Why Run Differential Is Terrible For Youth Baseball Tournaments

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Youth Baseball tournaments are all screwed up - one of the big problems is run differential, or the difference between the amount of runs scored and the amount of runs allowed. This settles tie-breakers in pool play, but causes lots of downstream problems for player development.
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7 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 81

@SideYardCat 2 месяца назад

This Summer my kid’s travel team entered only one tournament. The coach is just contacting other teams and renting a field and hiring umps. Split between both teams the cost is low, there’s no tournament BS/hotel expenses/etc… He sets up double headers, too. We have a ton of games, we can play weeknights, even get some weekends off. It’s the best travel team, ever. I hate tourneys, btw. One or two a season, sure, otherwise they’re a waste.

@EdBadal 2 месяца назад

Every tournament that my son has played has capped run diff, usually 7 per game. What's even more disgraceful is that in spite of the cap, some teams still run up the score. These are the same coaches who bat 9 rather than the full lineup, ask 9 year olds to throw 50% curve balls, and yell at the kids when they screw up. The silver lining even in these games is that you can explain to your child that such teams are perfect examples of what NOT to do.

@SideYardCat 2 месяца назад

Those are the teams that make talented players hate the game.

@CheeseGrits42 2 месяца назад

Respectfully, running up the score results in ending the game early because of the run rule. Ending the game early saves unnecessary pitches. That provides a competitive advantage in bracket play. So, don’t blame the coaches who are acting rationally. Blame the game. Tournament baseball is the problem. But if you’re going to play tournament baseball, you should pursue a winning strategy. 🤷‍♂️

@EdBadal 2 месяца назад

@@CheeseGrits42 yes, I addressed this issue in another comment. At the end of the day, you're not teaching good sportsmanship and player development in exchange for a faster win. If the team is so elite (especially when compared to the other team), your pitchers should be also, meaning lots of pitch efficiency, meaning nobody's arm is being worn out because of that game. This is also why tournaments have diff caps. It's to encourage honorable play. Otherwise a diff cap makes no sense. And if all you're doing is playing to win, then you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. Yes, winning is definitely more fun, but at youth age levels, development has to be the goal. Nobody cares what your 12u record was except the coach whose org's prestige allows him to go and recruit the next crop of players because it's a business, not a youth development org. Baseball is a long game and so is the development path. And even losing builds character. One shouldn't be so short sighted as to overlook these things at the youth age level.

@CheeseGrits42 2 месяца назад

@@EdBadalI agree that it fails to focus on player development. I also agree that nobody cares what your 12U record was. I just disagree that it’s bad sportsmanship or disgraceful in this context. Running up a score because you want to embarrass someone is disgraceful. But running it up to end the game early because you might have to play 6 or 7 games that weekend is a legit competitive strategy, and therefore does not signify bad sportsmanship to me. Like you, I would prefer my kid to be in an environment focused on player development. But tournament baseball is just not set up that way. It incentivizes keeping the foot on the gas. Personally, I think the whole travel system is fundamentally broken, and run differential caps do little to fix it.

@ssdodge 2 месяца назад

I agree with capping RD on pool play days. Also stop with the 8am starts if the tournament isn't loaded. And adjust the Sunday brackets so teams don't have to potentially play 4 games if they're going to survive the day. I think there are a few things that can be fixed to make the tournament experience better for teams and families.

@4570sharps 2 месяца назад

Gate fees have cost my son dozens of extra fans and family to not attend his games. He could have a half dozen groupies (his sister's friends) if they would not charge those insane gate fee (now going up to $12). I don't know a parent who isn't disgusted with Perfect Game - but we're all stuck in this trap.

@TD-ce5ru 2 месяца назад

I am an old time coach. I feel that when the round robin seeding format style became popular, is when it became a pure money maker. I understand that it becomes a guaranteed four game tournament . But the good old true double elimination with a matchup game gives you three guaranteed games without all the sandbagging and running up the scores .

