Why no one wants to paint carbon fiber 

My inner child says if you add racing stripes and flame decals, it will absolutely go at least 1% faster

Place the fuselage in a rotisserie, which will allow you to rotate the fuselage 360 degrees. Then you wouldn't be cramping your body when trying to paint various areas of the fuselage. A rotisserie is also used to hold a welded tube fuselage to be able to apply the fabric covering. Keep up the good work ! 🙂

Great to see you are this far with the DarkAero. I think it is probably the best thought out light plane in history.

I remember as child (years 1970's) I was "allowed" to polish with waterproof sandpaper repair spots on gliders. They were painted with a coat of what they called "Schwabbellack" and polished afterwards . A lot of work but with perfect smooth result. The new ones produced by for example Schleicher, Glasflugel and others were 'prepainted' in the molds. the molds were first sprayed with this Schwabbellack befor the glass or carbon fibers were placed. Nice to see the plane painted white for the reasons you mentioned (and to prevent the sun warming up the epoxy) and not showing the carbon despite how nice carbon may look.

I am a 45 year ( Just retired ) PPG Automotive Paint Refinish Technician and you will have better results if you go with 2 quart pressure Pot paint spray system, many manufacturers still make them , Anest Iwatta, DeVilbiss, Binks. Its a very easy to use spray gun , as all you have is the gun and a couple hoses in your hand , and with a pressure filled system the paint sprays in any position with no spitting or sputtering. But the real bitch of this system is making sure you take off the FLUID HOSE and CLEAN IT VERY VERY well, this is the BANE of a pressure pot system, but works so well on big spray projects, I used mine when I had to spray complete Box Vans and Suburbans and the like . Try this and I think you will like the ease of spraying. Cool ass airplane too by the way 👍😎

I have been building composites and the molds for them for over ten years, I worked building mid-size drones for six years. If you haven't already, you may want to consider; First, waxing/seasoning your mold surface I can't remember if we could use the TR 104 for painted surfaces, or the Partial Paste #2 (we waxed/seasoned new molds five times, less is needed after you start pulling parts, and you will want to play around with different types of wax, my preferred was TR 104, but I did both painted and unpainted parts, as well as different mold and mandrel materials and cloths carbon, kevlar, and glass). After you pull a part from the mold, wash both the mold and the part with dawn soap and warm water. Second, DO NOT USE the PVA. The painter and I spent a couple of days playing with different combinations of wax as well as PVA/no PVA. You do not gain anything from it beyond potential runs on the mold surface, which result in low spots in the paint which need filling, and consequently adding an uneven distribution of mass via filler to the surface as well as changing it's shape. Yes, these small variations can be taken care of with trim, but that is additional drag. Third, just paint the waxed/waxed and PVA'd mold surface. You will want to play around with WHEN you start your layup on the painted mold surface to get a feel for your paint/resin finish and bond. When you paint the mold surface, you end up with no pinholes. When you paint the wings/fuselage/cowls/spinner cones et cetera, you DO end up with pinholes. Fourth, when you paint the mold surfaces, you skip then entire priming process, and that saves a significant amount of mass. Fifth, you may consider a temperature stepping post-cure, to toughen your parts. You will need a large oven with a good blower to circulate that air for your wings and fuselage, but easy enough to make with cinderblocks. I am sure you are aware that it is pretty easy to damage sharp/thin areas, and carbon is soft. That post cure helps a lot, and makes working/repairing go a little better. Talk with your resin supplier about this. Sixth, you may want to think VERY HARD about a surface layer of 1oz glass or to provide a tougher surface than carbon. It also eliminates the issue of the cloth pattern printing through the paint.

Prime, no problem splitting operations. However, when painting you will need to get it all in one go or you will have some dry spot issues and will need to prep the airplane a certain way for round 2. I’m sure you know this already just wanted to make sure! Thing looks sick all white!!!

