Why publish "ceiiinosssttuv"?

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Caroline Roper, Ella Hubber and Tom Lum from the podcast 'Let's Learn Everything!' face a question about tricksy text.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Caroline Roper: / carolinethebug
Ella Hubber: / ellahubber
Tom Lum: / tomlumperson
Let's Learn Everything podcast: www.letslearneverythingpod.com/
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2024.

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Опубликовано:

22 апр 2024

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Комментарии : 146

@wiseSYW Месяц назад

in an alternate history, Captain Hooke publishes the location of his treasure this way

@SylviaRustyFae Месяц назад

Notably, he wudve called himself Captain Robert but he didnt wanna be confused with the infamous pirate Roberts

@autumn_west Месяц назад

because as we all know, nobody meets the Dread Pirate Roberts and survives

@jeremello Месяц назад

My guess was that he figured out that there were a bunch of typos in the publication, and instead of amending it, he just added the missing letters as an exercise for the readers.

@cvindustries Месяц назад

That was Timothy Dexter and his book, A Pickle for the Knowing Ones.

@theducvu5196 Месяц назад

That r*m*nds m* of a class*c tumblr post: Old MacD*nald had a farm. *eieio

@SpaceSoups Месяц назад

The answer is trivial, and left as an exercise for the readers.

@oscarramage95 Месяц назад

After hearing it in ‘sing-song’ format, my mind immediately went ‘Ooh eeh ooh ahh ahh ting tang walla walla bing bang’

@romainsavioz5466 Месяц назад

😂

@NickTaylorRickPowers Месяц назад

Tom scott has been busted

@nitehawk86 Месяц назад

I am glad I am not the only one hearing this. Also thank you for typing it out, I was about to and realized it was too much effort :)

@violagreene4643 Месяц назад

Nah, this is science, not witch doctoring

@romainsavioz5466 Месяц назад

Two halfs can't make an hole without an hole

@Michael75579 Месяц назад

The modern version of this would be to create a text file describing your discovery and publish the SHA-256 hash of that file. The hash can't be reversed - it's smaller than the input text, so multiple input texts will produce the same hash, and it's computationally infeasible (as in it would take orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe) to find an input that generates a particular hash. When you reveal the text file, the fact that it produces the SHA-256 hash you originally published therefore shows that you had exactly that text file at the time you published the hash.

@theadamabrams Месяц назад

This is exactly what Tom mentions at 7:55 (but without the nice explanation of what a hash does).

@JohnADoe-pg1qk Месяц назад

Good luck with ANSI, ASCII, UTF-8, ISO/IEC 8859-x, UTF-16, UTF-32.

@xipalips Месяц назад

Thanks, was trying to follow what Tom was saying and had trouble.

@qwertyTRiG Месяц назад

There was a discussion of this on Hacker News the other day, and someone mentioned this method used by scientists. So I was able to work this out very quickly.

@lucbloom Месяц назад

@@JohnADoe-pg1qkpick one. Done.

@iainwasson6822 Месяц назад

I remember learning in an Engineering class that Hooke did the same thing with an anagram of a latin phrase that translates to "As hangs a flexible cable so, inverted, stand the touching pieces of an arch." This was an idea that he never finished workinhg on before he died and his executor revealed the solution.

@yveslafrance2806 Месяц назад

By executor, I’m going to guess you mean “executor of his will”, not the guy who cut off his head 😏

@hebl47 Месяц назад

@@yveslafrance2806 Nah. They set Hooke a fixed deadline by which he had to complete his work. And they took the word deadline quite literally back then. But to be fair, he was given a choice: Either this, or admit in writing that Newton is his better. The choice was an easy one.

@yveslafrance2806 Месяц назад

@@hebl47 A deadline, eh? Now I see where the expression “chop chop” comes from…

@selfification Месяц назад

Ooh I immediately knew Hooke's law on ideal springs but did not know he figured out catenaries. Nice! This is now a proper physics nerd party here.

@sorayaimperial Месяц назад

All I remembered about Robert Hooke was from reading Horrible History, and I fully went "it's the spring guy with a bad temper, so this is about springs and being pissy about other people stealing his work".

@fghsgh Месяц назад

as someone who did 4 years of latin and also knew about Hooke, xkcd 2501 strikes again

@GrrAargh1 Месяц назад

Surprised none of them knew who Robert Hooke was.

@geirmyrvagnes8718 Месяц назад

To be fair, we lived a lot closer to his time than they did.

@DasGanon Месяц назад

Newton strikes again

@Zadster Месяц назад

Same here, we did it in secondary school science, even before GCSE physics.

@glossaria2 Месяц назад

Ditto. I didn't learn Hooke's Law 'til later, but we saw his drawings of cells (and looked at plant cells ourselves) in elementary school.

