If the punishment for wickness is eternal punishment and Jesus took the punishment for us, then why is Jesus not being eternally punished in hell? The original text of the Bible does NOT support eternal punishment. Bad translations do.
Because He is God. Our suffering does not mean much, everyone of our suffering, do not compare, when we are talking about the suffering of a God. It is like if you give up your arm to an ant, you are more important than an ant, your arm loss is a bigger sacrifice than the death of a thousand ants.
@@jonathanbenoza8136Yes, Jesus is God but yet He was still killed on the cross and went through a tremendous amount of pain in the process. If, as God, Jesus can suffer pain on the cross, He could suffer pain in hell as well, especially if suffering in hell is the punushment for sin that He bore for us
@@jonathanbenoza8136Yes, Jesus is God but yet He was still killed on the cross and went through a tremendous amount of pain in the process. If, as God, Jesus can suffer pain on the cross, He could suffer pain in hell as well, especially if suffering in hell is the punushment for sin that He bore for us.
Not a convincing argument. Eternal torment seems an unreasonable punishment for stealing a loaf of bread. Even the scriptures speak of eye for an eye, and tooth for tooth, where the punishment is to fit the crime. That finite beings commit finite sins, yet requiring infinite punishment, seems to violate the Lord's own lesson on punishment. It would make stealing the loaf of bread punishable by being slowly burned at the stake.
@@itskarl7575 Good morning, yes well rejecting Christ, is rejecting the way to God and going to be with him after death. Why we can't change our minds after we die I don't know. But you have an opportunity now, Why wait
He'll isn't eternal, the wicked perish. The second death. You ceased to exist, youre not granted immortality. Only righteous will inherite immortality. It's not too late to come to Christ.
@@warriorsofchrist1_342 The wicked do not perish for all eternity. There is no point for there to be second death that is the same as the first death. The second death is the death of Adam in all us. The death of the man of sin.
It is not evil. He loves you Infintely, and is Eternally Holy and is the Righteous Judge, and it is impossible for Him to do wrong. So it is just no matter how much a person cannot accept it in his finite mind. I have to rebuke you in Jesus Name so that I maynot be a partaker in blasphemy, no hate towards you though and I hope you ask God to reveal Himself and His Love for you and you sincerely repent from saying it. God is Love and His Judgement is not evil. He revealed Himself to me in a vision looking down upon me on the cross and I felt His Love for me and started crying and realised my sinfulness before Him.
Frank doesn't comprehend infinity. Nobody does, really, but he comprehends it even less than most. Sure, punishments usually last longer than how long it took to commit the crime - but that's not relevant, because even if you punished someone a trillion years for stealing a grape, that would still be finite time compared with finite time. _Infinity_ is infinitely longer than _any_ amount of time, and so there can be no comparison. Secondly, whether the crime was committed against a finite or infinite being is completely irrelevant. The _crime_ is still finite, committed by a finite being with no understanding of infinity. For an infinite being to punish a finite being _as if_ that being was on an equal footing (ie. infinite) is unjust. Thirdly, why on earth would anyone keep rejecting the eternal being in hell? In hell they would have proof positive of that eternal being, and they would naturally repent. There is no rhyme or reason to the notion that anyone should keep sinning in hell. By that logic, the people in heaven would keep sinning eternally as well, because even if they commit just one tiny little thought-sin once every 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, that still accumulates to an _infinite_ amount of sins over an infinite amount of time. If his position is that people in Heaven do not sin because they are now in a state of grace, why not bestow this state of grace on the people in hell? After all, this state of grace is the only thing from preventing the people in heaven from sinning _every bit as much_ as the people in hell (because that's how infinity works), meaning that over an infinite period of time, neither group is any better than the other - except that God has arbitrarily decided to bestow a state of grace on _one_ of the groups, for arbitrary choices made during an extremely limited window of time on Earth. And it's not like Heaven and Hell are the only possibilities, either. What about non-existence? What's wrong with that? Non-existence is, by definition, _infinitely_ more just than infinity of either Heaven or Hell.
I agree to some extent. What I believe that some people really choose to go to hell and even in hell chose to stay there. But here's the other side. Isn't it that those people reject god because they think he sends people to hell and the fact that they in hell and experience hell is evidence for them that God is not good. So many people reject god because they don't have the right understanding about God, the bible, eternity, and so on.. If everyone on earth who ever lived had the same knowledge about who god is and what he does or doesn't, how to be saved and end up rejecting god that would be fair outcome. Some Christian often say. Well people choose to reject god. God doesn't send people to hell. I would answer " Thats what you think and what you know but why doesn't everyone on earth has the same knowledge? Did you ever asked why they reject god in the first place?" For me the problem can't be solved. It's a chicken egg problem.
@@levimark548 If God made himself manifest before me, and it was the God of the Bible, then I would be as firmly convinced that God is _not_ good, as I would be that I would scrape and bow to avoid incurring his wrath. Love is not the only thing that motivates devotion: fear can do the same. So I would do whatever it took to stay out of hell, and if in hell, I would do whatever it took to get out of there, if I found it the least bit unpleasant. Some atheists like to say how they would stand up to God and confront him with his offences, but I think they would be considerably meeker if actually faced with such a terrifying being.
Thomas B True, torture is way different than torment... These are the only 2 scriptures I found that mentions the ‘t’ word: Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 Verse Concepts And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Think about it like this; you owe 1,000,000 dollars to the bank. They've brought you to court and now you have no option but to pay for your debt. Your not paying for anyone else's debt but your own. If you owe that much in debt, you can't just say "Oh, I'm sorry," and your debt goes away. You have to pay it. A man comes into the courtroom and says, "I'll pay off your debt." Now at this point, you have two choices. You either let this man pay what you owe OR you find a way to pay it yourself. You either let Christ pay for all the terrible things you've done what OR you pay for what you've done. Don't be upset because you have to pay.
So that would mean all sins are equal, if we use your context, and we all can agree that it is unreasonable for theft and murder to be on the same level of punishment though.
You wilfully screw up and sin against a holy eternal God, so the punishment is just. You choose to reject God when he offers so great a salvation. You go to hell for rejecting salvation and rebel against God. Your choice.
Weather its okay or not that's what's happening. There's no point moaning about it. If I were you just live in obedience to Christ He is able to help you if you are willing as He cares for you.
@@tomgarrison5313 what?? We don’t even know if god is real? You’re acting like we KNOW god is real and we are rejecting him. No. I simply don’t believe he is real? Because there is no 100% proof in anything so I don’t know what is the truth. That’s not willingly rejecting god. If I knew god was real and I stilled sinned THEN it would make sense.
@@tomgarrison5313 we are put here against our will, I didn’t ask to be out into this situation. Not only that but god puts us in a world where we don’t even know if he is real where there is thousands of different beliefs and thousands of things that could be true and on top of that he makes all of us differently so we all understand things and see things differently and then I’m told if I don’t 100% believe in this thing that I don’t know is real or not then I go to hell for eternity??? Think about that for a second bro it makes no sense
There are a number of terms that western culture has simply redefined. A word is only as good as the context in which it is found. Consider the word death. God told Adam that if he ate the fruit he would die, yet he was having children long after he did just that, and again scripture says that these children were born dead. Not how most people understand the word. Some people want to resolve this apparent contradiction by making Adam and Eve allegorical, but Jesus referred to them in an historical sense. He also said that he had come in order that we would have abundant life. Again in a western use of the term one is either alive, or dead percentage doesn’t come into it, but clearly biblically speaking it does. Other words like faith, and sin have also seemingly adopted meanings in today’s language that simply don’t fit there biblical use. People equate faith with belief, which it is not. Scripture says faith is a gift from God, that comes about by the hearing of His voice. How can a person that speaks WITH God then say I believe. You had better either know, or see a doctor. How can we as Christians speak of belief, and relationship in the same breath. I have a relationship with my wife, I would never refer to her as a belief. No wonder atheists think we talk to an invisible sky daddy. If I spoke of my wife in the same terms, I have no double people would begin to suspect I had an imaginary wife. I can assure you, that every Christian has spoken with, not to, or at, WITH God. That is how one becomes Christian that is where faith comes from, and why a person would be willing to die rather that forgo that relationship, knowing it goes beyond the grave. Jesus said my sheep know my voice. Belief is man centered, and every man has them. They are often very dear, but even though we hate to admit it, we do know deep down we could be wrong. What then would that say about God. What then does it say about people that claim Him by belief. Yes you do well to say so, but even the demons, do more because they know Him and tremble. Sin is defined by most persons as bad things we do, and often this has led to works based theologies. If only we acted better God would love us more; but that is not what sin is. We don’t sin by doing bad thing we do bad thing because we are sinners. It is what we are, just as much as it is true that we are humans. The condition is 100 percent inherited, and 100 percept fatal. Miners took canaries down into the mines because they knew the bird would die from the gas that might accumulate before they would. Similarly sin targets the spirit of man before the body. Scripture makes it clear that physical death is the inevitable outcome, but as long as we think of ourselves as fleshy computers we are never going to be able to comprehend the true nature of sin. Consider just one example, love. Some say they love their car, or cat. Some think sex is love. Others that love can be unconditional, and that is the best kind of love to have, but in fact it is the only kind of love that actually is love. People do not go to hell for things they did, or didn’t do, they go because just as fish live in water, they have their proper place, and hell is what they make of it, both by their own nature, and by the lack of all goodness that ultimately emanates from God. There is a lot of focus on the sexual orientation of people these days, and whether, or not God loves them. He does, His love is perfect, unconditional as love must be. No one can do something so wrong, or right, that it would change Gods love. He’s God and that’s His nature. It may be hard to hear, but some people find children sexily stimulating, there seems to be no difficulty in society concerning their appetites, whether, or not God loves them; no one even asks the question. I’m sure though that He does. Anyone that loves, hates sin, because sin destroys life. I'm married, but I have never found other women less attractive as a result of being so. I knew I was a week man, I knew given the opportunity of temptation I would jump in with both feet, but I took my vows very seriously, and that presented a problem. I'm a sinner. Not what I do, what I am. I like everyone of you was born this way. Maybe you like boys instead of girls, I have always liked girls enough for both of us. When I was five, I liked girls. when other boys where running screaming cuties, I liked girls. You might say I couldn't help myself, its the way God made me,( wow reality check), but I didn't like being hungry, and because love is unconditional, God loves me and He was willing to help me to be more. He did help me to be more, and yes at times I think what if, and then I look at Elvis, and thank God for all the grace He has shown me, and hope He has more. If you love your nature, God will let you go. If you love Him, He will give you a new nature, because while love must always be unconditional, relationship never can be.
Thank you. Although your response was a little difficult to follow, you make some excellent points about the true vs the adulterated pop culture understanding of sin, death and the fact that its all about who you choose to be, Godly or fallen, and the consequences of that choice.
@@alexs7671 Alex I am sorry if I was not clear, my point was that much of what we take in from Scripture in English is misunderstood so it would be Ironic if in the attempt to point that out I also was. My greatest angst forms around the term faith and how this key to salvation is tossed about even in Christian circles. For context I point to Matthew 8:25-26 there are other passages naturally but I think this is sufficient to make the point. People will often make the claim….believe and confess and you are saved….I would agree that every person with faith believes, but is belief faith? and if not is it enough? So here is what Yashua had to say concerning faith and believing …. And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish. And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. I would say from this text that the disciples clearly believe…they are in a storm they have done all they can do the boat is going down and they know they are all about to die… So they wake Him….they trust He can do something to save them …if not why ask? and this is a BIG ask. I think for most people this is an example of great faith… He rebukes them. I wrote the original comment to point out that what we often assume to be true from the words we read and the meaning we pour into them isn’t and we need to find the truth in context… With regard to Faith in particular as it is the key to the door we must pass through, to salvation. People need to grasp this is a gift from God the Father When Yashua says no man can come except the Father draw him it is to Faith He is referring; and not something they can find in a church or even in scripture. They need to understand that without faith they can in no way enter into the kingdom….people love to talk about grace but grace is apprehended through faith. For by grace are you saved through faith. Alex I hope this if nothing else is clear to you brother and I hope you can see the need yourself for it being clear. Faith comes from God the Father as His gift to men and we are told in scripture again if we dig down that this gift of faith is received as a result of encountering Him. We say God bless. This is the first and greatest of blessings. You and yours be well in God Alex.
