Will Mormon Leaders Receive Church Discipline for FRAUD? 

While on my mission in the Philippines, I served as mission finance secretary. Poor money handling by the previous secretaries led to a missing $2,500 USD slush cash fund intended for small office transactions. During an annual audit, I managed to find what I hopefully assume were unrecorded transactions amounting to 2/3 the missing fund. I was required to write a formal statement to the First Presidency explaining I had lost the money. While nothing came of it, I was informed of the potential for excommunication on the bounds of stealing funds from the church. I expect the same transparency in reverse.

This information HAS to be shared far and wide. Church members are so busy taking care of their families and working and doing callings and preparing talks and cleaning chapels that they’ll never even know about it or won’t face the raw reality of what their leaders have done before dismissing it as an honest mistake! I’m so glad I don’t have to make excuses for church leaders anymore since I said adios last year!

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Fraud?! Really? Is breaking an SEC filing rule to obsure finances the same thing a fraud? They paid the taxes owed and reported everything to the SEC. Usually the term fraud is used when you exploit for financial gain. The church did purposely obsure finances though. However in this situation I don't think it's worthy of church discipline. The question is why did they do it? Theres good reasons for doing this and bad reasons. A bad one would be to keep members ignorant so they keep paying tithing. A good one would be to protect members, bishops, and missionaries in 3rd world countries where kidnapping for ransom is a very real problem. I would do the same if I thought it would protect members of my church.

Not disclosing stuff is different than outright fraud.

The Lord is more offended by the use of the term "Mormon church" than the misappropriation of sacred funds. 😋

Great points as always! Shocking to see how much money the LDS church has in stock market! There are many members who struggle financially and making huge sacrifices to pay their tithing and have no saving for themselves.

Hey Nemo, don’t forget about Gary Stevenson, who was the Presiding Bishop from 2012 to 2015 before being called as an apostle.

If it had been any ward bishop he would have been excommunicated on the spot.

They should have to go through church discipline. I’m thinking the Second Anointing let’s them off the hook

I was waiting for your commentary on this first! I knew you would cut to the chase in a most intelligent , wise and concise manner...Thank you NEMO!!!!!! Couldnt have been said better!

Yes they should go through discipline by normal standards. However, they all have received the second anointing. They can do no wrong. And they knew exactly what they were doing. The filing shows that it was by the direction of the leadership of the church that they do this. I just hope this shows people not to pay tithing anymore and do some actual good on the local level instead of sending all of the money to HQ.

Very well said Nemo. I guess the church leaders expect the membership to do what they say, but not what they do.

I don't think "church discipline" sounds right. It is a public transgression, so I think a public confession and public apology are in order.

I'm not a fan of the pharmaceutical stocks the church has. I think big pharma isn't the best at putting health and not wealth as a priority.

Excellent commentary and analysis, Nemo!! Keep up the great work!!

Funny that the first presidency isn't even eligible for a temple recommend.

People are sent to church disciplinary council often for fear they will damage the good name and image of the church. That being said, which one of the following would more likely do that: A) Someone who is guilty of fraud and working for the church and represents the church to the public. OR B) An inactive homosexual who gets married, doesn't have anything to do with the church, and who hasn't attended church in 10 years. But who is tracked down by missionaries, a bishop, etc. based on the Strengthening the Members Committee or some random person they meet who knows they're LDS and gay and contacts their local leaders. We've seen countless examples of B being excommunicated. I doubt we'll ever see any examples of A. Even though this fraud was clearly done by church employees and likely known about by many others.

I'm sure the US tax rate for $32B is more than 5% but let's use 5% as example. 5% of 32B is 1.6B then there should a significant fine over the tax the Mormon machine avoided. So, the machine should have been fined at least $2B. $5M fine is equal to me being fined a dime for a speeding violation.

It won't happen. They were "lying for the Lord".

But seeing as how all of them have probably had their second annointing, does that mean that they are exempt from dicipline?

