William Lane Craig: In Quest of the Historical Adam | Closer To Truth Chats 

Two most appreciated and authoritative persons.. Love you both Robert and William!!!

You may not agree with Craig, but he does his homework exceptionally well.

I love how active you are and determined to find answers.

Great discussion. Thanks for making this happen.

Much respect for Robert - still honestly seeking answers! And Dr Craig is brilliant as always.

Great interviews !

Robert I really admire your work. This is one of my favourite channels

Glad Robert interviewed Dr. Craig so many years after their first stellar face-to-face interview.

In my view, the Genesis mention that after the Fall women would bear their children with pain, could be related to the evolution of the female pelvis. To me this "change" in the circumstances of childbirth could refer to the length as well as to the circumstances of the process of becoming the Neanderthal man / Homo sapiens, or some other such form which had this experience.

Great intervew

Great interaction regarding philosophical approach in genesis though i am not agree theologically....

This channel cannibalises complexity and crystallises clarity

This is exactly what The Word of God warned Humans: "Doubt and conformity with the sinful World". Dr. Craig is doing exactly what Satan is looking for: To conform the Bible to Evolution and to scientific theories. That is why Paul says in Romans 12:12 "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God"

Robert Kuhn is the best when it comes to exploring all topics.

Somethings Gotta give

The classic doctrine of original sin is actually the doctrine of St Augustine in the 5th century and it’s logically untenable. Guilt cannot be inherited.

Theological anthropology -- a nonsensical term. I've watched many of Kuhn's videos and he never seems to get closer to any truth.

Are there differences in brain for writing compared to language and speaking?

What distinguishes homo sapiens, neanderthal man and heidelberg man from each other?

Great content, as always. I do wish you could get Peter Hacker on a discussion like this about things like the mind-body problem, free will, consciousness, etc. It would make a huge difference.

What do the symbols in story of Adam and Eve mean, interpreted from mytho-historical view?

Compelling story good stuff! Now when do we see ALL the Webb pictures available or what they choose to show?

I would have liked some mention of whether independently arisen, sapients in distant star systems (that we may discover later?) is relevant or not to this discussion. I mean Craig could just say there is a God-process wherever one arises in the universe. However, if he says this, then we could conceive of a species that did not "fall". Or is the fall somehow a necessity for a sapient species to arise (as in "the fall" being a metaphor for gaining consciousness through language and becoming aware of ones own transience and existence apart from animals, which is always how I've interpreted "the fall", just as a literary speculation). Anyway, what would an unfallen species be like, or is this simply an incoherent notion?

Although I'm not Christian, I really respect and adore William Craig ❤️ 💙

Does writing have something in addition to language, that writing start much more recently than language? Maybe writing of bible, including mytho-history at beginning of Genesis, is related to development of writing in recent human history? Is there something spiritual about writing?

It's interesting "the world's leading theologian" speculating on "what Jesus of Nazareth believed". Wasn't He supposed to be God made flesh? Shouldn't He have "known" about the Creation?

Who wrote first part of Genesis as mytho-history and why?

What is meant by image bearer?

Adam would be the beginning of a race of humanity who had the wherewithal to think about God and enough capacity of intuition to carry on a two way conversation with God . So some threshold of conscious adequacy must be the point at which the early humans were wise to God and had the mind to carry on an intelligent conversation with God. The idea of a computer or machine being conscious would define that threshold, beneath that horizon it is just a machine , but above some plane of efficiency , the existence of a soul is well concluded.

What is mytho-history genre? What else is part of mytho-history genre?

Every human being on earth was a divine human creator from the divine human race. We called our home Paradise, now known as earth. Since the fall of man (humanity) we are devolving humans living on purgatory.

Does language have anything to do with having image of God?

In the case that the story of Adam and Eve in garden of Eden relates a spiritual fall or death; might the image of God have been a spiritual rise from God's creation of Adam and Eve? How could God's creation of Adam and Eve have brought about a spiritual rise from which Adam and Eve fell?