This reasoning makes no sense. An eternal God knows BEFORE WE CAME TO BE exactly how we are going to be. That is imperfect, will sin, will do wrong, etc. And that God will then judge us on that after he made us this way. And then decides to punish us eternally for the way he designed us. Where is the justice in that?
And in the Bible it said he knew us before we were made which means he wrote exactly how we would be. This includes all our sins and faults. This is supported for the fact that Jesus' sacrifice for our sins could be fully paid. Therefore God already knows which ones of us are going to be with him and which ones are not before we were made. Guess he needed those who weren't to ensure those he wanted to be shaped so they will. Great for those he chose to be with him, sucks for those that were not.
So the eternal punishment is not about what we do as sin, rather a way for God to ensure those that he chose will remain with him through negative reinforcement.
Mark Pettit. Its even worse if we had no free will (not saying we don't) It would mean we had no choice but to commit the crime and go to eternal damnation (over punishment another issue I have with God, he is not just).
Every single soul, who has even a bit of righteous and loving sense in their soul, knows that torturing someone forever has nothing to do with justice, love or mercy, yet by the very definition, God is just, loving and merciful. So either we have a crystal clear contradiction in the Bible or we understand it wrong way.
Thank You Niko..Idk if your a Christian but we need to drop ECT like its Hot Potato if we're going to reach the world.... In its original and translated language such a concept is NOWHERE
Frank's arguments are flawed. A finite being getting eternal torment for offending an infinite being is already unfair. An ant cannot have the same strength and endurance as a human being. They were made different. Giving an ant the same amount of pain as your size for biting you is already unjust. People continuing to sin in hell is because they are forced to. The circumstances force them to. Frank's argument does not stand examination. The souls are not choosing to sin in hell, it's the fire and torture that forces to keep sinning. In other cases, they cannot even control their own movements; their limbs move on their own. Surely someone who is drinking lava would want to stop. How many times have they not cried for mercy? How many times have they not wanted to escape hell? If you were subjected to constant pain, at some point you would curse and swear as well. That's because the impurity is in you and it's coming out. The "fire" is causing it to come up. But eventually the impurity is going to be exhausted; it has to come to an end. So, it's not fair to keep torturing a person because in hell they keep sinning due to the circumstances. The essence of justice is balance. Eternal torment does not have balance. Even life sentence in prison has an end when the person dies. So, the correct position should be that the souls either get annihilated or at some point they will come out of the punishment. Eternal torment does not serve any purpose. And because we know God does not do anything without purpose, the doctrine does not hold. Truth can be examined and it will stand the test. Some of you defend the notion that children should trust their parents. There is a place for trust and there is a place for understanding. God will not leave His children without understanding forever. Because understanding is part of growth and maturity. It's OK to ask questions. Sometimes people come up with some absurd arguments to explain things they don't understand. But justice is not hard to understand.
Thank you for your response, I am having trouble reconciling eternity in Hell, not for my sake, but I would feel terrible knowing there are souls in there. It is I will be in hell itself, feeling it, just by imagining it exists.
Do we doubt that God is not powerful and wise and loving enough to redirect and correct ALL of His straying children, even if it includes giving them afterlife punishments to purge and purify them for an age or a season? God wants all to be saved, and He will get everything He wants - The Bible says God will not keep His anger forever, but it says His mercy will be forever. It says all flesh will come to Him, the spirit of all will return to God who gave it, Rev 5:13, all created beings will eventually give praise to God in worship, Psalm 66:4, All the earth shall worship You And sing praises to You; They shall sing praises to Your name.” Selah 1 Cor 15:28 God will finally be "All in all", Act 3:21 God will restore everything, everyone. Rev 21 God says "Behold, I make all things new!" Death will be destroyed, which is the last enemy, so there will be no more death, no more second death, no more hell, which was included in the second death, hell will be no more. God desires all to be saved, He has the power to change our hearts, He will do everything He desires according to Isaiah 46:10. We all know God forgives those who repent in this life, why do we think God cannot forgive those who repent in the afterlife, if God desires to forgive them, if it is His will to forgive and save them in the afterlife? Who would or could stop Him if He desires to save us all? Both the Bible and the Koran state that His mercy triumphs over His judgement. Glory to God! Let us love God and show kindness to all to please Him so corrections and harsh punishments are not necessary in our future. All will be revealed, all will be restored by the Almighty! His mercy endures forever, Jesus came to take away the sins of the world, God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
When trying to know and or understand God it is necessary to try and look at it in His point of view. Let's try this question in the other direction. Why would He give us eternal salvation for trying to be faithful here on earth for a small period of time? God bless you all
Yes very true... and also a good idea to flip around other questions like " Why does God allow bad things to happen? the world is so terrible." The world is also very beautiful and why does God allow beautiful things to happen?
@@jamesemerson4102 Christ gave us the greatest example of how we should act and think not only in Himself but also in children. He said that their character reflects the kingdom of God. A child doesn't question his parents. He deposits all his trust in them and is desiring to be discipline, guided, loved, by his parents. There is no malice in his heart and is fast to forgive. An answer to why there is so much evil in this world and why does God allow it as so many people ask, and some ask trying to blame Him, is that when God created man He created Him desiring to be loved honored and be respected. Just as a husband and a wife have children they have them out of love and are not thinking that that child is going to grow up a murder or thief or disrespectful etc. They provide and nurture him with love. The problem is not with God it's with us. We fail to do right before God so this world is in a mess full of evil. The grace and mercy of God is still available for everyone today if they decide to repent and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins to be added to Christ's Church which is God's book of life, His mind. God bless
Consider the parable of the landowner and the worker. The landowner set the wage at one denarii. No matter how long you worked. If u worked all day or u worked 1 HR. 1 denarii. The wages of sin are also fixed. The wages of sin is DEATH. Christ accepted this wage and gave us the free gift of eternal life instead. But whether you are King Leopold or someone who lied to get off the phone if you don't accept Christ death is what u will get. Not eternal suffering. This is not what the scriptures say. Death is the wages of sin. Now some people may not think that's fair but that's another discussion. But the scriptures are clear.
@@QMicAnticsallday Hi Charlie. The parable of the owner of the vineyard is about no matter if you where a christian 50 years or 25 years or 1 year then either you died or Christ appeared a second time heaven will be the same for all 3. No one will get a better piece of heaven for working more as heaven is all the same. When it talks about death being the wages of sin Rom 6:23 it's talking about sin being given death which is an eternal seperation from God's grace. And that's hell. Death means seperation. Eternal means eternal wether you are in heaven or you are in hell.
I can't believe he can say this so casually. It's so disgusting. Jesus said if your child ask you for bread, would you give him a stone instead? How MUCH MORE will your Heavenly Father give you His Spirit. He gives Himself to us. Jesus shows that God is a billion times better than us but this man just made God a billion times more cruel than us. How is that good news.
The Bible clearly states that those in hell will blaspheme the name of God for all eternity. It says that they blame God ( that's what gnashing of teeth means. they grind their teeth in fury while blaming Christ ) for where they are and their punishment. Instead of blaming themselves for rejecting Jesus Christ.
So the Bible has already predicted what people with "free will" are going to do for all eternity... funny isn't it? Where does it begin? If we are going to be consistent here it begins in the womb, since your direction is constantly being shaped by the past.
@@slimjim1042 everything that's going to happen from The book of Revelation and even unto Heaven and the was already done before Christ created the heavens and the Earth.
@@bigcountrymountainman9740 So the purpose of all existence is for souls to be created, put in a sinful world, tested by arbitrary circumstances that lead them to a predetermined destiny of eternal joy or eternal sorrow? I think you're better than to believe this. We all are. Why do you believe this?
@@slimjim1042 You clearly have free will. Choosing one thing or another. Truth is true. Since God doesn't need time, he can see how the free will of people shaped their destiny. Right now, we're 3D beings. If he created robots, that wouldn't be love. If you have problems with this, then why you're even here forcing your opinion on others? And God even reaches out to you, right now. But you have the free will to choose Him. There are no excuses. Just because you cannot see beyond things and won't accept Truth, doesn't mean that others can't or won't. Your ignorance will eventually lead to your downfall in eternity, if you keep doing what you are doing.
@@e.s.g.5997 Events that shape your psychology may very well prime you to tend a certain way. If you're introduced to crime at a young age, for example, you have a much greater likelihood of falling into that lifestyle and being so buried under its weight that the odds of redemption grow dimmer and dimmer. Think about what Jesus said "to he who has, more will be given, but from those who have little even what they have will be taken away" (Paraphrased). That is the positive or negative cycle that man may fall into. If God wanted to play his biblical drama with an unconscious robotic race, it would be a lot more sensible. It certainly makes more sense than doing all this with living, breathing, thinking, feeling human beings and telling them it's _moral_ for some to spend an eternity in heaven or hell because of God's predestined plan. There is still a raging debate about the life of the historical Jesus. The truth is that the more you research and more academic you get, the harder it is to be certain about these events. You can't reasonably expect people with their own unique backgrounds, biases, and information exposure to make a heaven and hell choice based on a raging debate in a confused world. Lol @ I'm the one forcing my views on others. I won't even bother responding to that one.
At about 0:58, you say that a person's 'Eternal Rejection' is what keeps them in Hell, so this implies that anyone still in Hell has the option to still 'choose' your god. In that case, if it is a place of Fire, Brimstone, and Punishment, why would anyone stay?
And If that's not the case, then I must say; I've done nothing wrong by my reckoning. Or, atleast, nothing deserving of Jail-time, let alone an Eternity of Endless Suffering, though supposedly your god disagrees. Frankly the whole 'a crime done against an Eternal being is deserving of Eternal punishment' thing is just strange. Is your god not capable of getting over the fact that people masturbate? Well I guess he _is,_ but you have to go through this whole rigmarole of letting his Son, who is also Him, 'into your heart' (whatever that means) which is just seems arbitrary, frankly. An all powerful god wouldn't need such a convoluted method to do something as simple as _'forgive'_ someone.
@@redacted6813 I am a Christian of over 30 years and there is no rational argument for such an outrageous doctrine. I belief in ultimate reconciliation, in Christ, like the majority of the early church.
Enough with this "Holy Being" nonsense. God's described as a Father, not an almighty tyrant. If you want to follow a sadistic deity then start praying to Anubis or Odin or some other made up god. God is Holy but He's also just and ECT is not just.
NO! WHAT purpose would God have for tormenting people forever? This is blatant false doctrine. The soul that sins shall DIE. Not "the soul that sins shall be tormented forever." Psalm 21:9 “You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; the LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, and the fire shall devour them.” Psalm 37:10 “For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, but it shall be no more.” Isaiah 1:28 “And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.” Obadiah 1:16 “For as you drank on My holy mountain, so shall all the nations drink continually; yes, they shall drink, and swallow, and they shall be as though they had never been.” The idea of people being tormented eternally contradicts God’s promise of putting a complete end to pain. Nahum 1:9, “What do ye imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.” Every tongue WILL confess. This is the horror and torment. The complete and utter heartbreak of knowing you missed out on eternal life. The physical pain of being consumed by the fire will be NOTHING compared to the emotional pain and regret over your life decisions and realizing that there truly was someone who was watching your every thought and action. This horror will be too much to bear, and they will be burned and destroyed by God's holy presence. It makes more sense that God Himself is hell for the unredeemed sinner. After all, "no man may see my face and live." The unredeemed man who sees God will perish. The unredeemed man is not immortal. The redeemed man who sees God will live forever.
I agree, also adding Jude 7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." are people suffering in Sodom and Gomorrah today?
I think this is the first time i'm seeing a religious person talking so calmly about god and hell. Without an intent to convince someone to believe in god.
Well he is in a very controlled setting and environment and also his own Chanel is uploading this. Of course they would not post this if he looked to be caught off guard and what not. There’s videos out there that are posted by other people who have witnessed him in person and yes it surely DOES start to seem to get to him when he cannot finding an answer.