@leumas75 Месяц назад

I’m a musician from the US and even I know who Hooke is/was. Yeesh.

@benjaminepstein5856 Месяц назад

He published this around the time when the balance spring for watches was invented. He was at odds with Christian Huuygens, a Dutch inventor who he was beefing with over priority of invention.

@TheLatokuivaaja Месяц назад

Just dropping by to say, yes, Tom, it would be the printing press.

@RJSRdg Месяц назад

Robert Hooke lived in the period following the Great Fire of London and was a friend of Sir Christopher Wrenn, who designed many of the buildings in the rebuilt city, including St Paul's Cathedral. Between them, they designed the Monument to the Great Fire in such a way that with the addition of lenses top and bottom it would double as a giant telescope with which to observe a forthcoming transit of Venus!

@peterhawthorn-smith5005 Месяц назад

Indeed. And I believe his laboratory/workspace from which you would look through the telescope is still in the foundations though not open to the public. As a teenager I went up the Monument and was mesmerised by the way you can look all the way down the centre. Only years later did I learn why.

@SlyPearTree Месяц назад

Robert is almost a famous pirate's name, one just need to add an 's': The Dread Pirate Roberts.

@craftsmanwoodturner Месяц назад

As you wish!

@SlyPearTree Месяц назад

@@craftsmanwoodturner I prefer people buy me dinner before they declare their love.

@selfification Месяц назад

With iocane powder mixed in?

@Haights Месяц назад

The second Tom talked about sing-songy jingles on kid's TV, I'm sure every US 90s kid immediately had "Write to me / Stick Stickly / PO Box 963 / NY City / NY State / 10108" running through their head.

@abigailcooling6604 Месяц назад

Figured this out as soon as the question was read - my time spent watching the Objectivity channel all about the history of science/scientific artifacts has not gone to waste! I am now disproportionately happy 😁.

@R-Tex. Месяц назад

Our great professor asked us this same question as a warm up to his course. "Ceiiinosssttuv" is an anagram that Robert Hooke used in his publication. Later, he revealed the solution to the anagram as the Latin phrase ut tensio, sic vis, which translates to "as the extension, so the force".

@BananaWasTaken Месяц назад

I’m such an idiot that I didn’t make the connection between Robert Hooke and Hooke’s law until Tom said it at the end ._.

@R-Tex. Месяц назад

@@BananaWasTaken been there! •⁠‿⁠•

@SimonJM Месяц назад

The first thing I thought of was Hooke's Law - thanks physics lessons from back in the late 70s!

@robertjarman3703 Месяц назад

The moment Tom mentioned anagrams, I got the puzzle. I know that Galileo did it for claiming the discovery of the rings of Saturn and the phases of Venus. Some people accidentally decided them as Mars has two moons and Jupiter has a great red spot. Both of them are absolutely correct but that was an accident.

@YenRug Месяц назад

Loved Tom just casually dropping an Alfred Bester reference in there! Now to wonder if he's ever read The Sheep Look Up and been horrified by the microwave malfunction?

@NonFatMead Месяц назад

It's sort of a zero knowledge proof. You're showing evidence that you know a thing, without revealing what that thing is.

@IceMetalPunk Месяц назад

Not quite, because the only way for the anagram to prove you know the thing is by deciphering it and revealing the thing.

@NonFatMead Месяц назад

@@IceMetalPunk That's why I said 'sort of'

@Obie. 12 дней назад

I immediately thought this was a subtle bill and Ted reference, especially with the title. I was just racking my brain to figure out how Ted could be short for Justin

@ymeynot0405 Месяц назад

@LateralWithTomScott HEY! Now we know what "Covfefe" was all about! 🤣

@lucbloom Месяц назад

Yeah what?

@nbartlett6538 Месяц назад

I kind of doubt Donald knows Latin but okay!

@hebl47 Месяц назад

@@lucbloom Well, obviously we don't know it YET, because the time for reveal hasn't happened yet.

@GordonHugenay Месяц назад

Oh, I've just checked out these guys' podcast, and it's amazing! Thank you Tom Scott for introducing me to them!

@Slikx666 Месяц назад

Could have got Matt Grey to read out the Latin. 😀

@MKVProcrastinator Месяц назад

What's with the name Sven Woca on the thumbnail?

@lateralcast Месяц назад

Our thumbnail designer is called Evan Scow :)

@mabogibo525 Месяц назад

@@lateralcast An anagram, I see.

@woodfur00 Месяц назад

Knew this one! Thanks, Dinosaur Comics.

