Why The Suicide Squad shouldn't be canon to Arkham Knight! 

Documentary style 2, Reasons Why SSKTJ can't connect to Arkham Knight and should've been an Elseworlds Story. Do you agree with this take or disagree? Have a Merry Christmas and thanks for watching!

The problem I'm seeing is, this should be an alternate universe but Rocksteady isn't gonna do that. I really don't like the idea of the first time you see the Arkham Justice League involving all of them supposedly getting killed off.

Its strange after so long the game they want to make canon to the Arkhamverse is this, a game that is riddled with holes and probably leaking something that should be kept out.

Rocksteady believes completely changing key plot points of the arkham universe doesn't change a thing. Some would say the reverse.

Another point to Ivy being resurrected is that there’s a riddle that can be unlocked after beating the cloudburst portion of the main story, the riddle says ‘Your savior is gone but still in bloom’ and there’s a piece of Ivy’s jacket with a small growing plant where Ivy died.

The dead shot thing is so dumb, but if they had to do it at least they could have said that this new dead shot has taken over the mantle, maybe he is the partner of the real dead shot and proved himself, So the old deadshot retired or something.

exactly....it just doesn't make sense.

I definitely agree that SSKTJL should not be canon to the Arkhamverse. It should’ve been an elseworld story just like the Assault on Arkham movie.

People might argue that Superman and Lex are mentioned in Arkham Knight and say that Kill the Justice League is Cannon then, but like three years ago, we heard they were gonna make a Superman and denied a green light. Plus, scrapped models are out there sadly. We should have got Superman, but with how this game now is mean-spirited, it would probably have been a win loose for fans... - Luke from Brother's Web

Yah harley was jokers girlfriend and Ivy's friend but now they changed that randomly. Also they changed deadshot and harleys appearance. Plus batmans backstory for suicide squad doesnt make sense since he'd be runnimg from the police exposed as a vigilante to the world in Arkham Knight . All great points Kwing! Keep up the excellent work!🦇😎

Well it's a complete dumpster fire the consistency the Arkham game had is dead nothing makes sense anymore 🤦🤦🤦

I couldn’t believe the leaks were legit real. If this is canon and it’s as bad as it sounds I’ll just pretend like it doesn’t exist

They do connect it, but it’s very lazily done. Basically Superman and the justice league are apparently a new thing after knight and we’re like hey dude join our club. Weird how quickly he joins them But yeah this really should’ve been it’s own thing

It isn't canon to me. We absolutely can choose to disregard trash.

The change of Deadshot will be the main thing that will keep me from buying this game. Deadshot was always my favorite character in the games. Struggling on his boss fight in Arkham Origins is one of my fondest memories I have as a kid and I loved his character and design. Not to mention badass characterization in assault on Arkham. To see him replaced haphazardly with little to no explanation really rubs me the wrong way.

I heard someone say they explained why Bat's is still active because Superman stood up for Batman publicly/offered him protection in the League so no one's came after him.

There’s too many holes and inconsistent that day one when I saw the trailer and I though this has to be elseworld story

To be fair in arkham asylum if go to harley's old office in the medical building in the basement there's a magazine that mentions the injustice gang so a form of the justice league existed in the arkham verse.

Deadshot is literally a different man with a different appearance, abilities and fighting style, just for the sake of example. I have no clue why they tried to loop it into the Arkhamverse when they didn’t legitimately try at all.

the massive Deadshot plot hole is the biggest reason in ny opinion

Its definitely possible its a alternate Arkham Earth.

Now I agree with some BUT the Jl were mentioned across almost every Arkham game especially Knight. We were teased about Superman, Flash, Black Canary, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, the Question, Lex Luthor and more. And shown during the closed Alpha he was found by Superman.

This is not a rumor I heard the audio and saw part of the cutscene. I'm just going to pretend this isn't Canon and appreciate Arkham Knight more.

Love this Chanel ❤

In the very same trailer that first shown Batman in Suicid Squad kills the Justice League you can hear Harley call Batman Bruce without a single one of the other villains questioning her for the name

Although I don't want it to be connected and you've made good points about the continuity, I highly doubt it's in a separate universe as Rocksteady isn't the same company it was back when Arkham Knight released, I think there's barely anyone from the days of the Arkham Trilogy still at Rocksteady and is probably only people who don't really care about the Arkham-verse's continuity.

