Most companies would have just shrugged and let the game die after receiving this amount of community backlash. Fat Shark dropped the ball really bad here but they patched the game a lot and (arguably) fixed the expansion (weaves are still unplayable and the minotaur is imo too hard but those are minor things really) also Chaos Wastes was a fantastic expansion, it's a lot of fun and a great way to get good loot if you don't want to memorize book spawns on 300 different maps and it's free, if they wanted to add a couple new weapons and charge for it they easily could have. Vermintide almost died in 2019 but in 2021 I play it every day
Winds of Magic also failed on another standpoint; Cataclysm on release (and even today to some extent) Is over a double difficulty spike from Legend, whereas Champion to Legend is only about a ~40% difficulty bump (as is standard for most difficulties.) I mean twice as many enemies with most of them having twice as much stagger resistance, damage, and health. The only things that Cata did which took any effort was the Wave Horde system they implemented, where Hordes would come in 3 waves, starting with basic units (Slaverats/Zombies) to Medium Units mixed with Elites, to what we here in the cataclysm community sometimes refer to as the Wipe Wave, where the game will send anywhere between 6-20 plague monks at you mixed in with the elites/infantry from the other 2 waves. Everything else? Number tweaking - Pretty much all the raw number changes could probably have been done in an afternoon and released as a free patch and It'd buy them a crapton of goodwill. Instead, they slapped a €17 pricetag on It and the community resents them for it.
Yeah one of the main reasons I play Cata is because the numbers of enemies you encounter, but besides the fun element there's nothing to the difficulty. The loot is worthless. They spect you to pick books on Cata if you want good loot, but of course nobody will do that. And most of the players are still looking for red items or blue/purple skins that of course the game never delivers, so you play with bots on cata to win nothing and basically losing the multiplayer potential cause nobody wants to play cata.
@@pempotfoy6206 oof I wouldn't say that no one plays cata. You could technically also pick up all the books which some player do. Then you have good loot as well. Or you could do a cataclysm deed, which gives you granted chests with a little bit of fun extra. Oorr you could ppay with twitch activated (which is a lot easier than cata itself with some settings) and just collect all the loot dice from the dozens of monster you encounter, which gives you good chests as well. Nonetheless you are right no one plays cata because they want more loot. They play it because it is fun. And to finish it off... You DONT meed red items to play cata.. orange weapons are perfectly fine and you can play even higher difficulties flawlessly with them.
To me it boils down to the beastmen being just not fun at all to fight. They have totally bullshit reach that hit you despite your stagger/bash, have lots of health and resist to cleave. It's not fun to kill them, it's tedious. Also, not only do they hit you in the most bullshit ways, but they also hit like trucks...
The thing that annoys me most with beastmen is that literally any significant stagger you apply to them has them punted like 30 feet away. For all the mass and stagger res they supposedly have, they react to hits like a chaos warrior push-kicking Kerillian. Needless to say they end up in extremely awkward and unexpected positions - on top of the other issues like bullshit animations.
I don't know what's about beast men attacks but they are so hard to block, something just feels different about them and it really frustrates me because I like the faction but they are a pain in the ass
Exactly this, their headbutts and offhand punches still suffer from animation desync and hit you before the animation finishes. This also happens with their running attacks which makes you eat many more hits than you’d expect
I take probably like 50% more random hits from beastmen hordes even now compared to skaven/chaos. -They have some very quick and deceptive attacks (headbutt) which also happen to do very high damage -They have very dicey rangy spear thrusts which can sneak a hit in from beyond your weapon range if timed well -Personally I find their stagger animations very annoying, they stumble back out of range most of the time which makes following up quite difficult and increases the chance of sneaky hits getting past you when they approach again -Archers can still distract you or interrupt your movement opening you for attacks -Massed charging bestigors are very irritating and they will occasionally sneak under the radar if you are trying to locate/dodge multiple (more of a cata issue though) The only thing I actually like about beastmen is the banners which is an interesting mechanic IMO. The majority of it is just frustration and taking dubious hits you wouldn't vs the other factions.
