Facts. Needing to have online presence in order to increase your chance of getting published sounds so intimidating, and the prospect of having to maintain that presence feels very overwhelming for an introvert.
Same as positions in academia. You really need to promote yourself. If the situation was like this back in the 19th, I suppose many great thinkers wouldn't be noticed.
they even expected the writer themselves to do the marketing at social media. what a nigthmare for introvert who suffers from panic and social anxiety attack 😭😭😭
A good writer can make even the most mundane human experience compelling to read. This is a feature of many great classics. Having a lot of cool experiences can be useful, but not by any means necessary.
boiled down to essentials i can not for the life of me reckon what kept me reading pride and prejudice, but i did, by gum, and i enjoyed it, both versions, with and without zombies
Many (or maybe even most) people consider canonically great writers such as Dickens uncompelling. People are dancing around the main issue because they don't want to confront it. Is greatness objective or subjective? If it's objective, what are the objective characteristics of great literature? If it's not something objective, a virtual conversation with the aim of illuminating the concept cannot be fruitful because we're doing nothing more than spewing out our brain chemistry onto a social media platform and revealing more about ourselves than the concept of greatness while doing so. If greatness is objective, people who feel differently are seriously in error. Many people on here might be closet elitists without even knowing it, and most of them probably know nothing about aesthetics or philosophy in general. Also, who defines greatness? Who writes that list of eternally true characteristics, since that's what objective means? I believe that greatness is subjective, varies by time and space and is defined by the individual. Powerful people obviously impose their definitions on others because they have the power to do so. Someone like Iceberg Slim cannot be great because he is and always will be an outsider to the people in power, even though his work checks many of the boxes of "literariness" (poetic language, large vocabulary, dealing with heavy issues of good and evil, character-driven stories, doing something that has never been done before, experimenting in general). He just doesn't fit the prim and proper world of Western intelligentsia, but many African Americans consider him great.
@@accordingtoalina This is why I study Ernest Hemingway, Kurt Vonnegut, John Steinbeck, Jack Kerouac, Franz Kafka, and David Lee Foster. I am a 6-year covered IV heroin/meth/cocaine/drug addict. I have lived in the ghetto, homeless in the streets, and I've lost over $100,000 in life insurance money. My dad died in front of me after having one last talk with me, a talk I will never forget. He poured his heart out to me that my addiction was killing him, and that he was worried that if I didn't change that I would become a victim of jail, institutions, and death. I headed in the opposite direction after our conversation, I turned around *skkkkrrr in a split second, my feeling of self-loathing and desperation, transformed into overbearing fear that my Dad had just been killed in the car accident I just witnessed and was immovable denial, I ran halfway up to his vehicle, only to avoid getting close enough to confirm what I already knew deep within my soul. I head home and open the door, my pastor wearing all black from head to toe, his brown hair and eyes never looked more sorry. Before he could utter a word, I knew what he was going to say, I melted into tears uncontrollably and hugged my Pastor as tight as if he were my dad. My mother unable to handle my addiction kicked me out into the cold winter streets, and I was now homeless. My best friend of 15 years took me in and showed me kindness no one else dared to at the time, for a moment I didn't feel unloved, unwanted, or alone. I felt as though I had a family, and friends again, a support system to help me get through this crisis, however, he only made the crisis even worse. He soon kicked me out, and after I saw the notary and made him the beneficiary of my will and life insurance things went downhill even worse. I was homeless again in the late winter, with nothing but a black garbage bag of my belongings and the clothes on my back. I was truly alone. I made my way to a neighboring town and planned to settle down there, I met a new "best friend" but I didn't know this "best friend" would work in tandem with my last one to kill me for my life insurance money. If I died within 1 year of my Dad's death whoever my beneficiary was would receive 1 million dollars, more money than any of us had ever seen at one time, my Dad believed in me but he also was a man who made contingency plans, knowing I was a savage heroin addict, he knew that I would either use the money and establish myself and succeed or use it as a loaded gun to shoot myself to death with, in which case my Mom would've gotten the million dollars. Even my dad couldn't predict my own mother would make me homeless and that my heart would hurt and feel betrayed enough to remove her as my beneficiary. I had people attempting to take my life, and the money I did have was stolen from me, the man who kicked me out had all my debit cards, checkbooks, social security, birth certificate, and any other information he needed to pilfer my inheritance, I never seen a dime of it. Later on I met a woman with two beautiful and amazing children, fell in love with her even though she was addicted to meth and struggling with her Aunt's death that she was so close to. She ended up abusing me mentally, financially, physically, in any way imaginable, and yet I still gave her everything and showed her love. I later received a final life insurance check for $50,000 and I used it to keep her out of jail so the kids didn't have two parents locked away from them, I wanted the kids to know their mother would be there for them when they needed it. She later broke up with me cause I refused to look at other women and call them hot and said I was a liar if I wasn't attracted to other women, but when I'm in love everyone else is completely invisible to me, no one else matters. My world was her and her two kids and I was content until I lost it. She kicked me out in the winter streets, It was frigid, nothing but the clothes on my back, she replaced me with a man who's been cheating on her every day, using her for a place to live and yet she calls him hubby? I gave this woman more love, affection, loyalty, money, and faith than I had ever given before (and I have given a lot in the past), and it was not enough to keep her. Because we can't keep what doesn't want us, and we can't be loved and respected if we first don't do so ourselves. I thought that if I just loved as my Father loved me it would be enough to find someone, to carve out my own slice of happiness, but it was never enough, and it never would be. My journey to happiness, self-worth and discovery begins now. I am trying to become the greatest writer of the 21st century to write books that last forever, and affect people forever. Not this booktok drivel, I don't care to be rich, I've had money, I've lost it, I just want that feeling of knowing I did what was I born to do, leave an impression on people with my stories that would last forever. Also I've been: Raped, Jailed, Hanging out with Gangsters, Allegedly a heroin dealer, a journalist, a musician, a born-again Christian, etc. I have many experiences of the human condition at it's worst and I want to share it with the world.
Being a tortured artists is actually terrible. Imagine putting all of your energy into creating something; something that you think is really great and no one ever realizing that. All that time and effort amounting to nothing. Look at Nick Drake, he made truly moving and beautiful music that no one listened to. Not unil he was long dead.
Please! I hate the idea of not being appreciated during one’s lifetime and am confused as to how that became a romanticized thing. Imagine how not only frustrating but lonely that must be…
I know artists and as a creative myself thinking of doing the same - if not appreciated during their living years (creative work) they have plans for said work to be destroyed when they die so no one can know it after either - it is tempting to me as well.
idk i feel like i have a different interpretation on the "tortured artist." yeah i guess some would be like how you described but i mostly think of Beethoven. He was extremely famous when he was alive. however because of his deafness he was deprived of his only passion in life, which was music. I feel like the "tortured" part is not necessarily material but something personal as well.
I think it’s HILARIOUS that that person commented that writers need have “experiences” to write when a LOT of writers, past and present, are almost literal hermits. That actually cracks me up. Writers who have the privilege to travel or gain unique, awesome experiences are definitely an exception to the rule. Also, what about writers of fantasy? You don’t actually visit those worlds and you’re not actually in those situations. You don’t actually learn how to take on a dragon or how to walk across a dessert. That’s all imagination bro. The imagination is what overrides experience, especially in today’s day and age when you can look up pictures or videos about just about anything or anywhere.
"...especially in today’s day and age when you can look up pictures or videos about just about anything or anywhere." The point of having experiences isn't just _research_ though. The point is also that having experiences _changes_ you, "travel broadens the mind" etc. The contention being that living a varied, eventful life fuels creativity. Basically, you have something worth "outputting" because you have a rich, varied set of "inputs". Watching a RU-vid video of e.g. "running with the bulls" is categorically not _remotely_ the same in that respect as travelling abroad to meet numerous new people in a place with a different language and culture to yours then taking part in a collective (and potentially dangerous) physical pursuit. Personally i'm not sure it's true (and the potential barriers it raises bother me) but it certainly doesn't seem a totally preposterous idea, despite your attempts to present it that way. "Writers who have the privilege to travel or gain unique, awesome experiences are definitely an exception to the rule." Citation needed. But even if true, _great_ writers are the exception too. Like yourself, I don't have any actual data either but i'll go ahead and make my own bold, unsubstantiated claim that a higher proportion of _great_ writers lead relatively eventful lives than not (for one thing, partly by the nature of how we define "great", a lot of them are from past eras when just the business of living was often more "eventful").
