Why West Virginia Might Be Illegal 

"And in a controversial ruling, the Supreme Court today ruled that West Virginia is technically a princedom of the Holy Roman Empire. Karl von Habsburg is expected to take up residency in the governor's mansion in Charleston within the week, where he is expected to be proclaimed Emperor of the Romans before the end of the year"

Ah yes, the state founded in the civil war and had literally an infinite number of choices and went with the unoriginal 'west virginia'.

West Virginian Unionists: _“My lord, is that legal?”_ President Lincoln: *”I will make it legal.”*

Possibly the single greatest video notification I’ve ever gotten

Supreme Court: In a landmark ruling, we have decided that West Virginia is null and void and shall be combined back with Virginia shortly Legislative Branch: What Executive Branch: What West Virginians: What Classic Virginians: What Every other state: What Supreme Court: Thank you for your time

EmperorTigerstar says West Virginia shouldn’t exist.. This angered John Denver who punished him severely.

As a West Virginiaian who lives in the Eastern panhandle, I find this topic interesting to watch. I still think WV is a constitutional state because in the eyes of WV and US, VA gave up their statehood when they joined "essentially" a different country, giving grounds to a disputed border zone between the union and the Confederates on where the border actually was. Since the people in the west wanted to become a state, they technically weren't a part of any state at that point since Virginia seceded.

Hold on a minute. The timeline suggests that West Virginia isn't unconstitutional - it's Virginia that's unconstitutional. West Virginia is the legal government of Virginia!

They really missed an opportunity to call it Virginia and force actual Virginia to be East Virginia

Here’s what I’ve always wanted to know: if Congress already recognized the Pierpont government as the legitimate government of Virginia, why did they bother seceding at all?

There's some important stuff that was left out around the whole "WV is officially admitted as a state" part. What happened is that the Pierpont government of the Unionist areas of VA held a referendum on whether VA should cede those areas that would become WV. The referendum was theoretically open to all citizens of VA, but, not surprisingly, a lot of them didn't vote in it because they were, well, fighting a war on the opposite side at the time. But of the votes cast, the referendum passed, and so the Unionist VA government ceded those those lands to the new state. Peirpont's government then moved to Union-held Alexandria, from where they governed those areas of (current) VA that the Union could hold. After the war, Pierpont's government moved to Richmond and governed the full (current) state from there, until they lost in the first election held...

The funny thing is, the reading that separates the "made from a state" from the "except by consent of the state gov." clauses wouldn't just make WV illegal but also Maine (which split from Massachusetts).

Any arguments about legality in regards to anything in the civil war is basically a moot point. Neither side cared anymore and broke every single law they could, and the American legal tradition pretty much only continues by an unspoken pact to not acknowledge anything that happened during that period, because to acknowledge any of it would be to overturn it, and that would bring so much crumbling down.

Anybody find it funny how Afghanistan and West Virginia just happen to look similar

So let me get this strait: the government of Virginia seceded from itself and then gave land to its future self from its current self

Y'all got it all wrong. It's not that DC recognized West Virginia as a legitimate state. Instead West Virginia recognized DC as the legitimate government. And don't you forget it

Virginia: "How about we secede from the US" West Virginia: "How about no?" Virginia: "K, Bye!" West Virginia: "Alright, we secede from you." US: "Hey, Virginia can't secede from us like that!" Virginia: "Oh yes we can! Now watch us do it." *End of Civil War* Virginia: "Alright, 'West Virginia' hows about time you rejoin your real lords." West Virginia: "What? No, we are our own state." Virigina: "Wait, that's illegal!" US: "Welp, you just took part in causing our nation a 5 year war with 700k deaths." Virginia: "So-" US: "No. Just no." The hypocrisy is unbeliveable.

There's absolutely noway we would ever want to reunite with Virginia. It was for the best we split apart, they ignored our side of the Appalachians since the beginning and it's likely they'd do the same still.

I've been doing a lot of research into WV around the Civil War thanks to my family connections to the area. The entire splitting and creation of the state is fascinating to read, because half of it was just to spite the Virginians. I don't think they cared whether it was legal or not, they were going to be their own state

As a Virginian, I would like to say that we are willing to officially overlook this, as we do not desire the return of these lands.