Here's how the Eternal Being feels about endless punishment: "I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made." (Isaiah 57:16) "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." (Lamentations 3:22) "The Lord will not cast off forever." (Lamentations 3:31) "He does not retain his anger forever, because he delights in mercy." (Micah 7:18) "O you who hear prayer, to you shall all flesh come. When iniquities prevail against me, you atone for our transgressions." (Psalm 65:2-3) "All your works will give thanks to you, O Lord" (Psalm 145:10a)
This is the carnal man at his best. The idea of eternal hell fire is bad enough, (the most cruel indictment against a loving God) but to think that souls would eternally sin while in such a place is ludicrous. Imagine being in a fiery hell where your body is constantly burned up and then brought back to repeat the same thing over and over again and what? You just keep shaking your fist at God and enjoy this unimaginable pain forever. It's not like you would get used to the pain. If that were the case, then it would no longer be punishment, would it? No, if such a place existed it would be excruciating every time. And how long would it take to burn a body in hell? An hour? A minute? A second? Who knows. Let's say burned 24 times a day for a billion years and each time it happened you were squirming in unimaginable pain. I think most people would bend their knees to God before the first flames came anywhere near them. But, let's not get lost in this nonsense. Only a fool would think that these souls would continue in their defiance. The truth is, there is no such place. Most if not all of mankind is in hell already. Hell is a separation from God. In the spirit world, after the death of the human body, this separation is felt more severely. The soul knows its need for God but can't be automatically reconciled to God. Some things still need to be repented of. The soul must make atonement for things (sins) committed in life. Souls need to know and love God. They must be converted to Him. There will be "hell" to pay. These souls while on earth should have taken advantage of this needed change. The need to die to the flesh so that the spirit can live. (born again) For those who die in this state of hell and pass on to the spirit dimension, they must go through this process of being born again. This is called the second death. All those who went through the first death, that is to say, experienced the new birth while still alive, they will not go through the second death. The second death is where everything is dealt with. When the second death is done with, a new creature comes forth. One born in the nature of Christ. One ready to meet its creator God. The second death is no more a physical fire than the first death is, but it is a painful experience. Ask anyone who has been born of God while still living their life on earth. Men love life. It's hard for a man to give up life's comforts. (go and sell all you have and give it to the poor, then come follow me) Not so easy is it? How about giving your life to God at the expense of losing everything? Family, children, home, and money. Yet this is what the saints of God do. They even give their mortal lives in some cases. People who die without God will need to experience this. God must become everything to them. If it's a painful experience on earth, who knows how hard it will be in the spiritual world? God is a God of love. This experience of losing all for Him is made up for in this life and the next. Painful as it is, we are assured of far greater things to come. When a soul is in hell in the spiritual world they are suffering loss but they know the final outcome. The glory that awaits. Why would anyone shake their first at that? Even those that hate God are healed of that hatred and brought into union with God. This is what Christ came to do. He paid the price for every soul and He will get every soul. There is no victory for the "devil." Those who preach hell fire are self-righteous and believe they deserved heaven because of how holy they were on earth. They excepted God into their hearts. They love God. They are full of it. If it wasn't for God, they would be no better than any other soul. God hates their self-righteousness and they will find themselves as the least in the kingdom of God. They loved Him in their carnal ways but God gives us the ability to love Him in spirit and in truth.
(Eternal) Hell was made for the devil and his angels not humans. Humans are given free will, what is free will if we’re not given choices? He knows the choices we CAN make and their outcomes(where they lead) but it’s up to us to choose
Ok, so... If a sinner remains in Hell because they keep sinning in Hell, perhaps by continued rejection of Yahweh, then what happens if they suddenly stop rejecting him in Hell?
1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. The total victory of Christ has the answers to universal reconciliation, and it’s biblical, the word Aionon is used for ages past and future, and that’s the word they used for eternal.
From Genesis to revelation scripture teaches what the justice of God is, "an eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth." If eternal torment is correct then Christ did not pay our debt. The price he paid was death, he will not be in the lake of fire be tormented for eternity to pay our debt. The wages of sin is death, period. not eternal torment. Unless there is going to be a tree of life in the lake of fire then sinners will not be able to stay alive for eternity. That is why God put Adam and Eve out of the Garden, "lest they eat of the tree of life and love forever." In the New Jerusalem believers are once again going to be given access to that tree in order to have eternal life according to revelation. Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.
I'm afraid Frank's explanations here, which I've heard before and even used in apologetics, don't seem to adequately answer the question. Why should sinning against a greater being carry a punishment any worse than sinning against a lesser being? Shouldn't culpability simply be measured out according to the state of someone's mind when sin was committed? As for us still sinning in hell ... what reason have we to believe that all denizens of hell never repent forever and ever?
That's because he's wrong, the bible does not say that, and the trouble came into christianity when we started fetishizing the terrible KJV of the bible. There is no hell, the word hell was invented to translate the words sheol, gehenna, and hades all into one concept. The original translations of the words clearly explain that "hell" is a purification process that ALL, 100% go through before moving on in the afterlife. It is not standing in a place for all eternity and burning in a fire.
Why is reasoning, whenever you can just use spiritual discernment, and let the Holy Spirit testify and teach you, rather than some teaching from man? The Bible teaches that all people are saved eventually.
@@NKWTI That’s incorrect my friend, Jesus was clear hell is eternal and it is a place of fire and suffering, it doesn’t matter what translation you look at: “But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8 “The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” - Matthew 13:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels…. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” - Matthew 25 “And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” - Revelation 20:10
@@JesusSavesSouls no you're incorrect Jesus did talk a lot about hell but he never once said it was eternal matter of fact in Matthew 10:28 he said fear not he who can destroy the body but fear he who can destroy both body and soul in hell. There's just no way going around that verse.
Christians who still believe in hell are shooting themselves in the foot by believing something not taught in the Bible. The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment. Also, their concept of God is too small, like He is a petty being who fumes when people ignore Him.
I really love the way you put this, Frank. In my opinion, I think this is the single most objective answer to this question I've ever heard. Thank you.
His answer is biblically fallacious. He claims, as William Lane Craig does, that the reason why God will have to torment souls forever is because they will never stop doing evil, never stop sinning. Yet there is no place in scripture which says that God is so weak and such a failure, that He has no powers, no ability to humble down pride, which is the root of all evil. It says rather the opposite, in Isaiah 2 in the book of Daniel, in the book of Job, in Ezekiel it is clearly stated that pride will be brought low and filth will be purified. So pride, which is the root, the foundation of all evil is not a force which is too powerful for God to deal with, no, it will be humbled down in the end times, this is why God is collecting His wrath for, to burn evil down.
Okay but why would god send people to hell for not having faith in what they don't know is true instead of sending people to hell for not having faith in what they do know is true?
So then why does he want us to conform to his doctrine? Why even bother living up to his standard which you just admitted is impossible? Am I getting what you're saying wrong or is that actually what you mean? Please correct me if I am wrong.
To those people saying God is bad for punishing sinners or blame Him for the sins of the world: Say I'm at home cleaning the living room and the floor is wet and slippery. My kids come out running, I tell them to stop running because the floor is wet and they can hurt themselves. They choose to ignore me and run on the wet floor. They slip and hurt themselves, and they also break a flower pot. Now, was it my fault that they hurt themselves? Was it not them consciously choosing to disobey me what caused them getting hurt and things in the house getting broken? Did I not warn them about the wet floor, yet they still chose to ignore me? Am I a "bad father" for procreating "disobedient children"? And would I be wrong if I scolded them afterwards for disobeying me? Don't blame God for the sins of humanity. We are to blame, we chose sin over God. He gave us free will so that we could choose for ourselves, but that doesn't mean there are no consequences for our actions. Be responsible. We will be held accountable. Or who do you think you are to question God? Are you going to go and tell Him how bad of a job He did? Are you going to go teach Him how to be God? Are you going to go create your own "perfect" universe and tell Him: "look God, that's how it's done"? In the end God will ask those who rejected Christ: "why did you reject Me and my Son? Why did you sin against Me? Did I not tell you beforehand what not to do? Did I not give you the guidelines beforehand?"
Ok, just replace "tell them to stop running" with ancient hebrew text and walk out of the room. Also, if they fall over they will be tortured eternally as punishment. That analogy doesn't work in any way. I doubt many people believe in God yet choose not to worship him, so no, it's not disobedience, it's disbelief, the two are completely different.
@@hamez1300 The "ancient Hebrew text" argument is absurd. At that time it wasn't ancient Hebrew, it was just Hebrew. And the Bible has been accurately translated to almost every modern language, so you can't say you don't have access to the information God provided. Even if the father walked out of the room, it doesn't change the fact that he gave the kids the command to stop, it doesn't change the fact that the floor was wet, it doesn't change the fact that it was dangerous for them, and it doesn't change the fact that it was clear disobedience, and that they had literally no reason for disobeying, other than their own rebellion. Or does the father suddenly have no authority when he's not in the room and his words are worth nothing? Is that how things work now? But God hasn't "walked out" of His crestion. He's very present in it, every Christian knows it and sees it. And God isn't a tyrant. He doesn't force you to do anything, nor does He control you. Or are you trying to say the father should've looked the kids in their room while he was cleaning? If he'd done that, you would then complain that the kids have no freedom and that the father is an oppressor. But God not being a tyrant doesn't mean He's not going to hold you accountable for your acts. Actions have consequences. And He is the Judge of all. The kids wouldn't be published for falling. They would be published for disobeying. And a life of constant disobedience and rebellion against an eternal God deserves eternal retribution. When you act against your parents at home you deserve them scolding you or grounding you. When you act against your school's rules and authorities or against your job's, you deserve being admonished or expelled/fired. When you act against your government or against the law, you deserve to be fined or jailed. The higher the authority against which you act, the greater the penalty. So tell me, shouldn't the penalty for acting against the eternal God, who is the highest authority of all the earth, the universe, and of all existence, also be the highest penalty of all, and thus be eternal? You just hate to assume responsibility for your actions. You hate to be held accountable. You just want to do whatever you want without consequences. But it doesn't work that way. Never has, never will. And the wages of everyone's sins will be payed. Either by Jesus (who already payed for all of our sins, you just have to accept Him), or by the sinner. But God won't even force you to accept Jesus' payment, that's how much of a gentleman He is. But if you reject Jesus' payment for your sins, you will have to pay for them yourself.
Daniel Almodóvar 柯韶智 I know you feel so sure that your analogy is flawless no matter what anyone says, so I’m not going to try and convince you otherwise. Instead, I’ll just comment so that any thinking person who comes across this can see. You ask “who do you think you are to question God?” But let me ask you, who do you think YOU are to speak for God?? Not only this, but You seem to be woefully unaware that people not believing, IS A REAL THING. You also seem to be under the narrow impression that the only reason people don’t believe is because they hate to be accountable. Are you unaware that many who have come to not believe were Christians at first? Think outside your box for a little bit. Or do you think that God is going to punish you for doing so? I sure hope that’s not the kind of God you follow. Your analogy is very flawed in that the kids HEARD you tell them to stop running and they deliberately disobeyed. What about those who’ve never heard and therefore CAN’T believe something they never heard? Sure, we live in the Information Age right now but how are you going to account for all those throughout history who have never even heard the name of Jesus of which according to the Bible is the ONLY name under which a person can be saved (Acts 4:12)?
@@Orange1117 No, I just hate the thought of eternal torture. I'm agnostic, and used to be Christian but I don't know what I believe. By ancient hebrew texts I meant, ancient (thousands of years ago), hebrew texts. So yeah the hebrew part is irrelevant, I apologise. But again, if God is so present, why do so many people turn away from believing in him. I'm open to believing in God, *if* there is one there. Of course I will! Especially if that God loves me, but I can't bring myself to believe in a God when I can't figure out if it is there or not. You also haven't addressed my points of how disbelief isn't the same as disobedience and how people who seek a relationship with God also get thrown into the lake of fire. Also your argument about acting against different authorities doesn't address the consequences of the action (e.g. lying to a friend makes you seem untrustworthy while lying to a judge perverts the course of justice). It's not just authority, there also has to be a high enough consequence for there to be a high punishment.
