Hmmm - I joined the SCA in 1981, I was 30. I was able to DO things like walk, put up a tent, bend over. sigh. I got old. But that's NOT what made me leave, its why I don't come back. I left because of the complete artificiality of the culture. Not the medieval part - the asshat part. I had achieved peerage and all my social interactions became about THAT. My husband was Tuchux. When we moved,he wrote the local marshall asking about locations of fighter practice among other things. I learned later that the group actually had a meeting about "what to do about the barbarian moving in". Apparently there was fear based solely on rumor and reputation. Then we came to our first meeting and suddenly he was 'Mister Laurel' (and was introduced as such)! He quit that night. On the other hand, I experienced suck-up to the n-th degree. There was, I admit, a huge degree of culture shock. We moved from the east to Texas. My favorite event experiences were colllegiums, balls, holiday feasts...INDOORS. I just could not adjust to a group that revolved around camping, in 100 degree heat, with fire ants and scorpions. There was a job which was to go to a site the day before and treat it for fire ants. Eww If we had a do-over we would have come in complete anonymity to get the lay of the social dynamic of the group - THEN quit. The cliques were ferocious. These were mean, back-biting people with no socialization. It could have been a bowling league or pee-wee football for all they wanted anything to do with the Middle Ages. Go camping and hit each other with sticks while munching sausages. Nope.
haha love your perspective. I've only gone to three or four events casually and the best parts are the dancing and feasts. I can't imagine getting involved in all of the cliques.
I loved the SCA; after 7 years thru HS & College in the Barony of 3 Rivers, ending in 1978, My job dictated that I not go to meetings or events anymore. I was a fiddler who played for feasts & dances. Our garb was primitive; Freon can helms, hockey gloves & carpet armor under bath towels joined at the shoulders. There was a fellow whose persona was an Elizabethan gentleman; he is was a tailor so his outfits were outstanding. I was an early Briton & my best robe was a silky curtain green stripe & snugged st the waist with a wide laced belt. The feasts were a blast: we borrowed the church kitchen one day & baked bread for an army. We went to Wars & camped with our friends, one time the rains came & flooded us out. It was lots of fun & I learned so much!
#1 completely agree, #2 i never really cared about but i found i got along more with the other groups i would only meet up with at events because of the travel. Made me not want to attend practice or meetings and you just drift away.
Sometimes things happening in RL just get to be too much, and we have to take a break whether we want to or not... Raised my kids in the SCA, but drifted. After my husband died, some of the joy was lost. Now, it's just timing and location keeps me from playing as I'd like. Getting older and limited mobility is another issue.
LMFAO! Then they flip around and say some shit like, "You shouldn't be doing this to seek recognition". -- Oh, I'm sorry I'm not a paragon of virtue, capable of denying every single basic BIOLOGICAL instinct... Not even human instinct, but BIOLOGICAL, meaning it's a personality trait that has such a long evolutionary history that it's literally founded in an era of time where reptiles and mammals diverged from one another. Placing it as such a strong instinctual trait that it's lasted throughout a majority of LIFE'S existence on this planet. But ya sure... I don't deserve recognition, because after 10 years of not getting it, I went searching for it with real effort.
I started in 2012. I loved it. It was great! My husband (now my ex) exposed me to the SCA. I was getting involved mostly behind the scene, and did have good exposure among "the top peers". I even met the first female knight (white belt and all). She is a wonderful person. As the years progressed, my ex began to show his true colors to me and to everyone else. He really disliked a lot of the peers because of "whatever" even to the point he believed they disliked him. Well, his beliefs were coming true. He was disliked by not only the peers, but just about everyone. I was dragged into his dilemma. There were only a few people that realized I was not that way, but there were people that still thought of me as bad as him. So, it was the politics within the local baronies/kingdom personal and scadian. I have switched kingdoms and I feel welcomed within this new kingdom. Funny thing, one friend in my previous kingdom told me not to play if I move into the new kingdom I am in due to the new kingdom does not like anyone from my previous kingdom. I told my new kingdom what kingdom I was from, and they still welcomed me with open arms. I am getting up in age and have a few problems getting around, but I will keep participating until I can't get around anymore. I could go on but this is the basics of things I have experienced.
