Why People LOVE Luke Skywalker And HATE Rey 

Without training, talent means nothing . -Luke Skywalker

REY: I am just so strong. I am the granddaughter of a Palpatine. Luke: I am the Grandson of the Force itself. Rey:...............

I would like to point out that Luke BARELY got his lightsaber and freed himself before Wampa charged at him. If he had taken even a second longer, it would have torn him apart before he got up from the drop. And he was only in that situation because he was surprised by the Wampa in the first place, because he hadn't fully developed his Force Awareness abilities.

The reason Luke being able to destroy the Death Star makes sense is because they spend the whole movie hyping up that he’s a great pilot. As for him using force pull, he has had some training and it’s been three years since episode IV. It’s not out of the question that he has learned some stuff. The difference between Luke and Rey’s first force pull, Rey’s force pull over powered Kylo’s. Luke struggled greatly to pull the lightsaber to him without any obstacles. (Until the Wampa starts paying attention.)

First movie Luke was a nobody farm kid with absolutely no training or knowledge of the force and couldn’t use a lightsaber or the force in the first episode, in Empire he was a little better but still was inexperienced in both lightsaber combat and force (keep in mind the battle of hoth was a year after Yavin) he lost against Vader and in the process lost a hand. In episode 3 which is another year later I believe after Hoth and he finally was adjusted with the force and lightsaber skill enough to hold his own against Vader. Rey just immediately had knowledge of the force and lightsaber skill in the first movie. Anakin also had to go through years of training and still lost to Dooku with ease and he’s the chosen one.

I know it's nothing but a passing line from the movie, but Luke had a T-16 Skyhopper which would give him the piloting skills he would need in an X-wing. Plus, he had the skills to take the shot from hitting womp rats. So, one of the Mary Sue moments for Luke is justified and explained, thus invalidating it.

I think the “flawed moments” you talked about are not that flawed because Luke had been training to become a pilot and had experience flying. Also I think that him pulling the lightsaber was also hinting at his true power and you can see that he struggles with pulling it.

I was among those who thought Finn was going to be the next Jedi, not some random scavenger. I remember buying TFA and Finn having the lightsaber.

Luke has failed. Easiest thing in the world to point out. Was he able to save his aunt and uncle on Tatooine? No. Was he able to fend off that first attack by the Sand People? No. Was he able to instantly know how to work the Millennium Falcon? No. Was he able to turn off the garbage smashers on the detention level by himself? No. Was he able to instantly convince Han to pilot an X-Wing to fly with the Rebels? No. Would he have just been able to solo the whole Death Star trench run? No. I could go on, but that is just ANH alone. He expresses anger and impatience on Dagobah, gets reckless on Cloud City and looses his hand in the process. He gets tempted by the Dark Side on the Second Death Star. Luke is human. He acts human. He has flaws. He has to spend three movies learning how to use the Force. He grows and evolves into his own Hero's journey. Rey is just handed everything she needs on a platter. And she suffers from inconsistent writing and SJW syndrome. I could sit here and defend Luke and not turn off the garbage smashers on the detention level for the Rey defenders.

Rey is more of Mary Sue than the actual namesake. At least the original Mary Sue graduated Star Fleet.

To the point of Luke Skywalker blowing up the Death Star, in the battle of Yavin we see first hand how Luke isn't used to the X-wing yet. Luke in the battle confusingly mentions "My scopes negative I don't see anything" to then Red Leader's response "Pick up your visual scanning." This showcases how Luke isn't used to the ship's design yet. Luke doesn't have the skill to out manoeuvre a Tie fighter pilot either, so Wedge has to save his life. We also know that Luke is "the best pilot in the outer rim territories" stated by his friend Biggs. He piloted a T-16 Skyhopper which functionally is very similar to the X-Wing, so it does explain his talent with the ship.

In the Expanded Universe, Luke has a lot of "training", but not traditional training. There are a couple of comics that show him learning stuff out from Obi Wans journal(?), he tried to find a Jedi temple and instead fought for a Hutt that collected Jedi relics to get a Holocron(ended up fighting Vader, for like, 2 minutes before escaping(i think i cant really remember lol)), fought Boba Fett, BLIND, and a whole other crap ton of stuff that i cant remember. So basically, what i'm saying is that in between ANH and ESB, Luke kinda trained himself.

Well Luke’s father was a really good pilot and he is somewhat of a mechanic

Luke had to make a suicidal leap after losing a limb in Episode 5 to avoid being killed by Darth Vadar. A world literally had to deus-ex-machina break in half to separate Rey from her prey in Episode 7 to keep her from murdering the Kylo Ren. One of these two scenarios leaves room for growth and character development. One of these is a fan-fiction author's power fantasy.

