Thanks for this! Quality content on the impacts of EV's (and the carbon-neutral future in general) to South Africa specifically. RU-vid has a lot of content on this subject but it's saturated with northern hemisphere perspectives.
Only if range, pricing and charging the EV won't be a problem. But keeping an internal combustion engine for those long Giyani trips 😂 I'd have both EV and gas powered car.
Such an excellent interview. Thanks Alex for clearing and busting all the myths about EVs in SA. We should be lobbying with all relevant stakeholders to get us into transitioning to EVs ASAP
Hi Chiro. Let's start with EV's we don't get: 1. Opel and Peugeot which are rated for over 200miles (320km) 2. VW, the E Up! at around 160miles (256km), and the ID derivatives with over 250miles (400km) and 3 different battery sizes in the 3 and 2 in the bigger versions that are at the 300+miles (480+km) 3. Honda has a car with around 110miles to 125miles(176km to 200km) 4. Hyundai have vehicles with 220miles (old Ioniq) (352km) or the Kona with the sister company Kia E-Niro with 2 batteries of which the smaller battery goes close to the 350km and larger battery much closer to the 500km range. Now the perks: 1. Stopping at home and plugging in like your cellphone or laptop. 7.2kW charging is possible with some being limited to 6.6kW or like the older Nissan's at around 3.2kW. Less chances of being at a garage at night filling your car. Cost of refilling being around 25% of what your petrol or diesel will be. 2. You don't need the home charger. As the granny cable is slower, remarkably slower than the home wall box, but still capable of charging your car. The slower charging and keeping your car charged between say 20-80% will saves the batteries. Where Europe and America has proven the rapid chargers deteriorates batteries a bit faster as in keeping the cars battery completely full or super low with turtle mode (petrol light stages guys). 3. We'll have less people stuck on the roads because they ran out of fuel, as you will begin to put thought into the day or weeks trips and what you need the car charged at. If I take the Mini Cooper SE, rated at 140ish miles (240km). Some motoring journalist only managing around 100miles (160km) hard driving and acceleration. Owner putting out videos of how the car reacts to a more controlled driving method and reporting over 160 miles (256km) with 10-15% battery left. If I need to go back to the station am posted and not helping out, I have a weeks worth of driving with running to the shops and back, with battery life left, and a few days of the next week too. So need to charge once a week, twice at most. 4. The 2 hours drive and stop to stretch your legs and rest before driving on. EV's will most likely for that, and a 30 minute rapid charge wouldn't be felt, as you go to the loo, go buy food at an Engen 1 Stop or Shell Ultra City. And by the time you ate and got back to the car, the next leg of the trip is ready for you to tackle. But people think of it as. Takes me 5 minutes to refuel. I've mostly stopped at a garage with 3 or 4 cars ahead of me, and waiting for 15 minutes before it is my turn. So mense, moenie vir julle lieg en se n garage stop is net 5 minute nie. Vra ouers hoe n kind altyd iets van die winkel wil he. 5. Okay, a Mini won't make it to Laingsburg in one go, unless you drive slower from Cape Town, but Worcester has a DC Rapid charger at the mall, just off the N1. Yes Upington drivers, the first and last charger on the N7 is there by Langebaan side, so that road isn't littered with options. The N1 has chargers spaced out to have a relaxing drive from Cape Town to Gauteng. And yes, Better Route Planner doesn't have enough data to give you an appropriate plan. So look at the chargers and put in your destination by hand and find out which speed is viable and go 10km/h slower, so you make it without stressing over, did BRP lie or not. 6. Less stuff to service, just your brakes and checking your cars battery status, and some moving parts. Niks olie of filters mense. 7. You might switch to solar and a backup battery just to charge your car, making it free to run after those items have been purchased. 🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫. Until you do a long distance trip 🙈🙈🙈🙈. So the initial money spent is the problem. Keeping the car 10 years isn't. Negatives: 1. Prices are bad, snd not taking that bootless wonder with 100km range into consideration that was just released. The Mini is around R680k (using the other countries as we had two specs, and the second disappeared from the Mini site, a level 2 with heated seats and steering wheel should be standard on EV's as the AC uses more power). 