You are so right. There needs to be an independent investigation!

They must be held accountable for their actions. Their temple recommends should be revoked and excommunicated.

I won't hold my breath for any disciplinary action. Ensign Peak fraudsters in cahoots men in suits playing priesthood and practicing priest crafts. If anything good should come out of this church fraud more members would wake up and resign.

There should be immediate action taken. "Membership councils" should be conducted for all involved in this crime. This is not the same as a "speeding ticket", which many have claimed. Members of the First Presidency, 12 Apostles, and Presiding Bishopric should publicly offer apologies and complete the repentance process. I was publicly shamed as part of repenting for the sin of masturbation when I was a teenager. Couldn't prepare, pass, or bless the sacrament for a number of weeks. Everyone in the ward was aware. Everyone involved in this crime should be publicly shamed and the whole church should be aware.

I love your thoughts Nemo!

"You can buy anything in this world with money"..... including paying off a small cheap fine for a large crime.

The church has no one who has a connection to the creator or “inspiration”. If they did, they would know that lying to the members is not part of God’s plan. They will never be punished because they don’t believe they have anything to be sorry about. They never apologize and never admit any sins. Plus they are all part of the second anointing so their sin doesn’t matter to them. And frankly, they don’t care what the members think about it because the members have no ability to discipline the leaders. People need to all start standing up and voting NO to supporting the prophet and his counselors.

If normal members did this exact thing. They would be excommunicated from the church almost instantly.

Amen and amen.

Wonderfully said

The Church’s official acknowledgment for the fraudulent behaviour (not an apology!) concluded with “the matter is now closed”. Mmmmm. Have I got news for them!

Great work as usual! I second your motion.

LOCK THEM UP! LOCK THEM UP! LOCK THEM UP!

I have already discussed this issue with my father who works in the security branch of the LDS Church and his boss told him that the lawyers doing the transaction messed up. Talk about shifting the blame on someone sheesh.

After this video it will probably be EX-MORMON NEMO !

I am deeply hurt by the misappropriation of my tithing money. I wouldn't have donated if I knew this information. We were lied to and robbed.

Subject them to the discipline council, who's gonna do that? The bishop(s) of their ward(s), the stake president(s) of the place they live in? This is like asking the Schutzstaffel or Gestapo to arrest Hitler, Göring and Goebbels.

You say what would take others 30 minutes in 3 minutes... Unreal. Well put.

In a perfect world, most likely what you will hear from church apologist with talking points, which will be a litany of reasons of why the whole thing was just an unfortunate misunderstanding. In the church’s statement it said that it considered the matter closed, so I would expect the church to remain tight lipped hoping for the matter to be forgotten. If the church gets hit with a full IRS audit then,I think that the poop will really hit the fan.

Another: 12 Jesus went into the temple courtyard and threw out everyone who was buying and selling there. He overturned the moneychangers’ tables and the chairs of those who sold pigeons. 13 He told them, “Scripture says, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you’re turning it into a gathering place for thieves!”Matthew: 21:12-17.

Elder Causse also said in a May 2018 interview that the Church's "current relative prosperity only reflects the faith of its members in keeping the law of tithing...", failing entirely to mention EPA and 20 years of hidden investing. I don't think any of the discipline you've called for will happen, as the matter is considered by the Church to be closed. I remember Joseph Smith said, "if you do not accuse each other God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven." Perhaps your statements will be in effect after this life. Oh, wait, I'm sure they've all had their second annointing and will be safe. It seems like the best recourse we have is to vote opposed due to our lack of trust. It sounds, Nemo, like you are ready for your membership council, which seems highly likely after this video?