@@JudoP_slinging I wish the Wargor had a huge rack of horns, he looks like everyone else in the horde so you be swinging away and randomly hit super armor😵💫
@@JudoP_slinging well I think the main problem with the archers is that they are really small and makes you waste ammo and the banners are awesome but when they start spamming one after another I just wanna throw my Xbox out of the window, not mentioning the banner only falls to specific attacks when it's just a piece of stick...
I picked it up just before Chaos Wastes dropped and months later I still really wish Beastmen could be straight up toggled off. I enjoyed the challenge in Dark Omen, but they're still frustrating to fight against when they show up in the other maps (or chaos wastes).
Good thing the last bit of the video turned out to be true, chaos wastes is an amazing expansion, granted that its also completely free, as a way to say "sorry" to the community. So yeah, Fatshark did learn from their mistakes.
Thanks for making this series. It’s great to see the enthusiasm for Vermintide! I purchased all the dlc for Vermintide 2 without any awareness of the game prior to early 2020. My experience with pieces of this dlc are as follows: -stagger and cleave mechanics (present now in the base game) added a wonderful depth to the combat. I love this! - beastmen are annoying but I do appreciate having more enemy types to fight. I could go either way on this one. -weaves are odd to get into and I hear the community for them is small. Best to get 3 friends and try them to see if you like them. -I don’t recall which weapons came with this expansion but I do appreciate having access to app the weapons.
Like what? Everytime I see that phrase for a game like Overwatch and Vermintide 2, I feel like people are asking for more things that are beyond the scope of the game.
@@samtemdo8 more mini bosses, more maps, SOME REAL NEW CUSTOMISATION OPTIONS THAT ARE NO DAMN CASH GRABS I think making cata open for everyone could really get more people playing cata. And then they could simply add similar things to the game like mods that are already existing.. Like higher difficulty level. Nevertheless, Im very happy about all the new stuff lately and as long as they keep fixing the bugs and problems It should be fine XD
I got the WoM on sale a few months before chaos wastes and had a go at the weaves. I found the whole system confusing and kept on asking myself "OK but why?" at a lot of the features. Chaos wastes dropped (and for free) and I thought to myself "now this is what winds of magic should have been". Fatshark aren't perfect but they seem to learn from their mistakes and seem to actually care about the player base, or at the very least making the game as fun as possible.
i dont really understand why we get beastmen on every other map and not on dark omen only. why not make them exclusive to that one single map? does it even make sense lore-wise to suddenly have a mixture of beastmen, chaos and skavens around? fighting beastmen is absolutely terrible. id rather fight monks and silver shiled infantry than a single beastman
Beastmen used to spawn much more frequently (partially due to a bug and partially due to intentional design), but this was changed so that they wouldn’t spawn in buildings (Convo of decay) and they wouldn’t spawn in towns. Lore wise it doesn’t make sense that they just suddenly appear in missions that we’ve had since launch but that’s just for gameplay purposes
Lore questions don't really make much sense considering that the characters seem to jump between multiple timelines (switching careers) and even backward in their shared timeline (replaying already completed missions). My answer is always that beastmen heard the sound of a slaughter from out in the woods and came to fight over the bones, like they always do.
That last sentence is a bit sketchy imo. They might have learned from their mistakes but hiding Cata behind a DLC ist still the most obnoxious and hideous things imaginable imo. Like its the only reason for the DLC at all. And its by far the most expensive one (even on sale) - its ridiculous.
the only reason its still acceptableish today is that it doesn't add any extra content to the game, only an extra challenge to those who want it. Technically you could just go to the modded realm and play legend DWONS if you wanted a challenge without having to pay for it. But I agree, it should be free and i have no idea why it still isn't.
Stagger mechanics are actually great now, letting you playing different playstyles and getting breakpoints (like staggering plague monks out of combo - feels good). Pre WoM mechanics was pretty dumb, you could dodge left/right all the time and nothing would ever hit you. Now combat is more tactical. Weaves need bots, without full team you just cant play it. Also its pretty weird that they throw you so fast into cataclysm +3 (cataclysm + 3 levels of higher difficulty) WITH weave difficulty itself, IMO cataclysm should start around weave 80-100, not weave 40. And all those awesome weaves weapon illusions - just let people use them after finishing weaves, and boy would people play it. Last but not least, having to level up and craft everything from the scratch... i have 1800 hours in V2, and i got to know around 1700h that i need to do 1 ranked weave to get athanor for every normal match. After 100h more its not a problem, i have more athanor than i could use, but yeah.