I do want to say about Luke doing things out of his ability. With the taking out the Death Star, he had a background in flying ships already and struggling with trusting the force early with his training, finally does so for the narrative pay off in the final act. The pulling the Lightsaber out of the snow, like I said before, he just *barely* got it to work. He had to really focus on getting that it. While showing he has talent, he does have to hone it.

Rey schooling Han on his own ship was a classic moment. Classic as in its one of the first moments all star wars fans realized this trilogy was going to be insufferable.

Luke did have minimal training from episode IV on the Millenium Falcon. Perhaps just enough to force pull a small lightsaber from the snow. That one isn't a flaw in the story to me.

To add to The Empire Strikes Back, people on both sides are as strong as the people who lead them. The Battle of Hoth is basically Luke Skywalker vs General Veers, and yeah, Luke got shot down while Veers destroyed the shield generator . . . And not before shooting a random Snowspeeder out of the sky (though that would be more thanks to the two AT-AT drivers Edit: And the stupidity of that pilot for flying that close near the AT-AT's chin guns, not only getting himself killed, but his gunner also).

As far as Luke's "Mary Sue" moments go. I gotta bring this up: We're told a few times that Luke's father was an excellent pilot, and he seems to take after his father. The Trench Run is literally the military equivalent of a game he used to play with his friends "Just like Beggar's Canyon back home" where they used to "bullseye wamp rats." Luke's a farmer who knows how to fly. That means he was likely the space equivalent of a crop duster, and as any pilot from WWII knows, crop dusters make some of the best ace pilots around because of how good they have to get at buzzing close to things like trees, and landing their load of fertilizer where it should. Despite all of that, Luke's "one in a million" shot only lands because of space-divine-intervention through the force. The targeting computers obviously couldn't pull it off or the other, more skilled pilots would have. He succeeded not because he was better (despite having a lot of things going for him) but because he learned the lesson: give up control to a higher power. I would agree that him being able to force pull the lightsaber could be a mary sue moment if they literally landed on hoth right after the death star blew up. But it seems from the fact that Han Solo and Skywalker are now "commander solo" and "commander skywalker" that it's been a little while. Luke had a short bit of training where he felt the force with Obiwan. He later had the moment of surrender in the above Trench Run where he'd felt it. I would bet that he has been training, unfortunately by himself, for a year now. The fact that all he's able to do after that year is "struggle to pull a thin mental rod out of the soft snow a foot away" despite his bloodline shows why he needs Yoda so badly. That to me is a moment of "wow, he really does need a teacher" as opposed to a "look how powerful this farmer is." All that said, Yeah Lucas isn't a god, he has botched a lot of stuff. And yes Star Wars does have lots of flaws. I just don't think those two things are among them. I think those were both narratively set up properly. Which is part of what distinguishes a Mary Sue from a skilled hero.

I got a video idea, "TOP 10 SEXIEST JABBA THE HUTT MOMENTS😱😱😱"

I like the stylistic credits in the description, especially after I caught the Critical Drinker "quote," haha

Luke like Superman are aspirational characters. Aspirational aren’t perfect but they strive to be the best and inspirational through their short comings and their victories. But they see the good in others and bring the best in people. You aspire to be like them through their example of goodness, heroism, and selflessness.

I agree completely with everything that was said. I knew Rey was a flawed character but this lays the evidence out. Nice

Especially if you compare the moments. 1 - let the Force guide you. Luke has literally one shot to save the entire galaxy (as far as the rebellion knows), to hit a 2m target he's barrelling towards at 300kph along a narrow trench while under fire. The odds are impossible, but he trusts the force, let's himself be guided by it and the Force does the rest for him. Rey meanwhile uses Jedi mind tricks harder than Grandmaster Obi-Wan after 0 seconds of trying without week long introduction by a Grandmaster, no, in fact never having heard of the Force before. 2 - grow beyond yourself. At this point, Luke has only felt the Force briefly, he doesn't know what all it can do. He wakes up battered and beaten hanging upside down in an ice cave as a Wampa's meal to be. His life is in immediate danger in more than three separate ways and the only thing that could possibly save him is just out of reach. Maybe the Force could help him again? He uses all his concentration to wish for something he doesn't even know if it's possible and against all odds it works! He can pull a 300g lightsaber 10 inches towards him. Rey meanwhile has been introduced to the Force by Luke, managed to lift some pebbles accidentally, so she's about the level Luke would have been on Dagobah. But her friends are in a cave, so she also concentrates real hard and lifts 80tons of rock 15 feet in the air. I think what Star Wars tried to teach us, and everything Disney has gotten wrong from Clone Wars to the sequels and inbetweequels, is that the Force has to be subtle. It's a very weak Force, like gravity, that only feels strong because it scales with mass. If you read about the Force in the old canon, it was a feat of immense strength if you could lift 7 rocks, a few tons each at the same time with just your mind. The seven stones were kept in the heart of the temple. Yoda, being the strongest force user known to history, lifted 6 out of the 7. And you're telling me Rey is not a mary sure when she can lift 12 of those stones by just wishing real hard?