@kennethpowchak1775 2 месяца назад

I see it the other way around in many of our tournaments. The pool play games end up with kids pitching who have little to no experience and most of the teams are sand banging trying to get into a bracket they think they can win. It burns me when I pay to watch two teams do all they can to be terrible with hopes they end up in a lower bracket they can easily win. I understand protecting the kids arms and completely agree with it. My son is a pitcher and I am super conscious of how many pitches he throws a week. The problem lies in how many teams have 5 or6 solid pitchers? We have three so we have to pitch kids that aren’t ready in pool play games.

@dustinhawks7571 2 месяца назад

All tournaments we've played in Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky use tie breakers in this order: H2H, runs allowed, run differential (capped at 8 per game) and then runs scored. Our biggest issue is the run rule ending games prematurely and the 1:45 time limits. 15U shouldn't be playing 5 inning games.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

the time limits are also rough - kids don't learn how to play in the final innings, under pressure, and coaching strategy is very different

@mlandau2776 2 месяца назад

@@DanBlewett i hear that, but also don’t want 3 hour games….multiple times a day. Bad enough baseball has this “warm up an hour early” philosophy. Tack on a 3 hour game….long time to be out there. These are still kids after all. I love basketball in the winter….in and out in 1 hr flat. 😊 We actually played a tournament that was no new inning after 1:15. I found the pace refreshing. Real baseball? I guess not. But still liked it.

@rayray4192 3 дня назад

@@DanBlewettthe owners of the tournament is a business man. His goal is to make money. He doesn’t care about your child. He doesn’t care about you. The games have time limits because too many games are scheduled on one diamond in a day. As an umpire I’ve been on the field for 14.5 hrs. Ten minute break between games is not sufficient. Tournament baseball is not real baseball. It’s a business venture. I’m treated with very little respect or concern.

@mr.h3022 2 месяца назад

First time viewer here. I appreciate your honest take on this. My son is just getting into tournament play, and we haven’t encountered these specific problems yet (save for the $10 gate fees, which are ridiculous to watch a kids baseball game when I can buy AAA tickets for nearly the same price), but I will come back to this video should the issues arise in the future, as I’m sure they will. I may have to check out your book too. Glad I found your channel.

@crazyfun23ify 2 месяца назад

Another perspective... my youngest so has an amazing team. 9u winning 10u championships. We follow all this advice and put players into new positions and bat kids and pitch kids that need some help. We love all the kids but many times we still score and hit. Sometime the other teams think we are running up the score when we are actually just teaching the kids baseball and letting them hit. We aren't going to stop playing baseball just because we are winning.

@davidaglio8829 2 месяца назад

I agree with all of that. A buddy of mine umpires local tournaments. He sent me a result the other day of a 10U game that ended 31-0 after 3 innings. That's got to be so demoralizing for kids who are probably in fourth grade.

@marlonfowler 2 месяца назад

In the tournaments that my son’s team plays in, if there is a tie between multiple team’s records in pool play, the first criteria that they go by in deciding who gets the higher seed is points allowed.

@MH-Tesla 2 месяца назад

Twice we had to crush horrible teams because run differential was the first determination on who makes it to tournament play. We were up 15-0 and had to throw a horrible pitcher to give up one run so we could score even more. Finally won 21-1. Got 20 run differential which actually did get us to the tournament Sunday games. Sorry. That's also why you should ALWAYS be the away team in pool play! If we were home team, the have would have ended at 15 runs. We wouldn't have made it to Sunday.

@j.d.aguirre447 2 месяца назад

I coach two travel/club teams. All of our tournaments are based on runs allowed if head to head is not applicable. First season, we were run ruled mercilessly. 2nd season we were able to finish with a .500 record. 3rd season- 26-5-1. I always had conversations with my kids about blowouts and the other team running up the score. Ultimately, i feel like the thing that should be universal is station to station base running with a big lead. I dont really care about #1 seed, but i do want my boys to strive to give up as few runs as possible by playing solid defense and throwing strikes. In my case, i will call on 9 of my 10 players to pitch at some point with the utmost confidence..development is key.

