Why the Heartline Coaster is so Terrible 

How about a puzzle-park with a checkerboard-like fencing layout? Funzinnu, a Korean channel, streamed footage of such a park. Really good channel for puzzle-park streams, eve if most footage is a few months to several years old.

I came into the comments specifically to suggest this. Now I'm sad.

Only Spiral Slides challenge

In recent OpenRCT2 versions, it get an pretty good exitement buff, and a small nausea buff

Also better then the space rings.

That’s some interesting RCT/real life ride lore

I hear this a lot but a big problem is that at the end of the day, putting a cool and unique looking roller coaster in your game and then making it suck isn't exactly a good experience for your players and the game, so it doesn't really explain anything.

Clearly we need a "park is Japanese" flag to buff it

I think its a bit more simple than that. I think Chris Sawyer just made the stats based on his personal experience riding the Coasters during his travelling after TTD's success. And so he just did not enjoyed (that much) riding the 'Heartline' so he gave it bad stats in the game.

Chris Sawyer is from UK, not USA. I don't know if UK had any Togo's

At least you know, it was never your fault.

Yep, you can confidently say that it was the coaster itself that was the problem, not your design

John Wardley did indeed find Arrow's pipeline prototype boring, although Chris Sawyer based his pipeline coaster in RCT on TOGO's model. My guess is that Sawyer gave it bad stats for two reasons: Wardley's thoughts on Arrow's prototype, and TOGO International's poor ride quality. While TOGO's Japanese rides are all or mostly well-regarded, their rides outside of Japan were and are known to be rough and unpleasant.

@@reillywalker195 i kinda wonder if the ride stats are based part on real world on how popular a ride is also heartline vertical lift in japan ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fqCXRVuT83A.html

@@knightwolf3511 it’s possible the RCT Ultra Twister is specifically based off the Astroworld version at the time because of the 45° lift

I wish they'd included the Arrow Prototype pipeline coaster in one of the RCT2 expansions. If that ridicoulous 4-accross dive that is more like a wild mouse got in when none were ever built I wish it had, RCT3 is just ugly to me tbh (since it is on there, and also buggy city).

The coaster you're talking about is the Arrow Pipeline, not the Heartline shown in the video. The Pipeline prototype is really obscure but found its way into RCT3

This could apply either to Marcel or Chris Sawyer, and it would still be true.

It's like what Marcel said in his "all coaster types in one sentence" video. What exactly did the Heartline do to Chris Sawyer that made him make the coaster THAT terrible? But to play devil's advocate and to reference the end of the video, the Heartline is just there for the memes at this point.

the heartline coaster killed my family

i honestly like it despite its flaws, becuase it's buffed in open rct2 and being fun to build is just as important as having useful stats imo. Meanwhile marcel takes the fattest shits on this poor tube coaster thing

Id love this, if only to make them more like the real thing. The vertical lift is so cool IRL.

​@@axeliasalaria8905 The best part is how they tilt into it, it's something straight out of imagination.

@@axeliasalaria8905 It actually is based off a real one, it's based off of Ultra Twister at Six Flags Astroworld. It had a 45 degree but the transfer piece was mechanical not the off thing in the game

Maybe a new version of the Heartline for consistency/parity with existing scenarios. That's what I'd do.

I'd just be happy with additional track pieces tbh.

"Only truely linear" Reverse freefall coaster: Am I nothing to you?!

@@TS_Mind_Swept Apparently nothing, seeing as I conveniently forgot about it...

It would become hilarious if it LOWERED the stats of the lopping coaster.

@@cubicinfinity2 Sounds like a new stat requirement. All rides built within 16 tiles of a Heartline get their excitement ratings divided by 2. Now imagine a scenario involving a smallish park that has a couple big pre-built Heartlines. One of the stipulations is that they are historic and can not be modified.

@@cubicinfinity2 "You're bringing down the property for all use of the whole neighborhood!"

I've got an invisible dress on sale that you may be interested in...

@@BigDBrianand I've got some invisible shoes that will go with it really well!

