Why Save Shaun? A Moral Study in Fallout 4 

Gonna be honest, I left him behind in a fit of rage when I realised that I couldn't take one of the gorillas with me.

Synth Shaun: I am your true son! The Sole Survivor: I have a son, and his name is Dogmeat!

That child synth was adult Shaun's ego. His way of cheating death and attaining immortality in some way. Shaun was a monster. Cold, unfeeling, ruthless and cruel. This last gambit was a play to your emotions and paternal instincts. I see synths as living beings, sure. But that one... That one seemed like a sick joke. A cruel last stab at the parent they never knew. The only reason they even spared you in that vault was to satisfy their own curiosity. So I left them behind. They were not my son. My son died the moment Kellog ripped him from his mother's arms and shot her through the heart. What he left for me at the end was a mockery of what the Institute took away from me, corrupted and turned against me. But, that's how I personally saw it.

sturges: we're taking the kid tinker tom: We're taking the kid ingram: we'll leave him here

Shaun: "Dad help! I'm scared!" Sole Survivor: "Hi, Scared! Nice to meet ya, I'm Leaving!"

If synths don't age they would start to stick out pretty quickly.

I always felt Shaun/Father releasing the Sole Survivor was less of an experiment and more of an actual desire to meet his parent. He wanted to prove to himself that he was loved before his dies. The same reason he made the synth version of his younger self. He wanted to see the lengths you'd go for him, how much you love him. It's also why even if you're an enemy of the Institute he "gives you your son back", a part of him could have the family he never had

Father released you from 111 in the first place because he knew he was dying. I,e he allowed his sentimentality to get the better of him once he was facing the end. If you side with the Institute then you see that sentimentality of his slip out quite often in dialog. The most brazen display of this trait of his is when he names you his successor despite there being absolutely no logical reason to do so. Human beings are complex. His alpha male, stiff upper lip persona may have been what he needed to become in order to survive being raised by a bunch of scientists in labs, but that doesn't mean he's not emotionally damaged by knowing he was never meant to be there.

If Shaun's DNA was used to create all synths, does that technically make the sole survivor related to all synths?

When I first played fallout 4 an I got to the institute I just got so emotional an shot father in the head instantly not knowing he was Shaun lmao

If a chair could beg for it's life, I would spare it.

Shaun's dialogue is amazing. Brought him with me to Sanctuary. The kid is awesome, helps out on the farm and gives you free weapon mods if you bring him shit. Also helps make a settlement feel like home since all the other settlers must be celibate.

When you said if you join the BOS, you would kill all synths. But I joined them just to steal their fusion cores and power armors. LOL

Synth Shaun:please take me with you Sole survivor: uhh I need to get milk

I love saving Shawn because he has a bunch of funny lines based on who your current companion is like once I was walking around sanctuary and he went”you’re friend Cait says a bunch of funny words...most of them start with “f”

This is late but I feel like bringing Shaun with you would be continuing the Institute's legacy. The Institute will always have something up their sleeves and who knows what they did to "Shaun". He might think, act and look like a kid but when he gets older I'm hella sure, something will click inside and he starts to slowly become father. A last resort of the institute if they were to lose the battle.

“You would be crushing the dreams of the only physical connection to the pre-war world that you knew” Codsworth: 😢

The irony is that the brotherhood hates the institute and their synths yet they happily let this synth boy onto the prydwen

I wish the Far Harbor DLC had added an option for Nate/Nora to send Synth Shaun to live in Acadia. He'll never age, but then neither will any of the other synths around him and that's honestly his best chance at some kind of lasting normalcy.

It's worth noting that synth Shaun is technically your grandson because he's made with real Shaun's DNA.

I would have preferred a synthetic gorilla to synth Shaun. At least it could have made a great companion.

Brotherhood: IM NOT RACIST, I JUST HATE EVERYTHING THAT ISNT JUST LIKE ME Railroad: LETS GO LIBERATE SOME REFRIGERATORS

I've tried all paths. On the "moral" front I consider Codsworth to be a person, so synths being a person isn't that hard to believe.

"When you side with the institute, you buy the idea that synths are just machines" I joined the Institute because I thought I could tear that Ideology to shreds once I was put in charge of it.

