@@andershammer9307 That was from Socrates the ancient Greek philosoher one of the greatests on the planet so far , actually it's like < One thing i know that i know nothing >
I'm anxiously awaiting the day you guys make your first reel to reel tape machine. In my opinion, that is the absolute pinnacle of analogue recording and playback, even surpassing direct to disc.
there's still a lot of hiss from tape, but if your can transfer it to 24bit digital, state of the art software can clean it up without any loss to the signal.
My 50 year old garrard 401 turntable with sme arm and audio technica atoc3 cartridge sounds absolutely amazing. The arm has fluid damping added to accommodate the moving coil cartridge compliance. This setup would give any current turntable a run for the money,, so new doesn't always mean better . Obviously this does not apply to electronics, class D being an example. I still regret selling my old Marantz 2100 tuner though. It looked great.
I bought 2 years ago a Marantz 2130 in top shape and had made a woodcase for it . Only changed the lightbulbs into leds . Looks great and plays great in my analog system.
I have a top of the line Dual 731Q turntable that I modified and put a moving coil cartridge in and so far it beats every high-end turntable that I borrowed and compared it to. It does the "LINN" thing better than an $8000 LINN LP12.
I am amazed! You keep saying you are an engineer, not much of a businessman. But the arguments you made about making a turntable or not, bristle with sound business logic. Every company should think "do we have something unique to offer" before charging to make a "me-too" product. So many ventures fail because they have nothing important to offer. So many companies bring a product into the market, sometimes rebadging something they can find - usually something boring - and later wonder why it didn't go well.
In my life I've had alot of record players. And I've even built my own.There are alot on the market and some look amazing. So if you ask me what's the best turntable in the world it's the one I made. Of course!. It's got an sme 3009 fixed head shell.direct drive matsuhito motor out of a adc 4000.Tiger grain solid wood base.i did all the power supply myself ,its over 30 years old now.I was 20 when I made it and it's still working just fine.
Paul, I may not agree with all that you say but I say you are one of the most likeable people I've been exposed to. Always a joy to tune in. I like the magazine also. Hey, I should order the book!
Some people have rediscovered the joy of wow and flutter, much noise, clicks from scratches, the time to handle the records, cleaning records and so on. It’s sort of like restoring old cars from decades ago type of hobby. For best audio, digital audio, when done well, easily beats vinyl. PS Audio should focus on the future. I’m still waiting for their next gen preamp with DAC, audiophile DSP for room corrections etc. and subwoofer outputs.
ThinkingBetter I am waiting for an affordable high end electronic crossover. Thought I would throw that in before the digital haters come at you with their pointed needles.
Kira Rittberg Yes, audiophile resolution DSP based configurable cross-over for subwoofer and perhaps even multi-way side speakers would be great. And PS Audio could sell a ton of mono-blocks for such setup.
Yeah the new stuff is clean, accurate, efficient and all but sometimes us old fogies like our stubborn love of nostalgic stuff. It can be just as enjoyable to go into the basement and fire up that old 70's receiver and put an album ( warps crackles and skips included) on your record changer and listen through your 12" 3 way floor standers. There is a certain "feel" to that experience that the new (and certainly terrific) audio can't seem to replicate. Love your new audio gear, but turntables for some can be the equivalent of driving a vintage car. Poor performance but great experience.
Your wasting you time trying to get the modern audiophile interested in the Music and not the equipment. I got my old L.P.'s from the 50's out this week and played them through my recently re-furbished Akai 1150 amp and floor speakers. They didn't all sound brilliant but the screams and whistles of the audience were great in a drum battle between Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich. Benny Goodman's Mission to Moscow and Flying Home sounded just as good yesterday as they sounded 65 years ago. Playing Gerry Mulligan or Stan Getz was another lovely walk down memory lane. Who needs to spend thousands of dollars to enjoy ones self. The L.P.'s were all bought new in the late 1950's. Where did these years disappear to?.
@@fredpond1087 PS Audio forum..You are probably right about the modern audiophile, but it is a shame that we lost the excitement of hearing something good on the radio and going to a record store to buy and bring home a new LP for your stack. I get it with the new stuff, but it seems most music today is obtained by a digital download from an app and then played through a phone.The concept of the LP is a unique experience. And my question to Paul was is it possible to recreate that experience with modern gear, and should a Vinyl disk spinning at 33 and a third be included?