2. Rapid charger infrastructure sucks big time. Not ready for lots of road trips with many drivers on the road, and yes day to day driving we got our homes to charge at, unless you live in a flat without a garage where you can charge, then a rapid charger is necessary. 3. Car companies are refusing to bring in EV's that are cheaper because our car buyers are deemed to not be interested, but our salaries don't span to most basic in my mind of EV's, once again looking at something that can do 200+km range and leaves the Mini as the best option, or a second hand BMW i3 with the 94Ah at least as an option, as the Mini has that battery pack in. 4. Mini jump R100k you get the next option the BMW i3, jump R400+k and you get the Volvo XC40 Recharge with over 400km rated range, en wie het R1.2mil vir n kar? Beautiful but expensive. We jump again with a mil or so for the Jaguar I Pace, and jump another mil and we get the Porsche. Bot putting PHEV's in, as people don't see the perks of it as they also expensive. Drive mostly on recharging your battery for day to day, and those longer trips use your fuel as well to make up for the range you don't have and relieving your range anxiety. 5. That stupid luxury tax keeping the EV's away. Side note. The Nissan we once had, has a replacement pack and countries have replacement packs that can do almost 300km to the charge. Another 10+ years because it isn't liquid cooled. Thinking rationale, EV's does make sense with forethought.
This was so informative. Awesome 👍For a developing country and low average wages, I'm guessing the R70k electric cars from China is most welcome. Makes considerable sense. But even at the more expensive Haval GWM vehicles, safety in the form of crash testing certification is the area where most improvement is needed. Just having the safety features is not good enough without the reputable crash testing certification or high scores. I work from home now(like many South Africans) so one EV car and one Hybrid/Petrol vehicle makes a lot of sense.
I listened to you guys talked for 40 minutes but didn't even dive deep in SA issues regarding EV and dismissing some issues as "childish" 1. Charging a car is much different to a smartphone 2. Eskom is a real issue mind you. 3. Not everyone lives in houses, a lot of car owners live in apartment buildings, you didn't tackle that. 4. You didn't compare fuel vs electricity cost in SA, electricity is not cheap hey. 5. Most importantly, you didn't talk about the EV charging stations available in SA. I'm a "real estate agent who lives in an apartment building who drives a lot" and has decided to get an EV, where would it be charged? An extension cable from the 4th floor to the basement to charge?
Thanks for the great content, we need more education in how great and important EV have to play in reducing carbon etc. We need Gov to play their part and it would be great to have more "cheaper" Chinese EVs. P.S. Had a look and played around with the VWID3. Very nice, but unfortunately no test drives. 😁
Your best video I have seen. Proper quality content, and where the market is heading. Will be getting a Hybrid next year to try it out, and later possibly an EV
Thanks for the video, need more local journalists talking about EVs to help dispel the myths and get the general public excited about the future of motoring. South African middle class tend to be a conservative bunch, will take a lot of effort to change opinions, but is necessary, and armed with the facts, automotive journalists can play an important and positive role in bringing the country towards a more sustainable future.
Very informative, thanks guys. One comment though, why was there no Tesla discussion, they are clearly leading the EV development and demand, and no clear indication of availability in SA...
Cars are unaffordable in South Africa, goverment lazy or corrupted to make necessary changes to make manufacturers comply, Electric cars to expensive on South African market, cheapest around R500,000 for a simple EV
Agreeing on this point. There is nothing like a 1964 Ford Mustang V8's sound, okay my dream car. But as a realist, I know EV's are coming, but banning petrol or diesel cars all together won't make sense. In this case, the vehicles with classical status wil gain value by just standing. And even with the occasional Sunday run.
@@micheleheynes4298 that's a nice car. My current car is a w203 Mercedes C180 Kompressor with a 6 speed manual gearbox, probably the thing I'll miss the most having an EV.