A small part of me holds out hope that, rocksteady knows what they are doing, but the fact this game is going to have a battle pass is the thing that tells me they dont, and it will be as bad as we expect.

King Shark should also be dead from Suicide Squad: Assault on Arkham, not sure if that's considered canon anymore but yeah

The justice league was formed during the time period that Batman was full time fear gas Batman, not before. The problem with suicide squad killed Justice league, is that they just jump us into killing them instead developing the league characters or Batman becoming a member

I grew up on the Arkham games and it's a shame to see Rock Steady this new team of Rocksteady completely contradict and mess up the franchise

If we make our disdain clear and elear enough, they might walk things back and say it's no longer canon. If they're not as pig headed as I fear.

I hardy doubt it’s the same universe with Arkham

so happy to see uploads back on this channel! you were my childhood and I can't wait to see more content :)

Amazing channel 👏

The reason why Batman is apart of the Justice League is because the Justice League was created after Arkham Knight. At the time, Batman was believed to be dead until he heard of the Justice League and decided to come back and join. This is confirmed from the Museum mission in the Suicide Squad alpha. I’m sure there’s more to it but that’s the gist of it. As for Deadshot, the official canon reasoning as to why he’s black is because the white guy was apparently an imposter and stole the real Deadshot’s identity until he killed him and took it back. Kind of a shitty reason but alas that’s the reason. As for Ivy and Harley. They are not in a relationship and never have been in the Arkham universe. In Suicide Squad their interaction was more of a “best friends” relationship and this is backed up by the Arkham City tie-in comics where Ivy, Harley, and Catwoman formed the Gotham City Sirens. However, Harley and Ivy were sent to Arkham City while Catwoman wasn’t. Catwoman promised to water Ivy’s plants which she didn’t and it’s why Ivy is pissed at Catwoman in Arkham City (This confirms that particular comic is canon and makes the friend connection between Harley and Ivy). When I saw the insider, I never even seen Kid Ivy and Harley’s interaction as like a “old lovers” kind of thing but more of an old friends thing which is backed up by the lore of the Arkham games and tie-in comics.

well when you think about it Kwing, Kill the Justice League might as well be the same universe timeline, however within an *Alternate Earth* as Owlman once said: "Every decision we make is meaningless because somewhere, on a parallel Earth, we have already made the opposite choice. We're nothing. Less than nothing." so yeah this may be just an alternate earth

Thank you for the video Luke you make lots of sense in this video and you always make lots of sense I agree with you because I wish that they would stick with the Arkham Canon with kill of Justice League because it's weird and dumb that they didn't and they should have because it's Kevin Conroy's last role as Batman in a game so I feel like that's dishonorable of the new rocksteady to do

I suggest we treat it like the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.

That New York accent right at the beginning with the word “Argument.” 😂😂

The whole Deadshot issue alone is enough to separate it from the whole franchise!

I see we are in the denial stage. Me too man.

Love this keep it up Luke and I hope u and amber have a wonderful Christmas

Really love how thoroughly you've researched your theory, Luke, just like you always do. Keep up the great work!

Some of this simply could have just taken place in between games. It’s been 8 years since Arkham Knight was released. It’s not hard to believe that Batman has been pardoned and/or the public is understanding and accepting of him now. Harley and Penguin, as disgusting as that is, could have hooked up at some point over that course of time. It sucks, but it’s not rocket science to figure out. The Ivy stuff and other things, however, are a mess.

Tbh it's how i felt about suicide squad's implementation in the DCEU before XD For some reason they didn't think of the idea of establishing which movies go where in each timeline. Suicide Squad works better as an AU or temporary team up tbh

Luke I completely agree with you. If this was elseworlds and they could change things up I wouldn’t be nearly as disappointed. I still wouldn’t like what they are doing to Batman but since it wouldn’t be connected to the Arkham games I would be a lot more accepting to it. Loved the recent videos!! Merry Christmas!

I mean the simple fact that deadshot is black is enough to write it off as it’s own world. I know they claim the Arkham ones an imposter, but that literally makes no sense.

I think it is connected, just that it will have plot holes

they can easly save this game by removing deadshot and king shark and adding deathstroke because in the post credits of arkham origins we can see deathstroke getting drafted into taskforce x and for king shark they can easly add bloodsport. I hope this game is good so kevin conroys last performance won't be wasted.

