Because the seperatists needed an enforcer someone who arguably also has a lot of war experience before the clone wars.They also needed a fear monger to the public to make the seperatists look even more threatening for the war to be justified.
IMO, another good candidate for Supreme Commander was Alto Stratus. He was brilliant tactician, he won the hearts and minds of his people and wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty. Hell, he fought against Jedi Generals with a regular sword. Not even a vibroblade!
Yeah but a nationalist identity wouldn't have worked well for their long term plans. Grievous didn't give two shits about the Confederacy of Independent Systems, in fact he distinctly hated it, he just considered it a means to an end which is what made him perfect for the job. Once the Confederacy had outlived its usefulness he would've been happy to watch it crumble. Alto probably would've been far less likely to go along with that.
Not to mention that his Nimbus Commandos were one of the few units the Separatists had on par in skill with Clone Commandos. They were foot soldiers but managed to bring down first-generation AT-AT walkers on their homeworld during the war. Stratus himself not only fought a Jedi General with a regular sword but also killed her; then was defeated by her Padawan, but still.
The Sith needed someone the republic feared and hated and who hated the jedi enough to follow their plan. Alto Stratus being loved by his men is rather a disadvantage regarding the Sith and their grand plan.
Apart from the CIS were never meant to win the war, nor did they want someone either to humanise the CIS movement nor that even CIS worlds themselves liked By making Grievous a monster, Shiev could propagandise his death and slaughter
General grievous is still on the top of my favorite characters list for Star Wars and it never get old hearing you talk about him. Great work as always
Same I've always loved his character. Maul is my favorite but grev always been up there. I just wish we could explore his warrior past a bit more I felt like they could never agree on him in the movies and shows if he's supposed to be a badass Jedi slayer or if he's just this bumbling droid leader always falling short of victory because he's just not smart or strong enough 🤦🏻♂️ I wish they'd focused more on making him just an unstoppable killing machine with very little other emotions. Then his downfall could be more based from his propensity for battle. He fails because a true warrior has no place as a leader. A warrior cares not about victory overall and not about self preservation. A warrior who cares about finding the one opponent who can best them. Make him just a bit too focused on killing Jedi and that costs him some tactical victories the overall hurt their efforts in the war.. for example maybe he fucks up by refusing to recall his troops and instead pursuing a fight against a powerful Jedi. In the end he wins his trophy but he loses his units and the count is pissed AF lol. A true warrior like him would be so caviler with droid lives he'd be far too willing to sacrifice them for his own glory in battle. In my opinion a real warrior is without the kind of lack of integrity that wins a war like that. You can't fight a galactic droid war with honor. You're already using technology as soldiers and your superior production skills to keep control of the conflict. Only a truly heartless cold calculating commander could use this to it's full potential. You have a near infinite army of heartless killing bots that don't question orders or morality. To command them like such is to arrive at the fullest potential. A commander and army devoid of feelings would be the ultimate military. Not afraid to loose tactically when needed. Not afraid of dishonor or sacrificing troops or sacrificing a victory. A fully connected hive mind military with only the overall goal in mind. It doesn't matter what it takes as long as in the end victory is achieved within the laid out goal. Ultimately it held back the droid army having living beings in command. Especially when we're talking about people like grievous and ventres and even maul. They're all warriors who allow their emotions to effect their decisions. Evil and ruthless yes but not emotionless. A warrior is different from a great soldier. A soldier follows orders. A warrior cares only about glory through adversity. Willing to risk it all for the glory of a victory of a worthy opponent..
I would love to see that Durge and Assaj VS Grievous fight in an animated form. Perhaps in the 2D cartoon style where all 3 are featured so iconically.
I agree. Durge, Asajj, and Grievous are friggin beasts in the 2D series. In 3D, Durge just doesn't exist and Asajj, although got a good redemption arc, was kinda weak, and same with Grievous, although him slaughtering the Night sisters does make up for it.
It made sense in the OG cartoon but the current cannon the best thing I can think of is that he looks scary abd is just competent enough to not seem like he was set up to fail
I think people are too hard on Lucas, but his decision to make Grevious into coward was the wrong direction to take. Even toddler Ahsoka wasn't even scared of him. Even the inferior Rebels shows had more threatening villains with the Grand Inquisitor, Vader, and Thawn.
