With all this suffering, how could there be a God? | Tim Keller at Columbia University 

I’d like to point out how comfortable Tim Keller is with saying, “I don’t know.” I see many other intellectuals out there either trying to gain an answer for everything, give the appearance that they do have an answer for everything, or have a problem with things they don’t have answers for. Tim Keller is at peace with not knowing everything.

"I don't believe it's any easier to handle or face suffering by disbelieving in God" I can say I have found this to be true in my life

I was an atheist myself...Dawkins..Dennet..Harris ...Pinker.....and my personal favorite being Hitchens. I liked him immensely and even as a Christian I still watch his videos. I really dug the documentary he did with Douglas Wilson called Collision. Even HE admitted at the very end that the fact that the universe was made on a razors edge was the strongest evidence for a creator he'd seen. Having said that I agree with him, and I think I can come to God from a logical outworking of some basic arguments like the cosmological constant ...anthropic principle.....and that everything which begins to come into existence has a creator...and we know the universe began...which points to a higher power outside of space and time...JUST like Genesis says. Then you can use the biblical prophecies of Isaiah 53 which was written down 700 years beforehand to get to Jesus being who He claimed to be....just as some basic ideas. But more than that, I've had radical experiences with the demonic realm that changed me forever which made me a believer. And you'd be a believer too if you were ever in the presence of one yourself. Sometimes the devil will scream when God is quiet. I cannot prove it...and I admit this.....but I CAN say that I'm not special, so if you REALLY wanted that kind of force to witness itself to you...all you have to do is go looking for it purposely and you'll get what you're looking for. Then when you're a believer too and people ask you for evidence, you'll do exactly what I'm doing here...which is kinda throw your hands up and admit that not everything can be replicated in a petri dish. What's the smell of 3 o clock? That's how it is when people ask for proof of some things. It is what it is..and you can experience it, but you can't jar it. Anyway....that stuff is real, I pray you never have to find out just how real. Just stick with Jesus and God the father...you can't go wrong. Love God and your neighbor as yourself. That's true just on it's face.

'beyond the door, there's peace I'm sure And I know, there'll be no more Tears in heaven' - Eric Clapton

Man wants freedom from God. God is something that's disposable, something one can throw in the dirt in and that's exactly what man does. Finished! No more God! Then when things go wrong, something outrageous happens...man asks "Where was God?" or "where is God?" You threw God in the dirtbin! Remember! You had no need of him. He was made redundant!

Just AMAZED how Rev. Keller answers all those questions..

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” King James Version (KJV)

You cant put limits on God.. his ways and thoughts so much bigger than we can even imagine

Unbelievers only want to talk about God when they want to blame Him for something or claim He does not exist. God has suffered MUCH More than Any human.

The world should listen too this wonderful mind I could listen too him more than I do because life weighs us down but when I need my spiritual teacher he is the one I love who lifts my faith and makes intelligent sense Hope he and his family are keeping well as he said his cancer came back during lockdown Thanks Tim for your time and blogs

I think the best people to ask this question of are people who suffer chronically painful conditions and yet have increasing faith, increasing love for God and increasing love for others.

I think God allows suffering for a very good reason. Let me offer a few analogies. Without quiet there is no loud. Without poor there is no rich. Without sadness there is no joy. How can we appreciate or begin to understand what God has given us, the promise of eternal life, without knowing death or fear or pain or sadness. I believe that it simply gives us context for the amazing gift we have been given.

I think the Bible does say why He hasn't stopped evil yet: 2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. In order for God to stop all of this suffering He has to bring an end to the age of sin that we live in, and that means destroying sin, and with it sinners. But there are still those who will repent and accept Him. But a time is coming when there will be no more who will accept Him. It is not God's Will than anyone should be destroyed, but He has given us out own will. As long as there are some who will submit to His Will that we be saved, so be it. As soon as we will not, and we will destruction for ourselves, so be it as well.

Mr. Keller's statement of silence being the best Christian response to grief was spot on. But his excuses for God permitting the Holocaust were completely unconvincing.

In case we are in this situation we better offer our suffering to God to ask for compassion.We will have a constant presence of the Lord in our mind.

