Imagine if someone developed a chemical or machine that broke down poison/cleaned the oceans and toxic atmosphere, making Atraken once again valuable. They’d be one of the richest beings in the galaxy over night.
Then they’d likely get targeted by the republic and confederacy both to be put to use making that formula. Knowing dooku, he’d probably use a middle man to lay waste to multiple republic worlds, and then sweep in to offer a way to fix their world in exchange for unwavering loyalty to the separatists
When you think about it, this technology could be useful for many poisoned, mined out worlds in the galaxy. And that world is still probably more habitable than Mars.
From my reading of Star Wars, almost every single battle should have been like Atraken. Because, unless you are willing to completely obliterate every structure on the planet, there are plenty of places for people to whole up and defend. And, since those are your taxpayers, you can't just murder all of them by blowing up their homes. As such, you have to take the planets the old fashioned way.
Logistics also fits into this. Canonically, the Star Wars Galaxy (SWG) is 120,000 light years in diameter and 1,000 light years thick. Now, based on looking at several maps, about half of that would be disputed during the Clone Wars between the Galactic Republic (GR) and the Confederacy of Independent Systems (CIS). As such, that puts a volume of roughly 5.6 trillion cubic light years in contention during the war. Given that the Outer Rim, an area roughly 50,000 light years from Coruscant in any given direction, is described as too far from the Senate for it to exercise authority, that would indicate that it takes longer than about 6 weeks for a ship to travel 50,000 light years from Coruscant. That puts the speed of travel at 434,828c. So, given the vast distances involved and relatively slow speed of travel, the length of time required to move forces from one location to another would result in plenty of time for hostile forces to dig in. As an example, Ryloth is located in the Outer Rim, about 60,000 light years from Coruscant "as the crow flies". Given the need to follow the Corellian Run the whole way, it's probably closer to 70,000 light years. As such, a courier would take almost two months (58.79 days) to reach Coruscant with news of the CIS invasion. It would then take time (likely at least a month, probably closer to three) to gather the necessary forces to respond. Here, I'm going to also add that population matters. The size of the SWG is matched in population, with Ryloth alone having a population of 1.5 billion. Given that US military studies have shown the need to have about 1 soldier for every 50 civilians in order to maintain order during an occupation, that is at least 30,000,000 battle droids on Ryloth. Given the need for at least 3 times that number to be dedicated to the offensive to retake Ryloth, that's 90,000,000 clone troopers, requiring 5,625 Acclamators. So, yeah, it's gonna take a while to gather that force. So, two months for the GR to learn of Ryloth's fall, three months to gather the necessary forces for a counter offensive, and another two months for travel back to Ryloth. That is 5 months in total, during which the CIS is establishing a blockade and digging in on the planet. In those five months, the droid army could feasibly build some VERY impressive fortifications, complete with a powerful air defense network, preventing direct assaults on the positions. Furthermore, the GRs need to retake the planet largely intact would force a conventional ground engagement, something true of many contested worlds. With 120,000,000 combatants dedicated to the campaign across a world about 83% the size of Earth, and given the very limited ability of the GAR to actually move troops (due to the limited numbers of gunships and armored vehicles assigned to GAR divisions) by anything other than marching, retaking Ryloth (or any planet) will be a lengthy slog, requiring at least several months and hundreds of thousands of casualties to accomplish. In the case of Ryloth, the GAR would suffer a minimum of 788,400 casualties and, more likely, 2,719,250 casualties (based on WW2 casualty rates for the US military in the European and Pacific theaters, respectively, chosen due to the extant influence of WW2 on Star Wars) during a year long campaign. And that is without considering the space battle or civilian casualties. Indeed, casualties are likely to be far higher, as the GAR will have to quite literally annihilate every single CIS position, as battle droids do not surrender. Extrapolate that out to hundreds of millions of worlds across the galaxy that will be turned into battlefields at one point or another and you find that the Clone Wars is, by necessity, a war that would make World War One look quite mobile.
@@nicholaswalsh4462 a courier wouldn't be necessary to inform Coruscant of a Seperatist invasion since we've seen countless times of people in the Core being able to have a hologram call with people in the Mid Rim with Palpatine being able to do that from Coruscant to Nabooand in general the Outer Rim too
Think about it. The Republic is unable to maintain any significant level of control over the Outer Rim, to the point where the people of Tatooine, which is a full sector CLOSER to Coruscant than Ryloth is and neighbors the rather significant factory world of Geonosis, and sits along the Triellus Trade Run, describe the situation as, "The Republic doesn't exist out here." How does that mesh with being able to have real-time conversations with people so far away? The solution that makes the most sense is that communcation takes a significant amount of time to get from one place to another.