Politics... that's why I left. The cliques that naturally form and the personal political maneuvering to be granted a rank is astronomical in the SCA. People who work their butts off, but are not favorites of the group seldom receive the rank or recognition they deserve. I love the history, the aesthetics, the crafting and sheer artistry the SCA inspires. But honestly, I can get the same from cosplay or LARP events with more artistic freedom and less politics for a much more satisfying event.
Been a member since the mid 80's, missed 1 Pennsic in the last 35 years also. It is not the same any longer. The core group of people who created and moved things along have for the most part died off one way or another. Politics at both the household and kingdom level have really restricted awards or advancement unless you are one of "them". If you are not a fighter, you are looked down upon, if you are a merchant making your own stuff you are not given awards because you sell your work, if you do not know the proper people or jump through the proper hoops you DO NOT EXIST. Add in the fact that it is an older crowd in a era where younger people just want "boomers" to go away and that does not help as we get younger members who want to take over and many older members have a death grip on control refusing to allow it. In my opinion the SCA may be dying to a point, will be interesting to see what happens when Covid ends and we can have events again. How many will return, how many older members will have passed or no longer be able to make it, and how many groups will lose their sites for events or no longer be able to afford them?
I have been playing since 1985, And this is so true. I have enough awards over the decades to count on one hand plus a couple. And I suspect that is all I will ever get. And I am writing this as my article for CA is being edited. I do this because I love history. Not politics.
Keep up the good work. This touches on a subject that more of us in the SCA need to be aware of. I'm with you. Still playing...but many of the things you have said here are very close to my own experience. Natasha
It used to be about fun and being CREATIVE (it is part of the name you know) - now it is a few people pushing their own idea of fun on everyone else. Let people have the fun they want and don't dictate what people should wear or do while they are at events.
@@ironwolfgaming9632, What can people who are currently in the SCA do to help prevent fun spoiling? What do we keep an eye out for? What kind of help would be welcome and what should be avoided?
Thank you all for validating my 12 yr experience with this organization. The only time in my life I've been threatened with physical harm was from a fellow member of my local group. The trouble came from an intimate relationship but the threat was supported by the group. The condition was that if I ever attended another event, I wouldn't leave under my own power. Our relationship issues weren't the SCA's business. That shows you how dysfunctional this group of people can be. My other validation is from comments on 'tin hats and white belts'. After a few years, I saw that the sole priority of SCA culture was based on obtaining those two things. Everyone spent all of their time, talent, money and energy on 'shmoozing' and kissing the right behinds to get the awards and titles. For something that is completely imaginary. Complete made up out of thin air back in the 1970's for a costume theme party. For anyone doing a dissertation on the definition of a 'counter culture', this is it.
I left a long time ago because I did not show a serious enough commitment to the SCA as a lifestyle. I have a hard time taking anything in this world seriously and this pisses people off who do take it seriously. People who occupy the highest levels of kingdom offices don't have much use for clowns and this is understandable. I tried coming back a few years ago in another kingdom and due to my age the energy needed to start over again was overwhelming. I attend events every now and then and a few people know who I am now, but I am not sure if I can get excited about playing again. I'm too old.
And that's just it! You stayed grounded and realized what it was. A game. Nothing wrong with that. But I can definitely see why the snooty attitudes of people who take it far too seriously would be offputting.
I heavily participated in Michigan from 1980s til 2006 moved to the south east , got excited to join down here, worse experiences in my life, predatory even in some situations, and was very toxic environment so I haven't since.
I live in South Carolina; I’m really interested in getting into this- I love to sew, I love history, I love learning and teaching (I only learned of SCA’s existence last week) but I’ve now heard _several_ things that make me a bit…. unsure about the whole thing now…
@@Neddoest If you go to an event, just treat it as any other large venue with a variety of people. Some will be friendly because that's their nature. Some will be friendly because they want something from you. Some will be grumpy and some will be unkind. But for the most part, new people are treated well because you're shiny-new. Trust your gut-instincts when it comes to people and you'll be fine. Your group might be good. Good groups ARE out there despite all of us on this post. We are relaying personal experiences, but they are just that... personal. I hope you find a good group of people, though. Because when you find your Household - your found family - it can be magical. Just beware of individuals as you would in any new situation and you'll be fine.
