Scott Toy Guru Neitlich from Spector Creatives provides the real world and in continuity reasons why Rattlor and Tongue Lashor changed their allegiance in the MOTU He-Man brand.
The Horde is an Equal Opportunity Employer It's really too bad that MOTU ended when it did. Having the Snake Men as Preternian villains who just lasted into the "present day" would have been cool.
In the 80's mini comic "King of the snake men" it's mentioned that Tung-lashor and Ratlor were snake men that joined the Evil Horde after King Hiss and the rest of the snake men got banished to another dimension by the counsil of elders, centuries ago. Later in the story Skeletor tells Kobra Khan to join the snake men and spy on them.
I always liked Hordak because he made masters feel more like a real world to me. When a story is binary, it just feels like a story that someone made up. When there's more than two sides, now you have a world populated by people with their own goals. :)
Your videos are fun and contain a ton of essential MOTU character and development info. I truly admire your depth of knowledge and your willingness to share it with the fans! Thanks for all you do for the MOTU community. Naysayers be smitten.
The Evil Horde was popular in Masters of the Universe just like the N.W.O. was in W.C.W. A Third party who is evil and doesn't care if you're a hero or villain. If you're not in the Horde, then you're an enemy no matter what.
7:42 Tung Lashor smiling so innocently lmao! Like he doesn't know he's evil. Even that slight smile on the old Skeletor toy makes me chuckle once in a while.
Kobra Khan is my favorite Snake Man. He appeared in the He-Man Cartoon, but later on he changed to become a memeber of King Hssss gang. But first he was an Evil Warrior of Skeletor. I see, that a lot of snakes changed their groups. Thank you very much for that video. Very well done.
My daughter asked about vintage female character toys. I showed her pics of the old line. She said She-Ra was too Barbie and laughed at the foofy battlecats. 9 years old and said "that's not very He-Man", though she was interested to learn about the other female characters. Yes she was disappointed there weren't more, but doesn't like the girly alternative. Like a spinoff that's different and doesn't look connected. How many times I had to explain to people in recent times that Ram-Man is a MOTU toy and agree it doesn't look like the rest
The Evil Horde is my preferred faction for the simple reality that--going by the canon post-early minicomics--there is no Skeletor without the Evil Horde, and the concept of Horde Prime and Horde World/Empire gives the vibe of an extremely powerful force of strategic tactical armies, all under one command. Skeletor is also often a little in over his head, usually. Hordak is *not*.
Yeah, I always wonder why they made Hordak a She Ra villain. And the Khan and Rattlor rivalry was crazy. In truth, Khan was the one who had the most successes when you compare the two.
I have never seen one episode of the Shera cartoon.. And i never would thought it had better ratings that the HE MAN show.... I only had a coupe of MOTU figures as a kid because I was so heavy into GI Joe but i did have Trap Jaw and Kobra Kahn... While i didn't get the figures i was blown away by the ads for both the evil horde and snake men figures ....those ads worked they really made me want those figure i'm actually surprised i never got any of them .... I don't know if i could watch the sheera cartoon now, it always looked geared more towards a female audience and it was a hard watch to go back as view the He Man cartoon esp later episodes that i wasn't familar with ...
I’m one of the younger MotU fans being born in 1983. I didn’t know about King Hsss/Snake men faction until 200X era. Furthermore didn’t know that they were as finite of an idea in the 1980s until Spector Creative. Thanks TG!
That actually explains why Tunglashor was in the She Ra Netflix cartoon. Wait… now that I think about it that series also redesigned Double Trouble into something more Reptilian looking than the original design. And I’ve seen artwork (likely fan art) of classic Double trouble with a kinda snake form that she could shape shift into (that I’m sure the original toy didn’t do but stay with me here). So with that in mind it wouldn’t be that much of a Stretch if, in some other reboot or a spinoff from Netflix she ra, someone Retconned Double Trouble into being one of The Snakemen (Snake-people?) similar to what happened to Kobra Khan, or how These 2 were Retconned Into Being in the Horde.
I remember as a kid wondering about the line in the first Snake Men mini-comic where when Skeletor & Hiss make Rattlor & Tung Lashor appear Khan says they are members of the Horde. As a kid I didn’t see the She-Ra eps with them and had only seen Rattlor working for Skeletor in the Christmas Special
It's actually mentioned in his bio that he's a Klybian lizard man from another planet and that his races dna was one of three used to create the Snake Men. His people are actually natural enemies of the Snake Men & he has a personal hatred for King Hiss & his minions.