I can agree with this. It shows at the end of the day, neither side wins a war. Plus it shows how far some are willing to go to achieve victory. Kind of reminds me of the Death Korps of Krieg from Warhammer 40k, because they willing turned their homeworld into a rotting, irritated husk of a planet to end a Civil War. Sometimes, you do have to step back and remember that there are no winning a war, only surviving it.
I know it's a futile effort, but what would happen if the Atraken survivors started their own Rebels-style guerilla war against the Separatists *and* the Republic? The standard "You killed my planet, so I'll slaughter *all* of you." revenge story.
Everything went according to the puppetmaster's plan. Darth Sidious was way too good at making people hate each other. Or maybe we are just too good at hating each other and he made the most of the opportunity...
The only objectives were for Palpatine to wear down the Jedi, and to leave the people of the Republic so shattered and weary of fighting that they wouldn't be able to fight against his Empire.
Thanks for going over these somewhat unknown battles that I and, probably, a few others never heard about. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, but there are bits of lore I never heard of or know about.
Palpatine truly was rotten to the core for orchestrating a war that led to sensless violence like this. All for an Empire that didn't even last three decades
Great video. Would love to see a comparison video or a list of other planets that suffered similar fates during major wars in the galaxy. For instance in legends Ruusan suffered greatly thanks to Kaan and Hoth both determined to wipe out the other at any cost
Hypori was absolute carnage. Now, yes, it has since become non-canon, technically. But it was factually when General Grievous debuted in any Lucasfilm/Lucasarts related media, in 2003. The entire Clone force sent to Hypori, most of the Jedi and a considerable number of the rescue mission from the ARC Troopers sent by General Kenobi, was lost. Everything possible went wrong. They ran into Hypori space right into orbital mines. Untold thousands perished in orbit, some assault ships were destroyed _in orbit_ outright, and what few remained _nosedived_ into Hypori's barren plains. Right on top of B2 Super Battle Droid factories; which spilled out their massive armies, led by General Grievous. It was a massacre. One of the absolutely most one-sided defeats ever for the Republic. Tens of thousands lost.
The Separatists and the Republic going to battle over a planet for its resources, having a devastating death toll, and then it being all for nothing in the end reminds a lot of the Battle on Jabiim in Legends and the death of the Padawan Pack. It would be awesome to see a video on them, if you ever have the time!
Can you do a video commenting your opnion about how Dave Filoni developed the Jedi in clone wars as an institution that made big mistakes and if that deviated from what George Lucas developed the jedi to symbolically represent in history? Do you think this "subversion" ended up working and giving the story the depth it needed? Do you think that George Lucas already raised this question, but didn't develop it in the story of the Prequels because that wasn't the focus of the plot?
@@tk-6967debatable. Most of the nuance did come in the form of the padme banking clan stuff but we know it was planned for the Jedi to say “ok, we need to fucking assassinate count Dooku”
@@tk-6967 have you not seen the story arc where Ahsoka leaves the order?! Or the arc where obi wan fakes his death?! Which resulted in anakins growing distrust in the order. Dave Filoni made them far from perfect
@@Eg0n97 But yet the jedi are always shown to be fairly competent in battles, the only clash with military commanders that happens is just Anakin and Ahsoka being rebellious, not the jedi being stupid. The Jedi are shown to see themselves more in a military light and are more of a 'let the police handle it' vibe when the actual problem was that they got too side-tracked at various points.
@@tk-6967 I mean the “source material” is clone wars and has been even before Disney because of how things work. Past that Dooku was also a racist and committed genocide and also can do that Sith power where your hate and anger incinerates people. Dooku was evil and to think otherwise is like saying the empire was unironically good
Yoda: Victory? Victory you say. Master Obi Wan, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun the Clone War has. Rush not into flights, long is the war, only by surviving it will you prevail. Wars not make one great. Always focused on the enemy are you, for inspiration, look to yourself and those beside you. Ti Wa Ka Lurmin people: Who cares who started the war and who wants to end it? No side is free, it takes two to fight. What is worth killing for? Fighting for something doesn't necessarily mean you have to destroy everything in your path. Only when you lay down your arms and pursue a corse of non violence can you make this claim to me that the Jedi are peace keepers.
What a tragedy..... 😔 i never been horrified by the battles of the clone wars until i was glancing over at the battle of kashyyyk. Something deep and dark come over me. I felt the horrors the waist of life the droids without any feelings just programmed to slaughter! Then the clones troopers who were used as if they were droids themselve engineered for combat selflessness souls. I pitty them i mourned the wookies caught in a doublecross! It was awful really thinking of beings made for war! Died by the thousands! Fighting machines! It horrified me so much i cant even go into my walkin closet full of stormtroopers and imperial vehicles. Not toys or cool anymore just symbols of death and destruction of suffering! 😥
At least the Reps had a codename for their efforts, and a cool one at that. Also, be grateful more dirtier and longer lasting nukes weren't used. (Say, Geetsly's, why is your former The Braved sister channel, now Infinite Ltd., having a BRICS video?)