What a great discussion. I like Craig's understanding of, and discourse concerning, the first 11 chapters of Genesis. I would expand that mytho-historical account in the mythos genre by suggesting that Adam and Eve either represent all persons, in the sense of not being literal people, or which I prefer, as a hypothetical perspective shared by Origen and borrowed from Plato's view on the eternality of the individual, that the story of the fall refers to the incarnation of Mankind from a divine, eternal perspective. In other words, humans are divine beings that have fallen into a lower aspect of reality, the floor if you will (much like Isaiah 66:1 "Heaven is my throne and Earth the footstool of my feet"), and Christ came to lift us back up to where we belong. I would further suggest that the first actual individual historically mentioned would be probably Abraham. Though I haven't done enough research in this area, this is only my hunch.

What is a “gendre” What is a “gehnus” Latin anyone?

Could there have been natural developments or changes in humanity that are different than the spiritual development of humanity described by writing in Bible?

Nooooooooooooooooo…… Not Bill Craig

to my 'weird thinking' it's matter of timeframe the 'belief' in current time is just like what ever happened.. we are not sure in different timeframe what kind was the belief available, for example in pyramids era, in gobekli tepe era, in machu pichu era, in aztec era or even in pithecanthropus era.. would be good just keep the understanding for 'believe algorithms' what ever available in our current timeframe no need going back too far whether it the same or not the 'meta conscious' of cosmic always changing.. 😊

I need y’alls contact. I am deeply connected to an adjacent school of thought.

Is the image of God for humanity a natural or spiritual development? Does the image of God for a human being mean a capacity to relate to God? If so, what did humanity develop to bring about capacity to relate to God?

Were cave drawings and other art pieces an advance on language, a step between language and writing?

Mr. Kuhn, "if there were a God" is a subjunctive phrase suggesting that there's no God. But you still reflect on whether God exists.

Why was mytho-history genre put at beginning of Genesis, followed by more historical passages?

I thought I appreciated Craig & his theories.. I'm not so sure now.. and after peeking around RU-vid a bit and hearing some of his "less heard" remarks.. I think I'm gonna jump ship.

Physical laws like conservation of energy and momentum determine that all the particles that make you today have existed for millions of year. Nothing new to this universe was required to make you. The same laws also determine that in million of years all the particles that make you today will be thoroughly mixed with the rest of the soup of particles. We are temporary condensations of particles with discernible boundaries and memories which gives us the ability to recognize "self" as different from "others." If we have 100 units of effort in this life, the personal choice is how much to devote to the aggrandizement of the self and how much to the communion with others? Many religious books dwell on this conundrum. With one God, many of them, or none, it remains the case that in this universe and for most of its 14 billion years existence, you and I have been and will be mixed with everything. I have the laws on my side.

This was a great theological conversation. Mytho-history is a very interesting genre of literature.

Very interesting point of view. I may have to read his book. I've come to a similar conclusion about how to read the first part of Genesis, but the historicity of Adam and Eve is something that I have never felt confident in one way or another. I'm still not convinced based on this interview alone, but identifying Adam and Eve as non homo sapiens is an interesting idea. In some ways I don't think it matters so much, though. I think they could be an archetype for all "humans" or "image bearers" without necessarily being actual human individuals themselves.

What did heidelberg humans have or develop that made into image bearers Adam and Eve?

What did Jesus and Paul say about historicity of Adam and Eve in New Testament? Are there any other statements about historicity of Adam and Eve, maybe with different names?

Further from truth.

