Why the VW XL1 was a 300mpg Bugatti Veyron UFO 

Tell us about it. The XL1 is extreme, but the DNA of Insight and XL1 should have been adopted into family cars. BMW i3 came the closest (now off sale and instantly a classic in my eyes).

It's a fantastic vehicle and Ferdinand Piëch was so gifted. The motor manufacturers have become too lazy and are maximum profit driven for little intellectual effort. They have constrained the market to supply vehicles that are easy to build, too complicated with rapid obsolescence to satisfy an unintelligent demographic. It's only going to get worse.

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So they created a hypermile car and than decided to make big energy consuming cars because that's the thing to do when you want to go inveremently friendly

Aptera!

It’s because nobody wanted them. Simples. Be honest and it’s ugly and coarse and lacks the toys we want nowadays.

Over 50% of European car sales are now SUVs. I don't see this pattern changing as I understand the motivation of why other people buy them. Johnny and many others are mystified even repulsed by owners of them, is it a class thing? Is it cultural?

@@fraserwright9482 If someone chooses to buy an SUV it doesn't bother me, it's a free country, and it's their choice. I'm not repulsed by the owners, but I think they must either not be into cars, or they are gullible people that are easily led by marketing. I've driven several SUV's. Proper off road capable SUV's are great, and by off road capable I mean high ground clearance, four wheel drive, low range gearbox, diff locks, snorkel, rock-sliders, and a winch. What I don't understand is why people want to take a regular 2 wheel drive hatchback, but they want it to be made bigger and harder to park, smaller and less practical inside, higher up so more difficult to load, heavier and bigger frontal area so less fuel efficient, raised suspension so worse handling, harder suspension to counter the extra body-roll so much less comfortable, and they want to pay more for the car. I can see why manufacturers want to sell them, they are a higher price, so a bigger profit margin. Maybe it's a class thing for the purchasers? "I bought the SUV which costs more than the hatchback, so I'm better than you" that kind of thinking. In pretty much every case, if you buy the hatchback that the SUV is based on, rather than the SUV, you'll save money and you'll get a better car.

​@@fraserwright9482I think they just work better. For the width and length of the vehicle they do have more room. I have an enyaq and the height for just getting in and out is perfect. And the boot is massive.

Because for some reason people like to drive all high up in their suvs, while i hate it, feels like being a truck driver but apparently many feel safer in a higher position even tho in reality it has no direct correlation with crash safety.

They produce what people buy

That’s true to a certain extent. A lot of people also want simple, small, light and reasonably-priced. Dacia can’t shift enough vehicles. There are lengthy waiting lists for Dacias where I live in France. If there were more vehicles like that people would buy them.

My A200 comes with 160bph but when I'm on the motorway doing 60mph the computer says the engine is only using 8-10hp.

​@joey_f4ke238 ground high and 4 wheels does help in Canada outside the GTA.

Yes, ditch the diesel hybrid gubbins, replace with a battery pack and you have a very efficient EV that still looks great.

⁠​​⁠Personally I find it quite cool looking, but the drawback to cars like this has always been that they’re expensive to buy, and they only seat 2 people. There is absolutely no flexibility with them for transporting more than 2 people or some cargo. If a carmaker could produce this for under €10k or say 17k CDN they might be able to sell some as a primary gas-saving vehicle for some reasonable portion of drivers, with a larger capacity car used only occasionally. However, all of the bespoke manufacturing involved ensures that it’s going to be immensely expensive. Instead they produce what are effectively technology demonstrators that aren’t practical for the majority of people. I’d love to see some of the concepts in this put into a mass market vehicle.

Mercedes is doing something similar with their EQXX concept. Over 1000KM are possible electrically.

@@sjsomething4936 If you can make a 2 seater that gets 300mpg I'm sure it's possible to make a 4 seater that gets at least 100mpg, which would be a huge improvement over the average car

@@BlackElf94it is and was possible. audi a2 and lupo had 1.2 tdi variants that could achieve 3 litres / 100 km over 20 years ago…

I read in a period magazine that Volkswagen planned a sporty version of this named XL1-Sport that had a bit longer tail in the back and should work with petrol it should have few motorcycle parts like 2 options for engine for most powerful and lighter version it had Ducati Superleggera V4 sport bike motor or the other version Yamaha V2 both should have sport brakes on all 4 wheels and full titanium exhaust to get a max speed 275 km/h for the faster version with Ducati motor with DSG gearbox and 250 km/h for the version with Yamaha motor and 6 speed manual gearbox. Unfortunately after unveil in Paris Motor-show was ditched even though it got plenty people interested, it remained a one off prototype sadly..

time to make anew version full electric to an affordable price

@@fetB Yamaha also did in 2015 a light fun prototype vehicle with motorcycle parts that again sadly was ditched it was called : Yamaha Sports Ride and it was developed with help of Gordon Murray. Very sad that it did not reach at least a limited production it was very light like Elise and with powerful Yamaha motor & other parts it would give the Ariel a run for it's money..