I do think the stagger changes were good additions to the game and made the game better overall, but I am aware you and I are in the minority with that since many still have issues with it (such as how poorly explained it is in the first place) Weaves in general needs a complete overhaul to make it better. More balanced scaling, bug fixes, remove the time limit, add extra rewards, extra.
Buy it when it's on sale for the weapons alone, expect nothing from the weaves gamemode, play it anyway and somehow still get disapointed, that's what I did.
If they could change/fix beastmen animation to not get headbutt when you just stagger them, no poke on you when you hit and kill the enemy 1st and make mino less a HP spong, it could be a fun faction. But right now, they're still way to frustrating and wish I can remove them from my game.
I would say that Winds of Magic is still not worth it. If it wasn't for Cataclysm, I would turn off the DLC. The beastmen are frustratingly punishing and more often than ANY other fraction just ignore your block. Clippity Cloppity your health is their property.
@@nihilisticpoet Go for the Chaos Wastes. Absolutely go for the Chaos Wastes if you can. It's really damn good. It might be the best if you get some experiences in the base game, such as movement, basic combat (when to engage, when to run back, when to block and when to dodge) before you go for the wastes. The wastes are pretty chaotic (no surprise) and they allow you to get perks/boons usually unobtainable for your class or mutally exclusive with another perk of the same tree. The wastes are fun and when you finish all 5 or 6 maps you get two chests guaranteed that have the best value for the difficulty. And a third one that scales up depending on how many coins you've pillaged, if you went through maps with curses or not. . . But yes, the chaos wastes are really good, but they need you to be familiar with the combat. They might even be the better alternative to start as your hero power is the only thing you take with you, meaning you can choose the weapon type and the perks you unlock but everything else is set to the same level, so not having leveled up weapons doesn't mean anything.
Agreed. Most of the modifier is frustrating and not fun. If you could at least take the skins to adventure mode that would be okay incentive, but you cant. Shame because they look awesome IMO.
Considering you can choose the modifiers on your weapon, I could see it being used to test builds... But problem with that is that the weaves all have special properties that make it hard to properly test the build.
@@Debilinside not even the skins??! wow... I get why the stats, but skins I see no reason for not letting u use them on the rest of the game's content lol.
It is worth noting that if Cataclysm difficulty had higher loot rewards than Legend difficulty, the accusations of Pay2Win-difficulty would still echo across the community. Personally I think having no "extra" loot on cataclysm is just fine. The loot system itself is at best, flawed and in dire need of reworks. Why? Because a lot of people I know have literally hundreds if not thousands of boxes stored in their inventories and opening them is such a damn hassle.
Yup, I have hundreds and only open when I want to try for a new red on a specific character. Fat shark needs to make it so you can open 5-10 at a time and skip the animation.
I just got VT2 last week, but it sounds like Fat Shark didn't really change much after seeing how they handled Darktide. The game came out in pretty much the same state as the beta and they don't listen to the community. :/
I feel like I get hit like crazy by beastmen and I’m not totally sure why, whereas I don’t have that experience with chaos or skaven. I’ve never even bothered with weaves tbh. Idk they aren’t as fun to fight to me as chaos or skaven.
Beastmen suffer from animation desync which causes them to hit you sooner than their animation shows, so its not just you. I also agree that they're not as fun to fight as chaos and skaven are, fatshark really did drop the ball with them since they could've been so much more.
I am new to VT2 and honestly new to this genre since I have severe motion sickness playing FP games but this one, I overcame it just to play. Now beastmen... I wish I could delete them. I find Chaos waste to be my comfort zone. Its fun, I dont have to worry about builds or even item actually. Then came the chest and you see "Bestigor Warherd" after opening it on a small place or areas with out of bounds corners. Then you see 10 or more flagbearers on it on Legend along with the charging Bestigor and the trash mobs that has a lot of HP and stagger resistance. On Cata, I really tell my mates on quickplay to skip chest when there's beastmen on the map since its too difficult if we get beastmen with flagbearers or the Mino. The disappointment you get after playing so well for an hour or more and get wiped by beastmen is just bitter. I would say skill issue if we get wiped by vermins or northlanders but beastmen, its okay to lose. They are just BS.