Hell is not ethernal and Jesus himself said it. "In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." Matthew 18:34 NIV So, the master gave him to the jailers to be tortured (in hell) UNTIL he pays all he owed. So, that UNTIL is what it is. People will be punished in hell UNTIL they pay all their sins and then they will experience ethernal death. Because the opposite of ethernal life is ethernal death, NOT ETHERNAL TORTURE. IT IS ETHERNAL 'PUNISHMENT' NOT 'PUNISHING' Lets look at another verse. "Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." Matthew 5:26 NIV People will not get out UNTIL they pay all their sins. So, the reason why most people think hell is ethernal is this verse: “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25:46 NIV We see the "ethernal punishment" and we say "Yes, hell is ethernal" but as i said, ethernal PUNISHMENT is not the same with ethernally PUNISHING and the original text is even proving this. Look, Greek form for "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 is ”kolasin aionion." Kolasin is a noun in the accusative form, singular voice, feminine gender and means "punishment, chastening, correction, to cut-off as in pruning a tree to bare more fruit." "Aionion" is the adjective form of "aion," in the singular form and means "pertaining to an eon or age, an indeterminate period of time. The noun "aion" in Greek literature has always meant "an indeterminate period of time. It could be as short as the time Jonah spent in the belly of a fish (three days or nights even though the KJV has him in the "belly of Hell" "forever," obviously a mistranslation; see Jonah 2:2, 2:6.), the length of a man's life, or as long as an age. The Bible speaks of at least 5 "aions" and perhaps many more. If there were "aions" in the past, then aions must have an end. The New Testament writers spoke of "the present wicked aion" which ended during that very generation. Obviously, it was followed by another "aion"-- the "aion" in which we presently live. If there are "aions" to come, it must mean that this one we live in will also end. There is a verse which says "the consummation of the aions" proving that each "aion" ends. So how can they be eternal? There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30 There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4) There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7) There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40) There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9) Plainly, the Greek word "aion" transliterated "eon" cannot mean "eternal." A study into the Greek of the Biblical period and before will bear this out. "Aionion" is the adjective of the noun "aion." Since grammar rules mandate an adjective CANNOT take on a greater force than its noun form, it is evident that "aionion" in any of its adjective forms (ios, ou, on) CANNOT possible mean "everlasting" or anything remotely indicating eternity or unending time. For example, "hourly" cannot mean "pertaining to days, weeks, months, or years. The word MUST mean "pertaining to an hour." Therefore, "aionion," the adjective form of the noun "aion" which clearly means a period of indeterminate TIME, CANNOT mean, "forever and ever, eternal, everlasting, eternity, etc." or other words which connote timelessness or unending ages.
And that’s why I am leaving the theology of conditional immortality into universalism. Thanks for nothing Augustine. He translated “aeon” from Greek to Latin. In Greek it means something akin to, “of an age.“ Augustine defined it as, “eternal,” as in, “eternal punishment.“ How could God be a loving God and sentence the vast majority of his creation to eternal conscious torment, the short answer is He couldn’t. Great comment… I hope millions read it.
@@ImprovforGodsglory umm, but not all will be saved. The people who didnt believe in Jesus will be punished, not saved. "Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved." Romans 9:27 Even not all İsrael will be saved. I mean please believe what the Bible says. Jesus died for all humanity, salvation is avaible to all humanity, but not all of them will be saved because not all of them will accept Jesus. Of course, God loved the world so much and gave his one and only Son, that whosever believes in him shall not perish, but have ethernal life (John 3:16). Whosever believes will gain ethernal life, but not the one who does not believe. God bless you.
@Hallelujah Not Hades nor the lake of fire are literally eternal. Only God and God-likeness is eternal. Every argument for the eternal conscious torment crumbles to its contradictory absurdity.
with that terrible doctrine you make god a torturer and sin eternal. „you shall surely not die“ was the first lie of the snake. so where does the eternal soul come from? in revelation, god destroys satan, so he is no more. eternal hell, purgoratory and limbo are roman catholic inventions.
Hi consider these Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Both describe eternal…. Someone argue that the fire is eternal but the punishment isn’t internal, but the above scripture says the punishment is eternal!! Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might Explain this one away SDA… Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 Verse Concepts And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Proof sin is terrible!! 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. May they bring clarity to your spirit
Ecclesiastes 9,5-6: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. how does that fit, if everyone went straight to heaven or hell after dying? ancient hebrew thinking knew nothing about an afterlife, the pharisees believed in soulsleep and the resurrection, the saduzees believed in nothing after death. but everyone lelieves want he wants. can you be happy in heaven, knowing that maybe loved ones suffer eternally in hell? we will see. babylon has fallen!
We deserve it because we deserve judgement for doing wrong things, whether we have a sin nature or not, God is just and doesn’t let sin go unpunished, with that being said it doesn’t matter because God offers a free gift of salvation to everyone who believes in Jesus, who took this punishment for us. It’s up to you to choose
@@Damian-ni2jy Thank you,I am a Christian.I just have some minor doubts like every Christian has when it comes to this Question. I know our sin penalty was paid for at the cross. But my Question still wasn't answered. Why would we deserve hell for all of eternity if we were born in sin and have a nature of sinning? Happy new years btw!
K5 Stahley Yes I understand where you’re coming from. However contrary to popular belief I do not believe that hell is eternal. In revelations it says that we will be judged ACCORDING TO our deeds, and Jesus said in Luke 12:47 that some will be beaten with few stripes and some will be beaten with many stripes. Meaning that people will receive different levels of punishment. In Malachi chapter 4 it says that the wicked will be consumed by the fire and nothing will be left of them, so they will suffer until they are completely destroyed and their soul is dead, as it says “The soul that sins shall die”. God is just and his judgement is righteous so just trust him. Happy new year brother
It's because "Sinful Nature" is misunderstood. We have a "Fallen Nature." If a person is born, but never sins, they won't be judged which was Jesus. But the grasp of sin is too great for any of us to resist. That's why it made sense for an Eternal being to not sin in human form because he had plenty of pre-knowledge to help him unlike a baby.
Hey Juan. Romans 6:23 is talking about eternal death as it is contrast with eternal life in the same text. It's important to look and study the entire text and context to understand it and not have any misunderstanding of God's word. Our soul depends on it and we must take care of it. God Bless
@@jorgetorres1318 Totalmente de acuerdo, la muerte de la que habla romanos 6:23 es ETERNA porque nadie volverá de esa muerte "no resusitaran" dice Isaías, Muertos son, no vivirán; han fallecido, no resucitarán; porque los castigaste, y destruiste y deshiciste todo su recuerdo. Isaías 26:14 RVR1960 No es un TORMENTO eterno es una MUERTE eterna fácil de entender cuando se Lee con cuidado y se abandonan las doctrinas que introdujo Agustín.
@@JuanRodriguez-jn7zx No es doctrina de Agustin es ensenanza de Cristo. No tiene logica que Dios deje morir a su unico Hijo para que un pecador muera en pecado y al morir deje de existir y o no tenga consecuencias. Pablo nos dice que los que no obedecen el evangelio sufriran eterna perdicion en un sufrimiento eterno. 2 Tesalonicenses 1:6-9. Otro pasaje se encuentra en la historia del rico y Lazaro Lucas 16:19-31. Ambos estaban consientes despues de muerte pero uno en un estado de reposo y otro en estado de tormento. La ira de Dios no es solo la muerte fisica y deja uno de existir, en ese caso para que hacer la voluntad de Dios si la consecuencia es solo morir y ya. No confies en ti mismo o en otro hombre. Tu alma vale una eternidad, cuidala. Hay que estar velaos en el Senor. Bendiciones
If I die and end up in a fiery lake.... i can guarantee you, i would kiss gods feet. I would bow down to him and cry and beg to get out of the fire. I dont believe a god exists, and i reject jesus is my lord and savior like my 1st grade teacher told me.
Some thoughts on people continuing to sin in hell forever: "[In] the vicious circle argument, God creates a situation in hell in which sin is not merely _punished_ for eternity but actually _perpetuated for eternity._ But why would God wish to create a situation in which many of his creatures rebel against him forever? Hell does not _have_ to be that way. For instance, God could make those in hell fully aware of the weight of their crimes and the righteousness of his judgment. Such sinners would suffer but would recognize that they fully deserve the punishment they are receiving and would not rage against God. Or, God could annihilate those in hell, eradicating both sin and sinner. Alternatively, as I will argue later, God could restore those in hell and redeem them from sin. In all these ways justice is still done, but sin is not perpetuated. And any of these three alternatives seem preferable to the view according to which sin is never _removed_ from creation but merely contained in a kind of stasis chamber where it is perfectly balanced by punishment." --Gregory MacDonald (aka Robin Parry), _The Evangelical Universalist_
Murder is far different then not believing. What about the millions who worship Buddah? Does it come down to the luck of the right demographic birth? I know the rebuttal to that is "Well one sin isn't worse then another in Gods eye's" I always hear the term evildoers. I know many people who live good moral lives that are atheist. Some are so good you might even call them a Christian from their mirrored actions of Jesus. They're far from the definition of evildoers. So being a compassionate, loving, charitable and selfless human being warrants an eternity in Hell? They can't enter Heaven even with those qualities? They can only enter Heaven if they know Christ. Only through him. 4600 religions on this planet. With my free will. I've asked priest, pastor and the local Dunkin Donuts clerk. I can never get a coherent answer. This is coming from a person who kept the faith for many years. I've been saved countless times. I've been baptized in an ocean, lake and river. Prayed many times. Wanna know what I prayed for...? Besides family, friends and people who needed it. I prayed for a real relationship with God? I watched members of the church sing, cry and raise their arms in the air claiming the Holy Spirit. Love was just overwhelming them. Not once did I receive that presence of God. I opened my heart. I read the scripture. Most people want to believe in Heaven. My mother and father were good Christian people. I lost my mother in 2005 and my father in 2017. Don't you think I want to see them again? Loved ones. Friends and family I've lost over years. Don't you think I want to be in a place where their is no pain, no tears and bask in the glory of God. Ofcourse I do. When you pray for God to show his love. I haven't prayed for financial gain. I haven't even prayed for good health. I lost my faith because of deaf ears. I lost my faith because leader's of faith have failed to answer questions. The contradictions are to vast. The cherry picking of scripture and the convient reinterpretation of another. It's madness sometimes. I've kept my heart and soul open for change. I don't even need a giant sign from God. The fear of God and Hell kept me in the faith for many years. I was just asking for a little love or presence of God. I would talk God's head off anyways. I have way to many questions. Maybe my prayers are powerless. Maybe yours will carry more weight.
... so the majority of mankind burns in hell for eternity, and a select narrow few find the way to heaven. And this is from a perfect God of love who new what he was doing the whole time??? anyone else find that kind of bizarro?
Philip an infinite crime for a finite punishment is the very definition of evil. You are correct. Unfortunately the people who believe in eternal hell have no concept of justice and are compelled to be good through fear. If an all powerful being exists, it has no need for its finite creation to worship it and no need to punish its finite creation eternally. Even humans understand this concept. If you tell a child not to take a cookie from the jar before dinner and they do, only a brain damaged parent would think that eternally punishing the child is an acceptable response. If we as finite beings with limited intelligence and understanding are ourselves able to see the immorality of such an action, surely if some being of infinite power and understanding exists, it too would understand this and far more than we ever could. If you trace religion throughout history you can see how it was changed, manipulated and used to control the people. I was raised Catholic and am now Agnostic because nobody is going to use fear to force me to be good. I am a good person because I choose to be, not because I fear punishment. You seem to think the same way. Don't let them convince you to hate others out of fear. If an infinite being exists, upon death all will be explained and not through punishment or eternal torment.