I heard a theory that the real greivous was too competent so dooku and palps stuffed him in storage somewhere and found a suitably incompetent replacement lookalike possibly brainwashed to be greivous. The other theory is similarly dooku deliberately hamstrung Greivous and gave him impossible missions and incompetent subordinates not to mention the military structure of thr CIS was a mess from start to finish. Take your pick which I lean towards a combination of all 3
@@badluck5647 Dude, are you seriously comparing that kiddie show to The Clone Wars? Vader failed at stopping f*cking Ezra Bridger and Kanan! Where Grievous is able to hold his own against the entire clone army and war hardened jedi masters, Vader, the Grand Inquisitor and Co failed at stopping a tiny rebel group despite having the entire Imperial might at their disposal. The rebels villains are nothing but pathetic.
0:34 Best-Portrait-Ever. Also I would possibly give Admiral Trench a chance, I would see him atleast train with using an electrostaff for combat purposes. But even tho Trench lacks close combat skills, he still has a formidable mind in the battlefront, making him a not so bad rival to Grievous...
@@lordgod9958 I say again from my primary statement, imagine Trench trained good, and I mean real good, with and electro staff in order for him to stand up almost perfectly against anyone with a lightsaber (of course there’s still the force but many other have stood up to that), I would think that Trench would have more of a competent chance than just strategizing the battles from a ship command deck>>>
So maul was the young acrobat Vader, and there is a shadow of anakin in episode one that fore shadows him looking like darth Vader walking away. Count dooku is Vader when he is old, slight movements, leader, and more powerful in the force. And grevious is the robotics embodied in Vader suit. There are actual several seasons in the prequals where the shadow of anakin is darth Vader. Episode one anakin walking away from his mother rhe casts a brief shadow on the wall. There is also one in episode 2 where anakin and padma are standing together and you can see the Vader as the shadow reaching out to her.
I suspect Grievouses mostly blunt and simplistic battle tactics were mostly a product of the days he spent fighting the Huk. By all accounts, and logic, it was a guerilla war campaign, and most likely remained as such even when they started their revenge offensive in space.
He beat both Durge and Ventris in single combat and he is neither a force user nor thousands of years old. That said, the reason he was a good choice for General was his history as a commander of the Kaleesh people.
@@Amadeus8484 Yes this is primarily the reason he wasn't much of a match for Kenobi and also wasn't as effective as he could have been in the clone wars.
@@Amadeus8484 Lucas quite clearly nerfed Darth Maul as well he took on both Obi Wan and Qui Gon Gin without breaking a sweat only to lose to Obi Wan because he didn't block or dodge an obvious counter attack?
It is at this point that the Sith Grand Plan is what truly started but also stopped Grievous from bringing the final blow that will force the Republic to comply to the Separatists demands. Also, if Sev'rance Tann did not die and remain the Supreme Commander of the Droids Army, how will this affect the war as a whole?
You know what kind of video I'd love to see? A ranking of who you believe are the top ten commanders/tacticians in Star Wars, whether they are Republic, Separatist, Imperial, Jedi, Sith, etc. I'm sure Grievous would place somewhere in there, alongside Thrawn and Anakin/Vader.
Some civilizations are just like that. Rome lasted about 1,000 years... 2,000 if we include the Eastern Roman Empire... But it also couldn't go more than 10 years without a civil war and politically was an absolute dumpster fire.
Because as much as it was weak, it was also strong. The people would keep reviving and rebuilding the Republic. I suppose the values of the Republic were strong enough to keep the Republic and it's allies stable and loyal.
Since we don’t know the full history of the republic for new cannon it’s hard to say. Legends cannon puts into questions how anything ever got done when at most they had 1,000 years of no galaxy wide war. Of course there was a number of smaller battles and conflicts happening all the time but nothing as big as the Sith war which was basically 7 wars on one planet
While I'd love to hear more about her, to me even just the concept of her character sounds like too much of a Thrawn fanfic. Like why does she have to be Chiss AND be doing the same thing as Thrawn. Like if we have to bring in another prominent Chiss to the Star Wars universe, spice it up from "very smart powerful general person" like if she's force sensitive she could have been more Ventress' style of character to contrast the character of Thrawn, not copy it outright
In the RoTS novelization, Grievous was basically (in Dooku’s eyes) the fall guy, so all the war crimes could be blamed on the inhuman cyborg run amok, while the honorable Dooku was powerless to stop him. As far as Sidious was concerned he was just an attack dog that would be put down after causing enough chaos
It also certainly helps that compared to a lot of separatist commanders Grievous was overkill and an absolute psychopath. Most separatist commanders would probably win a battle, take the spoils, and leave it at that. Grievous is the kind of general who after winning would carpet bomb an entire planet just for inconveniencing him... or carpet bomb a planet just because he felt like it... Anything resembling the proud warrior he once was had since been reduced to ashes by a sadist who wanted nothing more than to make his enemies suffer for his own amusement.