I don't think there was enough time for Dr Keller to answer this question as thoroughly as he could have or the video just got cut off. But here's a more in-depth view of the problem of suffering... There are a few things to answer when forming the bigger response to question of "why does God allow suffering". The first thing to point out is that the very fact that suffering exists serves as huge evidence for God's existence and revelation. Because without an ultimate standard of morality (being God's nature), we have absolutely no moral foundation to call anything right or wrong. Or good or evil. According to the secular thinker (atheism) there is no god to serve as a 'law giver' if you will. While Christians appeal to the bible as their moral authority, atheism has nothing to appeal to. We can use the Holocaust as an example. Most people agree that the murder that took place during the Holocaust is absolutely wrong. Christians can say that it was wrong because each human is made in the likeness of God meaning that human life has value, meaning, and purpose and that we all have rights (Genesis 1:26). If atheism were true than everything that exists today is just a complete accident- a product of a series meaningless events. Humans are nothing but rearranged biochemicals that evolved into existence along with everything else. There would be no reason to think that we have anymore value than, say, a mouse or a tree. Or suppose that there was no creative mind to design our brain for the purpose of thinking. There would be no reason to think that "thought" exists. It's merely the chemical reactions in our brain that give us the sensation we call thought. We couldn't be held accountable for our actions because our brains are just obeying the laws of chemistry that produce an action- therefore, law and justice would be completely pointless. If atheism were true then human life has no more meaning, purpose, or value than an animal, a plant, or any inanimate object for that matter. A lot of atheists appeal to evolution as our basis for morality. But if that were the case that still wouldn't make anything objectively right or wrong. Just because a certain "moral" action gave us a certain survival value in the past would not make it absolutely "right". What makes the preservation of the human race ultimately the right thing to do according to atheism? One can rightfully say if atheism were true than Hitler would be right and perfectly justified in killing off the "weaker, less evolved" portion of humanity to 'further' the human race. But as we all feel, that isnt the case. His actions were evil. All this is NOT to say that atheists live immoral lives or dont believe in morality. When atheists appeal to any sort of morality, they are "stealing" the Christian worldview. Because even though atheists deny God, they still have to live in His universe.(John 1:1) The next part (and maybe biggest part) of the answer is good old freedom of action and thought; that God allows all of us to have free will. Clearly we live in a sinful fallen world from our choice to defy God. The reason God made us is to have eternal relationship with us which displays His glory (Colossians 1:16). Because forced love is pretty much rape God has to give us the free will to choose if we want love and follow Him or deny Him & go our own way. Therefore we have the ability to choose good or evil. That is why Adam and Eve had that choice and that is why we have the same choice today. Sin is the very thing that separates us from God and makes suffering probable. If God were to suddenly stop the Holocaust it would most likely result in Him going back on His promise since WWII was purely because of man's depravity in sinful nature. From this we can conclude that God values our free will over our temporary earthly happiness (1 John 2:15-17)... which leads us into my next point. The third part of the answer of why God could allow suffering could be that the ultimate purpose to life is NOT necessarily earthly contentment, but rather the knowledge of God (1 Tim 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Only the knowledge of the gospel can bring eternal salvation to people, which in turn brings everlasting life, joy, peace, and happiness (1 Peter 1:8). But sometimes the knowledge of God can only be brought through what we consider as trials and suffering. Many examples of this can be given but the most classic one is the life the apostle Paul documented in the New Testament. He spent most of his Christian life in tremendous suffering for the sake of the gospel yet he had overwhelming thankfulness and praise to God for using him to bring many people to the knowledge of the gospel before he was executed in Rome (Philippians 3: 8-9) . We will be dead for a lot longer than we have been alive. Our short lives here on earth is just a blink compared to eternity (2 Peter 3:8) Whether we spend it in relationship with God or under His wrath against sin depends on how we lived our lives and if we put our faith in Jesus Christ before its too late. If it takes a full earthly life of suffering to bring about the better good of eternal life, one can think it very worthy deal (Romans 1:16) Then finally, we often look at suffering and see only how terrible it presently is and assume that no good could possibly come from it. It may look just look like pointless, unnecessary agony. While this may seem to be the case to our very limited knowledge, God has a much wider scope of wisdom. He is omniscient (all knowing), eternal (without beginning or end), omnipresent (exists everywhere) and sovereign (not forced to act). These are some of His attributes that allow him to be beyond time, space, and outside influence to allow for suffering at this time to allow for a greater outcome in the future. As finite persons, we're not in any position to say that it's improbable that God lacks good reasons for permitting suffering in the world because He knows everything! All knowledge of the universe, the beginning of history to the end of time, every thought, every decision we make, every decision we do not make and the infinite outcomes that could have come to pass is no mystery to God. Every event that occurs sends a ripple effect through history, such that God's reason for permitting it might not emerge until centuries later in a completely different part of the world. Some short-term good might actually lead to untold misery, while some action that looks disastrous right now may bring about the greatest good. That is why, even in the midst of suffering, we need to trust in the Lord with all our hearts and lean not on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6). If God doesn't exist, then suffering may be painful, but it isn't bad in a moral sense. Why then are atheists even aware that tragic events are bad? But that just loops back up to my first premise. So clearly the Christian worldview can makes sense of pain and suffering. Even though that's true, it doesn't make the anguish under suffering go away because the pain if still very real. The bible, however, offers hope for it. It tells us that God is not some distant uncaring being, but a loving Father who personally shares our hurts with us. As a matter of fact, He also is very accustomed to suffering himself. On the cross Christ endured a suffering beyond all understanding; He bore the punishment for the sins of the entire world. A suffering that isn’t comprehensible to any of us. Though he was completely innocent, He voluntarily underwent unfathomable suffering because of His crazy love for us -that we may have a way out of God's wrath against sin and a way to eternal life. Christ lived a life we should have lived and died a death we should have died. How can we reject Him who gave up everything for us? We are totally undeserving of this gift of forgiveness (Romans 3:23). It is totally by God's grace alone. (Ephesians 2:8-9). Because He so loved the World he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life! (John 3:16) And it is up to us individually if we accept God’s grace or reject Him.

