Why We Should Eliminate the (Z) Train 

The only benefit to the Z train is that it helped spawn Jay-Z's stage name (kinda)

The Z would've been useful if Jamaica had 4 tracks and could have a full-time express

Skip stop is incredibly stupid, it confuses the customers and creates longer waiting times at some station. You may want to apply for a job with scheduling.

In my opinion one way we can improve service on the Z line is that 1. We add a third track for on the Jamaica line for the Z train 2. Improve the z train service by it running weekdays and afternoons since rush hrs is most busiest time, it would make more sense for it to run that way .

The [Z] shouldn't be eliminated & should just be an express route. It should run to Bayside-Northern Boulevard. The new stations should be: Jamaica Avenue-168th Street, 188th Street, 196th Street, 204th Street, Hollis Court Boulevard-212th Street, 218th Street, 77th Avenue, 69th Avenue, Long Island Expressway, 51st Avenue, & Bayside-Northern Boulevard. The [J] train should run to West Hempstead-Sycamore Street via the rebuilt & extended BMT Jamaica Elevated Line. The new stations should be: 131st Street, Queens Boulevard, Sutphin Boulevard, 160th Street, 168th Street, 177th Street, 188th Street-Hollis Avenue, Carpenter Avenue, Francis Lewis Boulevard, 212th Street, 218th Street, 223rd Street, Belmont Park Road, Gotham Avenue, Elmont Road, Emporia Avenue, Landau Avenue, Doris Avenue, New Hyde Park Road, Commonwealth Street, Nassau Boulevard, & West Hempstead-Sycamore Street.

When I went to the public hearing for this skip-stop proposal decades ago, I thought it was the most ridiculous idea to have two lines running on the same track skipping every other stop then certain stops they stopped at to make connections. There's a middle track from Marcy avenue to East New York, they could have ran a Express during rush and of course the (J) local running all times.

I agree with this mostly with flyover with the M line. But if the express service is made then maybe they should make the Z line go on those express lines.

Excellent Video Man! The proposals you put to improve the J train and the reasons to eliminate the Z has been wonderful. Keep up the great work. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😉😉😉😉

they should just use full express service between marcy and broadway junction. and yes, extended it as you suggested all the way to 121st.

I’ve noticed quite a number of positions on the route, but my position is to not only get rid of the Z designation entirely, but to alter the J/Z routing (and much of the subway system) as we know it. A longer term plan, what this will entail is a few new capital projects implemented in phases. The first phase is deinterlining the B Division to prepare for the new projects. As a start, the R and W would be folded into a single R route, operating between Astoria-Ditmars Blvd and Coney Island-Stilwell Avenue, with the D going to Bay Ridge-95th Street instead via two new switches installed south of 36th Street to make the local stops. The R would operate at 20 trains per hour. Both the N and Q would operate on the Second Avenue Subway. Service on 8th Avenue and Queens Blvd would have to change as well due to the removal of the R from Queens Blvd. as such, the M would be rerouted from 53rd Street to 63rd Street and the C and D would now swap so that the C would be 8th Avenue express and operate from Norwood-205th Street to Euclid Avenue via Concourse, 8th Avenue Express, and Fulton Street Local. The D would then operate to 168th Street via 8th Avenue Local and 6th Avenue Express. With this, a new K route would operate between 71st Avenue and World Trade Center via Queens Blvd Local and 8th Avenue Local-53rd Street, filling in track capacity in the interim. Alongside this, some signal upgrades on the Williamsburg Bridge would allow for J/Z and M trains (and much of the system) to operate at 15 trains per hour, 5 of which would be (formerly the Z) trains making express stops from Broadway Junction and Marcy Avenue, while the J designation constitutes the rest of the trains that will make all the stops. Two stops, Hewes Street and Lorimer Street, will also be consolidated into a single station at Union Avenue to improve transfers. Also the platforms would be lengthened. This eliminates the Z and improves both the Jamaica Line and much of the system but we’re not done yet. Finally we get into the new construction. First would be a new East River tunnel linking the BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Street with the local tracks of the IND Fulton Street Line (via Court Street), along with a new subway tunnel under Jamaica Avenue linking the IND Fulton Street Line at Broadway Junction with the BMT Jamaica Line at Cypress Hills, replacing the elevated structure over Fulton Street. With this, the R would replace the C train on the Fulton Street Line, with 10 of those trains going to Jamaica Center to replace the J and 10 of those trains would be converted back into W trains to replace the C to Euclid Avenue. The C would then become an express on the Fulton Street to Lefferts Blvd while the A would go only to/from Far Rockaway and Rockaway Park. The J would operate between Broadway Junction and Coney Island to replace the R. This move would speed service to Lower Manhattan from the Jamaica Avenue stations and improve service in Southwest Queens. After this would be a new track connection under Broome Street linking the 8th Avenue Line with the Nassau Street Line. With this, all E and K trains would then take over J and M train service over the Williamsburg Bridge, with the E train taking over J train service to Broadway Junction and the K taking over the M train to Metropolitan Avenue. The remainder of the M route in Manhattan and Queens Blvd would be converted back into the V train to improve service on the Culver Line, specially implementing full local and express service on that line north of Church Avenue. Now that’s a grand plan to improve service and eliminate the Z.

