WHY OLD SCHOOL AMP DISTORTION = THE BEST DISTORTION! 

Pete has class like some well known pros like Lynch, Hoekstra, Mr Mars etc. Just a great human being to share his world of guitar with us all. The new generation of guitar players should relish in these times. Not so long ago you couldn’t find any instructions on “how too” etc other than VHS tape purchases through guitar mags. Now it’s free on RU-vid. Enjoy it while it lasts kids. 🤘

The next time anyone asks me something about gain, I'm sending them this video. It's perfect.

A true masterclass on tone, thanks Pete!

This was one of the most insightful deep dives into rock guitar tone I've ever watched.

This is the clearest explanation of what makes an older style amp awesome I've ever seen.

Yes! Nothing like hitting a massive A chord and hearing the tubes react on a cranked marshall!

The plexi has a power transformer with a high internal resistance along with minimal filtering in the filter caps (to store energy). As you “turn it up” the transformer has to deliver more current. But the transformer resistance along with the limited energy stored in the filter caps causes the voltage to sag. Voltage is your dynamics.

This was so wonderfully nerdy, it could have lasted for hours and I'd still be tuned in. Great content Pete as always!

10:30 You nailed it, Pete! The sag and non-linear bloom you're describing is why I love amp distortion over anything else.

Thanks Pete. Tube amps are just so much fun. They truly become part of the instrument. It is a feel you can never duplicate with modeling even though it has it's place as another great tool for the guitarist. I even feel a big difference with tube over solid state rectification when the amp is driven hard. It is amazing how the feel of an amp and how it responds can drastically influence how you play. Thanks for showing younger players examples of the dynamics of driven tube amps. Something us old pickers fell in love with years ago. As usual Pete you were very spot on with your great playing examples.

I used to have a '74 Super Lead, mid to late 80s. Jumped the channels, turned them up and adjusted to taste to get my then Rush obsessed distortion tone. Learning to play that sound is like learning to ride a rhinoceros, given the possibility. The very definition of balls without being super saturated, and my ears still ring to this day. When I listen to 2112 on All The World's A Stage I feel like I know exactly what Alex Lifeson was experiencing in that performance, particularly the low D bend during the solo in Soliloquy. Balls deluxe.

Deserves 5 thumbs up! The sort of knowledge that would take thousands of $$$ to acquire, and hours of testing. Thanks Pete 👍

Pete, this is the first legit description of amp distortion! I'm an amp builder myself and have discovered the delights of driving the phase inverter/output tubes/output transformer! I built an amp with just the phase inverter and output stages to test this. I got the idea taking my 66 Blackface Deluxe Reverb to jam sessions and cranked it all the way up. The gain structure of a tube amp can be setup so that all of the stages (except the first preamp stage) hit the clipping point at the same time. We hit tone nirvana then!

There's nothing like a 50 watt non-master volume Marshall cranked. Raw and unleashed

4:00 in is what Mark Cameron told me like 10 years ago and I communicate to others, but not just based on the amplifier (being sum of the parts), but EVERYTHING is working together as what I call a "Marriage"! The guitar....what is the wood used? is it vintage before harvesting restrictions or new? Is it hollow, reliefed, or solid body? Is it on-piece or multi? That pickups are used? Are they 7k, 10k, or 18k? What magnets are used (Alnico II, III, V, other)? What cord is used? Coiled, straight? What is the length and capacitance? What gauge? How tightly or loose are the strains? What material? What tubes are used? Model, Manufacturer, Gain? What cabinet? Dimensions? Closed-back, ported, or open back? What speakers? What resistance of the speakers? Even the pick...try a vintage medium versus a Tortex. Different attacks and tone on the strings! The last thing, and many people confuse the word "tone" being in the "hands". It's a part of the whole, but isn't really "tone" so much as it is "timbre" and "sound". People tend to confuse these terms. Timbre is in the hands. Tone is sum of the wholes of the above!!