It's cuz Luke Skywalker needed to train on Dagobah to get as powerful as he did. Rey got powerful out of nowhere. You have to earn it. Ahsoka is a character that we love, and she trained in the Jedi temple her whole life, and the training she got from Anakin is why she survived in situations like the one where she got captured by trandoshans.

Pulling a lightsaber to you that's five feet away after having been exposed to preliminary training in the force (and while under duress) and using a Jedi mind trick having ZERO exposure to anything about the force are two worlds apart.

You have to remember something about the X-Wing: it is incredibly simple. Its controls and panels were made with the idea of moisture farmers and backwater gremlins as pilots in mind. Now, Luke was actually very adept with the T-16 Skyhopper, an Airspeeder that was basically an intraorbit ship. He was so good at flying it that he was able to “bullseye womp rats” with it, which is damn good aim. Now here’s the biggest kicker: Incom Corporation is the designer and manufacturer of both the T-16 and the X-Wing, and in Star Wars ship designers often make controls and panels fairly similar across ships and vehicles. So Luke Skywalker, who was already incredibly familiar with an Incom Corporation control schema, was put into another Incom Corp ship, which had its usability made incredibly simple for even the dumbest of pilots to be good at. It’s no wonder he was the greatest X-Wing pilot at the time. Add on an incredibly force instinct brought on by a moment of focus and quick meditation, it makes sense that he was able to make the torpedo shot into the Death Star’s small exhaust port. He is naturally gifted in the force, and although his training was basically nonexistent that talent was enough to get by. However, that is basically where natural talent ends as even Luke himself would express that training is what’s truly important.

The x-wing thing is explained by Luke’s comment of having flown skyhoppers through beggars canyon before, so he has experience flying through narrow paths, and flying through the trench would actually be easier because it’s straight whereas the canyon isn’t

This is why I'm almost certain Abrams ment Rey to be Luke's last remaining student after TFA.

I think a good story they could have told with a character as "perfect" as Rey was letting her win everything for the first part of the movie but also let her fail and lose everything near the end, and could also understund that she isn't perfect. This could have helped her character devolmpent through the story and the sequels

To be fair on the X-Wing part, the company that made it, Incom, also made the T-16 that Luke mentions in the briefing. They're also know for reusing a lot of their control designs, meaning that while there would be differences, Luke probably would have had some familiarity with the controls before hand. Also, in one of the books that came out afterwards, Luke mentions that he was put through a pilot simulator with the X-Wing before they made him a pilot. This is, of course, all stuff that came out after the movie, by some years, but it helps explain somewhat why Luke could fly an X-Wing despite it being his first time.

see the thing is, i didnt hate rey. Not until they intentionally ruined luke to make rey look better than him. Maybe it was lukes first time in an x wing, but we know luke was a great pilot and was training to join the empires academy. In star wars, it's pretty much established that if you can fly one ship, you can basically fly all ships. The Xwings are also an older starship. It's like driving an old nissan. Anybody can do it. Flying the tie fighters wouldve made luke a mary sue. Also the old movies implied time skips. For example, teaming up with han solo then flying to the death star was clarified to have taken a few months. In which during that time luke was training with Ben kenobi. People knew this back in the day. So luke pulling the lightsaber also isnt a mary sue moment. We've already seen him use the force to destroy the death star. On top of that, it was clarified that luke was studying through bens old journal. And the time between episode 4 to episode 5 was like 3 years. So he was training for 3 years already before he pulled the saber from the snow

Okay so, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything. But I'm trying to justify Luke blowing up the Deathstar. He honestly was not gonna be able to make that shot, because the last guy that tried it didn't go in. Yeah, Luke says he used to hit Womp rats that size back home, but I don't think he still would've been able to make that shot, because if he was we never would've had Obi-Wan say, "Use the Force Luke. Let go Luke." Vader even says, "The Force is strong with this one." Obi-Wan begs Luke, "Luke trust me." And Luke turns off his targeting system, choosing to trust in the Force rather than in his own skill. So I believe the Force guided his shot rather than he himself shooting it into the hole. As for Empire Strikes Back, Luke struggled to pull his lightsaber out of of the ice. He couldn't even do it the first time. That's why it was barely moving even though he was really concentrating. Also, I'm sure the sound of the Wampa getting closer added to his adrenaline helping him to consetrate harder. You know, this is what I believe, Yoda says the Force flows through all of us it surrounds us and binds us. So Luke had the Force, but I believe Yoda trained him on how to use it properly. Kinda like how you can be good at something like painting, but still need and actual teacher to get better, whether that be a RU-vid video or an actual person. That's how I believe the Force works, anyone is capable of using it. But having someone teach you how it works allows you to use it more consistently instead of at random moments. That's just my thoughts though😅 Rey was not trained on how to use any of her Force powers. If we're being honest, the only time Luke truly used the Force without training was when he pulled his lightsaber out of the snow that's it. Sure he "Trusted" in the Force in A New Hope, but that's different. Trusting in something and using something are two totally different things😆