I love that the ultimate conclusion of what could be a serious case of constitutionality is just that everyone went "Yeah, whatever," and let it be.

I really expected "I am Emperor Tigerstar and I will see you in the Supreme Court!" :D

An amendment that simply confirms WV's statehood would be the easiest amendment to pass ever.

Suggests bringing the legality of a state's existence to the Supreme Court purely for the fun of it. *Sigma Grindset*

The virgin "map-painting" military historians vs the chad "obscure legal technicalities" legal historians

In the words of History Matters in regards to any claims by Virginia on the supposed illegality of West Virginia's forming: You were rebelling, so shut up. Virginia had and has no legal grounds to stand on to oppose West Virginia's existence.

I know this will have to do with the Civil War

Sorry the Supreme Court doesn’t take cases just for fun it’s an official rule

Taxes is my favorite US state

Okay, so, the way you can think about it is one of two ways. One: the eastern counties of Virginia were in revolt, so only the western counties were legitimate VA, so VA consented to having a new state created out of its own borders… which just so happened to consist of all the counties not in revolt. View two, the more… interesting one: Eastern VA revolted against the government, and western VA is all that’s left of legitimate VA. Virginia then renames it’s self to West Virginia. After the war, the eastern revolting counties were considered occupied territory and not a state for a time. Then, they were readmitted to the Union as the state of Virginia, as that name was no longer in use. This view is incredibly cursed, I know. As a Virginian, it hurts me as much as it hurts you.

The semi-colon interpretation as completely prohibiting partitioning of states would also invalidate Kentucky and Maine.

The Wheeling government had legal recognition as the government of Virginia. As the legal government, they voted to split up their state as is allowable with federal consent. And a state was broken up before. Maine was split from Massachusetts, after all, also with the state’s consent. There’s really no arguably about this, it’s a long-settled matter.

Similar shenanigans led to the ratification of the 13, 14, and 15 amendments. Despite claiming states did not have the right to secede, and thus secession was illegitimate, the union still forced passage of those amendments as a condition of re-entry.

*CSA* We believe in small governments and that places can seceed from a larger entities if they want. *Also CSA* West Virginia is staying as part of Virginia (and by extention the CSA) whether they want it or not.

Wow this is really incredible! I've never heard of this before and I'm kind of history and geography nerd so thanks to you my friend for bringing this to such attention. I can't wait to bring up this meeting with you yet to those people who are forced to listen to me and my babbling about nerdy stuff LOL keep them coming my man!

Seceding from the union is also illegal but East Virginia doesn’t mind

I love seeing people debate about punctuation marks in the Constitution, when in the Constitution itself, they used the word version of "its" in Article 1 Section 10. These people were highly intelligent and educated, but they weren't really making legal distinctions with small differences in punctuation

was just in West Virginia the other day and this video popped up :)

This is an interesting and entertaining topic. I've read about it before, and I recall that I laughed out loud as I read about it back in the day. Well done in explaining the topic.

I need to watch more of your videos this is heavenly

The Wheeling Convention was so supremely and utterly based that West Virginia gets and deserves their exception.

I sent this to my friend who lives in, and is from, West Virginia and he said "Yes, we are. Now try to stop us."

*Country roads stops playing*

Imagine thinking the Constitution is taken into account whenever it's inconvenient.

Fun fact: regular ol' Virginia extends further to the west than West Virginia

There's an old common law concept called adverse possession. It means that after so much time passes, you don't have any claim to property that was once yours. This would certainly qualify.

"I not only followed the rules but made up my own as I went along." -W.Virginia and the Supreme Court

I love how obstinately this man refuses to get a better mic

Fun fact: Frederick County, VA is the only county in Virginia that got the offer to join West Virginia and turned it down. A few years ago West Virginia offered Frederick County to join them anyway, with the hopes that conservative Frederick County would be happy to join politically like-minded people now that Virginia is generally liberal. As much as Frederick County's population resents being in a liberal bastion, they were in no mood to switch: Virginia is definitely wealthier, and seen as better governed nonetheless.