Shaun's dying wish is not to have a childhood. It's to let his parent give him a childhood. Which is incredibly sad.

Don't let this distract you from the fact that once you return to Preston he's sure as shit going to have a settlement for you to help.. here.. let him mark it on your map

Honestly Shaun being a Synth child got me super angry, Father was trying to do good by letting the Sole Survivor have a fatherhood or motherhood but instead it just made me feel so angry at the Institute for what was basically the final insult: We took your child, you're never going to see them again, not without us and our technology

After the Silver Shroud quest I found my son, Kent Connolly the purest thing in this wasteland alongside my good boy dogmeat

In my playthrough I let him die, because in my mind Shaun has died, and this synth was a walking, talking reminder of everything that my charater lost and that was soemthing my character couldn't handle.

I think you missed the whole point. Father, after seeing your reaction the young synth Shaun when you first arrived in the institute, reprogrammed him. He didn't do it for himself, he didn't do it for his created synth, he did it for you. He wants to give you the chance to have the family you were deprived of when your child was taken away.

I just watched the Castlevania show on Netflix. Father reminds me of that Dracula. He keeps saying that he is super rational, but his actions are wildly inconsistent, ranging from psychopathical grandiosity to sentimental self sabotage. It actually makes a bit of sense to view his entire sole survivor project as an extended suicide. Why does he make a child version of himself? As a way to vicariously experience a better childhood than the one he had? As a way to try out parenting but without actual responsibility and the option to quit any time? As bait and bread crumb for his remaining parent when he thaws her or him out? As psychological leverage? Maybe a bit of all of these? The only thing I’m sure of is that his stated beliefs and motivations cannot be taken at face value. The moral question is easy. Child Shaun is a living feeling sentient beeing, and completely innocent of Fathers many crimes. You should save his creepy annoying little behind. But is it safe? Is he going to grow up into the kind of monstrous psychopath genius that Father was? Is he going to grow up at all, by the way? Cynths are assembled, not grown. It seems likely that his body will remain a childs while his mind ages. I know he acts like a child, but how much of that is just training and programming? He isn’t actually a child as we understand the concept. He can also build a legendary laser rifle from scratch, from scrap parts. What other abilities have father added to his programming? What other booby traps might be hidden in his programming? Or will he just remain clingy manipulative and childish forever? What kind of life can he have if he doesn’t age physically or intellectually? I’m not totally sure we’re doing him a favor. Is it healthy for a grieving parent to play act parenting with this perma-child substitute? I really doubt that. So for a variety of reasons I kinda wish the protagonist could walk away and let child Shaun burn with the rest of Fathers works. But of course, that’s not a thing my sole survivor could do, not in any version, not in any playthrough.

I know this is a 4 year late reply, but I've replayed this recently and I have a new viewpoint on this scenario. Initially I left Shaun behind on my first playthrough because I just thought of all synths as the enemy (obviously a BoS mentality) However I did save him on another character just to see what would happen. Having played this again recently, leaving Shaun behind is a simple but still challenging decision. I role play my character with who Nate was before the war, with a little bit of my own morals added in the mix, and I feel both Nate and my own experience as a father leads me to make the decision to leave Shaun because everything you journey through to get to this point was for the sole purpose of finding your son. Shaun isn't your son, and he never will be. Your son lived his own life, he grew up and made decisions of his own without Nate or Nora. Who he became cannot be replaced or altered by pretending that you get a second chance at raising your son. It isn't like adopting a child. Your choosing to pretend Shaun is something (or someone) that he isn't. It is sad, and to some immoral, but I personally believe that Nate (and myself) would respond to Shaun with a "No, you are not my son."

Shaun: "Make a synth that's a child version of me" Institute scientist: "Why?" Shaun: "Just do it"

Synth Shaun: IM A REAL BOY! Player:Pinocchio shut up Synth Shaun: Want a wazer wifle? Player:YES!

I feel that Father just has a lot of emotional detachment. He says he is personally a pacifist, but he's okay with violence if it's the only option. Father absorbing the synths are machines thing to hide his own 'love' for them just makes sense to me.

