Why People Have Stopped Playing Pokemon Trainer | Super Smash Bros. Ultimate 

Shame they’ve lost competitive relevance because they’re one of the coolest designed fighters in the game and by far the best representative of Pokémon as a franchise

Still one of the most exciting additions to the franchise tbh

I lol'd pretty hard at "warcrimes for aerials". It's so true, Ivysaur has some of the best in the game. Which is pretty bizarre for a plant.

at the very least, they're one of the most entertaining characters to watch imo. Being 3 characters in one and each one having different strengths and weaknesses provides a good amount of variance in a match, plus seeing how different players pilot them

I think one thing you forgot to mention was that PT had actual type matchups in Brawl, further cementing Ivysaur as the worst of the 3. There are a plethora of fire based moves in Smash compared to water or grass.

One of their biggest problems compared to pyra and mythra (similar to shulk's issue) is that their swap is not as on demand and fully under control as Aegis. PT has to do a fixed cycle, meaning you can't just be squirtle whenever you want unless you potentially want to do two swaps successively. Combined with their swap being longer and stalling them, and having to do two swaps is a downtime and risk. Shulk similarly can't just be any monado mode he wants at any time. He's got a fixed duration and cooldown on his arts that he's got to constantly juggle. He can't just go to kill mode or tank mode at any split second he wants. Aegis at least can always swap to speed form or kill form at any time and their swap is smooth and fast.

You forgot to mention in Brawl they used to take more damage based off the element they got hit by. For example Ivy took more to fire attacks.

PT's disadvantage is by far one of the most daunting factors when it comes to their pros and cons. They've been my main for the better part of a few months now but it can be difficult navigating through matches with the lack of speed and overall lag they have at times. Even then, they're one of the characters that kept me motivated enough to keep practicing Ultimate, so I'm thankful. Plus they're fun to experiment with.

PT also has a insane amount of matchups to learn, courtesy of having 3 characters in one. It may be easy to play each pokemon to their strengths, but sometimes you might be matchup checked if you do not know how to fight against a character with just one pokemon.

Pokemon Trainer was my main in Brawl and when Red returned in Ultimate he went back to my main. I honestly don't care if he isn't used highly in competition play because I still like Red.

I was honestly expecting a why everyone plays for PT, excited to hear your thoughts as always Edit: upon watching the video the mental aspect of playing pt is interesting. I've never really thought about the mental aspect of learning a character with a very unorthodoxed play style IG that's why we don't see many olimar or pacman players

“warcrimes to aerials” i was not expecting that holy shit lmfao

"No one" is definitely not the term I'd use.

I think a new series that should exist is like “Why MORE people should play _____” and it details a character’s strengths that are good in the current meta but not much people play them unless it’s too similar to “Why No one plays.” Some characters who fit that bill are like Terry, Young Link, Ness, or Samus

I'm a current PT main that dropped the character for all the reasons you mentioned. However I actually came back to playing them after a year because I missed the feeling of always learning something new about a matchup. Yes it's a lot of work as you said but I also think that's part of the fun of ultimate.

Your analysis is so on point, it's extremely enjoyable watching your videos!

Someone in the PT discord was talking about convincing Quidd to drop out of college so that we would have some sort of representation. We're starving out here man

Pokémon Trainer is my main so I've been looking forward to this video for a while. Honestly mostly what I expected - having to learn 3 individual movesets and 3 times as many matchups make them probably the hardest character to just pick up and learn, especially compared to many other characters who are both simpler and higher tier. That said I still think they're an incredibly fun and rewarding character if you put the time in - being able to just _entirely switch archetypes in the middle of the match_ is so freeing, especially as someone who tends to get bored playing one character after not too long.

I love how a lot of the recent videos I've been watching have been using the Pokemon Colosseum OST. Such an iconic soundtrack!

Totally off topic from the video but that cipher peon battle theme from pokemon coliseum takes me back :,)

As an ex-PT main, I'm so happy you made this video. I know my reason for stopping, but wondered what made everyone else stop

The biggest buff they should have done is be able for you to switch "backwards". (Squirtle switching to Charizard without needing to go to Ivysaur first)

I was going crazy because I've been watching your videos and thinking how your voice sounds so recognizable. And then I realized I watched a bunch of your league videos on your other channel when my friends made me download it.

nice touch to include pkm colosseum music always amazing songs

Part of the reason I picked up pokemon trainer was that you basically get to counterpick mid match if one playstyle isn't working, unlike aegis, where pyra is basically a lose neutral win advantage state button. So it's interesting that vars calls that matchup flexibility a downside where you have to have more matchup knowledge. Also no squirtle does not have an offstage remotely as bad as ganondorf I'm sorry that's egregious cap 🧢.