I'm from the Auto Body Painting world. Some advice would be to build a jig that has a base on the ground with wheels and then connects to the fuselage to it on the engine mount points and the tail section (viticle stabilizer area) The mounts must be on a bearing system at both ends to allow you to roll it when painting.

A rotisserie would help a lot with both fuselage and wing.

I remember listening to a radio interview with a late war spitfire pilot - flying a griffon engine with clipped wings. He was obsessive about aerodynamic cleanness. He filed down the rivets on his plane and filled in all of the rivets an smoothed over joints. After every flight he would clean and polish his plane etc. The result was that his plane was something like 40 mph faster than other Spitfires. (I'm stretching my recollection here, I reckon this interview was in the 90s) He shot down a few Me-262s. They just didn't appreciate that he was almost as fast as them. Anyway, moral of the story... I can totally see where you are coming from. Obsessing about aerodynamic cleanness can have huge payoffs.

You succeeded in removing a great deal of the Suck in painting composites in your crafting the high-precision molds. A front line finish is still going to swallow many hours, but Dark Aero’s construction methodology will save many more hours. It’s a big Win, overall.

5:55 The fuselage contour looks excellent!

An option for a UV resistant clear finish would probably sell well. Carbon fiber is pretty cool.

B17s were painted [70ishlbs extra weight] they did a paint, unpaint test to evaluate the weight saving and found that fuel consumption went up by 3% on unpainted airframes, the extra fuel to recoup the 100mile range loss was heavier than the paint.

And of course, the gel coat colour chosen, "white", helps to reflect the sunlight which would also contribute to keep the temperature lower inside the airplane, while on ground! The resin used on the skins, could also "suffer", just in case the gel coat was pigmented black, for instance... It could "melt" a little bit!

Did you consider wrapping it? It has been done for fixed wing UAVs to give a smoother surface than paint at a lower weight.

Too late now but there’s a product called xcr coating which has uv protection and a shiny clear surface it also self levels it’s used a lot in carbon manufacturing I run my own carbon company so thats how I know. If you ever make spare parts or new/updated parts maybe consider it as it would look awesome in visual carbon.

Paint will only make it go faster if you paint it RED!

The rotisserie idea is the best, just some other thoughts on how to paint. Look for an old Model 7 Binks (1-quart-size) suction spray gun, or to make your life much easier, go with a pressure "Spray-Pot," setup. FYI Spray-pots come in all different sizes, from 1 quart size, up to 20 gallon spray-pots, with air operated constant mixing / stirrer (BIG $$$$.) Another option is to go "Airless - Spray setup," that's what we used when painting 747 Wings, and be able to keep the entire wing paint wet during cross lap's. As someone who has 25 yr's autobody experience, 5 year's as a painter 747's & 767's Boeing Aircraft, Everett, Washington, U.S.A., the word Epoxy and flexible is a non starter. Flexible = Polyurethane, Epoxy = rigid / kitchen stove top finish, read it and weep.

Nice job guys! I'm sure you know already, and just didn't mention it. One of the main reasons plastic airplanes are painted white or a light color is because of heat. The difference between black and white in the sun is huge. Heat (oil and UV light) is an enemy of anything composite. ...composites don't work harden like aluminum, they just snap. Incidentally, you should put a coat of paint on the inside of the engine cowling for oil protection. It's not structural but it will prevent delamination and make it easier for repairs later. Cheers!

I love following this project, the dark aero is looking more like a light arrow now! Hoping to see a cool paint scheme, keep up the good work!

It’s probably already been asked, but isn’t their a UV blocking clear coat that you could use? I think I’m just too in love with the carbon fiber look

Ten years ago, painting was completed on the first Boeing 787 in Everett, WA and it came out looking really slick. Little did Boeing or Airbus know at the time that the paint would at some point peel off from composite surfaces. Emirates got really mad at Airbus for their peeling paint and Boeing has also had its issues with peeling paint. 🤠

It's great to see you are making progress! I come from gliding, so painting composite aircraft makes total sense. We use a PU or in older gliders UP gelcoat, and we use special templates for sanding to make sure that the profiles are shaped right after painting!