This and perhaps some more unique track elements such as vertical lift and others.

That's a really good idea! It makes it a good idea to actually build one!

build one above your torture maze to display dominance over the guests

@@cleanerben9636 "One" ... *evil laugh*

I was coming to the comments to ask this very question, "How does it stack up against real world examples?" I only have second hand knowledge from the internet. I've heard of caged type coasters that allow train cars to spin having a finicky reputation, like they're great if they're maintained by skilled operaters and your train car has well balanced rider weights, but if it goes improperly maintained and the weight of riders is off it can easily create a more nauseous and intense experience. The one thing that I could see being very logical is the scenery bonus, as when you're in this ride you're in a cage most of the time, scenery is not that visible and would not add that much real world excitement to a ride. This seems to be the logic with giving the inverted coaster more of a scenery boost, as the coaster is literally placing guests facing the ground where most of the scenery will logically be.

The rule of thumb for Togo coasters is that in Japan they're pretty great but overseas they're miserable.

Ive only been on the one in Japan, Rusutsu Resort. Given its pretty old but it was a really painful experience, rough and it hurt my head. Comparable to the worst Vekoma SLCs

@@keiyakinsEven in Japan, they are all of you can remember that arguably being good Other than that, either will kill your head, groin, or literally kill you

I know what you mean but the idea that they "seem better than they seem" is a paradox and I thought that was funny

That could also explain the increased nausea from g-forces. They surely disorient you more if you are limited in how much of the track you see. But that still leaves the higher intensity modifier, and the high nausea and intensity bases unexplained. Also, I think you should still get decent bonuses from synchronization. The point of that is to have a car close to your side, and the pipes block that direction much less than any views close to the forwards and backwards direction.

Heart-twisting comment..

Even if it sucks I still like having one in my park. I like the little Bengal tiger cars for it that were included in the wacky worlds expansion

but isn't it just as bad in RCT1?

The what now?

@@scottthewaterwarrior There was a bug in RCT1 where you could build a heartline with 255.0 excitement (I believe due to the entire heartline roll being considered "air time") in certain configurations. This was later fixed in RCT Classic and RCT2 as far as I know.

@@mattiatorX But did it still have equally awful stats if that exploit isn't used?

@@MrCheeze yep.

The Inverted Impulse is also a single tile wide, but doesn't have the same hopeless stats.

@@Codraroll The Inverted Impulse Coaster has one downside over the Heartline, but it rarely matters: its drop height requirement. The Impulse needs to be much taller, which can be a problem in custom parks with height restrictions.

Wooden coaster without wood.

I think it is in order for the heartline coaster. It's stats are just so bad in general, compared to any other coaster type.

@@Krasbin IMO the best way to fix some of the "bad" coaster types would be to bring in track elements the rides had in real life. Like the mini suspended pretty commonly had a vertical lift system, as did the heartline. Helix drops for the mini suspended, like the regular suspended, would also make it a lot more versatile.

The numbers for inverted coaster and the observation tower make the rounded fraction hypothesis seem likely imo

I feel like this was probably the most likely reason that it has such nerfed stats, for sure.

That does make sense, but the countermeasures taken to avoid this are clearly overkill.

I came to the same conclusion, even commented something similar, just laid the blame at Sawyer though lol. I bet that's what it is.

Nah, the Inverted Impulse coaster has the same property of taking up no space at all, but it also has decent stats. Same with the Reverse Freefall.

@@Codraroll now I want to try to fill a park with rows and rows of Reverse Freefalls

Plus the fact they added new special elements like photo shoots on roller coasters that didn't have them. And you can argue the ''refurbish'' option shouldn't be in the game since the idea is the demolish old rides and replace them with new ones, constantly evolving your park. Personally I'd say make 2 versions. One with ''enhanced balance'' one with ''vanilla balance''. Just add a checkbox (or maybe a few checkboxes for thing like refurbishment) in the options menu. If they can add both RCT1 and 2's menu's, it shouldn't be to difficult to make a A and B file for different rides.

