Why This Window Heat Pump Is Genius 

I don't understand I have a Midea heat pump window unit I got it at Costco on sale for $275 as energy star rating what's 18 k air conditioner heat pump with seer rating 15 3,000 seems a little steep

​@kurtzxcvb3481 the energy star rating is not what you're paying for. You are paying for the heat pump, which is not only A/C but also a Heater and a super efficient one at that.

For an individual renter in a building with centralized heating, this doesn't make sense at all. If your heat pump has no connection to the central heating system, the temp in your spaces is still still going to be at the mercy of the main heat source. At best, this would allow you to warm a room that's always too cold in the winter. And for the price of two or three of these units I could add a mini-split to my house, get better results, and not have something hanging off my windows.

While this is an option for vertically hung windows, they probably aren't compatible with sliding, casement or awning style windows, which will reduce viable applications in newer units.

For 2 to 3k? No. I live in Florida so heat is of very little concern, and what little it is I have computers that heat rooms up just fine. Not worth it till they com down in price by a lot.

We need more companies making these units to get price competition.

I agree. I put a 24k btu mini split in my shop and it was under $2k so this seems way high.

It is, the markup for installation is ridiculous. I am very handy and installed a universal for 4 grand including all the ductwork and it works wonderfully and is code compliant..

What's even crazier is that Midea already sells a window unit heat pump, 8000 BTU (MAW08HV1CWT) for $380 and 12000 (MAW12HV1CWT) BTU for $500 on amazon. It doesn't make any sense for them to introduce a $3k unit. Whole house 2-3 ton central systems sell for $3k. Anyone with sales or marketing experience could tell you a window unit at that price point is going to be a failure. At this point Matt is just a shill for these companies. He's knowingly pumping products that don't make any financial sense or he lacks any financial sense and thinks these are good ideas.

@@SnappyWasHerewhat brand did you go with? DIY?

I have this model, and I love it. It's so quiet. But yeah, I'd never pay three grand for a portable unit like that. Of course, I have also never lived in an area that snows, so I don't know how much I would value my heat at. We just have deathly hot weather and comfortable temps in the winter.

I have a 12000 BTU Midea that has a heat pump in it. Maybe $600 a couple of years ago. It won't heat below 40°F but okay.

I just installed one of those Midea U-Shaped ACs. About $450.00 delivered. At over 6X that price, this is just price gouging. Probably because NYC is paying for it.

- This is just window-mounted AC with 3-way valve added. - Don't you see a fancy indentation in the middle?

save yourself 2.5 grand and just turn the unit around in the winter

The other thing about steam in dense city environments is that it often comes "for free" (at least from an energy usage standpoint). The steam is often sourced from nearby power generators, were water was boiled to make steam to turn a turbine. They could just let that steam out into the atmosphere, or they could make use of it in places that need heat. So, it's piped into nearby buildings, and used to drive the heating systems.

That's because in Europe they have standards

In the winter time when it's -10F, that outside evaporator is going to be probably close to -30F and it's going to be collecting condensation (ice) and you'll need resistive heat to melt that off. Then because it's an inverse U shape, in the summertime, you're going to need to pump the condensation up the front and back to the condenser. Then you have the humidifier setting when in heat mode. And all of these needs to operate at 1500 watts or less. All of these extra solutions need more parts which adds more complexity and requires more sensors and software to control them. Then all of it needs to be tested to withstand the elements. A heat pump is not just an AC that runs in reverse, I wish these youtubers would stop that meme. An AC with just a reversing valve would be a pretty shitty heat pump that would not work in many conditions.

For $500-$800 you can get a typical air source heat pump (ASHP) and it will probably have more power than these.

Absolutely, and “tax breaks” are disgusting. They don’t fix the problem, they just pass it on to someone else.

or you know, just flip your window ac backward during winter. all ac are heat pump by default.

@@keenheat3335 that won't necessarily work depending on the efficiency rating and refrigerant used. also most cheap ACs are designed to tilt back a little so condensation drips out the back.