Kefka The Mad i agree with you. I am personally a Jesus believer but i don’t consider myself totally christian for the beliefs they have about many topics and one of them is eternal punishment. Humankind is really complex and something i don’t understand as much but there is one i thing i know which is we cant never be completely evil or be completely good. No matter how good or evil we are because there would still be something about us that opposes what we are which can change our ideals and beliefs. No matter how evil or how inhuman you try to be because there would always be a way for you to change or no matter how good of a person you are because there is something that could make you have evil beliefs because thats what make us humans. I personally don’t believe there’s someone that deserves an eternal punishment even i cant think of a human that would be so evil in this world that would deserve an eternal punishment. Theres people from other tribes that had never been told about this religion and it would be really unfair to just make them suffer eternally for something they didn’t know about. Even us who know about god only have one piece of evidence which is the bible which isn’t much knowing that it was written by many people that we cant say are reliable. Even in the the old testament we can see an image of god that seems to act more like the gods from the old religions like zeus and odin then how i see a loving god acting and even if its said he doesn’t tolerate sin we can see in the Old Testament that he sin of wrath, envy and pride. I see many people say that if you just accept jesus you would go to heaven which i find even more absurd because would that mean that people that literally had murdered and tortured people would be forgotten if they believe in Jesus before they die? Theres also people who say that if the bible says something morally you got to believe it and i tried to do so but theres still something inside me that opposes those ideas. I kind of wanna end here because im getting out of topic but yea i just wanted to say i agree that the idea of hell is really absurd mostly because we are being judged with eternal punishment by something we did in a temporary world and well like i said l we can still change no matter what so i prefer to believe in a punishment to change us to the right path like the punishments are parents did to use and not a punishment to just make you suffer.
@@JoseLopez-ju1ng Great explanation Jose, I agree 100%. I not only feel bad for those who spend their life living in fear of enteral hell and preaching in hateful ways toward others because their views are consistently enhanced by surrounding themselves only with others who think like them (echo chamber), but I also feel bad for many many people like myself who grew up Catholic, and felt very uncomfortable with many things I was taught which priests could not adequately answer. I stopped being a Christian when I was 16 and I am 36 now. The indoctrination of fear is so great that it took me almost 15 years after I stopped being a Christian to get over the fear of eternal hell. I would always ask myself "but what if I'm wrong". The great teachers of the world, like Buddha and Jesus never spoke of eternal punishment. Their messages were always centered on love and kindness. As you pointed out, a major issue is how the God of the old Testament is clearly a vile being who is both jealous and spiteful, two things that no being which could be called a God would ever be. One particular story always stood out to me The Book Of Job. Now Satan comes to God and basically makes a bet with God that Job would turn his back on God if he was severely punished and lost everything, Since we know God is all knowing, he already knew the outcome. Yet out of what can only be described as Pride, a sin in the Bible, God accepts Satan's bet and lets Satan kill Job's wife, his children, his slaves and all his animals, then gives Job a sickness. When Job does not turn his back on God, he is rewarded, not with his old wife, children, slaves and animals, but with a NEW wife, NEW children, NEW slaves and NEW animals. This is a huge problem because God being all knowing, knew that his Pride would result in the death of dozens of people, all of which are supposed to be equal in the eyes of God. If God can so willingly sacrifice others just to prove a point he is already aware of, then he is the very definition of evil. When I brought this up to the priests they would try to tell me it's a parable. If that's the case though, then there is literally no way to know how much of the Bible are just parables and stories which even though God claims to speak to the people and be part of these stories, isn't actually real because the stories are just that, stories. If that is the case, then nothing in the Bible is actually divine as these stories would not have been written by God or Divinely inspired through writers from God. No all benevolent God would put stories such as that into a book that is supposed to be the backbone of an entire way of existing in life. This means the God of the Bible is either a murderer who kills based on pride, or a fabrication. I respect Jesus as a person and believe his message is completely different from the God of the old testament, again though the evidence that he was anything more than a man is practically non--existent unless you are getting that information from the Bible which again is according to those who are confronted with my problem of Job, just a book of parables. This is why I could not in good faith continue to follow this religion. I still respect and support modern Christianity as the religion as a whole has been very introspective in taming it's most extreme elements and in Christians themselves rising up to challenge those within its ranks who seek to hurt others rather than spread a message of peace. I am an Agnostic Buddhist and have been for the past 6 years. I consider myself spiritual but not religious. The only religion I have no respect for is Islam because I have seen first hand what it does to others. Islam is a religion of war that seeks conquest and domination by any means necessary. I believe the West must become culturally stronger not weaker as progressives/social justice warriors and Islamic apologists would like to see it become which is the only way Islam stands any chance of conquering the West so while I am no longer a Christian I do support Christianity and other moderate Christians along with all other religions of peace in the hopes that they can one day free the world of Islam before it is capable of conquering Western Culture because should Islam succeed, it will do to the world, what it did to the Middle East in 800AD, turn a once thriving civilization that was more advanced in mathematics and astronomy than even Europe was, into a backwater system of scientific and cultural oppression against women, gays, and all non-Muslims. A world in which Islam is allowed to spread and infiltrate Europe as it is doing now, and soon America, will be a world that would more resemble a sci-fi dystopian future more than anything and I cannot in good conscience stand by and do nothing when I know as a Libertarian Nationalist in America, that 30 years from now Islam will dominate Europe and from that point on fanatics will have access to nuclear weapons and there is no doubt in my mind that Muslim extremists of which there are roughly 500 million or more in the world would happily set off a nuclear bomb or launch Europe's ICBM's at other Western Nations. The battle for Europe has already begun and Islam has struck the first blow. Sharia Law is not spreading their and going after Muhammad for being a pedophile got a man in England sentenced to prison for hate speech and while in their he was murdered by inmates who were Muslim extremists./ Currently in America 58% Muslims do not believe that the 1st amendment protects negative speech against Muhammad. 52% believe that speaking ill of Muhammad should be punishable by jail and a shocking 12% of American Muslims believe that blasphemy against Muhammad should be put to death. The left wings of America and Europe have opened the flood gates to their own cultural suicide. No nation or group of nations in the history of the world has ever surrendered its culture out of shame which will ultimately lead to the suicide of the West.
What doesn’t make sense to me is eternity... for good or for bad. The law is eternal so sin should be too no? Doesn’t the sin make the law? What sin then if its eternal?
The eternal punishment is "DEATH". Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death, but eternal life is a gift from God through Christ Jesus." The lost will not "live" forever in torment. For it to be true that the lost will live forever in torment, they would have to be made immortal. Scripture repeatedly teaches that ONLY the saved will be granted immortality, so then, the unsaved will not be granted immortality and will therefore DIE.
@Jaykob Seiler Ohhh just like the Ten Commandments and the origin myth right? It's handy to have two versions to cherrypick from when it's convenient.
Cherubim Church, Sorry, but the Bible does not teach this. According to the scriptures, God's perfect standard of justice is based on an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, and a life for a life (Exodus 21:23,24).
Revelation 20:10 New Living Translation *10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.* They will be tormented forever. Doesn’t mean they will stop existing, it means they will feel the pain forever.
@@kingdomambassador1904 Nonsense, Jesus used the love of an earthly father as reference to show God is better. If we can't throw our worst enemy in fire forever and consider it cruel, how much more God. Like Jesus said, if your child ask you for fish, would you give him a serpent instead? How MUCH MORE will your Heavenly Father give His Spirit to those who ask. So if my dad hears my agonizing voice of pain while burning even in a fire I started, would he not do everything in his limited power to save me. How much more will the Father who was revealed in Christ Jesus snatch all His creation from the flames of hell (assuming they're literal) if he heard the agonizing cries of one soul not to talk of billions of people.
Sin deserves eternal death, destruction, deprived of the right to live. Not pointless eternal suffering and rejection and cursing of God. Putting the wicked out of existence instead of keeping them in misery.
What if someone dies at 15 and has not had the time to find the truth and is therefore a none believer. Does he deserve eternal hell for failing to figure out if God's existence was indeed real?
How is it remotely fair to punish someone who did not expect to be punished? It would be like a school expelling you for chewing gum when you had no idea there was a rule against chewing gum in that school. If a person genuinely does not believe a Hell even exists, how is it fair to punish them with it? And to Frank's third argument, if you stop sinning in Hell and accept Jesus Christ in the afterlife, couldn't you get out?
Why don't you just admit that you are sinful and say sorry to God? is it really that hard to look inside yourself and see your faults? I never struggled with it. You must have a lot of pride. I can clearly see my selfish nature and that I have done wrong. God forgives you. You don't need to be punished. That is the entire point of Christianity. You don't have to worry about whether it is fair because Jesus did it for you already. HE HAS DONE IT FOR YOU. That is the point.
Dino Hall, I believe the Bible says that those who never had a chance to hear the gospel will be judged by their works in the end (Romans 2:14, Matt 25 the sheep and goats judgement which I believe is fulfilled at the great white throne at the end of Rev 20). Of course, they could not have been saved without the blood of Jesus, so they won't be saved by their works but his sacrifice and grace.
@@jamesemerson4102 That's all great, but there's just one problem: _I don't believe that is true._ If I asked you to say sorry to Allah for your sins and accept Islam into your heart, would you do it? If not, then how can you expect me to apologize to someone I don't believe exists? Also, you say God forgives me. Then why is he going to punish me?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 "Of course, they could not have been saved without the blood of Jesus..." Okay, I don't find your explanation too unreasonable aside from this point, specifically because according to the Bible, weren't there about 4000 years before Jesus was born where people sinned? Are all those people burning in Hell because God decided to wait on giving humanity a chance to be forgiven?
@@dinohall2595, Abraham was saved by grace thru faith while looking forward to the Cross. Likewise, I believe God’s grace can be applied all the way back to the Beginning and the first recorded sacrifice by Abel in Genesis. Basically, everyone who will still be dead by the end of Rev 20 will be raised from the dead to be judged by their works according to the amount of light they had available to them. And remember that to whom much is given much is required, and Jesus said the people of Sodom and Gomorrah will have it easier on the day of judgement than first century Jews who actually heard the gospel accompanied by miracles. So I think rather than saying people who never heard the gospel have no chance (which is not fair), I see God extending even more grace toward them to make up for the fact that all they had to guide them was their consciences.
There is no hell, the KJV translated sheol, gehenna, hades, and tartarus into "hell." Translated them into one word and one concept. The poor translation of the original greek and hebrew used in the scriptures that some modern christians REFUSE to study, shows your lack of commitment. The words translated as "forever and ever" do not mean what they say in English in their original language, and it's clear that Jesus purifies through their works EVERYONE and brings them to confess that Jesus is the Christ. Isn't it said that he will leave the 99 to go save the 1? References are constantly made to purification and cleansing, he is described as a launderer's soap and that his flame is purifying. A crucible is mentioned which is used to purify and leave behind only silver and metal. The word translated as "torment" whenever "hell" is discussed is actually a greek word that means "to test against a touchstone" which is used to test the purity of gold and silver as it is struck against the stone, if it is not ready, it is "thrown back into the fire." Jesus used material things we could relate to to explain what happens in the afterlife. It is not LITERALLY standing in a spot for all eternity and burning in a flame. That serves no purpose, and since most of us are going there, I guess that means Satan has won in taking most of God's children away from him and therefore Jesus/God is not victorious in the end, huh? Good thing that's not true and those of you ruining Christianity are WRONG.
Mulder's Mayhem you're correct in your research of the early history of the church and the Hebrew and Greek translations. The pagan doctrine of eternal burning in hell is causing a falling away effect. It makes Adam more powerful than Jesus. God bless.
God's Word on Hell. 41Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life (Matthew 25:41-46). 8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than [f]to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. Matthew 18:8 Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:45,46 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering-since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. II Thessalonians 1:5-10 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. Jude 7 If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. Revelation 14:9-11 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [a]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10 and in verses 14 & 15
A lot is riding on this: In the verses you mention where Hell or destruction is said to be "eternal," "everlasting" or "forever," it's based on the Greek word _aionios._ If you google _aionios,_ you'll find many opinions about its meaning. There's good reason to believe it should be translated "of an age." The adjective _aionios_ is derived from the noun _aion,_ which means "eon" or "age." Eons and ages are long but *finite* periods of time. The very literal Rotherham's Emphasized Bible version translates _aionios_ as "age-abiding." Young's Literal translation is similar. Blessings!