@@anonymes2884 "The contention being that living a varied, eventful life fuels creativity. Basically, you have something worth "outputting" because you have a rich, varied set of "inputs"." Valid points. I get it from that perspective too. I'm just not going to say that people who aren't privileged enough to travel or have unique, life changing experiences don't have anything worth writing about. Imagination can sure be fueled by experiences, but is not defined by them. Children have some of the best imaginations out there and they have very limited experiences. Experience can always help though, I'm not going to lie. "Like yourself, I don't have any actual data either but i'll go ahead and make my own bold, unsubstantiated claim that a higher proportion of great writers lead relatively eventful lives than not (for one thing, partly by the nature of how we define "great" . . ." I agree that defining "great" very much depends on society, culture, and individual opinion. I would say that a lot of "successful" writers do not have mind blowing, life changing experiences constantly throughout their lives. I get you wanting citations, but I'll just suggest to start looking up biographies on authors you think are "great" and see how much they experienced in their lifetime, especially BEFORE they became authors. Most of them led relatively normal childhoods and went to college and then published a book (unless it's Hemingway, because that man liked to do things XD ). I think another problem here is defining what an "eventful life" looks like to each of us. I would say that the average person has an eventful life just by living and experiencing normal day-to-day human experiences. An exceptionally eventful life would be more rare to me and I would actually also love to see the stats on how many successful authors have exceptionally eventful lives as well. All my opinion comes down to is that if someone wants to write, they shouldn't feel that they can't because they "have a lackluster, experience deprived life" according to Twitter. Many people don't realize that they have plenty of things to write about because those things aren't considered "worthy of a book" by a vast majority of people. I think that a lot of authors from the past have proven that you can take a mundane, normal human experience and turn it into a best selling piece if you can write well. *As a sort of disclaimer, I'm big into fantasy and fiction novels. This definitely sways my opinion quite a bit because I read books that require a lot of imagination to write and sometimes have no equal to compare to in our world, so it has to be purely imagined or drawn instead of photographed and experienced. And thank you for your comment, it was actually helpful to think about.
The main issue is that Tiktok 'authors' overhype their books on their accounts and cater to specific tropes demographics only for the books to be mid. Most romance novels are straight up POORLY written girl boss power fantasies with guys fawning over the MC. Same trope and little plot evey time
interesting. from what I've read of the backlash against Alex Aster it looks like people are upset with her for this as well - she was making clickbaity tiktoks about the themes in her book but when people actually read it they felt like the promised theme or trope was barely there. So you're definitely onto something here
If they're selling, they're selling. Some market themselves and their books better than others, but in the end the sales mean that people wanted it enough to spend some cash on it. None of this is really about TikTok or social media, or about "selling out" or *gasp* capitalism. It's about what people value. If poorly written and juvenile books sell, the rot goes deeper than you'd maybe want to imagine.
Are they poorly written, or do you just think that writing girl boss power fantasies with guys fawning over the MCs is bad? 🤔 Also, is there really no plot, or is there just not the specific type(s) of plot(s) that personally interest or engage YOU in particular? A plot in which nothing happens except two characters meet each other and develop feelings/attractions for each other as they get closer and closer to each other while getting to know each other better and better and then get together[ either romantically and/or s*x*ally] in the end IS actually *_still_* a plot. But there is for some reason a very popular misconception that "plot" must equal action or other outside events happening or something which is in fact not especially accurate or true. Also, even literally no plot is not necessarily bad writing, if what you are purposefully writing is more of a deeply introspective character study or something rather than literally just telling some kind of a story[ of events] or another. Good writing can have many vastly differing styles and/or purposes and/or intents. And every individual reader/writer/whoever will always have their own particular tastes/preferences. 🙂
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 If those stories actually had well thought characters and their development, I doubt so many people would be saying that they're poorly written. Unless of course you've read them and have something to say. Those types of stories can theoretically be good but mostly, they are not.
Most writers throughout modern times have been relatively boring. Usually the most interesting thing about them is that they are writers. The world traveler, adventurer, warrior writer is the exception, not the rule.
And also, that kind if life is conducive to a specific type of writing. I can’t imagine proust writing down everything he saw and thought in excruciating detail had he been a “man of action”
@@accordingtoalina Absolutely right. It is also, I think, a gender biased excuse for men to dismiss the writing of women as less important and therefore less great.
@@UnknownJorge My comment was not a condemnation of what people choose to read. It was a condemnation of the attitude that only men who lead exciting/interesting lives create great literature.
@@UnknownJorge Saying that people use the idea that only writers who lead exciting and interesting lives produce great literature to dismiss the work of women is not the same as saying readers should read things they don’t want to read. Of course you can choose to read books because you find the author’s lives interesting, but you don’t get to say that those are the only authors who write great books.
Unpopular opinion I don't think TikTok is necessarily ruining reading or writing its just bringing forth bad trneds that always have existed in these communities. There's always been hyperconsumerism, toxic cukture of reading challenges, and skeletons in the publishing industry or overproduction over quality (James Patterson has literally been producing multiple books a year for decades) its just now we're more aware.
This is interesting and I think applies to social media in general. I guess the answer lies in figuring out whether social media platform are just an expression of what was already there or can they actually influence behaviour
By definition though, a "bad trend" on a bigger scale _is_ worse. Even IF it's true that hyper-consumerism has always been a thing, it's surely the case that a thousand people being hyper-consumers isn't as bad as a _million_ people doing it. And it seems beyond contestation to me that social media like TikTok, Twitter, RU-vid etc. driven by "the algorithm" _amplifies_ things, some good (minority voices are louder) and some not so much (idiots are _also_ a "minority" - well, hopefully anyway, some days I wonder :). So TikTok "ruining" reading and/or writing strikes me as hyperbolic (the truth is, we just don't know yet what, if any, long-term effect it's having) but "changing and probably not for the better" seems entirely plausible to me. I certainly don't think it's making _us_ better.
Harlequin and all its various associated publishing imprints/houses/etcetera has also been putting books out with ridiculous regularity for decades and decades. Think of authors like Nora Roberts, one of the most prolific writers ever, obviously far pre-dates social media too. The types of writers that exist come as varied as the types of readers do, always have and likely always will. The problem is really just when everyone gets too locked into any particular thing or another being "THE ONE true most-absolutely-ultimate bestest thing" or whatever. But, yeah, people do for sure also need to try and be a little bit more conscientious of exactly what trends they are or aren't perpetuating most and why.
As someone who's living in the middle east, and as a woman living in Iran, we have stories to tell. There's just no one to listen. Pain and suffering are still going on here. We're living in T.S.Elliot's Wasteland. Don't forget our existance. We're not dead yet...
I need to make a compelling story out of your stories. Some actually go back century and in itself reveal epics way more back to the dawn of pre humanity
I saw a thread recently by agents stating that social media presence plays very little in their choosing of an author to represent. The same was reiterated by withCindy on twitter when she said that her social media numbers didn't determine her landing an agent. The idea that tiktok is getting authors book deals is grossly misrepresented. A self pub book going viral can get a book deal. An author having hundreds of thousands of followers means little. I think it's laughable that people are talking about a lack of great writers when Percival Everrett, Dom DeLillo, Jeffrey Eugenides, Elif Shafak, Donna Tartt, Elena Ferrante, Maryse Conde, Jamaica Kincaid, Bryan Washington etc, exist. If you can't find Great Literature™ that's a you problem.
But people are kind of spoiled/pampered and really want things delivered to them now rather than to actually have to go out and get it for themselves. Lol People want the absolute maximum reward possible for the absolute minimum effort/investment/whatever they can manage. But they forget that it takes a lot of discernment and effort and strategy and such to be frugal and efficient and productive. But, I dunno, maybe that's just me and my own thoughts. 🤷 🙂
Writes: "A self pub book going viral can get a book deal. An author having hundreds of thousands of followers means little." Does not realize irony or self-contradiction in that.