This. $3k USD for these units is insane when, as you said, a mini split is less expensive. I believe you can get a 4 room mini split for around $3-5k before rebates and if esthetics of the building are important, I'd rather see a few ground base heat pumps (which you can easily hide) vs multiple units hanging off the front of the building. My other thought is AC units at around $300 have thermostats so they're better than the $150 units which just cycle the pump when cooling is needed. AKA they run constantly. While they have the benefit of also efficiently heating, as Matt said, most renters have heating baked into their rental agreements. $1500-2k before rebates. Still more expensive than a 2 room mini however, the convenience and ability to pretty much place it anywhere you have an outlet, justifies the cost. But not $3k lol

@@shawnduffy279 This is what happens when factories for the AC-as-a-brick have been set up and paid for by private entities, then refuse to adapt to new available technologies without their "friends" in government bribing them to ship in that new tech. This is the kind of BS that the first hippies responded to with "never trust anyone over 40".

Yes, my Tokyo apartment had 1 in the bedroom and a larger unit in the living room. Quiet, efficient and not so expensive. Not to mention almost every apartment in Japan has a washing machine...

Can you provide a source for oyur claim that the heat pumps are actually doing heating? From everything i can find the majority of the acs in japan have resistant heating included, but not actually heat pump heating anywhere below 10 degrees C. Which would also explain some of the price disparity, as it requires different and more expensive tech and coolants for near or subzero heat pumping.

@@reappermen It's in the video.

Maybe for $600 at the most like damn

You are paying the "American's think heat pumps are magic new futuristic technology" tax. In Australia something like this is readily available for about $320 USD and has been readily available for over 50 years. I hear of people in North America and Europe getting heat pump air conditioners installed and paying $10k $20k $30k $40k USD and am completely astounded, your installers are absolutely taking the piss. I installed a whole-of-house ducted air conditioner in my house AND 3 mini splits (26kW or 90,000 BTU) all for just over $10,000 USD.

Midea already manufactures and sells two models at 8000 and 12000 BTU for $350 and $500 respectively, there is no way a 20,000 BTU unit should cost over $1000. This price is only so high because the government bid request said "no more than $3000"

So a compressor lasts on average ten years. Not exactly disposable, but not a legacy system either. Seems a better compressor is all that's needed, not a ground up reengineering.

@thecocktailian2091 I don't disagree with you, but that 10 year figure you mention is because home appliance type things are intentionally designed to last 10 years, we probably have the capability already to make them last much longer, but we won't... because money... and throwing away 1, 20 ton chiller compressor every 10 years is not the same as throwing away hundreds of 9,000 btu compressors every 10 years.

You would be surprised just how much energy a lot of these systems save in 5-10 years, even if they're disposable they could still come out way ahead if they last 10 years. I agree that they *should* be serviceable though, and be built to last longer than 10 years, aiming for merely "less bad" isn't exactly a noble goal

Come on man, don't replace the brakes on that "clunker" get a whole new car! We already established new everything is better for the environment like 20 years ago.

@@thecocktailian2091 or just make them REPAIR FRIENDLY.

Few even have portable a/c and heat pumps. I had one, heat pump worked great thru winter, with the exception of the week we had in single digits. Heat pumps aren't too great once you start getting below 32F. A/c part of it though is another story. It's garbage, leaked out the bottom near electric cord. Getting ready to battle with the company for a refund.

yeah but landlords love to minimize costs and do as little as possible lol

Lol 1,500. Cracklist prices…

It's a scam for that price. A traditional window AC unit is already a "heat pump" pumping heat from indoors outside. All it takes is one little valve to let it run in the opposite direction to be what's commonly called a heat pump and now it's some magical overpriced device for thousands of dollars. There should be options all the way down to $200. It's not special.

1500 in arizona seems like some meth head doing it. Any legit person here in Missouri wants 3k for a mini split install. I did a lot of my own stuff and only had a tech come do the pipe connection and vaccuuming the lines, and it ran me about 1500 just for that.

Traditional style window AC units are available in reverse cycle (heat pump) form and some also allow a little transfer of fresh and stale air between indoors and outdoors so are MUCH healthier and oh yes cheaper

Those claim not to heat below 41F outside air temperature. My guess is that limitation comes from a combination of a different refrigerant and the lack of a defrost system.

@@nathanschley2088 That still doesn't explain the 8x to 10x pricepoint lol.