Back in the 1970's a guy built a diesel electric Nova kit car.

​@@fetB or even better just leave the diesel in it. The extra weight for a full electric will kill the efficiency.

Do you own one ?

​@@zzhughesdUnfortunately not - we had one at work which was auctioned last year. I drove it to help film a promotional video.

and it's not the Nissan sera, but a Toyota Sera ;)

Thank you. Really chuffed you enjoyed the detail of these quirky engineering masterpieces.

An EV XL1 would-be a tire-shredding rocket ship. Would be so fun to drive...

Who requires you to sign that GDPR? You'd need to accept one buying anything from any company anyway. If you sell it 2nd hand you could take the router out anyway.

Too bad GM destroyed all the EV1s.

You can buy how a Tesla model 3 or Hyundai ioniq 6 good aerodynamics electric Cars.consumotion 15kwh/100km around 1,5litres gasoline

The Aptera is for sale. 337 MPG. 40 miles of which can come from it's solar panels.... If people will buy them, they'll make them....

I am still waiting for Audi to iterate on the og A2

@@mrhaftbar yeah that would be nice………… I have one 👍🏻🚙

I've got a VW amarok non dieselgate but Ive tricked the computer ( making it think its 46 deg outside) to turn it into a dieselgate VW. it keeps the EGR closed 95% of the time and has cut fuel consumption and Co2 by 10% the oil stays cleaner for longer extending the servicing by 25% the distance between DPF regen has increased more than 300% so that's another win for the environment and extending the life of the vehicle. I often get 1000km per tank at 100km/h on 25 deg days (80L diesel tank) not bad for a 2100kg full time 4x4 pick up truck thats 2m wide

I've heard it was the inspiration for the F1's doors. It certainly would have been on Gordon's radar with it being a little lightweight sportsish car.

YAASSS, I hope so too! Was hoping I wouldn't be the only one mentioning Aptera!

The drawback to cars like this has always been that they’re expensive to buy, and they only seat 2 people. There is absolutely no flexibility with them for transporting more than 2 people or some cargo. I’ve long thought that a car (as in a fairly low profile roofline station wagon not a bloody silly SUV) with some kind of extendable cargo bed and a removable cap for that area could achieve very good mileage results and provide the flexibility of both high fuel efficiency and the ability to carry a reasonable amount of cargo when necessary.

Giving it 100km of extra EV only range. I would also like to add a 10l biodiesel flex fuel tank as well.

With less than 1L/100km just give it a 40L fuel tank and you'd only have to fill it up twice per year

10 litres of diesel weighs 8.53kg and even if you did make it EV you miss the point of why they made it a hybrid and not just EV.

@fraserwright9482 no, I didn't miss the point at all. Batteries and motors have improved substantially over the years, and an EV version of this could be very compelling and much more efficient than most of the EVs available. No hybrid or gas/diesel engine can come close to the efficiency of an EV currently.

Is called the Aptera, and hopefully will be on the market soon!

@@jamesengland7461 the Aptera will be efficient, but the design is nothing like this vehicle. A modern interpretation of the VW with a full EV powetrain would be a much better option for many people.

​@fraserwright9482 If it can go 30 miles on 5.5kwh battery, that would be another 2kwh for the weight of the fuel almost 50miles. Then there is the weight of the engine, starter motor , fluids etc combined with latest battery tech should be able to get well over 100miles with the same weight.

Partially I suspect that's because VW built it to be the long term poster boy of their diesel range, to show everyone just how impressive their diesels were. Shortly afterwards of course came the emissions scandal and even uttering the word diesel in the factory would have gotten you sacked. The XL1 just never got the press and fanfare it was destined for at the time and as a result, it's far more obscure now than it should be.

If anything about this or any other vehicles ,over the past 3 decades is elegant, stop the planet for a second, I want to jump off. This, like all the rest, is BUTT UGLY !!!

My main complaint about the Aptera is that it is a two-seater. I use public transport when travelling solo or with my GF. This first model of Aptera is not going to be a solution when we start a family.

Aptera has a big trunk you can lie down in, and plenty of suitcase room.

It's still under development but check out the Aptera

Love the Ampera, which is why I sold my Insight the first time to get a Volt.