Six Days of Creation was really the time taken by Moses standing on a Rock , to explain God to the Israelites, making time a parable of their Exodus, so that they trekked through the wilderness six days at a time and rested on every seventh day. So, like a Dewey Decimal System, Moses as the Teacher, moved by the Spirit, was up on a rock hovering over the men, and brooding over the people, standing in God's Place, and so Moses was God. In Exodus 7:1 God as Spirit communing with Moses , says to Moses "See now Moses, I have made you to be YHVH GOD to Pharaoh , and Aaron is your Prophet". So to apply that method of the Teacher standing in God's Place , using speech out of one mouth that Moses had, to speak as the Father and speak as the Son and Speak as Spirit is THEATRICAL, the Divine Playwright such as Alfred Hitchcock would use to show his Divine Place, as the Author doing CAMEOS to walk out onto the Stage during a play to prove to the people in the audience his divine nature as the God of this Performance. Then you see, Moses took SIX DAYS to teach Israel the Creation Story, every evening for six days, he got up on a rock and delivered a sermon teaching about his lesson plan , over six days, using a code like the Dewey Decimal System tells you by the number where to find a book or a subject , on the shelves of the Library. So every FIRST DAY Moses would stand in God's Place on a rock and teach about the BEGINNING , "Let there be Light". So , every SUNDAY the first day of teaching by a method of lesson plans, Mose would teach about LIGHT. On every Second Day, Moses would teach about WATER. On every third day , Moses would focus the subject content of his sermon on the DRY LAND. Every Fourth Day , Moses would teach about Astronomy, then on the Fifth Day of regulation , Moses turned to teaching about the emergence of LIFE. Then on the SIXTH DAY , Moses would teach Israel about their HUMAN HISTORY, and then on the Seventh Day , Moses would give the blessing and there would be no further instruction except to REST. SABBATH DAY. Then in taking license as the Law Giver, Moses would remind the people how God CREATED THE WORLD IN SIX DAYS and so Moses told the people to do diligence and complete their weeks of years doing works for each of the six days, and completing them , giving praise and blessings for the accomplishment and every Seventh Day they rested. That is how Moses regulated the Israelites during the Time of the Exodus, for all history before that Exodus, there was no story told by any earlier Patriarchs about creating the world in SIX DAYS. So in Job , there is a narrative given by God about Creation that does not invoke any regulation of six days and a day of rest to explain how God created the world. So it was the invention of Moses, where "Necessity is the Mother of Invention". Moses taught Israel, using a numerology of days, for a similar reason that the Dewey Decimal System regulated how to move through the Library to study everything.

Why are the rivers Tigris and Euphrates identified for garden of Eden where Adam and Eve lived?

Species are a group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. I have Neanderthal genes in my genome. Thus we could interbreed with Neanderthals. They part of the human species. We do not need a philosophical treatise to help us establish that. KISS!

What a story, try the interpretation of Thor, Zeus and Poseidon

All Neanderthals and Denisovans were humans. Neanderthals are Eurasians and Denisovans are not Semitic, they are a mix of Eurasians and Hamites. You can see this in the heat mapping of Neanderthals and Denisovans as much as they are related to us modern day humans. Both are less related to the Semitic populations.

Interesting. But basically just substituting one narrative for another. Or at best adding one meta narrative on top of another. But kudos to anyone today who has some type of desire to write a systematic theology.

Lane Craig realizing late in life that his beliefs are batshit crazy so he makes up something else (also without evidence)

One of the best discussion that Robert initiated with the most thoughtful and honest Christian philosopher of our days. It is wise and sensible for Christians ( I’m one of them) to consider that Adam and Eve are symbolic as referred to by Paul in Romans 5. Jesus never referred to Adam and Eve, because in chapter one of Genesis God created males and females ( in the pleural ) not one male and one female Which is consistent with human genetics.

Does spiritual death of Adam and Eve lead to some kind of physical separation of life in this world from God?

Non human parentage of Adam and Eve might have been spiritual, as well as having created a new natural life or physically altered an existing life?

What is the reason for human cognitive development?

Therefore, magic.

