It’s interesting because the same concept of “turns” also exists in fighting games. When you perform a move that leaves you vulnerable at the end of it, your “turn” ends there and you now have to respect your opponent’s response/counter move.
@@KROW_OW Not really, people literally just call it "turn" lol For example, when one does a move that leaves them vulnerable at the end (called "minus"), they would say "That's the end of my turn". Taking this idea a bit further, there's also the concept of "turn steal" which is when you do an attack that technically ends your turn, but you do it in such a way that the opponent doesn't realize it. So you get to have 2 turns (or more) back to back.
Ive always known about the whole idea of repositioning but the accuracy and consistency of this whole turn based way of playing the game makes total sense and lines up with this particular match perfectly. kind of crazy.
Reposition is a key for Widow thats for sure. Nice to watch some really good gameplay from high skilled player perspective and also great analysis. TY for content! Your channel is a real fresh air in OW YT. Pretty tired of other streamers with their ego highlights from stream.
Wouldn't call those ego highlights, they need views for a living and highlights are pretty much the surefire way to get into it. Maybe try to understand where these content creators stand before making harsh comments
@@user-vs2hp5vt3r Highlights most of the time just Ego plays when they are Pop-off, and most of the time you dont see actual gameplay when they got rekt, doing stupid things, missplays and etc. You wathcing highlights with clickbate name like "This is how i climb to top500 with Cassidy in OW2" and etc with literally average just good gameplay without any comments about things. Not imformative, just content for funbase whos jerk around of this exact streamer. Educational content a lot more helpfull and imformative for people rewatch these videos from time to time to get some things clearer. These videos has a lot of views but it takes real HARD work to create educational content. Highlights is just about click button for "Save", open Premier Pro, cut some things, drop with clickbate name. Scenario? nah, Knowledge? nah, just ego plays with lazy work to get some views.
This is what I try to tell people on the ladder in comp. The best widows are the widows that always reposition. But then again when I tell them they still go and get picked by a widow that’s in the same position she was after she killed them.
I love these videos, seriously good production value and information. I am stunned that you don't have more subscribers (in a nice way) this channel will be huge soon for sure
Perfect timing to post this straight after prophet becoming an fa and posting his lft, a good way for people less familiar with him to get a feel for his game. I would not be shocked at all if he gets picked up for owl this year but with how stacked hs market is I could see him staying in contenders for another year.
I'm a Gm player (tank/support) and I've never heard of the turn concept. It's eye opening and just what I was looking for to level up my game Update: turntaking allowed me to hit gm2 on Tracer!
"Don't double peek" is the same concept. I am sure you have heard of double peeking. There is also a term called "double backing" is when you make it look like you are leaving your spot after peeking there once but in fact you peek there again but with an unexpected timing. (I have heard this term in Quake)
@Shifty I do double backing!! As ball it only works with good players it seems. Tricking the zen with discord and turning back when it drops is a good one (didn't know there was a term)
huh, I’ve been playing this game for 5 years now and it’s the first time I’m acquainted with the concept of the ‘turn’. Seems very comprehensive, I see now how my play was lacking all along. Maybe it’s finally time to leave gold😂
i dont think she turned around to not get head shot because if she did she would have been looking down. pretty sure tracer ran out of blinks and didnt realize
I mean if you are the main sniper for O2 blast… you know you are cracked out of your mind good at what you do. I watch a lot of MN3 lately. When he is on, he might be the best raw aim I’ve ever seen. In flexibility, consistency, reliability etc he isn’t like a LIP or a Shy yet, but just aim… less than a hand full can dare to rival him. He is of course a lot more flashy than say an Ans who plays more reserved, holding low risk high reward narrow angles. It’s fun to watch.
I've never heard the concept of a turn in an an FPS/Moba setting. Sure there's a back and fourth and a bit of an ebb and flow, I just don't think "turn" is the appropriate word use. Guess it depends on how you break down the game, as someone like A10 also uses the "lane" idea from moba and applies it to OW which others don't. Still something to think about, and it may help some to realise that you do only have a window of time as DPS before the pressure is really on.
These types of games against this level of a widow feel SO BAD. Just feel so helpless as a DPS when the widow can flick 1-shot a tracer at close range....gg go next
i'm not too much into OWL and contenders. i remember there was a very good dps player called PROFIT. i assume we are not talking about the same guy. right?
This one is an O2 Blast player named Prophet! He's a very high prospect player, so I think it's likely he will eventually get picked up by the OWL. Who knows, maybe he will become the next Profit?