@erikpaullive 2 месяца назад

Compass format...Tennis does this and it is amazing. As the tourney progresses, the games get significantly more competitive for ALL teams. No pool play nonsense, no run differential, no tie breakers. Straight up bracket play. Some will say, "oh, but the two best teams met in the quarterfinals"...sure, and one of the teams won that game and went on to win the championship. It worked out...

@sauldemize9998 2 месяца назад

totally agree with almost all of this! I would add that hardly any of the tournaments don't always follow USA baseball pitch counts. some are total innings and some are total outs. anything over 20 pitches is a day off. hardly anyone follows this in weekend tournaments. kids arms are needlessly taxed.

@eastansdaddy 2 месяца назад

$5 rings is the problem with youth baseball.

@user-wf1jr3qd7m 2 месяца назад

I have been saying this for years. In high level /pro ball if you run up the score, steal, bunt, after you are up by 6 or more runs you get hit in the ribs next time at bat! Youth tournaments have got it all wrong and teaching wrong lessons to kids. Never run up the score past 6 runs.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

I strongly disagree with your notion of 6 runs being a limit in youth games - 6 run innings are super common, just a few walks, errors and hits and 6 runs come in.

@user-wf1jr3qd7m 2 месяца назад

You have misunderstood me…didn’t say limit the score. I said stop running up the score after 6 by stealing, bunting etc. Go base to base after 6.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

I understood you - I disagree with both of your explanations. 6 run lead is absolutely not the time to stop stealing, etc. Not even in the MLB would they shut it down at 6. 10 runs is a more reasonable number for youth.

@deathalizer 2 месяца назад

The scenarios you describe can be accommodated in league games. Tournaments have these rules in place to force teams to always use their best pitchers. This makes it more likely that opposing teams face the highest competition level. Teams that get blown out on tournaments consistently should reconsider tournament play and maybe stay in a league until they have enough pitching to compete at the tournament level.

@charlesgosset8342 2 месяца назад

It is a major cultural difference between Europe and the US. In Europe it is seen as disrespectful or even insulting to stop trying to score as many as you can.

@jerl.980 2 месяца назад

With the number of game in the regular season we decided to just concentrate of this and our playoff. In our league tournaments we have pitch count and the finals becomes a joke because you have no good pitcher left. I always stack on pitchers in my teams and that was still an issue at some events. One tournaments a year for u16 and lower for the fun of going to a tournament fine but the rules modify the game too much. That is a good discussion to have.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

agree, I have a video planned on that as well. Thanks for the comments!

@MandrakeCigars 2 месяца назад

Parents should never talk or ask about playing time. Especially once the players hit middle school.

@stephenbowles3007 2 месяца назад

I’m a baseball guy. Played some junior college then joined Navy. Was fortunate to have some great coaches in my baseball career! I HAVE 3 sons! Oldest is 8.5 and a solid little player. Very disappointed in the little league org. Where I live. WHAT OPTIONS DO I HAVE??? Not looking to do a ton of out of town tourneys. I live kinda close to Richmond VA

@nymets1104 2 месяца назад

the USSSA tournaments we have been in this year 14u prioritize runs allowed as the first tie breaker after W/L

@seanricker9817 2 месяца назад

also worth noting, when USSSA does go to run differential, they cap it at 8 so anything over that is wasted effort.

@JustinBurgan-qw1dn 2 месяца назад

This has a similar problem, you never want to pull your best defense.

@awall422 2 месяца назад

the problem is tournaments period.

@19bayarea91 2 месяца назад

I agree. I remember when I was a kid, we had maybe three chances to fight for a championship. We would play the whole little league season to get into the playoffs and then have that once chance at a championship. After that, we had all stars if you made it and Memorial Day tournament as well if your league had one. Now these kids play for a championship every Sunday. You didn’t win this week’s championship? Don’t worry, there’s another one next week. We learned to grind the season back in the day.

@Rooster_king 2 месяца назад

I disagree. Tournaments are fun for the kids and gets them way more playing time. Rec league has its purpose but can't compete for this reason.

@mightymoose4577 2 месяца назад

I loved tournaments. That's when the real games were. Rec league had to many kids who didn't know how to catch.