Another reason why PT fell off is because of severe nerfs. Ivysaur lost his broken dair. Yea it's still good but before it was literally easier to hit the sweet spot than sour spot. He also had vine whip lose significant knockback taking away a vital kill option. Razor leaf also gained a few frames in start up.

Back-throw into Flare Blitz is such a headass combo

I like practicing with Trainer. I think my adhd helps it but keeping track of each pokemon and their differences actually set me up with some really good neutral throw offs. Yes, i use all 3 pokes, mainly Ivy. But i feel like keeping Ivy as my neutral helps me figure out when to utilize the other 2 situationally.

Kind of unrelated, but in a game where kill throws are rare, why does PT have SEVEN?! (squirtle bthrow, ivy dthrow and bthrow, charizard fthrow and bthrow and upthrow)

You should do a video on the Ice Climbers

these are like my favorite videos on youtube

Great content, lovely edited and paced. Invest in new mic next

13:07 i will never do something as impressive as that

WOW, three uploads from my favorite YT?! what a day.

Looking forward to this one

PT is the coolest character in the game but people just don’t wanna play em

PT is always gonna be strong

At long last. A video that explains my exact feelings about P.T. and why I love AND hate this character and being a main of this character. Great advantage state on all 3, awful disadvantage on all 3... overall a glass cannon jack of all trades master of none who relies on matchup knowledge for all 3 characters and in depth knowledge of how every move in your arsenal works.

I think it would be better if squirtle was replaced by wartortle and ivysaur to bulbasaur. Bulbasaur being a little more evasive but lighter won't hurt it much, since it is playing on distance anyway, while wartortle will reward with a little bit more survivability and kill power, but still lacking physics. And also giving them a down-b would help a lot. In order to change pokémon they have to shield and press b, just like inkling charges her ink. Double b of course meaning to skip directly to the other pokémon.

Surprised there was no mention of Brawl's knockback type effectiveness, something that would be really cool to see on Squirtle again given all of the fire attacks that Smash has

I play pokemon trainer and i can say that pt isnt mental draining at all. Pt is very easy to play

Wish this video came out when I was still playing pt: I spent the game's life trying to figure out why I was never able to play well as all the mons together but often did better when I was able to stay one mon

pt and shulk stat shifts are also a trait shared with olimar. though for olimar it's very much worse as it's more complex and are more vulnerable without using it. like if shulk had all the debuffs of his monado arts all the time so is forced to use manado arts to make one of them good for a short bit.

Personally I just hate how charizard's forward air doesn't auto cancel anymore like it did in smash 4. Without that marth-like fair to rely on in neutral he feels SO clunky to try to solo main

I enjoy this character a lot. It feels good to learn how each Pokémon works and functions together. Even if the character is overshadowed, they are still fun for me

It was mentioned that pt is momentum based. I think the idea of trying to figure out all matchups is a little weird. Especially since there are almost 100 characters, i feel it makes more sense to not go in with matchup knowledge per-say. some adjustments to gameplan makes sense, but since their offense is so good, they stay strong because I think it’s better for them to stay strong and confident and just stick to the strong offense. Overthinking disadvantage and trying to dissect the roster counteracts the foundation of the character. Focus on your game, know the character rather than the opponent, be confident and get creative. In my opinion, that is the magic of PT and is what makes the character worth playing

Sad to see since I loved watching them back then

Can you make a video on BOTW Link? He’s my main but unfortunately gets very little representation. Would love to see what you think about him

PT isnt the best but has the greatest potential. Like it’s been highlighted in the video, we’re talking about potential only, and we know that in real life, full potential is hardly ever reached. I’d love to see more PT in tournaments top8s.

I wouldn't say PT is as mentally draining as you say because all three of them have very simple game plans.

Coming back to this video, I can definitely say more than once I've used Side B as Squirtle when I wanted Razor Leaf, and same as Charizard. There's times I've done up B when wanting vine whip as well as the wrong pokemon. I OCCASIONALLY get mixed up but thats out of raw frustration at my opponent reading my every move. (I have one guy I play with who's infinitely better and genuinely doesn't seem to think about what he does but just plays so perfectly as a majority of the roster, but he mains Roy and Ganondorf.)