God expelled Adam and Eve from Eden to prevent them becoming immortal. Jesus said to not fear those who can only kill the body, but fear God who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna (aka the Lake of Fire or Hell). And several scriptures speak of the crown of life/immortality being a gift that God grants to those he regenerates. Therefore, human beings are not immortal until God gives some of them a new nature and glorified body. Revelation 14 says that those who take the mark of the beast will suffer day and night forever, which seems to contradict the above scriptures but only if we ignore the detail that they took that mark, and I think that tells us something about the mark of the beast. Clues about this are found in Daniel 2 where it says “they” shall mix themselves with the seed of men in the end times, and in Genesis 6 where it says the sons of God (Bene Elohim or angelic beings) took wives who then gave birth to Nephilim (and their disembodied spirits are where demons came from). In short, the Bible teaches that natural humans are destroyed in the Lake of Fire, but immortal angels and anyone who somehow becomes hybridized by them will not be destroyed in the fire but suffer forever.
Exactly, Wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life if we accept Jesus, we don't have immortality. Jesus uses a lot of parables and analogies, unless he was literally telling us we should pluck out our eyes to not sin, I doubt Jesus would promote self harm. "outer darkness" "Eternal Destruction" "Wages of sin is Death" all sound like literally annihilated
@@letstalkbiblewithshun.s, it says so here, and the Greek word translated “hell” here is _Gehenna_ which is a euphemism for the lake of fire. “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:28 Only immortals like fallen angels can suffer forever. I think the confusion comes from Rev 14:9-12 where people who take the mark and worship the beast are fated to suffer forever in the lake of fire. But Paul said in 1 Corinthians that eternal life is a reward to be sought after, and we need that gift because we are mortals. So, Rev 14 tells us something shocking about what taking the mark and worshiping the beast does to people, but it's a mistake to extrapolate their fate to everyone else.
The wages of sin is death. This is true for all. If there is error, surely this error will lead you into damnation if this will not be taken care of... Sin is the error that exists within the humanity and the world, this error is what makes us all imperfect. God is perfect and if He creates, surely His creations must also be perfect but why some of His creations have fall into sin and become imperfect, its simple, its all happens when pride begins to lurk within the hearts of His creations... Pride itself is the reason why we became sinners and pride will also be the reason why many were damned and will go into eternal hellfire... Pride is the absence of "price". Price is the presence of worth or value, without this price, we are worthless creatures without values in our hearts... God gave us worth yet we deny it that's why we are sinners like the one who had also rebelled against Him, this one was the worst enemy of humankind, we know him in the name of Satan, the Adversary... The spirit of Satan is savage while the spirit of "Seven" is divine... When Satan was thrown into the pits and depths of this world, he was intended to be sealed under the grounds of the earth yet because of Man, satan had entered over the world and conquered all that he can conquers... This event was based from the history that we had... Imperfection occurs right now because of the past of Man... Man was destined to commit sin (error) for it was the result of his past actions... And that past actions were just pertaining to one particular sin, the sin of pride within grace, or what we called us "ignorance"... We can say that ignorance itself is the very root cause of our imperfections as human beings but are we really the ones who were at fault here? Frankly speaking, yes and no, yes because we let ourselves to become ignorant of the fact that we should not commit sin against God but also no because it is not just us who had committed a crime against God but also the Devil itself, the one that tempted us since the beginning of Man... The tempter, which we knew as the Devil, the Satan, or the Adversary, received his own punishment and the man who was been tempted along with his wife also received their own punishments for each of one them. The punishment for the tempter is different to the punishment of the ones who were been tempted. The question now is why do God need to impose punishment to the ones who were been tempted, is it not more righteous for Him if He just punish the tempter and let the tempted be free of punishments, if God will do that, He will be righteous in the eyes of the tempted but evil in the eyes of justice itself for He disregards the Law Of Valid Equality, the Law that states "what you reap is what you sow"... God needed to do those things for He is perfect and what He had said is always absolute... No one can defy His word even Him cannot defy it for it is His Eternal Living Word, once He spoke it, it should never be twisted because if you will do it, you will receive what is just for you and this is the cause of contradiction, the presence of conflict... All imperfections must never be allowed in His sight yet because He is also merciful, He gave chances for those who were still under His grace but not to those who deny His grace willfully... His mercy was limited to those who are worthy of it and who are those who are worthy of it, those who will accept it gladly with humility and gratitude... Then, how about those who are not worthy of it, who are they? These are those who are prideful enough to totally reject His grace even though they already knew deep within their hearts that it is God who gives them life and grace... The difference between the Devil/Evil Spirits and Human Beings are these: The Devil/Evil Spirits are perfectly arrogants for they reject God perfectly while the Human Beings are imperfectly arrogants for they reject God imperfectly... How can I say that, its simple, if God shows His grace, mercy, and compassion to the human beings, they will surely accept it gladly without a doubt for it was said that the Law of God will be written into their hearts but if God will show these things to the evil spirits, they will surely not accept it for they are prideful enough to do so...
God saves us from the damnation. He saves us from the two kinds of death, firstly is the death of the body, it was stated in the Bible that those who will believe in Him will have new bodies different from the old, so in this case, we can assure that even though our bodies die, there is an assurance that we can have new bodies different from these bodies that we have right now... These bodies will have no sin of the flesh and surely it will be pure and true to all who will believe... Secondly is the death of the soul, it is a spiritual death, the death were your spirit becomes evil and there is no way for you to be save if you realized this death... Your spirit will become totally evil and there is now way for you to turn yourself back from what you were since then, it is the state where the grace of God was no longer covers you...
Human Beings has been warned by God once before fall into sin though humans failed God but God has given one more chance to human beings to repent and stop being arrogant against God and if a man or woman stills keep this up then that guy will be a part of lake of fire. Again through faith alone we're saved by grace. God has given enough chances to humankind so there's should be no question about why do a temporal being commit evils goes to hell.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.------- From my understanding the punishment is eternal in that there is no chance to be reconciled to God the father. The torture of hellfire is temporal, the punishment remains even after our souls are destroyed in heaven. In the verse above Jesus seems to indicate that he will destroy the souls of the unsaved in hell. If they're destroyed, are they not consumed by the fire? Multiple verses in the Bible indicate that our rewards in heaven will not be equal. Some will receive greater rewards and others will receive lesser rewards. Why would it be any different for our punishment?
Stephen Danley, mortals will be destroyed, but fallen angels and those who take the mark of the beast will suffer forever, which tells us something about the mark.
Yes the idea of eternal suffering in hell is made up by people from my understanding. After I got saved by Jesus and started reading the bible I noticed that I never really found anything to support that theory, besides the souls being tossed in the "eternal lake of fire", in which case the word eternal is clearly meant for the lake of fire and not for the pumishment. I think it was simply another tool to keep the people scared and under their thumb for the churches.
@@laucho1 , actually, Rev 14:10 says those who take the mark will be tormented day and night forever in the Lake of Fire, and Rev 20:10 says the two beasts and the Devil will also be tormented in the Lake of Fire. My point is that tells us something about the nature of the beast and his mark because Matt 10:28 says to fear God who can destroy body and soul in Gehenna (aka Lake of Fire). In other words, natural man is mortal and so gets destroyed in the fire, but immortals like fallen angels and their hybrids are not destroyed, so taking the mark of the beast amounts to receiving cursed immortality in a fallen state.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 the problem I have with that (eventhough there cerntainly is the possibility that you are right since eternity is a possible translation) is that the old greek word that was commonly translated as eternity is aeon which can be tranlated as a lifetime, life, a generation, time, a length of time, a period and an eternity. Every other translation for that word meant a very long but limited time span. They had another word for eternity that explicitely described a span of time that would have no end (meaning eternity or everlastingness) called αιωνιότητα (aioniótita) which seemingly was purposely not used in those verses in the bible. Like I said there is definitely the possibility that I'm wrong on this matter and if I am I hope God will show me, but I want to remind that unlike the prophets that were Gods tool to put his word into scripture, the translators were no prophets themselves which leaves much more room for errors. May God bless you and always keep you on his path brother in the name of Jesus❤
@@laucho1, I think the strength of your interpretation is in the fact that God didn’t use a common explicit word for eternal here, but Revelation was written in veiled language, so even the most clear passages contain things that can be taken different ways. People must go with the best evidence that does not contradict other scriptures, and the vast majority of scholars and churchmen believe the “ages of ages” here means the “punishment” in the “fire” (two words that God did use an explicit word _aionios_ “eternal” in Matt 18:8, and 25:46) is eternal. Anyway, to each his own. Maranatha!
No we are not, nowhere in scripture does it teach this. Scripture says Adam and Eve was put forth from the garden so they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever. Why would they need the tree of life to live forever if they were created as eternal beings? The tree of life in Revelation will be in the the mist of the city, why will we need access to it again if we are eternal beings? I Timothy 6: 16 say God alone has immortality. "who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen." To say that we are eternal beings is saying that we are Gods. Scripture says that God breathed the breath of life into Adam and he "became a living soul" not that he gave him a soul.
@@moamenh5133 Psalm 9:17 KJV [17] The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Revelation 14:11 KJV [11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Matthew 25:41 KJV [41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
And now a word from our church fathers ... "Christ saves all men. Some he converts by penalties, others who follow Him of their own will ... that every knee may be bent to Him, of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth" [Isa. 45:22-23, Rom. 14:11, Phil. 2:10-11, Rev. 5:13] -- *Clement of Alexandria,* _Commentary on 1 John_ "When death shall no longer exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then, verily, God will be All in all" [1 Cor. 15:28,55] -- *Origen,* _De Principiis 3:6.3_ "What else does 'until the times of universal restoration' signify to us, if not the aeon to come, in which all beings must receive their perfect restoration?" [Acts 3:21] -- *Eusebius,* leading historian of the early church, _Contra Marcellum __2:4:11_ "A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one." [Col. 1:15-20] -- *Gregory Nazianzus,* _Oration 42_ "Christ captured over again the souls captured by the devil, for that He promised in saying, 'I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.'" [John 12:32, 1 Peter 3:19-20, 4:6, Psalm 68:18, Eph. 4:8-10, and maybe Matt. 12:29] -- *Athanasius,* _Expositions on the Psalms, 68.18_ "The peace [coming] from the Lord is coextensive with all time [eternity]. For all things shall be subject to him, and all things shall acknowledge his empire; and when God shall be all in all, those who now excite discords by revolts, having been quite pacified, [all things] shall praise God in peaceful concord." [Psalm 145:10a, 1 Cor. 15:28, Rev. 5:13] -- *Basil,* _Commentary on Isaiah 9:6_ "So the Son of Man came to save that which was lost, i.e., all, for as in Adam all die, so, too, in Christ shall all be made alive." [Luke 19:10, 1 Cor. 15:22] -- *Ambrose,* _Exposition on the Gospel of Luke 15.3_ "For the wicked there are punishments not perpetual, ... but they are to be tormented for a certain brief period, according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness, having no end, awaits them; ... the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave crimes are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed them. The resurrection, therefore, is regarded as a blessing, not only to the good, but also to the evil." [Isa. 57:16], *Diodore,* _De Oecon_ "Some among the wise and learned … have alluded to this in an enigmatic way, by adducing that God is not only just, but also merciful, and that it becomes the One who judges with justice to have sinners suffer in a measure that is proportional to their sins and then make them worthy of blessedness." -- *Theodore,* _Liber Scholiorum, 2:63_ "'All the kings of the earth shall adore him.' Some, indeed, in the present life willingly, but all the rest after the Resurrection; for not yet do we see all things subject to him, but then every knee shall bow to him." [The "kings of the earth" are rebellious unbelievers in Rev. 6:15, 17:2,18, 18:3,9, 19:19,21 ... but check out what happens in Rev. 21:24-27!] -- *Theodoret,* _On Psalm 72:11_ "Death shall come as a visitor to the impious; it will not be perpetual; it will not annihilate them; but will prolong its visit, till the impiety which is in them shall be consumed." [Matt. 5:26] -- *Jerome,* _On Micah 5:8_ "After the complete abolition of sin, praise shall be sung to God; which praise contain (implies) our being incapable of turning to sin ... when every created being shall be harmonized into one choir ... and when, like a cymbal, the reasonable creation, and that which is now severed by sin ... shall pour forth a pleasing strain, due to mutual harmony. Then comes the praise of every spirit for ever abounding with increase unto eternity." [Psalm 150] -- *Gregory of Nyssa,* _On Psalms, Tract 1, ch. 9_ Other church fathers who believed in eventual universal salvation include *Asterius, Bardaisan, Cyril of Alexandria, Didymus the Blind, Dionysius, Ephrem the Syrian, Gennadius, Hilary, John Cassian, John Chrysostom, Marcellus, Maximus the Confessor, Maximus of Turin, Methodius, Paulinus, Proclus, Titus of Basra & Victorinus.* Sources: Thomas Allin, _Christ Triumphant,_ Annotated by Robin Parry edition, chapters 4-5 & Ilaria Ramelli, _A Larger Hope?, Volume 1: Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich,_ 2019
You theorize “you do continue to sin in hell, if your conscious”. If! If! If! Go away and come back when your not guessing and things aren’t so “iffy”. And while your away why not petition God to show you the real truth in the matter. It will be a delight to see you start proclaiming that Jesus in fact saves”all”! God does not trash his creation!!!