The topics you touched on in this video are basically why I decided to stop pursuing publishing altogether. My creativity and my mental health have suffered a lot over the years. The pressure of trying to treat my writing like a job/business/profession/career has done a lot of damage. I'm still struggling to get back to the joy of writing and having fun with it like I did when I was younger. I constantly have to remind myself that I don't have to cater to other people's tastes or worry about their opinions. I don't have to be "productive." It's okay to let my writing remain a hobby. Speaking of that, I think there's way too much pressure these days to turn anything you enjoy into a business. If you have a talent, you MUST use it to make a living. God forbid you work for someone else in order to pay the bills! 🙄 And if you do decide you want to profit from your creativity, you're forced to sell yourself whether you like it or not. Well, call me lazy, but I have no desire whatsoever to be a social media star. Y'all can have all the money and fame. I'd rather have what's left of my sanity.
Both sad and glad to read about your experience. Sad you had to struggle but happy you’re in a better place! If it helps at all, I’m still figuring out my own boundaries when it comes to writing for myself and writing for “content”. I don’t think there’s one correct of doing writing as a job and you’re right, it’s incredibly high pressure and very little reward, unless you get very lucky
Sounds very familiar, great that you are doing better! I was putting my book out chapter by chapter and it was so awfull to read all the opinions, even though they were mostly positive - it made me feel I need to modify my next chapter to cater to them. Showing your unfinished process sounds like a nightmare. I deleted twitter and all those chapters and now write for myself, creating all I wanted from the start. Maybe I will put the finished book out one day, but it is not a priority to get some hearts emojis anymore.
I’m kinda in the same place. It’s just not worth the mental health to try to sell it. I’d rather just put out the story on substack, do short subjects and let my work just be fun. If my friends read it, great. And this is also driving me towards shorter stories- I don’t need to do a huge project to publish, I just need to play with the concepts.
THIS 🙌 You've put it perfectly. I want to write and I have a story, but seeing all of the other "authors" on youtube work, seeing how you should create a personal branding and all of that - I'm not even close to finishing my first draft, but somehow the comparison to others and pressure to be successful have weighted on me, making me uninterested in doing my own hobby! I am pressuring myself to create something profitable, instead of enjoying my silly little story! I am so glad, to find someone, who feels similar. Here is to all of us 🥂 may we find happiness in our hobbies and re-start creating for ourselves!
this puts so many thoughts I've had into words, especially about what makes a "great writer". A lot of the traditional ideas of what a great writer looks like revolve around privilege i.e. having the money to travel/live in other countries or even knowing that you will be relatively safe whilst solo traveling (which women don't always have)... and that the whole attitude of writing for yourself and not caring about commercial success is like ????? how do people pay rent then??
how does a writer pay rent if they're just writing for themselves and not necessarily for commercial success? The answer: by working a job and writing in their free time.
I am so over the tortured artist narrative! Having these kinds of experiences can influence your art (just how other kinds of experiences ALSO influence your art) but I know so many people who struggle with the fear of no longer being a good artist/creative if they "get better" or stay on their meds. You do not have to be sad or in a crisis to make good art! Your art will probably be different but it will not be better or worse! All art is inherently valuable for different reasons! Please I am begging whoever is perpetuating the tortured artist narrative to please stop!
Stephen King touches on this in his book “On Writing”. He’s specifically speaking about the raging alcoholic cliché and how, as with anything, you cannot sustain a career if you’re struggling with substance abuse
I am a tortured artist in that I've had a lot of tragedy in my life and one of my main copings in art and writing but its not a label I like to associate with unless my writing is about tradgey. I would say to those people with those fears I know what its like to have that fear you aren't you without your traumas I feel like that too and my best ideas and concepts did come from my traumas. That is true for me my art is worse and not valuable when I'm not suffering. However I can only work on those ideas if I am better and on my meds cause without them i'd be less disciplined and cry in my bed all day. Meds and getting better arent meant to make you less emotional or even take away that part of you, meds are meant to help you focus more so you can write these emotions down without having your trauma take away your time.
You act as though being a tortured artist is something people choose when it’s almost always thrust upon them. No one WANTS to be unhappy, but circumstances, sometimes out of your control determine that, and it’s the art they create as a response those circumstances that brings them relief. That catharsis is from their intense emotional pain is what bleeds out on the page. It’s the raw honest that attracts others to their work. Technical ability only gets you so far in fiction when you’re the most smack dab average person who hasn’t known real suffering. And that’s fine! Go live your happy life!
Incredible , diverse writers with experiences on conflict, societal oppression etc are still alive and writing today. I am convinced people saying otherwise literally just get their rec commendations from popular tiktok videos and that is their ‘analysis’ on writing today. It is also an incredible privilege l travel the world and sit inside all day. Talent and dedication is what makes a writer
This!! I was recently thinking about all the Palestinian writers and artists killed over the past 6 months… but as I was writing in a reply to someone else, when people talk about the state of “literature” most of the time they’re talking about Western Europe
@scottysbottom5769 I am sure that if you actually take the time to look for good writers who write in English, you will find them. They are just underrated.
People who say there are no great writers anymore are people who don't read. There's absolutely no problem with popular writers in terms that there are always existed books of lower quality and value, the cheap thrills. The only one issue that I can seriously consider is an issue of attention span visibly diminishing in many people. The fact that people in book groups are complaining that they can't read Stephen King because his books have too many words.... Well then what's going to happen if they try Victor Hugo who has chapters and chapters describing a building for example.
To be fair, I think older writers took a lot of liberties with that sort of thing. Many writers I think were paid per word - their stories being published incrementally - which is why their finished works are absolutely massive. They were incentivised to be overly verbose.
You should read “Who Canonizes the Classics” by Stephen Leacock. I honestly think its assessment both of what makes a literary classic and why there won’t be anymore still hold true today.
@@cloudsinmykoffie I’m so sorry, I thought I commented to that effect! It’s an essay in his 1941 collection “My Remarkable Uncle” and you can find the whole thing free online via project gutenberg!
I would love to become a writer one day, when I have lived some more life and settled a bit in general...but the idea that I would need to put myself out there before hand and sell myself as much as my book is horrifying. I have a very unique name and a sort of public job, and I would probably want to write under a pseudonym, but SM would not allow that. I'm not saying I will be this, but I just know this is also putting off some hidden amazing writers out there.
I guess all types of writing come with a bit of “putting yourself out there”, unless you’re Elena Ferrante. Maybe you can come up with a cool story as to why you refuse to participate in public life
As nearly a life-long writer in nearly every form (except poetry - I can't write poetry for shit), gotta tell you that if you want to be a writer, you better start now. Learning to be a competent writer (ie know how to push the reader's buttons), takes a longlonglonglonglonglong time. You're going to write a lot of lousy prose hung on crappy structures to begin with, and the sooner you get that out of the way, the faster you'll get to where you can write a scene and go "That's not bad..." So pick up your pen or keyboard, and start living on the edge of insane, and learn how to set the world on fire, because that's what the Baddest do...(with apologies to K/DA...)
If you're putting your work out there and plan on querying traditional publishers: STOP! It's very rare that you can publish traditionally a book that's been already available on your blog or social media. Yes there are some successful examples but they are NOT the rule. Share published stories or flash fiction, share samples of work you know for sure you'll self publish. Don't share work you want to present to an agent or acquiring editor. And go to workshops about publishing before you start your journey. Don't just listen to advice you get on a RU-vid channel or on a random blog. You'll get different advice when you become part of a professional writing group/ organization. I know, I'm going through that journey now. And honestly: yes promotion and social media is important but no, not mandatory to get published nowadays. If you want to write, write! Also get educated about what to expect and network as much as you can. But write, write, edit, write. Your work has to be engaging before you can jump on any social media to promote.