24:15 it amazes me that WLC can so easily contradict himself in the space of one sentence. After insisting that brain size is a necessary condition in order to be classed as a human - he then completely about faces and says, sure, brain size is not in fact a necessity. Brain size was the (presumably) most important characteristic Craig looked at in order to determine the first human being - and he just admitted that the criterion was void. I have no doubt that if Kuhn hadn't pointed out a deeply personal and emotive example, Craig wouldn't have made the concession. Craig is eager not to be seen as a moral monster - he avoided the issue of race by nesting the 'birth' of humanity long ago (but not too long ago) in Africa. One has to wonder, therefore about his views on homosexuality and why he won't make similar concessions to his worldview as he did with race and mental conditions. Again, this is another instance of Craig walking the tightrope in order to salve his intellectual reputation. Sure, he'll tweak a few things to avoid certain charges of holding incoherent and morally bankrupt ideas - but while he still has the safety net of a broad conservative following, he doesn't feel the need to adopt a genuinely progressive rational approach to morality.

Is homo erectus considered to be human before heidelberg humans?

I hate the way he says, "genre." I wish he would stop that.

Philosophy which is expressed only by language - can only be understood by those who master that specific language. So, the Hebrew bible talks about the preparation of an intelligent environment - in the realm of thought, that will suit any humanoid who wishes to understand this specific language - Hebrew. The only virtue of the Hebrew bible is the introduction of the Hebrew language to Humanity - do you think that the garden of Eden was a physical space for the beginning of humanity at large? An absurd. Adam was the first person-metaphor to understand Hebrew, he also gave names himself, the proper words… that was his ONLY tusk - to learn Hebrew - this is the only exercise god gave him- a linguistic one Hebrew … No philosopher can borrow Hebrew ideas since his language doesn’t allow it not verbally nor conceptually… it’s a diversion … 6 days is only a mathematical hint to the decimal system, (no 6 sheshet = 1000 in gimatiria). (days Yamim= 100 in gimatria) 10 is the mathematics of Hebrew and Hebrew geometry. The divine names are scientifically true and are seen in decimal geometry. So the story is not the beginning of Human beings - as scientists know. it’s the beginning of Hebrew speaking Adam. of Hebrew thought Not religions even - but this is what people do all over the world when they get lost in translation or even fail to understand their own language. Especially they have no clue of Hebrew which is coded 4 times … Jesus never spoke Hebrew, so the information you get is a 10th hand version, not even from Jesus himself, but gossip after gossip, Aramaic to Greek to Latin to French to English etc. a simple math will show you the probability that the end massage has any connection to the Hebrew source, YET good enough for billions

Great to have Closer to Truth!

Human image bearers in direct relationship with God without other human beings or anything else as leaders or rulers?

It was only last night I watched William Lane Graig in conversation with Roger Penrose from 2019. It was very good!

Were Adam and Eve the progenitors of natural humanity, or could Adam and Eve be progenitors of a spiritual humanity?

When Christians rename half of their holy stories to “mytho-history”, I call that progress. Hopefully someday these folk figure that it’s actually all a myth. :-)

Could it not be that Adam and Eve were not ancestral to the Neanderthals and Denisovans but far more recent as per mytho-history, or history and other biblical accounts? Would that leave the older humans out in the cold in terms of the original sin (as per Andrew Loke)? I don' think we know or can foresee how God handles these people (however we may define them), just as we do not know how he handles people of other current religions and cultures who may never have heard of the Bible in any tangible sense. I would not assume that they are all considered as fallen and end up condemned. If that were the case I could no longer be a practicing Christian.

If you look around the world, every single ethnic group seems to have its own genealogical adam equivalent emphasizing that they are the chosen people of god or whoever they revere and fear. The Genesis story tells us nothing more than that.

The story of adam and eve is a very primitive story most likely spread by word of mouth that ended up in the jewish torah and adopted by the roman empire when they added new manuscriptst to the Torah to have their official roman bible.

Only the Sun was the inventor of electromagnetic waves. The eyes of higher animals are a gift of the Sun god. We can put the Adam label on the Sun.

