That is really good content mate, cheers. Alltho there is actually a 4th option, witch I myself used back in Vanilla days, that resulted in about 15-18% dmg loss, rather 30%+. And that is SF CB Backstab ( sceptical about it? Here is why I used it and why it was better) As you said, EA SHOULD NOT EVER FALL! And that is absolutely correct. What I did was the following: SS with SF ( if needed use CB ) to get 5* for EA Continue your dps afterwards with x2Backstab and x1 sinister and then apply SnD at 3* You have exactly enough time if you don't screw up to build 5* afterwards using x3Backstabs + x2 Sinister ( 3sec before EA expires ). As I tried all the other spec options back in the day, this was literally the one that did best for me. I was at about 50% SnD and the dps loss was quite lower because of the Dps boost from Backstab. Try it out :) cheers and good day
Hey Sarthe! Oddly enough I thought I was the only SF sword expose rogue there was :P I actually theorized that(obviously) you can get expose up way faster than any of spec other than hemo, which, your damage is nonexistant. My guild runs about a 27min bwl. I actually was able to maintain 70% uptime without exposing razorgore and took about a 180k damage overall loss with trash and bosses even after wiping to the double drakes! Last weeks raid was a fluke. If you'd like, I'll post my guild logs here if you want to check them out after TUESDAY NIGHT you can have a look at my SF Swords expose logs :) finally some data on the spec!
Love the premiere and live content man! Always exciting to get a notification a day before like your favorite TV show your waiting to tune into :D. Really excited to get into this video man as always keep up the good work bro. The community needs people like you 🗡👊🏻
Don’t you think putting 3points into ruthlessness would be a good option to give you more snd uptime and one more combo point to add into building for the next expose armor? I ran the spec and it seemed to work pretty well.
This was made when BWL was the parsing raid and most current so Murder made sense. Now that AQ is out, I dropped 1 out of Imp Poison and dropped both in Murder and slotted 3/3 Ruthlessness. Seems to work out well too.
My rogue is imp exp armor for AQ40 but was testing etc in BWL. Given energy only recovers at a fixed rate - procs and the debuff only lasts 30 sec it gives not much time to get it refreshed allowing for any running, fears etc. Also, your combos should be from spamming SS as uses a lot less energy per combo and no facing restrictions. Also, using energy to kick etc is a luxury as sometimes because of fight mechanics refreshing on time comes down to the wire. (2/2 Imp sinister strike) I found best was the seal fate spec where I can get extra combo's on SS crits and have 10 extra energy in my pool. However because of the talent and being a gnome I have to use my 2 warblades for the +8 swords skill. Also, because it only makes sense to do it with 5 combos you must be on the intended target only. For some trash I do it before the raid move to that target and I'm off to the next one as my previous target will be dead before the debuff goes. The cold blood skill is great to get very fast initial debuff. After a debuff I usually try and get 2-3 combos of slice and dice if > 22 seconds is left. If < 22 seconds is left... everything goes into refreshing the next debuff ASAP. My build classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/305323125001051-025005201005 also tries to maximise survival skills.
From a warrior perspective; this only applies to AOE tanking without thunderfury; on single target its not very viable to have your main tank do this; Most of us will foregoe imp battleshout for the Imp sunder armor + imp dual wield as furyprot and with thunderfury its better for us to have higher offhand dmg since our TF procs do more threat making it so you want to up your offhand swing dmg for higher threat. as well is more reliable threat gen than a shout spam. ALSO not every group runs the minmax and achieve top parses on individual levels; No the raids will not do 30 second kills but their avaliable group comp is the main reason not because they arent using these tricks. At the end of the day figure out what works best for your groups composition.
In the video, you mention for seal fate spec, once you get 3 CP up you can macro cold blood with another SS. What did you mean by that/what would the macro look like?
Hey Sarthe, amazing video, as always. I'm pretty sure it doesnt exist but i will ask anyway: do you know any weakaura that shows how long it took to apply EA on target ? There is one kinda similar for warriors and sunders, but changing it to work for EA instead of sunder stacks is way too complex for me.