Even after the first coat of paint the aircraft looks CG as the lines and contours are so perfect! Nice work!

The monologue at the beginning answered all the questions that I had after immediately considering the problem - well done

for your paint problems, the 3m pps solution is one of the most suitable. the flexible vacuum pocket system allows the spray gun to be painted in any position. I personally painted a p300 pioneer, concerning the lower part of the fuselage the most practical remains" the mechanic's horizontal wheeled trolley". nice project, do you have any particular feedback on the inflatable paint booth?

I would love to build a scaled R/C version of this.

I know that in boats, they sometimes paint the mold before adding the laminates. Not sure if that process could work for you. It might slow down production too much.

Fantastic surface finish @5:53. If that is just two coats, your molding was really great.

There are both matte and gloss UV clear coats you could use. They can be sanded/faired and resprayed at the range of surface variation you are describing. I would use a filler made black with carbon dust and tape the joints off for even appearance.

For production I think a rotating jig that works like a rotisserie would work really well. Should just require two metal rod to serve as axles with a flange welded to one end that allows one axle to be bolted into the bolt holes for the rudder in the back and the other to the engine mount in the front with the axles in line with each other. A-frame stands for the front and rear with two bearing each at the apex of the "A" supports the axles. Oh, and by using two bearings on each stand, there are no bending forces in the flange and into the fuselage like there would be if a single bearing was used. To make it easier to get the axles go through the bearings as the A-frames are moved over the axle, you could make the axle OD smaller than the bearing ID. Then thread the axle and put one threaded collar with a tapered OD on the axle first with the taper facing towards the bearings. Slide the A-frame and the bearings over the axle to the desired position along the axle. Then thread a second tapered collar onto the axle and screw both collars so the tapered end goes into a bearing until both are snug to take out the play between the axle and the bearings. This also serves to lock the A-frame to the axle. Once both A-frames are in position, two "ladders" trusses made with square tubing and cross pieces at 45 degree angles could be used to lock base of the two A-frames together. I suggest this ladder structure so that an racking forces as the fuselage is rolled into the painting bay go through the ladders rather than the axles and the fuselage. Once in the paint bay, thread a crank handle onto the end of each axle and you can easily use it to rotate the fuselage to allow you to paint every section from the optimum angle. No more having to stand on a box and stretch to spray the top or squat and try to spray upward to get the bottom, while still allowing the entire fuselage to be painted at one time. Sorry if this is over the top, but I am a design engineer and I can't help but see design solution leap unbidden into my mind's eye.😊

happy I found this, I love experimental Aircraft, inspiring me to build my own from carbon fiber.

Kinda , no, absolutely miss, the dark color. Well done gentlemen

For painting any tubular section of the fuselage you really need to have 2x pyramidal triangular frames with pillow block bearings at the top so that you can attach an axle at either end of the fuselage & you'll be able to spin the plane 3t60 degrees for painting optimally in the best light as well. You could attach a temporary jig that attaches to the vertical stabilizer that has a horizontal pipe that fits into a pillow block bearing at one end & put an engine mounted jig that also mounts to a horizontal pipe that goes into the pillow block bearing.

OOooo, vacuum infusion. I did some composite fab work a couple years ago on some fancy new Q/V band satellite antennae, and we used vacuum infusion for all our parts. I wasn't involved in quality control for the actual reflector surface, but I believe our tolerances were something like 50 microns, and as far as I know rework was basically never needed outside of issues caused by leaky bags, wrinkled layups, and thermal runaway. Now that i've done it that way, I don't think I'd ever use wet lay ups for anything but repairs and the quick-and-dirtiest of projects.

One additional reason for painting the aircraft; solar heating of composite materials can weaken them. Gliders are usually white. to avoid warming them to floppiness What is the weight of the paint and fillers likely to be?