Widow isnt overpowered because she's too good, she's op because she's fundementally broken, along with Hanzo and Sojourn's railgun. one shots at and below the longest available ranges is genuine bullshit, it makes snipers the best tanks in the game since they can deny all line of sight on them, and theoretically they even counter dive heroes. the only thing keeping them "balanced" is how much skill they take, which several other heroes take more skill than either Hanzo or Widow
It's not fun to go up against Widow in a "shieldless meta". If I dropped my shield without communicating it as Rein and enemy Widow got a pick, then my bad, my L. But now we have the same Widow but not the same Rein. Sure she's back to 175 again, but I think there will be more drastic changes to oneshots in either s4 or s5. On maps like Junkertown a Widowdiff can be the sole reason why one team won over the other. Not fun gameplay. At least she wasn't/isn't on the level of Roadhog, right.
Great video, I love the turns concept. I have one piece of constructive feedback: OW replays show the game from the server's perspective, rather than any individual player. The server keeps an objective record of the timestamps of every action taken, but it doesn't accurately portray what *each player was seeing at what time.* (due to latency) So while replays are good for observing strategy and swapping between player perspectives, they're really terrible for observing gunplay. In this video, there are a ton of headshot kills where if you go frame by frame, the replay clearly shows widowmaker fired at their body from the server's perspective. Not sure how much this bothers the average viewer but it's really jarring to me. Ideally you could use footage from prophet's twitch vods to get his actual perspective.
@@KROW_OW well, before he posted LFT, where he said he is still in talks with O2 blast, now he posted LFT without the O2 part. This means, that he is negotiating with an owl team (probably shock, they need hard hitscan, he knows the players there and O2 is shock's academy) and is just exploring his options (max and heesang did the same thing)
@@KROW_OW From CSGO experience- pros are usually the ones who cheated the most. Dont get me wrong I love ur videos, but Im skeptical to these "too good" players
￢o(￣-￣ﾒ)Turns feel like a weird way of saying you've been spotted I've yet to hear any streamers or youtubers say turns is that new? maybe I'm wrong and it's not weird
It's a bit more extensive then just being spotted, the turn for widow is significantly shorter so it's almost identical to just being spotted = need to move, but for other heroes and roles, the concept extends past that. It's not a common term in the west, but it's considered one of, if not the most important concepts to know!
Its a turn because of your cooldowns. Game theory would be akin to a baseball batter 3 strikes (3 opportunities to get a kill, with a 50/50 chance you died on the 3rd one after the kill if there is no enemy sniper that killed you on the second). Thats why a good widow, has to reposition often. The first shot gives away your position. The second shot in the same spot, you are being contested or dead.
Idk man. I think widow doesnt fit into the style of overwatch. Her design is completely counter-intuitive to the rest of the game. I think she makes games boring and frustrating, especially for new players. She should be removed or reworked.
yes definitely. if i'm playing widowmaker i shouldnt be able to one shot headshot tracer with nano boost and baptiste amplification matrix and if tracer has orb of discord
@@samhhhhh Blizzard has already said they will be addressing the one-shot issue in future patches. Looks like head shot may do 149 damage in the future. Cry about it.
@@johnsonspark171 Don't know what's in the air today that every comment I make gets responded to with such vitriol. Relax my guy. They've specifically pointed to the "fantasy" of Widow being her one shot. If you're not familiar, the dev team has a part of a hero's kit they consider to be their "fantasy" that is central to the identity of the hero and which they will do everything they can to avoid changing. Some examples of this are Hog's hook (never been removed) and Sojourn's rail headshot (they've changed just about every other part of her kit). You can see this in the entire cast throughout all their reworks, there is still something that isn't changed or removed. The first change I'd guess we'll see is a change to damage falloff range, and one interesting idea I saw was a reverse damage falloff range where the further away a target is the higher the damage gets, making the one-shot harder since the targets would be smaller and further away. But no one-shot is pretty much the most unlikely change to her kit.
@@KROW_OW omg I have to try Brig moves in isolation on all these maps. Thanks for the reply. I absolutely adore your videos btw!! So much knowledge compressed to 10 minutes videos. Keep up the awesome work!
They do not balance for top 500. They balance for gold lol. If they balanced for GM, I wouldn't have sojourn in most of my games still, because they would have nerfed her more if they cared about our games. They want the average player to enjoy the game, so they adjust for them, not us.
And it's about time. OW1 was all about the pro players and balancing for them. The majority of players are Gold so it makes sense to give them the most attention Although I do agree, sojourn still needs another nerf
@@Jessespresso to be fair, OW1 didn't really balance around us either. They didn't really do a good job at it at all in OW1. They may have tried to balance for high ranks, but It felt like they only cared about the pro scene then. I don't like that they balance for low ranks, but it makes the most sense. Seeing as gold is the most populated. It's just very disheartening when they overlook the serious issues in ranked. And now they buffed mercy, who was already a problem. High rank mercy players don't care about the movement nerf, as they are now far more pivotal to a victory. She went from being an annoyance, to being meta. It's just crazy how little they think about how changes like that will affect the game across the board. I don't like playing games with the same 3-5 characters all the time. It's stale.
@@Jessespresso Balancing for the top level is balancing for skill. There are some things that need to be ironed out in lower ranks but skill should always win the day. Pretty straightforward