Another fun & informative vid. One thing I'd wanted to address is a notion you & some of the other MOTUPOP toy collectors have frequently said, which I PROFOUNDLY disagree with, namely, the notion that the who-owns-what of the convoluted MOTUPOP rights mess doesn't matter so much "as long a the toys continue to be produced." While certainly one hopes the toys will continue being produced, the toy production is far from all that matters to fans, and the rights issue affects other areas, especially the entertainment aspect ( television & movies in particular ) which are of great interest to many fans, & indeed MANY more fans ( exponentially more ) than than the much smaller community dedicated to buying the collectors' toys ( fun aside, since you mentioned the old "action-figures" vs. "dolls" issue, I recently read a brief history on G.I. Joe which noted how when the G.I. Joe doll was first produced, it was recognized for exactly what it was, i.e. a doll, not all that dissimilar from Ken beneath the military uniform: the marketing teams assessed that many boys would feel uncomfortable [ thanks in no small part to their parents & other adults in their lives lol but also smh ] playing with a toy with the descriptor of "doll" so they came up with the more masculine euphemism of action-figure... to describe their doll lol ). The toy's are wonderful, but ultimately they are primarily tangible objects meant to allow fans dierect interaction with the characters & their stories: ultimately it is the characters & stories which define the mythos/franchise: without those, there would be nothing to set He-Man & She-ra apart from generic dolls of Joedoer the barbarian and Janedoera the shieldmaiden of the fairies. And, movies & television have long been the dominant media of the official ( that most fans can agree happened, as opposed to the headfics, or to the fanfics that have emerged in this internet age ) stories of modern era pop-culture mythos and their characters. The rights issues of MOTUPOP matter so much, well beyond just the question of more toys/collectors' figures being issued, because the entertainment rights affect what television & movie content fans will get. And, as noted, there are many more fans who will watch a well done MOTUPOP show than will pay hundreds of dollars for scores of collector toys & figurines. And the rights issue seems to be playing a factor in, frankly, threatening to tear the mythos & franchise apart. One thing for which I believe you, Scott, & the rest of the MOTUClassics team deserve lots of love, for from ALL MOTUPOP fans who care at all about both sides of the franchise or about it's original Mattel+Filmation era 80s lore, is the great work you did in properly reuniting both sides of the mythos/brand under one banner ( and FINALLY getting them all together in minicomics for the first time since the 1984 Story of She-ra minicomic that first introduced her and the POP side!! ). You know by now that I'm a fervent advocate for keeping MOTUPOP unified ( or, at this point, fully reunifying it ), and the separation in recent reboots on the Dreamworks versus Mattel side goes right at the heart MOTUPOP, battering one of its core foundational pillars. He-Man & She-ra being twins is both one of the greatest stories and also most famed features of the mythos/brand. He-Man and She-ra being twins comes in just behind He-Man and Skeletor being enemies as the most pop-culture famous/recognizable features of the mythos & brand. There are casual fans who don't know whether the original cartoons were produced by Filmation or by Hanna-Barbara, and who don't remember whether the toys were made by Mattel, Hasbro or Fischer-Price, who STILL know the following key mythos-facts: that He-Man is the superpowered hero who fights the evil Skeletor, and that Sheira is He-Man's equally super-powered twin sister. It's about as integral to the MOTUPOP mythos as Luke & Leia being Anakin Skywalker's/Darth Vader's children is to the Star Wars mythos: and, for all Disney's faults, one thing they are almost certain to NEVER do is create Star Wars expansions where Luke & Leia "aren't" Vader's kids ( in part because they know an army of that fandom would likely show up to the studio with pitchforks * insert Simpsons meme * ). As long as the rights determine who can put what and whom on television or in a movie, and with whom else, the rights issue really does matter quite alot, because it plays a role in determining how the dominant stories of the MYTHOS will be told moving forward ( even if they're never again as prominent or dominant as they were back in their heyday when the He-Man & She-ra: Secret of The Sword movie came out or when the twins and their enemies were featured together on a giant Macy's Thanksgiving day parade float that linked Castle Grayskull and The Crystal Castle together... and, yes, there is youtube footage of it lol ). I will say this though... the rights issue CAN AND SHOULD be worked around by the respective rights holders for the good of the franchise & fandom ( to the extent that the rights holders give a s**t ). I continue to INSIST, if Disney & Sony can get Spiderman and the only-tangentially-related-to-him Avengers together on screen in media entertainment and unified stories, NBCUniversal, Dreamworks & Mattel can certainly properly reunite ( & maintain the unity of ) TWIN SIBLINGS He-Man & She-ra.