This was deep, but I thought it was a great answer to one of life's BIGGEST questions. We have ALL asked this question... What is all comes down to is, God loves us all, Jesus is proof of that... Jesus's life AND death AND resurrection... all proof of His love. The rest will be shown to us in His time...

Phenomenal Pastor Keller

Thanks! And I like the guy asking the question. Normally I want them to disappear so I can just listen to the answer, but he was fun.

Sometimes people forget that there's also the powers of darkness on the move as well, can't blame God for the works of the evil one which having a bond and an alliance with a lot of humans, especially the one in power.

Please get somebody else to handle the camera next time. PLEASE!!!

Extremely well articulated, great job Tim Keller.

When we say "I can't think of a reason why God would allow suffering", we mean "I can't think of a way suffering could happen without God either being malevolent or non existent. But those explanations aren't acceptable if you want to maintain your belief in a loving God.

Let's accept for a moment that all these strenuous explanations, of why god allows this suffering in the world are true. No matter how revolting this might appear in the face of your most human instincts. Let's simply accept it. But how, then, is this god distinguishable from one that does not exist at all?

The camera movement is Very distracting.. I had to shut my eyes to listen. TRIPOD next time k? lol

Keller evades the question, brilliantly.

Wow!! Gonna share this with everyone!

ITS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO DO BAD

I've never understood why this question is such a conundrum for some people. Its really quite simple in Christian theology....which tells us that Jesus came to save us.....but save us from what? If God didn't allow evil or suffering, then there would be no sin, and no reason for mankind to need saving. This gets to the very heart of theology. God gave man free will. Man sinned. The wages of sin is death. People that died in the holocaust were sinners just like everyone else. All of mankind is cursed and will die. Now obviously not everyone believes that, but the Bible is remarkably clear about this. www.gotquestions.org/parable-fig-tree.html

Great Discussion!*

I REALLY NEED SUCH A RESPONSE

God didn't intervene in the holocaust because that would've violated the law of free will for us as human beings. What would free will be if god stopped us every time we did something bad? He didn't program us, like robots, to love him. It wouldn't even be real love if we didn't have a choice. Now he gave us a choice, either chose him and accept his gift of salvation through Christ Jesus and repent, or don't. What isnt of God is evil, and evil is the absence of God, a violation of purpose. God knew from the beginning we would chose sin which is why he set forth his plan to come down and bear the wages of sin on himself, for us. All we gotta do is chose him and accept his gift of salvation.

