalities are completely off. As they're only comedic played for laughs.

I don't think that Miles has some special anomalous canon-breaking status, it's just that Miguel's understanding of what causes canon breaks is flawed. Rather than changing "important events" being the cause, it might instead just be Interference from an outside Spiderman.

@@Web_Of_Venom That's what I was saying

Thanos isn’t a villain. His murders and genocides weren’t done because it was for laughs, but because he legitimately felt that it was necessary. And let’s be honest; genocide is only “wrong” because your morals and values perceives it to be. Someone who doesn’t share your moral values wouldn’t come to that same conclusion, and in this case Thanos certainly doesn’t share that.

Thank you, glad you enjoyed the review, and yeah, Miguel and Hobie are so cool

@@ghosttoast824 yes they both are cool keep these videos coming

Agreed

@@ghosttoast824 indeed heck fun fact actually spider-man 2099 i actually knew about him thanks to spider-man ps1 game and i always thought his suit looked really awesome even as a kid. :)

Very true, depends on what kind of story is being told

Lelouch is not a villain

Ohh wait-that’s so true!

Walter Hartwell White from the hit TV show Breaking Bad.

Glad you enjoyed the video

I can't look at the word chicanery without thinking of Better Call Saul

@@theironrubberduckI am not crazy! I knew it was a canon event. One captain death. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never!? I just - I just couldn't prove it. He, he changed the canon, he got that idiot pig to help him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That collider! Are you telling me a multiversal collapse just happens to open like that? No! He blew it up! Miles! He created a world with no Spider-Man! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own universe! What was I thinking? He'll never change. He'll never change! Ever since he became Spider-Man, always the same! Couldn't stay in his own dimension! But not our Miles! Couldn't be precious Miles! Dooming them blind! And he gets to be a Spider-Man!? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance! And you - you have to stop him! You-

bro Earth-42 literally collapsed in quality in comparison to other universes because Miles 42 didn't get bitten by the spider and you say it's not really that bad?

@@jellymatsuryuka6853 That wasn't really what I was going for with that, my bad. What I meant is like, some cannon divergence might be allowed while others simply can't. That's what I think they might go for in the future anyway, but yeah Earth-42 isn't doing so hot.

@@gamesmasher7120 the thing is, none of them are allowed but as Miguel stated some are so critical that they can end the entire multiverse

Yeah, I know I messed up on that one, thanks for pointing it out tho 😓😂

The difference between otters and Nebula is that otters do some extremely fucked up shit. Like raping baby seals to death.

I love this keen observation

Thank you

Yeah, I def could’ve used a better example than that lol 😓

Yeah, I am well aware he calls for back up, that’s why I didn’t say “he beats the vulture” or “defeats him”, but instead just say that “he holds his own”, implying that he put up a good fight, but didn’t necessarily win. There’s a difference between being competent in a fight and actually winning it, I was just simply saying he did well in the fight despite losing. I know Miguel losing an early fight is contradictory towards my point of him being built up as a significant threat, but I have a sly suspicion that the main reason the writers chose to have him lose to the Vulture is to have an easily convenient way to introduce Jessica Drew. I could be wrong, but that’s what it appeared like to me. Thank you for bringing up that point tho, I was wondering if anyone would try to ask me about that, so good job 👍

Miguel on the other hand is right to have problems with Miles yes it's not Miles' fault that he was bitten but the fact remains that in any case due to his earth 42 does not have a Spider-Man to defend it, each universe to maintain a balance in the spiderverse must having his own Spider-Man it doesn't matter if the spider brought him the spot on earth 1610 the balance was broken and earth 42 paid the consequences earth 1610 is still stable only because at that moment reality corrected itself with the death of Peter 1610 and Miles taking over as the new Spider-Man but canon has already been broken once on earth 1610 there is no knowing how big the catastrophe would be if another canon event were broken on earth 1610 and this Miguel know it, if he wanted Miles not to be Spider-Man he would have come to him in person he didn't just because he saw that earth 1610 had still remained stable despite the terrible consequences for earth 42 but now... now Miguel he had to take matters into his own hands because earth 1610 already came close to catastrophe in the first movie and he can't let it happen again