I participate in the Midrealm, up in Michigan. I'm soooo glad that I don't feel any of the pressure to be "perfect" that led Lilah to feel all of that anxiety. I'm lucky to be surrounded by a lot of super talented people in various fields that are also super open to reality that everybody plays at a different level. Honestly, any pressure I might have is coming straight from my own head and my own expectations. And I feel that a little bit of pressure to keep seeking quality and improvement in the stuff I make (and also my fencing and music skills) is actually a good thing. If you ever get to an "I don't give a fuck" place with this game, then it's time to just back away and find a new hobby.
Another Michigander here. I dropped out due to a Baron who embarrassed me in front of the entire camp during Pennsic rather than to talk to me about the problem privately. I keep wanting to join back in but I'm scared that people will remember or that something similar will happen again. I'm kind of a dumb @$$ so me doing something stupid again is likely lol
The reason I left was because I was unfairly banished for 2 reigns by my X & my X best friend, who married my X. I was innocent of any crime/rules broken but what the Crown wants the Crown gets 😢😡🤬😢😡🤬😢😡🤬 When I did return to a few events after my banishments I was treated differently & some of my old friends/family would have nothing to do with me ...siding with my X in the divorce 😥 This isn't the usual reason ppl leave the SCA but it is my experience 😥😥😥
Not a member but it sounds like the SCA members have to let a lot of the "authentic" stuff that effects peoples health and comfort go. Like just normalize RV camping. Mabey make it a new fun project of creating a façade to put around and over your RV, camper or vehicle.
I have been in the SCA for 26 years, wow I had to count that up and it seems long, but I know many have been in much longer. I have also lived in three different kingdoms and been in six different local groups (military rat, you guessed it). I have to totally agree with this video and I appreciate those whom boldly created it. It is true that many, probably most SCA people have nothing but the best hearts and really go out of their way to meet new people and make them welcome. But sadly, and too often I have seen those who have been given privilege, and more blatantly their entourage really marginalize others. I always bow to royalty, but I have also explained many times that "they" are royalty because we want them to be, not because they actually are better some how. This is why we term everyone as lord or lady at a minimum. we want all participants to feel part of the game. Onward.
To be fair calling everyone a Lord or Lady (or whatever) kind of diminishes the value of receiving an 'award of arms'. I means what's the point of saying that it "Bestows the title of Lord/Lady." if anyone can use that? Perhaps the practice is different from Kingdom to kingdom. --- Also, in the modern world we generally treat the leaders of various nations with considerably more deference than other people and sometimes have formal titles and procedure even though they are the leaders "because we want them to be". It's certainly true that various leaders in myriad times and places have demonstrated the width and breadth of human behavior good and bad, but routinely disrespecting and disregarding them eventually degrades the office/position itself even if it was directed at an individual.
@@jnharton because it's courtesy. We assume everyone to be of nobility in order to not offend. It's been done this way for generations. Literally. I was at Pennsic V. Were you even born yet?
Anachronism. Something out of place in time. Authenticity? It has it's place but it has NOTHING to do with what the founders envisioned. You want to use stretch velvet because it's cheaper. Have at. You want machine embroidery instead of bleeding finger tips? Have at. You want to serve your favorite pot roast? Have at. You want to bully people by constantly declaring "that's not period?" Then please remember that declaration is not period. It's okay to just wear pretty clothes and view fighting and other going -on. From Duke Sir Fredrick of Holland (one of the founding fathers back in Berkeley), The Middle Ages: NOT as they were, but as they SHOULD have been. I bid thee joy and hope.
These videos are super useful. I remember going to ren fair and checking out the armor and blacksmiths, two different groups approached me and asked if i was curious. Both wanted me to fight, mostly due to my height and stance. All i want to do is fight and cook food from that era, which just makes me want to stick with watching events.
I agree the food is excellent! I have not played in over 8 years, but every now and again I get the pull to go to a feast event, and do some archery. But I know I will arrive to the event happy with anticipation and leave depressed. This is what happened often when I use to participate in the SCA, too many toxic people.
My original shire (wyndhaven in ansteorra) died decades ago due to our small size and personal dynamics. Fought alongside a few other shires and baronies over the years, however age and injuries brought that to an end. I was always a heavy weapons fighter, never interested in the politics.