@tmccloudjr13 2 месяца назад

They are both good and bad. Good cause of course kids want to feel like they are winning. Bad cause now most kids don’t think they need practice cause they play sooooo many tournaments/games. Practice 6 days play 1 Not play 6 days and practice 1 You can’t get the right amount of reps if you are in game.

@jasonaustin8510 2 месяца назад

There needs to be a balance, agree lets not blow out teams unnecessarily, Caps, Run Rules are all great. PG uses Runs Allowed {RA} again not ideal... The same thing happens, giving up 1 run in pool play vs. 3 can determine making Bracket Play... This also keeps "the best" kids on the field because you cant have errors. So player development lacks. This also doesn't award offense. If in 2 pool game format, team A goes 2-0 with 2 runs Scored 0 allowed while team B goes 2-0 with 10 runs scored and 1 run allowed how do you warrant Team A to be Better than Team B?

@rexmcquire6548 2 месяца назад

You mentioned capping run differential, curious what other ideas you have to solve this issue? As a coach, I agree, the current format makes it tough to get other kids innings. Remember when baseball was kids, a bat, and a ball 😁

@jaymelyttle2365 2 месяца назад

Run differential is capped, plus the first tie breaker in pool play (after wins/losses) is runs allowed anyway…run differential is literally not a problem

@mrbug4803 2 месяца назад

Exactly. Run dif is usually capped at 8 runs and the run rule is 8 after 4 so it’s not like teams are dropping 20 on a team unless one team shouldn’t be there anyway.

@apav0519 2 месяца назад

We just played a tournament this past weekend on feilds with 180ft fences. Our best player hit a home run in his first at bat, and the opponent intentionally walked him with the bases loaded in the last inning. We lost 10-2. You read that right. They were up 10-1 and intentionally walked in a run. The home run in the first was the only run we had scored. They got the next kid out to end the game...HOORAY! Parents cheered and seemed to have no issue with it. Smart baseball, right? Did I mention these are 10 year olds? Again, not a typo. We were the last seed for bracket play, played the same team in the first round, and they did it again when they again already had a sizeable lead. I spoke with the tournament director, who agreed he would talk to his rules committee about banning intenional walks for all 12 and under tournaments.

@stephenbowles3007 2 месяца назад

Why don’t local travel teams just play each other 1 week night game and 1 Saturday game and do small tourney a month or something? Youth ball seems pretty messed up these days!!!

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

100%

@KAM-zi9zl 2 месяца назад

Cause the parents won’t be able to brag how high level tournaments little Johnny is playing. 30 years ago you traveled as far as a BMX bike would take you

@ronpeacock9939 2 месяца назад

I have worked a few tournaments where the run differential is capped at the 5th inning run rule... often with tourneys.. 8 runs.. so if you win by 15 or 50... for the runn differential at the end... it's only 8. I still work with softball.. but stopped doing baseball because it is so cut throat it's not funny. To the point where 9 year old argue the strike zone.. rather than even try to hit the ball.

@chadbarringer3778 2 месяца назад

Gate fees are awful. In my years watching Travel Baseball, you always ran into that ONE Daddyball coach who thought he had to win at all costs. It took the fun out of watching games. The organization that Dan owned truly looked out for the players and was adamant about player development and arm care.

@joshottmann5656 2 месяца назад

tourniments are the worst ever, it's such a money grab, it's not about the game at all. 8am games should never exist. Gate fees should not exist (we are already paying to play in the tourney) and 3-4 games in a day should not be legal especially in the summer heat.... These kids are used up and worn down before they ever get to high school. Someone needs to come up some laws protecting our kids in sports. rules simply aren't enough.

@mathewwillenbrink142 2 месяца назад

Another big factor with tournaments is run rule. Really incentivizes team to run up to get to the run rule, so they throw fewer innings.

@sdcoinshooter 2 месяца назад

Not about tournaments but coach, PLEASE do a rule video on the bunt and 3rd strike out; I don’t get it.

@scottchampagne4096 2 месяца назад

All the travel ball tournaments in Cali cap Run Diff already. Runs Against tie breakers and Mercy rules, which saves pitching if you end the game early, incentive teams to keep top pitchers/players in longer.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

thats good. a lot of tournaments still dont, unfortunately.