🤔, This is very Interesting Topic, I wish you guys can have like a Monthly EV Discussion, to Also Give South Africans an Update on what is the Latest News on EV's International, with our Own Elon Musk Leading the Race its the least we can do. Actually Most South African Do Not Know that Tesla Cars are the Fastest SUV's and Cars in the World and that they are being Produced by a South African who was Born and Raised here in Pretoria, here in South Africa
1) I most definitely buy my vehicle to do long distance traveling. Driving down from Gauteng to the Western Cape is a regular occurrence for very many people. The same goes for going down to KZN. I don't think suggesting everybody must rather fly between the WC and GP is a genuine alternative... You really can't just consider your own use case to make an argument as to how people use their vehicles. 2) Load shedding - We have load shedding because Eskom cannot always handle the load requirements. Now lets increase the load by plugging in a few thousand electric vehicles. An electric vehicle obviously uses a lot more power to charge compared to a cellphone. Very weak argument thinking of load shedding in terms of time... it is in terms of load on the electrical grid. 3) How much will electric vehicles be worth when the battery becomes worn out? South Africans keep their vehicles for long periods, 10 years +. Batteries don't last that long. 4) The best argument for the electric vehicle is a second short range city car. But I would suggest it may not be practical to have a car for every type of use...
I agree Cobus! And, in South Africa's case, the electricity you use to charge your vehicle will come from burning coal. So much for "saving the environment."
1) very few people drive more than 100km a day, so those that are traveling between Cape Town and JHB are the exception. Luckily with DC rapid charging and longer range EVs these days, will be able to recharge 3 times for around half an hour per charge cycle (this will continue to improve, see the Hyundai Ioniq 5) 2) Watch the video, most ppl will plug their car in to charge over night when demand is low and Eskom has plenty spare capacity 3) With liquid cooled battery packs, EV batteries are now lasting up to 16 years without much degradation 4) Luckily EV technology is now at the point where it can fulfill most people's needs just as well if not better than an ICE car. I say better because they're more reliable and cheaper to run. Just need to get that up front cost down by bringing the import duties in line with ICE vehicles, and bringing in the more affordable models, especially those from China
Well, South Africa will need to change to electric car manufacturing as soon as possible otherwise they will lose their export market. My question still is, do we really need all that gadgetry that makes electric cars so expensive?
It's not the gadgets. Those are increasingly making their way into ICE cars as well. When I was a kid, you had to buy a Mercedes to get air conditioning. You can hardly buy a car without aircon today. The single most expensive item in an EV is the battery.
@@jeffsteyn7174 I just feel the carbon footprint created by the production of batteries will far outweigh the carbon footprint of internal combustion engines. Ain't no school like the old school. I have to own a V8 before these regulations kick in. Luckily we live in Africa boet!
@@gustavfourie5099 the wheels have been set in motion. We going electric. China banning ice sales in 2035. Cali and Europe doing it in 2030. Once electric cars production is at scale, ice will likely become more expensive and it wouldn't make sense for a vw to split their production lines, ice and ev. 80% of the cars we build goes to Europe. So we going to be forced to go electric
@@jeffsteyn7174 another thing that I'm quite sceptical about is the lifetime of these batteries. Once the battery is finished and klaar will it mean that the car will have to be written off? I see no sustainability in this EV mania
@@gustavfourie5099 from what I have seen I think they can be replaced. Especially the big manufacturers cars. They building them in smaller individual packs which they can replace. Tesla is different because they have one massive pack. But I think it can be replaced. I'm gona miss the sound and vibrations of a v8 or porsche flat six. But that acceleration of an ev is insane and from what I have seen even with our expensive electricity it will be cheaper to operate. Also no services or at least much longer intervals between services. Im in two minds.