I love Return of the Jedi version of Luke Skywalker and Rey so much both of them are my favorite characters in Star Wars universe

The reason why we watch movies and read stories, the reason we've told stories around campfires since before we as mankind could LIGHT a campfire, is because we are trying to figure out how to overcome the challenges of life. Flawed heroes overcome flaws and we cheer for them. Flawed villains give into those flaws, and we boo them. Perfect Mary Sues simply expose the narcissist within the writer, who doesn't know how to write a flawed character either because they don't see any flaws in themselves, or because they want people to think that writing a character with flaws would expose their own. Mary Sues are written by myopic, weak writers who dream of being strong without having to put for the effort to be such.

Seemingly long-forgotten is one of the very first Star Wars expanded universe novels: "Splinter of the Mind's Eye". It was literally written while they were filming Star Wars and it introduces the use of the Force for telekinesis before it had even been shown onscreen. In the novel, Luke and Leia meet an old woman with minor Force abilities, mainly telekinesis of small objects. George seems to have regarded this early novel as a part of his head cannon, and it accounts for Luke at least knowing that the Force could be used that way. Given the *three year* time skip between ANH and ESB, it would not be surprising that Luke spent at least some of that time trying to learn this ability. Contrast Rey, who (due to the lack of a time skip between TFA and TLJ) achieves Jedi *Master* level abilities within *one week* of learning that the Force is real and that she can use it!

The lightsaber pull wasn't that big of a deal. It had been two years since a new hope, and I remember even as a kid back in the 80's thinking that he had probably been practicing. If you go to the EU (Legends OR modern canon), it makes it clear that he was OBSESSED with learning hos to master his abilities, and was constantly practicing specifically learning how to move items (which is probably what most people would be doing, because I have to imagine it's the easiest thing to reliably do). Rey, conversely, pulled off the Jedi mind trick without even having seen anyone doing it, or ever even CONSIDERING it. You're comparing a person doing "Jedi 101" after two years of constant practice to someone doing highly advanced Jedi techniques without a moment of practice doing ANYTHING force-related or even knowing that such a trick EXISTS. Rather disingenuous.

1:11 This could be excused largely because its established that Luke is an amazing pilot (just like his father was as Ben says at the beginning of the movie and like Biggs says during the Death Star briefing) and was planning on joining the Imperial Academy so he could defect to the rebels any way. Granted, we aren't shown this (remember show don't tell amirite?) until he's allowed to join Red Squadron pretty much entirely on the word of his old friends, but it was at least established. He even says that the size of the ventilation shaft they were aiming at was about the same size as a womprat and compares the trench run to Beggar's Canyon.

Because he was a much more interesting character than Rey. We watched him grow from callow farm boy into Master Jedi. Rey was a Master Jedi right from the start. She could use a Mind Trick in TFA. She could lift rocks in TLJ (and I LOVED that film). She was a goddess who could raise the dead, heal with a touch and just about every character fawned over her by TROS. The ending of TROS summons up exactly what Rey as a character was. The OT starts with Luke alone on a desert world, and ends with him a Jedi surrounded by friends and family. The ST starts with Rey alone on a desert world, and ends with her alone on a desert world. Back where she started.

You know, I've known everything you said about Rey in this video but it just clicked for me that Rey going toe to toe with Kylo and how absurd that is would be like if Luke went up to Vader to avenge Obi's death... it's suicide! and there would be no way in hell that he makes it out in any capacity.

1:12 this is explained in the official novelasation of A New Hope, it is explained that The Force itself was working through Luke to Destroy the Death Star, as the the Death star was a threat to the Force itself for the wounds on the Force it could create by destroying planets. And for anyone that says that this is a convenient plot reason, just look back to all weapons of mass destruction in StarWars, and you will see how after being created or use once, they either disappear or got destroyed, like the mass shadow generator, or the Star Forge

LMAO the “I am the one who knocks” parallel part was too good 😂

Her knowing how to use a lightsaber especially grinds my gears. I am a HEMA instructor. You want to know how many times someone who only knows how to use a staff has picked up a shortsword and known how to use it well enough to beat a fencer? 0. It doesn't happen. You cannot take training with a two handed high weight polearm and apply it to a light one handed sword. Even if it's a bastard sword like lightsabers are often categorized (as they can be wielded with one or two hands), it's still a completely different skill set and different muscle groups.