Lp's are gaining in popularity again. I think that PS Audio would be more than capable of creating a turntable to incorporate into modern high end electronics that could accomplish giving the "feel" and "experience" of vinyl, while maximizing the potential ability of vinyl to be a source.
Hi again, what is seldom mentioned is the floppy things that are hanging off the side our head that in my case are made from flannel. Why would anyone older than 40 spend thousands of dollars on loudspeakers or amplifiers beats me. Then I am a Scotsman and I dinna want to waste ma money. The best quotes I have heard on RU-vid was from a couple of older jokers who agreed that the best audio product they have ever bought was a couple of good hearing aids. Washing your ears out once a year to get rid of the wax, fluff and debris makes more sense to me than paying big bucks on speakers or amplifiers. Even worse is spending hours washing your old L.P.'s is some cocktail or another just to get rid of a few pops. I just don't have the time for that bullshit and snake oil. Cheers, Fred in New Zealand.
Hi Paul I'm waiting for some company to build an true high value hi-fi equaliser controlled with a remote or by an app... Now that would truly be something interesting for people like me who don't like or want to do the endless tweaking and changing equipment or cable etc, etc.
Turntable, very mechanical engineering oriented and mechanical engineering skills needed, PS audio is electrical engineering based company. That is PS Audio's wheelhouse.
@M P Ahali, Crish zna da spremaju lansiranje sjaaajne linije zvučnika. Genocid nad inteligencijom, od pitanja, preko reklame do konstatacije nekog tamo o nečemu tamo neviđenom a sjajnom.
Paul, Many speakers manufacturers do not go into amplifier, streamer, cd player markets and vice versa. Speakers market is certainly the MOST Crowded Market for the audiophile. We have heard that you are developing some "Killer Speakers"and cannot wait to hear them. Hope they are at a affordable price range. May be around 2K for a pair of bookshelf.
NAD branched out to turntables by building them from an a la carte menu of Pro-Ject equipment. It was effectively their own design from Pro-Ject's tools because they didn't have the infrastructure to develop a TT from scratch. Maybe PS Audio could do something along those lines? The Audiophile Man has some reviews of them on YT and he talks about it a lot more eloquently than I can. I use NAD equipment for my amplifier and phono stage and I can't recommend them enough.
Dear Paul , for a change not Hi! I like your analogy with food to the topic. While you're very good with European cousins, you don't have to run Chinese food to be a world class restaurant. Just do whatever you're good at and enjoy in the process as you have always been. Wish you good health and God bless PSA.
Paul is being very pragmatic here. The 'budget' t/table market is saturated with many good quality _affordable_ decks and there's hardly room for one more. On the positive side, a PS Audio t/table could make the new buyer aware of the brand and, hopefully, 'open the door' for more PS Audio product sales. It is still a business risk though, especially under the current situation methinks.. ..and Paul, don't worry Sir about someone's hedger, it's all good and part of the sounds of the world around us. Your voice is coming Loud and Clear!
@Fat Rat Very true *Fat Rat* ! A visit to a HIFI store will verify that. A display line of a large number of decks in the $ 300 - $ 1400 range from many traditional makers. I think, Paul knows that, one more t/table in that line will only make the "slice" of the t/table market thinner.. I hope you keep safe my friend. :-)
The problem is that the current turntables have lower quality than the turntable from, say, 80s. Take for instance new Denon F300, and compare it with a used Denon DP-47F (Direct Drive, fully automatic) from 40 years ago! Generally speaking, not only the US, the German and British products but even the high-quality Japanese gears have been replace by Chinese-made cheap gears that might shine for few months before being broken no matter how much you paid for them.
There are high quality turntables today like in times past. Your example of the Denon models is apples and oranges. The dp47f went for around 550 or so in the 80's when it was sold. That's roughly mid 1300 range money wise today. The f300 sells for around 380 today so it's not a fair comparison. Check what 1300-1400 will get you today and you'll probably find equal quality.
