61 poise is the most popular poise breakpoint for pvp since a lot of the powerstance l1s with light weapons (ss, cs, katanas, spears etc.) deal exactly 60 poise damage, thus leaving you with 1 poise to not get staggered
Before watching - I have to say how appreciative I am, as well as many of your viewers, of how you chose to 'take it upon yourself' to do some PvE testing. When I see other people comment on other X creator's videos of similar subject matter: "This is my new favorite ER content creator" The very first thing that crosses my mind is "Ah they must not have seen Youwy's videos yet." Thank you for providing these videos. The testing takes time and I think you do great work - always concise, structured, and well-considered. Looking forward to learning.
Just so everyone knows poise in this game is broken. Poise works when being “passive poise” but you lose poise as you attack. Even more so colossal weapons are supposed to have hyper armor when attacking but you actually lose poise when you attack as well. I think with the math is that you end up having more poise with a halberd than a colossal. Also poise acts like health and depletes with hits but regenates to full in about 30 sec. It’s why you can take a few hits with bullgoat but even after 5 sec you have to wait till around the 30sec mark for it to be reset… As a matter of fact you can use the ash of war endure to reset your poise health back to full. Imo they need to buff colossals and fix poise in this game. Lastly, bullgoat talisman does not increase poise. Only poise “health”
@@gottagotag6980 well not really, they didn’t explain it well but for example 60 poise just with armour is worse than 60 poise that you reached with bullgoats talisman it’s dumb, the talisman updating the poise stat is just a visual representation not what it’s actually doing
I heard someone saying that in PvE, enemy attacks break either 60 or 120 poise, with no variation aside from that. That may not be true, but based on your testing here, it might be close to the truth. I take it you did testing by equipping different poise amounts like 10, 20, 30, etc until you could see a difference? It's a real shame that under 60 poise does jack squat. I wish I knew why the developers did that. It makes no sense.
I don't know I noticed some weaker enemies in limgrave attacks don't do anything with around 30 poise, I get pretty lazy farming so I just go with thrust spam an try get a quick kill while enemies are attacking
While I had Elden Ring installed, I almost never had more than 45 poise given that the armor required to get to 60 poise looks hideous and I wasn't wasting a talisman slot just to raise it.
@@plantman1093 I was, and I found it utterly disappointing. Some sets, like the Kaiden set, look good, but I had a fair bit of trouble mixing different pieces. In general, the knight armor sets were all quite heavy while offering hardly any more poise than light armor. Not that it mattered much though, since basically all knightly armaments are wielded without elegance aside from 2 chunky longswords (or greatswords if you are stupid and don't know proper terms) that kind of suck. In the end, I just reverted to being naked with club.
you can get a good looking elden bling with at least 61 poise, poise talisman or great jar, erd tree+2, 20-25 endurance (depends on what weapon you use)..you just have to mix & match armor sets
Fashion over poise all day everyday, but during my incantation only run I had to put poise armor to stop getting flinched by Rykard's annoying pool of lava surrounding him. All of the super heavy armor sets are really ugly on female characters.
@@OMEGA_THE_HOLLOW 60 I’m using the best looking armor with barely any damage absorption best part about this game is the dodge button and the jump button who needs poise
Kinda ridiculous how much poise you need for it to even be noticeable. Only the heaviest armors in the game can even reach that 60+ poise threshold. Literally 90% of the armors in this game are useless poise wise.
I love Elden Ring but I hate the armor/poise system in this game - like 90% of all armors have little to no poise so what was the point of making 61 the magic number when that leaves you with only a couple ugly choices. They should have made more diverse poise levels for mobs in the game. Developers really dont think through some of this shit.
This is why i'm very much bothered by armors in this game...the number of sets that get you to 60 poise are quite low, they also make you look fat, sluggish, and most have some over the top useless attachments...not everything that is unique looks good Fromsoft! So in essence, if you wanna look good in armor, you're gonna have to give up on poise or lose a talisman slot for the goat's talisman and it won't help that much either.
Did you try test 51 poise? I tested 50 vs 51 poise and have found 51 is enough to poise through 1 regular attack for a lot of mobs. Was there anything you could poise through at 61 that you couldn’t at 51?
61 is mainly the pvp number as weapons like katanas and a few other classes of medium weapons do 60 poise damage for a 1 handed light attack. Honestly in pve the difference between 51 and 61 poise should be negligible. You’ll really only see major returns on poise in pve past 100 from my understanding.