Heres is the thing hell is complete seperation from god. If anything that is good comes from god then theres is no good. The reason that hell is eternal is because god has completely removed himself from existence so there is no hope because he can not hear u. He isnt theres is in any way. Hope is a gift\quality that comes from him so it has to be eternal as well because if u were able to get out one day u would still have hope but the hope is removed if god isnt there.
Up until about 500 A.D., Christian beliefs about hell were reasonable and beautiful. The prevailing view then was that hell (the lake of fire, actually) not only punished but also purified the unrighteous. It was temporary -- each person's finite punishment would fit their finite crimes (sins). (The Greek speaking early church fathers knew that _aionios,_ the word that is mistranslated as "eternal" in our English Bibles, doesn't really mean "eternal.") Once a person's punishment and purification were complete, he or she would go to heaven. Everyone would eventually make it into heaven and be blessed, with heavenly rewards varying by person, based on the lives they led. For supporting verses & quotes, see my two replies. God bless!
Some verses which assert, imply or strongly suggest eventual universal salvation: "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive ... God [will] be all in all." (1 Cor. 15:22,28) "As one trespass [Adam's] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness [Jesus'] leads to justification and life for all men." (Rom. 5:18) "God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Rom. 11:32,36) "...every knee shall bow to me [God], and every tongue shall confess to God." (Rom. 14:11) " ... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:10-11) "And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32) "And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth I heard saying, 'Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb forever.'" (Rev. 5:13) "O you who hear prayer, to you shall all flesh come. When iniquities prevail against me, you atone for our transgressions." (Psalm 65:2-3) "All your works shall give thanks to you, O Lord." (Psalm 145:10a) "I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made." (Isa. 57:16) "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end." (Lam. 3:22) Also see John 17:2, combination of (John 3:35, 6:37), Rom. 5:19-20, 8:19-21, Eph. 1:10, Phil. 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 2:3-6, 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, Lam. 3:31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos.
Some revealing quotes from leading early church fathers: "Christ saves all men. Some he converts by penalties, others who follow Him of their own will ... that every knee may be bent to Him, of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth" [Isa. 45:22-23, Rom. 14:11, Phil. 2:10-11, Rev. 5:13] -- *Clement of Alexandria,* _Commentary on 1 John_ "When death shall no longer exist, nor the sting of death, nor any evil at all, then, verily, God will be All in all" [1 Cor. 15:28,55] -- *Origen,* _De Principiis 3:6.3_ "What else does 'until the times of universal restoration' signify to us, if not the aeon to come, in which all beings must receive their perfect restoration?" [Acts 3:21] -- *Eusebius,* leading historian of the early church, _Contra Marcellum __2:4:11_ "A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one." [Col. 1:15-20] -- *Gregory Nazianzus,* _Oration 42_ "Christ captured over again the souls captured by the devil, for that He promised in saying, 'I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.'" [John 12:32, 1 Peter 3:19-20, 4:6, Psalm 68:18, Eph. 4:8-10, and maybe Matt. 12:29] -- *Athanasius,* _Expositions on the Psalms, 68.18_ "The peace [coming] from the Lord is coextensive with all time [eternity]. For all things shall be subject to him, and all things shall acknowledge his empire; and when God shall be all in all, those who now excite discords by revolts, having been quite pacified, [all things] shall praise God in peaceful concord." [Psalm 145:10a, 1 Cor. 15:28, Rev. 5:13] -- *Basil,* _Commentary on Isaiah 9:6_ "So the Son of Man came to save that which was lost, i.e., all, for as in Adam all die, so, too, in Christ shall all be made alive." [Luke 19:10, 1 Cor. 15:22] -- *Ambrose,* _Exposition on the Gospel of Luke 15.3_ "For the wicked there are punishments not perpetual, ... but they are to be tormented for a certain brief period, according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness, having no end, awaits them; ... the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave crimes are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed them. The resurrection, therefore, is regarded as a blessing, not only to the good, but also to the evil." [Isa. 57:16], *Diodore,* _De Oecon_ "Some among the wise and learned … have alluded to this in an enigmatic way, by adducing that God is not only just, but also merciful, and that it becomes the One who judges with justice to have sinners suffer in a measure that is proportional to their sins and then make them worthy of blessedness." -- *Theodore,* _Liber Scholiorum, 2:63_ "'All the kings of the earth shall adore him.' Some, indeed, in the present life willingly, but all the rest after the Resurrection; for not yet do we see all things subject to him, but then every knee shall bow to him." [The "kings of the earth" are rebellious unbelievers in Rev. 6:15, 17:2,18, 18:3,9, 19:19,21 ... but check out what happens in Rev. 21:24-27!] -- *Theodoret,* _On Psalm 72:11_ "Death shall come as a visitor to the impious; it will not be perpetual; it will not annihilate them; but will prolong its visit, till the impiety which is in them shall be consumed." [Matt. 5:26] -- *Jerome,* _On Micah 5:8_ "After the complete abolition of sin, praise shall be sung to God; which praise contain (implies) our being incapable of turning to sin ... when every created being shall be harmonized into one choir ... and when, like a cymbal, the reasonable creation, and that which is now severed by sin ... shall pour forth a pleasing strain, due to mutual harmony. Then comes the praise of every spirit for ever abounding with increase unto eternity." [Psalm 150] -- *Gregory of Nyssa,* _On Psalms, Tract 1, ch. 9_ Other church fathers who believed in eventual universal salvation include *Asterius, Bardaisan, Cyril of Alexandria, Didymus the Blind, Dionysius, Ephrem the Syrian, Gennadius, Hilary, John Cassian, John Chrysostom, Marcellus, Maximus the Confessor, Maximus of Turin, Methodius, Paulinus, Proclus, Titus of Basra & Victorinus.* Sources: Thomas Allin, _Christ Triumphant,_ Annotated by Robin Parry edition, chapters 4-5, 1905 & Ilaria Ramelli, _A Larger Hope?, Volume 1: Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich,_ 2019
As Christians want to be taken seriously as "thinkers", "Hell" is that embarrassing doctrine that they wish would go away. That's why Frank Turek teaches that the fire in hell is metaphorical, and that it's this mysterious "separation from god" rather than the old--school view of hell popularized in the early Catholic Church. It's all silliness and the world would be a better place if it's inhabitants would just hating each other.
Of all of His creation, God Created (only) man in His Image. He is Eternal, He intended for the man & the woman to live for & with him eternally in a sinless condition. When they sinned, that sin separated them (individually) from Him for eternity. But, "Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable gift (2Cor9:15) we will spend eternity with Him if we choose or separated from Him for eternity if we reject His free gift. We tend to hope Hell is short because of the fear of His wrath, but we should be thinking about the "unspeakable joy" (1Pet1:8) that He is preparing for those who trust in Him for eternity. You are going to be in one place or the other for ALL of Eternity. Your Choice Now! Because there is no second chance, no unscriptural place called Purgatory. Yes or No for all Eternity. It is as simple as that
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not PERISH, but have everlasting life. This tells us that this who do not put their faith in Christ will perish. It’s as simple as that.
See John 17:3. We are all eternal beings, not temporal beings. Eternal life means knowing God and Jesus, it is a quality of life not a quantity of life. Then read Romans. "As in Adam all sinned and were dead, so in Christ all are made alive in Christ" . All means all.
Nah this doesn't make any sense. He is projecting human thought on sentencing crimes instead going by what God says about sin. Crimes can be sinful (sometimes big emphasis on that) but not all sins are crimes (slavery, police brutality, loan sharks etc) Anyway, God says that the result of sin ultimately is DEATH. And that salvation is ETERNAL LIFE. "You're going to spend eternity somewhere" is false doctrine! One could not even ENDURE eternity unless you were IMMORTAL! And immortality belongs to Christ alone and it will only be given to those who choose Him. To those who don't they will be sentenced to "the second death" in Revelation. Meaning: die, resurrect for judgement, not found in the book of life, die again NEVER TO RETURN! Annihilation. Ashes. The scriptures speak of this. God would never send people to burn forever for 70yrs of sin. There is no justice in that. And let the Lord be just in all His ways because He is just. The opposite of this comes from pagan ideologies of an immortal soul and therefore eternal punishment. God is not cruel.
Charlie Brown, that’s correct except you left out the fact that fallen angels, the two beasts and everyone who takes the mark will suffer forever, which will be because they were either immortal (angels) or became immortal thru the mark of the beast
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Thank you for that. Though ive never heard or read that the mark of the beast gives people immortality. I'm pretty sure it doesn't but maybe I overlooked something in the scriptures or theres something i misunderstood. As far as angels that rebelled im not sure that salvation was extended to them although the scriptures make mention of Jesus visiting the "spirits in prison". And the beasts of revelation 13 may be metaphors for large societies or powerful governments. I'm talking strictly about individual human beings because that's what dude in the video was talking about.
@@QMicAnticsallday, I too believe the beasts of Revelation represent large organizations, but I also believe they somethings refer to the men who lead them, most people refer to them as the Antichrist and False Prophet because Jesus and Paul referred back to the actions of a man in Daniel that declares himself God, and he will be what I call the final Antichrist. And there is some interesting evidence that supports the idea that the mark of the beast will confer immortality found in Daniel 2 where iron and clay are mingled but don’t mix. Verse 43 says “they” shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but shall not cleave one to another. The word translated “cleave” here is an Aramaic word corresponding to an identical Hebrew word used in Gen 2:24 that describes a man and wife “joining” to become one flesh. In other words, they will mingle themselves with humans somehow during the great tribulation without procreation as they did in Gen 6 to create Nephilim giants of the Antediluvian world. This would explain the urgency of sending an angel to warn the whole world to not take the mark (Rev 14). It would also explain why people who take the mark are not savable but have been pre-judged (God saves humans not angels or hybrids who are both locked into their sin thru immortality, which God saved mankind from by driving them away from the Tree of Life). This would also explain why Rev 9 shows marked people seeking death but not finding it, and why they suffer day and night in the Lake of Fire like immortal angels will. In short, I believe the mark of the beast will somehow hybridize people and confer the curse of immortality on unsaved people. However, these ideas are not to be confused with the serpent seed theory that claims Satan impregnated Eve. What I am talking about is the seed war that God prophesied in Gen 3 where he talked about two seed lines (Jesus Christ is Eve’s seed and the ultimate victor). It’s seen again in the parable of wheat and tares where the Devil sows his seed (tares) into the world during the great tribulation via the mark of the beast, but God had already sown his seed (wheat) which is the seal of God on the 144,000 in Rev 7 who get saved while raptured church saints celebrate their entry into heaven, and that’s right before the great tribulation starts at the 7th Seal.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 wow this is kind of deep! I'm familiar with the return of the nephilim theory and transhumanis/hybridization. I'll definitely have to look into this more and get back to u but wow...might be onto something
@@QMicAnticsallday, yeah it’s a lot of clues wrapped in patterns. Of course, it’s possible that some things are mere coincidences, but second temple Jews were already thinking along these lines because they understood the seed war as having to do with human-angel hybrids. The idea that this is all a fairy tale didn’t appear until the third century AD. Maranatha!