I disagree that Grievous is not on Thrawn's level. Sure there is a concensus that Thrawn is the very best when it comes to warfare, and I agree, but there are still those who could match him and Grievous is easily one of the few, along with Ackbar, Trench, Vader and some others you may name. Here are my arguments for Grievous: -Tasked with protecting the entire CIS council during the last stage of the war -Born in war and was immensely successful in leading his people against the Huk -Had barely any defeats (stated by Dooku) -Specifically picked as Supreme Commander by Sidious and Dooku for his success as a warlord -Operation Durge's lance -Kidnapping Palpatine (pretty much mission impossible if it wasn't for Sidious helping him out) -"He is the evil genius of the Confederacy. The architect of their victories. The author of their atrocities." (RotS novelization)
There is also the not too distant possibility that Grievous was tasked with defending the Separatist Council because he could and would also swiftly eliminate them - which Vader later ends up doing - once there was no more need for the Confederacy. That said, in the now Legends novel Outbound Flight, Thrawn used the en masse tactics of a droid force against it to defeat a Trade Federation fleet that included 2 Lucrehulk-class battleships, with only 3 light cruisers and a single fighter squadron through the means of advanced electronic warfare successfully deducing the weaknesses of the back then centrally controlled droid fighters. So if put against Grievous who mainly relied on overwhelming numbers, he would've still won through a similar pattern. To provide a historical comparison, if commanders like Grievous and Pong Krell led like Grant, Thrawn led like Napoleon--- who to this day remains the single most successful military leader of human history.
@@balintkovacs4089 Grievous would not eliminate the CIS council since he was loyal to the CIS cause. If Kenobi failed to kill Grievous, Vader would have to fight him on Mustafar. Grievous did not rely on overwhelming numbers, that's just a big part of how the droid army worked. In fact, his tactics would surprise the Republic because of how effectively he utilized his droids (battle of Hypori for instance), there are many different battle droid types for a reason. Thrawn would win like 6/10 times against Grievous. And comparing Krell to him is nonsense, the guy was not even loyal to the side he fought for.
@@bouncin2207 Your first point is void since the video itself states that Grievous held no love nor loyalty for the cause of the CIS and would've happily watched it burn with the rise of the Empire it if meant he got to kill more Jedi. Relying on overwhelming numbers and making efficient use of the various traits the different droid types had do not exclude one another. One could both capitalise on the overall superior numbers while retaining the tactical value of different units. Having a large force in itself only means you have more room for error and/casualties as they are easier to replace. Motivation aside, it is still fact that Krell and Grievous had a very similar tactical scale approach to most engagements, even if Grievous did do so as part of a more encompassing faction scale strategy. And both of them have a very different commanding style to Ulysses Grant, whose main pillar of tactical decisions was also his awareness of having more troops than the enemy. One thing that people often forget about Thrawn is that he shone the brightest when he had trusting and competent subordinates to work with. As such, being in the command of say, a Chiss fleet would easily tilt the odds in his favour in the decisive majority of cases. But even with a Republic fleet, he would construct his battle plans around unorthodox usage of his forces, against which the droid officers serving under Grievous would prove ineffective, and he isn't the type to personally take charge of every motion of every unit in a battle like Thrawn would-- hence my comparison of him to Napoleon, who also made a prominent point in personally overseeing as many aspects of his battles as possible.
@@balintkovacs4089 The video is wrong. Grievous hated the Jedi and the Republic, he joined the war to bring both of them down. I'm not saying he was some patriot or something and that he would give his life to protect the cause, but his goals aligned with the goals of the CIS, he would not betray them and he would definitely not fight for the Empire that would become even worse than the Republic.
The thing that makes all this moot is that the CIS was NEVER SUPPOSED TO WIN. It didnt matter who was in charge or what tactics they would've instituted.