The 350$ AC you are referring to literally has zero efficiency as you need to cool the evaporator by dumping cold air from the inside to the outside using an air hose. Effectively creating a (tiny) vacuum inside which draws in warm / humid air from all other rooms / outside. Effectively heating up your room even more due to heat radiation from the hose / casing of such ACs. These things are only good for cooling if you sit in front of the airstream. They are cheap because they are very very inefficient. The new ACs seen in this video solve this issue as there is no breach of isolation between inside and outside. Additionally you are re-circulating the already cooled air inside and cool it even more which has a cooling curve similar to an exponential decay.

It's the Apple of heat pumps. Just convince enough people to ignore other options and they'll make money.

I don’t think this is mini split technology

Any reference for this information?

I believe that range is just to maintain the stated efficiency rating, not that it won't work. Plus in context it makes sense, NY doesn't have a climate that gets above that point often if at all.

hell I have a 12,000 btu mexico whirlpool mini split it was $900 "INSTALLED"

Largwr ones cant heat in freezing weather without a standard heater. This guy always ahowcases bs tech

@jhoughjr1 my larger unit heats just fine in freezing weather I've been as far as 40° below freezing and it still worked although once you get below 10° f it becomes less efficient but it still heats and there's no auxiliary heater

Extra wide is fine tho you can put insulation or even put two of these units to fill the gap. The advantage these have is they make a smaller opening to fill with insulation than your average window unit

I lived in NYC apartments for over 40 years. Yes, some windows have radiators in front of them, but most do not. Not everything will work everywhere. Extra wide windows aren't a problem. There are many ways to fill the gap.

I believe they make reverse U versions that can be used in this situation, However it will block much of the window.

The 350$ AC you are referring to literally has zero efficiency as you need to cool the evaporator by dumping cold air from the inside to the outside using an air hose. Effectively creating a (tiny) vacuum inside which draws in warm / humid air from all other rooms / outside. Effectively heating up your room even more due to heat radiation from the hose / casing of such ACs. These things are only good for cooling if you sit in front of the airstream. They are cheap because they are very very inefficient. The new ACs seen in this video solve this issue as there is no breach of isolation between inside and outside. Additionally you are re-circulating the already cooled air inside and cool it even more which has a cooling curve similar to an exponential decay.

The government makes a problem, and the private section has to find a fix, making everything more expensive. Thank you, government, for being the biggest waste of money known to man.

There are some that only require You to Drill at twelve centimeter hole

You also have to have nothing below the window, my road in the UK has all slide-up (sash) windows but also a small roof just below the window that would prevent you installing this design.

It’s called a mini split unit

They are called double-hung windows. And they are pretty neat IMO. You can slide up or you can push the outside screen to the top and slide them down instead. Having the window cracked at the top is nice if you have shades that can open just at the top, if you want a window to let warmer air out while a window fan blows in from another window, or you don't want a toddler putting their fingers in the dirty sill.

Yeah, double hung windows are pretty neat, and they also don't require any space inside or outside the window plane for opening which can be quite helpful. They're only common in certain pockets though; more of the homes I've lived in (both apartments & houses) have had casement windows than double hung.

The situation in Tokyo is a bit different than here in the US. Many of the buildings in the US are older stock, and there is much more demand here for older homes with 'character'. The notion of a home with character is not very common in the urban areas of Japan. An older home in Japan is more likely to be considered cause for either a complete demo and rebuild, or at least a gut and remodel. Those details make the standardization needed much more likely there.

Well when you tear down and rebuilt homes every ~20 years, it's a lot easier to keep up with technology. I'm in a house that's over 70 years old.

Installing a heat pump takes a couple of hours and can be installed in any kind of house. The age of your house is irrelevant.

Can you link some photos or videos of the standardized ducts and electrical supply?

@@Loreroth The discussion here was more about apartments, though, which complicates installation significantly. Many buildings don't allow installation of anything on the facade, which rules out a split system unless the building isn't too tall to have the outside units on the roof. Once above a certain building height, the refrigerant runs become impractical, plus of course you're going to run out of roof space.

I just bought a regular Midea window unit with a heat pump for $350. It's an 8,000 btu A/C, with 7,000 btu heat @ 120V. You can also get it in 12,000 BTU. I think someone is trying to sell a bill of goods here.