The biggest problem with WoM is that there is no carry over to the main game. They could have made the weapon skins achievable. They could have had new skins/effects that represented the different magics ( think flames, little lightning bolts, purple auras etc etc) instead all you can achieve is a frame .... Like come on fatshark wtf
Fatshark made an incredible game (we're talking about vt2 only here) but for some reason they wont take any C&C. I feel like they community feedback is terrible, I can count with the fingers of one hand the times that a problem pointed by the community was actually addressed. Im not trying to hate on FS, but how is hyperdensity a thing still? assassins insta jumping, pack masters doing a 180 before hooking you, CWs ice skating (as well as berzerkers and other units). And the one that bugs me the most, the change of lighting on CoD. These are all problems that we have been pointing for years, but still no response. If a dev reached out and said "Hey, actually the change of lighting in the final event of Convocation of Decay is part of the difficulty" I would be like "okay thats BS, but at least I got a response". I believe that they can make a great game, all my hopes are on Darktide. I think they will take all that they learned from vt1-2 to make a more mature and polished game that they will actually take care of. But its just sad to see vt2's state even tho they say that they planned to support it for a long period of time...
Back to ubersriek adds 4 new levels and 5 new great weapons and is all all around solid DLC for its price. Shadows is ok since it adds 2 new maps and some weapon skins but the second map is kind of annoying
Just buy all the dlc if you put hours into this game. I bought all of it on g2a and it cost me under 20 usd for all of it. They send you the steam keys. The weapons you get to unlock makes it worth it. Plus cata difficulty. And the ability to play fortunes of war.
Started playing this game recently and i am at power 330+ with a grail knight so im just curious what i should buy since im tempted to buy the cosmetic dlc or/and back to uber
Hey JTC. So me and my bro are new to V2, (tho i had played it back in 2019 and fell off). But now we are both playing have having such a great time. Ill heed your advice and get the other first 2 DLCs first before this one. But it sounds like its a lot better off now by November 2021 than it was and a purchase in the simple mindset of More content and things to do isn't an issue like before? And maybe with a Sale on the DLC it would be worth a go? :)
It had rough start, long patching and balancing, but its fine at this time. Beastmans are no longer OP, just diferent and dangerous. (As they should be.) I still do have PTS from pre-patch "Dark omens" thou ... -_-
@@jtcLIVE It would be kinda unfair to say, that the other two factions are bugless :) I saw quite a few crazyness from them too. Besides, beastmens are the true childrens of the Ruinous Powers. I can tolerate few ocurring bugs from the most corrupted and twisted race of WH Fantasy :D Everyone knows Skavens for yeeeears, their units practicaly weren't changed (i am not complaining) compared to V1 (+flame, monks and weaves-unique barell rats). And chaos is almost the same. Bit tougher, different specialists + CWs, but thats it. Weak "slave" close range melee units; meatier "clan" close range melee units; "elite" slower, longer range heavy hiting units; "berserk" crazy unarmored close range melee dmg. Beastmans aren't copy pasted roles. And i like the Fatshark for not going by the same way with them, they "tested their metal" on them. Spears and a lot of bows (long range, *ranged* dmg) on the "slave" units; charging elites, banners. To call beastmans "irritating" is probably good choice of word. But the same would apply for the word "dangerous", "challenging" or "different". I may be in the minority, but i (kinda) like them :)
I do agree with most you say. But to expect an indiegame developer to release DLC with no "bugs", as a game developer myself, im amazed that people actually expect bug free stuff at launch
I dunno if around 200ish experienced dev team size could be called "indie" anymore.... but sure. I believe what the point that was on this video is about how they make a beta for feedback and then they released the product without taking into account any of the feedback that was given (making player's time totally wasted not only playing and testing but also writing down feedbacks essays) and then backpedal and listing to the already mentioned feedback once they got all the negative reviews. SO it wasn't about expecting a "bug free" product but more of "you left the bugs we reported you, left the balancing issues we reported you, and on top of all that added a bunch of more issues"