Yes, many people really have chosen evil and yes God knew that they would; so He made a way for anyone to go to Heaven who would freely choose God and His goodness, choosing Jesus and HIs sacrifice, in spite of not being able to see Him with earthly eyes, which means, among other things, sometimes humans must sacrifice their own perceived "good" for the good of others; With His help, of course, they could do so and would not think with pride about themselves and negate their sacrifice. The choice is real and the example of those who have chosen selfishly or have chosen to follow Jesus, reveals the truth of a real choice. Furthermore, the presence of evil and the ability to choose it, means that when one chooses God or "the good" one has the chance to be a hero something like our Lord, Jesus, the ultimate hero, who had nothing to gain for Himself but the eventual love of humankind ; and so God created the possibility of heroism out of the initial ; and those humans did not even initially appreciate the Love of God, nor the way of sacrificing for others; nevertheless, He gave up His life for those who were His enemies; but He did so, knowing that some would become His children, living for Him, the way He lived for others and still does. Yes, some would choose to follow Him, no matter the cost. And after choosing Christ, many did die horrific deaths, but knew they would receive "a better resurrection" and with His help heroically faced death. They are extolled in Heaven forever.

Fascinating.

Our God so great that He can’t be put in our box. We must be careful to not just make our small understandings who God is. He has infinite understanding and knows all things. Let us never forget how much good we have seen that has come out of suffering. Community is coming together gods people loving one another in more intense ways and so on. Suffering sometimes appears as a mystery to us. But there is one truth here that we know God doesn’t abandon his people. He never abandons mankind Even though we turn our back on Him.

A cats broken leg will be as painful as an human with a broken leg!

He is preparing us for ETERNAL LIFE. Read the Bible from Genesis through Revelation. Ask Him to show you the Truth and His Holy Spirit will lead you into ALL Truth! The Wisdom of man is foolishness to God.

To me, the absolutely logical answer is the free will. God loves us so much, that he lets us choose for ourselves, because otherwise our love for him would not have any value. And sadly, we are choosing the wrong things far too often, as individuals as well as the entire human race (suffering does NOT necessarily mean that you have made a wrong decision yourself!). That is the choice that Adam made, and we are continuing with it since that time.

Reading about the horrific abuse Isaiah Torres suffered and I’m struggling with this. I don’t understand why God would allow a 6 year old child to suffer like he did

The Bible clearly states: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1 John 5:19) When we think about it, does that not make sense? This world reflects the personality of the invisible spirit creature who is “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Revelation 12:9) Satan is hateful, deceptive, and cruel. So the world, under his influence, is full of hatred, deceit, and cruelty. That is one reason why there is so much suffering.

Keller is a master mind! I have faith in my God jesus too.

How can we know, appreciate, respect and care for what we believe is good, if there is no contrast presented to reveal its value. We cannot know Joy, if we do not know and experience Sorrow.

As an engineer, an axiom is that nothing complex works without a design. Life is so complex that it is mathematically impossible for life to have developed and exist without a design engineer. I view God as the Chief Engineer of the Universe.

Why so many Christians cannot answer this question ? In fact, of all the world scriptures only in Bible we read God came to world to love us but no where his intention was to keep us free from suffering and dying. Sounds contradicting ? Loving God lets people suffer ? Think deeper here. Love does not exist without freedom. Most important for God is to offer freedom/grace. Suffering, natural disasters do happen as natural events, God just cannot stop them, had He not himself restrained, the very freedom would have been at stake and so His love. His grace was magnificently demonstrated in the crucifixion, God could not save his own son, he let th evil had a hay day on that Friday. Without freedom all of us would be just robots. God is not a Santa clause or a miracle worker as many believe.

No answer to a direct question

We must learn suffering to understand true love. There must be darkness to appreciate the light. People seem to learn the most from pain and I believe it's because pain comes from the heart, which is where we are supposed to live anyways.