I forgot the (Z) even existed 💀

The flyover idea sounds like what was done with the Brown Line in Chicago. Anyhow, here's an out-of-the-box counterintuitive solution about the J/Z situation: Have the Z run against the peak direction, i.e., trains skip-stop TO Jamaica AM, FROM Jamaica PM. It gets the trains to the more-in-demand terminals marginally quicker so they can be turned around quicker so that you maybe could squeeze in one more run in that hour. Anyone commuting against peak direction might be at a disadvantage, maybe, but how many are there relative to how many are going in the peak direction? When the "Z" gets to the more-in-demand terminal, it will just become a J train anyway.

Another possible stop consolidation: remove Hewes and/or Lorimer stations, and replace them with a single station at Broadway/Union for better transfers with the G train. What do you think about this one?

Aside from killing the Z line, I certainly like your idea of the flyover at Myrtle Avenue and Broadway. I may have mentioned this on your channel before (or maybe it was somewhere else), but one evening I got so pissed at having to pass up overcrowded J and Z trains at Broadway Junction, I decided instead to take the L to Atlantic Avenue, and catch an LIRR train to Jamaica instead.

Great video! Myrtle junction definitely needs a dedicated flyover for (M) trains going from Manhattan to Myrtle. Chicago recently resolved a similar issue with its Brown, Red, and Purple Lines with a new flyover at Belmont.

I think that the center track on the Jamaica line should be built and have a J express to replace the Z. Only problem, there would still be 6 trains per hour, but at least it would be more reliable

Just imagine if that express track that was planned to go over the Alabama avenue station was actually completed, or if the TA actually used the $25 Million back in 1959 for changing the platforms along the East of Broadway Junction or if the South 4th Street line was actually completed

In Santiago CL we uses skip stop at rush hour, 6 m frequency train per route. Global frequency is 3 minutes in lines with SACEM and other piloting system, it means 6 minutes between trains of same routes. It has increased the global speed for user, measured since user enters to station and whem leaving. This made with same 2 track line and no bypass loops. US problem is basicaly signaling, comunication and frequency and no relatuon with skip stop routes

I love that idea of building a 3rd separate express track between Bway Junction and Cypress Hills. That would be the only way since from Alabama to Crescent are all island platforms. But it looks like it going to cross the Queens borderline according to this map. I was thinking it could run on Jamaica Avenue into the Cypress hills station

I'd suggest implementing CBTC on the trunk, too. That may increase capacity a little bit too since the automation would have better speed regulation in speed limited zones like the Crescent St S curve.

Just seeing the title of this video, I’m all for it. This is, unless if the (Z) will allow for local/express service

Very interesting video and would love to see a video about platform extensions.

I love your videos!! Makes me excited every time!!

Hey there Mystic Transit my friend. You had a wonderful week so far I hope.