Armor in general doesn't really seem to matter in this game, I was walking around in fairly heavy armor (Blaidd's chestpiece with Banished Knight gauntlets and greaves) but I switched to lighter armors to use double UGS and I can't tell the difference. Weapon hyper armor seems to be much more effective than even the heaviest sets in the game.
@@thegamewin100 What's the incentive to jump around and dodge when we can trade attacks and win? Smart trading is always a reasonable approach. You should consider it.
how damage mitigation works is the higher your level you'll get higher base negation. when looking at defense stats this is the first number. all attacks that hit you will be reduced by a flat amount of this number. the remaining damage is put through youre defense % the second number. so lets say you have 100/ 20 and 100/40 if something hit you for 200 damage it would be (200-100)x.8 resulting in 80 damage for youre 20% for the 40% it would be (200-100)x.6 resulting in 60 damage. If we apply this to a harder hitting attack like 1100 (1100-100)x.8=800 or (1100-100)x.6 =600 damage
@@1blueeye kinda impossible to trade, greatswords and colossal swords in this game just suck, dual bleed naginatas, for instance, would always in trades against those weapons, also who tf decided that katanas should be as or even longer than greatswords and be that fast and why does nagakiba even exist in this game
Apart from poise not being particularly effective, I watched a video the other day (sorry I can’t remember the creator) and basically about 90% of the armor in this game provides very, very little poise to begin with. There’s an extremely limited amount of armors you can even equip if you WANTED to go for that 60 poise
Also keep in mind one of those sets is the tree sentinel set, which for whatever reason, weighs a lot more than the rest of the 60 poise armor sets, for no reason other than fashion souls tax I guess :(
@@UnknownZealot77 already is and has been for a while. Any build that actually wants to be competitive has to use veterans Lionel’s or bullgoats and at 125 or higher and it’s easy to work heavy armor into a build. It’s sucks because it’s a major pvp advantage to have 101 poise, so much so that it can negate most weapon classes from being somewhat effective. I can’t hate on people trying to optimize their builds but it sucks for fashion and originality in general. You want to look decent while you pvp? Ok take this massive handicap and there’s nothing you can do about it.
@@skarlock5257 The poise you need is actually 51, because enemies that deal that low amount of poise damage deal 50, not 60, and the Tree Sentinel set gives me 56 with the Twined helmet (the golden mask from D). And you can take the cloak out and be at 53 if you prefer it without the cloak. It's the set I'm using right now at lvl 153 on my Str/fth build. It is quite heavy tho, as you said, but the chest is almost as good as Veteran's.
Dark Souls 1 had the most correct and best idea when it comes to poise vs hitstun and every change made to poise since was an overcorrection to a non-issue. Not perfect, definitely needed work, but still the best. That's my hot take but its also the premise of this post, these are just a few of the things that hyper armour does wrong: Big weapons shouldn't have to swing first against faster weapons. You have to swing first in PvE and PvP to not get stunned by a dagger. Heavy armor should serve a dual purpose of protection vs hitstun AND damage, making the weight worth the stat investment. Big weapons have to have attacks that come out faster and faster to compensate for not being able to truly trade with smaller weapons, making a lot of weapon classes feel similar in attack speed. Big weapons need to slow down but need to be supported by an intended mechanic. Being stunned constantly is a cluster migraine that isn't necessary for good Souls gameplay. What does DS1 poise do wrong? One thing: a Bell Curve of effectiveness. Too low and you can't tank a hit from anything, too high past a certain point doesn't have any real benefit. It only mattered to have poise right in the middle, enough to take a single hit from any weapon, but not to over shoot it and save on stats and weight. This combined with stunlocks, which shouldn't be a thing, and slow recovery made the combat feel clunky and unpolished. My proposed solution in future from games/indie titles/souls-likes is something I've turned over in my mind for 5 or 6 years now. A weight vs weight system. All stuns and staggers are determined by your weight vs the weight of an attack. Each player would have a fixed amount of poise health at 100/100%. If your armor weighs 30 units and your sword weight 15, your attacks with that sword break 45 poise. So you have that 45 poise attack vs someone wearing armor thats 25 units of weight. Defending poise is factored in percent so 25 units of weight is 25% poise damage reduction. 