0:49 love how a synth trooper slide tackles Z1-14 to death

when I first played I sobbed when Shaun got taken even though there was a mod on that made him look like a butterfinger :/

No one: Child Shaun 6 Months After Saving Him: *ACTIVATING INSTANT KILL*

I’m so confused as to why Shaun couldn’t grow into a normal human? Gen 3’s are nearly made organically with the exception of the chip in their head. It makes sense to me that you could take Shaun and raise him like a normal human.

Synth Shaun is actually the Institute's newest infiltration and espionage unit, later version to the courser, capable of emotional reasoning and incubation tactics. You saw how easily the railroad let itself be infiltrated with Tinker Tom adopting him if the player doesn't. That's why father offers Shaun even if he is completely pissed off before he dies. The institute's primary goal has always been to make synths as close to human as possible. Much like Mayor Mc Donough, synth Shaun is the final bluff.

Head Canon: Synth Shaun holds all the data to and is programmed to recreate the Institute years down the road. Father is a zealot and wouldn't let what he's built be destroyed so easily.

"You can't truly save your son." -downloads Father companion mod. -Save Shaun -Show Shaun what atrocities the institute committed -Change Shaun's mind -Truly Save Shaun

I find your videos to be some of the most enlightening and intellectually challenging on all of RU-vid regardless of topic. As a parents with young children of my own I don't believe I could ever possibly let even a machine version of them die

I saved Shaun and send him to Old Longfellows cabin. He is his new father.

To bring synth Shaun with me was always what faction I'm in. Brotherhood: no. Railroad: yes. Minutemen: yes.

What if he only wanted Shaun to live because he implanted a copy of his consciousness in the kid to live on again, not to relive the childhood he never had. He knew the institute was doomed so he copied himself on Shaun to ensure the institutes survival. This sappy sentimental concept of an ending is sweet and all but father isn't an idiot and after everything he's done I just don't see he having a "coming to God" moment just because he's dying.

I think the fact that the young synth can’t ever grow up, and is forced to always be a child played my part in making him stay

I save him no matter what factions I join. The father in me just can’t leave a child behind.

"When you side with the institute, you buy the idea that synths are just machines" I just sided with them because I came all that way to save my son and I wasn't gonna give up because he grew up to be an egghead

I wish Shawn and billy (the kid in the fridge) could be friends

When he said Shaun is just a chair that talks. I lost it. Never played any of the fallouts but hearing the stories and comments from oxhorn make my day sometimes.

Shaun: “gives you the waser wifle” Me: um yes the greatest weapon ever

"It's not my son, it's a synth."

Maybe Father thinks this synth Shaun will take his place one day and recreate the Institute, fooling you by playing the "I have feelings" game. I seriously doubt he considers this young version of himself as real.

My character left it to die. Human, machine, what does it matter to her? She never wanted a son anyway. Not really. Her frantic parent searching for child persona was nothing more than a cover, a socially acceptable excuse she used to justify all the unspeakable things she’d done during her journey across the commonwealth… and her corresponding descent into whatever level of madness she currently resides. In a moment of self-reflection, she wonders, was she always like this, or did something in her change? When did she start to enjoy the killing so much? When did eating another person start to make sense, to even feel… satisfying? Was it after she was put on ice? After her husband died? After she… shot “Father?” Or did she always have this latent proclivity for evil? These thoughts plague her, but she knows she’s too confused to ever resolve them, and the answers, if there ever were any, are probably lost to time. What should she honestly do? All she can do is continue to move forward, even if that means the destruction of everything near to her. And everyone important to her? All of this rushes through her mind as she leaves the “kid” to his fate. For a moment she is almost tempted to look back, to see him one last time, but what would she see that she doesn’t already know?

How did baby shaun make the cold heartless decision that lead to the death of his neighbors? Wasn't the previous Institute leader responsible for that?

9:30 It wasn't his decision. It happened when the Institute took him. He was a baby back then, when the Institute turned off the pods opened his one, then turned back on only the one with the player in it. He was a baby back then when that happened.

I believe Father created Shaun so he can rebuild the Institute. Seems weird that he would have a change of heart at the very last moment like that for no soild reason

I do appreciate you playing Father's tape right in front of Shaun like, "YOUR LIFE IS A LIE KID!"