Maybe a repeat of the 1/9 situation, just have the J and use Z for some other service, maybe the IBX when it comes

Every 8 to 10 minutes trains between skip stops. The same service provided by the old QJ/KK. You know the Transit Authority will not build a new station or track along the Eastern lines. Look. We are all fans,but realistically, even attempt to build a third track has been met with nimbly resistance. The creation of the Z was the trade off. A new Marcy Ave station is definitely out of the question. I know this is fantasy site,but when it comes to building new infrastructure, the MTA WONT SPEND CAPITAL expenses...nor do they want to deal with the Queens NIMBYS the J passes through. How you can deal with the J/Z issues is to modify service patterns. The terminal at Jamaica center is the bottle neck. It hampers turn around because of the interlocking being so far away. Honestly, if the Jamaica line rebuild was on their radar..it would be out there going through feasible studies. Terminal improvement, increased frequency, new service patterns are the only options the TA has. Now, my thing is, in order to straighten out the J line,the ideal plan is to build a branch directly along Jamaica Ave from ENY TO CYPRESS HILLS,while keeping the elevated line over Fulton st,effectively creating a two branch system. The Fulton route would run to Crescent st...while the Jamaica branch would travel to its present terminal. This eliminates the bottle neck,and slow timers over Crescent. Once again, the MTA isn't willing to spend any more capital than it has too,which shows when you look at how the line is operated. Not knocking your " improvements,but if you are going to spend billions, better make it count.

If your idea makes trains go faster to shorten times enough, we might not need express service

I think CBTC on the J and M would make service more frequent allowing express service similar to the 7

This shows none of you ride it daily. It's here for a reason and if it was so bad, MTA would have cut the Z already. They tried in 2010 and people were not having it. the 1/9 skip stop failed because how it was structured. It helps speed up the trip if you are traveling between Jamaica and Broadway junction and Manhattan. Thats why the Z was created, Skip Stop existed before the Z back in the 60s and 70s on the Jamaica Line. Also They tried to have the Line go straight down Jamaica Ave past cypress hills but didn't happen due to the people not wanting a train running down their block. So that plan was crushed.

You're right Mystic Transit, I sometimes take that line when I am in NYC. However, for years I have taken it very frequently and you know what? For years I have said that the "Z" service is useless. The "J" trains take much longer at a certain time because of this. I also like the rebuilding and expansion options you mentioned too. 🙂🙂🙂

I never realized the J/Z literally has a rush hour! Those frequencies are also so low. On the 1/9 I remember trains running every 2 to 4 min so it didn't take long for your train to arrive. I think they should have kept skip stop service on the 1/9 and gotten rid of it on the J/Z.

To be honest I only liked the Z when it had 32s, now you guys may say “Oh He’s just a Smee foamer” The truth is seeing 32s Running express or running at all is so satisfying to me, I know this video has nothing to do with car models but, I’m just saying. I Like The Z

I know along the J and Z lines there still old tracks that can be used, back then they used to have 4 tracks instead of two or three like today. They could just implement this back instead of 2 or 3 tracks. This way the Z train can run all the time without any issues.

taking this train to the school i just graduated from was pretty annoying because of the whole 1 train every 10 minutes situation. This is pretty neat that people are trying to improve it

I like the extra 3rd track between Cypress Hills and Broadway Junction (kinda utilizing the old Jamaica Ave El). One of the best consolidations I would like to see is merging the Hewes St station and the Lorimer St Station. The G train does have an outside transfer to both stations at Broadway station, but it is redundant, in my opinion. The best option would be to close down both those stations and make a Union Ave station to transfer with the G at Broadway. I do also like the idea of making Marcy Ave a fully express station, using the abandoned Myrtle Ave station for thorough M service (they should honestly make a Myrtle Ave shuttle which runs between Metropolitan Ave and Downtown Brooklyn) or I would like to see some sort of Rapid Transit along the entire Myrtle Ave from Richmond Hill to Downtown Brooklyn - adds a benefit without the need of going into Manhattan.

The last time I rode an R32 was on The (Z) Line. (If I'm not mistaken).