It's Funny How Science and Religion Use Both Differences and Commonality as Proofs or Unknowns in Choice Form. Further, I haven't Read this Book. However to Me, Attempting to Explain In Detail Religous Documents/Practice of 2000 Years ago or More is Neither here nor there. To Me to Draw Inspiration, Commonality, Knowledge and Faith from the Documents and Practice of Religion Long Ago is the Most Important Influence from that Past. Clearly the Past including the Bible Writers are Recording and Attempting to Explain the God Dilemma. They are Pushing the Boundaries of the God Conclusion. As an Example, I Suspect the Human God Conclusion Long Predates the Eve and Adam Theory. Interestingly The Bible Writers are Progressives in that they are Recording for the First Time. Back then Someone Created the Ability to Write with Agreed Definitions. Human Brilliance Drawn from the God Influence. Further Again, Attempting to Explain Ancient Religous Writings has the Same Problem as Explaining Darwin's Evolution Theory. The Same Problems of Very Very Little Evidence Remains, even from Only 5000 Years ago. Therefore to Me, was there Just One Adam and Eve or Many ?. I Don't believe the Bibles Excludes more than One Pair of Adam and Eve but More Importantly Connect AE's Creation to God. Therefore Homosapiens, Neanderthals etc can Fit with the Adam and Eve Conclusions of the God Bibles. Good Topic.

all of the other heidelberg humans would have been fallen from a first pair of Adam and Eve; or the whole of heidelberg humans fell into spiritual death?

Is there a relationship of soul to writing, and the reading of writing?

Craig requires a certain definition of Man, for his Anthropology. Then he looks to Paleontology. This is a prolegomenon to his forthcoming Philosophical Theology, likely.

After Craig’s “two years” of so-called research, there is NO WAY, that anything would have satisfied his conclusions that a historic Adam & Eve didn’t exist. Craig is not very honest, but he’s very bright…certainly bright enough to know, that once you concede one fact about the Old Testament, it won’t be long before you intelligently and honestly have to make a myriad of reversals and concessions about the mythical New Testament.

All religions Evolve biblies once they reach critical mass of membership, these bibles are not the word of god but based on the local morality

Yes, in the beginning, the foundational character of man is revealed to be flawed and lacking in spirit. We see the history of this condition and the inspiration of God tapping on man's shoulder.

Kudos

WLG: It would be morally reprehensible that there could be human or human like creatures that wouldn't fall under God's grace... The same God who would condemn people who don't believe in the Christian mythos to eternal damnation? No...of course not.

Craigs voice is what I wants Gods to sound like welcoming everyone to heaven

My head hurts.😂❤

“The Bible Came from Arabia “, Kamal Salibi,1985. Gen. 1:2 has Thm as Tihamah- Hijaz, Asir and Yemen- in western Arabia, not the ‘deep.’ The ‘Jordan ‘ nowhere called a river in the OT. Junaynah at Dn- garden of Eden- at 20/20 by 42/55 in Asir region western Arabia with the 4 rivers and gold etc. Still Adam and Eve mythical and the trees. The bible contains myth, legend, history and science. The OT has yet to be translated. The little- but significant- parts Kamal Salibi has translated is interesting and important. Science says the sun’s shadow reversing itself occurs in the Tropical Zone- western Arabia- not Palestine,Pennsylvania or Pleiades as related in King Ahaz ‘s time and geographic area.

If the Judao-Christian God could rewrite parts of the Bible, which obviously He could, would He not remove "made in My image", "kill (nearly) all sinners", "the flood", "Lot's daughters", "You are My people", and so on and so on? So why hasn't He?

What the hell is mythoshistory? William should stop scamming people.