Well, it depends on the table we are talking about. First of all, one can rarely find a good DD table for less than $4k these days, so that is the first hurdle. Stepping back from that, there are good belt tables out there for as little as around $700 that will keep you happy for years! If we are talking big box tables such as the newer Pioneers and such, then I have to agree with you, they are not anything like the tables of old. I happen to have and use a Denon DP-47f, bought it near NOS for south of $500. I mounted an Ortofon 2M Bronze and woohoo! (I do think though that the 2M Bronze almost pushes the envelope of the arm and the 2M Blue may be a better fit for that table in that particular range of cart). I also have a Pioneer PL-510A (circa 1972), also a DD table and built like a brick chicken house! Bomb-proof! Both table are deadly accurate in speed and stability. (yes, I have test gear and learned or I should say re-learned to set up my own tables, I come from the original vinyl era). While the 80's Denon and 70s Pioneer don't have VTA adjustment ability, it is not the most important aspect anyway (for VTA, as long as you can get it very close, your good. There are other things that need to be more precise), everything else can be adjusted. Sure one can't mount a different arm on vintage tables (well, it might be doable on something like the Pioneer, but not easy, but definitely not the Denon). Aside from that, my old tables are great. If anything does happen to them (it would have to be catastrophic), I would not be able to afford a DD table and have to go belt drive. On the positive side of that, there are good belt drives out there for well less then $4k. Part of the beauty of analog/vinyl is the slightest thing can change the sound, example: change the mat, change the cart, change the stylus, change the alignment theory, etc. You can make a $600 table sound like a $1200 table just by changing the cart one notch up, for example, going from a $50 cart to a $100 cart will dramatically change the sound. Then there is the phono preamp, if you don't have one, just getting one (even if it is say $400) can make a dramatic improvement.
Agreed. It seems everyone is obsessed with belt driven and ignore the amazing innovations in direct drive out even magnetic levitation. Speakers are the same way. The majority of speakers are boxes. Very here companies really innovate in other ways to reproduce music. I personally cannot understand why more people have not considered a planar speaker. I believe a good electrostatic blows away a box when it comes to the sound stage. Alas, the market does not always choose the best. And right now you can build a great sounding turntable and charge $3,000 and up and get away with it.
I love that the lawnmower could be heard in the beginning of this video. Very real, authentic connection with your audience. Thanks for sharing with us Paul.
Building a turntable is a mechanical engineering exercise. Building amplifiers and DACs is an electrical engineering exercise. For 45 years PS Audio has been almost exclusively an electrical engineering company,. Very few companies are truly expert at both sides of this equation. Speakers on the other hand, are a little bit of both, with mechanical and electrical considerations in their design. Perhaps this is why PS Audio appears to be struggling to get their new speaker line off the ground.
I think Paul is very wise as turntable design and manufacturing is not in PS Audio's current wheelhouse. However, he has mentioned on several occasions that PS Audio would like to be a complete one stop shop for audio equipment. A collaborative venture with a good American company like VPI would be an option I would love to see. Perhaps start with an entry-level table, then a mid and high level offering.
With that chainsaw going in the background had me looking for a tree to crash thru the wall behind Paul. Duck buddy duck! And there is always room for improvement. Back when I was a kid the running joke about the state of electronics was making a huge number of improvements. The Japanese were our biggest competitor for all things, US and all overseas markets. But the Japanese engineers started making things with solid state components. That allowed for smaller electronics, like pocket radios. So they used to say jokingly, the Japanese can make anything we make, they just make it smaller. Does anyone see a problem withs mindset? If they can make circuits smaller they can also take anti sting package and add many more features to what ever they were building. As fa r as speakers go, Paul, do you need anyone to bets t eat your speakers? I’m your man!
I thought Paul might mention Schiit's experiences with their TT. Those are smart guys, and they still had to practically do a recall on the first models.
Yeah, the Sol launch was a mess. That said they definitely did right by their customers. Either return it at no loss, or get a discount for your troubles.