I do like the idea of eliminating the Z train. It only runs in peak hours during the day cause it only has one express track. Marcy Ave should have 2 island platforms before converting into 2 tracks to the Williamsburg Bridge. Another thing is Myrtle Ave-Broadway should be an ADA station and eliminate the existing tracks over the Myrtle Av-Broadway station. As the express tracks convert into 2 towards Broadway Junction, the express tracks should be extended to 121 St but the 4 remaining island platforms for Alabama Ave, Van Siclen Ave,Cleveland St,Norwood Ave and Crescent St should be eliminated and put 2 new side platforms for Z skip-stop trains. One more thing. Woodhaven Blvd should have an island platform for direct service to/from Jamaica Center or Broad St

I never was a fan of the skip-stop service, anyway... but the Jamaica-Broadway line definitely needs improvement... eliminating the Z line only solves one problem.

Yes please. Do a video on platform extensions. How would they go about it, etc.

Great analysis. Love the vanshnookenraggen feature

Thank you for this lol. I almost forgot there was a Z train until I moved to Cypress Hills at Van Siclen. The Z train is like the annoying little brother of the J. I agree the skip stop service is a big joke. I live at a skip stop and I feel for the most part it does nothing. It feels local from Van Siclen to Chauncey street. You miss one train and it takes 10 minutes for the other and then you have risk of delays because of the M at Myrtle Ave Bway interlining. My question is why is the express track never used between Myryle and Broadway Junction? A third track between Broadway Junction and 121 street would be ideal. The upper abandoned track at Myrtle would be ideal for the M. Lots of construction and May cost some money, but it would be worth it. Hopefully the MTA Is willing to serve minority residents of this area.

Kill the Z, Demolish the Skip-Stop planning, J full time local service, revamp the other half of Jamaica Avenue. Then implement Rush Hour Express service

Building an express station at Woodhaven Blvd would require elevating the center track with it own platforms. So it would require more construction than necessary. But it has already been done with the second/third avenues lines in Manhattan. It's just that would nimby approve of this layout. There is another issue that people forgot to mentioned for this station. There has been a proposal to reactivate the Rockaway line from Queens Blvd. Unfortunately, the current Woodhaven station sits too far back for a meaningful connect. So a new built center track would have to include this in it plans. Extend it far enough that makes transfer easier on riders using these two services.

Doesn’t need extended platforms I believe they run just fine…more trains running would be cool but to make the train 10 cars and extend the station isn’t necessary

For a short term solution I propose replacing the Z with a or re-reroute the Z to run express from Bway Junction- Marcy Av on the existing third track. (Stopping at Myrtle Av of course.)

As much I love the Z Train and experienced going on it, it was fun. It is time to let it go so the J can improve and change positions for better communicative services. The BMT Nassau is ancient as hell, but its time to step up game. It can do more work for the MTA has to look into as far as I'm concerned. Not now and not later.

I quite literally only ever seen this train once in my 20 years living in NYC

Don’t get rid of it… the mta could make it run express between Marcy Av & Broadway Junction during rush hrs at peek direction

I know the best way to improve the Jamaica Line (and the Nassau and Myrtle lines). -Restore the Nassau St Line’s former northbound tracks and add a new eastbound platform at Essex St. -Widen the trackways on the Williamsburg Bridge to make room for a 4-track line. This would result in a lane reduction, but it won’t be a very big issue after congestion pricing is implemented. -The new 4-track line can continue by replacing the section from Marcy Ave to Myrtle Ave with a 4-track line. Marcy Ave can be rebuilt as an express station and the rest can be rebuilt as local stations. -Hewes St and Lorimer St can be demolished and replaced by a single local station in between called Union Ave. That way, it can provide a free transfer with Broadway on the Crosstown Line. -Just before Myrtle Ave, the express tracks can serve the station’s lower level and become a 3-track line and the local tracks can serve a rebuilt upper level and also become a 3-track line. The local tracks can continue as the Myrtle Line and the center track that used to exist can be re-installed. -The rest of the Jamaica Line can continue as the express tracks and be retained as a 3-track line. The section from Alabama Ave to Crescent St can replace the island platforms with side platforms and convert the stations to 3-track local stations. Crescent St and Cypress Hills can be eliminated and be replaced by an express station in the middle of the S-shaped curve. That way, trains don’t have to slow down where there’s no station. -Continue installing a center track until after 121st St where it finally ends before the Archer Ave Line. -Replace Woodhaven Blvd and 104th St with an express station directly over and perpendicular to the currently-abandoned Rockaway Beach Branch as a provision for a transfer with Queenslink if it ever gets built. -The new express stations I mentioned will not only reduce the number of stations and make journeys quicker but they also add express stations so that express trains wouldn’t have too few stops on a long section. Plus, all trains stopping at a station on the S-curve means no more weird slowdowns. -The J’s termini would be Chambers St and Jamaica Center and the M’s termini would be Broad St and Metropolitan Ave. The J having a diamond variant would be obvious, but the M could have that too, bypassing Central Ave and Knickerbocker Ave in the peak direction.