My guess is that Shaun is some kind of sleeper agent, to one day continue the work of the institute. This is especially possible if you destroy the institute. Or perhaps even some other mission that father didn't have the chance to complete.

Another reason to take Shaun is as a coping mechanism, the sole survivor refuses to fail in finding his/her kid and takes synth Shaun to make themself believe there is nothing wrong

I’ve always saved little Shaun. I mean he is a synth, but so is nick and Danse. Maybe after awhile he could be switched into a older body, like how curie was put into a synth body in her side quest.

It's a machine, man is man, machine is machine the two were never meant to be intertwined. This machine needs no more sympathy than the terminal that controls the teleporter

This video is 5 years old now and I've been playing fallout since pretty the release of fallout 4. I have a lot of hours in the game at this point and I NEVER knew it was possible to leave Shaun. When he asks to come with me I immediately say yes. It might just be a video game but I could not imagine leaving a child behind. I took him every time without hesitation.

Two items: Oxhorn assumes the tape was made during the final moments of the Institutes destruction. I always believed it was created beforehand, and if you kill Shaun before getting locked out of the Institute and before coming back with w/e faction you side with... you still get the tape. 2nd item: Father (Shaun) did not kill the other inhabitants of Sanctuary Hills. He didn't make the decision not to turn the life support back on. That happened the day he was kidnapped. There was only one back-up.

What if Shaun put himself into the boy so he could live his childhood with a parent

6:19 Nate's version for this dialogue hits harder. I expected Nora to have that dialogue hit as hard as Nate did but oh well. Anyways a settlement needs your help. Here, I'll mark it on your map.

The saddest thing is Synth Shaun will never age, but the Sole Survivor does.

6:27 so much emotion in his face

“He’s basically just a chair that can talk” that made me laugh way harder than I should have lol

I feel that Synth Shaun was created through madness. He will never grow up and be kind of a burden for whoever protects him. The only way I think he would have a decent existence would be to teach him anything you can and have him live at Little Lamplight. Maybe Doctor Amari can upload some knowledge into him to help train the Little Lamplighters in ways to survive out in the wastes

I roleplayed pretty heavily on my first playthrough. My character was the mother of Shaun, and she was a grieving widow post-thaw. She did her damnedest to improve things in the Commonwealth, but as soon as there was no on else to save, she immediately threw everything into finding and saving Shaun. When she finally met her boy, she was distraught to find out that her chance to raise her child had been stolen from her. Her son was now a grown man who viewed her more with academic curiosity than with familial affection. She nearly broke in this moment, but collected herself and attempted to salvage the situation. When she finally had to make a choice, she determined that there was nothing she could do to save Shaun in the end, and the Institute had to go. She expressed regret during the final conversation with Shaun, but followed through with the plan to destroy the facility. To suddenly be confronted with a known synth calling her mother felt like salt being thrown in an open wound. She acquiesced, but it was extremely painful for her.

About destroying your last connection to life before the war, I think Codsworth and the Vault-Tec rep are much more positive connections. Synth Shaun is a reminder that your true son (and spouse) is dead, as well as all of the killing you did to get to this point. Codsworth is a reminder of the good times because he's always trying to cheer you up and cracks jokes, he's basically the same friend you had before the war. The Vault-Tec rep is a reminder that despite all the horrible things that have happened, some pre-war ideals live on in you and him, and (if) when you take him in to Sanctuary, it shows that both of you together can move on and rebuild. Throuought the whole game, everyone in the Commonwealth tells you to fear the institute because they take people and replace them with a synth, which is exactly what they did to your son, only it's worse in your case because they're trying to guilt trip you into taking him because 1. he's a child, and 2. he's YOUR child. Ingram's response when you tell her he's a synth is fitting, because she's utterly appalled at the fact that the Institute could sink that low. Tom's response is fitting because he's taken aback but because of his Railroad ideals he has to take the kid somewhere safe. I wish there was an option where you personally could say that Shaun could escape with you, but he'd have to live on his own because it's really not fair to the SS that he/she was thrown this awful situation.

FO4: where's my baby, Shuan!? Heavy Rain: SHUAN! SHUAN! SHUAN!?