I read an English audio magazine every month and there are an enormous number of new turntables being manufactured now in all price ranges from relatively inexpensive to those costing megabucks , so I can understand Paul's reluctance to have PS Audio become involved
I wonder if the concept of continuous progress in hi-fi is actually like food i.e. not so much. If digital really improves in leaps and bounds as we are often told, then a 1990s CD player (like my Arcam Alpha 8SE) would sound absolutely terrible compared to current digital standards - but it's actually quite good and the differences are not radical. I use it in parallel with streaming through an iFi dac and sometimes prefer one over the other either way. And vinyl - I recently got a Roksan Xerxes on eBay that was made in 1986 and after some servicing and renovation it sounds absolutely brilliant - in some ways better than my LP12 that has the latest Accurate upgrades. Yet the Xerxes is just a solid wood picture frame surrounding two MDF plinths isolated from each other with rubber washers. The bearing is high tolerance and the overall design is intelligent but someone in China (or even in the US or Europe?) could produce a good copy for a relatively low price - sub $1k I think (retail). Perhaps it is time for a proper democratisation of hi-fi - making good solid products at reasonable prices that ordinary people can afford using existing technology rather than chasing unattainable perfection?
Today's sub-$1000 turntables are certainly not an improvement on their 70s/80s equivalents. Back then you had options like resin plinths, quartz-locked direct drive and linear tracking, and even entry-level belt-drive motors were quieter.
digital does not make any leaps beyond processing, speed and optimizations, what was digital in the 80s remains the same in the 2020s, no other improvement can be done on the digital side on the hardware, processing can be made faster, equipment can be made smaller, new faster interfaces can be added, better algorithms can be designed, other bells can be added, but the information remains the same the digital domain doesn’t exist without an analog counterpart however, analog improvements could be made, but not anymore for audio, we are way past that threshold, if anyone else tells you otherwise, like Paul, he’s not teaching you some truth, he’s selling to you, and he’s selling you lies audio is absolutely boring, there is no innovation or improvements to be made; the improvements are horizontal, multi channel audio, simulations and auto corrections, VR audio systems etc. stereo is long done and dead in terms of innovation; the only “innovation” you are going to see, is fools rediscovering 30 year old tech that is wide use everywhere else, and selling it as “audiophile grade”, the audiophile industry is full of incompetent designers, and profiters
Analog audio technology peaked in the 70's. Digital audio is still improving but even then I'd say we're well past the peak of that as well - how much better does digital audio get than a well-mastered CD? Not much.
Paul, Do you have any turntables at your facility? Which ones? Do you have a turntable in your home? Which one? What tone-arms do you have, and at which location? What cartridges do you have, and at which location? Thank you.
@Fat Rat Thanks. Although I value Paul's opinion and expertise, I am not looking to engage him in a one-on-one discussion. I was curious to know what he was using, if anything, and thought that others would like to read his reply. I find that Paul too often does not speak to the obvious, and what I consider to be, salient points. He leaves out somewhat key details. In this case, he posts a video about turntables. Yes, it is about him possibly designing and selling turntables. But you'd think that he would cover the closely related topic of what turntable he chooses for himself and his office?
I like you moving forward. Like the people said, it tells a lot when you admit what you are good at and what you are not. It's too bad Arnie passed away before he finished his last creation, but you are doing a lot for the world by leaving and incorporating the legacy of the giants. :-)
That’s why some small Manufacturers exists like Transrotor or Clearaudio , patents ideas , passion , knowledge , maschines , workers and the own Master Handcraft Skills, learning from the faults. Parallels ? ! Steinway & Sons with the Great Pianos. they do good what they do and make no experimentation and destroying the name and for what they stand. In Germany we have a traditional saying like shoe maker stay by your shoe lasts
Turntable manufacture requires a whole new set of tooling and expertise. Many turntable manufacturers don’t even make their own arms. Then the question will be what about cartridges.
I was thinking the same thing. Back in the 70’s my Dad told me 8-tracks are the future. Well this is the future, I want a 8 -track for my low end system.
An American made, high value turntable would be very welcome. I’m considering moving from Rega to VPI, but would love to see what a competitive product from PS Audio could offer.
Hey Paul, fyi noise cancelling technology is available to remove your noise issue. What else could you use it for? One example is called Krisp (Krisp.ai). I don't recommend its use specifically but the demo I tried was very good. Keep up the good work, love the videos. Stay strong.
Here are some ideas for new products They already exist. But perhaps PS Audio can make improvements over what exits currently: Audiophile Ethernet switch. External master clock connectable to the eithernet switch and to a streamer. A streamer-server-Roon core. Thanks.
Good, honest answer. There are more than enough turntables on the market already, and at all price levels. Maybe you should concentrate on getting that CD/SACD transport released instead.