As a PT main, I really appreciate you addressing this! I think that you made a really great point about their disadvantage state, they all suffer greatly and their options feel easier to bait and punish then most top/high tiers. But I disagree with PT being a difficult character. I think that they have some of the easiest 30-40 percent combos to pull off, and that one of the hardest things to do with them is squirtle’s jab locks which isn’t too hard. Switching between damage dealing, into Zoning and Kill confirming, into baiting and raw killing, feels pretty intuitive. I think PT’s biggest problem that made them decline is that most of the top tiers can handle all 3 Pokémon very well. Pika, joker, peach, palu, wolf, I don’t think have to revolutionize their game plan to handle each individual Pokémon. And switching Pokémon off stage is easy to punish when you are squirtle especially. I think the top 10 keep Pokémon trainer out comfortably in the 20-10 position. None of the Pokémon ever feel safe from getting KO’d, mostly cause squirtle is light, Ivy is Surprisingly light, and you’re often charizard at higher percent. I also think Ness, Luigi, and Game and Watch all do well against PT. Due to all that I think most player’s eventually realize that whatever secondary they try and pick up to cover PT’s weaknesses, are usually just an out right better character. Just my opinion, you are the best for making this, thank you!

I used to love pokemon trainer but i liked the older charazard that had bouldersmash it was a great counter and could time to block attacks was just amazing its such a shame they never expanded it to have added more pokemon and chose your lineup instead.

brawler era? bro I don't even play smash, but still enjoy ur vids hahah

great video can't wait for the meta knight video

I main PT cause I love Pokémon and they’re the coolest character to me personally. I love the Kanto starter line and charizard is so fun to use as well as the other two . They’re difficult to use forsure but when I use them I genuinely feel like a Pokémon trainer . I get hype just switching all throughout matches and changing my play style up randomly to throw my opponents off . If need be , I will choose the best for a hard to overcome matchup and strictly stick to that mon but I find myself being flexible enough with all three after so much playtime and training with the three of them .

What's the music playing throughout the vid?

I guess I’m drawn to the complex characters because I’ve mained Bayo for quite a while and now I’ve switched to Pokémon Trainer. I wouldn’t say that PT has the worst profits for all the effort it takes to master them. I think of characters like Ken and Ryu and maybe Ice Climbers who take a ton of work and then are just as good as a simple character but I do get what you’re saying.

I was just thinking "yo wouldn't it be cool if Vars made a video about Pokemon Trainer" like an hour ago lmaoo Nice!

This one is painful for me. By far one of my top 3 favorite characters in the game. I’m glad there is still some good representation of Pt with Quidd, DDee, Beast, etc out there. But they have still fallen far compared to the early days of Ultimate. Maybe PT will return to relevance one day Also, great music for this video! Pokémon Coliseum music is always a treat to hear

I think a good solution might be to have special inputs that allow for a reverse swap to the previous pokemon. Would make the other forms more accessible without beong a huge power increase

Once upon a time, my main was Charizard and Cloud's up-air was really good.

I mean I still love playing as Pokémon Trainer and Bowser JR Brawl-Ultimate But I do primarily use Squirtle and use Ivysaur and ChArizard as a backup for combos or certain attacks

The Pokémon Colosseum music was a nice choice. Fun game.

As someone who used to main Pokemon Trainer, there's one other big problem. These characters have NOTHING to deal with zoning. The only one with the neutral to combat zoners is Ivysaur and Ivysaur is the worst at approaching. Squirtle can slip by, but you're at the mercy of guessing what the opponent will do. Charizard is too big and his approach is really obvious, so that's that.

Completely understand all of your points and I agree. Im still gonna main PT though just because Ive had the most fun with the pokemon of any other characters in the game. And who can so to a solid Ivysaur spike?? 🤣

I mean Leffen also stopped playing Ultimate. He also had a very good PT and nearly got on the PGR with the character. Likely as a result of not getting on though it killed his motivation to play and he started focusing back on Melee.