I bought two for my house and after a year one stopped cooling very well and the other one was making an annoying noise. So, year three on my house I ended up installing an air source heat pump, because my furnace needed replaced. In the second year I tried to get my units serviced, but the product was out of warranty, and there was no one in my city that serviced Midea. They are quieter than a normal AC and when they work they are great. When compared to a standard old-fashioned window AC these units are more fragile. Unless the heat pump version had a great warranty, I would be leery of these upcoming products. There might be more value in repairing them and you would also not be taking them in and out in the same fashion as an AC. Another consideration is can these be installed where you have a roof outside the window. We had to install the brace upside down on one unit to get it to rest at a slight angle for water to properly drain, the upright U worked in this case, but I am not sure the upside down one would work in my upstairs windows with the porch roof so near the window.

@@Sleepingvampires What noise were you dealing with? My Midea 8K BTU unit is around three years old, and it has always had a bit of a rattling problem that crops up ever so often. When it does rattle, I've noticed that simply pushing up on the bottom of the inside portion of the unit stops the rattling noise. Fortunately, since I started using extra window locks to push down the window onto the unit (the unit doesn't perfectly fit into my window), I rarely have issues with the rattling. Although, it does have a habit of getting louder (fan noise) when it's nearly done cooling. I use it in a computer room due to having two computers in there that can generate plenty of heat.

Casement window AC units work in windows that open sideways.

​@@bobbygetsbanned6049 Yeah but they're not maximum efficiency heat pumps and don't allow you to almost entirely close the window. They're just a **tad** narrower than normal window a/c units. You still have to fill a decent gap and your window is now effectively much smaller. My condo HOA may still say no because they don't want stuff hanging out above garages (window a/c's are currently banned), but I would absolutely pay around 2k for a casement window heat pump that allowed the window to shut 95% (if it was allowed). Our bedrooms with casement windows are the only rooms that get hot. The rest of the condo which has hung windows doesn't even need cooling most of the time and it's half a floor downstairs from the bedrooms so the cool air wouldn't get up to the hot rooms if I put a unit there. So instead I have an annoyingly space inefficient portable inverter a/c, plus various fans upstairs. We have a condo unit to our left, right, and above, so no easy option to externally mount a classic heat pump mini split either.

Yeh so we can use them in Europe. Our windows don't slide open, they swivel open.

I haven't heard of the valves needing any maintenance. Even if they need a tiny bit of maintenance they are definitely the way to go for centrally steam/water heated buildings. The best part is that they offer proportional control instead of the on-off of a traditional thermostat.

@@eDoc2020 Any steam system is going to have increased erosion of the parts where there is turbulence and/or high flow rates. Control valves have both, so the valve and the valve seat erode over time and either need adjusting or replacement. The valves used in steam systems account for this and are either really overbuilt ball valves or carrot valves that need tightening periodically. Steam erodes metal and most materials as it flows through it, even steel. This is why boilers require a licensed boiler maker/operator to work on them and do checks on them along with regular inspection by the government. They will fail by leaking, then explode if you don't keep them repaired. This is also why steam pipes and valves get leaks over time and need expensive maintenance all the time in older buildings, with the system becoming more and more trashed as it gets older. The reason why the radiators don't wear out is because they are a part of the systems where the steam contracts and loses pressure as it cools on the cold surface of the radiator, so this protects them. Being made out of thick cast iron also gives them a lot to lose. I think it not being required by code is why the landlords aren't using them on the East coast. It could also be that they don't want the lines to the colder apartments to be failing sooner because of the heightened flow to them so they are running the same flow in the entire system. There is also the issue of how the system is plumbed/designed that having the variable valves on it they might need to run higher pressure to keep it from dipping too low when they are kicking on and off as demand happens to prevent the steam in the system from dropping pressure and changing from dry steam to wet steam or even condensing into water and then causing even more problems. I think this lower operating pressure in their system's design is what it limiting their use of the valves, but there is a work around on that, and that is to use electronically controlled valves at the radiators that are centrally controlled so a pressure drop never happens. You can have the valves be mesh networked over a type of industrial WiFi designed for this exact thing and get the power to run them off of a thermo-electric generator in the valve, so you wouldn't have to run wires. It is possible that wiring them might still be needed, but we are looking at low voltage CAT-6 with 24V AC on it for power then, which is easy to run.

@@KnightsWithoutATable I was thinking of water systems but I suppose you're right, most of these buildings are likely using steam.