I hate how Rey just knows everything

Luke is NOT a sue at ALL. Yes he pulls off a one in a million shot in A new Hope. And yes he pulled his saber to him in Empire. But that makes sense. As he is Anakin skywalkers son. Furthermore in Empire he had still been training. He needed a good teacher, but he was still doing his exercises that Obi-Wan had taught him. Its like when you go to RU-vid and look up how to do something. You can get a general base knowledge on how to do that. Its better if you take an actual class with a real trainer, but until then the YT tutorial will help you start off.

Can I just mention that blowing up the Death Star was because Ben told him to “use the force” and he could fly an x wing because he flew other ships on tatoine oh and also for the stupid reason that everyone in Star Wars now calls themselves THE PILOT while still having the same skill as everyone else in the Galaxy but apart from that he used the force

I just wanted to say, that’s why the Friends characters are soo likeable. Because the are imperfect. Totally agree with you mate. Easy to say in hindsight, but very good point.

The moment that Rey beat Kylo in the first fight i was so confused. I thought they would give me awesome back story of Rey's hard training later somehow. But No, nothing! She is literally normal person without jedi training background. Lol

To become a skywalker, lose a limb, you must.

I would like to add that she learned how to heal someone, which is a technique only well-trained Jedi can do, without even anyone teaching her. Which is just so stupid.

Legends Luke Skywalker would mop the floor with Rey

It may be the first time he was in an X-wing, but it's stated multiple times that he's one of the best pilots they have, he has been flying for a very long time. This is not an asspull skill, skills as a pilot transfer to a lot of different vessels, and Luke had plenty of those. He was naturally gifted of course, just like his father, but he had trained as a pilot since he was a child. Also, him pulling the lightsaber to him may seem farfetched, but remember, this is the second movie, where we see him in a completely new location than before, and he knew about the force in episode 4. He may have simply practiced offscreen, it wasn't like Rey at all where she used master-level force powers moments after she learned what the force was, Luke had realistic time to learn how to force pull objects, he was in a survival situation which we know is important for focus and growth (adrenaline is a hell of a stimulant for the brain), and he barely managed to do it.

I know this video is a year old, but I'd like to make a note about the two scenes of "Lukes Marysue Moments"! I believe that they actually serve a greater purpose than (as one might perceive it) pushing the story forward through granting random power or skill; those moments are GREATLY IMPORTANT to show us the sort of stuff he should be able to do later. Even if training with the force is a VERY important thing, we must remember not everything has GOT to come through training! This is a real-life sorta thing as much as it is a thing with writing magic / power / ability systems, whatever you wanna call it. Writing in how he'll suddenly have access to certain abilities is GREAT for showing us what he can do LATER and to show that he is either A) gifted to some small degree (though the shot was VERY important!), or B) smart and has a good grasp what on his powers COULD do, and therefore gets creative to see HOW it might work (as with the force pull for his lightsaber). Those sort of possibly "unrealistic" moments of skill are important; it not only shows what the character is capable of now (even if unconsciously), but also makes for good build-up to "Oh, what will they be able to do when they can do that ALL THE TIME?" Its exciting, especially when used with clever, small parts in big moments!

Luke - Nostalgia .....Rey - Newcomer

Luke being able to pilot an X-wing and blow up the Death Star was not a "Mary Sue" example. The movie makes a point of establishing he's an unofficial, but still GOOD, pilot of small ships with an intuitive knack for it that he inherited from his father ("the best star-pilot in the galaxy"). In the shooting script for Star Wars he actually needs TWO runs down the Death Star trench - the first he uses the computer and fails, the second he listens to Ben - but the first run was left on the editing room floor because it slowed things down and was ultimately unnecessary. But I agree though that him using the Force to get his lightsaber at the beginning of ESB was overpowered (a Mary Sue moment) - I thought that as a kid when I saw it in theaters in 1980. Not only hadn't we seen him trained or him do that before, we hadn't seen ANYONE use Force-telekinesis before that scene (unless you count Vader's "Force choke", but that could at the time be explained other ways besides telekinesis, such as some sort of "Jedi mind trick" that interfered with his brain's ability to control his breathing).

The reason that so many villains in modern media are liked more than the heroes is because they're allowed to have flaws and motivations that aren't surface level "I'm evil!" garbage. They have distinct looks and personalities. The heroes have no flaws and are either wooden or insufferable. The people who say "if you like the villain you're missing the point!" are missing the point themselves. People like the villains because they are far more compelling than the heroes. If you don't want people to sympathize with villains, write better heroes.