Science and perseverance. All the best gentlemen.

all about getting it done... if you can somehow get an acceptable product spraying just once, do it. it saves a lot of time and money, but takes more care and prep on the surface parallel to the ground.

The 3M PPS H/O system, provides a pressurised paint supply and is excellent for painting out of position.

I cannot wait to someday order one of these kits. I've got a WHOLE LOT of saving up to do before then, though

It is amazing how hot a carbon skin gets in the sun. I had a carbon surfski (racing kayak) with a clear coated hull. Looked cool but got crazy hot in the sun.

It's going to take some getting used to the new look. Maybe Light Aero or White Aero now instead of Dark Aero? Anyway, I love following this project. Happy Thanksgiving!

Will you weigh the parts before and after the paint is applied to determine how much weight is being added by the painting process?

I love seeing this thing progress, excellent work, have you guys ever tried slicksand? Basically a polyester high build primer, it's been one of the best things I've found to get my composite stuff optically flat for paint, you can build it up so easily and quickly that I never even bother with filler nowadays, not on composite stuff anyway which is already so close to right.

I think you need a chassis rotisserie. They are made for cars (to access everything during restorations) but one could be adapted to a plane fuselage (without wings).

In the aerospace world (using pre-preg carbon fiber), the first ply against the mold surface is always a very thin sheet of resin rich pre-preg to give you a good surface without needing any filler. The aircraft in this video, even though you didn't use any filler, required a lot of extra coats of primer to get a good finish. This probably added 20-25 pounds to the weight of the aircraft.

0:50 same thing with F1 cars,they are mostly carbon fiber chassis and the paint protects and removes some of the drag of the car (also sponsors of course), some teams like mclaren have removed paint from parts of the cars like bottom of surfaces and etc.

You guys have made such a fantastically light fuselage, it may not take much to create a jig that rotates the body along the longitudinal axis while in the paint booth. It may pay itself off in reduced spraying/sanding time.

I noticed while getting back in to doing some body work that there's new primer fillers on the market that seem to be the new "thing". Basically it's a lightweight primer with more filling. Not sure if there's such a product that's good for aviation, but it looks like you're not using that zinc phosphate primer, so maybe automotive primer is OK? If so, I could see it being very useful in QC during production for the first coat.

Love the thought and engineering behind everything. But you can tell you haven’t had much experience painting before. For painting upside down try using a paint cup system, it’s what the auto fab world uses to paint interiors and role cages which allows you to paint at almost any angle

Hi guys thanks for your effort in revealing so much of your build. Thought...to paint fuselage a 'skewer' rig and rotate as you paint. Not a lot more work considering what you have already done.

If you are going for laminar flow, I’m guessing you will be avoiding any spanwise stripes or color changes? Love the inflatable paint booth!

DarkAero just turned into LightAero! Marketing will be pissed! ;)

Need to change the name to White Aero now! Looks awesome.

Does this mean you'll be changing the name to light aero? :P

Imperfections is a better word. Good job guys.

My first thought was the need to lower drag but covering that uv sensitive epoxy definitely requires a coat. Don't want your plane falling apart in the hanger or even the air.

There's also a heat element. Black gets quite hot compared to a white color.

Rotating the air cap will change the angle of the spray pattern to help get into tighter areas.

i have heard of companies spraying their molds with primer, prior to layup. then there is so much less paint prep work, because the primer takes to the mold, then the composite to that. i would be the first to paint a carbon fiber airplane, for the reasons mentioned, and the reflectivity to minimize the solar heat.

Great to see the progress!

Nice plane! It is so lean looking that I thought it was an RC model when I first saw pictures.

As somebody who uses epoxy to build boats I can agree that Epoxy is not very UV safe. It degrades over time, getting more brittle as it goes. It also reacts poorly to high heat, the black carbon finish could weaken the epoxy through overheating. Two things you do not want when flying.