This is such great advice! I would only add thar if you are taking advice from people online get it from agent interviews and q&a and also check out advice from agents in you own territory!!!! (Unless you’re writing in English and are looking for an agent in US or UK)
@accordingtoalina to be honest in some genres social media participation is much more necessary, because a lot of the community is online. I know for romance, fantasy and sometimes horror there are strong online communities and authors may need to become involved in advance if they want to publish. But literary fiction is not tied to social media success (there are always exceptions of course). Crime fiction is also not as chronically on Twitter as other genres (at least that's my impression).
As a writer on tik tok I wish I got better interaction and comments people are less likely to pause and read a poem because of TikTok’s effect on attention span.
@@accordingtoalinaI think the same question could be made about prose, or writing and reading in general. But I haven't watched the full video, so my opinion may change when I complete it.
@@accordingtoalina probably not but I have friends on there so I use it. Instagram should be the best place but the algorithm on there is BRUTAL you don’t get any interaction if ur not popular somewhere else most of the time.
Idk if this is something you want to do but a writer I know records themself reading out their poem and then edits it with stock videos and music they've found that fit the poem. They've gotten a small but decent amount of engagement from this.
One of the things I’ve noticed is the number of recently published books I’ve read lately have been really poorly edited. It’s almost as if the editing process was either curtailed or cut out completely in order to get the book out as quickly as possible. Maybe because the publisher wanted to jump on some trend and/or thought they’d make more money if they managed to get the book on shelves as soon as humanly possible. Anyway, that’s what I was thinking about while I was watching this video.
No one is mentioning this (it seems?) but writing is WORK. It tends to be romanticised bc dug. But Writing is a dedicated practice. Writers, like all people, are varied with many individual differences. It’s not necessarily an adventurous spirit, but a dedication to put considered thought pen to page. Many people start off as okay writers but can improve with effort and love for it. Which is the same for being good at anything.
I do think that booktok is filled with people reading the same 5 books and it's always romance mixed with porn. Lazy writing, nothing to really reflect on. That's what I've seen at least. That and overconsumption
Heard someone say its their wattoad/ ao3 phase but delayed I had it Quite Grew out of it I feel it will die down after a while The audience will mature and so will the book probably@@callnight1441
there are really good booktok accounts out there that read and recommend actual good books, but they're a bit hard to find. I follow a few that I found by chance thanks to the Tiktok algorithm
@@callnight1441 I partially agree with this but a lot of the popular booktok books have smut, so I reckon they aren’t being aimed at teen girls. and if they are, then it also raises the issue of why porn is being peddled to them in the first place. for the record, I don’t believe teens can’t or shouldn’t read about sex but there’s still a difference between teens engaging with adult content on their own terms vs. explicit adult content being shoved into books meant for younger audiences.
There are good writers, they just aren't writing tiktok genre fiction. Popcorn fantasy and smut have been things for decades and they've been popular for decades and people have been doing think pieces about how literature is dead for hundreds of years now. It does suck that social media is making more useless labor for a certain type of author but that type of author is also not representative of the whole of literature. Isabelle Allende is alive and well, Murakami is still chugging, George Saunders, Margaret atwood, Cormac McCarthy, Thomas Pynchon, Alice Walker. So many great novels have been published in the last 10 years.
They're all kind of old now is the thing. Hell you mentioned two people who are dead! I think the problem is that in the perception of many, the great millenial/gen z writer hasn't appeared out of the muck yet. That was supposed to be Junot Diaz, but now it's kind of like a lot of people are waiting for the new anointed great writer. There's always been Colleen Hoover's but there isn't that Allende or Murakami who's come out of the bog yet with their Blood Meridian or House of the Spirits
Here in Brazil (and latino America in general) people write because they want to, they don't earn a lot of money and most of them have other jobs to be able to buy stuff they need. I'm sure there are a lot of good artists (all kinds of, not just writers) everywhere, we just have to look harder to find them. And I've been reading a lot of great stuff, no idea what books tik tok recommends.
the argument that "there are no more great writers" also comes from a very egocentric way of seeing things, because english is not the only language books are written in, these people forget that there are so many more writers outside of english literature and english speaking countries, people need to read some translated work for heavens sake. is very selfish to think or assume that in other countries and languages there are no good writers.
I agree! Everytime I see one of this "tiktok is ruining reading/literature" videos I never feel like this is relevant to what is going on in my country when it comes to reading. But then I don't live in an english speaking country...
this is a very good point - I think that when it comes to viral social media discussions, they tend to revolve around wester/anglophone countries. "there are no great writers anymore" on twitter means "if Hemingway started writing in America today no one would care"
Thats exactly what I was thinking, as a literature student of Mexico you can bet that Mónica Ojeda, Mariana Enriquez and Yuri Herrera are beyond great, and many of them are translated to english
That is so interesting! An author whom I love and would 100% point to as a great modern author is Kate Elizabeth Russel (author of My Dark Vanessa). One thing about her is that she is very online but not very "online". She presents herself as having grown with and on the internet: on forums, on Tumblr, in writing communities, has a blog, a newsletter... Yet, this presence seems to have evolved very slowly towards (not anonymous) social media: she posts very sporadically on Instagram though she did more stories when she had things to highlight. Even this is more of an extension of her aesthetic collages and reflections than a sole promotion tool. (Also, spot on about some of the tortured artists. So many are considered lonely because of their works, yet their wives typed them and they presented said works in salons after discussing them over absinthe at the café with the friends who literally published and publicized them!)
yesss! I haven't read My Dark Vanessa yet (it's on my list tho!!!), but from the excerpts I read online I can totally see it becoming a modern classic which would grant Russel “great author” status even more
@@Em__Cn idk maybe one day it could be like the teenage teacher on student sa version of the bell jar judging by it's reviews and what I read kf it. Other than that I don't find it to be a particularly good book.
Your point about the “tortured artist” can’t be one that makes a lot of money, and that we as a society hate paying people for their art - what if it’s deeper than that? What if people become resentful if someone isn’t a “starving artist” and makes a decent living off of their art because then it would mean that art is a worthwhile pursuit and one that can make a living. Not that it isn’t a worthwhile pursuit already, but in the eyes of those who maybe abandoned their artistic passions to secure a career which would make them money. Those resent the ones who made it, or are at least happy with the life their art has given them.
Yes yes yes! For a while now I’ve noticed a tendency to put down people who have “made it” with their creative pursuits. This “sure they’re good at music/painting/writing but their personal life is a mess” or they have an illness or an addiction… it’s almost like when we see someone successful in a discipline that doesn’t have a tried and trusted career path or that seems enjoyable and not a lot of work from the outside, we have to put them down a bit to make ourselves feel better
A terrific video as always Alina. Just my personal opinion, unless an author holds abhorrent personal views that shine through in their work, I honestly could not care what background the writer has. So long as they can tell a good tale, why does it matter?
Experiences and the ability to observe the world around you are great indicators of a great writer. Sure, Kafka might have not traveled the globe but he sure as hell experienced it. He suffered and he loved, and then wrote about it. Rotting in bed will not make you a great writer, and most importantly -- it will not make feel good. Don't force yourself into solitude just because some corpse did it 100 years ago, live your life as best as you can and try to leave a few lines behind, that's it
Every single human on this planet has something to say because every single human is living the human experience. So it’s actually impossible to not have anything to say. Even the most boring person on the planet could write something compelling about boredom, loneliness, isolation, age, death … that’s what connects us all.
hmm I certainly agree that everyone has something to say but I'm not so sure about the "compelling" part. Not everyone has the talent/skill to put their thoughts, emotions and experiences into words in a way that's articulate and compelling. My favourite writers are the ones who manage to articulate seemingly ineffable experiences and feelings
Many classic writers also weren't poor. Some could travel and gain experience and be enigmas BECAUSE they had wealth. Having money can lead to questionable ideas and behavior, but it's not an inherently bad thing for an author to have. On the Taylor Swift album -- I heard that the title comes from one of her ex's group chats called "The Tortured Man Club." But I like that she changed the title in a way that does seem to reflect her. I'm really hoping for some classic break-up music AND some introspection like we saw in the last album. Is it all a facade? Maybe. But damn if I'm not bought in.
