Well for now they made some improvements for their pit stops and for now it's 2.7 seconds , not particularly good but it's better than in the 3 early races
@@CreamAle Well that will depend if they will reduce them to at least 2.3 seconds, if they can do that in the upcoming races, then awesome , one problem solved. If they will keep having 3 second pit stops then they will not get anything this year (apart the fact that they got Hulkenberg)
Devils advocate, seriously how often will we actually notice them when the cars are at speed and racing each other. It’s the same as how the Halo has blended into things. Hell it will likely be even more unnoticeable as they are against the tire and not the background of the car. Also the first gen Insight is a good looking car fight me.
My idea is to have them as attachments for the rain. Rain comes along, BOX BOX, inters on, rain guard on, off you go. Rain ends and the slicks are the faster option, come in, take it off, take the inters off and put on slicks and leave. It is definitely a longer pitstop which should play into the strategy nicely.
I seem to remeber people calling the Halo ugly when it was first introduced, and it turned out to be a critical piece of safety. The wheel covers, while unslightly, would improve a lot of the visability issues. Also, there have been many races where we have had to wait 2-3 extra hours for the race to be run even if the rain has let off and the track is basically ready to go, but we cant due to visability concerns.
Thanks Tommo ‼️ I've been a racing fan for 40 years+. Inclement weather is an unfortunate byproduct of racing in general.. The wheel covers were an admirable attempt to at least research the issue. It is what it is. 👍👍🏁
Ngl if they go the Red Bull X2010 route these covers could look good, reduce spray _AND_ add aero to the car, they don't look that bad right now but integrate them into the package and we could have a new era of sleeker looking race cars
I reckon the people kicking up the biggest stink over these are also the ones who complain loudest when rain stops play, and also the ones who were shouting loudest for increased ground effect aero when following became harder.
How about this: You make it so that these wheel covers can be put on or taken off the car during the race, like a front wing. Then, when the track is declared wet, all teams must put on the wheel covers during their next stop if they change onto inters or wets. Once it's dry, the covers can then be dismounted again. I think that would be a fair compromise, right?
@@peetjvv But that would be a bit silly, considering that the goal should be that the race doesn't have to be stopped. If it was easily attachable like a front wing, the changes would only take about 10 seconds per car, which would be much better (even though double stacking would become almost impossible).
@@TommoMcCluskey Hmm, not sure. I think it is possible with the right design and materials, but then again I'm no expert myself. I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. :p
I mean, they could try regulating the difusor to make the upwards spray regulated, maybe make it open up more to the sides, or at least make an attachment to the difusor that will change the difusor shape and etc
Engage Rally Mode when its raining too much. Everyone starts with a 5 second gap to the one in front and you get that delta subtracted from your race time in the end. Brilliant! /s
You know, it’s not just the tires that throw up water. I think the covers will be cancelled out from the ground effect. They wanted cars to rely more on the floor to generate the downforce, but the consequence of that is that the floor creates more suction hence throwing up more water. I’m not sure how F1 will figure it out, but you can say it’s a step. In what direction, I have no idea.
The wheel cover variant that has some holes on the sides to show the tires look like a blue garden hose was rolled into a circle. That's just about the only thing I can think of when I see that picture. So somehow I'll just put up with the black wheel cover that covers the whole thing, especially if it means we can see F1 cars comfortably racing in the rain again. It will be a wonder though how exactly pit stops work and how changeable conditions like Zandvoort 2023 would be handled, or maybe even how the wheel covers might be taken advantage of as another aero element to add downforce.
Two things that will solve this problem 1- Scrap Parc ferme if rain is forecasted, that way you adjust the set up of the car to decrease aquaplaning 2- rework the tires to produce less spray Wet weather racing is hard and dangerous nothing else we can do about it
why not put a huge umbrella on the stage? can't imagine that being more expencive than develope a new tier system just to make sure its strong enough to resist the wind
I think we should actually use something like an infrared heads-up-display or some other kind of vision enhancement so that the cars and track limits can be visible regardless of atmospheric conditions. I think that's a more reliable solution.
In formula e they had tyre covers in the gen 2 era more elevated and less restrictive but can't remember if they were effective in the rain since that was rare
Plus another part of the issue is visibility. When its wet enough for wet, the safety concern is often just visibility and spray is part of it for sure but having rain pelt you isn't great for knowing when to brake and turn in these hulking machines at high speeds with others doing the same who can't clearly see anything either
Simple solution make the cars smaller and lighter so they don't need as much downforce just like they used to be before 2017 when the bigger 2014 reg cars could still race
Want to reduce the spray from tires in the rain ? Make the rain tires NARROWER ! Narrower tires don't heed to displace as much water at a given speed. Then, you have more pressure against the track per unit of surface. So, less aquaplaning and less spray. I know, that's NOT a perfect solution. But, it can be PART of a solution. Then, have some aerodynamic element to split the spray from the diffuser and send at least part of it sideways. Only have it in wet conditions. Sure that it'll reduce the downforce, but, less spray behind the car.