Luke Skywalker did receive some force training by Obi-Wan on the Falcon, trusting your feeling over physical like computer run. And was guide by Obi-Wan spirit during death star run. Obi-Wan did state Luke was a capable pilot with Luke confronting Han at the bar about it. Rebels were likely desperate for pilots, so they took whatever. They were lines but at least George put in the effort to explain it. On Hoth, Luke remembers his training to draw his lightsaber to him but it took effort and extreme fouces. Later, after yoda training, Luke recall his saber with ease. It was a pay off scene.

And you got the difference between Luke & Rey perfectly in your video: Luke’s tiny stunt of pulling his lightsaber to himself after some training and taking a moment to focus is perfectly believable. Rey pulls the lightsaber not only to herself but from Kylo Ren’s grasp with ZERO training or knowledge. She looks as surprised and confused as the audience in that moment, too!

having a few moments of characters being really good at something from the start is fine and normal as people have a knack for things, their natural talent, but when it's everything from the start, there's no point for that character to be a raw protagonist, and maybe instead should be the mentor to a raw protagonist or the likely hero that fails.

No matter how talented you are, the training makes you jedi or sith. I don't remember that Mara Jade doesn't have a master to train with. Rey is the most unbelievable character I've ever seen(and no, she's not a Skywalker, not even close). Mara Jade is my personal favourite female character in the Star Wars legend.

“Rey Skywalker” will always boil my blood. Should’ve been “Ben Skywalker”!!

Answer: Luke has good writing, Rey doesn't.

You gotta remember that Obi Wan got the ball rolling with Luke. Luke didn’t instantly call the lightsaber to his hand in episode 5, he struggled, but once he focused and remembered what Ben told him, he could begin to feel the force. I think it’s quite fair. Now, if he did that in episode 4 I would be like wtf man, you just figured out you can use the force, how are you this good already

I feel like Finn was the only decent and interesting character. Imagine if he had been the main character, some normal joe who served the first order as a soldier, trying to escape his old life but being dragged back by the responsibility of him being force sensitive or smt. I mean, in my opinion, it just sounds like a more interesting story.

Luke skywalker is on top Rey is the definition of trash

Lol i think they did strap a hyperdrive to a kitchen sink at some point

@Jedwerd Bro, Luke did have X-Wing training! He was an ace in the Incom T-16 Skyhopper which has literally the same controls.

In the original movies, Jedi Master Yoda picking up an X-wing with the force was an impressive feat. Rey? She barely even knows what the force is and in the second movie literally picks up thousands of boulders all once each weighing more than that X-wing. Yeah... I wonder why people find Rey to be a boring character and the sequels to suck.

Luke fails. Over and over again. His few triumphs where great ones but over all hes almost always been an liability to himself. Up until "The Return of the jedi" Rae NEVER failed at anything she tried. And her story was boring.

We could just rename "Mary Sue" to "Rey Palpatine".

Not only in the force is she a MS, she comes from a desert planet, but she can swim. Desert planet but can sail a boat. Never left the planet but can pilot the MF. Pistol shot, 1 hits after not even knowing the safety was on. Po needs to go lightspeed skipping to lose the Tie-fighters cause Rey isn't there. Force heal, first jedi in the movies to do so without knowledge of it. Force heals np, Kylo force heals her and he dies. Etc etc etc. Give us a strong woman, but don't give us a MS.

I'd say Luke is a bit of Mary Sue, but compared to Rey he is super flawed

Only thing i didn't lile about luke was that kenobi and ashoka failed to bring anakin back to the light side but luke succeeded. Kenobi was like a brother to anakin for decades and ashoka was basically raised by anakin like a daughter but a son who he sees for the first time suddenly brought him to light? Other than that luke is amazing and the scene where he butchers moff gideon's droids is one of my favorite moments

Luke was an excellent pilot, as mentioned when he joins the rebellion. So it is plausible he know how to pilot an x-wing