The problem with building an island platform on Marcy Av is that the station is already too close together to a lot of infrastructure. A better plan might be to close Marcy Av. And rebuild the station over the bus hub. In between Havemeyer & s 5 St With some rearranging and maybe even expanding the bus hub in Williamsburg it will not only improve bus service but also give everyone easier connections to the buses

Yeah good idea, I never thought to implement express service between broadway junction and Jamaica, I’m excited about transit news this Sunday(probably will be about Bronx buses) and NYC regional rail(wonder what other improvements you’ll mention)=) yeah you did convert me to kill the Z train squad

I agree with the Z elimination and the M flyover for Metropolitan bound trains. I just cant see a super Express track over Jamaica Avenue in my lifetime 🤷‍♀️ The flyover for it does exist though at Alabama Avenue.

The first time I rode the Z train was in 2018 when I was on my way to the High School I ended up attending to check out to see if it was good for me since I had just graduated Middle School. The ride was from Fulton Street to Sutphin Boulevard and was made up of R42s, making it the first and only time I ever rode them, and the Z train I was riding was actually running local and not express or skip-stop. The ride back was on the J train to Broadway Junction which was running the then-new R179s which made it the first time I ever rode them.

I live by a J only stop. I really think skip stop is great (for the current infrastructure). If you want to add new infrastructure then I'm not sure you're thinking in the same funding universe The stop spacing is too dense to begin with and I feel this helps to accelerate commutes.

I was thinking we bring back the upper level platform at Myrtle Avenue for the M to stop there. I think I will cause less delays for the J & Z there.

Mystic what if the J was skip stop and rush hour only and the Z was All Day Would you still hate the Z

I know how they could improve the Z. Make two exress tracks on every side platform local stop on the J, and the Z would run both directions express, not skip - stop. It would run on the express tracks. It would only run on weekdays, and local on late nights.

I agree!!! I take the J and when it turns skip-stop service, I have to rush out of the house and anyone who’s coming with me because they don’t understand the wait time is really long. Now especially since every time I miss the first Skip-stop, J service becomes out of wack and sometimes we have to wait longer than 10 mins!!!

personally, i think we make the J local at all times, and make the Z express at all times, and removing skip stop service

Nah man, Z is my favorite letter.

Agreed. As a side note, the Myrtle Ave line should be extended to connect with the Franklin Ave Shuttle

admittedly the Z is under used, but I wouldn't make an argument to merc it entirely, even though skip stop on other lines aren't effective, they weren't around as long as the J/Z skip stop pattern, going WAAAAAAY back to 1970 they split it into A and B stations served by the QJ, and KK/MM. Admittedly the biggest reason I still like the Z is simply because even though i may have to wait longer for a train odds are its less crowded compared to the J that may rip through (especially during rush hour...) AM Rush towards the Junction makes Skip Stop feel useful rather than trying to shove myself into a sardine can of a train. The best thing I can say about any of these plans would be either 1) Marcy Avenue being rebuilt since its relatively outdated and is no longer an Express Through Station like it was back in the day or 2) Myrtle Avenue Line Flyover. My Preference leans towards the Flyover, I've been on an J/Z that often gets stuck a train making a connection with an M, only to have the M leave first despite the fact the Express is a bit backed up. I don't know how the Execution would work especially since the Myrtle Upper Level hasnt been used and is also completely facing a different direction Marcy Avenue should definitely be rebuilt as its VERY outdated as we can say and it can actually be used as a proper terminal for when the Williamsburg Bridge goes down my biggest counter arguement to destroying any station no matter how little use is the distance... have you actually WALKED from 75th to Cresent... its not fun nor is it pretty, sure its under used... part of that being its literally next to a *swear word* graveyard no stations should be destroyed. Finally I do think an Express on the Northern Portion of the Jamaica Line would be nice... the matter is Execution and even so, JC to Cypress is one of the faster portions, not where an Express track is the S curve is painful sometimes but the restrictions are fast enough where it doesn't feel that bad I just wonder how the Execution of an Express track down Jamaica Avenue would be... its a good idea on paper but how will it work

What’s difference between skip stop and express? I take 7 so I’m confused, does skip stop mean there’s no special platform?