just finished the yelan video for more goated video from vars

I have been a huge fan of Pokemon my whole life and Smash since Melee. I've played the melee roster a million times over growing up but lost the game cartridge in my late teens (top 10 anime betrayals) and finally own Smash Ultimate. I love this game so much ive always been obsessive over stuff like frame data even though I was never particularly good- I just thought it was so cool and its carried into my adult life as a special interest I can now obsess over again. My biggest problem as a player was sticking to one character....so i kind of half - 3/4 learned the entire roster without having a main - until friends had Brawl/Project M and I became a Luigi main immediately. He doesn't feel the same in Ultimate though and I've been playing the roster again trying to find a main and I stumbled onto Pokemon Trainer yesterday - and man I have not had this much fun since I first found out about Luigi Down-Taunt. This is the perfect character for me to nerd out with, and there's enough variety to fit each of my favored playstyles (B&P/Heavy go brr) and learn another (edge guarding/grab game). The only thing I'm missing now is item sniping - but i can settle for Squirtle Side-B because that dmg immunity is so fun to mess around with and he just becomes the projectile. Perfect Video - all the more reason to give PT some love

Would love to see a Meta Knight video. He was easily the most popular character in Brawl and not many people play him in Ultimate.

I feel like many of the top players dropped PT after the ivysaur nerfs. 1.0 ivysaur was over turned with down air spike box, razor leaf shield damage, down throw to up B sweet spot killing at 70 to 90%. Most players barely used the other two and would win with just ivy alone. Luckily they gave some love to charizard which helped to balance them all better after the nerfs... at least.

I’ve always switched between Pokémon because I loved taking advantage of the different strategy they offer. Squirtle is quick and his water gun helps keep opponents away while you do quick damage if you can get close, Ivysaur helps do extra damage while being able to take some hits and then Charizard does the big damage.

What is the website he used at 1:07

will the goat reply?? great video as always vars!!

The character I JUST DROPPED. Can u do one for Pichu, the one I dropped PT for?

You know, I’m noticing a running theme of every character in this series and even Why Everyone Plays having bad disadvantage. Are there any characters with _good_ disadvantage in this game?

I miss rocksmash. It gave charizard landing options, super armor and dealt tons of damage. They killed him when they removed it

I tried it I played Ivysaur when the game started and then kept dying when thrown offstage Also shouts to the Cipher Peon theme from Colosseum Miror B’s themes would have been nice in Smash

Really surprised you haven’t done a chrom one yet, like he was looked at as the best sword character at the start of this game

that pokemon colosseum music 👌

Been my main since brawl they're definitley top 5 most fun to play

Pt isn’t even bad it’s just the Meta shifted away from them

Remember when Quidd won Lets Make Big Moves and PKMN Trainer’s stock skyrocketed for a little bit?

I am getting back into smash competitive I’m gonna start maining him n iceys

I play PT for fun every so often, but only for Charizard. I have yet to try and learn the other two.

Can you do one about king dedede, whether it’s playing or not playing Wanna hear your educated opinion

Still miss playing Charizard solo. Had him replaced with Incediroar as my casual go to.

There's also one more reason. PT gets a LOT out of grabs, combos and kills. It gets to the point where mid-level players get so used to grabbing it becomes a bad habit, and even higher up - you can see it even in the mentioned game of Leo vs Tweek. I've mained PT since day 1, I defintely fell into this trap myself and I see the shortcoming of the character, and whenever I go ahead and play other characters I do tend to go for a lot of grabs myself (which ironically becomes an upside to my Roy and Fox). They also lack the typical mixup of landing with an aerial and using a ground move afterwards (aside from squirtle), charizard in general doesnt have safe aerials so his gameplay is callout heavy. Great video

I honestly kinda wish that Charizard was still available to play as its own character (with Rock Smash instead of switching out). I enjoyed playing him in Smash 4, even without the other two.

I don’t think PT is as exhausting as a character like Sheik. I actually don’t even think Ivysaur or Charizard is that difficult in terms of character mastery. But the part about character matchups is a very good point.

Are you really forgetting that Ultimate also removed Type Effectiveness for Pokémon Trainer, which heavily buffed Ivysaur?

It's not Friday why is there a new video today?

You should make a video for byleth, I feel like I don’t see a lot of them except for people who play the character for two seconds because they wanna be like mkleo

have avoided pokemon trainer since his first launch, but recently tried and like they way ivysaur plays. Other two i dont play as much, but i should practice more :).

I am a Shulk main who subs 20+ characters. Including Pokemon Trainer

My number one change i would add to pokemon trainer would be to make it so if you B-Reverse down-B, you would cycle through the pokemon the opposite way. I think that would be pretty cool.

Even though I don’t play as any Pokémon I think the trio should have had 4 specials, and the switch being an out of the box input like L+R like it was for Lighting’s paradigms in Dissidia

You need to make a Kazuya video!!!

What is "threat bubble"?

Day 2 of asking to do a series of buffs and nerfs you'd do for each character