25% of 45 is 11.25 in reduction, making the attack do 33.75 poise damage to your total 100 poise health. The third hit from this setup would stun, rewarding a free second hit. But how would this fix the bell curve? If you get a free hit in after stun, how do you prevent stunlocks? And how would this replace hyper armour? First, it fixes the bell curve of DS1 poise because you'll ALWAYS be able to take atleast 1 hit from any weapon before stun, not just at the "perfect" poise. Say the heaviest armor in the game weighs 40 units, heaviest weapon weighs 60, can't imagine going this high but just for the argument, in the game there's no weapon+armor combo that can go OVER 100. Even if someone is wearing super-lightweight cloth armor at like 10 units, thats 10% reduction, making that hit do 90 instead of 100, you tank the hit. You never stun on the first hit. Second, after your stunned, your poise health immediately shoots back up to 80/80%. Poise would regenerate fairly slow, just not DS2/DS3 slow. Maybe 2 per second, it would really depend on the game. But either way, this would keep stunlocks from being a major issue while keeping a second hit on stun. Not to mention damage taken when stunned is reduced by 10%, it is a free hit after all. Lastly, there would be hyper armour. When attacking you add the weight of your armor and weapon together for poise damage. That poise damage is then reduced based on the defender's armor weight. But, when getting hit during an attack, you add your weapon weight to your reduction as well. Not as complicated as it sounds. Same example from earlier: One player has 30 unit armor with a 15 unit sword, their attacks do 45 poise damage. Their armor decreases incoming poise damage by 30%, and if they are hit in the middle of an attack the weight of their sword reduces the poise damage separately from the armor by another 15%. It's really important that its calculated separately as adding percents together get out of hand fast, leading players being too resistant to stun. The math isn't complex: If this player is hit with a 50 poise damage attack, its reduced by 30%, they take 35. And if they're in the middle of an attack that 35 poise damage is reduced again by the weight of the sword in percent, 15%. Making the poise damage now 29.75, which is always rounded up, to 30 in this case. So what about going light with a big weapon and going heavy with a small weapon? Still recovering from full Havel Gold Tracer from 10 years ago. This unintentionally fixes both. Heavy armor with a small weapon won't have the reduction or poise damage to trade and light armor with something heavy won't either. Originally I was thinking bigger numbers with slightly different math. Like multiplying armor and weapon weight together and having 1000 poise health instead. Like if you had 30 unit armor and 10 unit sword you'd multiply to get 300 poise damage, which is then reduced by your opponent's weapon times their armor, say they have the same setup at 300 poise damage/reduction, that equates to 30% of 1000, so it reduces incoming poise damage by 30%, going from 300 to 210, stunning in 5 hits. Its goes without saying that you'd have to watch weight of everything very closely during game development. There's even a third way to do this same thing: By having weight still at the head of the mechanic. Your armor weight boosting the poise damage of your weapon, both by weight. This would figure 100 poise health. 30 unit armor boosts the poise damage of your sword of 15 by 30% to make it 19.5 (20). Reduction would work in reverse, without hyper armour your armor would just simply reduce all incoming poise damage by 30%, during an attack that 30% gets a 15% bonus, going to 34.5% (35%) I don't really know the general consensus on poise but its really, really often when I see posts all over, YT videos, and streams saying that a hyper armour-only system doesn't work and takes away from the games for a fair amount of people. If any of these ideas seem interesting be sure to share it around, get attention from RU-vidrs, whatever. Credit to myself Occult_Claymore
Keep in mind, Poise is indeed helpful on the bigger attacks As I've been running 87 poise and the Guts Sword, and I've been able to tank multiple hits and jumping attacks as long as I'm actually charging a heavy swing
Have you tested with 51? I've read somewhere that the breakpoints are 51, 61, ... not 50 or 60. Because many enemies deal 50 poise damage and you will get stagged when your poise reach 0
So this is really good testing, and i'll make sure i try and hit 60 poise from now on... but i have to ask- did you try some of the attacks that broke poise *WHILE* doing an attack of your own? swinging a two-handed weapon, or using an active animation from an ash of war or spells with innate hyper armor should increase your ability to withstand attacks more than the default amount. That seems really important to try.
@@pearlspring6328 I'm going to need a link to *something* testing that, because I know that two-handing a colossal gives you extra poise, even if you were wearing low poise gear. I know things work weird, but generally, active frame hyper armor is *clearly* a thing in this game, and boosting poise can take it even higher- i.e. using wild swings, or dragonclaw/dragonmaw, the 1.04 lightning spells. I feel like stuff is getting thrown around a bit too freely without much data backing it up. I usually wear lionel's for big poise for big boys, but I haven't ever gone full bull-goats, I just know the maximum poise tests done with it.