Interesting stuff, I hadn't realized Tung Lashor and Rattlor were going to ally with Hordak had the MYP show continued. Wasn't there also some uncertainty at Mattel back in the 80s over which faction they were going to be packaged with? I know they both appeared as minions of Skeletor in the unproduced "Escape From Terror Island" minicomic, and if Mattel was uncertain whether to package them as Evil Warriors or Horde members before coming up with the Snake Men faction, that would explain why they were confusingly shown serving both Hordak and Skeletor in separate episodes of Filmation's She-Ra...
I like the artworks. My buddies and I in our school days would get a big piece of tagboard and start in different areas draw all these things going on until the whole board was filled. Usually some medieval battle with a castle, knights, and maces. Defenders of the castle walls and the armies attacking, and climbing to get in
How come skeletor did not have an army builder in the original line? I know we got the horde trooper at the end of the vintage line. I would love to have seen a Ray Harryhausen skeleton warrior
That would have been totally metal. I would have settled for getting his robot knights too- they could have even reused Orko's "ripcord powered run around like an idiot" action feature too
I think the Snake Men didn't work as well as planned. The Horde was actually BETTER than Skeletors band of rejects. So...let's just make them all Horde guys...cause SURPRISE Skeletor was a side Horde guy...kinda.
@@godofzombi Most famously they team up in the 1st ever MOTU movie, the He-Man & She-ra: The Secret of the Sword movie that introduces both She-ra, Hordak & the Horde into animation. Skeletor was with Hordak when Hordak abducted infant Princess Adora from Prince Adam's side. That Hordak & Skeletor team up of former master & apprentice also didn't last lol, as Skeletor holds onto Adora and causes Hordak to be shoved back through a dimensional gate into Etheria.
Right, more about Hordak on the German Audios. More precisely about Factions or the lack thereof, basically. Both, the Horde and the Snake Men, are factions in name only for the most part. They are not really independent factions, though. All the bad guys were basically allies, working together to overthrow the King and make Skeletor the new Ruler of Eternia. The Snake Men came in late, of course. They were instantly allies. Unfortunately they didn't do a lot. King Hiss appeared onyl two or three times, if I remember correctly off the top of my head. Even worse, in his 1st appearance Skeletor had some special plans that would make any direct conflict (as in combat) unnecessary. So, he and his Snake Men didn't really have anything to do in that 1st appearance. One interesting thing though: Stonedar and Rokkon also made their debut in that episode. They came to Eternia because they learned of the Snake Men's arrival. In that canon they were the ancient enemy of the Rock People (= Felslinge). They called them "Die Sippe der Schlangenmenschen". Which translates to either "The Clan .." or "The Kindred of the Snake Men". Anyway, they didn't do much. I think Kobra Khan didn't have an appearance in that episode. But I'd have to check to be sure. Hordak came earlier. Also, he was instantly there to help Skeletor. They've had some little conflict early on, kinda questioning Skeletor's leadership. They had a short combat by sword and Skeletor easily overpowered his former Teacher. A little later Skeletor actually became King of Eternia by some ancient Scepter that gave him absolute power. Hordak showed discontent with Skeletor as King and even helped He-Man make his point (the power came with a prize that could've meant the end of Eternia). About two episodes later the Horde followed a plan of conquest of their own. Skeletor had do work with He-Man to resolve the situation. It's a bit of a strange episode. Mainly because Hordak, the cause for all the trouble, didn't even have a speaking role in that one. So, the episode doesn't work in establishing the Horde as a threat of its own. Which might not have been the intention. I can't tell. However, it also had no consequences. Hordak and Skeletor were buddies again and it never got mentioned. In the five-part-finale Hordak even accepts Skeletor as King and personally inaugurates him.
I hope they do the entire Horde, male & female... at the least og Catra ( the rights to characters like Scorpia are probably more complicated ), who appears on the 35th anniversary She-ra box art with a version of Clawdeen who looks fierce enough to take on Panthor without flinching. Frosta & Castespella too, since both are first wave She-ra characters whom Mattel had better rights claims to, and also because they ( unlike some of the hyper-"girly" characters ) fit in well with the rest of the masters side of the franchise and mythos, about as much as the Sorceress in their way.
You said Rattlor and Tongue Lashor were the only Snakmen to appear on the Filmation shows, but Kobra Kahn appeared in the Filmation MOTU show, granted before they were officially "Snakemen".
I'd love to see that, they do great interviews, & he's a font of info & stories. Why don't they contact him here on youtube, he's generally really great about responding to folks.
Is The Horde really more popular than Skeletor's henchmen? I couldn't tell if you were being serious or that was a joke... It seems unreal to me, because none of them have the pop culture status of a Skeletor, Beast Man or Evil Lyn.