Totally agree that older style circuits deliver “the goods”. While my electronics theory is not up to par with real-world amp builders, I build my own stuff and can weigh in on some factors / observations. 1. Tube count. I think two preamp valve circuits offer just the right balance of distortion because it maintains an insane amount of what I perceive as “percussion” - pick attack. Once more valves are added to the equation, you have to do crazy amounts of low end dumping to maintain an acceptable sound. An EVH for example (as PV 5150 before it) dumps a massive amount of low end between the first two stages to keep all that pick attack. 2. Power filtering. Most modern amps use an incredibly high amount of power filtering to get that DC as smooth as possible (1Hz). Again as an example, EVH and Soldano (very similar circuits) use as much as 4x or more the amount of power filtering (reservoir) in the initial filtering stages. But then lower the values at the preamp to obtain a sort of raw and “bounce” character to the sound. Old plexi amps had very low filtering (including the so called 12xxx era ’68 plexi). Even in or around ’69 much of the power filtering was nearly doubled at most points. Makes the amp over all “stiffer” sounding. 3. Compression/Glue etc… the so called “sag” that we absolutely love about the old Marshall sound seems to be a combination of above said power filtering combined with the drop in B+ voltages. The amp is struggling to reproduce the deep bass frequencies, which eat up a ton of power, thus the voltage drops and we hear this compression and blooming going on. I try to get my MV friends, that use 800’s or more modern amps, to start with the master at at least 7. I keep my MV on my 2203 circuit at 8. Then use the preamp gain to make up what you’re missing or balance the tone with the bright cap that is on the preamp vol. Even a 5150III sound rather nice to me when the master is high and use the preamp vol to balance it out. The word Master Volume seems to have psyched people out. Of course volume is always an issue, but there are several ways to combat that - PPIMV probably being the least invasive to the core tone… maybe. My perfect 2203 circuit would have a pre and a post MV. It’s not redundant… and sometimes too much PI distortion can be a tad ratty when there are ore preamp valves (not including the PI). Well, I’m no master of the arts, this is just a collection of my personal thoughts and observations being obsessed with building my own amps for my use.

Who in the actual fuck down voted this video? This is guitar nerd gold!

Brilliant discussion! I never would have thought to compare the transformer responses. Really well done Pete!

Thanks Pete! This was a nicely detailed and understandable demo of the different kinds of amp gain. I had a basic understanding of it, but this filled in the gaps. Thank god for my Power Station, so I can crank it when I need to!

One of the coolest and informative segments on tube amps that I've seen in a while. Thanks Pete!

Pete Thorn, you have a way of bringing things full circle and just want you to know how much you are appreciated! I know Eddie's looking down and smiling upon you and your willingness to share your knowledge! Thank you

Listening to you “rant and rave” was fun! You do a good job explaining complex concepts on these amps, like pre-and post- phase inverter master volumes.

I have used and loved many of the amps shown here. Power amp overdrive adds so much to the resonance of the sound and feel of non-master amps. Great video Pete; please keep making them!

Damn Pete your videos just keep getting better and better. Super cool video. I describe the tone of old Marshall’s as elastic and chewy. Your sag demo just showed it. So cool!!!

I think it´s the "ghosting" thing that happens when you crank the amp that makes it sound amazing. Great video as always!

Super helpful- I’m over 50 & have been listening closely to this kind of thing for many years & it’s only now beginning to become clear what is actually going on👍🇬🇧🎸

This is the most informative, best explained presentations on how tube amp distortion is generated. Really this is like a master clinic on the topic. I learned so much-- I'm going to have to watch this video a few times. Thanks, Pete.

Of the gazillion youtube posts on amps I've watched, this is stand out the best, thanks so much Pete!!

Thanks, Pete. This is exactly what I preach to fans and friends. Ever since acquiring a Germino Lead55 non master volume, I now have tha Holy Grail of an old Plexi Marshall. My modern hi gain peamp amplifiers are tucked away. Reactive load boxes are a blessing to use this design at acceptable volume levels.

Over the years, Pete's become a fantastic "student of the game." It's really cool to see a player with his skills, actually dive into the nuances of the gear. It's great to see/listen/hear Pete's discussions about the little things - that all matter and add up to a player's "signature/sound/footprint/stamp" - like power tube brand selection, preamp tubes, NOS versus CP tubes, mic placement, amp distortion, and on and on. Pete - kudos on another highly informational, useful, and fun video. Thanks for putting in the time and work to make this info available to the masses - it's greatly appreciated.