@pcfilho425 Месяц назад

My first question would be: "is this related to Hooke’s Law?" 😂

@hebl47 Месяц назад

Funnily enough, my first thought was: "How is this related to his feud with Newton?"

@osmia Месяц назад

You guys are great!

@Kinsfire Месяц назад

Tom, my man! Agreed on Kars4Kids! I do turn my radio off when I hear it!

@Stephen.R Месяц назад

Would have laughed if someone would have been like Matt with his GCSE in Latin and solved the anagram. Sadly I completely forgot about Hooke's Law until it was mentioned, didn't even trigger when he mentioned the last name.

@WyvernYT Месяц назад

I was thinking, "Tom Scott knows at least one person who could solve the anagram..."

@charliedobbie8916 Месяц назад

Thanks to London's Capital FM in the 90s(?) I know jingles from radio 7HO in Tasmania. (That's my wonderful toooown!)

@CodeOmega0 День назад

My immediate thought was to anagram the title, and all I got was "Tit viciousness". Of course it was in Latin instead!

@archbox8593 Месяц назад

The fact that you could pronounce it the same as "see, I know stuff" seems oddly ironic considering it's about a scientific discovery xD

@woodfur00 Месяц назад

Oh that's good

@techheck3358 Месяц назад

Love the LLE crew 🥺

@mattkuhn6634 Месяц назад

As soon as Tom mentioned Robert Hooke, my first thought was "This HAS to be related to his infamous beef with Isaac Newton"

@rigsbyrigged1831 Месяц назад

A 1980s thing that I did every few weeks: Put an Audio Cassette (Yes those things that used to get mangled in our players) into a padded-envelope (Jiffy-bag?) (No longer a thing I think) and send per post to myself via registered mail but never open. I still have all the envelopes still with the Royal Mail stamps proving when they were sent but they were never opened. The poor man’s copyright. My SONG! Or Songs! I hope you understand what I mean?

@antonm_ Месяц назад

Reminded me of the movie "Mercury Rising"

@tonypang83 Месяц назад

I still don't fully understand how it works, even after they explained it. 🤣

@igorbednarski8048 Месяц назад

I didn't know this specific example, but I heard of the same thing being practiced by the astronomers of that era.

@bettyswallocks6411 Месяц назад

At a guess, it will have been to annoy Newton, but Hooke had a habit of publishing formulae as anagrams. Of note is that the letters are in alphabetic order.

@nitehawk86 Месяц назад

I knew Tom was gonna say "pirate?" :)

@woodfur00 Месяц назад

*Panthers?*

@katherinek6166 Месяц назад

My immediate first reaction was, "I only know one Hooke from 17th century, and only one specific thing he's known for." And turns out, I should have ran with it. XD

@shaunhouse8469 Месяц назад

Robert Hooke, the person who lived at the wrong end of Isaac Newtown's pettiness. Also from the Isle of Wight

@SigEpBlue Месяц назад

Oh, THAT Hooke! LoL Awesome.

@veggiet2009 Месяц назад

I think this episode had my favorite intro (i won't spoil it, you have to go listen to it), and my favorite outro featuring an unexpected cameo from Mario

@veggiet2009 Месяц назад

I put this here again to plead for full episodes on RU-vid, in part because convenience, but also so we can comment on the whole episode!

@lateralcast Месяц назад

Our podcast platform is beta-testing a video capability. In the meantime, there are community posts for every full episode.

@hcblue Месяц назад

oh no why did you sing that jingle to Keyes, Keyes, Keyes, Keyes on Van Nuys! tom?!

@markusklyver6277 Месяц назад

Just publish the work encrypted and then reveal your private key.

@menachemsalomon Месяц назад

I know the original words to the "Kars-4-Kids" jingle. It has nothing to do with cars, though it is about little kids.

@walterskent Месяц назад

I really vibe with Ella’s anxiety. 😂

@andrewshanks7053 Месяц назад

My guess was that he was demonstrating some oddity of the press he was using when printing strings of repeated letters.

@route2070 Месяц назад

Wait is Kars for Kids in the UK too, or is he pissed off at it just from visiting the US and maybe Canada?

@Xnoob545 Месяц назад

1:30 Steve Terreberry (Stevie T) flashsbacks

@SylviaRustyFae Месяц назад

5:35 tbf to Tom Lun here, Robert is actually a prty piratey name too. There's the Dread Pirate Roberts from the Princess Bride... Which likely used that name bcuz of the real life Bartholomew Roberts; and that pirate is a prty famous one, so its natural to associate Roberts with pirates, esp if theyve got Hooks too!

@DJR000 Месяц назад

Will still watch. But my guess it is a glitch where they do not check for words with duplicate letters in a row

@curtishoffmann6956 Месяц назад

Galileo, Torricelli and Sir Christopher Wren did similar things.