In general I do prefer components from dedicated companies/ manufacturers who have specialized in ONE or two items to the extreme. There are a few shining exceptions (Einstein audio components for example). If one company „does it all“ its always somehow suspicious to me. As every single component needs special expertise. I understand that many „regular“ Hi-Fi buyers want to go the easy way and don’t want to put much thought in it and take the time to try out and listen but simply want to buy something „decent“ that even has a corporate design (for the WAF). But that’s Hi-Fi...not HighEnd IMHO...
How about a A to D. That would work on existing turntables. Something to make kick assume files in a easy PS audio fashion Maybe you have a product that can do this, but I am thinking in a exclusive manner
Love the videos, but the food analogy did not work today. The food I had a few times at Alinea in Chicago, Bocuse could not have made. The kitchen had Fisher Scientific equipment in it, from rotary evaporators to ultra cold plates. -- I can see that PS audio is not really a TT company, as a TT is much more mechanical while PS audio seems much more electronics based. I don't think you have a CD transport or a reel to reel either. Speakers are possibly the most mechanical in your line-up. No shame, rather cudos of sticking to your strengths.
Considering what is out there now in turntables and the cost to set up the level of tooling to build a quality turntable from scratch I don't think PS would want to go down that path!
Because turntables are an old and outdated format. Pop, hiss, crack..... If always making gains in the audio world where and when does it end? Been hearing for decades "the closest sound to live you will ever hear". Were we being lied to then or now? What are the so called "gains" being made? Is it that much more clearer then the system that has been out for 2 or 5 years? Was 2018 or 2015 the stone age when it came to audio? Are we now able to reach frequencies that we never have before? Are we now able to hear those frequencies with the human ear? PS Audio's reference speakers are 30+ years old. Did Infinity pull off a miracle that we are still trying to figure how they did it today like some piece of space alien technology that fell to earth we have never seen before? They have had them apart to rebuild, maybe they should have took some pictures of what's inside.
I want a ps audio record changer..... in the vein of the zenith micro touch... built in 45 adapter.... the works.... built to PS standards....it would be amazing... there are way to many fully manual tt out there... I want full automation.... and modern quality
I would love for you guys to make Sprout a full budget line. Maybe offering the Dac, Phono preamp, preamp, and power amp sections as separates. Obviously this would cost more but for some it may make sense. I'm still over the moon with my Sprout100. Great little unit.
How about a PS Audio reel-to-reel analog tape deck? Oh, wait, you're DSD guys. I still mentally drool at the one that frequently shows up to the side of the posts from your office. What kind is it?
@@BavarianM Yeah, the Ballfingers from Germany and I read that Thorens will soon (if not already) have a playback only deck made by them. All too rich for my blood, but never-the-less "Happy, happy, joy, joy!"
A turn table is an exceptionally simple device. The signal path has zero electronics, it’s just wires connecting the head shell directly to the turntable outputs. All the electronics is in the phono amp which is a preamp function. That leaves the TT to take care of mechanical noise, shielding & grounding issues only. The best upgrade you can do for a TT is take all the connectors apart, treat them with Deoxit conditioner then plug them all back together. It is interesting to me that it is so extremely difficult to find a high spec TT these days. I have a vintage LAB 440 TT; it was sold through Tandy electronics. The specs on that put it in about the top 10% of all TTs. Sure, there are some that have better wow and flutter and others that have better S/N but there are very few that are better in both these specs and it wasn't particularly expensive. The curious thing is that with the resurgence in vinyl, I keep seeing new TT's for sale but their basic specs are just, well, exceedingly poor by comparison. Then you have to ask yourself that given the deterioration of LP collections collecting dust and inherently poor S/N and dynamic range of the media, what's the point really? The fact is that despite the popularity of vinyl back in the day, we just all got conned into believing this was a superior media. It wasn't. The fact is that tape was and still is the superior analogue media, that's why mastering was done on chrome tape. In fact chrome master tape is the source for digital versions of 70s/80s recorded music. Look at the technical facts, vinyl just sucks bad and accept, you were conned.
If there's anything we need out here in the world as far as turntables go, it's something with an optical pickup. That may even be possible to accomplish without turning the record - wouldn't that be something?