It is not true that the majority fly long distances in South Africa, especially in holiday season when the cost of driving is far cheaper that flying the family. My 2 problems with EVs are: 1)Speed of charging (you can imagine what that can look like in holiday season when you stop by charging a point if speed does not significantly improve). 2) Cost of the EV car for the range - the idea that the range must reduce will kill EVs in Africa. We don't like visiting petrol stations anyway. If the EVs can be more affordable and have faster charging with long batteries, I think you will win in Africa. Don't compare Europe and Africa, these markets are vastly different
Fantastic episode, guys. 👌🏿 Well done. Very informative. Well informed guest. But we know he's human too. Probably moves in an echo chamber, like all of us, I guess. What with the completely arrogant dismissal of people's genuine concerns about EVs in an Eskom load-shedding state. We have been consistently and unambiguously informed that the electricity situation is NOT going to get better for at least another 18 months, some say even more realistically, 5 years. On what solid ground did the guest's very-matter-of-facty "childish" logic dismissal stand??? We all know that EVs are coming and they will bring with them a lot of changes that will touch all spheres of our lives. It's therefore important that those in the know inform us without patronising us.
I hear many people say that battery cars are not environmentally friendly (lithium) and that they are not easily recyclable? Apparently the S Class Merc is the most recyclable vehicle in the world? Can you comment please.
In years gone by there were "races" between Pta and Cape Town and back where the (return) trip was timed and it was popularised and rated by the make of car the trip was done in. And so the trip time tumbled as the famous sub -13 hours was chased and reached first with brand xxx (don't know which one was first) and then more and more other brands. Sounds to me, that the SA public is looking for a similar South African rating for EV's? :)
I’d have hoped u guys talk about synthetic fuels as well since it’s used in F1 and F1 wants to come to SA soon. What’s the implication of that resistance and the technological advances coupled with environmental benefits of using synthetic. Some quarters of the motoring world isn’t wholly sold on the EVs. But that would make for a good debate. Thanks
As South Africa, we are in trouble. I guess it’s all up to the manufacturers to bring about change in manufacturing. We are more than capable of manufacturing EVs
Eskom loadshedding is not a problem at all. Electricity goes out 2hrs at a time. You can still charge up your car on the other non loadshedding time. schedule is available
That CBAM mechanism is going to require some pretty comprehensive assessment. Ultimately, it has to spit out a single figure, the carbon footprint of your business.
I think the more pressing issues with electric cars are the lifespan of the battery, the process of disposing a spent battery, and also the rare earth metals needed to make these batteries. The fact that these concerns are being brushed aside tells me that there's a push to implement electric technology REGARDLESS of it's impact on the environment...which makes you think...is this really about saving the planet?
If even traffic lights don't get the electricity they need, what makes you think charging stations will have the power you need to charge an EV if you're in a rush.
In SA charging infrastructure need a huge improvement then the price need to be as comparable as that of ICE vehicles then we can adopt at large. With issue regarding range, its not actually how far you can get with single charge but how quickly you can refuel(0 to 80 percent within 10min will be much appreciate) plus we won't notice the travel distance when refueling is quick
"In-depth" but you guys did not include a lot of issues people may have and did not go into detail and dismissed a few concerns so it kind of shows where you're standing with the whole issue and didn't go into depth with the topic.
Working in the automotive industry, not only in SA, but throughout Africa and the world, I disagree about the "future fashion of golfcarts with doors, airbags and aircon" (EV's...) - taken into account: 1. Nevermind loadshedding - we in the east of Pretoria (a very nice to posh area) often sit with cable theft and exploding substations, leaving us without electricity for days! (Many parts of SA suffer from this problem, and while we have an incompetent government, it NOT going to change) 2. How on earth are they going to provide the remote and small dorpies / towns / villages with enough, and cost viable chargers? While the inhabitants plainly refuses to give up their dependable diesel bakkies and petrol powered mini-bus taxi's... 3. EV's require specialist knowledge with maintenance and repairs. Good luck finding a mechanic in the Transkei or in Zambia that can repair your EV 4X4 - with the knowledge that it can electrocute him / her! 4. Every time an EV is in a severe crash (where the batttery packs are badly damaged - leading to a fire / explotion), its going to set the veld the fields on fire (when dry) - causing potential catastrophic damage to the environment and farms. Not that "green", hey? Nevermind finding the specific equipment required to extinguish the burning car - which can burn for hours! 