I started in the SCA in1978. I don't really now. Mainly because I don't drive and can't travel to events. I used to be very active in running events and teaching but when I moved to a new place, well the people there were not so welcoming. I was even Seneschal of one of the cantons for a few years, but recognition was thin on the ground and help wasn't really welcomed. I also stopped fighting in the early 90s and even still everything seems to just revolve around the tourneys. ZZZZ I miss it and would return in a sec but it is what it is...
@@Nikita4ever7000 Fairly stated but where I live now is no man's land (unclaimed zips) and please don't say start a group, I've done that 3xs and no longer have the energy.
Perhaps it's time to consider at a Society level what we can do to increase the participation and improve the experience for older people and people with limited mobility. The first step, of course, would be asking them for their ideas and input.
@Aaron Foreman "Cut back on the authenticity Karen's" = 100% agree. Nicer term than "Authenticity N@zi" but carries the full weight of the problem. The SCA used to be fun. Now it's a competition to see who can be most "period correct". Somewhere along the way of getting their 501c, the Society forgot this isn't a living history group. They forgot the "Creative" part of the name. The SCA was founded by a bunch of nerds who wanted to get together, dress up a little, and have FUN going camping or beating on their buddies, then share drink afterwards. We need to return to the creative roots of the group if it's to survive.
I rejoined in 2012 and am thinking of leaving simply because I have to fight to do anything. I am a trained herald but not allowed in my shire to do heraldry. I have never had a mentor in the game to learn from either.
Sounds like a lot of the issues you experience are your issues and would manifest with any social club. We're your goals and expectations unhealthy? I do agree about setting up camp to some.
I loved my time in the SCA when I was young. Many decades later I moved to a new kingdom and tried to pick up the Society again. After five years of trying I'm ready to call it quits. The biggest problem has nothing to do with the Society. It is that when you reach a certain age you're just not that open to making new friends. You are reluctant to put yourself out there and most of the people your age have a group of friends they like hanging out with Unless something really extraordinary happens, well, I am wasting my time. Whatever talent I had there are 6 or 7 people who do it better than I ever will. It's time to go. I have nothing to add to the society now.
My mother got our family into the Kingdom of AnTir way back in the 90s. Egils out near Fern Ridge Reservoir and May Crown were always fun events, because it was camping with plenty of friends. It helped at the time a lot of the people we knew lived within a few miles from home, and my mother was always one of the lead scribes who loved to put big events together. There were no social expectations at the time, just fun adults who wanted to unwind and enjoy themselves, who also happened to have a ton of kids between them. As an adult, the last thing I went to just showed me the horror that it became. I was surrounded by drunk college dropouts who couldn’t hold down a job, who turned every nightly party into a muddy, disgusting, drunken orgy, and couldn’t just relax. SCA camping isn’t for everyone, but my father was the inventor/prepper sort, so we always did very well on a budget. However, as the group got more crazy, we spent more weekends riding dirt bikes or camping with our neighbors and taking the boat out.
Egil's!!!! I met my wife at Egil's Tourney! Used to be a dedicated player, as well as one of the most notorious Bards in An-Tir. Problem occurred when I had to start working weekends. That pretty well screws things up. After I got out of *that* job, it started being issues of time and money to travel to tourneys. Now we've got the time, but money is tight, plus, we're pretty old and tired now. As much as I'd love to get back into things, well. We keep hoping. I'd love to get back to a Bardic Circle.
I feel like slave labor and it sucks that people with less time in...have had better opportunities... plus I feel like every one in the middle kingdom hates me and are just civil..
I left because of politics. Real world politics getting involved made me walk away. No politics from real world should be involved. That's how it use to be and how it should have stayed. Love the barony of smoking rocks those are my people.
What if I wanted to play as man? Could I do that if I wanted to? I _love_ sewing (and wearing pretty dresses) but I also love kicking ass and taking names. I have so many questions and things to learn… I think if the answer is “no, there isn’t any space for LGBTQ+ in SCA” then I’m definitely out.
These are some of my questions and concerns. Though I have seen other videos from various parts of the ‘known world’ and it looks to be that there is a place for girls who wish to fight like men, sometimes even with men but also in separate events (ie female only) and there was one video I saw just now from I’ll just say the PNW area (Oregon coast) that we’re talking about etiquette and asking pronouns but haven’t specifically found anything explicitly ‘gay-friendly’ or otherwise (however you wanna put it).