Also do we know how Joker returns in this game??

WB and Rocksteady failed to realize players would much rather play as the Justice League rather than kill them

This entire game just feels like a sick joke honestly

I really hate the trend of using a popular franchise just for the name. What's even the point? Just for advertising? Trying to make this game canon to the Arkham games is doing nothing but adding frustration to what would've just been a cool Suicide Squad game. Or if they really want to use the Arkhamverse, use it.

I rather have that that the crime syndicate were the villains so you can technically kill the justice league but you can still make a proper justice league game later.

I disagree with “Batman being public” based on the fact that Harley was surprised to see Batman talking to him in a nostalgic tone. Yes the public knows Batman exist but this doesn’t mean he is being public.

Did you play the Closed Beta? It answers some of these questions

Great video, but I think the relationship between Ivy and Harley in ssktjl reflects the bromance aspect they’ve had in the comics prior to 2015. Just my impression tho.

Thank you for making this I needed this after I saw those depressing leaks

i really think people are mad at the simple request to expand the arkhamverse. you introduce all the other heroes just to be killed so that cuts them making games based off them to expand the world. Then you kill off batman the game series that put rocksteady on the map going against the story telling in Arkham Knight. This can all be fixed if they rewrite the script or say its not canon

Kwings new york accent has been coming out a lot more recently

I think the right thing to do is have this be like a separate story timeline kind of how the Halloween franchise does

It wasn’t supposed to be an Arkham game originally they swapped developers midway through. Gotham knights was originally a Damian Wayne Arkham game

the problem is that in the leaks they made sure to drill it in our heads that suicide squad is cannon when they were in the museum and a voice over that mentions all the arkham game events from asylum to city and knight

Can we also address how the ending of Arkham Knight was a great way to cap off Arkham Bat's adventures? If SSKTJL was canon, Rocksteady would be undoing all of that by having Harley, of all people, kill him. You send him out on a high in Arkham Knight, then drag him back down at a low and kill him there? SSKTJL needs to be elseworlds so that Arkham Bats can still go out out on a bang instead of a whimper.

I always thought this is a different universe from the beginning and the points you make are sound and valid. So Rock Steady just needs to confirm that to make everybody feel better.

The original leaker of the game has said that the ending of the game recontexualizes the whole plot. So maybe we kill clones? Or we bring them back somehow. I honestly don’t think they’re that dumb by killing Arkham Batman and the whole justice league.

Hey awesome video. Don't know if there's another comment that mentions it, but I believe there is a riddler riddle after Ivy dies of a plant left over hinting at her return later on.

I believe they will reboot the arkhamverse so it's in sync with the movie universe that gunn is working on

This literally like the Star Wars sequels .. I aint canon to us!

I agree with your points but I am interested to see where they go with trying to connect because like you said, the sprout thing makes sense you can even go back and play Arkham knight to see that, it’s just the Harlivy thing that makes it messy and you can chalk up Deadshot to just being a silly little retcon like Iron Man 2 when Don cheadle was recast as Rhodey. Fury was black in the ultimate comics

can't say it's a part of the Arkham universe if I choose to not acknowledge its existence

Assault on Arkham is TRUE Canon.

I agree with you very much about this great episode thank you 👍☕😎

I feel like Gotham knights fit better than this

10:17 paul dini has always said he wanted to make ivy and Harley a canon relationship since he first paired them together in BTAS, WB just wouldn’t let him, but there was alway flirtatious subtext in their interactions pre-2015

I hear everything you're saying, but I assume you acknowledge that, as far as Rocksteady is concerned, the game is canon? Also, how many years after Arkham Knight does SSKTJ take place? Perhaps the JL was only formed in the Arkhamverse after Arkham Knight?

While I feel like they always hinted at the league existing, especially in Asylum where there was that news article that confirmed the legion of doom, I agree that the way they handled the league was stupid. Also Batman abandoning the knightfall protocol after all that talk about needing to create a new myth is stupid, because it goes against everything Bruce was trying to accomplish at the end of the Arkham games. How did he go from thinking that the Batman he was wasn’t enough, to then back peddling and becoming an even less scary version that has a public identity and stands in the limelight? He literally struck gold with Knightfall and then abandoned it because Superman said the light side had cookies.