So, your God a supposedly merciful and loving God will punish you for not believing in them? How is that loving? I understand a person might need a punishment for certain sins Especially things likw murder, rape, gendocide and others. But an eternity doesn't seem like a punishment. Considering punishments have an ending. But while in hell you cannot ask for forgiveness. Which shows lack of love due to not giving them a chance to ask for forgiveness in the after life
Sin is that bad. His ways are not our ways. We can not understand everything about the Creator, that is why faith is key, even those who have not seen The Messiah believed in Him... It’s a spiritual thing, without His Holy Spirit, no one will understand His hidden mysteries. But there is a great awakening happening and if you search after receiving the Holy Spirit plenty good stuff will be revealed to you🕊
@@kingdomambassador1904 ok say a little girl is raped and due to this she loses faith in your god. According to your god her rapist can still go unpunished if he asks for forgiveness. While the little girl would still go to hell. How/why is that fair?
The wages of sin is death. Death is the punishment and it's eternal, barring an act of God. Eternal punishment does not have to mean eternally being punished. It is God who gives us life and breath and without God we have neither. Christ died for us on the cross. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life.
It says eternal punishment, could that punishment mean that you would burn up in hell and never exist anymore for eternity, or does it mean that God wants the sinners kept alive since he feels satisfied when they are in pain for their sins? Also the parable with Lazarus, so if this parable is based on what’s going to happen in hell, then it means you could see heaven from hell but can’t enter it and you want to drink water in hell but will never get any water.
This is a very poor answer. Think about our Lord doing the very thing he tells us not to? Think about the hypocrisy! Jesus abhorred hypocrites. So, what is the truth? Did Jesus save us from death? Being dead? Yes, for death is the punishment of sin.....and it is eternal. Jesus does not torture and mutilate individuals who do not trust in him! Jesus is light and there is no darkness in him. Frankly if the Church cannot answer this question then we are all lost. My own children can see there is something wrong with this picture of hell we are given! God does not torture.
Blue Vireo yea even more because Jesus showed us the importance of love because he said to never show to not respond to hate with hate but with love like when he said that if someone hits you in on side of the face then offer him the other side and that doesn’t seem similar to concept of hell because giving someone eternal suffering seems to more a message of hate then love.
People choose hell where they will be TORMENTED not tortured, big difference both not fun!! God is just not a tyrant or sadist. People will get their just deserves. Sin is really terrible offense against Him. The devil have us believing it’s no big deal!!
Grafxgrl, what do you do with this? “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell [“Gehenna” aka the Lake of Fire, not Hades].” Matt 10:28
@@grafxgrl8030, I meant what do you do with this scripture that says God destroys both body and soul in hell, which are the material and immaterial parts of humans, seeing how you believe we are immortal spirits?
Bible History Science Let’s compare the scriptures they form the full story: Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Both describe eternal…. Someone argue that the fire is eternal but the punishment isn’t internal, but the above scripture says the punishment is eternal!! Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might Explain this one away SDA… Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 Verse Concepts And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Proof sin is terrible!! 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. His ways are not our ways... microprocessing one verse without observing other scriptures in relation is unsound use of the Good Word.
DankMemes Yes the Jewish concept of hell fire was never thought to be what people today think of it. The Bible doesn't say eternal hell either, it says *eternal punishment* which *in Romans ***6:23* the *punishment* for sin *is death*.
When that time comes... there is no do over or possible second chances. This is it. We are being judged as we speak... We reject or choose hell. He has given us ALL the do’s and don’ts Will we listen and don’t underestimate His WRATH He is the All MIGHTY perfect One He is a Master at whatever He creates So Yikes!!! Don’t mess with Yah!!! Be scared of ending up in that place. For me love of the Father is stronger than my fear of hell.
God created Human Beings to know God, Understand, Glorify & Worship God. God created Human Beings to stay way from Sins(Forbidden things) & Do more Good deeds.
Why does God wants 2 be worshipped n glorified?..... They preached that Hes selfless. Sounds like devil himself Also how can anyone sin when he dont exist? Only the living can sin. When we dont exist we r free from everything. We r free from pleasure, desire, pain suffering, hatred, jealousy, heaven, hell, angels demon, good n bad. We r free from working, slaving, torturing, n all sorts of evil. U dont seem enlightened at all
@@Imaginathor-1k0 . God Does Not Need our Worship, it is the Right of God he Deserves to be Worship. Look God Gave us Everything, so we have to be Grateful to God.
Here is the Truth... Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Both describe eternal…. Some argue that the fire is eternal but the punishment is eternal, but the above scripture says the punishment is eternal!! Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Messiah and from the glory of His might Explain this one away SDA… Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Proof sin is terrible!! 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know Elohyim and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Adonai Yahusha. Yahuah is both love and righteous... Don’t forget. He warns because He IS loving and merciful... See His truth, not yours.
@@kingdomambassador1904 To be able to torture someone forever, one must fill his heart with an absolute hatred, purest darkest 100% hatred, because if you have even just a bit of some love, some compassion in your heart left, you would never be able to torture somebody forever, you could torture them for a very long time, maybe for billions of years but not forever because that tiny bit of love, that miniscule bit of compassion in your heart would eventually begin to bother you and would not allow you to continue the torture forever, at some point, you would say, " that is it, cant do it anymore, cant continue the torture" So how then God, who is pure Love, can fill His heart with such hatred? He cant, it is impossible. Just think about yourself, think about the time when God would begin to torture lets say the well known conservative Jordan Peterson. Would you be able to fill your heart with such pure and dark hatred toward Jordan Peterson, that you would be completely fine seeing God torturing him forever and ever? I doubt you can, i really do. Then if you cannot imagine yourself filling your heart with such dark hatred, how can you think God would be able to do it? He cant and He wont. Therefore endless torture is not literally true.
The scriptures echo the fact that we die when we sin. Eternal life is reserved for only those gifted with it. There is no promise of God that says that you live forever in hell. He promised death and not eternal life. I want to know if you considering unconscious beings doing punishment. I'm not sure if I heard the response clearly
Blessings...I wanted to maybe ask then why is there “weeping and moaning and gnashing of teeth” and when Jesus describes hell he says where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his image" Revelation 21:8 "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death" From just these two verses (there are many more) we can deduce that the punishment in the lake of fire will be eternal, an eternal living in that place of torment; just as those who have overcome and have walked with Jesus will have eternal life in His presence
Consider these biblical evidences on the subject: Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Both describe eternal…. Someone argue that the fire is eternal but the punishment isn’t internal, but the above scripture says the punishment is eternal!! Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might Explain this one away SDA… Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 Verse Concepts And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Proof sin is terrible!! 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
Let’s be really most sins are pointless and god himself is guilty of committing the ones that actually mean something, where frank would say murder is wrong because we are image holders of god I would say murder is wrong because you’re taking everything from multiple people with the flick of a wrist literally stealing everything from someone. Rape is wrong because it takes away the free will of someone else and leaves them traumatised. However we are temporary therefore prone to forget things the god of the bible knows all cause he has eternity to learn in peace so he can comprehend it. We find torture immoral cause it cause harm that can’t mend already broken bones, we don’t do life sentences for everything cause not everything is worth a life sentence. This is what makes use special our abilities to empathise is what separates use from animals
I would argue that the only time hell is eternal is if they commit the unforgivable sin, which is an eternal sin. Otherwise they are burning in hell until they simply cease to exist.
@silvergold1417 I'm not saying they avoid punishment by not going to hell did you not see the last part of my sentence where I said "otherwise they are burning in hell until they simply cease to exist meaning they are atoning of there sins through the punishment of hell until all there sins are atoned for through that method
Read Luke 16:19-31. The rich man was conscious in a state of torment. Hell is real just as heaven is real. Why would God give up His only Son to die for us sinners if there is no consequences for our sin? In Christ we are saved by abiding in Him through repentance and water baptism. God bless you
@@jorgetorres1318 this story of the rich man and the poor man is what they call an allegory, its different from a parable, it is making the point if you have money to spare you should look after the poor , for you are rewarded by what you do , GOD BLESS
@@gordo191 It's not a parable or an allegory. It's a real event that happened. Christ names Lazarus Abraham and Moses. And He gives the state of being for both. The rich man is in torment and is told by Abraham that he can't change His state of being ever. And the bigger point as I mentioned why would God let His Son die for us? He died to save us from hell. That is the only logical reason. Why do anything good before God if we just live and at death cease to exist? 2 Tes 1:6-10 states the disobedient will suffer eternal perdition. God bless
@@ISkeptic649 I have no evidence there is a hell. I never said there was. I also say since there is no evidence there isnt one, I'm not saying there isnt.
God doesn’t like when people suffer so he doesn’t want people to go to hell and burn up, but he doesn’t want wickedness in heaven so he wouldn’t let wickedness exist in heaven.
If people continue to sin in hell, don't you think people will sin in heaven too? Or do they become mindless robots in heaven? If that's the case, I'd rather burn in hell where I can still be me
Oh Erik, you don’t mean that! It’s not a place you want underestimate and it’s not a Master you want to mess with... He pleaded and warned us even sent His Torah in flesh to show us the do’s and Don’ts... please repent, take it back.. there is still time to repent or not. Truth Erik, not everyone is supposed to get Him... But if you seek to know His truth about the subject, consider these: Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Both describe eternal…. Someone argue that the fire is eternal but the punishment isn’t internal, but the above scripture says the punishment is eternal!! Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might Explain this one away SDA… Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” Proof hell burns forever and ever!! Revelation 20:10 Verse Concepts And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Proof sin is terrible!! 2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. Don’t mess with Yah!!
@@kingdomambassador1904 all that may scare you, but it doesn't scare me anymore. I am no longer convinced god, the devil and hell are real. It would be like me telling you, you have to die in battle or you won't go to Valhalla. All those scriptures you posted make god seem like a monster. He's an abusive spouse. Do what he says or he will torture you in hell. The excessive eternal punishment is for your own good. He hurts us because he loves us so much. ALL THINGS ABUSERS SAY. Eternal punishment for finite crimes? That sounds just to you? Why did god have to sacrifice (he didn't sacrifice anything because he still exists btw) himself, to himself to appease rules he made himself? Why not do it without the killing? Why did god reveal himself SO much in the bible but is nowhere to be seen now? Why am I not afforded that same amount of proof? The response I get to that question is "god wants us to have free will. If we knew 100% he existed, of course we would believe and choose to worship him." To that I call BS! Satan knows god exists and he still rebels. Or does satan not have free will because he knows god exists? If he doesn't, then everything satan has ever done to screw mankind HAS been gods will. Let that sink in. You see, there's WAY to many things in the bible that make no sense. Some stories and passages are questionable, while others are blatantly false. If that book is the inspired words of god, why would there be errors in it? If some of it's false, how am I supposed to believe an omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent (logically impossible btw) god created all this? You didn't respond to my question about sinning in heaven. Do people still have free will in heaven or are they robots? If you still have free will in heaven, won't you just sin like you do here on earth and need to be cast into hell? Or does belief in god mean you can sin all you want and get a pass in heaven? Like a double standard.
Objection #1: We are *not* temporal beings, created but eternal. God's gifts are without repentance. Our being, our life, is one of those gifts. Objection #2: God resists the proud as in: the proud reject the need of God in their lives. Hence the proud, the sinner, the disobedient, reject the sacrifice of Jesus, as the payment for their sins. Thereby choosing themselves to reject knowing God and eternal life, and accept death, which is eternal, conscious and hopeless, which *is* hell. God doesn't want to send people to hell. He does not want anyone of them to perish, but instead come to repentance to the Truth. People are blinded and ignorantly choose hell.
Then why doesn't he reach out to unbelievers more often? I'd probably say I'm agnostic and I've prayed that God may give me faith or some undeniable sign and sure I'll keep trying but I'm sick and tired of people using analogies that don't make sense. People say that unbelievers "reject" God and send themselves to hell but they don't. They just don't *believe* in God. And what about Muslims and Jews? They're monotheists and they pray to God. How come they're rejecting God? Just because they didn't *believe* in God? Disbelief and rejection are completely different?
@@hamez1300 People reject God by rejecting his sacrifice. Jesus was the sacrifice for the sins of humanity. If you reject Jesus you are rejecting God because Jesus is God. If you die in your sins not accepting the gospel then you will go to Hell. Jesus says our works cannot save us. Only he can because he lived a perfect and sinless life to die a horrific death for us on the cross and rose again on the third day. No man has ever done that.
@@huytruong7370 People don’t always or even often have control over their beliefs. They need to believe in such a sacrifice in order to believe it an at that point they become theists.