5. With Africa (and many other continents) that love / have a culture, to drive cars for 20 to 40 years (Japanese cars, such as a durable Hilux or Corolla), good luck persuading those owners to drive an expensive and complex EV with a "beyond economic repair" life-span of only 10 to 15 years. 6. I understand that EV's don't do well over time in dusty conditions... 7. With a "trash dumping culture" in many African countries, can you imagine the ecological damage an EV would bring along if its not recycled in an appropriate, and expensive manner - at the end of the EV's (short) lifespan? (Read: just bury the batteries anywhere...) 8. And what is going to happen if the EU and California stop buying crude oil? The price of petrol and diesel would plummet, making the running costs of a lovely V8 quite affordable - and much more fun than a motorized vacuum cleaner!!! Then I haven't even touched on the carbon-neutral synthetic petrol Porsche and BMW is working on... 9. Regarding the idiotic "carbon footprint tax" the EU want to impose on imported goods - people in Africa would just lie on the rapport, and when audited - show the inspector a donkey-cart! (And keep the fleet of diesel Hilux's hidden elsewhere on the farm) 10. Sorry to all the vegan libtart geeks, wearing sandals with socks, in a clown outfit - diesel and petrol is here to stay for MANY decades to come in certain countries / continents, for a myriad of valid reasons!!! So, to hell with your stupid (and "NOT soooo green") EV wet-dreams!!!
You got the tax wrong. The 7% is only because the EV's are not ICE vehicles made in Europe. Other ICE vehicles made outside Europe (and all EV's) have to pay the 7%. The "Golf cart" luxury tax is actually another 30% on top of the 7% and 15% VAT.
For me in Zim it's not only about how the initial cost is. My issue with EVs is on the maintenance side. Take a look at Tesla and see how for even the simplest issue, they recommend replacing the whole battery at a cost that is close to buying a new one. Talk about planned redundancy and lack of a right to repair attitude.
I'm sorry but you dismissing anyone raising ACTUAL problem such as load shedding as simply childish is a no no. Firstly load shedding is an real problem in this country and it has been brought about by rising demand on old infrastructure which the government is failing to maintain(not to mention failing to invest more on renewable energy). Secondly the afore mentioned problem will be worse because of even more strain placed by electric vehicles amongst other things. You may have consistent power in the area you reside by I know for a fact of many places that get regular power cuts simply because the grid cannot handle.
Won't EVs' help lighten the load? I can get the argument that if they all plugged in to charge at once that would be terrible. However if they charge at off peak times and then make use of the stored energy during peak times, then that would help surely. Granted that is assuming manufacturers give their EVs' vehicle to load/grid capability. I imagine that paired with home charging powered by solar or other renewable means that can be fitted to a home could be useful in the South African context.
@@mulamulelilumadi6557 I honestly don't know how EVs will assist in lightening the load but I do agree with the point that most will be charged off peak and the stored energy used during peak. I do however believe that the charging needed for vehicles is much higher than that needed for phones so once again the grid needs to be stable. Secondly there are many SA'ns that cover large kms on a regular basis so they will need to use the facilities on during peak hours as well. Lastly the installation of solar is generally expensive and majority of South Africans cannot afford
I can just see the employee excuses now..."Sorry Boss, I can`t get to work, we had Loadshedding last night and my car failed to charge" Fix the electricity problems first South Africa, then worry about electric cars...
I don't think it's childish. If everyone drives electric cars eskom whould be under even more pressure this would mean that loadsheding whould be even more frequent. We know that in the past south africa was almost at a total blackout. How much more pressure would be on the grid if everyone drove ev's?
It will work, imagine a person who travels 20 km to works and during the weekend they travel less than 100 km combined and this person has a solar system to charge the car at night. in this scenario this person will not see the gas pump for a very long time, how will an electric car not work for this person?
@@MrZog-yv3be Yes, and you store the power in a battery, from which you can charge the car at night. A solar system without a battery is useless, whether you have an electric car or not.
What's silly is confining load shedding to 2 hours ignoring the effects of increased demand when supply is insufficient. We don't have capacity. Ask those in the know. It's silly for individuals acting as if they are in the know based on a casual chat. RIDIC!!!!! It's upsetting when some portray to know the field with no depth of what they refer to. I love the channel but this interview is not even close to the facts at all.