I actually like the solution they've tried, because the spray has always been an issue since the cars got wider in 2017. But now there's a compromise between good racing using ground effect cars and producing the spray from the diffuser. Robbing the diffuser of downforce in wet weather conditions is asking for a catastrophe to happen. 2007-08 f1 cars could race in the wet but those cars were very twitchy and in wet conditions, it takes a ton of skill to keep the cars on the track, and with everyone going off (Nurburgring 2007) it would just tell people that f1 can't work in the wet when it has in the past. It's definitely a cut and shut solution, but people who complain about how shit it is doesn't help either. 4 hour delay or ugly looking f1 cars that produce slightly less spray than no covers? Let you decide
well theres one solution...make the tyres slower ... remember last few seasons how the wet races have been boring compared to lets say Hockenheim 2019 or brazil 2016...these big tyres spray even more than before ..smaller tyres and less effective rain tyres should fix this ,like the good old days
I'm Saying this with absolutely no Aerodynamic knowledge but could they potentially have slightly turned outwards tips on the end of the diffuser so that rather than air/water being thrown far upwards its thrown up and to either side of the car meaning it gets thrown off the track. Maybe a spec part that can clip on during pitstops which teams cannot alter & try to gain advantages from. I'm sure though that there are thousands of reasons as to why it wouldn't work 😅
why dont they just do open half shells that mounts to the wheel hub. Its not too intrusive, allows for fast tire changes, half the weight of the current prototype, blocks where a mass majority of the water comes up.
They can't beat the spray as long as they have diffusers. Just think about how a diffuser works, it reduces air pressure, which atomizes the water underneath the car straight into the air
To be fair to the covers, the halo also had a lot of criticism against it when it got introduced, now we are surely all thankful that we got it. Maybe in 5 years we are thankful because they enabled more and better wet weather races.
I wonder.. do we need this much down force? In early 2000s and 2010s we didn't have this much down force like in 2021 and this new era.. if we loose down force there wouldn't be much spray like in 2000s and wet weather racing would be back.. also it would require more driver skill to drive the car. Little shunt there is nothing thanks to better safety measures compared to then.
I feel like if it is wet that spray is insanely bad, then the racing would be slow anyways. Would these solutions be used in times that we red flag the race for now?
Tbh I don't mind the concept at all, but will be extremely interested in how the FIA plans to tackle pitstops if the track dries up mid-race, and of course the diffuser blast... But for sure noone wants another Spa 21 😀
I’m somewhat indifferent; apart from the fact that if they enclose the wheels, the cars won’t be open-wheel anymore. I thought that was kind of the whole point
Nobody will read: As an engineer, the public have zero idea how tests work. People need to stop pretending to be experts. The engineers already knew the test would "fail". They said so ahead of the test. Most of the spray is thrown up by the diffuser now. This was well understood before the test was scheduled. The purpose of the test was to try maximal versions of wheel covers to see if they'd do anything. They were cheaply 3d printed and ugly to save money. This is how you correlate wind tunnel data and simulations to real life. This is normal engineering. If the simulation said the covers would only have a miniscule 5% effect, but the drivers say actually that small difference really matters and makes us confident to race, that might be unexpected new data. That's also why you do these tests. TLDR: Engineers sometimes need to do "negative" testing. Even when you know something is ugly and dumb and bad and will fail. Because sometimes the test has unexpected results. And that can be very valuable data. Like what if the covers end up cooling the tire down a lot as they keep the spray in, and this makes it so inters can last 20% longer when the track is drying out? Who knows! So you run the test.
I wonder if it's possible to add attachments to the difusor to change the spray pattern in wet conditions, even if it's Just to to make the spray go more sideways and less focused on the driver behind
There is a practical reason to not run them all the time, overheating tires and blisters, imagine how much the closed design would Influence tire and breaks temperature, the open design is better but still would be problematic in hot tracks
Making rain wheel narrower just doesn't seem to come into the conversation Less weight, spray, speed and aquaplaning. Easier to fit spray guards as well.
Can F1 just please finally admit that the mid 2000's were peak F1 regulations so we can have; nice sound, nimble cars encouraging hard racing and races in wet conditions again?
@@d.k.n4803 Not really, but the point being that many people glorify the racing 20 years ago more than the reality of it deserves. And at least nowadays the podium isn't separated from the rest of the field by a minute.
if its safer, then its needed. Whats the point of someone looking good if they're gonna kill themselfs, the same was said about the Halo and i think Grosjean was pretty fucking happy that they were around
F1 is open wheel racing They put covers on the wheels. Hmmm. Why don't they do it like formula e but with the back wheels as well, let the teams put larger diffusers on as well.😊
I understand the problems with open wheels, but these cars just do not look right with wheel covers. F1 cars should always be open wheeled, wheel covers also have their own list of problems, like pitstops.
Its just health and saftey gone mad...it's no worse than the 80s 90s or 2000s. Martin Brundel when asked how close do you have to be to see the rain light on the back of the car in front and he's say you have to press your helmet visor up against it. The main problem is that the tyres a rubbish, one car aquaplains off and they stop the race which rarely happened when we had 2 tyre suppliers that actually tried to make a good wet weather tyre.
For people stuck on how ugly: Understand these are going to be used only during very wet situations and with all the spray and mist, you wont even be able to see them.
Or just let them race in all conditions like we used to ? I still don't understand why Pirelli even bother making Wet Tires when we never see them race..
1: they're only gonna be there on wet races 2: they will make racing in the rain better (hopefully) 3: who the fuck will notice wheel covers in the pouring rain when leclerc dives down the inside of verstappen for the lead of the race They're ugly but if they're functional they could paint those fuckers bright green and I wouldn't care.
It's an interesting engineering problem. Aero/tyres that chuck the air up, but keep the water down. For rain conditions, perhaps a mesh or curtain on the back end that lets air through, but mitigates the tyre spray?