Generally, Yes, you can play as a man. That really depends on your group, though. While you can be whomever you want, it helps if the group in your local area are supportive. The locals will make or break your experience. But there are loads of women who have male personas, and there is (or was back when I played) a group called The Iron Rose that was comprised exclusively of women fighters.
I'm a curious person.. so I like to see the good and bad. I just want to dress period, learn how to shoot bows.. so you talking to about the cons is helpful in deciding on if I want to splurge on it.
six month newbie and I know these are older videos so you prob won't see my comments but I will prob never make it to big events because of issues made on the newbie video. the reason why Im staying at the present moment is that I enjoy the fibre side of the SCA.... but when I finally chose my "name" i got the comment... how did you get it or choose it and was it used back then... Hell I don't know and really don't care if it was used back then even though I looked and found it under a baby naming site under "old Norse" FUCK! its only a name and no-one presently was alive back then so who cares. Solvi is a norse viking sounding name so who really gives a fuck? Then its the coat of arms or device or are they different? 6 months to get something that looks medieval approved? what junk is that about? Yet again who really gives a fuck? Im there to have fun. Sew up garb. do archery. weave, learning lucet, maybe have a go at nail biding, learn about my Norse heritage a bit.... and yes my ancestors are Norweigen I have photos from my dads side of the family dating back to the 1800s in Norway. And I was told I couldn't use my family name of Gausel as it was a "real life name?" agggh! so yea the politics suck! I have quite a lot of garb already because I sew. but also Im a cosplayer so if I do leave after a year I will still be able to use my garb to cosplay events as a viking. lol because of "vikings series." just say Im one of the background characters. lol infact I have been modelling most of my gear from that program just in case. Or if I don't like something I put it in the newbie loner garb bag. It won't be unused for long.
I'm glad you stopped by and shared with us. Not being able to use your own last name because it was a "real life name" is asinine. You should be able to use it. It's Norwegian and it clearly exists because IT'S YOUR NAME! -Stelios
Like someone already said if you don't like how things are run don't join. Groups or Clubs should Not have to Cater to Your whims because you are Offended that you actually have to work or research your character's background. You come from a Generation where they think the World revolves around them and if they don't get what they want right Now they know that all they have to do is throw a temper tantrum like a baby, scream and pound their fists into the ground and they get it. I'd rather see the SCA Die than to have people like you get your way.
WolfSong Homestead you can, depending on your persona. Do some research regarding where your perona is from. Really dig in there. You may br surprised.
Wear pants! Wear all the pants! I mean jeans are probably not going to work but you can wear boys garb, or Venetian courtesan (they wore breeches for the scandal), or Persian. There are lots of great options and it's best to have garb you are comfortable in.
You can, it's the SCA, there are no checks or balances for authenticity. Hell, wear a Klingon or an Elf costume if you like (I've seen both, and worse) and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
Well as one of those newbies, I joined in 2015, and was in the West Kingdom, but found that attempting to dress as a persona was a bit hard, especially in trying to find clothing for my part as someone in whatever century. I also found that trying to find a personna was no inclusive (Transgender, female, Mongol, etc) was not even in the directory, why are there only certain kingdoms and shires, barony's, and whateever, when the real ancient days had many more kingdoms, shires, baronies, etc? So I stopped going, plus like you said it it expensive, However in 2022 I once again decided to rejoin, which I did, but now I find that I'm more interested in being someone in another culture, such as Japanese, Chinese, or Mongol, and why are we limited to a European ideal that does not meet any other culture? I'm sure Marco Polo if alive woud say 'NOT", since in the 1600's he did go to China. So, in reality, the SCA is kind of a self-limiting kingdom, run by a group of people who haven't really had much experience inthe world, and do not know about world history. I'm Filipino, and is there a Filipno kingdom where they ousted the Spanish? Probably not, but until I find a group that accepts other cultures and their way of doing so, then the SCA can sit on the sidelines and watch history really come alive.....
My old barony had a wonderful MTF Native American woman who played as an Algonquin warrior. Her presentation and clothing were amazing. Be who you want to be. You just have to be strong enough to do it for yourself if the people in your group don't like it.
