Why the Fellowship’s Reaction to the Balrog is so Interesting | Lord of the Rings Lore 

Yeah it's why this passage really struck me, such a cool piece of writing

@@willemsma, even before that though. When the Fellowship was struggling to make headway up the mountain in an unnatural blizzard, Legolas was walking on top of the snow in his light shoes, cracking jokes.

did he see Gondolin and Glorfindel?

@@ir8free nope

I liked how this was translated into the film. It's obvious Legolas is the only one who knows what Gandalf is talking about. He put so much into that one look of frozen terror.

No need to apologise, you owe us nothing. Get well soon

hope you feel better soon

Power levelled so hard 😖

The loot was legendary tier but only Evil characters could use it. Gandalf got some legendary crafting material out of it tho... ... But still... I suspect the white staff he got was Pay To Win.

@@mussardlucien6355 - Who sees and hears more, Manwë and Varda, or Google?

I thought of that initially, though as far as I know only Elves that have been to Aman are able to live both in the spiritual and physical world

@@GeekZoneMT I think irrespective of their presence in the unseen realm, elves are just a bit more...in touch with such things. Feeling rather than seeing.

You can get a lot of Balrog lore from Tolkien's other work though. That whole Morgoth storyline features them prominently.

@@davideberhardt6150 That's my point. People who've only read the trilogy, or seen the films, don't have that whole perspective. In a way, it's a pity, because the lore is so incredible. But in another way, it leaves us with such a sense of mystery and bewilderment; a sense that this creature is WAY more than just another evil monster. And I love that.

Thank you Tannith 😁

Erm, those are indeed great Men for sure but "no Elf"...are you sure? I'm fairly sure Fingolfin challenging Morgoth to fight not once but _twice_ at Angband (the first time, Morgoth didn't come out) comes quite high on that scale. He also called Morgoth craven the second time around. "Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld... the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came. That was the last time in those wars that he passed the doors of his stronghold, and it is said that he took not the challenge willingly; for... alone of the Valar he knew fear. But he could not now deny the challenge before the face of his captains; for... Fingolfin named Morgoth craven.... Therefore Morgoth... issued forth clad in black armour; and he stood before the King like a tower, iron-crowned, and his vast shield, sable unblazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud. But Fingolfin gleamed beneath it as a star; for his mail was overlaid with silver, and his blue shield was set with crystals; and he drew his sword Ringil, that glittered like ice." And it was a half-Elf who slew Ancalagon the Black too, and one half of the duo that threw down Sauron in single combat was an Elf. The only people to enter inside Angband (without an army) willingly to take Morgoth on were a Man, it is true (Beren) but also half-Elf half-Maia (Luthien). The dwarves also faced down Glaurung when he first revealed himself, and forced him to flee from their axes. There's plenty of courage all around, if you go looking for it.

@@sweeperboy Fingolfin was certainly courageous; but he like all Elves was bound by the Music of the Ainur, which as Tolkien says, is as Fate to all other beings in Arda(besides Men). Fingolfin never would have won that duel even if he was three times the Elf lord he was, because he doesn't have the ability to act outside of Fate. Also Earendil wanted to be judged as a Man, but only because of his wife Elwing(who wanted to be judged as the Eldar), did Earendil choose to be judged as an Eldar too. About Luthien too: she choose to give up her benefits as an Eldar and half-Maiar, and chose to be judged as a Mortal to be with Beren even after Death. Her case is very unique anyway since she and Beren are the only one's to ever be released from the Halls of Mandos to live a second life in Middle Earth(it seems they only lived a few decades because the Silmaril was too great a strain on them both). I was gonna bring up the Lord of Belegost stabbing Glaurung and driving him away in my first post; even though it cost him his life, he only managed to lightly wound Glaurung and make him retreat, he didn't deal him a deadly or even a crippling blow. Fingolfin only challenged Morgoth once to single combat. He repeated the challenge a few times but that still counts as a single challenge; its not like Morgoth declined, then he rode back the next day and did it again, and again, until Morgoth accepted. Morgoth HAD to take that challenge because his most powerful captains including Gothmog and Sauron were watching closely how he would respond. I'm not saying there's not courage to be found in all the good races of middle earth. There definitely is. But only the race of Men have the power to do what is nearly unthinkable for other races, because of their ability to act outside of the Music/Fate. They are far more unpredictable than any Elf or Dwarf. And Hobbits being an offshoot of Men have some of this courage, though because they're so small they don't have a great deal of martial prowess; though Pippin does manage to slay a Troll Chief at the battle of the Black gate, a being many times his own size that normally would have crushed him to death. Same with Merry and Eowyn vs the Witch King; the Nazghul's powers and their very lives were bound irrevocably to Sauron a Maia at that point(so I assume they would follow the same "rules" aka being bound to the Music of the Ainur as their master), and despite being inferior warriors to the Witch King, Merry's barrow blade breaks the spell making the Witch King invulnerable to conventional weapons, allowing Eowyn's stab to kill the Witch King.