@@mikeisernie how are characters like Mantenna, and Modulok not silly? I'm being serious, not sarcastic. The old cartoons even portray Hordak pretty silly. It was just the tone of those shows...
@@tompollockjr144 Skeletor succumbed to the power of x-mass. the Horde never did. I think with the Horde it's that they have the balls to take on both He-man AND Skeletor. And She-ra in the cartoon. And they didn't get along with the snake men either. Man they just took on everybody!
But when the She Ra Toyline and Series came out MOTU Sells DROPPED like NEVER before!! So how can "the Horde" be more liked by Fans than Skeletors Monster Warriors!???
A yes, the Mattel Girls Group, the enemies of all mankind. I do like a few Snake Men being Evil Hordsemen? Horde Warriors? Horde Members? Whatever, with the way the Horde was designed they're the perfect group to have some all the different evil people in it, especially if you read Grizzlor as a different Beastman Person.
The Evil Horde definitely appear to be more popular in Masters Of The Universe. The Snake Men are a great faction too. Some of the best 1982-1987 figures were these factions.
7:46: This also caused a revised version of Rattlor that was released to match his She-Ra Princess Of Power appearance. Was there ever a Msssterss of the Universse Classsicsss verssion of hiss alternate Ssshe-Ra appearance?
My sister had a couple of the "She-Ra"-figures. She actually used the Mask in the right way. Face covered - She-Ra, face not covered - Adora. Funny enough she didn't have a secret identity in the audio plays. They were pretty awful, if I remember at all correctly. More for girls I guess. Same publisher as the MotU-Audios. Anyway, everybody knew who She-Ra was. including Catra who was the only villain they had. The Horde were part of the MotU-Audios (minus a few characters without any appearance). Catra's only ally was her own version of Battle Cat, if you will. I think she was called Claudine or something.
I think Hordak and company were a unique idea with them being at group who not only wanted to destroy the protagonist but the antagonist as well.snake men were ok but never seemed like as big a threat.do you think there were too many villain factions or that one faction should have taken over as the main antagonist?
Good video. I really enjoyed the visuals (more than usual) on this one. Question: and perhaps you can do a video on this: He-Man appeared in approximately 7 episodes of She-Ra. Why not more? Could’ve led to more “He-Man line characters” being shown.
He appeared in double that number. He-Man is in nearly 20% ( 14 episodes out of 89, with two more episodes that feature just Skeletor, and another two that feature Orko, & one featuring the dragon Granymyr ) of the She-ra cartoon, and that's IF you don't include the primetime Christmas special and the 5 pilot episodes that were just a serialized version of the Secret of The Sword theatrically released movie which ( aside from being the 1st ever He-Man & MOTU movie ) introduced She-ra. If you do include those, He-Man is in over 20% of She-ra's episodes ( as the 14 then goes up 20, 21 if you count the Christmas special as 2 episodes, which it would have been had it aired during the day as a normal She-ra or He-Man episode, due to its length ). The reality is, Filmation, via the cartoons, did a VERY good job of keeping MOTUPOP unified & He-Man & She-ra integrated, essentially making She-ra a 3rd & 4th ( or 4th & 5th, depending on if you count the split second half of He-Man's 2nd season as a 3rd season ) season of He-Man and the masters of the universe, but with a shift in focus from the brother ( He-Man ) to the sister ( She-ra ) being the lead. It was the toy side which, in their minicomics, allowed dumba$$ gender wars & factional garbage slime things up on their end. As it surely interests you, all the episodes are on youube on the masters of the universe official/He-Man & She-ra official channel. The Secret of The Sword movie is on there, of course, and the Christmas special, and these are the 14 She-ra other episodes featuring He-Man: 1) King Miro's Journey ( featuring the twins grandfather ), 2 ) He ain't heavy, he's my brother ( deliberately like that old 60s song ), 3 ) Sweet Bee's Home ( an all time favourite, behind the movies, in which Frosta fervently tries to give He-Man tha booty!! lol ), 4 )The Eldritch Mist ( in which Castespella tries to give Prince Adam tha booty), 5 ) The Price of Freedom, 6 ) Gateway to Trouble ( in which Modulock quits Skeletor's service and joins Hordak, but not before Skeletor comes to Etheria and makes a scene ), 7 ) Lookee Lends a hand, 8 ) Day of the flowers 9 ) Just the way you are 10 ) She-ra makes a promise 11 ) The Inspector, 12 ) Horde Prime takes a holiday ( in which Skeletor battles Hordak for control of Horde Prime's flagship ), 13 ) A Talent for Trouble ( wherein Orko becomes besotted with She-ra ), and 14 ) Assault on the hive: Episodes which feature Skeletor without He-Man are 1 ) My friend, my enemy ( in which Skeletor and Catra conspire to poison Hordak, and only the compassion of She-ra saves him ), and 2 ) Of Shadows & Skulls ( in which Shadow Weaver aligns with Skeletor to unseat Hordak.