Oooh thank you for the swiftie context - I missed the first and second big Taylor Swift bandwagons and now it’s too late to get into her music for me. But always fascinated by the little world she’s created
nothing is ending, we are just not used to how fast paced and intertwined things have become. although some people are already born with that rhythm in mind, time has yet to marinate our youth. just believe in the human spirit, and wait.
Hi, this my first time on your channel but I love the way you present your information! Will come back! I wanted to note: Another facet of "Being a Great Writer" in modern culture is, in the literal sense of the phrase (not the glorified sense with all its cultural implications of being a veteran and a drunkard and a hermit), there are TONS of great writers now who don't write books. TV shows have more good writing than ever. Video games react narratively to minute player choices and have something to say about the players. RU-vid essays like this, blogs, etc. all have examples of incredible writing. I have cried at the honesty and authenticity of a good Tumblr post. But these things are considered "disposable" and "commercial" so they WON'T be ""Great"" TM in the big cultural way. But I don't think that makes it bad and I don't think you have to have mass appeal to be "Great". When people decry the death of culture because of popular trends, they clearly haven't seen THE REST OF HUMAN HISTORY doing the exact same thing
Aaah thank you so much, hope to see you again! And thanks for sharing your thoughts! I agree that a lot, if not most, online media gets automatically discarded to the “content” category, when in reality a lot of people are producing incredible things…
I am so glad I found your channel. Black Rock owns everything, especially media and publishers, that's why the Tik Tok problem. Tik Tok is dopamine-fed mind control, one minute at a time.
You almost made me tear up at the end. I started following you because I loved your analysis of La Divina Commedia, but these video essays are so good!
There are plenty of excellent writers who aren't active on social media, especially outside the US and perhaps less so in popular genres like romance or thriller. However, it's worth noting that many of the most successful writers worldwide focus primarily on their craft rather than social media presence. These writers delve into meaningful topics and produce substantial work that resonates deeply with readers.
I agree that observation is the most fundamental skill alongside talent that a writer can have. I'm thinking Fyordor Dostoevsky who experienced much of what he wrote about but was also the quintessential observer
Regarding Taylor Swift, I'd say she uses the hell out of every situation when she was to any degree mistreated to write songs (like the whole Kanye situation, her masters being sold - you bet she's not letting any of this die down), but one of her biggest recent singles literally contains the words "I'm the problem". So it's rather she romanticizes all her experiences for all they're worth, which does give me some tortured poet vibes.
Prose is a poor fit for social media. Unlike visual artists, writers cannot simply share snippets of their work and build hype organically through them. Most people find flash fiction intensely annoying, and excerpts from works in progress are even more unpopular. Thus writers adapt, pivoting their content marketing more towards topics *about* writing and/or the Aesthetic around the "writer lifestyle" (how do all these people afford these international trips??)
I wish prose writing would come back I love it so much I write it myself but people hate it so much. 😢😢😢I mean reading SJM ran up my blood pressure cause she writes like a 15 year old doing fan fiction for her first time.
So I just started the video so idk if you get into this, but the Jack Edwards video that you showed I believe was the one where he mentioned that there are good books out there you’re just looking at the wrong tags. I don't have TikTok, but it really feels to me that it's like a echo chamber. Once you get stuck in one place all you can hear are the same opinions or books ect. I think the key is to not get stuck and just go out there and look for what you want. There are great authors with amazing prose and characters. I firmly believe that there are great writers like Brandon Sanderson, Robin Hobb, Joe Abercrombie and so, so many more. I also think what genre you're talking about effects the discussion. Edit: 5 minutes in and I completely misinterpreted what the topics of the video could be 😅. My definition of a 'great writer' didn’t fully include the writers personality and their life experiences.
Yes, Jack is correct in saying that there are lots of great people on booktok BUT the algorithm is constantly learning about you, so if you’re hate-watching videos about smut it will keep giving you that. So you have to be very picky with the stuff you pay attention to or just type very specific things into the search bar so that the algo understands your vibe
Another interesting and insightful video, thank you Alina. "I don't care and it's none of my business" is a good summary of my attitude towards authorial branding and backstories in general, but that's probably an eccentric attitude. As a flippant aside, I think we can safely say that Charles Dickens would have been all over social media, so it's not as if the writer as performer and self promoter is a new phenomenon - more that it's become the norm rather than the exception now.
I completely agree with you on the idea that the "great writer" is kind of a mystification based on different factors (wealth and class status being huge ones) and I also think that literature is not always the fact of great writers. For every period there's gonna be people who write books because that genre is a trend, whether it's adventure novels in the 19th century or romantasy full of tropes in the 21st. But the thing is, we don't necessarily read stuff by great writers, reading can be entertainment and the figure of the author is, as you said, greatly romanticized!
And to add to this, something I forgot to say in the video: great literature is decided by posterity. It’s very possible that we will never know who the greats of our time are
I think technology has democratised access to a large extent. The problem is a lot of people want to be artists so the competition is ridiculously fierce. And the competition has also become perverse - in order to succeed as a writer, it helps to be a young attractive woman to first succeed on social media. It doesn't seem unlikely that the books promoted by publishers will now be kind of lame, because in order to sell copies the book doesn't have to be good, it has to be written by someone with the power to persuade people to buy it.
I see there are many people saying that modern writers lack experience to write something as great as authors of classics. But the thing is not about traveling or having a troubled life, it's about being able to be a great OBSERVER of life itself. Observing doesn't mean only watching and superficially describing, but also interpreting it into a form of idea that artistically portrays aspects of society and world
But the issue at hand is most people block what they could learn from new writers because they have this Lens of nostalgia and they let it rule there lives and enjoyment so easily
@@krow5099 It's also true, but in the same time I see where that kind of nostalgic lens comes from. I can't tell for the English-speaking world and literature market, but the most consumable (and consequently written by modern day authors) stories in my language are: sci-fi fantasy, magic fantasy, idealistic romance (with two subtypes: dramtic or perfect relationships). Plots that go around one thing and limited by one dimension of its genre (although these aren't genres but rather "tags"). People read them because they want to "have fun or relax and not think" as they say, so the demand is high, while anything else is just getting overwhelmed or passes unnoticed
@@yoshibros8904 but it’s the same with politics and religion nostalgia is ruining things and cheap easy non talented writers are ruining another there is basically no balance within the world. Yeah your right a lot of good authors are no being noticed, and it’s gross. And look I like a bit of junk food books, but when it’s overwhelming to a point where it messes up business practices for people who have been working on there books for decades it’s gross. This is why I’m glad I write for myself and not instant gratification. Now imma snuggle up and read me some Samantha Shannon
I feel like modern writers lack literature experience not like life experiences 😭😭 alot of modern writers don't seem to read or write enough to execute the concepts they use in their books, esp with the amount of evil and horrible love interest smut books. I always feel like those books are repetitive, lack plot development and even the smut is boring. Just a thought
Good video, the part about bestsellers was super interesting. I believe social media has complicated succeeding as any type of traditional artist, but also the publishing industry has always been inaccessible to many types of authors. It does suck that book deals are being given around with social media marketibility in mind, but I don't think even before social media they ever signed a book they thought they couldn't market.
About the initial thread talking of how full of experience and adventures writers used to have - that's only a piece of the picture. People in general strive from acquired knowledge and how creative they are. This is especially true for writers. Their ability to make others dream with them is what make them remarkable, in my opinion, and I take as an example one I grew up reading, Malba Tahan. He wrote many Arab tales filled with moral values, reflections, enigmas and wonders. Malba Tahan was also the pseudonym of a Brazilian math teacher/writer (Júlio César de Melo e Souza) who most likely never stepped foot off Rio de Janeiro and believed nobody would care about his stories had he not created this persona. He understood the game and found his niche, like so many others try to do through social media nowadays. It is really special to live in a time you may so easily share your work and get feedback. The writing might not be brilliant, nor the ratings, but it is a pretty fair bargain. Writers cook up something in their taste or what they think will please the masses, readers navigate the options out there and pick their flavours. In a bag of flavoured beans some ought to be shite.
I think that people forget how small online world can be and that while it has power to move trends not everyone is on booktok only reading or writing to cater to the book Tok that people seem to hate.