From having spent her entire life scavenging imperial and new republic ships, to living in an AT-AT, it doesn't seem THAT far fetched to me that she has enough mechanical working knowledge on how to repair ships; as well as strip them for parts.🛠️ As for the piloting, it seems canon she'd be familiar with ship controls as per her background knowledge, and the fact that her parents abandoned her via ship, one could theorize that she may have familiarised herself with basic piloting? (Though I respect that this is specifically more of a fan theory👍🏻) True, the maneuvers she pulls off seems like a stretch to me for sure😅, but Luke who spent the first era of his life as a farm boy managed to become an incredible pilot.🚀🤩 Comparatively, he mostly only knew about droids at the time of living on the farm, so age-wise Rey's working knowledge on piloting would've outshined him; hence why the maneuvers are a bit too flamboyant for her skills/knowledge, but the piloting and repairs itself makes sense.🤷🏻‍♀️ 💪🏻As for physical agility, I'd like to think that consistently evading the capture from various desert bandits like Teedo growing up - as well as other dangers on Jakku - makes sense.🏃🏻‍♀️💨Seeing her use ropes, climbing, running etc. on a day to day basis makes her highly physically fit even in the first movie. A lot of her personal plight lies in her pull to the dark side through her desperation to find her parents and her identity💔, as well as resisting the potential pull to it from Palpatine's side😈. This contrasts Ben/Kylo's temptation to turn back to the light. Luke even tells her that when the dark side of the island called to her she "didn't even try to resist it"😨. She spends the latter part of the franchise fighting against her own legacy - similarly to Luke with his ties Vader🙃 - at the cost of not only her life, but of the lives of her new found family and friends (trust in the force she did)...sound familiar yet?🫠 A sentiment echoed throughout the franchise is that the true test of a Jedi isn't necessarily what they achieve or how powerful they are🤨, but that they wield their skills wisely and remain in the light😌, e.g. Cere Junda saying "Cal, we will always struggle with the dark side. But that IS the test." (Otherwise any one with decent values who's good with a lightsaber could be one, but we can all agree it takes persistence like no other and hope above all else🙌🏻). Her desperate attempts to learn more about herself, her past and survive in the meanwhile, often drives her to adapt on the spot. We see a lot of force sensitive children move things and perform various force-weilding maneuvers without any training whatsoever😮, is it that unbelievable that in a life or death situation she - a survivalist, adult and genetically connected to an op force user - might tap into it and give it her all? When she goes missing Kylo himself even states that she's beginning to test her conmection to the force and that the longer it takes to find her the more dangerous she becomes. Granted she holds her own in the duel but primarily through force use, but the hacking she does with the lightsaber💀in contrast to Kylo's measured movements, clearly re-outlines the fact that she's an adept survivalist and strong force user, but lacks the training.🧐 Being trained later by Luke himself and being under the wise and tactical guidance of Leia seems to have been completely and utterly dismissed by hateful fans🤔; not sure why though, as they seem to idolise and praise those characters in all other contexts? Overall does she perform some maneuvers that seem to be beyond her abilities sometimes? Yes.😮‍💨 However the nature of her skills, her background most importantly, and her personality, trump the reasonings as to why that might of been. There are 100% flaws in the character, but that gives her depth and makes her in line with other characters e.g. both her, Luke, Anakin, Kyloe etc. having a darkness inside them or dark force 'temptations', fears etc. that they must overcome.🤝🏻 There are loads of scenes in which Anakin, Han Solo and even Luke get cocky but Rey only becomes sure of herself in the last stand.🤷🏻‍♀️

For your writing issues with Luke. There was a year between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Luke was practicing his force techniques during that time. Unlike the ST where there the first two movies takes place over a week. He was given some time training with Obi'wan to learn the very basics of the force. And Obi'wan's force ghost helped him with the Death Star. They also planted several lines in the movie that Luke was a known good pilot and was one of the most accurate shooters from a craft from his friend. Which we come to realize is his use innate use of the force similar to Anakin. So his accomplishments actually have a reason for his capability.

Back when I saw TFA, it seemed like JJ was going for a Jason Bourne-style character arc for Rey, where she obviously had significant training with the Force but had no recollection. Then Rian threw that all out the window and had us believe Rey is just that good, and at that point I said forget watching Ep 9.

The ships he flies on tattoone have the same cock pit model as an x wing and in the original stories Luke trained with Obi Won on the Malimicaln falcon for like a week to 3 weeks is it's unclear exactly. The sequels have made hyperspace to fast so now there are more problems with Luke and his training time. So Disney again is the problem.

Also when in Star wars force awakens when the starkiller base was exploding it left with a lot on unanswered questions like how did everyone on the starkiller base survive and end up in the next film?

Luke Skywalker is my favourite character in Star Wars

1:07 The funny part is that it wasn't supposed to be his first shot, they cut out the part where he uses the targeting computer and misses to save time

Luke did mention though that the trench run was possible because he used to do the same thing to womprats on tatooine.

Luke also not even FIGHT in the first movie. Yeah, he has a stroke of luck with the Death Star, but he doesn't beat a 20+ years trained Sith on the first day he picks up a lightsaber. He doesn't fix a ship better than the man who piloted it his all life and loved it more than his own family, he doesn't escape mind control...because

The thing is I never really noticed anything bad about the movies until it was pointed out. Mostly because I watched said movies for the guns and machines

Luke is no mary sue. He is often in need of his friends who prevail for him. He started as a 19 year old. In episode five, he is 22. Three years sounds like a long enough time to learn to lift a lightsaber. And also, even younglings have a sixth sence like that. In episode six, he is 25.

1:11 the xwings were designed to be like a type of crop duster

I will save this video so when someone says Luke is a Gary Stu I can make them shut their mouths. Also when someone who is a male is flawless it is called a Gary Stu, not a Mary Sue.