I still feel that one of the biggest mistakes in Star Wars was making Grievous weaker. In the 2003 mini series, which was technically his first appearance, he was literally so strong and terrifying that his rank needed no justification💯
The most impressive thing about Grievous in my opinion is how calm an individual he was. (I am sure you are either confused or think I'm joking but hear me out.) Imagine being in his shoes: You can no longer feel the touch of another being, thus no chance of love, you cannot properly eat, sleep, or rest (most likely because you don't need to but that dose not mean it leaves you undamaged mentally), you cannot enjoy things like delicate food, tea or drinks, you are forced to put up with an annoying cough and the ONLY thing left for you to actually enjoy is to collect trophies from your enemy. (it is rather easily noticeable that he rarely had a sense of humor at all. Such a thing needs one to feel good for any reason and for him it would be because he is bound to get a new trophy.) All those things affect the mind a lot, and for those like myself that play RTS and have experienced even just one of the above have noticed that it highly affects performance. Now look at all the things Grievous did despite this to reform the CIS military as well as some of his more restrained tactics and will see what I meant when I said "calm".
So wait if Grevious represented the whole more machine then man aspect of Vader, what did the other two(Maul and Dooku) represent? Also, is that image at 5:12-5:18 fanmade? And if so was it made before or after the Padawan arc from Season 5 of the Clone Wars, because if before then that means some used that image as inspiration for Grevious using three blue blades and one green blade, instead of doing two and two.
Dooku was a pawn used as a means to an end by an uncaring master only to be discarded when he was no longer useful. Maul was a vicious killer driven by rage, so much that he refused to die even when bisected.
@@CollinMcLean maul was a slave to the dark side. A slave to his master, to his emotions, and to his ego. Dooku was a Jedi who became disillusioned from the Jedi and turned to the dark side. You said dooku was a slave to an uncaring master.. but that doesn't count as a dooku quality because both him and maul served an uncaring master: Palpatine. So many elements of maul, dooku and Grievous apply to Vader. If you put Grievous, Dooku, and Maul together you get Darth Vader.
@@theblasteffect4499that’s true, except I think that the three are all more flexible/ able to move faster than Vader. No offense to Vader, he could fast when he needed to be I guess.
My guess prior to watching: He was the perfect leader... for Palpatine’s goals. He was skilled and experienced enough as a commander as proven during his campaign’s during the Hux war, but there were better commanders than him, and his skill wasn’t why he was chosen. He was a propaganda tool, a war crime committing cyborg at the head of a droid army, and as a Jedi killer he made them seem weak, ineffective. He vilified the separatist movement while posing enough of a threat for Palpatine to further push for more emergency powers, exactly as planned.
Grievous would fit right in on the Soviet General Staff. Heavy use of misdirection, complex strategy but brutally simple at the tactical level, and refusing to reinforce failure. Traditions alive and well in the Russian Armed Forces. Notice they didn't throw good money after bad at Kiev or Kherson. I'm surprised they kept the gloves on as long as they did before crushing Ukraine's infrastructure in the last month or two.
If the Confederacy had actually wanted to prove itself to have the moral high ground in the Clone War. Merai would be someone that should have been given the title of the Supreme Commander of the Confederate Droid Military as she actually believed in the ideology of the Separatist cause (What Dooku espoused publicly) and saw the droids actually comrades in arms.
Palpatine needed a villain for the Republic to unite against. The Neimodians were schemers and corporate thieves, but their adorable faces made them hard to hate! ☠️
Would not have used him - but then again I'd fight to win if I were in the CIS (and knowing who and what Palps is and who Count Dooku is, I'd try to take him out, so that Sidious loses his direct connection into the CIS-Leadership!), so terror is useless (I am NOT Tarkin, damned!)...give me Admiral Trench and give HIM the Malevolence :)
Could be argued the retreat strat came from who was often commanding Republic forces.. jedi. Greivous's main strategy when dealing with Jedi was to overwhelm them with fear. A jedi (and in the case of leading actual armies were typically masters) once broken by fear were far easier targets. If the initial plan didnt work, the unbroken jedi would use literal magic and could devastate the CIS forces, so retreat and try again later.
I think it's always worth noting whenever discussing the Clone Wars, that the CIS was essentially a puppet of Sidious and the army was created to lose the war.
Its a shame Disney has a knack for making any antagonists into bumbling failures except for Rogue One. Wouldve been cool to see Grevious actually win a bit
No need for me to know more Grievous. All I want are videos about the lives and careers of Keyan Farlander, Maarek Stele, and Ace Azzameen. Also, Star Wars military operations with really cool names... and really bad ones.
Making Grievous supreme commander makes sense for the overall plan Palpatine set up. Make the enemy ferocious and viewed as evil to unify the Galaxy for the Empire's proposed peace. He was able to win campaigns but not the war which was part of the goal. The Separatists were meant to lose so why put the A+ person in who could win when the B person can achieve the goal.