This is good information. I have very low poise and I keep wondering about wearing armor to increase it, but based on this I would have to wear much heavier armor than I really want to. Actually, since armor protection is fairly useless unless it is really high (because every boss kills you in 2 hits regardless) I might as well stick with light load or use a shield more.
i have a question i was try to get a balance between shield and poise can u investigate it some boss can be broken by using a shield and a speer or any weapon just blocking till they stand still and dmging them till they die
Sometimes I feel like higher poise gets me killed from multi hit attacks that would have knocked me down otherwise. Stuff like the rolling blood frog guys would do insane damage to me with heavy armor since I'd tank a couple hits before getting launched instead of being knocked down instantly. Could have been unlucky angles or something, but a lot of the time hyper armoring or tanking through attacks results in me taking so much damage I question whether it's worth it.
dogs dont stagger you when you have over 100 poise. you can get this by using the veteran set which you can buy after killing niall. you also need the bullgoat talisman which gives you 33% more poise. now you should have 105 poise and most light attacks from enemies should not stagger you.
Ive noticed that poise isnt useful because too many things could interrupt your attack. At around the 30th - 40th hour i stopped caring and just used whatever looks cool or has best protection in x situation. Good to know that 60 is the threshold for it to work. I dont think I ever put it that high since I never bothered to use my jar talisman outside of letting my dex build carry a zweihander…. Very informative pve stuff here :>
Its because every single enemy will hit you for either 50 or 100 poise damage. Nothing in between. If this is just because they rushed it out the door, I'd call it trashy development that might get fixed. But I don't think its that innocent, this is intentional garbage, and it won't be fixed.
Youwy i have to disagree, poise is broken in pvp, in pve it doesn't matter as much but in pvp it is very broken to stack poise all the way to over 120 compared to having around 60
Poise probably most important against bosses when they are doing their combo so you can get hit once and roll our of the way but! The problem is when the boss first hit already staggered you and the 2nd attack become unavoidable and you died. Make you think better to just up your Vigor or wear armour with higher physical defence.
I have always been curious if Poise when using an Ash of War is different What should your poise be at if you don't want your Ash of War to be interrupted by Boss attacks?
Doesn't poise affect the hyper-armor as well? Which would mean, poise doesn't "kind of suck". Because it would still help you in certain ashes of war and during certain spells.
Hey man, I have been going through all your videos and they are great. Could you please make videos on best shortbow/bows/greatbows etc. I really want to know which are the best out of those bows
Test it with Endure. Endure greatly increase poise for a short period of time. How much poise you need, using Endure, not to be interrupt by Zamor, for example.
Poise needing to be so high for the poise to really kick in to effect is a bit a bummer. On a side note; blocking is similarly also pretty much useless on anything below a greatshield for larger enemies, and guard countering (an exciting new feature to combat) pretty much dies off once you get to the point where most enemies have tons of poise or just rapidly attack. Was a real bright idea to nerf the greatshield talisman; and not the actual greatshields, but the devs do seem to want you to just dodge or jump more. lol
I probably only reach 60 on my STR character using the full Veteran's Set. My Arcane/ Faith character is almost there with the Banished Knight Set, but I have the White Mask on instead of the full set, which would give a total of 60 poise exactly if I wore the helmet.
If anything you easier to stagger. You lose poise when you attack so on greatswords, if you attack and get hit by daggers in the beggining of your animation you will get staggered but not when you do nothing. I think it's a bug...I hope
@@Crouton- it makes me so mad when im in the heaviest armor i can get. max poise and still a foot soldier knocks me out of a animation. feel like i should just wait to play till they buff it or something 2 hand feels so boring because of it
Developers when they develop a poise system and then only give over 50 poise total for the ugliest most wretched fucking equipment but also make it so like every enemy does like 50 poise damage so that any other armor is literally useless
@@jonathanrivera870 that’s the number I heard from Revan619 and Chasetherbro. I don’t remember exactly, but it’s the amount you need to take, or trade hits with a certain weapon class under colossals. Spear or halberds I think. 61-67 is the usually poise range they’re aiming for. That’s why so many people use the veterans set. So much poise.
lol, another youtuber literally just posted a video about poise. Nizar GG . lol. did something happen in game? oh pve poise though. think his was mostly pvp (he briefly mentions pve too)