How much times do current skip stop expresses save over off-peak local J Trains?

Can you do a video on how can the Z line be improved on the Jamaica Avenue line instead of removing it?

The Z skip stop is meant to bring the majority of commuters to the places the majority want to go in the fastest time. E.G. Jamaica Ctr to Broadway Jct. And it only has a limited service span. If service is such an issue, have additional trains short turn, so that they run only between Broadway Jct and Jamaica

The joke is that scheduling is unrealistic and doesn’t account for put-ins and layups…. And you’re waiting 8-10 minutes during the off peak anyway. Sometimes even 15.

I agree with the skip stop service when I was living in NYC it took the J line during rush hour it can take my trip an additional 15-20 minutes.

Sounds good, but I do not believe that I can see this project completed in my lifetime lol

Stop consolidation makes sense in some areas of the Jamaica Line. For example, Hewes Street and Lorimer Street should be consolidated with one stop at Broadway and a transfer to the G. I also think Alabama Avenue, Norwood Avenue, and Cypress Hills should be closed, with additional entrances added at adjacent stations. Peak direction express service makes sense for the Jamaica Line as it's long, has a lot of stops, and some of the busiest stations are at the end of the line. Woodhaven Boulevard is the only local station that should be converted to an express station because it has a lot of bus connections. I assume that express trains would make stops at Marcy Avenue, Myrtle Avenue, Broadway Junction, Woodhaven Boulevard, 121st Street, Sutphin Boulevard, and Parsons Boulevard.

I think the middle track between cresent and Jamaica should be rebuilt to make the Z a peak direction express and the J fully local. Also I have provisions for it to go to Bath Beach or extend the Z to St george from broad st straight to the ferry terminal, or if Both do not work, we will just have to eliminate the Z completely until second av subway phase 3/4 opens, where the Z will become an all new line serving SAS and undeserved Queens areas via the 21 st queensbridge to the superbypass, my new Z train route will serve both from 125 st and St Nicholas all to the Rockaways, going the proposed superbypass then via the old Rockaway Beach Branch as an express train with the H doing local service on that same branch, the T would serve other places in queens as far as Cambria Heights Queens Village, Bayside and/or Little Neck, I this case the Z will be cyan like the T because it will run via 2nd av by then. The Z would replace the rockaway park shuttle to Rockaway Park and the Z would go from 125 and St Nicholas to Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway on weekdays, weekends the Z's northern termini will be cut back to 72 St where it merges with the T train and late nights the Z can be cut back again to 63 st Rego Park still running express from Howard Beach to Rego Park, where you can directly get the E train from rego park on late nights, which will be one of the stations that will show up in the proposed Rockaway Beach Branch rebuild

Funny because I just took the (Z) Train not too long ago and it got me where I needed to go with no problems. So I think we can improve service on the (Z) line but I don't think getting rid of the (Z) Train is the solution.

If possible I’d make the J an express from Marcy Av to Broadway Junction. Or if the city feels like wasting more money make it to where the el branches outward from the original Jamaica El

The fact you found some videos of the train Z is a miracle 🤣

Why not a full length express run for the Z in the morning from Eastern Parkway til Marcy Avenue like it was done by the old BMT from 1918 to 1940 when it was bought by the New York City Board of Transportation? And the same in the opposite direction of the afternoon rush hour?

why ot connect the z to the nearrest lirr braches.

I loved the Z train. Lived in Brooklyn all my life and it got me to the city in record time during rush hour rather than taking the J train with all those local stops. It serves a purpose. Why would I need to take all those local stops when I can get to the city, which is my destination, in a few stops?