Well this makes me fell a little better considering “the scene” that happened or will happen in SSKTJ

plus the SSKTJL writers are different from the one who wrote arkham knight, Martin lancaster is his name

I've already known that once the leaks came out...

If this game wasn’t connected to Arkham I can guarantee the response wouldn’t be so negative, they’re stretching a perfect universe to fit something severely below the standard.

Is there any mention of what happens to Scarecrow in this universe? Of course after Knight

I guess he doesn’t get charged with crimes because he’s Batman or because he saved Gotham countless times and the most recent time being an invasion by scarecrow so Gotham forgives him I guess idk lol.

I’d also like to point out that King Shark in the Arkhamverse, not only doesn’t actually look like a shark, but is already long dead by the time most of the games take place

This SS Deadshot could easily just be made a guy who took up the mantle after maybe killing the first or because Waller blew his bomb and replaced him.

Wait, does this mean the Arkham comic book tie-ins of Asylum and City are not canon either? I'm a little confused on that part.

Can I make this my head canon? I'm gonna make this my head canon. Thanks for giving me a way to relieve my headache and grief.

Be careful man, some creators are getting strikes for anything negative towards the game.

I know I said this in the last video, but this could have been an Earth 3 story with the joke being the "Suicide Squad" is suicidal for being willing to face the Crime Syndicate.

Sad to say its not an elseworlds story. Played the beta and there's an explanation for all these given, kinda. The league is formed after the events of the Arkham games, og deadshot was a fake somehow, Harley just gets over the joker and her resentment towards batman, Ivy leaves behind a plant in knight, and Harley could just be eluding to a friendship with ivy sort of like catwoman and ivy in city. I think elseworlds are probably showing up considering the newest leaks. Another sad reality about this series is the numerous continuity issues throughout the games so SSKTJL having alot of them isn't a surprise to say the least. As always though I loved the video, merry Christmas kwing.

the Deadshot thing immediately killed my interest in the game and that’s only been compounded whenever they released more info or trailers

I sure hope rocksteady returns to the arkem style gameplay eventually

I understand a lot of the decisions were made from corporate wanting its cake and to eat too. But I really wish we got a version of the game we’re rocksteady double down on its roots. There would still be puzzles and predator sections but it’s focus would be on using teamwork to take out an overwhelming force giving the characters a reason to work together outside of a bomb in there head because working alone would leave them severely vulnerable in an apocalyptic metropolis . Each character would use their version of a bat gadget + their own gimmick gadget. King shark can destroy destructible walls and is a brawler with lots of health who can bring attention away from other characters as he would be perceived as more immediate threat. Dead-shot is a support class he gets a sniper rifle and disturber that’s a bit more versatile; his wrist guns can burst fire but he’s ability to fight in close combat is severely limited. Harley would work a lot like she already did in the Arkham games with the added bat claw, remote grapple, and a revolver that can instant kill but has limited ammo, is loud, and is only useful at mid to close range encouraging players to use her agility to rush high priority opponents that are tucked away where king shark and dead-shot can’t reach. Captain boomerang would get regular, remote, freeze, and electrical boomerangs he’d be decent at fighting in close encounters but it would be significantly harder then Harley or shark to get takedowns/kills alone but not as hard as dead-shot making him great for mid range and covers most of the gadgets missing from the Arkham games while keeping with his theme. And the fun factor would come from making arenas where players can intuitively see how each character needs to help the others to achieve the objective and the growing camaraderie between the characters would manifest in gameplay as you become more and more dependent on your teams cohesion to complete harder and harder task’s throughout the main story.

I mean the Deadshot in Arkham "wasn't the real Deadshot and was an imposter" which is stupid with Rocksteady tried with this excuse I don't care new Deadshot is the imposter toe

I agree with you

I believe it isn't however there is a four year gap between A:O and A:A so maybe but still like loved the knight fall ending, marry Christmas Luke

3:23 - But thugs mention Superman several times.

I think the only canon Arkham spin-off games are Origins: Blackgate and that VR game.!

So excited for the game just preordered the ultimate edition!

I do think it is cannon and i wouldn't say it isn't all because the characters are different their still the same characters and i think they also mention some events in arkham knight it isn't a spoiler just a speculation because i could be wrong