You should be able to build a jig that lets you put the plane on a rotisserie style mount.

In the past I've heard one of the main reasons airplanes have been tradionally painted white is so that stress cracks can be more easily seen. Are cracks not an issue with carbon fibre?

Wow. She just keeps getting better.

Added my own background music, really helped

Looking good guys!

Can’t wait to see this wonderful aircraft takeoff into the blue skies.

What we really want to know is if we will flight before christmas. Fingers crossed!

Use the Dekupps system that allows the paint gun to be inverted…expensive but worth it.

Your difficulty in spraying due to feed issues using gravity feed spray guns would be eliminated by using a pressure pot feed instead. It allows all angle spraying with no feed difficulty.

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Looking very good! Waiting for flight testing! Are you going to use a pro test pilot???

Amazing work can’t wait to see this airborne! Might one one someday

Another benefit of painting it white is strength. Epoxy weakens with heat and the black carbon fiber would heat up BIG time in direct sunlight. White would drop the surface temperature by over 45 degrees Fahrenheit .

Looking great. 👍 Can't wait to see her cutting through the sky.

You should have just applied several water based clear coat paint like on a car & put a quality 3M clear wrap that is UV proof as you can get vinyl wraps for cars, trucks, boats, venues, pretty much everything. If you can offer that finish to some customers I bet you will sell more of that style as more ppl would prefer the carbon look type of finish.

Need a roller stand like cars use to paint the whole thing at once. Even if you only tilted it 45 degrees I think you would have enough access. Looking good guys :)

Perhaps use a jig that allows you to rotate fuselage during painting.

In this UK city theres no shortage of bodyshops are willing to paint carbon fiber panels

Why not use gelcoat when you mold the wing skins, as they do on boats? If the gelcoat is heavier than paint, WHY is it heavier? Is there some reason the gelcoat has to be thicker than paint and primer would be?

The lightaero is looking good!

My friend made a straw bale house, a building where walls are straw bales coated with a plaster concrete. For marketing to show the interior of walls were actually made of compressed straw he put a small window in the plaster of one wall in a high traffic area. Can you leave a small area unpainted or coated with clear UV coating to show your plane is made of CF? I know this is just window dressing so to speak but it could change perception of the vehicle even slightly.

very nice job ! would also look beautiful in a uv protectant clear as well!

She's a beauty! I I flew fixed-wing I'd be jonesing for one right now!!!

I used to paint airplanes, and from what I learned is that extra time away from all of those chemicals is needed.

What about galvanic issues with the conductivity of carbon fibre ? We saw recently the feud between Emirates and Airbus because of the paint cracking, owing to the electrostatic characteristics of the carbon fibres.

may want to look at a suspension cradle/crane for paint ... will allow painters complete under access and the ability to lower/raise the surface being worked on ... cradle may be set to rotate +-45

Now, just hear me out…now that you’ve got a good primer base…Pepto Bismol pink would be a unique and eye catching option.

Are you going to top coat it black ? Or is it the WhiteAero now ? :D

Hey those inflatable paint booths are a nightmare for a job if they deflate for some reason during the process, I’d tie it to the cieling somehow

The fusalage must be fairly light, under 300lbs? Insert male holding member into the front end attached to a rotational wheel. This rotissarie should solve all your spray angle propblems. Or you could hire Chip Foose as a consultant.

I have a question what about clear coating it? Couldn’t that’s leave the naked finish but keep the carbon epoxy protected?

use hand held card to block over spray at tail surfaces joint - also lower air pressure with narrower pattern this area can help -

Maybe a custom rotisserie would speed up and simplify the painting.

you could use a high end clear coat that could cut UV issues.

Very nice! It would be interesting if there was a way to lift the tail higher (perhaps putting a long lever on the engine mount, which also prevents overrotation). That would make it much easier to get to the underside.

Clear coat! UV protection without hiding the C weave. But yeah, can’t use Bondo.