You can get equivalent design AC only units for a fraction of that price.

For $3,000 it should come with a custom airbrushed design and also do my laundry. There is no reason it should be more than $500, they are milking free (taxpayer) government handouts.

Is it? This thing has to be constantly blowing air at leg height or child height. How is that comfortable or even tolerable? What about the noise level if this thing is going to be near a bed?

no it is not, nothing new in this design.

@@hrvojelasic5794These are the first ever units which combine the ease of a window mounted reverse cycle air conditioner with a split system reverse cycle air conditioner. They simply take a 1980s window mounted reverse air con unit and split it into two sections (like a split system reverse cycle air conditioner of the 1990s) but putting the compressor outside and the fan unit inside, making them quieter inside the house. That is, by definition, a revolutionary design.

That’s the problem with so many of these devices, the cost should be at or less than the more complicated legacy devices. These new heat pumps are very simple and you would hope the costs come down dramatically over the next few years and we can get one for a few hundred bucks from a Home Depot.

Then let the people with enough money adopt the product, wait a year or two and see if the prices go down and buy the product at a reduced cost. Planning ahead is the way of life.

This is a big problem but the only real solution is to bring more of them to the market.

Granted, to get onboard is expensive, but the heat pump side of this would likely save $200/$500 per year in areas where winter heating is required. Not enough to initially justify the current purchase price, but if that price comes down to about $2000, the overall cost is a net save.

Completely missing the point, but keep scoring troll points.

Could you account for the cost of rebuilding the sliding window into the cost of operating the heat pump? Also, is it worth the sliding window with a more insulated window? 🤔🤔

Use a mini split unit it’s this but you drill a hole instead of using a window

@@bob_mosavo As Matt says, the one down side of these types of technologies is the high up-front cost and the amount of years they take to recoup that initial investment. Having to replace otherwise fine windows (I assume they aren't single pane windows from 1932), just adds to that upfront cost and takes longer to see a return on investment.

I'm sure that Germans with come up with something fairly soon. For now, I use a vertical adapter with a hose connected to the mobile heat pump. It's not perfect, but it works.

@@bob_mosavo you can't replace the window if you are in a rental

They ARE ugly. Why not an HOA Kevin?

@@mustelina Thanks for snitching out on yourself, have a good day. 👋

Don’t understand your point but you seem pretty hostile.

it is very old, recycled tech. Noisy.

Umm you most certainly do not need a professional to install a mini split. Tons of women online doing it start to finish... They are marketed as easy instal..... Maybe a electrical outlet needs professionally installed at most. Did you forget these window units cost 3 times as much as a split unit or even a full unit? Not worth it at all until they come down in price.

My windows open horizontally

​@@cmo5807in an apartment in NYC...lol.

Yeah, the cost is a tough pill to swallow, but I’ve talked to a few people since the video came out and it’s more complex than just adding a reversing valve. There’s a bunch of things in the design that require more complex engineering and parts. It’s also a low number manufacturing run being a new product, which jacks costs up too. I would hope that if this catches on we’ll see a price drop with larger volumes.

Comparing cost is going to differ dramatically by region but even the idea that something that is 2-3x more efficient might be more expensive to run highlights the degree we subsidize fossil fuels and ignore the cost of externalities.

Indeed. For now, gas has been so much cheaper than electricity that electric heat is never going to be a money saver, regardless of COP.

​@@stevensmith4099 I don't disagree and it's not something we can just gloss over.

Thats not true in the northwest. Our electric is cheap and natural gas is very expensive. Complete oposite of northeast. ​@MrMadsci7

@@valleyofiron125 And I truly hope it stays that way for you. We’ll see what moves in to replace the hydropower going offline.

Or you could just demand clean electricity. 🤷‍♂️

Not Exactly. Natural gas power plants run around 40-60% efficiency. Transmission loss over the grid is around 5%. Some heat pumps get as high as 500% efficiency (closer to 250% in sub zero temperature) So .5 * .95 * (2.5:5) = 1.188 : 2.375. So most heat pumps are far more efficient than just burning natural gas in your home. This is why heat pumps are almost always better unless you are consistently seeing sub zero temperatures, like in Alaska or North Dakota.

@@serversurfer6169why don’t you?