I enjoyed everyone film, 1-9, I think the sequels get so much hate because you won’t make everyone happy. To play devils advocate Rey literally has the force on her side, she is the last Jedi with thousands of other Jedi’s behind her and being good at everyone 1st time is needed. When people say what was before the Big Bang, no one knows how to answer it because we don’t know and we will probably never know the answer to that question.. but what if the answer is just nothing. Sometimes things just need to be how they are with no explanation and make no sense and that’s just the way it is. Idk I loved all the films, maybe years from now I will rewatch them and not like them as much but I loved watching every single one. Thought they were all awesome.

I don't know if Luke pulling the sabre from the snow is unreasonable. Hoth takes place over three years after the first Death Star's destruction, so he's had a lot of time to hone his skills. Also the destruction of the Death Star was done with the direct aid of Obi Wan. It's not so Mary Sue if a magical space ghost is helping you ;) There are aspects of Rey that I like. She was just really badly handled. They needed to make her more flawed (ie-Not amazing at everything) and have better reasons for why she was instantly so good at using the force/fighting.

Luke Skywalker used the force in a realistic way for someone not properly trained in it in A New Hope. He used it to guide him in how to shoot the torpedo and used it to shoot at a spot that disabled some turrets. He wasn’t pulling ships out of orbit and shooting them with lightning.

0:32 He`s short for a stormtrooper :D That`s why he joined the resistance...

They do establish Luke has pilot training and assuming before they send a bunch of pilots to attack the Death star they actually gave him a lot of time in training with an X-wing. It's one of those things that are easy to assume, so you don't need an entire Top Gun montage showing it. He takes out the Death Star in a way they had planned and prepared for he just uses the force with the guidance of Obi-Wan and uses one of the first things most force users even learn and that is trusting in the force for augment their skills. Blowing up the Death Star was a way to tie him to Anakin who blew up a Lukerhulk but in Anakin's case he literally had 0 training in a star fighter, wasn't channeling the force, didn't get debriefed on where the Lukerhulk's weaknesses even were. Originally it was supposed to be a way that confirmed to Quigon that Anakin was the chosen one and that Obi-Wan began to believe he was being guided by the force stronger than any Jedi Master could even imagine. So you can see how some of the rewrites created issues. Not having a scene where other pilots and Jedi were reacting to the discovery that a 9 year old boy had accomplished the impossible was a big miss in making the story of Episode 1 feel as complete as episode 4. At least with Anakin there was some wiggle room but with Rey they make it quite clear that she is just better than everyone in everyway no matter the challenge. And one of the biggest issues of a Mary Sue is that they choke all of the development of other characters around them. Fin's backstory becomes irrelevant, Poe isn't the best fighter and is more of a side kick. Even Chewy played more of a role in the OG trilogy than all of the other main characters do in the ST.

Can I just say that shot from chewbacca’s bow caster should have fcking killed ben

The breaking bad reference was crazy😂😂

Correction...Luke had experience flying X wings if you listen to the dialogue when before he suits up on the deathstar mission.

Rey has short comings. It just takes people time to notice them. She is a little absent minded sometimes, but hat doesn't mean she is bad. She is just gifted. The gifted are ALWAYS hated. - a gifted person.

Rey swinging the light saber on the island scene to me was just silly. Especially the split second part where she's swinging it like a bat in front of the camera. I almost spat out my drink when I first saw it in the theater.

Luke is not mary sue anything.. but he blows up the death star.. (yes he did after he was introduced to how to tune into the force by obi wan and being the chosen ones son he has the second highest midichlorian count in all of star wars (arguably) so he is naturally OP so in that intense battle he much like his dad when anakin was a kid blowing up the sepper ship it makes sense and a nice call back.. as for pulling the his saber in the snow.. its not a heavy object and even cal kestis who isnt as powerful in the force at the roughly the same amount of trainign as luke had was able to do the same... but obi wan didnt teach luke much.. correction the movie wasnt long enough to have all the training luke received from obi wan in the movie

They literally explained Luke's piloting ability but very subtly unlike Rey. In the beginning, Luke can be seen talking to his uncle and aunt about becoming a pilot at the imperial academy. His hang out with his friends at a nearby station is implied to be another day of flight practice with his friends as implied by his uncle Owen. His force pulling came from the fact that he was being trained by Obi-wan(Ben). Before Obi-wan died, Luke learned about trusting his instincts. Later comics show and imply that Obi-wan began teaching Luke other techniques such as dueling and using the force after he had died. Rey on the other hand was never even explained. She just knew.

i don't think that Daisy Ridley is that bad of an actor i just think Disney was like," star wars = money... Lets make another 3 films because we want money" and that reflects in their story telling