There are so many amazing writers today who are going the self-pub or indie route, bypassing the whole agent hunting rigamarole to sell just as many copies with a bigger press. And because there are so many small presses specializing in more niche genres all online, experimental and subversive literature have never been healthier or better. Anyone who says there aren't great contemporary writers isn't reading contemporary literature.
I'm an artist, and I do struggle with creating content to feed social media algorithms. But I don't like it either when people kinda complain about algorithms or low engagement from other people too much. Because both social media and the people there don't owe us anything. Social media sites want us to stay at the site as long as possible, and the people on the sites want to be entertained. The people who succeed in social media are people who can please both of those purposes. And unfortunately 'please look at/buy my art' do not entertain those 2 purposes. Gotta find that balance
I’m literally trying so hard to balance our learning how to write with everything else I have going on in my life, but I’m promise you, I have the best stories to tell. I can’t stand seeing vids of people asking why a certain medium is doing bad (not in an insulting way) but in a I wish I could just have the time I needed to get big enough for people to see that there is good content that can be made, and not all of the work has to be lazy or boring. Work that can be great and also become popular that feels like a masterpiece. Not only love and care going into it, but actual quality writing. Like I genuinely wish the hyperbolic time chamber from Dragon Ball Z was real sometimes. I could get so much done if that dimension existed (for those who don’t know what that is, spoilers: In Dragon Ball Z, there’s a place called the hyperbolic time chamber, which is basically another dimension where time moves differently. A year in there is 1 day in the real world. Has a nice house, and infinite food in there. Can get 1 year or work done in a day. You age 1 year in there as well, but eh, not so bad if ya ask me)
As an author currently querying agents, and having these exact thoughts on my mind 24/7, I absolutely adored hearing this poignant commentary. Thank you so much for vocalizing this phenomenon. The idea of having to pump out vasts amount of 'content' while simultaneously trying to channel my focus into my work, my art, is a bit nauseating. I'm against this modern era of the artist having to become content creators / brands / PR people / etc. Perhaps there's a healthy middle ground I can occupy here on RU-vid. Thanks again & cheers Alina! Immediately subscribed.
Its why we need more promotion of indie writers, nit even indie publishing houses, one of my favorite writers is Soren Narnia who narrates his stories on his podcast and i love supporting his patron
I love to read fantasy novels, and I'm making my own fantasy novel with a lot of lore and worldbuilding, all in an old writing style. I'm doing it not for popularity, but to share my world, its races, its history, culture, and their stories.
Thanks, what an insightful video. I think on that last point you’re absolutely right, and it’s good to see someone thinking about this stuff in grounded material terms instead of the usual reflexive finger pointing.
I've not been published yet. Largely because I'm writing a novel in a very unorthodox way, and I have a steep learning curve to overcome. All I'm hoping for is to complete a trilogy and get the books in my hands, but social media influence taking the role that it is it is looking increasingly unlikely my books will be nothing more than Google docs I spend the rest of my life asking people to read and tell me if they like it.
Alina, I enjoyed your talk. As an old writer with a youthful perspective, your talk reminds me of this. Great writers, whether from the past or today, share the ability to capture the essence of human experience and connect with readers on a deep level. Both explore universal themes and have the power to shape culture. The difference lies in how they reach their audiences. Past writers had more time to develop their ideas and wrote for readers who could spend time with their work. Today’s writers must adapt to a fast-paced, digital world, engaging with a global audience in real-time, often crafting their words to fit online platforms' quick, fragmented nature. Keep up the great work!
Totally agree with you about Ariana Grande. Unless Ariana is coming after my boyfriend it's none of my business to call her a homewrecker. I don't care if celebrities are bad partners, I'm not dating them. My experience of their art is not ruined by learning they are cheaters or mistresses, also homewrecker is such a ridiculous term.
Ariana won't come after your boyfriend, but girls who look up to her and see that she's neglected or praised for it, might! If you don't care about celebrity influence it doesn't erradicate it out of existance. And let me also remind you that, instead of a cheating narcissist we could've had a better person being that pop singer. Meaning: if the society stopped accepting these inhumane behaviors, they would have been replaced by genuine, down to earth people!
@melofy-vibes what does being a good person have to do with being a good artist? I don't think we need society to make only pure and morally superior people successful, does not leave room for rehabilitation and we lose aesthetic and artisitc value. Also I don't think that's how cheaters or mistresses (and whatever the word is for the male counterparts) work, people need to already have those values/lack thereof to be influenced. Going after someone's partner is not the same as buying r.e.m beauty, Ariana can't make someone do it.
@@SoVidushi Influence is not a surface level change that happens in people. It's psychological and happens through time, often indirectly. Of course she can't change people's values as an individual person, but she's merely an example here. My problem is with the normalization of a toxic behavior in the society. This can and will change some people's values.
I don’t think there are no good writers. I think the publishing landscape of today favors “fast fiction,” and, well, fast fiction is often written fast. The good writers who actually take the time and put the passion into their books aren’t able to make a living for themselves writing, but therefore they can’t put that time their books take, and their books don’t get finished. Why fast fiction is favored now is an entirely different question lol.
Have you seen the movie Old Acquaintance from 1943? Bette Davis plays a serious author, and Miriam Hopkins plays her friend. Miriam “churns books out like sausage.” They’re all cheap romance novels that make a lot of money. She’s also an over-the-top performative personality. Bette writes great books slowly and they don’t sell. That was 81 years ago.
Things have both changed and stayed the same for artists here in the west. Allow me to eloborate. Art has always been reserved to those with the resources to make it. The most important resource for an artist is TIME and MONEY. Imagine who was successfully painting in the 1600s in the Netherlands. It defintely was not a son or daughter of a farmer. It was someone who came from an affluent background, or someone who was lucky enough to garner the attention of a patron that would buy their work and introduce it to their other rich friends. If we were to make a catelogue of all the famous writers in the past 300 years, I'm sure the data would showcase to us that MOST of them came from an affluent background. Most of them had the time and leisure to write, free of the obstacles and burdens of daily life and its drudgery. Money and time WILL always be an important commodity needed for an artist, regardless of the art they make. Creating art has never been for the poor. At least in our modern era, people can post their art online and garner attention for it. Will they make loads of money off of it? Probably not. But at least they will have an audience. Art that is only made for oneself is basically a diary. Art needs to be shared with others for it to create a meaninful impact. At least in our modern era, the creation of art is no longer something that only the rich can indulge in. It's something that we the poor can particpate in. Will we make monetary gain and fame? Some of us will, but most of us will not. That is just the name of the game.
@@87eargasm that isn’t the perspective I was trying to come from. Im discussing how art that is recognized by society has historically been produced by people with means and time. Your perspective has merit, and I understand where you are coming from. Your perspective actually made me ponder and think more critically. I understand this is the internet, and you can’t see me, but Im an actual human being behind the screen. I don’t know why you came at me with such an aggressive tone. It’s completely normal to disagree with another, but remember to keep it respectful. Thank you.
I don't know but, didn't Van Gogh die without a penny and then his art was recognized, and wasn't Dostoevsky poor after being incarcerated. I don't know their full story but, I think there were plenty of artists that weren't from an affluent family or, that became poor with time.
I think a lot of the decline is down to algorithmic optimization. It’s happening quite a lot in most arts - the publishing industry knows beat for beat and concept for concept what will sell. And if you’re not hitting that and can’t find examples of other books that do well you can’t really get published. You end up having to choose the “latest storylines” or be left behind. People end up nearly forced into making only highly marketable books or other arts. The other thing that happens is that because of the social media and always on, people don’t really get off by themselves to think about what they actually believe. If you want to write about a social issue, you’ve already absorbed so many takes on that issue that you can’t get at your own opinions because of all the sound bites you’ve seen, all the Twitter hot takes, all the editorial content, video, etc. that you aren’t reacting to a real world full of real people and real things but to a mirror reflecting a video screen of the real world.