@@MrMadsci7 I do. Please join me, if you haven’t already. ✊

@@matthewjohnson3656 agree in total ...if within scop 5 or better (5kw+ heat for 1 kw electricity= there are no more further calculations required if it makes sense or not, it does, even viable solar offgrid friendly nowadays!!! but still 3K$ or more is a dealbreaker 1 in each room when having each one implemented though...

Thanks, Ricky. We couldn’t find out a lot of details as to why they’re so pricey. I have my hunch, but that’s all it is. I’m assuming it’s partially because it’s new and will drop as they scale up production. But I also suspect, as many people are commenting, that it’s the government subsidized project that laid out the requirements and price target. A little of column A and a little of column B?

I mean an regular AC unit is a heat pump too so we had heat pumps like 100 years ago.

Of course he does, this is an advertorial. ;)

Thats his schtick. He seels vapor

Thats all this guy does is hype up crap that never goes anywhwrw

But let's add E.V. to the grid in the meantime. Makes sense.

The concern is that we're replacing fossil fuel heating with electricity, but it will be a mix of that and replacing resistance heating. But regardless it's a non-issue. We aren't going to roll it out all at once and grid upgrades are happening all the time with this planning in mind. It's nothing new.

I think many buildings have the central heat and many residents have window ACs. But the heating is at low efficiency. Imagine 1,000,000 BTUs of fuel is burned in a boiler room to heat a building in the winter. Now, with everyone having heat pumps, it would take only 400,000 BTUs to heat. But, it does use electricity instead of natural gas or oil, so the grid does get strained more. Overall, less energy used though.

​@@rclewis01This^ It's more efficient energy, but MORE total electricity usage overall. Yes, some will be converting from shitty window a/c to heat pump (which will actually use less electricity), but many will be converting from natural gas as well.

minisplit works. i also can't believe I'm saying this, but it may also be cheaper lol. those upside-down window-hanging units are an absolute ripoff.

You can get both traditional and upright oriented reverse cycle (heat pump) window air conditioner units for those windows but some transfer of fresh air is also important health wise and not all necessarily do it

Yes and the 8k BTU version is only $380, yet they want $3k for the inverted U with heat pump. Totally ridiculous price.

In Chicago only the Medea pump would be adequate although a new version that could do better at the low end of temperature would really cut it. Chicago can be much colder than NYC in a seriously cold winter, its more serious. Chicago has a lot of old brownstones like NYC I hope they make a Chicago version of the a Midea unit.

My power is a bit cheaper but that is close to what I pay for 1 therm of natural gas. Which is 30x better than a COP of 1 electric system that Matt is always implying. Doing the math an old trash tier 50% efficient gas furnace at $0.30/therm has a cost of $0.60 per useful therm. That is still less cost to run than a heat pump with a COP of 5 and power at $0.15/kwh ( 1/5 * .15 * 29.3 = $0.90 / useful therm). The reality is that most of these heat pumps start to fall way short of a COP of 3 when temps get even remotely close to winter temps in my region and a decent gas furnace is 90-95% efficient.

27 cents per KWH ? My rate is 9.3 cents per kwh .. from my pov almost 30 cents per kwh is a bit too much..

@@kennyiglesias622 Upper Peninsula Power Company. Basically the only provider and they don't even make enough of their own power all of the time they have to import from Wisconsin sometimes. It's what's making buying a used EV not even worth it, until I can figure out more solar. Just put up a 3-4kWh array and that's offsetting a lot of our home loads... should pay for itself in 3-5 years.

@@kennyiglesias622 30 is close to the highest in the US. Your price is about the lowest. Most are in the 10-15 range and all but a few are 20 or less.

Well ywah 50 percent more power will do 50 percent more work

just get minisplits instead. might even be cheaper.

@@snowballeffect7812 thanx! Unfortunately, I live in a rented flat. Something that I could take with me when I move would be perfect.

@@mael1515 ah, i guess convincing the landlord would be out of the question? lol. some places have subsidies/rebates so might still be a good long-term investment for them. I suppose it's a growing problem now in Europe since AC wasn't really a requirement before climate change made things a bit off kilter.

@@snowballeffect7812 my landlord is actually pretty amazing, but the central gas burner is only a few years old, so replacing it is something that I don't even have to ask for.