8:58 Ok, I get that Grievous represents being more machine then man, and Count Dooku was a fallen Jedi, but what exactly is Maul's parellel to Vader. The only thing I can really think about is Maul being a killer, with Maul's murder of Qui-gon parelleing Vader's murder of Obi-Wan. Though I wouldn't say that is any more extreme than Vader's actions.
An impressive feat although it is debatable how wise it was to judge the abilities of the supreme commander of your army based on individual fighting ability rather than leadership skills. Which proved to be Grievous' biggest weakness when faced against more unorthodox commanders on the Republic side. He always wanted to get too personal in a battle; thus being easy to bait and outflank. To quote the Warhammer 40K meme "Drive the tank closer, I want to hit them with my sword".
Because the clone wars series, doesn't make the Grevious we should have got. We got a coward, when we should have got a brutal monster and who was to fast to keep up with even the ig100 guards seemed easy for obi Wan and anakin
my assumption: because he was scary nd the jedi hated him. This was had the sole purpose to destabilize the jedi order and make people of the republic yearn for safety and security. Grievous was a jedi killer. And being the direct target of the enemy militarized the order. The jedi might have become generals in the background. But Grievous wasnt just a ruthless tactician. He also was a capable fighter. And that forced the jedi to directly confront him. And every jedi lost to him grew their negative emotions towards him. Fear. Hate. Anger. To the general public he was terrifying. More machine than man. Sinister. Powerful enough to hunt the jedi. He scared them. And it drove them to palpatine. Dooku was the perfect figure to get the jedi involved in the war. And Grievous was the perfect figure to erode the order.
General Grievous beats Durge and Ventressus so bad that Durge needed a bacta Tank?! We talking Legends or Cannon Grievous. If its Cannon, I laugh at that, if its legends then makes more sense cause well. Legends Grievous would have trumped all the Cannon Clone Wars Jedi hands down. Cannon one, I just can't see it.
Palps contingency plan in case dooku beat anakin was to blame the brutality of the CIS on grievous, has dooku understood it, grievous was publicly the boogy man to the republic. Palps needed brutality
The Cartoon Network Clone Wars made Grevious into terrifying force of nature. It was disappointing the newer Clone Wars made him into a coward who couldn't even take on Skywalker's new padawan.
Although as far as space engagements go, there is the question of whether you need engage the Jedi personally if you're blowing up the spaceship they're aboard anyway?
personally i had a masive problem with grievous in teh show as they just made him week by loosing all the time. also he was a terable commander for battles because he was way too agressive. he was more of a hunter wanting to pick off his kills trapping them which just doesnt work in terms of a fleet. what they should have done was pair him with a admiral where grievous would go out on teh front lines leading the fighters. and the admiral commanding the fleet all propper tactically. like what they did on the republic side. you had anakin going out in his fighter and leading ground assults and yularen commanding the fleet
Can you do a video commenting your opnion about how Dave Filoni developed the Jedi in clone wars as an institution that made big mistakes and if that deviated from what George Lucas developed the jedi to symbolically represent in history? Do you think this "subversion" ended up working and giving the story the depth it needed? Do you think that George Lucas already raised this question, but didn't develop it in the story of the Prequels because that wasn't the focus of the plot?
Filoni and other genocide apologists in this fandom have come up with the idea that the Jedi, a 25,000 year old culture of people committed to education, defending others, and living selflessly "deserved" their extermination down to the last child for some fault in their belief system and/or not giving Anakin Skywalker whatever he wanted. Like people who think that if Jews decided to worship Jesus then the Holocaust wouldn't have happened. George Lucas has had 25 years to blame the Jedi for their own genocide. He has explicity refused to do so. The Prequels were about the Fall of Anakin Skywalker and the Rise of Palpatine. That is it. Unless you think the guys with superpowers and magic should have overruled the democracy they helped form?
A Force Sensitive female Chiss existing in the known Star wars Galaxy let alone being Supreme Commander (or equivalent) of the CIS reads too much like Thrawn fanfiction to be funny or believable
Grievous before he got majorly injured by Mace Windu was a truly terrifying force a master of stealth tactics as well as being supreme commander of a massive droid army he could also go toe to toe with multiple jedi after his major injury he was severely weakened having to rely more upon his massive droid armies than his actual combat skill. He could no longer go toe to toe with multiple jedi and had limited energy due to the injury.