@flickboogers9325 2 месяца назад

First time playing travel baseball with my 3 boys. Never knew about this 😂

@stephenbowles3007 2 месяца назад

Man. I’ve got 3 boys as well. I’ve gotta figure something out because a bunch of non baseball people have taken over the local little league and pretty much ran it into ground lol.

@garyroger3926 2 месяца назад

You start with the premiss that you have three teams tied after pool play, who moves forward in the tournament? You make a good point about run differentilal. What is the solution to for the three teams? Thanks.

@Rooster_king 2 месяца назад

Most tournaments don't rely on RD as the main tiebreaker they use runs allowed. Much better.

@MrPenprase 2 месяца назад

Great rant!!

@j5555785 2 месяца назад

Hi coach, wondering if you, or someone here, can speak into this..... Its very fruatrating. Im 41 yo - play in a very competive MSBL league. Ive become a pitcher again, doing well too. But I can't hit at all and pitch in the same game, and it sucks because Im batting 3rd and I do well as a batter when Im not pitching. Last game I started, five innings, and struck out 3 x as a batter. I couldnt even foul one off. It was miserable. Ive never failed that badly at the plate in my life. Any tips on pitching and batting in the samw game?

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

0-3 games happen. i wouldnt look into it too much. pitching burns up a lot of mental bandwidth. it's not easy to be focused on so many things.

@j5555785 2 месяца назад

@@DanBlewett thank you! That makes a lot of sense.

@DrumsByAdisa 2 месяца назад

When RA (Runs Allowed) is used to determine your seeding, like in Georgia, how do you incentivize not leaving good pitchers and defense in to keep the score down? You're phucked either way

@goosebeans3888 2 месяца назад

I think the only way to combat that would have the format require continuous order, and minimum participation requirements. E.g. no one sits twice until everyone else sits once..? Would probably ruffle a lot of feathers, though.

@user-ij6qz4yt9s 2 месяца назад

Run caps already exist with mercy rules.

@EdBadal 2 месяца назад

Yes, but they're like posted speed limits. Most people will obey, but some jerks still run up the score even with diff caps. Mercy rules incentivize better teams to get out of easy games quickly by scoring as much as you can as early as you can, which destroys morale for the other team, a critical component of youth development. Not saying they're discreetly bad rules, but they don't stop everyone from playing with a little honor.

@JustinBurgan-qw1dn 2 месяца назад

The PG tournaments are probably the same everywhere but in Texas we go by Runs allowed so in pool, as a coach, you never want to pull your best defense.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

same effect. terrible.

@harlanhuelle4050 2 месяца назад

The only solution is strict pitch counts it levels the field.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

how do you mean

@harlanhuelle4050 2 месяца назад

@@DanBlewett strict pitch count tournaments make the more powerful teams pitch the least experienced pitchers in pool play when they get a bit ahead. So they can save the studs for bracket play.

@DanBlewett 2 месяца назад

That's not necessarily true; pitch counts would still not level the field.

@sammy5908 2 месяца назад

Run rule

@torsch69 2 месяца назад

Good thoughts. I've been around both baseball and softball. Currently, I'm an assistant coach with a travel softball team. I see a lot issues with the format for softball tournaments. First of all, the days are long (if you are winning). One time, we played at 9:00 AM, and we made it to the finals, which were at 7:00 PM. We only played 4 games, but it was a 14 hour day. It's tiring and everyone is worn out by the time the finals roll around. The tournament directors need to figure out a better system. We've done some tournaments with 3 pool games, and single elimination in the bracket. Those are much better. 75 minute pool games and 80-90 minute bracket--you feel like you played. Secondly, as a coach, everyone plays, and while the playing time is not necessarily always equal, it is pretty darn close. If you pay, come to practice, and work hard, you play. There is too much focus on winning. The focus should be on development, having fun, building teamwork and learning the game. If you do those things, I guarantee the winning will follow because that is what happened with our team. We've been together for 7 years.