I didn't/never saved him. I decided that due to it being a gen 3 synth (I'm a die-hard BoS guy) I don't believe that synths should exist at all. Mainly because of their deceptive nature (blending with humans and acting as spies) so I left the child lookalike. I say lookalike because he isn't a child. He is a machine in the shape of a child.

The whole story of fallout 4 is is so great, and gives of an interstellar vibe to it, its just a work of art

I think it would have been a really cool plot twist in the game if you didn’t know he was a synth from the minute you saw him. Like if he had that behavior all along and could grab him and make your way out of the Institute only to be surprised later (like 75% of the way in when you’re deep into a war with the Institute) by the real Shaun who then shuts him down and tells you the truth.

So if I'm the father of the father, that makes me the grandfather of synth Shaun, or because synth Shaun is 100% Shaun DNA does that make me the father of synth Shaun as well as the father of Father, and does that make Father and me both synth Shaun's fathers? damn this shit is confusing.

You are literally the most interesting person that does videos like this I absolutely love all your videos

I always take Shaun with me. I don’t care. What route I do I always take him with me. He’s adorable.

Meh. nah. You got one thing wrong. When you were refrozen, Shaun was just a baby. It was the former director that made the decision to not refreeze the others.

Shaun is an Institute spy. He says all the right things to trigger feelings of guilt and remorse in the player. I hate being emotionally manipulated, and the sudden shift in tone from Father in the tapes from the hardcore murdering bastard to loving/remorseful wasn't believable. Just one last final manipulation, so while you push onward, protecting the little infiltrator unit as you go, it can go on about its business continuing the work of the Institute. Perhaps even to eventually setting up new Institute cells after you're gone. Less 'omg i regret everything!' and more 'oh fucking shit, its all going down in flames, how could this happen...wait, I know, 'come here Shaun...''

That part from Kid Shaun about death and becoming a synth really touched me, idk why but it just did...

Father "It's hard to believe that I'm related to you" makes me laugh every time

It's because of that final talk with Father that I always believed Shaun (synth kid) was a final middle finger... one last attempt at the same sort of manipulation of you that he's been about from the beginning. Why else program Shaun, which had to be done well in advance of your final assault, to believe you're his parent? He's enough of a psychopath to pull off that regretful sounding holotape and I absolutely believe that he's lying through his teeth while recording it. He's said himself: he doesn't understand or feel love or compassion. Suddenly he feels it towards this synth, a member of the slave race he's created and used horribly for decades? No. This is one last attempt to drag you around by the heartstrings. Take the kid to Amari and get on with your life. Edit Addendum: Same thing for the Institute ending, by the by. Father knows you're more emotional than him; most if not all vanilla dialogue options make this clear. He also knows that you have emotional attachments to the Commonwealth and the people thereof. He's not above using a synth to try and swing that towards favoring the Institute, and like any villain he'll happily embrace hypocrisy to get what he wants. Glossing over how he's referred to synths up to now? No problem, he's counting on his parent (whom he's ever been condescending toward) to not pick up on it, or simply not care after your 'emotional' goodbye with him and now this 'chance to have a family'. ....Joke's on him, if I'm starting a family with a synth, it'll be Curie and the children we adopt.

when i play games like this, i like to create a personality for my character and then get into their head. i make decisions based on what they would decide, not me. so when it came to the decision of leaving shaun to die or not, i left him to die. it would have been too painful for my character. the synth shaun was a reminder of my character failing to be there for her child as he grew. it was a reminder of her dead husband. and if she had to constantly see him, be by him, and take care of him after everything that had happened with the actual shaun? it was too much. i might be taking it too seriously but it just makes the game a lot more enjoyable and emotional for me idk

should have been an option to trick the "kid" and put the memories into a virtual reality so it can live a full life and out of danger for itself or potentially towards others

I am way late to this party but I think there's a moral part of this that isn't mentioned in this video. Shaun is a synth and as such will not age. That means that until he is killed he will always be a child. To introduce a child into the wasteland is one thing but to put a child into the wasteland that will never grow up is another. He will watch everyone he loves die over and over again until it drives him insane. I don't think allowing him to live is actually the moral choice. If he was an adult or even late teens maybe but as a child he will be psychologically damaged severely. Just my thoughts though.