I'd add some follow up questions to these very important points. 1: Does the church still employ these supposed attorneys who recommended this action that's now so clearly illegal they've paid the fine? 2: Are those attorneys members of the church? 3: If so, have they been disciplined? If they answer 1 in the affirmative, well... that'd be awfully damning. Oddly, it was actually the church's commercial holdings that was one of the final straws for me. I grew up outside Utah and had NO clue the church had such a massive portfolio. I happened to be in downtown Salt Lake on a Sunday during a trip there and had attended church downtown. Toward the end of the service I had a minor medical issue come up and desperately needed some supplies. The place where I was staying was a full hour and a half away and I couldn't wait that long. The member I was staying with said, "Oh, that's okay, there's a mall across the street!" They then proudly added, "It's even owned by the church!" Without even thinking, just going purely by instinct, I said, "Well, surely it's not open on the Sabbath..." The member, born and raised in Utah, gave me the weirdest look. She said, "Don't be silly, of course it's open. This is an 'Ox in the mire' situation, we've got to get it. Let's go!" All the way there I kept debating with her. Because according to doctrine, we not only have to keep the Sabbath ourselves, but *we aren't supposed to cause anyone else to break the Sabbath either!* Otherwise we're contributing to the fall of someone else. So here's the entire Church, investing OUR faithful tithes in a commercial building, where the Church itself is forcing employees to violate the Sabbath! Her response, "But they're not members!" That doesn't matter, according to their own flippin' doctrine. The whole thing was such an obvious tell to me, I was flabbergasted she couldn't see it. This otherwise smart, logical, clear-headed woman just refused to see the blatant hypocrisy. If I would fail a temple recommend interview by repeatedly violating the Sabbath AND causing others to do the same, then how can the church itself profit off forcing others to do the same at their own properties? Anyway. That's my soapbox rant for the day. :) Shame on them all.

SHARE THE HELL OUT OF NEMO’S SUGGESTION.

Wait, you think this "undermines the integrity" of a church started by a conman who committed bank fraud? Am I missing something? This is par for the course.

Stop going all William Law and Nauvoo Expositor on them?

I had to laugh when they blamed it bad legal counsel. Dallin Oaks has an accounting degree and started his legal career as a corporate litigator. That may have been a long time ago, but he's no idiot. None of them are.

Spot on as usual.

Fully agree. Great job Nemo!

But they’ve had their second anointing so they’re good.

Yes these people should receive church discipline.

(To the first presidency, at their formal council for fraud) How may times did you commit fraud? Did you ENJOY it? Who else participated? Did THEY enjoy it?

Love it. Can I get a transcript to read in F&T meeting next week?

I personally think they should have been fined a whole lot more.

Wow Nemo... short and to the point. I like it!

Nemo Luther King

Maybe we can now get many MANY more opposing votes!

LOL of course not! Hahahaha As great that would be for justice, it's for sure not gonna happen.

If anything, they’ll find some poor schmuck to throw from a great height.

I’m wondering if I can get my money back that I have given to the church. I would also love to be able to sue them for telling gay men in the 80’s to get married. I trusted the recommended my ex got from his bishop just before we got married. Only to have been married under false pretenses. I lost 36 years of my life that I will never get back. All because I trusted that everything was fine.

I think you are poking the bear. Lol. ...Good job! 👍

Bishop Caussé used to be in my ward in Draper. He used to live directly across my house down the block. I even secretly shoveled his driveway once to be of service to him and his family. I’m very disappointed. 😔

Fraud. Lying. How can the self-proclaimed prophets admit to such?!

It seems like it would be obvious, but has the director of Ensign Peak Advisors been fired? Who is going to take the fall for this scandal besides the legal counsel?

Within this Religious Organisation: The $ Buck, surely stops with the Apostle at the Top: Mr Rusty! (I wonder what that next Conference will say or not say, regarding the financial twisting within the various LDS Higher hierarchy and LDS Royalty? to the Mormon underbelly masses?). Please note, I say: "Organisation", rather than "Church."

I love how you criticize the church. Because my life has changed through the Gospel. You are entitled to your thoughts. But for me and many others, this is The Real Gospel. In the name of JESUS CHRIST. AMEN.