Perhaps the origins of man lie buried deep in the "mytho-history" of the Mesopotamian/Sumerian cuneiform texts, the Babylonian Enuma Elish and the epic of Gilgamesh, the Annunaki, Enki n Enlil etc etc... Q: Why should the Judeo-Christian biblical narrative be considered factual, historical and accurate, while earlier Mesopotamian texts be considered myth ??.. who decides what is myth n what is history ?? what is the criteria ??.. I mean the Adam n Eve story in Genesis of them eating a piece of forbidden fruit offered by a talking serpent and then all of humanity be tarnished and dammed with guilt, sin and shame is just preposterous and the limit case for credulity. Imagine taking this case to court and telling the judge..." Your honour this talking snake 🐍made me do it"...😆 🤣 😂 c'mon Also, examine the Abram/Abraham story...he was from Ur of the Chaldees, then Mesopotamia, now, a region of modern day Iraq, wouldn't that make him an Iraqi ...🤔 hmmmm. A pagan Iraqi convert to Judaism, who is the "Father of Judaism, Christianity & Islam...And this dude Abram was promised Canaanite/Palestinian/Syrian land by this YHWH/Elohim/Annunaki/ancient advanced alien god to start a new generation...etc etc... This sounds to me like one of the first usurpation and land grabbing events in history, if it's true ??... No wonder the modern day Palestinians have beef with the Jews/Israelis, so called God's chosen people. It's also blatantly evident, that this YHWH god is biased, shows Abram favour, is partial to Abram (rather unGodlike) and also gets Abram's barren wife Sarai pregnant...And that is after Abram gets Hagar, Sara's servant woman pregnant...🙄 WTFudge ??..🤣😂🤪 Now Is this myth, fact, history or allegory ??.. Remember the apostle Paul's words to the Galations in 4:24 when referring to the Abraham narrative of the OT..."WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY".. 2 Cor 3:6.."Who hath made us able ministers of the New Testament, NOT of the LETTER, but of the SPIRIT: for the letter killer, but the SPIRIT giveth LIFE". A clear indication that the Bible is not a history book, nor is it meant to be taken literally, rather, it is to be understood through a Spiritual lens with a Christ Mind and Christ consciousness. 👊 ✌ Even the whole tower of Babel n the Nimrod story in the OT is an allegory, if only more people knew what that story is meant to convey spirituality we'd be better off collectively as a species. Sadly, the vast majority don't get it and will never get it. Most walk that broad road that leads to destruction. Awake to the inner divinity.✌🏼☝🏼❤

So they were part of the evolutionary process, but one day only two people were born of some parents in the same place and they were the first with human traits? Of if scientific timelines are being somewhat applied did God step in millions of years after initial creation and start the human branch separate from the evolution process? Sounds like another attempt to align the bible with science, just don't think about it too hard. My first thought was talking about this event happening 700K years ago would be the first thing to ruffle feathers with many Christians. Many subscribe to around 6K years for the Adam and Eve family tree.

If you assume *God exists* then you have no option but to consider the bible to be what God claims *the word of God* and therefore not merely _"in some sense valid"_ but that it *tells the truth!* To assume God and then deny that he can speak and say exactly what he means is a contradiction of the highest order. _"Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise? He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see? He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge, the Lord, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath."_ Ps 94:8-11 SIR FRED HOYLE Falsified Evolution: 1- Fred Hoyle FRS (24 June 1915 - 20 August 2001) was an English astronomer who formulated the theory of stellar nucleosynthesis and also an atheist 2- In 1987 he wrote ‘Mathematics of Evolution’ concluding the Darwinian theory is false (accepted micro-evolution) 3- What Hoyle showed was that novel genes for new proteins could not possibly have evolved by the Darwinian process of natural selection; 4- _“Well as common sense would suggest, the Darwinian theory is correct in the small but not in the large. Rabbits come from slightly different rabbits...”_ 5- Even assuming 95% of the genome is junk and the code is 30% redundant could not save evolution 6- Concerning new genes _“Where they came from in the first place is a problem yet to be solved, like much else of a cosmic scale.”_ 7- In 2018 TB. Fowler reviewed Hoyle's Critique of Neo-Darwinian Theory and said _“The conclusion is that while Hoyle's mathematics is impeccable, and thus his critique based on them has merit, he did not carry his own reasoning far enough and specifically failed to consider the possibility of large variations in selective value.”_ 8- Hoyle did not consider large variations because he knew the obvious negative effect on probability of beneficial change only magnifies the problem; Hoyle 9- _“we have a case in histone-4 where more than 200 base pairs are conserved across the whole of biology? The problem for the neo-Darwinian theory is to explain how the one particular arrangement came to be discovered in the first place. Evidently not by a random process"_ The probability = 1e-120 ? 10- Hoyle was so convinced he invented a panspermia model pushing the problem of new genes out into the cosmos admitting it’s still a problem 11- Since Hoyle’s work was verified and its only alternative worse for evolution of new genes his assertion that the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution is wrong is a *falsification!*