The New Yorker Subway Nets is very big, and renovates very long and very many of the constructions works! Your Alexander PS: By us in Germany give many construction work of much the trains and underground trains temporarily discontinued services of the subsection routes of trains and underground elimated or cancelled!

Dude not gonna lie they should hire you as a ceo for the MTA you actually think about the people and the service

Please do a video on platform extensions on the BMT Eastern lines

Nice video but let's face it, the MTA won't get rid of the Z train.

I'm impressed, I get really annoyed by videos that can easily be explained in one sentence, but you actually provided more to the conversation and offered ideas for how to improve the BMT Jamaica Line in general instead of just making a 10-minute video saying "Skip Stop bad, therefore Z bad", which can be answered in one sentence. In terms of stop consolidation though, it might be more optimal to close Hewes Street and Lorimer Street and build a new station at Union Avenue to provide a free transfer to the G Train, especially considering Hewes and Lorimer are so close together (7ish blocks apart). I get that Crescent Street isn't heavily used but to be fair, considering that stop is right before the s-curve, trains have to slow down there anyways so would it really help that much if you don't get rid of that?

OT: Funny that SEPTA's Market-Frankford service, which is 2 tracks over its full length, eliminated Skip-Stop a few yrs ago after Decades of SS during Rush Hour.

Would like to see a video on platform extensions. One thing I don't see talked about often is yard space. I used to travel between Jamaica and Broadway Junction on a regular basis. I also traveled to Cypress Hills every day to transfer to the B13 (north to/from Ridgewood). They increased frequencies slightly on the B13 in 2018 and you can see the results for yourself in MTA's ridership charts lol. Trains are often crowded at the Jamaica end for the simple reason that Broadway Junction, Myrtle Ave, and Jamaica Center have their primary or only exits at the east end, as well as the majority of the stops in between (like Crescent, 75th, 85th, 104th). The bright side is it's the opposite in Manhattan and few other stops in Brooklyn so loads during the AM rush are better distributed (i.e. it's equally hard to squeeze in any part of the train at Myrtle-Bway or Marcy lol). There's multiple potential areas for speedups even within the existing track. Trains crawl on straight track between Broadway Junction and Alabama Ave for whatever reason. I'm confident trains can do a steady 15 MPH between Crescent and Cypress Hills. Currently they repeatedly slow to a crawl before going back up to like 10 MPH and then slowing down again. I'm not sure about an express service if capacity across the Williamsburg bridge is limited anyway. Reducing wait times is also reducing travel times - the time you'd save on an express train is negated by waiting extra for it. I really don't think it will end up being that advantageous. So why not have all J trains run local at every 5 minutes, with the aforementioned speed increases? This way you'd reduce merges too. I love the Myrtle-Broadway flyover idea. Besides consolidating Hewes and Lorimer, I'd also consider consolidating Van Siclen and Alabama, or at least relocate the latter, and building a faster curve there.

I definitely agree with building a third track along Jamaica Av from Bway Junction- Cypress Hills or even replacing the current stations on Fulton St for new ones with 3 tracks on Jamaica Av. I would propose replacing Alabama Av station for a station on Bushwick - Pennsylvania Avs Replacing Van Siclen Av & Cleveland St with a Station at Ridgewood Av & Jamaica Av. And finally Replace Norwood Av with a station at Highland Blvd & Jamaica Av and converting Cypress Hills into an express Station.

This all sounds great but if this were to happen, they would also need to make all of those elevated Jamaica line stations ADA accessible. No use increasing speeding up service if there's no passengers to take advantage.

Tbh the Z is just a Skip stop J but is a B pattern & the J is a A pattern during rush hour..

If we do keep the Z, at least remodel the stations to have a middle track. This way it can have peak direction without skip stop!