I love how tragically hypocritical the entire Star Wars lore-sphere becomes when you cease to look at it simply as Emperor Palpatine playing a frivolous game of chess with himself.
The Clone Wars embodied the needlessness and senselessness of war. The only reason a separatist movement even happened was because the Republic had flaws, issues and caused or allowed harm to happen to people who happened to be from a different part of a Galaxy where faster-than-light travel was commonplace, all due to corruption. The war never needed to happen and it could have ended any time. All the Republic needed to do was talk, talk to the separatist politicians who represented their civilizations and ask them what the Republic needed to do or fix that would convince them to return and give them one more chance, then get to work. This is all putting aside Sith influence, who had no small role in a number of these events, like Dooku encouraging the separatists to unite to take up arms, stirring their hate and manipulating the feelings of those who simply want what’s best for their world, and Palpatine’s ‘negotiations’. If we all talked more, realized what was truly wrong and sought to sort things out, the future would look a lot brighter.
Guys, imagine this the Astra Militarum vs the GAR and the confederacy's army, who would win: I think that the astra Militarum would win due to sheer numbers,hell! They could be able to outnumber the confederacy's forces
It makes zero sense that a mine, with any valuable resources would not be worth taking over, no matter how contaminated the world is. Especially in a galaxy where droids are relatively easy to come can be designed to do anything. Great video.
I guess it was even worse than battle for Umbara where the the Clones was tricked into killing each other....that was pretty sad to see but more people died here it's just that I didn't care for them like I did the Clones
In my books the most important rule of any battle is to survive it rather than win it I would rather suffer a loss and let my men and the people around me to live rather than a win and all my men and the people around me dead after all what's more important a victory or a person's life you can replace a victory but you can't replace a person's life
Some of the greatest atrocities, battles and worst(as in cruel, not stupid) leaders of the Clone Wars in both Legends and Canon: 1.)Battles: -Umbara arc -Atraken Carnage -Mygeeto campaign -The battle of Jabiim(just read Alto Stratus' speech 😢😪) -Battle above Quell -Battle of Mon Cala -Battle of Kamino -Hunt for the Decimator -Malevolence battles -Naboo toxic experiments -First Battle of Sarapin(from here, such battles are beginning to show the darker side of the war as well the Republic losing ground in the Core and getting desperate) -The Battle of Jabiim(just read Alto Stratus' speech 😢😥) -Battle on Ryloth -Battle of Anaxes -Outer Rim Sieges (Tried to put them in order, not classifying them by viciousness) 2.Leaders: -Palpatine, ofc -Dooku, sadly he was a mere puppet, a tool. I feel sorry for him. -Grievous -Pong Krell -Ki-adi Mundi(sorry, but I simply hate him) -Tarkin -Wat Tambor -Nute Gunray -Shu Mai(possibly)
I remember when you guys first covered this battle and even included the battle breakdown showing the CIS and republic Positions on the planet it was really cool whole battle like the war meant nothing
It reminds me of the episode of Rebels where the crew meets Rex and the other clones for the first time. Rex tells Ezra that after the clone wars, he questioned the point of the whole thing and for what so many men died. Ezra replies something like : "I guess for what they thought was right". And honestly, I really find this reply tragic. Because in the end, the reason why all those clones died, was to give Palpatine unlimited power. That is all. That was the whole point of their existence and of their death.