Okay, I can't get section 5.1 of Simonize's guide to add up. 3731Armor - 505 for Faerie Fire (Feral) - 290 for CoR = 2936. Sunder is 450 per stack or 2250 total. Improved Exposed Armor = 1700 * 150% = 2550 total. For sunder 2936 - 2250 = 686 Armor or about 10.44% dmg reduction. For Imp EA 2936 - 2550 = 386 Armor or about 6.16% reduction. I must be missing some talent somewhere for FF or CoR or something. This seems great for melee heavy groups where many are pushing very high DPS. Not sure how it plays out is a more "normal" or "classic" raid comp. It's likely even worse in 20 mans, like ZG where there are fewer physical DPS to benefit and the fights are more in/out as well.
Just got Claw this week and rolling imp EA for my raid. Is there a rough rotation to follow as combat fists for this? Obviously I will be opening with 5pt expose, but after that will I be trying to get any 4-5 pt evis in any fights? Or just SnD and refresh expose? My guild clears decently fast on most fights. Also what about on trash? Should I be trying to get expose up on skull?
Sarthe, do you know what the hemo spec for this would be? It looks like Onslaught uses a coldblood hemo spec for their world record speed clear but idk why.
I'd like to see the Hemo/Seal Fate spec tested with this. I used to run it myself and it was very productive with world buffs. classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/rogue/30532312500105--502250102030001
the damage on that specific rogue was soooooo bad it was an overall dps loss 100% he ran hemo cold blood which he may haev gone seal fate with that spec....but he took a huge damage loss doing so its not even worth imo
@@jaygriffyuh They were melee stacked, so it was worth the quicker combo point gen. In turn putting the debuff up sooner. In a standard comp, it's not worth it tho
JayGriffyuh if you’re running a melee comp it definitely is worth it.... even at a huge Dps loss. Would you rather have 29 Dps or 28 dps and a dark moon fair buff? Yeah.
I have been noticing some top guild utilizing the expose armor, but most of their conclusions have been that Dagger rogue should be utilizing the spec for full potential ( Due 30%-35% crit for backstab ) and added weapon skill from core leather gloves. The only reason I would assume using swords above daggers in seal of fate spec, would be that many aq40 bosses are a pain to bs. Bit more theorycrafting might happen, but I would not rush for going this as swords.
it's actually more than a 5% increase (assuming you're not rounding and not speaking freely); it's about 5.37%. Think of it like discount rates and interest rates: if your discount rate is 'd' then your equivalent effective interest rate is i=d/(1-d). If the damage mitigation is d, then the raid dps increase is i when d is taken away. So using that page's calculation, the delta is 5.1% mitigation so i=.051/(1-.051)=.0537. That extra 0.37% extra over the 5 you mentioned is, if we assume raid dps is 28k, nearly an entire extra ret pally :D
But yes, add that whole 5.37% raid dps increase though and yes you're looking at nearly two extra dps: 1/20th of the raid of 28 dps (excluding tank damage) is 1.5 average dps personnel.
Hey! Great video. So for 30/21/0 Seal fate. Whats the thoughts on Glancing damage as an undead rogue I don't have mala/talents for +swords. So whats the story there!! Thank you!!
any chance it would be better to use 3 points in imp poison instead of 3 points in evisc as alliance? or do you get a lot of evis off even with number one prio being expose armor? as SF Sword ofc
you make fist weapon spec exactly like sword spec , except you put your sword specialization points into fist weapon specialization points. the reason people dont play with fist weapons is that you cannot use sharpening stones on them and you don't have a offhand or item that increases your weapon skill . not in classic anyway . still , the best and maybe only way to play fist weapon spec is combat , just like the sword spec .
On short fights its actually legit i have eskhandar and claw it does very good dps, but longer the fight goes higher the chance of swing proc. Long as you have better dps weps fist is not bad(esp if you are full world buffed %5crit is legit if you have a feral in grp aswell
@@georgegeorge8960 If I used Claw of drake with Warblade of Hakkari over Corehound tooth...what pts should i spec..just the 5 into fist? I wanted to see if i could get sword procs also but might not be worth?
I’m expose armor rogue in our raid. I used claw of drake with bb last night. We cleared as usual but I saw a dps loss compared to vis’kag. I’ll switch back to vis’kag next time.
I've said it before, but ill explain myself further this time. These premieres make it less likely for me to actually watch your video. I am subscribed to a lot of channels, and I primarily access youtube through my subscription feed. The videos are sorted chronologically, and while i don't watch every video I tend to look the the thumbnails and title to at least see if i'm interested. I watch the video, I go back to my subscription feed, now that video shows as viewed. Now because the video is showing as viewed I do not look past this point of my subscription feed anymore, its a waste of my time as I know I have scanned those already and nothing took my interest. I saw this thumbnail, I'm here, I'm interested, I want to watch the video. Problem is, I cant watch the video and in 3 hours when I can, your video will be down in my sub feed out of site out of mind. Maybe others don't use youtube the same way as myself, but I cant see why you would do this for content that isn't actually live.