Couldn't agree more. "The spirit of the game" is to build cool parks and to have fun. The way heartline is right now makes it appear less in parks and is not as fun as it could be, with better stats but also new tracks etc.

Maybe if you've ridden a heartline coaster in real life you wouldn't think its stats are underrated. Chris Sawyer didn't create ride stats based on popular online opinion, maybe it just sucks that bad if you've ever ridden one.

Agreed, the stats on the Heartline completely discourage ever building them in your park, at any stage of the game. RCT is about creativity and building interesting/unique rides, but the built in stats make it pretty much impossible to build a good HTC in game

@@D3cepti0ns in that case, include a different ride. We don't see plenty of IRL common flat rides because they're rubbish, after all.

The number of settings in OpenTTD has grown quite a fair amount over time. OpenRCT2 already has more settings and options than RCT2 ever had, and it is likely to continue to grow.

Chri Sawyer is a themepark enthusiast he probably rode every coastertype in the game, this type got his stomach rolling and headache bursting I guess.

The shoulder restraints on the real thing ARE terrible.

Good question, now I wanna know too! :)

I want to say Marcel addressed this in a past video but I'm not entirely sure. I do know there was some expose on how the bonus is a bit ridiculous in light of the tower rides, given that the scenery nearest the ride gives the most impact - despite the real life bonus being the fact that you could see the scenery much farther away.

My guess it's similar to if not the same as the length of the perimeter of surrounding scenery available when saving a ride with nearby scenery included. I don't know exactly how many tiles but iirc it's consistently the same for all rides

@@sabretooth1997 he did make a video And I know that it had a cap of 24? Or 48? Anyway The scenery does not matter Any scenery is good. Also note that scebery is nust one variable. Rides close, under or over and paths also boost excitement so just use them too with a reasonable degree

I feel a good way to do it would be to create a seperate ride with a similar name thus preserving the origonal for memes and folks who want the authentic RCT experience.

@@scottthewaterwarrior Would be useful for scenario compatibility, too.

That's because their transfer sections present additional opportunities for crashes to happen. You need to set the coaster to only dispatch cars with full loads and, ideally, ensure that cars enter the transfer sections at speeds lower than 30 MPH (48 km/h).

I had the idea for years, though. The video inspired me to get off my arse and finally do it.

That and John Wardley's dislike of Arrow's pipeline coaster prototype probably informed Chris Sawyer's decision. The only TOGO Ultra Twisters that have been well-liked are those still operating in Japan.

RTC Roller Toaster Cytoon.

I’d argue the Heartline is better in RCT3 than RCT2. The stars are slightly better and the throughput is higher too.

@@Samuel_Hearfield Maybe, but stat-wise it still feels like you got penalty for failed requirement

It was kind of like being in a washing machine that was being shoved back and forth by a playful giant.

Define "rough". It was nowhere near as rough as any Arrow looper, which meant that for its era, it was pretty smooth. It wasn't as smooth as any post-Batman B&M, but those weren't common in Ultra Twister's heyday.

I cheated a dive loop into one in OpenRCT2 and it became invisible.

It existed in very few parks too in rct2 Did you check scenario editor?

The Mini Golf should get its operating costs lowered. That'd make it more realistic and a much better "ride" to use.

They've since buffed it but I had to disagree with this idea, OpenRCT2 is very much it's own thing, it has: 1. SIGNIFICANTLY higher caps on stuff than vanilla RCT2 as well as uses a different save format 2. Other caster types got buffed with new elements, hell the Lopping, Flying and LIM Launch coaster types got buffed recently with new elements for them 3. Two brand new coaster types (soon to be 3) that aren't in Vanilla RCT2/C As you can see OpenRCT2 has already made pretty significant changes to RCT2/C, so altering the Heartline Twister Coaster is within what they've already done.

@@AceAviations2 Yeah, I suppose that's true. And each update since I made that comment will only make yours more true. I still wouldn't mind if the project were more strongly built around good mod integration with some of the new features being like default included mods, for those that might want to pick and choose with an otherwise mostly vanilla baseline. OpenTTD is a bit more like that.