Lol so many comments from me, but this video resonates with me as someone who lives on this line…..I would love for them to extend that Myrtle Avenue structure back to downtown Brooklyn

The flyover with the (M) line sounds like a really good idea, considering that the (M) train kinda delays the (J) as it's turning to go to Metropolitan Ave after Myrtle-Broadway, it will definitely make trains go faster. I will say, at first, I didn't think eliminating the (Z) train was necessary, but after watching this video, you're absolutely right, it's probably time to put this train to rest. I also think the MTA should replace the (Z) rush hour trips with a new express service. trains would run express between Marcy and Broadway Junction, and fully local for the rest of the route. This will be similar to the (6) and (7) trains as they also have a pattern like this. Like you said, this probably might not change anything cause the (J) would still have to give up trains to go express as it does with the (Z) right now, but the good thing is they would run more frequently. And heck, when the R211s finally enter service, maybe they can help extend the (J)'s service so that it can run more trains. If the MTA does decide to build new express tracks and make the line a 4-track line, then maybe the (Z) can stay and be the express train while the (J) can be local. I don't see how there's any other way the (Z) can stay. Even if the (Z) is extended to 4th avenue along the old Brown (M) route, it wouldn't work cause not only would the line be too long, but the whole reason why the Brown (M) failed was because not a lot of people used the Nassau Street trains to get to Downtown Brooklyn, so I can definitely picture the (Z) train having a lot of empty trains too.

The fly over back from Myrtle to Flushing cant work due to high rise buildings being in the way sadly taken over. Also at Marcy ave island platform wont fit there another high rise building in the way maybe by the Bus Terminal nearby there alot of open space I think there. But that express from Mrytle to Broadway junction and cypress hill that can may work I dont think there no big buildings there but

I agree with adding an extra third express track on the Jamaica line. I think the stops with Jamaica/Broadway (Bklyn) Express should/would be like this: Jamaica Center / Parsons Archer Sutphin Blvd-JFK Airport 121st St Woodhaven Blvd-Jamaica Crescent St Van Siclen Av Alabama Av Broadway Junction Myrtle Av-Broadway Marcy Av Delancey St-Essex St Bowery Canal St Chambers St Fulton St Broad St

One improvement that the MTA should do with the BMT Eastern Division Line is that it gets reconstructed and propose a plan to lengthen the current trains from 8 cars to 9 cars which will definitely be an improvement. In order to accommodate 9-cars, some of the stations on the BMT Jamaica Line would have to be either reconfigured or eliminated. By reconstructing the line, I think that eliminating the sharp S curves will be very helpful as it will increase the travel times between 121st Street and Broadway Junction while the rest of the line between Broadway Junction and Broad Street is good the way how it is now. All of the stations between Broad Street and Broadway Junction would have to be reconstructed in order to accommodate 9 cars while the ones between Alabama Avenue and 121st Street would have to undergo modifications. I also think that adding a third track will be very helpful. Hopefully, these improvements get considered and I think that riders will benefit themselves if the J, L, & M Trains get lengthened from 8 cars to 9 cars.

I think it's best if the Z train runs on the express track only like the Jamaican line express?

What happens if we put CBTC on the line to allow for more service so that express be reasonably done?

How about the Z replicates the former Brown M service prior to 2010. Let the southern terminal be at 9th Ave or Bay Parkway.

Middle platform at Marcy Avenue, might be a reach, as it only benefits trains heading into Manhattan. Also the third rail merge occurs before Marcy Avenue platform; thus, once the train leaves the station it runs on a two rail system on the Willamsburg Bridge. Honestly not worth the time or investment to disrupt the volume of ridership.

I’d reintroduce the M train service via 4th Ave and New Utrecht Ave to Bay Pkwy. The D train would take its original service service on the Brighton Line and end at Brighton Beach and only head to Coney Island on late nights (12 AM - 6 AM) while the B train would go via the West End line and would serve all times except nights with the exception between 36th St and Coney Island. The M train will fully be a part of the Nassau St Line and would enter downtown Brooklyn via Lawrence St and Court St and will serve express via 4th Ave and locally via New Utrecht Ave. The B train will serve peak hour express along New Utrecht Ave and a full time express along 4th Ave.

Idk how in 100 years of Nyc there still no train line that goes from college point area to the bottom of Brooklyn its a no brainer no one is trying to go from Brooklyn to Manhattan to go back to queens on a 7 dollar bus that comes at most twice an hour

Frankly, I think The Z only exists because it's an historic line and people would be angry if it were completely lost.