Awesome analysis and spot on!! My mission president in Mexico later was excommunicated for something less than this with church fu de! So yes excommunicated them all

Blessings by deception.

Do as I say, not as I do . . . .

Hypocrisy at the highest levels

Sacred fund are manage by professionals thieves 🤪

Excellent presentation as always.

It is hard to pin blame here or there who is responsible ultimately for this and that. If you make a mistake take responsibility. The fine was paid. I don't know if we need to fully condemn leaders for the mistake, or discipline them. We aren't a pitchfork church. Your video is a call for the pitchforks. If we have issues we handle them in house, to save shame and embarrassment on those who make mistakes. A high profile Elder was excommunicated a few years back and not a word was spoken about it to let the person be spared pitchforks and public ridicule for their mistakes.

Great points. Especially regarding the handbook of instruction

Awesome! thanks for being so accurate & detailed.

They are leaders. All they gotta say is “oops” and it’s all good.

It would seem that they are genetically dishonest.

Church discipline is suppose to protect the institution and its leaders, not hold those leaders morally accountable. Silly, Brit! 🤪

I feel inspiration to scoop up hundreds of millions of dollars worth of J&J and Disney stock, etc. using members tithing money, and we'll hide these funds in shell companies to keep the tithing coming

Put them all in prison!

they will not be excommunicated. rather, their salaries willbe increased and 20 foot high white marble likenesses of them will be commissioned and displayed on temple square. 1/10th size replicas of this work will be displayed in every mormon meeting house thuout the world.

Nemo if we object to loudly we are toast. I agree with you I saw on 60 minutes that the Pope went to Canada personally to apologize to Native American children now adults for abuse in a school system our leaders will never do anything like that. They do not apologize and they commit crimes😵‍💫😢

It’s a nice thought brother, but we know nothing will happen. Cased closed in the Mormon leaders mind.

I guess there was a mis-translation, it was supposed to read Profits not Prophets.

Absolutely agree. Too leaders caught out and should go thru a disciplinary process.

Got to hand it to GA's in charge of the tithing fund building up the portfolio to $44B... getting up in the big leagues with that amount!

Agree with you 100% Nemo. I love how much information is in this short video.

The 5 million dollar settlement with the SEC should have been deducted from the collective stipends paid to the 15 and presiding bishopric.

Agree completely!

Spot on!!

“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.” (see History of the Church, 3:385).

No one is exempt of repentance when making bad choices, especially if they want eternal life. But heres the thing, if the people at the top are misusing the funds and don't repent and sort it out, that is between them and God its only their exaltation thats at stake, not mine. Our Father knows exactly what they are doing and through the spirit He can correct them. If they have become spiritually deaf, then He can take them back home or the spirit prison. We as members only need to worry about our own choices, and make sure we repent when needed. As I am responsible for my salvation not someone else's, especially that high in the church. If they don't know what right and wrong is at that level then they will be in serious trouble.

They all have the second anointing, therefore they have done nothing wrong.

Kinda weird that apostle and a siting prophet could be sitting in there bishops court and a high counsel should be able to hear a case on them ? I 🤔 that how it's supposed to go ? There elders , and should have a bishop right and stake president in there ward?

Ain't no rest for the wicked

They managed tithing funds with great care which includes forming shell companies which is the very definition of money laundering.

@nemothemormon I’m just stumbling on your channel. As someone with considerable knowledge and context on these issues, I can tell you your understanding is incomplete and your conclusions unfounded. If you would like to have a good faith off-line discussion, I’d be happy to talk.

I have a friend who served as ward clerk years ago. They couldn’t account for 25 dollars in tithing from the ward, and the stake clerk threatened him with church discipline. It’s so laughable given what’s been going on.

You've got a huge chip on your shoulder dontcha! You've been led down a dark path by worrying about all of this. God loves you and all is right in the gospel. Trouble yourself no more..

Spot on!!!