@@mael1515 nice!

lol yeah, theoretically. I think the problem is the regular units won't be able to draw enough heat out of the winter air. minsplit units can, probably because of more efficient design and different refrigerant.

A heat pump is just an air conditioner running backwards, so there is no reason for one to be much more expensive than the other. Indeed, most $150 AC units can both heat and cool as far as I know.

@@thorvaldspear almost NONE can. in fact I am only aware of a single unit that can and its only good down to 41'f and is $379. otherwise "NO" window units I am aware of work as heat pumps. many have HEAT but its "NOT" a heat pump. its a resistance heater built into the unit meaning zero efficiency difference than plugging in a space heater.

That would work to a point, maybe down to 40f, after that a crank case heater, head pressure control and delay on break timer are needed.

Because it needs a reservoir of heat to pump. Not much hear outside in the winter. Thays why they usually use a large tube undergroind to pull heat from. In my xp they arent dit for purpose.

If you install it yourself a minisplit is going to be less money and work much better.

The mini split might also be easier to repair.

Or the right type of window.

@@MasterBlaster3545 Not applicaple for most european windows. (Except UK and around) Windows need to be of the "sliding" type. Windows around here open by rotating the windows around the vertical axis. You would need to redesign the entire window or put a slit below the window into the wall.

For low humidity climates like Arizona, an evaporative cooler pre-stage would get the job done nicely.

not really. arizona is dry. you need far less "cooling" than a new yorker needs. Most of the energy for cool is not actually going to cooling. its going to dehumidification. it actually does not take much energy to "cool" air. most of it goes to water removal. you already have air with no water in it. so you only need to cool it. these should work just fine in arizona. I live high altitude in new mexico (6800ft) it cost almost nothing to cool my home. it just does not take that much energy when the air is this dry. Heating is another issue though. double edge sword of high altitude. we see 10 below 0 here at times (though very rarely)

In sw MO our heat pump was inadequate. Froze in the winter and sweated in the summer

Yes, through the efforts off CCAN and others like it, you will be relegated to only using energy sources they approve of at a much higher cost.

You pay for gas by the therm. A COP of 1 takes about 30 kwh for 1 therm. So even if you have a good COP (say 3-5) and a therm of gas was twice as much as a kwh and the gas furnace wasn't that efficient it is still less money to run the gas. If they take natural gas away, wood furnace or propane is still cheaper.

Looks great Sounds even better But the $3,000 mark is a little bit over the top

​@@barongerhardt Right, 1 therm is about 29.3 kWh. But where I live, electricity is about 3x the cost of gas per kWh, and a COP of 3.0 is really optimistic for a reversible air source heat pump in cold weather. Remember, these machines lose efficiency AND heating capacity as the outside temperature gets lower. I have a (partial-home) mini-split heat pump rated to continue functioning down to -13F, but it's cheaper to use my ancient gas boiler below about 30F, and the heat pump has trouble actually keeping the first floor warm below 20F. I know, "old home problems", but until I can get a major insulation upgrade that's how the math works. On top of that, a dedicated heater system can distribute the heat better than a system that has to do both heating and cooling. The thermal gradients in my home are greater when using the min-split heat pump than when using the boiler distributed through hot water baseboards. Still, for keeping warm in spring and autumn the heat pump is great. It's a backup for if the boiler kicks the bucket, and it diversifies my heating energy sources in case the price of methane spikes.

Yeah. Comparing thermal efficiency across fuel sources isn't really useful. There's an argument to be made that the government's role is to internalize externalities, meaning they should price the climate costs of using natural gas into its rate, and that might even out the cost. Comparing efficiency is useless unless the waste heat not utilized is problematic.

There's always a point of diminishing returns. If you're building a house and spend an extra $100K to make it super energy efficient, it's going to take a century of -$200 on your electricity bill to break even.

You saving around 500 usd each year to run it so 2 year paid the same just most dont have initial outlay

@@WayneJohnsonZastil no your not. his split is nearly as efficient as these new units. almost NO savings compared to each other. this ia a $900 split unit in a $3000 fancy lets sponge the government package. my 12k btu split is a mexico whirlpool unit and cost me $900 INSTALLED.