DOCTOR: What is it that you actually want? (After a long pause.) CLARA-Z: War. DOCTOR: Ah. Ah, right. And when this war is over, when you have a homeland free from humans, what do you think it's going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you're very close to getting what you want. What's it going to be like? Paint me a picture. Are you going to live in houses? Do you want people to go to work? Will there be holidays? Oh! Will there be music? Do you think people will be allowed to play violins? Who's going to make the violins? Well? Oh, you don't actually know, do you? Because, like every other tantrumming child in history, Bonnie, you don't actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad guys, and when it's all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one? CLARA-Z: We'll win. DOCTOR: Oh, will you? Well, maybe, maybe you will win! But nobody wins for long. The wheel just keeps turning. So, come on. Break the cycle. CLARA-Z: Why are you still talking? DOCTOR: Because I want to get you to see, and I'm almost there! CLARA-Z: Do you know what I see, Doctor? A box. A box with everything I need. A fifty percent chance. KATE: For us, too. (Both women have their hands poised over the buttons. The Doctor resumes Games Host mode.) DOCTOR: And we're off! Fingers on buzzers! Are you feeling lucky? Are you ready to play the game? Who's going to be quickest? Who's going to be luckiest? KATE: This is not a game! DOCTOR: No, it's not a game, sweetheart, and I mean that most sincerely. CLARA-Z: Why are you doing this? KATE: Yes, I'd quite like to know that, too. You set this up. Why? DOCTOR: Because it's not a game, Kate. This is a scale model of war. Every war ever fought, right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn! How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning. Sit down and talk! (sigh) Listen to me. Listen, I just, I just want you to think. Do you know what thinking is? It's just a fancy word for changing your mind. CLARA-Z: I will not change my mind. DOCTOR: Then you will die stupid. Alternatively, you could step away from that box, you can walk right out of that door and you could stand your revolution down. CLARA-Z: No! I'm not stopping this, Doctor. I started it. I will not stop it. You think they'll let me go, after what I've done? DOCTOR: You're all the same, you screaming kids. You know that? Look at me, I'm unforgivable. Well, here's the unforeseeable. I forgive you. After all you've done, I forgive you. CLARA-Z: You don't understand. You will never understand. DOCTOR: I don't understand? Are you kidding? Me? Of course I understand. I mean, do you call this a war? This funny little thing? This is not a war! I fought in a bigger war than you will ever know. I did worse things than you could ever imagine. And when I close my eyes I hear more screams than anyone could ever be able to count! And do you know what you do with all that pain? Shall I tell you where you put it? You hold it tight till it burns your hand, and you say this. No one else will ever have to live like this. No one else will have to feel this pain. Not on my watch! (Kate closes the lid of the red box and steps back.) DOCTOR: Thank you. Thank you.
The clone wars may have killed the republic and the separatists, may have caused war and death upon thousands of worlds, but who it really hurt was the clones. Made to serve and die in a pointless war. Without it they would not exist, but every day it continued it claimed more of their lives. May they all rest with their brothers.
"War is Hell" General William Tecumseh Sherman: American Civil War Named after a Native American fighter from the Ohio Valley; who tried to join all the Native American tribes together to fight the Americans! He lost and was killed in the subsequent battles. However even the victors see courage in their enemy! Hence the historic name drop! Man I love history and star wars. I don't know why the above popped into my head!
What if star wars, star trek, splinter cell, ghost in the shell, assassin's creed, crysis, halo, g.i. joe, marvel, and dc got placed into the same universe?
So in summary, millions were killed, a planet's infrastructure ruined and in the long run all it accomplished was getting Palpatine one step closer to ruling the galaxy. That is depressing.
The clone wars, like life IRL was ultimately pointless. This video just reinforces my belief that “Life is nothing more than an accumulation of anguish and isn’t worth the trouble for what little happiness you are given” Life is pointless kids. So just give up hope
The whole point of the clone wars to make every citizen feel disenfranchised from either side, and to hate the absolute chaos both caused. Palpatine knew that civilians would continue to grow distrust and resentment towards Jedi, as we see in the episodes surrounding Ahsoka's arrest and excommunication from the Jedi order. If Palpatine could sow that much distrust, then an empire would be hailed and adored by everyone.
While the clone wars as a whole could have been avoided I don't think I can agree the battle was pointless. It held strategic resources so the republic couldn't just leave it be once war broke out. The battle had to be fought, but it could have been fought differently.
@@HighGroundAnimations great work it looks like, from a real clone wars episode. And I have seen every single one of them, and even I thought, it's real.
0:25-0:43: Wait, but you all ready talked about the Battle of Atraken in a Battle Break Down [Map Visualisation] video three years ago(the exact length of the Clone Wars, ironic). If you're talking about it again that can only mean one thing, my time machine worked! This means I can now use its power for good to go back in time and stop Dinsey from canceling Clone Wars so we get all of those unfinished stories and then stop them from cutting The Owl House short! LOL. Also, you like to talk about how brutal and bad The Clone Wars was a lot, why can't you talk about the better side of things, because for every Battle of Atraken that was a blood bath, there was also a Liberation of Ryloth in which brave/noble Jedi and Clones saved the innocent people of the planet from Separatist occupation. Despite all the darkness that was rising during this time, there was still light shining through here and there, with some planets actually being helped by either the Republic or the Separatist during this time, you know until the Empire rose to power and then all the planets that hadn't suffered truly bad just yet suffered under the Empire while for the planets that had already suffered greatly from the Clone Wars it was just business as usual.
Love these videos you keep us entertained with can't pass a day without watching one since finding the channel thank you keep up the great work and happy new year
I guess destroying the worlds the CIS controlled before falling into Republic hands makes sense looking at it from our POV. Kinda like how the Iraqi military burned the oil fields before retreating from the coalition forces.
![Why this Battle was the Most DEPRESSING of the Entire Clone Wars [It Was All For Nothing]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