I love amps too !!! Pete your demo’s and descriptions are accurate and very informative. I have experimented over the years with tube amplifiers and pedals and yes the overdrive character of tubes is the best over all .. Drive those puppies hard and your guitar will thank you for that !!!

Oh boy, Pete, this was just plain amazing, and insight my heart has been longing for since many years of experimenting.

I love how those PAF's on the destroyer choke/squish out at revved volumes when playing RWTD! There's like this squeek that happens when you strum with wide open pots- 👏🏻💎

Truth! Plugging straight into amps is screaming back into the flow now. I have gone the digital route for so long and last week I tapped an old amp and cranked it. The tone is there! Organic, tubes, symbiotic relationship from player to speaker.

I marked this to watch later, so glad I finally watched the whole thing! I know just enough about what you are explaining to know that you are explaining something very complicated in terms common people can relate to.... and backing that up with examples. You could be a phenomenal teacher... but for now, please keep on playing guitar!!!

Great vid Pete, what a great rabbit hole to go down, & love the captions! I find master vol and bass EQ get that sag effect going on my Matamp - then mid EQ, presence, and the guitar vol and tone then determine how pronounced the 'howling' effect is (after the initial pick attack). Definitely a more interactive experience than preamp based topology, and evokes a different approach from you as a player.

My favorite amp I ever owned was an old Magnatone 23 watt, practice amp. It had only one, eight-inch speaker. But if I put my RAT pedal into the front, I could get such awesome gain from driving the imput. Probably sounds weird, but I miss those days. It was all so new and I got so many cool sounds from so little gear. Just a Stratocaster a cheap, old tube amp and a RAT pedal.

IMO, the experience of playing through a plexi is unmatched. The feel and tone is just hard to describe. It’s so satisfying. FYI, the new 20-watt Marshall plexi is fantastic. Highly recommended. Very loud too!!

Pete, you give the most informative and detailed explanations. Before I pull the trigger on something, I look you up first. Thanks much!

Thank you for this video Pete! Nothing beats good old Power tube distortion and it cleans up!

You always get the best tones, Pete. There is a tradeoff for using a cranked tube amp, though, and that's the maintenance involved. That's why I quit using tube amps almost entirely. I love the sound but don't know a thing about working on them. I could replace preamp tubes easily, but I don't know anything about biasing an amp and I don't want to mess around with something that contains enough voltage to kill you if you don't know what you're doing. Add to that the problem of the expense of getting someone to do it all for you and how long it will take them to get to it if you can even find anyone and it just makes more sense to me to run a few pedals into a solid state Quilter amp, which is what I've been doing for a while, and I'm happy enough. It's certainly nothing like tubes, though. It's also not like I ever had much reason to use high-wattage tube amps considering 95% of the time I play at home and the other 5% of the time I play at a church that requires a quiet stage.

Great video! I love my JTM45 and I hear this while playing it every time, and I agree it does have some effect on how you respond to the amp as you're playing it - is very symbiotic and I don't get that sensation while playing some the very modern amps out now. It was a difficult amp to learn to play at loud volume, but has been very rewarding. Thanks again Pete!

Truly the crust of the biscuit! Awesome job Peter. The quest for the holy grail brought me to this great channel, plexi the reference. All great rock albums was recorded with the reference tone the most desired tone. We have come 360 degrees back to output generated distortion with all the wonderful characteristics you explained perfectly, tube generated even order harmonics. The beauty of the early amps was the inefficiency of the components and circuit. No need to thank me I'm thanking you man! Killer!💪🤘

This is easily the best explanation and demonstration I have ever seen as to how this all works. Thanks a lot, Pete. Your videos really provide a lot for musicians of all stripes (even us blues guys who really don't get a lot of focus).

It's amazing, you think Pete couldn't possibly have anything more to say on old-school tone and he releases the most interesting and insightful video yet. This was not the video I expected when I saw the title, but it's exactly the kind of thing I wanted.