Ok

If yours offers better heat output at the same outside temperatures it probably has greater electrical requirements. If you need a 240v outlet or a dedicated circuit it's not a fair comparison. Having said all that, $3000 is unreasonably expensive. $1500 is more reasonable and still double what a similar performing mini-split costs.

Well not necessarily. A long enough coil of copper tube can easily bend 90 degrees without any damage.

@michaelbuckers while you're right, that may be possible, copper isn't cheap so it's very doubtful that's the route they took. I watched the part of the video again where they show the internals being assembled, but you can't see the top where this would be, so you can't tell from the video.

Excellent point for investigation.

At $2-3k per unit, I think they’re probably using all copper inside. Maybe they will be using rubber if the price is that of a window A/C unit ($150.00). But they can’t justify $2-3k pricing and skimp on the internals.

Some of this type of unit use a coolant rather than refrigerant to bring the heat inside (or outside). This requires a few more parts (which could explain some of the price) but keeping all the refrigerant outside has some huge benefits. In addition to easy flex joints it lets them safely use more dangerous refrigerants which are often more efficient.

Seals are mostly rubber, so it won't matter, rubebr doesn't get soaked. Also; to refer to your car analogy; take a look at motorcycle, most modern ones have usd (up side down) forks, but those didn't come around until the early 90's/late 80's, and most old motorcycle forks from before then still work fine without any repairs. P.s. it's also covered from the sun, so the rubber won't degrade as quickly

With a heat pump onboard, the struts get used 1 time?

The struts won't get used very much so likely not an issue. I mean how often are you going to be using them? Once a year for maintenance?

They might be upside down but the aren’t even vital to the function of the unit and it’s just a render of what it might look like. Every chance they don’t even contain struts when the actual unit is delivered.

Undoubtedly if they succeed in NA, then Europe would quickly follow with their own version. Kind of back to the 120/ vs 240 thing.

Honestly it’s called a mini split unit. 😂😂😂 it’s cheeper and permanently installed

@@thecocktailian2091 When did EU follow the US with the 120V main powerline voltage? Everyone uses 240V in the EU.

you don't this is quite literally "NOT DESIGNED" for you. these are specifically designed not even for the US. they are designed for these east coast programs specifically.

​@@PlayingwithproxiesThing is I don't want to permanently install it when I only need it 5 days/year. This is a great thing. They just need to make one that slides in between a European sliding terrace door for 600€

The thermostat and moisture drains would be on the wrong side.

@@JohnClarkW but..... would that work? how well? you can move the thermo and drain. I honestly wonder if that could work at all. I bet theres a wee bit more to it than that.

@@nerys71 I have no idea, but I think it is harder than I think.

The sizing of the condenser and evaporator coils will be totally wrong. If you’re lucky, it will still run, just very poorly. I would guess that it would end up feeding liquid into the compressor and letting the magic smoke out.

Nope. How much heat is outside in the air in winter?

What kind of windows do other countries use?

@@BitterTast3 Snooty ones, apparently.

@@BitterTast3 Germany has windows with a lever that switches them between 3 states: swinging open horizontally, opening about 30 degrees vertically and closed.

It's what happens when fossil fuel corporations purchase your government, everytime. 🤦‍♀️🤦🏿‍♂️

Well, in America we have cheaper energy and a ton of natural gas. It slowed adoption of heat pumps because they didn’t make economic sense here. My electricity is 12 cents/khw and it is about 25 cents in London. That difference is even more for natural gas. That leads to different choices.

It must be nice having such a tiny unpopulated country that getting the masses to work together on a short time frame is a reasonable ask. Once you hit 50 million people things start getting more challenging. And with how mild and uniform your climate is the same technology would work in every house. I'm in Ohio and our temperature varies by over 100 degrees throughout the year, and Ohio is mild by Midwesterner standards. And that's just one region. The coldest Alaska gets compared to the hottest Death Valley gets and it's closer to a 200 degree variation annually.

@@jypsridic "mild and uniform"? You are aware that the entirety of Sweden is located more north than Edmonton, right? Southern Sweden swings between around zero F in winter and a hundred in summer nowadays, and the northern parts -30 to plus 70-80 is no surprise nowadays.

​@@SeanButlerATLit's still a matter of prioritizing. Your government could've opted for increasing fossil energy prices via taxes (like ours does on fuel) and incentivising green solutions like this. Where time and money is spent boils down to priorities.