I guess the option is to schedule the release without the Premiere option turned on? because Sarthe definitely sets these as a "set and forget" kinda thing, so the video gets posted automatically
Woula love to see a PTR test, seal fate daggers taking imp EA with darkmantle 4set, the energy regen may compensate for the energy starve to make it viable?
I know this question might have been asked before but i cant find it, People keep saying that having over 2 thunderfury's in 1 raid creates a "invisible" debuff. Is this true by any means?
Sarthe, You are missing one crucial talent in your combat build that makes keeping EA + SND uptime as high as possible in Ruthlessness. Drop 1 imp poison, drop 2 lethality. fill out Ruthlessness. It will play SOOOOO much better dude. 5pt ea into 2pt snd, 3 if you get a ruthlessness proc. highest eauptime with 100%snd uptime... i feel like you skipped the homework and the garcia sims.
I'd imagine dropping a second point from lethality would be better than dropping 1 from aggression. Overall agree with you though, either option is preferable to not running ruthlessness.
@@XxSwiftDemisexX my initial response was mispoken on which points to drop. i have been running the spec you suggest for quite a while. first comment has been edited to reflect your suggestion.
To get wbuffs on the PTR, you just transfer your character over when you're fully buffed in the live game. there's not 'buff me' button and you cant give yourself gear.
No, I already have it, by mistake.. might as well use it! And have been looking speccing seal fate, which wasn't a very good, but mixing it with expose armor could be a thing by the looks of this video.
I've been thinking about suggesting Imp EA for my raids, but confused what the hell our tanks are supposed to dump with -_- I think I saw something about 30 threat per BS hit? And I guess that's per refresh also? Guess I'll look for a Warrior video now~
Yeah, the only option for tanks to fill globals when BT/Revenge are on CD is battle shout. Luckily, battle shout hitting all 4 targets is roughly 85% of the threat caused by sunder. It worth to note that sunder can proc WF while battle shout obviously cant, so horde tanks will notice a bigger difference
@@Kirbstompd its very good only thing is sunder gives good threat, unless your warriors insta sunder first hit to stack it to 5 anyway esp with world buffs
I just got that claw too..I have CHT to OH with it..but say i got Warblade of Hakkari OH from zg..is there any viable way we can put pts into sword spec along with the 5/5 pts into Fist for the crit? or no
@@karbehemoth yeah but its a huge dps loss when your 5cps get dodged and generally ure left out with weird energy (ie 27) getting dodged on evis is worse ofc
Hey Sarthe, Ive tried to look for this guide in wowhead and somehow cant find, can u link the guide please? Thanks in advance and will definetely try the Seal Fate spec for raid!
Never be the iea rogue if your leadership does not appreciate you doing it or is simply not knowledgable enough to see the benefit for the raid. They will see a rogue doing less dps and assume you are bad.
no subtitles :( Why u use combat instead hemo? I think hemo rogue faster stack 5cp and increase hemorrage +7 to high damage weapons (its about ~50 dmg crit backstab). In my opinion hemo > combat. How to sim it?
You're right. It doesn't. Imp EA is more armor reduction than a 5 stack of Sunder Armor. Your tanks will not be able to sunder, so they have to use Battle Shout/Demo Shout to rage dump/threat gen in place of Sunder Armor.
whats your opinion on this build: classicdb.ch/?talent#fhefRxzVZGcZV0e you would use the macro: /cast Cold Blood /cast Ambush /cast Limited Invulnerability Potion /cast Evasion as your first GCD, followed by a Backstab on your 2nd GCD followed by Expose Armor as your 3rd GCD. The build has a 75% chance for your Cold Blooded Ambush to apply 3 combo points to the boss followed by a rough chance of about 70-75% of adding another 2 combo points off your Backstab (i usually get 40% crit chance fully world buffed and consumed plus the bonus off Improved Backstab). Thats a 5cp Expose armor in 3 seconds. Both Renatakis and Cold Blood have a 3min cd, potions are 2 min. But as long as youre not progressing through bosses any faster than that it should work on most bosses.