Brilliant answer. Absolutely on point. God has to deal with us and in doing so we are seeing the results of his striving to save his creation. Jesus was about saving Humanity and infrastructure. He did get the job done. Believing that is key. Accept eternal life now.

The pastor sure says a lot without saying absolutely nothing. He is good at flipping all over the place and not answering a question.

This was the best no answer ever!

Great responses

Powerful argument from the pastor

Evil doesn't prove there is no god. It does, however, invalidate the theistic argument that it's possible for there to be a god that is all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving.

If God, why evil? Well to help people understand that their question is self-defeating, we have to go to Genesis 1: 26 And God said: "Let Us make man in Our own image and let them have dominion..." So God took dirt, and made flesh of it, and shaped it, and molded it, and breathed the breath of life into it. The spirit of man comes from the breath of God. The Hebrew word for man is “ish”, and the Hebrew word for spirit is “ruach” pronounced “roo’-akh”, and the Hebrew word for dirt is adamah pronounced “ad-aw-maw”. This is where Adam gets his name from, the first man, from dirt. Dominion means to have supremacy, authority, rule, this is what God intended for us to have. To understand that text, we have to understand just how faithful and true God is to His own Word, when God says something, it automatically becomes law. When He said "let them have dominion..." this is what He meant: let them, who are spirit beings, in a dirt suit (flesh), be the rulers over the all the earth and it's resources. He, God, made Himself illegal on Earth, because God is spirit, the Great Spirit, without a body. So God literally had His hands tied, He couldn't/cannot go against His own word. He gave US dominion, you and I, human beings, we are the rulers of this planet, but....we lost the earth to Satan, the day Adam and Eve let themselves be deceived by Satan. Remember when God said "...in the day that you eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall surely die..." God wasn't talking to Adam the flesh, He was talking to Adam the spirit. So your next question might be: So what? If God is all powerful and almighty, why can't He just go against His own law, and save us? Well be careful now, because if you want God to go against His own word and break His own laws, how could you trust Him? What would that do to His credibility?? So, God HAD to let Adam and Eve be tempted by Satan, He HAD to “stand by” and watch His creation fall, and He HAD to let them make the choice themselves, to fall for Satan's lie, or believe God. If God had interfered, He would have violated His own Word when He said that He would create us in His image, which entails having free will to choose for ourselves, otherwise we would be nothing more than autonomous beings like robots designed and created to follow God's orders, this is to say that, God had a choice to make, create robots programmed to follow His every instruction to the letter, which would not be in His image, or create human beings with a will and a choice to rebel against Him and His ordinances, and that, was the only option He had wherein we as humans have a choice to love Him and keep His ordinances. Keep that in mind. Now Adam was faced with the easiest choice in the world, but he was lied to, by Satan, that should they eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they "...will not surely die", and that they would become like God, knowing the difference between good and evil. That was the lie, it's a lie because they were already like God, sinless, blameless and Holy. Adam and Eve, as we all know, ate of the fruit, and immediately, they died, spiritually, their spirit men, that God Himself breathed into their bodies, died. But in the flesh, they lived on, for 100's of years at that, but they were spiritually dead, their children were born spiritually dead. Keep that in mind I'm taking you somewhere. Now, Satan deceived Adam and Eve, caused them to trip and fall short of the glory of God, God, being all loving, makes clothes for Adam and Eve (think about that: the first creature to be killed on Earth, maybe a goat or a lamb, was killed by God) so they wouldn't feel ashamed because they now know that they have been naked all this time. And God says to Satan: Genesis 3:14-15 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall crush your head, And you