@@GatsuRage And once again, im not trying to defend the company. But if you think that just because you report a bug, it magically disapears then you are wrong. Some bugs can take 100 of pages of code to rework, or worse the game engine can have some limits that means you have to start from scratch. Not to mention all the new bugs that comes when you rewrite the code. This makes me feel like, you probaly never developed a game before, and have no idea about what you are talking about. What im trying to say is that i can almost guarentee you (without knowing) that they worked on this from the day they got the reports. Should they have delayed the release date? probaly. but expecting a release to be bug free is stupidity, and last time i checked stupidity was not a right
I’ve got to say, I’m watching this video on January 28. Didn’t play VT2 much at the time, so I don’t remember the drama. I believe it is ironic that FatShark has for the most part repeated their WoM mistakes in Darktide. Darktide is not a mess of imbalanced and unfinished gameplay, but the beta didn’t bring many changes and so far they haven’t really addressed the feedback, but hopefully they will soon (don’t count the non-apology letter). As for WoM, it’s skippable, but when it’s on a decent sale it’s not that bad, the weapons are not essential, but most of them are useful, everyone besides Bardin got a good weapon really. A couple of them can be considered “the best” for a purpose (spear and shield and billhook)
I was considering it just mainly for the weapons but I dunno anymore if at least it could carry over the progression of this dlc onto the regular game mission MAYBE but everything on this dlc is it's own thing (aside the new weapons) on a sale is not that expensive but I could get all of the other expansions dlcs instead for the same price of just this one so... even less incentive for me to buy it. On top of all that I fought the beast man in the other game modes that are free and the mintour (boss) still feels broken AF with huge hitboxes that can't be dodged or kite (at least I couldn't maybe cos m plain bad) so adding that into the regular game's missions seems like is going to be a pain more then an enjoyable experience (and as far as I can tell u can't turn this off once u buy the dlc? maybe unistalling the dlc? but bye weapons if I do that lol) I dunno maybe in the future ill get it just for the sake of it as it'll be the only thing I will be missing. Thanks for the video!
A little update, they managed to break the endless bombs potion in chaos wastes. If you give it to another player, your character *will break.* You cannot attack, use career skills or swap weapons, only walk. If the other player gives you the potion back they will break the same way you did, but your character will get fixed. Ten out of ten good job.
Vermintide has absolutely beautiful and impactful fights, aesthetics of the game as well as whole lore of Warhammer is brilliant! so much so that i don't think there's alternative to this game that done it better and i think it's only reason it has fanbase. Overall fighting mechanics in this game isn't good, whole movement system is pretty bad too, your enemy gas aimbot, you can dodge in full plate armor while you can't sprint, stamina isn't stamina but just defence meter. So many things are off about this game but so many things are state of the art. P.S. Fatshark learn from their mistakes... Proceeds to release grossly pay to enjoy, broken, half baked game 😂
I saw other players had two extra slots for paintings in the Festa underneath a painting, but I could not find out how to get thus extra space. Any help? Pleeease 🥺🥺🥺
I only bought all the DLC a few months ago when they were on 75% sales for about £20 total. Even though I love the game and played 500 hours, I would not have payed full price because of the way Fatshark ignores its playerbase and it's cosmetic DLC being separate from gameplay DLC. The time it took to fix basic problems, plus many problems still exist in the game makes players constantly quit and never come back. Many things make it way too hard (beastmen, legend/cata difficulty spike, quickplay connecting to 150+ ping) or way too easy (stagger on bosses, OP DLC weapons and careers, skaven) that could be fixed quite quickly but stay in the game for months. The launch game had terrible talents balance and some unfinished levels. The xp grind on weaves is insane if you like to use every weapon. Every DLC seems to have a different business model, some more generous than others. All of this inconsistency makes being a fan of the game very frustrating, considering how high production quality the graphics, sound and action gameplay are.
How do you know beastmen suffer from desync animations? We've all been hit before and wondered "where did that come from?" I'm curious if there is a way to prove this, so it may be shown to Fatshark and fixed.
Fatshark’s won’t ever be fixing beastmen, since their response to hearing the complaints about beastmen were to just nerf their spawn rate significantly instead of addressing the core issues with them in the first place
@@jtcLIVE Yes that was the ultimate result. I still wonder if there is a way to take a gameplay video and break it down frame by frame and watch for when you take damage and compare it to the beastmen attack animation. If nothing else, it would be interesting to know the time discrepancy between the two things.
