Why Modeling is Better than Profiling or Capturing [where Kemper, ToneX and Neural DSP fall behind]

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The world of digital guitar right now seems to be trending in the direction of "Profiling" or "Capturing" - but there are at the moment 2 inherent problems with this stuff. Here's a ramble about that, and why I almost always favour building with models vs sticking a mic on an amp....
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Опубликовано:

24 мар 2023

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Комментарии : 251

@robwebb9413 Год назад

My experience has been way different. My two favorite amps are the Fender 65 Deluxe and the Fender 68 Princeton custom and know them well. When I tried modeling or even other people’s settings it never sounded or felt like the amps. I have a Tonex pedal and tried Tone Junkie’s 65 Fender Deluxe clean…it sounded and felt like my amp. I put a Dod 250 preamp in front of it and it responded and broke up just like my amp. Same thing with a Boss SD 1 pedal. Ran delay and reverb after the Tonex and it was so inspiring to play. I guess my point is I have not run into that problem of a profile being just a static image of just one setting. I found that it has captured enough of the amps character to begin to respond in the way that the actual amp responds. Now, I will say that I do not use effects like fuzz, or hardly any modulation, and maybe I would begin to see things fall apart by adding those things. I am super pleased to find a way to get my same tone either in practice, playing or recording. At least with the Tonex I found it to be very accommodating to EQ changes that I’ve had to make on the fly in different situations. It’s not as fragile as I was led to believe it would be. I will say WHO captures the amp and cab makes a HUGE difference. It’s really all based on your own situation and what is most important to you and stick with that whether it is modeling or profiling. There’s room in the universe for both.

@gladejustglade Год назад

I feel like the TONEX turns the corner. I’ve never so effortlessly gotten great tone.

@timothyjohnson9739 Год назад

You're the guy that taught me how to actually USE my Helix, and not just rely on somebody's download to try to get what I'm hearing. There is NOTHING that replaces understanding what the components in your chain are capable of doing, and how to dial the results per each that you're looking for. That, combined with modelings ability to present a continuous curve of responses depending on settings is indeed the exact reason to be wary of static capture snapshots. Hats off, John. I'm looking forward to see what Line 6 does at NAMM this year!

@davidjoel111 Год назад

I played a kemper for a few years and it bothered me the lack of control, so I bought an hx stomp, then I spent more time tweaking than playing. I prefer profiles or captures because I play more than what I do searching for tone, with the kemper and now with the tone x it takes me a few hours to find a tone I like but I stick to it and make more music vs line 6 where I can tweak endesly and never be happy with my tone, now it can be because I dont know how to dial the tone in an amp, but I feel captures and profiles work better for me.

@Arthur_My_Dear Год назад

I think it’s time for another RU-vid celeb boxing match. John Cordy vs Tone Junkie

@pfmusic1636 Год назад

Good modeling is > bad captures. But I enjoy a great capture more than good modeling. Personal taste is key here and trial and error. If you have good gear and know how to capture it, I think this will be more satisfying moving forward for me. I will say for every one good amp I’ve tried on ToneNet, I’ve played 10 bad ones.

@daveklein6585 Год назад

This is why Fractal still has the edge in my opinion.. It covers the widest range of adjustability for any particular amp giving the user access to component level modeling.. ex.. tube types, cathode resistance, power supply voltage, speaker impedance, ect.. the list is long.. but it definitely provides the most comprehensive shaping of any particular amp's tone.

@Guitaural. Год назад

On capturing, I'd say for most amps you'd do a clean, edge-of-breakup, then a high gain version and you're pretty well covered. ToneMonkey has mentioned that adjusting or tweaking a profile/capture is pretty much the same thing as an engineer tweaking eq in the studio, and to essentially have zero fear about doing it. Engineers don't ask you to add treble on your amp, they EQ it on the board...seems logical. Thanks for all you do John.

@DoctorMcFarlandStudios Год назад

I really can't stand scrolling thorugh captures. The FM9 is my end all be all.

@BLINKxSCOT Год назад

As a guitarist who frequently loses inpiration, you are one of the few channels to make me pick up and keep playing. The sounds you get from the helix are better than anyone. They should be paying you if they arent already.

@martyshwaartz971 Год назад

My thoughts exactly on why I prefer modelling to profiling! Although I'm sure the tech will get to the point that it will model the how the knobs work as well, and then you can actually tweak it.

@TechyTimM Год назад

This discussion reminds me of when keyboards first started using sampled instruments. They were snapshots of a moment in time and struggled to convey complex changes over time. If that moment in time is what you need, it's great, though finding that exact moment out of all the others may be an exhaustive search. I like that modeling is dynamic. Keep the info coming!

@stratless Год назад

Love the backing Track here! Awesome groove and killer playing as always.

@Impractical_Engineer Год назад

Why not have both is the answer. Think how we use a real amp in the room, 80% of the time is set it and forget it. Kinda like a capture. You can also find a similar model setting. The other 20% usually can find another capture or add EQ or adjust the model. I think we get caught up on if it sounds authentic vs does it sound really good. Lately I strive for does it sound really good.

@ROKZLEON Год назад

Solid insights John. I appreciate your viewpoint on the profiler vs modeler debate. ✌🏻

@JosephFarr Год назад

Modeling is a whole lot more intensive and accurate, for sure. Captures essentially just take snapshots of signal path characteristics and do a really great job of reproducing that particular snapshot in perpetuity. Modeling factors in every single aspect of the hardware. However, there are instances where captures can outperform modeling in terms of processing/latency, giving it a slight edge in the live performance realm. Most amp modeling plug-ins have CPU settings for a reason, and the tonal/latency differences between lo/hi is always noticeable. Pedals like TONEX will never replace amps entirely, but this is a live performance beast that doesn't require a laptop to access virtually any amp we want, and be able to send cab emulated outs to a soundboard while sending direct amp (no cab) signals to a live/monitoring rig on stage. If even just to send an isolated/gorgeous processed signal to the soundboard with no more than 3ms latency. priceless. Also. A lot of players want a great amp sim solution, but would rather not rely on a computer, or buy some 1500-4000 piece of hardware, or fiddle with all the wienerfluff just to get a nice plexi tone running through greenbacks. TONEX = Winner

@97guitarzan Год назад

You made some very good points in this video. I have been using the Tonex VST in my DAW for a while now and have deduced that I still prefer using S -Gear...it just works. I have yet to use any modeler when playing out...only tube amps and a pedalboard.

@fastboy_guitars Год назад

Yep. I reckon we’re going to see a real intense trend of every company doing captures as the techniques are well understood and cheap, and then we’ll all switch back to models.

@DrProgNerd Год назад

After decades of ever-changing amp/pedal/cab configurations, modeling has been a godsend. Your sound can be found in virtually any modeler/plugin if you know some basic signal path routing, eq'ing techniques. I sold my last amp about a year ago - and within the last year, I sold my FM9, Kemper, Stomp, and QC. I live completely in plugins now and have no regrets. The captures I got in Kemper and QC were just okay. It could be that I just wasn't good at it. Don't know. What I do know is that my workflow is substantially improved working 'in the box' with plugins.