shall bruise His heel.” So let's break THAT down: God curses the serpent to crawl on its belly and eat dust for all of its days, God did this because the serpent would, from that day on, be a reminder to man of the day he fell short of the glory God, every time man would see a snake he would remember the day he was deceived by an animal over which he was meant to have dominion. Verse 15 is where God speaks not to the serpent, but to Satan who inhabited the body of the serpent, because if you recall spirits are illegal on earth, any spirit without a body is illegal, so Satan used the fleshly body of the serpent to conduct his business with Eve. So God says to Satan that He will put enmity between him and the woman, and between the seed of the woman and his seed, He will bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel, this is very important to understand, it all ties into the reality of society today. What’s important here is God says that “He will crush your head…”, to understand that we have to understand what “head” meant back in those days, which is authority, principalities or dominion. Then we have to look at “heel”, back then when a baby was born, the physician, or “Dr.”, would hold the baby upside down by its heel, the baby would start crying, then everyone would know that the baby is alive, so essentially the heel was associated with life. So “He will crush your head, and you shall bruise His heel” is a prophecy by our Most High God: “You Satan, will kill Him, but only for a little while, but He will crush your principalities and authority and take back this world that you have stolen by deceiving the people whom I have given this world to.” This “He” that God was referring to is Jesus Christ, Jesus the man being the dirt suit, and Jesus the Christ being God Himself inhabiting the fleshly body of Jesus the man. Basically God said to Satan: “OK Satan, I see what you did there, that was clever, but I have one better, I will come down to earth LEGALLY, and set the record straight for my people and My name’s sake.” Now just to quickly go back to the creation, notice that God always creates the environment before creating the being that will inhabit it, He created the seas then He created the fish, He created the land then He created the animals. The Garden of Eden represents the presence of God, that was the environment He placed Adam in, His presence. Now what happens to a plant if you remove it from the ground? It malfunctions and dies, what happens to a fish when you remove it from the water? It malfunctions and dies, what happens when you remove man from the presence of God? He goes crazy and kills people. So I ask you, who is responsible for all the evil in the world? Satan? Nope, he has been defeated for our sakes, Satan’s demons? Nope, they have no power over us, we have been given the authority of Christ Jesus and He assured us that we have the victory. Give this some thought; where are you going when you die? Where do you want to go? I want you to really think about it, let’s say for argument’s sake that God does exist, Heaven and hell really do exist, which one do you want to go to? It is after all your choice, where do you want to spend eternity? Don’t think that you’re not ready, no one ever is, the time for salvation is now, not an hour from now, or tomorrow, it’s right now, forget about the person next to you, this is about you, not them, this is your life not theirs, I know you’re feeling a struggle on the inside, that’s normal, that’s your dead spirit yearning to be alive, to be born again. If you want a life that’s everlasting, the time is now, make that choice for yourself, ask God to come into your life and revive you. Ask Him to restore to you everything this world has taken from you, purpose, focus, the will to live, all of it, God can give it back to you and much more. Say this prayer with me: Father in heaven, I know that I am a sinner, I know that I have fallen short of your glory, I know that I cannot make it on my own, therefore I ask you to come into my life and revive my spirit, I ask you to forgive me of my sins, I believe in my heart that you sent your only begotten Son to die for my sins and that You raised Him from the dead on the 3rd day, and I confess with my mouth that He is Lord and my Savior. I thank you Father, I receive my forgiveness, I am now your child, a new creation in the name of Jesus, fill me with Your Holy Spirit, I am set free. I am going to follow You, forever and ever, in the name of Jesus, Amen.