This is a very funny video, Paul. Never video hungry! Ha ha ha Oh... and the sounds! Come on... blaming your rumbling stomach on the neighbor? Shame on you. Lol Thank you for the fun!
Well, for one thing the PS Audio folks are not all that into analog, they are more digital, but putting that aside as just a mere side note of no real significance. For one thing I don't think they are real interested in it (judging by the phono preamp they made. It seemed like a side project and I salute the effort, but it needs significant improvement. I have heard slightly less costly phono pres that sound notably better, not because of less cost (they are not that much less), but the designs are different or done differently that just happen to produce better result. Of course the argument can be accurately made that all audio had room for improvement and that improvement is happening, so there is hope. The thing is also that designing and producing turntables is an entirely different animal than amps and dacs and such. They would have to retool a part of the business to accommodate and hire a real expert in turntable design. The only similar thing is the precise measurements that must be made just as one would do for amps and other gear. That said though, they are designing speakers now and it is not a very far leap from speakers to turntables, at least some of it. Lastly, as mentioned, realistically, there are already loads of great turntables out there all over the place at every price point (Pro-ject, Rega, VPI, Acoustic Signature, EAT, Clear Audio, I could go on for 20 more minutes). So they would be entering a rather saturated market.
Randon question you will probably not see - I want to find a nice USB headphone amp for my laptop. I have a decent set of headphones, they are old but reliable (Sony V6), but nothing modern I play them through sounds good. My home receiver sounds great but laptops, Iphones etc sound crappy.
Try a Audioquest Dragonfly. They come in three price ranges, and all of them have a lot of good reviews. I like mine, too. : ) If you're adventurous, I would recommend switching from Windows to Linux, and getting an SSD if you don't already have one. Music on a Linux system sounds substantially better in my experience, and SSD's certainly sound better than HDD's. I recommend the Audacious music player for Linux, with the SoX Resampler enabled in the settings. For your Android phone, I would recommend the Poweramp music player, again with the SoX resampler enabled in settings. I think you may be very pleasantly surprised with those combinations. You may even want to try one of those solutions before getting the DAC. With the exception of the SSD, they are much less expensive! : )
PS Audio Sprout turntable? That would be the Elac Miracord 90, just look at it. Jokes apart, you do decide to make one, please make it in the US. U-turn can as well at a lot lower price point and I will never buy a TT made in China.
What is great value in high end audio? Personally its longevity! If you make a product that retails for $20,000 and sells used for $7,000 a year later then it was basically crap. We like to feel that our hard earned money is an investment.
Electronics is a very different engineering field from mechanics. The transport in a CD or DVD/BD player or a precision disc rotating mechanism require different design skills from the world of electronics. Manufacturing a machine is much different from producing electronic equipment. Better to stay in the top of your field rather than delving into uncharted fields like mechanics. Stick to what you know and do best.
Audio equipment is not like food but more like cars. I mean you could have a “Corolla” vs “ Mercedes SL Roadster” . Because you keep using it unlike food where once you consume your body flushes it out!
People who want PS Audio products in their home??? Like Paul who admitted on video that he uses Emotiva amps in his home? Thats gotta tell you something
Food tasted better back in the day! Eat pork and tel me that it tastes the same as it did 20 years ago. I grew up if farm country and can taste the difference between Fatty pork of old and the lean pork of today , it is just not the same.
A few years ago, a story was circulating about archeologists discovering some viable yeast in a three-thousand year old Egyptian tomb. One of the archeologists took some of the yeast and made sourdough bread with it, then stated that the bread we have today is a very pale shadow of what was available then.
Food now is worse than 150 years ago - intensive animal farming has lowered the taste and quality of meat, polytunnel vegetable and fruit farming has lost the taste of slow-grown SEASONAL fruits and vegetables. Add in some chemicals and some steroids and we're pretty much eating tasteless, potentially damaging food. I sort of feel we're doing the same to music with streaming services. Poorly paid artists who produce music to meet targets, rather than bands nurtured and given time to record in proper studios, whose produce is bought for real money on real physical formats. Sometimes progress for progress sake is ill-advised. Good on you for not doing turntables just because you *could*.
Vinyl is for people who prefer poor quality flattened audio with no dynamic range. It has a characteristic sound:- UNREALISTIC, compared to real-world actual sounds.