Is this guy for real

Scientific Adam and Mitochondria Eve likely lived thousands of years apart. The Biblical story is clearly a mythical telling, in the sense Joseph Campbell meant.

Never seen you do such a long disclaimer at the start of your other videos? That’s an tacit bias

Theology creates its own paradoxes.

They died spiritually when they disobeyed God’s word. People are not meant to live forever on earth in physical bodies. I think this is hard for Christians to grasp because they do not understand the substantial nature of our eternal spiritual home, wherein our desires, and creativity are not hampered by time, and space. There, after graduating from earth, our desires are fulfilled substantially in the speed of thought. Did the angel substantially dislocate Jacob’s thigh or figuratively? Did the scroll that Jesus’ angel told John to eat taste like honey? Did John notice incense? How did John know it was incense? The Discerning of Spirits is the opening of the dormant spiritual counterpart to the 5 physical senses. The spirit world which is our eternal home, is not merely a realm of thought, anymore than God is just a mind, instead of a Spirit. Sex was what Adam and Eve temporarily needed to refrain from. Were they afraid of wanting a Mercedes Benz? A law degree? Political power? None of those things were available. Though they were created as lords of creation in God’s stead. The only thing they would have dared to disobey God for wax inordinate, premature, and excessive sexual desire, that was initiated by the angel. What were Adam and Eve ashamed of? Their nakedness. Read Jude 1:6-7 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. Man has a physical body which is the soil of development of our spirit. The spirit is a body, which is a mirror image of us, and mind, desire, and ability. Desire being the core of emotion, and ability meaning the function of Will. The core of the spirit mind and body, is the heart. The center of our being where God lives inside of us, is the area of the heart. Adam and Eve I believe were created 800 thousand years ago. After their mortification, sin compounded to the point where their descendants were living like beasts. Which grieved God to his heart. There was no tradition indicative of a royal lineage, and no resemblance to God in terms of heart. Regarding female angels: “I raised my eyes and saw two women coming with the wind in their wings; for they had wings like those of a stork. They lifted the eifah up between the earth and the sky. 10 I asked the angel speaking with me, “Where are they taking the eifah?” 11 He answered me, “To build it a shrine in the land of Shin‘ar. When it’s ready, [the eifah] will be set down there on its base.” - Zechariah 5:9

I love the Bible. You do know that Moses was raised by the Pharaoh's daughter, right? His education and history was Egyptian.js Moses adopted monotheism, but his life wasn't perfect. I think religion is an intellectual exercise,a riddle of the ages.

I have never taken issue with any of your guests until now. WLC has, on innumerable occasions, been a (no pun) faithless interlocutor. There are many honest, sincere, insightful theists, you have featured many of them. This man is not worthy of your platforming.

Closer to truth is a channel where our reality is discussed in an intellectual way. In order to do such, intellectual honesty is needed. This is not a quality of WLC who depends on intellectual dishonesty to bring his ideas about. What is he doing here. It's clear that the views drop dramatically in his presence.