I don't know how much Fatshark learnt to be honest, Darktide is sitting at mixed reviews as of the time I'm writing this, and it doesn't have nearly as much content as you'd expect for a Tide game, of course it only came out recently so take it with a grain of salt, and from what I hear VT2 was a mess at launch. PS: I still hate that now I get beastmen in every campaign, I would've preferred more chapters so they could be exclusive to that campaign +weaves, rather than being everywhere
Beast men are still overtuned, but tolerable nowadays if you ignore the minotaur. Cataclysm is a fun challenge to break up the monotony if legend gets too easy, with some changes under the hood besides enemies dealing more damage and getting more health which keeps it interesting. Hard, but a competent group will still breeze through it. Adding difficulty after that is as simple as playing twitch mode and messing with vote times and whether you get beneficial votes or not. Weaves are an abomination before god still, only masochistic egotistical assholes like myself do it to get a little cosmetic that tells people you have no life but are skilled at cheesing the game. In the next paragraph I rant on an enemy I sincerely still wish would simply be removed from the game. (or turned into a one-off fight like the lords.) Just to break down the average minotaur fight, you will be block broken and hit if you have no extra skills giving you better block or higher stamina regen. It has an extremely agressive moveset that prevents it from being kited in place. Normally, when a boss switches aggro to another player, they at least have to play a short animation where they turn towards you. There is even a little stinger that plays for you if the aggro is switched to you specifically. For the mino, the stinger is present, but he just flips 180 degrees with no animation, often mid-attack. Almost impossible to block or dodge on reaction, good luck when you aren't hosting. When the other bosses do that, it's merely a bug, but with the mino it happens every time. On top of all that, if you make too much distance with aggro from the mino, it will charge you. This attack is unblockable even with shields, unique among bosses. It can be dodged, but it has pretty tight timing; good luck with that if much else is going on. Fuck minotaurs, Fatshark can actually go fuck themselves leaving a broken enemy like that in the game. The whole appeal of vermintide 1 and 2 for me is that with enough knowledge of how the game works and enough skill, you can consistently solo a game meant to be played by 4 people. No bullshit, you die it was your own poor judgement that caused it, not the game. Minotaurs, the weaves, and for awhile beast men in general threw that out the window. When darktide releases, the only thing that will keep me from buying it is if I go to some stream or youtube video and watch some gameplay and I see that a reskinned, unfixed minotaur is in the game. Playing the game modded isn't much of an option unless I want to solo the game, because nobody fucking plays modded realm except groups of friends as a one-off. With all that out of the way this game is still fun as fuck. Nothing else scratches quite the same itch for me, and judging by the relatively large amount of people sticking with it, i'm not the only one that feels this way. Why I chose to leave this essay on a year old video that youtube decided to recommend today is beyond my comprehension.
@@pempotfoy6206 bardin got throwing axes which are really good for slayer and kerrilian got spear and shield which is like the only weapon worth using for handmaiden
@@Hardcore_Hybrid throwing axes are a meme. That said flaiming flail and tuskgor spear are both great weapons and the billhook is saltzspyres best melee weapon overall. Flaiming flail and billhook also count among the weapons that scale the best into modded difficulties.
The fat shark of 2019 is not the fat shark of 2021, but they are the fat shark of 2023. If anyone needs me to qualify this statement then they've not been paying attention to the company for the last two years
I wish they would've stayed far away from Chinese corporations, now i can't buy their games. P. S: i think vermintide 1 was a superior game or at least as good as v2.
The beastmen will spawn at random in other maps, whether you bough the DLC or not (probably depends on if the host has the DLC). I bought this DLC on sale for the new map (Dark Omens), which is quite good, and the new weapons (Throwing Axes is a gamechanger for Slayer and the Flaming Flail is so much fun on Unchained). I haven't played the Weaves at all, but maybe I'll give it a try. Same with Cataclysm (and I agree it shouldn't be tied to the DLC).
Yes you should buy it, it's not a bad dlc, just a bunch of morons parroting the same shite over and over. The popular opinion isn't always the right one.