Hi John, it sounds like you had an AWFUL experience in the SCA. I'm really sorry. You're right we have some bad apples and some bad policies. Do you have any suggestions on ways we can improve 'from the ground up'?
I too have seen the very things you ever-so-succinctly named. Vicious internecine politics, status-whoring, and award-chasing became more the norm in the local branch, so when Saturdays became work-days, I didn't complain.
I joined in 1978,in 1987 I started traveling on the road for my job so I didn't play for a long time. When I went back about 10 years later it was not the SCA I knew. Some of the original members were still there but new members seemed to have missed the part of the rules that say its open to EVEYONE they had turned it into their own little social club they ignored the people they didn't like , two of the founders stayed for spite as did I . the girl in charge of fencing didn't want me to fight her or her friend because they said I was "too aggressive" unlike them I had formal training. I stopped going for a while again due to illness in the family and the next time I went back was worse there were some new people that were selling drugs at meetings and events and carrying on other illicit activities ,this has been cleaned up I was told .I have moved 1400 miles away so I am going to give it one more chance but I wont hold my breath.
If you don't like what they do and how they do it, then it's not for you. You can't walk in someone's house and tell them how to live. You can't walk in someone's house and do as you please and expect them to do as you say.
That's just it. It's not "their house" its "our house" as in ALL OF US. This is a community. And if I, as your neighbor, tell you that what you are doing is bad and bad for the community and other people tell you the same thing (this is the proverbial you. Not you as in "Carmen Peters") then you should probably assess your behavior and ask yourself if the people telling you have a valid reason to believe what they do.
Oh Now a day you can. Just like certain people took over the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I stopped buying Girl Scout Cookies the day the Communists took them over.
@@SteliosandLilah I would add to this that while it is a community, the fact that it IS the community's house often means that the majority will decide about what they do and how they do it. And any individual by themselves, whilst part of the community, may well be in the minority or even entirely alone. Also a community can /change/ for better or worse, depending on who the members are like and how they choose to be. Under the right circumstances a "noisy" subgroup can effectively cause people to leave over discomfort and shift the nature of the community. Tangentially, the overall environment can be healthy or unhealthy at any given point in time. ---- In the hypothetical situation presented one could be a jerk and the others could be rightly telling you off OR they could be jerks and then one would just have to decide where the line is in the sand.
@@SteliosandLilah While it is "our house", every club comes with rules or terms or requirements that members supposedly accept when they join. If those rules aren't acceptable for the person, they shouldn't be joining. Seeing as the SCA was formed with an appreciation towards the Medieval Age, trying to recreate it, unfortunately if you, as a woman, don't like to wear skirts, dresses or similar long garbs, you either pick your persona to be a man, or realize that recreating the Medieval Ages isn't for you. But maybe LARPing, RenFairing and such activities would give you the proper fun you are looking for, while wearing pants! I think there's a club out there for everyone.
Totally right about priorities. A choice between paying rent or going to an event? Find a cheaper place to live...lol. I'm perfectly happy sleeping in my truck...perhaps a camper for winter. The 'Period Police' can go pound sand! My reply is 'Duct tape isn't Period', and walk away. Don't like how the SCA is structured? Start your own group, make your own rules. Eventually you will sit with Kings as an equal, not as a subject. (Great Dark Horde) Remember: Pillage first, then Burn...lol.
Well, calling it a game is the problem with you two. It's not a game. It's a life. As for "getting things right," that was apparently a new thing. Back in the 80's and 90's the fun mavins and authenticity mavins were more live and let live. Sounds like the kids telling me I gm D&D wrong because I don't do it the way Matt Mercer does. Calling for ADA compliance? My dad has been in a wheelchair for 30 years and still went to events. STOP CALLING IT A GAME!!
Luis R. Rondon. Former "king" of the East. Used a framing hammer to crush the skull of his mistress but stopped halfway through the clean up so he could get to his next event.
@@77wolf89 I did do a search on him. It is such a sad story in regards to Deborah. I hope that the SCA honored her memory in some way. I was able to find Luis de Castilles' (aka Luis Rondon) coronation picture it still shows up in the Kingdom of the East's past event file, also found some fighter videos starring that creep. The Webministers should scrub that narcissists' existence from the SCA.