I saw a tik tok (lmao) today and the creator was talking about how most of the major film directors today are usually nepo babies/people who come from a place of wealth and connections and thats why their movies fall flat when trying to portray poverty (ex: chloe zhao, director of nomadland, is the daughter of a chinese billionaire. nomadland is about poverty in the American West post-Great Recession). on the other hand, older legendary film directors like martin scorsese and others of his generation are often from the working class and therefore can produce movies that the majority of Americans can relate to. On that same vein, I think we do have great writers- we just dont give them the spotlight or the resources. Not to mention you don’t need to be “well traveled” in order to write a good story. In that case, only rich people who can afford yearly vacations would be able to write. It’s more about the human experience imo and that can be written from anyone’s perspective.
8:17 - It comes from literature originally being considered much more a subset of like either art and/or philosophy, either very impressionistic or very highly studious, I think. But then FAME and POPULARITY and RENOWN began to take over. Everybody just wanted to be known and/or remembered, and nobody remembered how many artists and/or philosophers were derided and/or forgotten in their own lifetimes until after they were no more with the world and people in it.
I was in chapters, a canadian bookstore chain; a few years ago, relaxing by brousing the stacks and the mother of some 20 something local writer who was doing book signing comes over to me and starts hard selling her daughter`s stupid junior reader book. she`s bullying me demanding I buy the stupid book and I`m like `no, quit harassing me, I have no interest in buying any book that a publisher thinks they can force me to buy by hard selling me in the bookstore`. made sure to never give that author a single cent if she cant enforce boundaries on her helicopter mother making her look horrible. then complained to the store about author`s hard selling to store customers.
The problem with publishing is that queried novels are judged based on everything except merit. "Is this author famous on socmed or tradmed, is this concept similar to a recently high selling novel, does this novel tickle the agent's personal niche interests to the extent they can self insert in the book, is it adapted from a fanfic that went viral, does it check these boxes, does it have these tropes, does it fit in this sub-genre of a sub-genre?" Which is why the shelves are looking like fast fashion micro-trends. Recently we've had a slew of Greek myth retellings... But oddly enough that doesn't translate to the industry realizing that people are interested in historical fiction that isn't set in the 1900s, or that people might want myth retellings from non-Greek-mythos, or people might want Mediterranean settings, or something reminscient of age of heroism light-fantasy. No. Nope. Thus the reliance on comps drives me insane. They want the same, but different. They want the same concept ad nauseum until audiences get sick of it. They are unwilling to look forward and only look at what sold well yesterday, not what might have a market tomorrow that isn't currently being fulfilled. They look at what sold but not what might sell. They have no business sense and could take a lesson from marketers. Publishing is a stagnant, incestuous industry functioning as a closed little circle of the same handful of people maintaining a stranglehold on publishing, which should be accessible to and dictated by the people at large. Look at what gets published and see the trends. They'll publish dozens of cookie cutter novels in one glut and leave a desert of anything else, ride it out until people are sick of it, and then latch onto the next trend. This is SICK. I don't want to read 10 greek myth retellings or a dozen dark academia novels back to back. And why do agents want you to add a biography to the query letter? Why does who I am matter? Just read the blurb and first five pages. Socmed is more about being a sociopath than about being a genuine person. In fact, the best people have the lowest socmed presence because they are offline working on their skills, not making a spectacle of themselves on twitter! Do you know what goes viral? The lowest common denominator. Thus booktok is an engine to proliferate garbage.
A great writer, in my opinion, is someone who expresses some degree of creativity, vision of, or wisdom about, the world or the human condition in the form of writing.
I hate how even if you’re getting published with the big five they still make you do your own PR on social media now. That was the main reason I didn’t want to self publish but now there’a no reason to not self publish
I'm in a discord server for a Web Serial I loved that got taken down to see if they can end up getting it published and they actually got a deal! I genuinely think perserverence and finding someone who'll actually give your book a chance. I think there's a big difference between Agents looking for books that can/will be money makers and Agents who want to actually get good stories out there that happen to have the potential of selling well.
“In the absence of an armed-conflict that is accessible to the person in question, somebody suggested they could also develop a gambling, drinking, or drug addiction.” 😂😂😂 So many layers of irony. My popcorn is officially popped and I’m so excited for the rest of this video.
I have been fascinated by the writer cliché since my teenage years, and, surprise, it gave me nothing by alcoholism. Drugs inspire you only for a very short while, than they strengthen you mental illnesses and leave you a mechanical zombie with no original thoughts. I'm sober for 2 years and now I am writing again, I even get naturally inspired without drugs which is a true blessing. Also a point I want to make - all this great writers are from the 19th-early 20 centuries, when economical situation was so different. Rent and food were cheaper, travel was somewhat easier, at least through Europe. Maybe if you are only a writer you can afford a bad habit, but as someone who must work fulltime to survive I can only write in my little free time which contradicts this idea that I can just go experience strange things. You either take care of yourself, sleep, exercise, take your meds and have the strength to write, or you go 'creatively' destroying yourself. Which I really really miss sometimes. I miss drinking vodka with homeless people at 3AM listening to their stories, or roaming the woods on drugs. But this is not the way to get shit written.
I also want to congratulate you on your sobriety and I can absolutely sympathize with feeling overwhelmed. Not everyone has equal resources to dedicate to writing. But - the great writers from the 19th to early 20th century did not live in "better times" economically. They themselves were just economically privileged. Most people were farmers and factory workers, but when was the last time you read a book by some great old-timey writer whose parents were working-class - farm hands, domestic servants, factory workers - throughout their lives? At the beginning of the 19th century, half of Britain's population, for example, was not actually literate. Many people had no access to a wide variety of books. Few people privately owned typewriters, particularly not if they were not upper middle class (lawyers or doctors or something). Self-publishing was not a thing. Most people worked much longer hours than what we consider "full-time" today. Somewhere between 60 and 90 hours a week. And still struggled with malnutrition and awful housing conditions. I think the opportunities a normal, working-class person has these days are actually better - you have the Internet to read all the classics and well-equipped public libraries, and laptops are very affordable. If one is from Europe, one can travel there with just a bike, a tent and a backpack and probably maintain nutrition and sanitation at equal or better levels than in the 19th century for very little money. I mean, our current economic situation might not be the best, but it is certainly better in general than it was before World War II. Again, the point of this is not to make you feel bad about your own struggles - they are real and significant. But writers have always been privileged, and are probably much less privileged today than in the time of the "great writers", which is likely a reason we have fewer "great writers" today - because there are so, so many talented people, and the market is flooded, and nothing is "great" anymore for more than a few weeks maybe before we move on. Also, we see our own "pulp", while the pulp of the 19th century has long since been forgotten. Just, if you feel down about your own place in this world - do not yearn for the 19th century, but be glad that you did not die of tuberculosis as a barely literate, malnourished factory worker or maid.
@@kathrinlindern2697Absolutely agree with this! Working class people rarely created literature - they were often illiterate and working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week with zero chance of working their way up any kind of economic ladder. If you can read and write, and work a more ‘standard’ week you’re already in a position of privilege a 19th century person could only dream of. Not that the 21st century doesn’t have its own complications, but we have a lot more agency now for sure.
That was a deep dive and quite interesting. While you're correct to point out many writers are outgoing people, let me remind folks that many of us aren't - indeed, our introversion was part of what made us writers, because we needed an outlet we got with few people socially. Otherwise, I've been facing many of the difficulties you brought up for some time. Your observation that writing a novel and marketing are entirely separate skill sets is on point. I spent five years writing and revising and rewriting and yet again revising a sci-fi novel, getting it into such solid shape that I could pitch it to agents and small presses. I didn't spend that time building a large social media following (how? with what?). I published poems and used that genre to network on social media, but poetry is comparatively niche, the audience is smaller, and there's little crossover with sci-fi to speak of (unless you write poetry about sci-fi concepts, which I don't). I spent most of my time writing, because I'm a writer. When finally I had the manuscript in shape - you know, per the advice everyone gives about this - I started querying agents. I met a wall of rejection. I thought the problem was that the book was too long and still not good enough. So I spent another two years rewriting and revising *again* to make it better, which involved breaking the book in half to make it into two books - it was the start of a series anyway. Queried agents afresh (a new batch, not the ones I'd already queried), pitched to small presses too. Utter silence. It's been half a year now, and I'm weighing whether I'm going to bite the bullet and self-publish online, maybe using Substack. I don't like this idea so much, as serialization doesn't seem well-suited to my novel (it's a slow-building story, not a nail-biter with a cliffhanger at the end of every chapter), but I've already decided I'm not going the Amazon/Kindle route, which just looks like launching the book into a void.