Interesting topic but I think the recognition in the house and senate counts as an official recognition

I know you won't make it, but, do ever think of showing a tutorial in Bow you make these maps of history of nations, and BTW, nice video, I like these explanations

Considering Maine used to be part of Massachusetts and there is a claim that the clause about breaking away from another state is not included in the approval of legislatures, does that make Maine illegal? (Would that really affect anything?)

_"...to the place, I belong, West Virginia..."_ EmperorTigerstar: *"Prison* is where _you_ belong!"

To paraphrase the channel ‘History Matters’ video on West Virginia’s separation from Virginia “You were rebelling, so shut up”

Wait even with the amount of subscribers you have you aren't doing it full time? Geez it must take so much time and patience to finally get enough subscribers and consistent viewership to do this full-time. Well I now know I'll literally never be able to do RU-vid as a full-time job and not have to work regular jobs. I do hope you reach your goal. That would be awesome! Anyways this West Virginia argument is just so weird. I honestly had no idea this happened, but I'm glad to find out now

The position of many in Congress at the time was that the secessions were legal and required the states to be readmitted once the war was successfully concluded. Lincoln, and Johnson after him wanted to make the reintegration smooth and as painless as possible to put the hardships of the war behind them as quickly as possible and begin healing the nation. Congress enacted the Reconstruction Acts which provided for the military government of the rebel states and the conditions under which they would be readmitted to Congress. Since only states have full Congressional representation, it could be argued that the rebel states were not true states of the Union as only states of the Union have full Congressional representation, and thus tacit recognition of the legality of their secession. Since Article IV, Section 3 gives Congress the power to admit new states, and such admission requires only an act of Congress, the Reconstruction Acts can be termed to be the act(s) of Congress which served to admit the militarily occupied rebel states to the Union. With this argument, it becomes simple to argue that the northwest counties of Virginia legally seceded from an independent non-Union state, and thus had the right to petition Congress for admission to the Union, somewhat similar to how Texas was annexed in 1848. Thus, a state was not created out of an existing state of the Union because that state had seceded from the Union and was no longer subject to the Constitution of the United States. The simple fact of the matter is that West Virginia is an accepted State of the Union, it has participated in all Presidential elections since its admission, all states recognize West Virginia as a state, giving full faith and credit to their laws (I'm sure any driver from West Virginia who's ever been ticketed outside of West Virginia can attest to this as they were not detained for having no valid driver's license), and as such it's status as a state is not in question Also, as a common law nation those Supreme Court cases are enough to establish the existence and legality of West Virginia as they are recognized and treated as a state of the Union, unless I am mistaken. Also, West Virginia does have three Representatives, all of which are Republican, so suddenly removing them from the House could have an affect on the balance of power in the House, albeit possibly a minor one, though those seats have been reliably Republican since 2015.

Joe Manchin has a lot of explaining to do...

West Virginian here. The Union recognized the Restored Government of Virginia on the grounds that secession and insurrection was illegal, so any officer fighting for the Confederacy had, in the eyes of the Union, vacated their office. The Restored Government maintained the laws of the Commonwealth, including the 1851 Constitution, and was led primarily by duly-elected Unionists, with some key vacancies filled by the General Assembly. Thus, in the eyes of the United States Government, the constitutionality of West Virginia wasn’t really in question. After West Virginian statehood, the Restored Government wasn’t able to replace representatives in Congress lost to West Virginia, but they remained the legal government of Virginia. Although the remaining officers quickly lost power when elections were held, a new constitution was created, and many of the new officers never recognized the legitimacy of the Restored Government, the government of Virginia continues at least officially to trace its path through the Union government and not the Confederate one.

This is the most times I’ve heard the word Virginia in a video. Ever

Love coming across this as a West Virginian. I could see ups and downs to some sort of return to Mega- Virginia and the arguments in court would probably fun. Just fun to see the state discussed

As someone from WV I have always loved this fact. [EDIT] watched to the end, I would never want to re-join Virginia. WV hates VA. Probably because a lot of people think we are still one and the same

1:25 is Virginia clambering to get West Virginia back? Even back then West Virginians were feeling not well represented by folks in Richmond (sort of like how people in Northern California don’t feel represented by folk in Sacramento) West Virginia doesn’t have much to offer Virginia.