This guy! 👍

Interesting point. I hand't thought of that.

Where in the text does it say men can act outside the music?

You're welcome :)

Do you have a "Captive" sticker? 😉

That's just from the movies, we're never told anything about his mum in the books :)

As Gandalf said, "this foe is beyond all of you". We don't know whether the Dwarves were unable to injure it, but they couldn't kill it. After taking Moria, the Balrog slept a long time. Maybe it was recovering from wounds inflicted in the battle? I don't think that Aragorn believed he could succeed in killing Sauron; the attack on the black gate was a feint to distract Sauron from Frodo and Sam.

Cheers Andrew!

You're welcome mate!

Thanks Marine, glad you enjoyed it! 😁

Sometimes 🥲

This comment perfectly encapsulates my thoughts 🤣

he didnt know him nearly as long as Aragorn did. he knew OF him through news and tales, but he wasn't personal friends with Gandalf until the Fellowship was formed. Aragorn on the other hand knew Gandalf for a LOONG time before all LOTR books even begin.

"Faith" in somebody in life/death situations is build with time/experience more than reputation. While Gandalf's reputation was excellent among Elves, I don't think Legolas shared many hours in Gandalf's company before the Fellowship was created.

To Aragorn, at best Balrogs would be creatures of legend. Legolas' grandfather Oropher actually would have fought against them (or at least at the same sort of time, even if he didn't fight against them himself). While Legolas may or may not have met Oropher personally to ask about it, certainly Thranduil would have known about Balrogs, being Oropher's son. It's therefore inconceivable to me that Legolas wouldn't have had at least third-hand experience of what a Balrog is growing up. Secondly, the Balrog would have entered the songs and tales of Elves in a way that it is completely more intense and present than any history written by Men. In short, I don't think it was about understanding at all. Gandalf probably didn't reveal himself in power to the degree of breaking the bridge very often and most likely Aragorn had never seen it. In fact, Aragorn seemed to think that Gandalf couldn't take the Balrog... 'He cannot stand alone!' cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. 'Elendil!' he shouted. 'I am with you, Gandalf!'

Yeah that's one of my favourite Balrog artworks tbh

The cg tech at the time would not have been able to do that image justice and it still barely might. For the movie the pure demon motif works better than the fallen angel/lucifer angle. Its easier to explain to different cultures with few words. While a different balrog interpretation will be interesting if they try to remake the movies in like 30 years, i think the balrog we got worked tremendously well compared to any cgi in the starwars films around the same time.

Smaug would probably win. Apparently in the books Balrogs are only about twice the size of an elf, making Smaug enormous size wise.

@@Zantides But what about power because Balrogs are Maia so would that make a difference?

@@Zantides SIze isn't everything, as the Balrog found out when defeated by someone less than half his size. That being said, it wouldn't have been an easy battle for either Smaug or the Balrog.

@@sweeperboy Size is irrelevant, and the Balrog was of man-shape, maybe but greater, but what mattered was its power as a Maia against Olorin, another Maia (and his sword).

Hard to say tbh, though my gut feeling would say that the Balrogs should be more powerful

So what?

@@sirandrelefaedelinoge so what? Vinger in je gat.

Yeah something like that :)

you will, now cope

@@Pinguinese They all got lucky, including Sauron. He would never get Smaug the magnificent to join his pathetic campaign. Smaug would just do few flyovers and the whole army of Mordor would need years to rebuild. And if Smaug wasn't so merciful, he would have eaten Bilbo and taken the ring of power for himself. Then, Smaug would have corrupted the ring, not the other way around, and the whole Middle Earth would have been happy and sing songs of praise to the great and magnificent Smaug, king under the mountain.

@@Pinguinese Sam killed Shelob, Merry killed witch king of Angmar, Frodo killed Sauron and PIpin killed Gandalf. I would not underestimate the power of hobbits, but with that said, Smaug would eat all four of them and still be hungry. Smaug would never follow Frodo like Sam did. He would take the ring from Frodo easily, not hindered by human weaknesses like loyalty or friendship.

@@Pinguinese then it is settled, we will found the church of Smaug tomorrow and never pay taxes ever again.