I thought it was Stamford, I used to deliver to Bakehouse Kitchens. To the shop, and to their workshop.

Aptera is the next step forward

i walk past an ampera every day taking my son to school. such a shame you dont see many of them its a handsome car and aged really well.

Really shows the law of diminishing returns, and just how far engineers can go when they're given a blank canvas!

Insights are certainly cheaper to buy and live with.

I can't wait!

Aptera is not in production yet. Maybe John avoid prototypes?

Even though it's pre-production, I'd like to see your take on the Aptera in Carlsbad California.

He said its a lithium pack

The Subaru is called the SVX.

Aptera!

Exactly, it's all BS and virtue signalling. No way it returned 300mpg either. No way on earth.

I remember that too. There was a discussion of putting the 1299 engine to this thing. That would have been mega.

I startet to read your comment and imideately thought of Aptera. Not a second later I was very happy to read you know of them too. On the topic of fenders I dont agree with you though, because that is a major aero improvement compared to something like the xl1. But 4 wheels might be quite good, although right now with only two seats and a low center of mass (due to the battery) it does not fall over in corners as many people expect. I think if Aptera builds a 4 or 5 seater in the futere they will go for four wheels, becaus then the center of mass will sit more towards the back.

@@Optimus_SapiensMaybe you should teach yourself about aerodynamics before you state such a mindless opinion, or at least do your due diligence and search for actual fact that's easy to source, even relevant knowledge would help your case. Land speed records, closed wheel. Endurance vehicles that rely on aero efficiency, closed wheel. Supercars, hypercars, etc., closed wheel. F1's regulatory limitation of being open wheel utilizes the massive front wings to push air around the wheel, and they further this by having the inside of the wheel have aero-optimized wishbones. In fact, open wheel is bad for aero, even with a fender-like cap over the open wheel, they're still not great for overall aero performance. Aptera's design isn't as optimized as it could be. Oh, and one of the oldest tricks for boosting aero is to cover the wheel, huh I wonder why VW decided to do that on the XL1's rears, I wonder why numerous other manufacturers have decided to do that on their efficiency-focused vehicles. Speaking of old tricks, why do you think fenders and skirts evolved to become the norm? In a relevant sense, why do you think some older vehicles, from the '50s era I believe, were more aero-efficient in reverse; in fact, SuperfastMatt has a video on this, you should check it out. Sure, driving a brick isn't going to have good aero efficiency, yet look at the drag coefficients EVs are pushing; you can't even take a moment to fact check your opinion with easy to access relevant information that you can get off a Wiki page at a glance. Wanna know why so many manufacturers choose open wheel for their sub-car vehicles? Cost. Speaking of sub-car, do you wanna know why I used that term? Look at anything modern produced at any decent scale that's open wheel, Caterham, the various trikes of both seated and straddle variants, including Aptera, etc. What do they all have in common? Regulatory grey areas, they're not quite a car, they're not quite not a car, and this is how they get away with stuff; and the ones that are regulated in any way also aren't quite road-approved, even if there's some technical or licensed legality, nobody wants a track vehicle on the road. Regulations also have an aspect of safety, say something falls into your open wheel suspension, what happens then, what about pedestrians or animals, etc., that's why there's regulations in the first place; and that's probably why the last open wheel car that your average person could purchase and openly drive was the Plymouth/Chrysler Prowler. Where Aptera actually sees massive aero improvement is in the body design. They have literally disclosed this factoid in interviews. A direct quote of theirs is of them talking about how they modeled the belly of the vehicle after fish that swim on the sea floor, where they have a hump from belly to tail because they're more hydrodynamic that way. Open wheel has nothing to do with it, in fact it impacts aero efficiency negatively. Again, the design of open wheel is cost cutting, and with Aptera's engineering design this corner cutting save quite a lot. Aptera may see some benefit over a fully open wheel with their massive wheel covers, but at the same time these things aren't exactly streamlined that well; in fact it's probably still a negative compared to going fully closed wheel with a tire that occasionally peeks out from the fender during turns, also this method would allow for turbofans, which you'll not only find aero benefits with but also motor cooling benefits considering Aptera is using in-wheel motors. But, again, costs, as widening the body to incorporate the wheels would cost a significant amount more compared to open wheels with massive covers. Aptera could also go to a four wheel design at any moment without any major efficiency loss, the decision of three wheels is again costs, the post-belly portion of the vehicle is essentially a giant diffuser anyways, and even if they did see some loss there are tricks to get around this; again, go watch that SuperfastMatt video, it's dumbed down enough to where you should understand it, Matt even provides examples of these aero tricks to improve efficiency where you might not expect them. The world has also come quite a long way from vehicles like the Reliant Robin. Good god that portion of your comment was so entirely irrelevant. Probably wanked over the idea that you're clever, didn't you? 'Most people' don't even think three-wheel vehicles tip over all that often, but oh wait the only trikes that have were put out of production long ago, and there's a commonality between them; they were all deltas (1f2r), rather than tadpoles (2f1r), with a bad center of mass, oh and another factoid is that forward-momentum cornering and major changes in terrain were their major downfalls. You're not clever. It's absolutely wild how some people will know nothing but believe they have the most educated opinion on a topic, yet won't do the slightest to back their opinion. You're worse than an armchair engineer, you can't even apply basic concepts to logical thought. Stay in school, you might learn something; else I'm sorry the education system failed you.