@lucidmoses Месяц назад

Personally I don't care who got there first. What matters is who shared the information first. Back in those days it was pretty common for people to take discoveries to their grave.

@20thcenturygamer22 Месяц назад

Robert Hook? Didn't he have a hit in 1979 with "When You're In Love With a Beatiful Woman"?

@arnelilleseter4755 Месяц назад

That was Dr. Hook. And in this case the name was in fact a reference to Captain Hook.

@stevemoore12 Месяц назад

Who else thought this was the discovery of the rings of saturn?

@nanardeurlambda Месяц назад

3:12 is that just an anagram? 5:19 Ah! I was about to suggest it was latin. 7:24 that's a cute system

@noimnotgoingtoenteraname Месяц назад

well it's the letters to S.S. Constitutive in alphabetical order. that's gotta be it

@vancewade6251 Месяц назад

my first thought was that the letters were published super tiny and were there so scientists could test their microscopes they either made or purchased, but I now realize that's silly lol but my brain went to microscopy before Hooke's law, and I actually think I'm only just now putting together that they're the same Hooke

@RFC3514 Месяц назад

Ah, yes, Dread Pirate Robert Hooke.

@marksnow7569 Месяц назад

Tenser said the tensor

@deafeningoctopus Месяц назад

Time to write down a bunch of letters that might translate into something so I can claim the next big scientific discovery :p

@golden_gloo Месяц назад

Roman Numerals were sorta on the right lines of a Latin anagram.

@erictaylor5462 Месяц назад

Don't ask why, ask Why knot.

@AFNacapella Месяц назад

welcome back to 9 out of 10 Toms...

@donnerbart_ Месяц назад

cdeeefghlnoppsst (which may or may not be an anagram of "Non debes habere oratores gratissimos pro podcast laterali, sed si facias esse Caroline, Ella et Tom!", we will never know)

@user-sl6gn1ss8p Месяц назад

Ok, so a pirate who knows about elasticity, you say?

@techno1561 Месяц назад

My guess is that either he used AI in 1676 somehow, or more realistically, that he wrote dictionaries, and that it's the equivalent of fake towns in maps, being a way for him to check if someone plagiarised his work.

@CA-oe1ok Месяц назад

The spelling instantly reminded me of Hooke's law. Althouth, the zero knowledge proof part is ingenious for his time.

@cybergeek11235 Месяц назад

"Write to me, Stick Stickly, PO Box 963, New York City, New York state, 10108!" (it might be 563 or 163. it's been like 30 years. shut up.)

@clausewitzianwar Месяц назад

Z Double-O M Box 350, Boston Mass, 0-21-34

@hadinossanosam4459 Месяц назад

With how adamant Tom was you couldn't figure it out, I feel the need to point out I did actually get to "Sic vis, ut tensio" within the runtime of the video and without looking it up! (Then again, I knew of both this technique and Robert Hooke and Hooke's law before this video, and had even heard the phrase before)

@mojosbigsticks Месяц назад

Cor. Pecavi.

@vaclav_fejt Месяц назад

Or as I call it, "E times e equals e."

@Ghiaman1334 Месяц назад

Only about a minute in, nothing groundbreaking has really been said apart from the maybe slightly misleading 'you don't need to write it down'. I'm going to guess it's a copying thing, like how maps and dictionaries have fake words or towns so you can tell if they're copied from somewhere else, but at that point it wouldn't be dictionaries. I'm gonna stick with my instincts, though, and go with a map, that he was mapping somewhere 'undiscovered before' and put a random collection of letters on the 'new' landmass so he could tell if anyone was pretending to have made the voyage instead of/before he did.

@Ghiaman1334 Месяц назад

Wow I cannot believe I got that close. I would not have gotten the science element of it, but knowing Tom as good as anyone can from his videos I should have expected it. Also, it would have been ironic if Hooke had actually not been the one to write that down, he just did the experiment much quicker, slightly later, and had enough time to find the document, unscramble the latin anagram, and claim it as his own before the actual scientist.

@sherlockmaverick Месяц назад

So it was his PGP key lol

@antispeedrun Месяц назад

Goddamn Edison!

@PeskiePete Месяц назад

If I can be annoying here: Its not an anagram, rather an initialisation. The difference is that an anagram can be read as a word (like NATO).

@Poldovico Месяц назад

you're thinking of an acronym. Anagrams are when you scramble the letters: "ceiiinosssttuv" is every letter from "ut tensio, sic vis", rearranged into alphabetical order. The initialization and/or acronym would be "UTSV"

@PeskiePete Месяц назад

@@Poldovico You are correct. Thank you. I mixed up acronym and anagram.