I left that sucker there to die. No need for a kid when I have a dog with goggles

One last selfish act of father, he wants to live the life he missed having a life with parents, or maybe he deep down he knows he was brainwashed and feels a twinge of agreement with hour actions and feels you deserve a life with your son you fought so hard to find. And thus it's a selfless act

Father reveals what type of person he is when he called his own birth mother collateral damage

You know who would save him with exact same words? A synth.

Now imagine if he uploaded his consciousness into young shawn after doing his recording and the reason he asked to save him from the explosion is so he could live on how he should have with his father/mother

I saved Shaun, despite him being a synth. My character's ultimate goal was to try and rebuild his old life, with his kid (or something that can be his kid) in Sanctuary, and try and make the most of this new world that he stumbled into.

The way I see it, my Sole Survivor was scarred by the events inside Vault 111, and having to keep around an imitation of the son he witnessed being torn from his mother's hands would be a permanent, constant reminder of the biggest damn scar in his memory.

I just went through my first play through couple days ago.. I'm super late to the party obviously.. initially I hated the institute for stealing my son, and after hanging out with nick valentine, hated the institute for "enslaving" synths.. (role playing the sole survivor) but once I FINALLY got to the institute after like 50 hours of exploring and doing side quests.. I couldn't do it.. I did well not spoiling anything for myself about the story of the game.. I knew of "Father".. thats it.. once I met him and he told me he was shaun.. I believe that my character would want to spend the time with his son after going through hell and back trying to find out what happened.. I gave Father a bunch of shit in dialog for his actions.. setting me free.. my character being apart of some experiment being released from the vault.. but I ended up siding with the institute because I think that's what the sole survivor would end up doing. Shaun is the last thing tying the sole survivor to life as he/she knew it.. that was the entire reason for coming back was finding shaun.. avenging your spouse and trying to find the remnants of your family/life before the bombs fell. I didn't go along with Shaun/Father's idea though. I was helpful go the commonwealth as much as I could. When the minutemen showed up to defend the scientist who was wanted by the institute near the end to help power the nuclear reactor, I used my speech checks to keep everyone cool.. the guy ended up loving the institute later.. and there was no unnecessary bloodshed on either side. When Father asked to announce the Institutes presence to the common wealth I changed it from what he'd written down.. and I think the institutes methods up until my arrival were wrong to a degree.. but the technology they have would 100% safeguard mankind's ability to stay on top. But the ending made me cry a bit, not even gona bullshit yall man.. I got kids I just relate in that way. The story isn't written perfect.. Bethesda ain't perfect.. whatever. I absolutely loved the story for Fallout 4. LOVED. I ain't even done the DLC yet. Looking forward to that. The game was absolutely fantastic.. I'm a sucker for a good story.. I'm easily dragged into the meat of the story for games like this.. Fallout 4 has become one of my favorite games.. top ten easily. Sorry for the rant.. but I really enjoyed your video talking about this. I spoiled a little for myself as I've not seen anything outside of siding with the institute but I'm fine with it.. Definitely going to make a play through for each other faction and explore all the other dialog and interactions outside of the institute. 100% save synth Shaun everytime. As a father there's no way in hell I'd be able to leave my son... real or not.. behind like that. In any world. Thanks for the video.. and if you read my comment this far thank you for reading. Feel free to comment and discuss any thoughts. Have a good one yall. 👍 Edit: if anyone knows of mods or anything that add to the institute quest line or the vanilla quests, or anything that adds to the fallout story.. dialog.. character interactions.. or idk.. actually being able to Direct the institute as the director vs being an errand boy etc.. feel free to post them. I'd love to check them out. I play on Xbox so I'm not a modding wizard by any means lol thanks

Id be more concerned that Shaun is a Fail safe. given fathers attitude towards you if you turn against him. I would not be suprised in the least if at some point (possibly when YOU are on your death bed) Synth Shawn turns against you and trys to bring down everything you have built whether its the BOS, Railroad or Minutemen.

Ox: there is no ramification for not saving synth shaun, none of your companions hate you... Me: piper hated that... (at least from my experience, this happened)

I saved Shaun because I just didn’t want him to die and I wanted to see what you can do and build.

As others have said, maybe Old Shaun wanted to prove that he was truly loved by someone and that's why he released his parent to see if he loved him enough to meet him