Another great cerebral, analytical study in tube amp tone. I really love the way you're educating folks that weren't around back in the 70s, (like me) . I would love to see you A/B your PT 15 dimed against your SL68 (also dimed). Then you can compare 450V on the plates on a of quad EL34s against 350V on a pair of 6V6s. The goal to compare tone other than the obvious sound pressure levels, or loudness?

Pete - Thank you so very much for the time and effort putting this video together. Over the last few years I have transformed all my guitar rigs back to all tube pre-amps and power amps. I was one of those "digital" guys for 12 long years and discovered one day that I sounded like every other guitar player using digital modelers. The difference since this transformation has been stunning. I couldn't agree with you more about old school tube amp distortion, it is now the basis of all my guitar amps. My recording tone has improved 100% and is far more dynamic , "Live" and warm sounding. Your video really clears up why this approach to distortion is different from other methods. I wish I had seen this many years ago! \m/ \m/

PETE - just discovered this video Sept 2022 - You're such a studied genius for all this equipment - with the golden ears to do it - Thanks !

Hey, Pete. I design tube guitar and hifi amps for my hobby (many years now). This is the best video I've seen to demo the differences in sound between the vintage and modern designs. Another important difference is the use of 'cold clipper' stages in modern preamp stages that come before the phase-inverter: these bias the midpoint of the waveform so that the clipping is all on one side of it, leaving the other half undistorted by the stage. This asymmetrical overdrive makes for a more defined sound relative to a similarly dirty sound from a vintage design, where the clipping is more symmetrical.

I'd love to hear you try to get an Eric Johnson-type tone with an old Marshall. This video is such a fantastic way to explain why tube amps simply cannot be replaced by pedals, let alone vintage tube amps which work as a whole system in concert.

Insightful video PT! Thanks for sharing 🎸

Thanks so much, Pete for helping us learn SO much more about amps; that was a lot of fun

Yeah buddy! The best “distortion” ever is volume! Of course I do like a bit of pre amp distortion like anyone else, but I prefer the old school EVH way of developing some power amp saturation as well and introducing some speaker breakup as well. If it’s too loud, you’re too old. And that’s coming from an old guy. 😂

When the video starts with the best tone I’ve ever heard, I know it’s gonna be good.

I had asked if you could do a video on setting 4 hole Marshall's up and some tone examples, but then I found your video where you did just that 😀! I just bought a 1959 Plexi clone and am getting used to a NMV amp And the two volume channels. Lots of great tones to be had with all kinds of gear, but you are right...these amp circuits are the magic sauce! The DNA behind all my favorite rock albums. Rock on Pete!

Brilliant video Pete!

Great insights into distortion. I couldn't agree more. Even amps with preamp gain seem to sound better when you back off of the preamp gain, crank the output a little, and THEN add a little preamp to taste. That compression, or what I call bloom, occurs in the power amp, there is nothing like it. I also think that the reaction of the speakers to the output stage tends to have a little to do with it as well. Great video!

For me, power tube distortion is just a lot more musical than pre-amp distortion. It makes playing a lot more fun and exciting, whatever guitar I'm playing comes alive in my hands and I end up playing for hours. Good luck to everyone and another shout out to Pete for sharing his dedication and wisdom.

Thank you Pete, this is the best demonstration and explanation of this I've seen. I've always thought of this tone as "juicy" for whatever reason, although that is more for the rolled-back tones. it just has more character. What randomly came to mind after watching this though was the difference between setting a sound down on a table for people to just hear vs. picking it up and throwing it at them.

Just a perfect video! Very informative. It explains what I felt when playing my Marshall plexi and my Soldano SLO, but couldn’t name it. 👏

"There's only one way to get there, and that's turn it up." I need that on a T-Shirt. I also need a sticker that I can put on my amp, just as a reminder.

Gotta say Pete, even with youtube compresisng audio, ever since I got a pair of very flat and neutral studio speakers your demos have been SO helpful. Even thru youtube now I can hear about as close to what I can expect if I try them in a live environment. I really appreciate all the hard work brother!! All of your amazing phrasing and style also makes it super enjoyable to listen to haha. Stay cool dude!