Electric cars are perfect for minimalists but for me internal combustion engines makes me comfortable. I have options for both long distance and short distance driving.
I hear you guys talking about the power problem and saying it only goes away for two hours in your neighbourhoods. You clearly haven't done the geographical study and analysis to back that statement up and its clearly false. I stay in a black neighbourhood or location rather that has power problems a lot and it can go away for up to a day depending on how efficient Eskom is feeling. Majority of the black LSM can now afford to buy the little more expensive cars but still choose to stay in the hood, but what if you want to own an electric car now because it's better for the environment? Eskom still fails us in some of those areas. Obviously it's different for people that stay in the more affluent places...
I only saw this today if i go to Pretoria and i have to charge the car every 500km and i get to 1 town and have to wait 2 hours to charge the damn battery and it take i do not know how long keeping in mind i will not be the only person to charge my car then finally i can get going and 500km further i have to repeat this whole process it will take me 3 days to get there from Cape Town extra to stay over in a small town without decent hotels or guest houses to force me to buy an electric car is not working for me i hope we will only change in 2050
Silly?? The power is never down for more than 2 hours CURRENTLY, with NEGLIGIBLE EVs on the road requiring charging! Please do the maths as to the MWh used daily by ICEs, and add that entire load to Eskom. Every watt hour currently supplied by petrol/diesel engines will have to be generated by Eskom in the overnight window.
SA Government needs to start thinking seriously about the future of our current Motor Industry. Remember that our industry provides upwards of 6 percent GDP. What does that look like when majority of our market is not suitable for the rest of the world. Will we be the next Cuba? But instead of vintage hot rods we have vintage Zola Buds?
👨🏾Employee: Ahh John, I can't come in ..to work today.. 👴Boss: ..Agh!..Why not Bongani? 👨🏾Employee: ..There was Load-Shedding last night ..so my car didn't charge, hade. That excuse will be a thing and you know it! Lmao Courtesy of Eskom.
What are the possibilities of placing more pressure on the government to scrap the luxury tax on EV imports and adopt an approach more in line with other international markets that subsidize new EV purchases? As mentioned there’s a risk of Eskom failing with more people and business going off grid, so would pushing for more EVs from the government side not make up for the lost revenue from these consumers? Additionally, if these EV users were incentivized to charge during “off-peak” times, it would surely be of great help to stabilize the power consumption demanded from Eskom. It may well be the case that the late adoption of EV tech in means that most of the issues and concerns with range and battery degradation would already have been solved by those who were early adopters. So the only real issues that remains on the table surely is the construction of charging infrastructure, which most likely will come after demand for EVs has increased, yet without it most people may remain hesitant to make the leap. So somewhat of a chicken and egg situation here.
With the fuel levy this government will fight till the bitter end till it is to late. Then there will be an electric levy once the fuel levy is done, but only in areas that pay for electricity. I am all for electric cars and moving on, love what the UK and EU are doing, but with our current infrastructure/government/Eskom debt, we will roll over the line with our ox-cart diesel in 30 years.
C/Z. Clear commentary from a Second World perspective how the First World is trying to dictate the present for our cars ! Like SAF anology-"Stone Age Future" ? V.
@@CiroDeSiena I did now, thank you for the note, but the science remains the same: With EV's you simply shift the so called problem, PLUS you intensify / increase the eco impact... EV's should be banned until the technology was developed to actually have at least a little positive impact on the world / nature.. Fact & really simple calc 😨
@@CobusDerrenberg thanks so much for watching the video and engaging in the debate. Either way, it's a problem we have to solve, and we're trying to make content that covers all sides of the argument. But again, I appreciate your time in engaging with our content.
I'd like an electric car but we seem to be in competition with pedestrians for right of way.. Engine sound and horns eventually get them off the road. With electric cars, shuu...
An overly optimistic chat. The reality is that SA is not yet ready for electric cars. Dismissing critical challenges as "childish/Nonsensical" is being disingenuous.