I absolutely also hate the idea of people hating on certain books just because the characters didn't adhere to their ideas of morality. They certainly forget that there's multitude of people around the world with multitude of different characteristics. There's people hating on books, novels and so on which explores characters with morals worse than the 3 days old milk in your fridge. I mean, criticism is good, analysis is good, but why do you want such characters to never grace any stories? Also, why would you hate authors for creating one, when our society time and time has proved to birth some people worse than any writer's imagination? Make it make sense.
I'm not a fan on how discourse on "media literacy" is taking place online, but I do agree that people need to learn that fictional characters are not real people, nor are they an extension of the author...
You're talking about a larger trend of people not wanting to understand the other anymore. In fact, people don't even want to see the other, let alone think about it. It has to do with atomization and algorithms, people who have been cultivated from the cradle to believe that the world revolves around only themselves and then constantly get fed content (not art, mind you, but content) based on things they've already liked. People don't like actual society anymore; an old lady gets pissed off when she sees some loudmouth teenager skateboarding on the street, a homosexual left-winger gets pissed when a group of Mormons walks by, and the Mormons in turn want to isolate themselves from him.
There are great writers today…the problem is the attention span of the mass population is at an all time low and most people either can’t be bothered or are literally unable to take their time and interpret great writing, so they turn to the blandest easy reading YA books to get their fix of “literature”. Most people don’t want to challenge themselves or learn anymore
I think it’s a massively unnuanced view that there are no great writers. Barbera Kingsolver isn’t great? Ocean Vuong? Kazuo Ishiguro and Salman Rushdie? Great writers don’t write the same as they used to because art evolves. If you don’t connect with the modern stuff as much that’s ok, but it doesn’t mean it’s not great. We look at decades and expect that many genre defining books to release every year when it can take a decade for someone to write their magnum opus.
I haven't watched the whole video so sorry if I missed something important but I disagree with this. I am an avid reader and there are many spectacular writers in New modern era science fiction and high fantasy. Adrian Tchaikovsky, Tad Williams and Alastair Reynolds are three incredible authors that come out with breathtaking new works almost every year. So I feel like I am in no shortage of amazing new books to read. But perhaps that is just my experience in my corner of the literary world with sci Fi/ high fantasy, I haven't branched out much into what might be considered classic or historical literature so perhaps you are right about this 😁
Well, a lazy mind like hers would just repeat the same sentiment where everyone collectively already agreed on and made another "video essay" and pointed out the same: Colleen Hoover bad, Dostoyevsky good. Colleen Hoover bad, Dostoyevsky good. Colleen Hoover bad, Dostoyevsky good. It's repeated at this point, I wanna root for Colleen Hoover just to piss them off. Btw, thanks for the suggestions.
There's also the side where self promotion can only take you so far. It might work the first time, but if your book is trash it might not work ever again. My, and many others', personal experience was with Meg LaTorre/iWriterly and her terrible novel The Cyborg Tinkerer. Meg started her RU-vid channel iWriterly to reasonable success. She gave writing advice and industry insider advice to get published, claiming she worked in publishing prior, and networked with a ton of authors and creators. Within this content she also promoted her own upcoming novel, The Cyborg Tinkerer. Fair enough, kind of expected these days (this was a few years ago). But when it came out... Wow. It was terrible. Agonizingly terrible. I watched the scathing reviews (and there was also 5 star review buying controversy) and out of a train wreck effect curiosity purchased the ebook. And it was worse than I even expected. So in her case I don't think her initial sales will ever be repeated. It was also initially implied that this would be the first of a series but it sounds like she's done writing. If you get your 15 seconds of social media spotlight, make sure you're properly prepared for it else it ruin you.
emily dickinson had probably the least “exciting” life imaginable and yet she’s one of the greatest poets of the english language. “interesting life experience” is definitely not needed lol
I just took a workshop with a writer who has a book coming out in September. She has no social media. Her agent and publisher told her that it was ok and she didn’t have to have social media. This made me happy!
I tend to lean more towards the George RR Martin approach: to be a good writer you need to read and write… a lot! Whether or not he’s taking his own advice now is up for discussion lol.
Being both a talented artist and a savy business person honestly sounds good for me personally. I’ve dreamed of being an author since I was 12 but I went to school to study business because I love business as a topic. And recently I found out that I have adhd and apparently people with adhd thrive in an entrepreneurial environment. So even though the work is daunting it feels like a good fit for me. I feel for the people for whom this is all entirely too much though. I’m depending on my hyperfixation to get me through the worst of it. It’ll feel terrible for anyone else though.
I finally watched the full video. I wonder why you didn't adress the fact that most of the books that are popular on Tick Tock are pretty similar in their themes (and I know that that's how trends work, but this is limiting the works that are being published and read), and that most of them follow tropes in a pretty similar manner (depending on the genre). That, there are less books with a deeper message and literary value, being read. And I'm not saying that is wrong to like certain kinds of books, but we're paying less attention to other options that are created with a different intention than solely entertaining.
true, but no one is stopping people from reading those types of books. Things like classics aren't promoted as much (school already does that) but people can still read them whenever they like.
@@katgreer6113 Yeah, but what I mean is that we are so saturated with those types of books and they're being promoted so much, by people that have a ton of influence over young people, that writers like Mircea Cartarescu and others, that write books with a deeper meaning, are left aside.
I have a bunch of videos on the topic of Tiktok/ booktok, so I focus on one aspect of the community per video to avoid repeating the same stuff over and over
@@juanestebanmoralesquevedo7002 yes, well there's a reason people aren't interested though. It's not for no reason. Like I mentioned before, school already does that. They already FORCE many students to read those kinds of books...and we all know that forcing people to do things never turn out well. I like to read classics and books with "deeper meanings" too. Only...it takes up just 20% of the things I read. I don't think you realize people come to books to escape most of the time. Not to hear someone talk about deeper meanings. Life itself is already so deep, so stressful, so tiring, etc.. A lot of the books that people recommend with deeper meanings or what not are depressing. I personally don't want to go from a sad life in reality, to a sad life in a book. No. But, if you are saying that we should be promoting "deeper meaning" books that are very joyful, witty, and funny...then yes I agree. Maybe something like Pride and Prejudice? Yes. Absolutely. Also, I just wanted you to know that even if you consider these booktok books shallow, many people sit down, read it, and find their OWN meaning in it. Sometimes , it's deep for people too.
This is a very good video, but it seems to me that the problem is a little overblown. Yes, social media is driving fatuous trends in the industry, but there remains a solid core of authors, publishers, editors, reviewers, readers and critics which are focused on talent and great literature. It reminds me of how music streaming has created a more homogeneous singles chart and personality-driven record deals (over talent). But this music is forgotten quickly, while great music is still made and remembered, but less recognised by the charts. It's almost like there are two difference pop music industries. Basically, great literature isn't 'down' because fatuous literature is 'up'. As a final point, if social media had been around in the past, we would all realise exactly how obsessed with critical success and, yes, money writers have always been. Including 'great' ones. There is plenty of surviving evidence for that.
Experience is critical for writers, and that is a true fact. Look at JK Rowling. The Harry Potter series would be a shadow of its glory if she had not worked for Amnesty International.
Except Harry Potter is bad. It's a standard coming of age story with very over the top characters designed exclusively to be loved or hated as much as possible, with no depth. It's the height of sellout writing. If Rowling had the capacity for insight, maybe her experiences would have mattered, but it's just the usual chosen one, good vs evil BS.
@@DanLyndon JKR infused nuance into the characters. Look at Snape and his redemption arc that was plotted from the beginning. It is good vs evil like every fantasy story. I wonder why you think she does not have the capacity for insight.
@@DanLyndonI would love for you to share some examples of children’s literature which doesn’t have this kind of black and white approach? Because I’m struggling to think of any… even the classics by Tolkien, Lewis, Carroll, Barrie etc follow this standard.