​@@jakesnyder2667 I wonder what drove you to write that enormously long comment. It sounds like you are defending yourself, as if I attacked you with what I said, even though I did not even adress it to you. Anyways, your last paragraph was a direct statement about my intellect, but how could you think you know all that about me from a comparitively short comment? Because: actually I am studdying engineering and I am going to join the aerodynamics departement of a formula student team from my university and I inform myself about many things in aerodynamics and engineering in general. Now about the wheels: On most of the aerodynamics-focused-cars, only the back wheels are covered, because the front wheels have to turn and then the car would either have to have a small turning radius (like a speed record car), or you would have to design the fenders in such a way, that the wheelcovers are a few centimeters away from the tire, so they don´t collide at maximum stering angle. Option one is good for aero but impractical in cities and option two increases the width of the body and thus the frontal aerea and the drag. So, Aptera made a very optimal shape around the occupants and then added the wheels (that are enclosed by what I would call "fairings" ) outside of the body, which compared to a conventional car or also the XL1, reduces the frontal aerea. Normaly the bumper has to cover everything from one wheel to the other, on the aptera the bumper is firstly shaped like the front of a wing and secondly much smaller than a conventional bumper - so less drag which compensates that the tires are not completely enclosed by the "fairings", because there are also vents for cooling the brakes. The biggest dirty-air parts on the Aptera I imagine are the struts to the front wheels, the mirrors, the gap for the windscreenwipers, the width of the tail and as I just mentioned the cooling vents. So yea, the struts to the wheels are one drawback, but imagine putting a bumper in front of them preventing the flow of air throgh them. Many high end cars even channel the air throgh that aerea with the struts of the front tires deliberately, like the Ford GT for example:(d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2017/06/01/Misc/Ford-GT-front-wheel-aero.jpg ). The cd value of the XL1 is 0,189 and the cd value of the Aptera is 0,13. About the frontal aerea (if I can trust the source) the XL1 is a bit smaller, so they both might have about the same drag force at the same speed. (I found the cd values on multiple websites so i hope they are correct, but it makes sense considering how aerodynamic they look) And on the topic of armchairs I haven´t seen much innovation so far, so I can see why you think of them as low engineers. One improvment for example could be to make them continously variable in hight, like a bike saddle instead of the steps, (on all the chairs I had it anoyed me I could not get the armchairs to the exact hight of my table) Now that you broght that old thought back into my mind, I want to 3d print myself a new armchair... I also just had the idea to build a small windtunnel and put 3d printed same-scale-models of different cars, including the Aptera Delta and the Volkswagen XL1, into it and test the drag force at the same Wind speed. And now I had the idea, to just strap some contaption on the hood of a car and drive at a speed, so that the windspeed is the same and then messure the force the model applyes onto the contraption. This way the effects of the walls on the model in a wind tunnel are eliminated. Have a good day (or night like in may case now)

It's actually more efficient

@@jamesengland7461 not quite finished and sold to customers.

this looks so much better then that aptera.... i also doubt aptera will ever build more then 100 of them but i hope im wrong

Did I say Nissan Sera? Whoops. Must have been thinking sisters/brothers of Pao, Figaro and Be:1

Exactly! The entire EV focus is a silly waving exercise where 0 to 60 is concerned but in reality it should be about how much range you can get. Most modern EVs are incredibly impressive in both arenas but if manufacturers made the vehicles intended for day to day commuting uses make the most of their power capacity just think of the truly astounding ranges which could become possible!

The worst EV crime is that BMW who made the 2013-2022 i3 has brought out a sort of 3-series with a battery and called it the i3, a nasty marketing ploy.

*Flair.

@@AtheistOrphan need some of that too…. Then would sell like hot cakes

Rich people are the only ones who buy them, and rich people need leather, reversing cameras, iPhone docks etc etc etc.

@@MattyEngland what’s that got to do with my comment about design?