What a great video! The audio comparison and explanation were perfect!

Very nice vid with great insights! Learned a lot. Would love to see more of this, what you mention at the end ;) Thanks!

Awesome Pete! ...and I always thought a huge part of it was the raging 4X12 cabinet screaming "No Mas!". I'm telling you youngsters here, there is no thrill like having your back turned to a 4X12 cab on stage and riffing like Mr. Thorn here! Every budding rock guitarist should know that feeling. For what is worth check out Criss Oliva's tone on the 1993 release' Edge Of Thorns" throughout the whole album, the rhythm guitar tone is brutal. It truly has that "Wall Of Marshall's" sound. You can almost feel the air be pushed by the cabs! Just beautiful! Then there's the brilliant lead work...another story altogether I'm sure! If anyone out there reading this knows that story, into how his sound was captured for that release...please do tell!

Thanks for explaining something I always noticed about Eddie's tone. I've always thought his tone had a breathing quality to it, and a snappy snarl at times. That really explains why classic Van Halen sounds like that, and later Van Halen doesn't.

Amazing video! Thanks for all the hard work on this one Pete.

Hahahahaha, that big smile on your face when you engage the gain boost in the Jose-modded amp says it all. "Ahh yes: MORE GAIN!" ;-)

Pete always describes tone like no one else. A cranked plexi ! My next favorite would be JMP 2204 or JMP 2203JMP I believe The 1st Master volumeTube amp marshals made I like it better then a JCM 800. Rock on Pete.

My archetype for wound-out tube amp is John McLaughlin with the original Mahavishnu Orchestra in Central Park, August 1973. The guitar solo in "Sister Andrea" has that perfect meltdown tone. From what I can tell from photos from the era, it's probably a Marshall Super Lead full stack - likely a backline rental. But even way shy of that, even a Princeton Reverb turned all the way up will make you feel like f'n Pete Townshend.

Great video. Pete, you’re one of my favorite artists and youtubers. Thanks

Thank you Pete! Another awesome video brother, and as you would guess, the very rabbit hole that I completely adore! (for anyone that hasn't heard an SL68 in the flesh: YOU MUST!!! Seeing the waveform difference, and also just listening to the transformers is AMAZING!!! (it was always my favourite thing doing recording sessions for people when the head was in the control room - they'd always be amazed and say "I can hear the sound INSIDE the head?!?!" haha)

Started playing live in early '70.....started out with crap amps, hated my tone....but I was always told to turn down ( played in bars and small halls ).....I've never had the old " non master volume amps".....my first "good" amp was a Boogie MKIIB....it was really the first time I could get the drive I wanted....and I was still told to turn down.....I never could blast an amp the way everyone wanted to......so you make due.....I figured how to place the amp on stage so it wasn't blasting into the crowd and the sound man.....I could get enough of the power stage to help "push" the tone, but I learned to use low wattage amps....now I use a Boogie 20 watt Subway Rocket 1x10 combo, and it works. I can turn it up. No, it's not the same as blasting the 100 watt amps, but who can do that anymore? I learned to use low wattage amps....and learned to like it.

I finally just admitted to it a few years back and got the 4-hole Plexi, because while there's many imitators, there's really only one original for that tone, to me anyway...no turning back now...and it's NOT just a one-trick pony, it's a tonal beast on a whole lot of levels. Dynamic, finger induced overdrive if you want it. While it takes pedals really well, naked with a guitar pluged in and the player is really all one needs (ask Angus), all in the guitar and amp and player relationship there; that dynamic is not available with an OD or distortion pedal into a clean amp. Yes, I keep an old Showman around for that sound too though...flavors.

Damn, this was in-depth! Just what I needed in my search for tone!

Amazing. Thank you for making this.

Love the old school sound - that sag to me sounds more "natural" to what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's.

I've always steered away from distortion and overdrive pedals and used the amp preamp and power amp gain and it's much more organic and less chopped off on top.