1:29 that semicolon is necessary because it's separating items in a series that contain a comma in one of them.

Virginia: We have the right to leave! West Virginia: Then we’re leaving you. Virginia: YOU CAN’T DO THAT!

As a citizen of Virginia, I consent to the existence of West Virginia. While the extra land could be nice, I think the song “take me home, country roads” is sufficient compensation.

The united states is such an interesting place really I mean it as non America I really like learning about it's history and how the states were made and what problem that are facing

Wait, you're telling me we can get rid of Manchin this way? *Head explodes*

This video was enlightening on the history of West Virginia

West virginia: exists The us goverment: wait that’s illegal.

West Virginians reading the title be like: 👁️👄👁️

Lawyer who happens to hate WV: **watches this video** The lawyer after watching the video: **cackles menacingly**

@EmperorTigerstar: 1:50 The State of Maine: "I'm in danger"

My fave part of this whole thing is that after the civil war; the ex-confeds in virginia tried to argue this exact claim and were denied on the simple grounds that once they attempted to secede from the union they no longer had the same protections as a member of the union so it wasnt unconstitutional when WV did it. Ofc, this was mostly bcuz no way are we giving land to the losers in a war xD

No West Virginia, no Joe Manchin, a win-win if I ever seen one

Thank you.

We wrote an essay about this for WV history.

I mean, considering that several amendments to the constitution are probably illegitimate.... This is hardly the biggest problem.

>West Virginian here Wot in Tarnations goin on here?

One thing I love about our state is that its shaped like the middle finger...it kind of sums up our feelings in a way. We always do what we want to do in our own way. 😊

This video is like what Senator Sheev Palpatine of Naboo said in the Phantom Menace, “A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.”

Yet another reminder that the U.S. is older than the modern usage of the comma. Americans really, REALLY need to have a Constitutional convention

West Virginia’s status as “almost heaven” is a violation of the 1st Amendment’s establishment clause.

Wait a minute... I recognize this fursona. You're that guy Cody (or was it Tyler??) from alternate history mentioned a few times. Huh, finally watched one of your videos. Cool.

If you take the argument at 2:05 then maine is also illegitimate as it was just from massachusetts’s territory

I might have to challenge you on one thing. Had George W. Bush not flipped West Virginia in the 2000 election Al Gore would have been president.

Bring back Megavirginia

WV is completly lokated in the mountains, hard to get in, out or around it, sub-standart infrastructure... All of this makes it hard to govern. It's basicly the Afghanistan of the US. Also, I heard somewhere, that it is somewhat easier to get into it from Pennsylvania, because the mountains arent as steep there or something... Wouldn't it make more sense, merging these two, rather than the two Virginias? But what do I know, I'm European.

I imagine people in West Virginia have different interests that those in Virginia, so it’s probably better that it still exists. It just makes representation a little better

The CSA was far more illegal!

I knew that the state of Virginia was created during the Civil War but I didn't know that it might be illegal.

Have you ever been to West Virgina, its just a bunch of mountains with some roads painted on top

Well, the ‘two disputed counties’ used to be a singular county, and if I recollect correctly, at the time they were disputed.

We can exchange West Virginia for Puerto Rico statehood

Next video: why the whole United States might be illegal

*screams in Take Me Home, Country Roads*

Do any of the Erin Hunters know about your channel, to your knowledge? That would be kind of cool.

I actually propose a partition of West Virginia where counties will be given to surrounding states but West Virginia’s capital will be made into a separate city state of Kanawhaw

well considering Virginia illegally left the union technically it wasn’t a state anymore, so they made a new state out of conquered lands.

Constitution: "no new state shall be erected within the jurisdiction of any other state" Virginia: "We're not a state anymore. Bye." Congress: "Interesting."

Was there anything like article 4 section 3 in the confederacy's constitution? If not, I think west virginia would be constitutional at face value