I loved Tung Lashor in She-Ra. He was funny. I was disappointed the figure bore so little resemblance to him. The minicomic mentioned that Tung Lashor and Rattlor had been with the Horde but were going to serve King Hiss now that he had returned even though the minicomics had never shown them with the Horde..
Do you have any insight as to why even seasoned sculptors/engineers keep screwing up weapon holding hand wrist articulation. Such as for example, why He-man couldn't hold his sword aloft until the filmation figure?
It's kind of funny you say She-Ra and the princesses of power was more popular than any man. Bad enough he man was broadcast on a UHF station locally. But we never got Princess of Power. Or if we did they put it on a time I never got to see it. I knew it existed I saw the Christmas special. And I saw the Random episode every once in awhile on higher up cable channels I didn't have at the time. But having watched the whole thing on Netflix I prefer Masters of the Universe over princes of power.
All evidence is there is, & remains, blame to go around on both sides. The "boys" team took an exclusionary & male-chauvinist approach to She-ra once they weren't doing the toy, the girl's side was full of female-chauvinism, trying to make She-ra more "her own thing", both sides focused more on the divide than the story, to the detriment of all. I think fans owe SO much to Lou Schiemer and the Filmation team for doing things essentially the RIGHT way from the moment the ball was in their court. Mattel's teams came up with the idea of He-Man having an equally epic twin sister, probably even including the Hordak abduction, but Filmation REALLY STUCK with it and gave it the prominence it deserved, and it is largely thanks to them that it became a core pillar of the entire mythos. The Classics team, under Scott's helming, did a really great thing for the whole franchise when they properly reunited both sides of MOTUPOP under the single MOTU banner. What Mattel SHOULD have done in the 80s was taken a hardline with both the "girls" and "boys" teams and said "you're working TOGETHER on this one", and insisted that, like the 1984 Story of She-ra minicomic which introduced She-ra did, the minicomics moving forward have a significant number of issues, on BOTH sides of the brand, that continued to feature BOTH He-Man and She-ra & their respective casts, just as the cartoons did.
What was the copyright conflict with Rattlor? I never could figure out what other brand that conflicted with. Also, I think Fisto had a name change on the package as well. What were the other copyright owners for those names at the time?
I didn't get a mini comic packed with my 2002 Heman set, but the DVD extras did include a link to the script to read what happened to King Hsss after his battle with Zo-Dak and further plot points! A great read indeed!
Going to admit old enough there day one so to me it's he man and skeletor the first 2 waves my thing and got them now in origins. I have some from later 84 85. Later in college i got sorceress horde trooper My brother younger got horde so did I and they are awesome creatures like skeletor crew she ra figures had bow but was not into and never new snake men until was in collage I new of kobra Khan that's it
I am amazed to hear that the Horde was the most popular. I always thought they were pretty lame-o compared to the originals (Trap-Jaw, Evil-Lyn, Merman etc...). Amazed that I am in the minority on that. Hordak and company always seemed like they were too cartoony and inept (the reason I never liked Beast-Man).
The horde recruitment center had an amazing record for getting people in the faction.... I think the inclusion of the slime pit in the facility helped. 😀
I've got love for all three evil factions but there's no way the Horde's more popular in the fandom than Skeletor & his evil warriors. Skeletor's part of pop culture, you don't see Hordak or King Hiss on t-shirts/posters honoring the iconic 80's cartoon villains, you see Skeletor. I really like the Horde but they're FAR behind Skeletor & the original group in terms of recognition and impact.
Scott, I actually really love your videos. But I must say that you're intro is literally the most annoying thing on RU-vid. It's not epic. It is obnoxious.
The horde is the most popular according to who exactly? What fans were polled? When were they polled? What age group? Where’s the actual documentation? Or is this another “I’m scooter and it’s true cuz I worked at mattel” thing. Shut me up by providing proof.
@@Thundera2908 Probably among fans. There's no doubt that Skeletor is better known: He-Man & Skeletor are the most pop-culture known & prominent, for good reason, followed by She-ra as He-Man's twin. I think, among in deep fans who can name more than 6 characters without having to struggle, the Horde has always been very popular.