Hey Pete-another fantastic video!!! I truly love your stuff and your clips have contributed greatly to my GAS-THANKS 🤘🏻😜🤘🏻 On a side note, I’m currently listening to your Guitar Nerd album and absolutely love Monster Movie. You rock, bud.

Thanks Pete, I never fail to learn something new from your videos, be it theory, technique, or relating to tech/gear.

Pete Townshend’s HiWatt amp distortion sound from Live At Leeds is the greatest guitar tone of all time.

I don't know how many singers I've tried to explain this too as I'm blowing their little Yamaha P.A. away in practice!

I've had my Suhr Badger 18 for almost 10 years as my number one, mostly because of your awesome demo. Thanks for the great work throughout the years!

It baffles me your channel hasn't hit a million subs yet, love your videos dude!

This explains why I have never liked any digital amp type or plug in based guitar rig system. I’ve always preferred lower wattage amps and CRANKING THEM. The over all dynamic and “feel” is something I have gotten so used to. I have friends who keep having me try Kempers and other digital rigs, and they sound cool, but I’ve always gone back to my cranked tube rigs. The tone is the sum of ALL it’s parts. Now I know why, thank you!

Hey Pete! 3 THINGS: First, there's just no duplicating ( but some get close ) the tone of an old Plexi's tone that sounds so "alive", but I think of equal importance, something ya didn't mention, is when ya rolled off the guitar's volume for the verses of the EVH song, the old Marshall sounds SO much more musical & sweeter vs amps with built-in pre-amps. All of the above is why I want one of Marshall's new little 20w Studio Plexi amps. I've played through a few at various shops and I swear, I love the tone of that little amp ( EVEN THE COMBO!!! ) better than any of my JCM 800's and 900's. Not to mention it has some new features vs the old Plexi's. 20 watts rms is still loud as hell, but at least you can crank it to get that tone without sheering the enamel off your teeth & killing small animals within 100 ft, lol. Have you tried the new 20w Marshall Studio Plexi yet? I think they nailed it.

Thank you! This is absolutely amazing and just the kind of stuff I love about vintage amps. Going back to the basics of how a guitar signal is basically modulating a power transformer to drive a speaker is so essential to understand the basics of true guitar tone. This is what modern technology and modelers can't recreate, the synergy of the circuitry.

would venture to say if Ed was still around he'd watch this & go, "hmmmm, so that's what I was doing!"

Pete still has the coolest Ibanez ever.

Wholesomely delivered highly nourishing guitar noise learning. Top stuff Pete!

This was one of the most interesting videos I have seen. You really explain and demo the what's and why's of interplay in the tube stages. Thanks!

I think sag is the most noticeable difference, everything else is really just different flavors of clipping.

This whole talk and demo reminds me of the Metroamp Forum in the early 2000's when there was so much of this type of discussion / trial and error and everyone contributing alot / I learned so much back then // awesome video Pete ! who mics a transformer ? you do...... and that makes this video that much more awesome !!

That Destroyer Sounds AMAZING!!!! Nice score, love your channel and your tone! Carry On Mate!

Super cool experiment and hearing the sounds was very satisfying. I gotta say, the unsung heroes of that room of yours are those cabinets supporting a ton in amps. And amps on top of other amps. And then some more lol.

@18:07 I know all of the good 'distiortion' is in the power section. Cheers!

I have a live Allan Holdsworth dvd playing a Solid State amp for lead getting Killer Tone !!! Go figure!!

New lighting looks great Pete!

Really cool Pete. You explained the unexplained. I know what Plexi feels like but never knew exactly why. Great job

Another great video and I love the Explorer! I just jammed with a new band last week and took my slightly modded 1984 50w JCM800 2x12 combo with me (a heavy beast to be sure). The 2 other guitar players had a DSL100 half stack and a 100w Peavey Valveking half stack. We did a quick sound check before any playing to be sure we were all at the same levels. We started the first song, "Just Got Paid", and the bass player (leader of the band) stopped the playing after about a minute and said that I had to turn down. Now we were all at the same dB level, yet my old JCM800 was cutting thru as if it was louder than everyone else. Just sayin'...