Without holy spirits,it's quite difficult to believe the existence of God,but intellectual and philosophical ideas can not make you believe .

Just wait and watch

Keller avoids the question should be a politician

because man is sinful and rebellious against the law of God and therefore God has given them over to their sinfulness and the consequences of their sin. read romans 1:18-32

God hasn't yet put a stop to the suffering we endure on this earth because everyone has freedom of choice, without which we would all be automatons. Automatons, by their nature, are unable to love, and God is love. He desires our loving response in return. Love cannot be commanded, it can only be won in an atmosphere of freedom. That must then allow for freedom to choose to do the wrong thing too. He has promised, however, that an end to suffering and death is coming, and with it, restoration and a new life.

There is no greater injustice than the condemnation of a man for crimes he was not guilty of. The tragedy of it all is when the man willingly faces such injustice to uphold his convictions knowing he will ultimately be persecuted with no compassion for his testimony regardless how wrong the jury is.

Eight minutes of the same hand-waving, rhetorical distractions, and logical evasions Christians usually give on this question. To paraphrase: - "Under atheism, you have no basis for asking the question." It's not atheism that is offering claims about God that are inconsistent with our experience. It's Christianity. - "When someone is hurting, the best answer is compassion." The question was a logical and factual one, not a request about how to comfort grieving people. - "It can't be a lack of love because Jesus died for us." So God can't both die for us AND prevent suffering at other times too? Isn't he omnipotent? - "There might be a reason we just don't know about." That doesn't mean there IS some hidden reason, and until we have evidence that there is, all the other experience in our lives leads us to the conclusion that it's much more likely that a God of this type simply doesn't exist. The mere _possibility_ of some hidden reason that doesn't violate God's asserted justice or compassion doesn't equate to a high _probability_ for it. The most straightforward and honest part of his whole response was at 5:55: "Why didn't he come down and stop the Holocaust?" "I don't know." And a fully honest answer would have been, "I don't know, but I just choose to keep believing it anyway, because I want to."

Tim Keller sounds like a lawyer. Never a straight forward answer.

I think God has given us all sorts of means to help alleviate suffering, and it is our responsibility to use them. Think of all the advances in science, technology, understanding of human nature... These are gifts, IMO, from God, and it is our responsibility to use them to help others. We are the ones who can act to do something about the general human condition, and God will continue to provide various means to assist in our efforts. Hence those of us who are religious have a doubly-important duty to serve and stop evil and suffering to the best of our abilities.

Jesus had skin in the game. That's one of the things I love about him, and that he loves me OF ALL PEOPLE. That's a real mystery. RIP Timothy Keller and read his book The Reason for God🎉

“I have a cat”?? What?? I’ll bet Keller was a dodgeball champion in school..

He wrote it in all caps, so it must be true.

It's really pretty simple it's the Integrity of his gift of free will to us that keeps him from intervening

Right thanks

First off remove Jesus from this discussion coz there has never been proof of his existence and stop talking for God let him or her explain him or herself, you say his real right? Let him talk and tell us . I just don't even get why he wanna be worshipped before he do something you asked or send a,blessing your way. So if I don't worshipped him I won't get no blessings? Just like slave masters , you don't work you don't eat or even get killed and got supported that coz if he didn't we wouldn't be talking about it. Thank you, Thobani from South Africa.

Awesome

HE GIVES. PEOPLE FREE WILL

God gives us free will

The right response to someone in the middle of suffering 1:57

God is love and if humans teach hatred and divide each other in order to control that is the wickedness we get the nerve ending cycle of suffering from cruelty of others who have no love

God is the existence of Love. We all believe in Love. To degrade that comes consequences.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Tim keller!!

The fact is, is that there is no reason for suffering. We only know that it is not unjust.

God CAN cause events that result in suffering but suffering is primarily the result of the evil inherent in man since the taking of the forbidden fruit.. The second area of suffering in physical “evils” such a tsunami or cancer are outcomes of the design and physics of the world. But these are opportunities for man to strengthen his relationship with God by focusing on God as man walks through this suffering to greater faith, better place in one’s life and at times to develop solutions that go on to improve man’s life. These offer man the opportunity for growth that otherwise would not have occurred and thus a closer relationship with God.

Can I just get an answer to this question...who did this camera work and can said person be helped? Goodness man, it's hard to focus on what's being said with all the movement.

I believe God doesn't stop the evil immediately is because he is being merciful....allowing people to have a free will. Since Jesus' purpose has already been fulfilled and we live in a new covenant, there's no reason to use physical violence anymore.

“Suffering and the God of Love” ~ Fr. Robert Spitzer On RU-vid

God allows suffering for learning purposes only to teach us right from wrong and from a polarity between darkness and light many people will receive hardship on earth at God's will but they will all I herit heaven which is a place of eternal peace and happiness

A second reason why there is so much suffering is that, mankind has been imperfect and sinful ever since the rebellion in the garden of Eden. Sinful humans tend to struggle for dominance, and this results in wars, oppression, and suffering. (Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9) A third reason for suffering is “time and unforeseen occurrence.” (Ecclesiastes 9:11) In a world without Jehovah as a protective Ruler, people may suffer because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

One of the best answers I have received. This video.

The Jewish believers themselves continue to believe fervently and why would we turn and run rather than see this and be drawn deeper still into a faith worth following.

The Protestant Shuffle. It’s a beautiful dance.

Deep

We can be sure that just as He did in the days of Noah and Sodom and Gomorrah, he will soon intervene and rid the earth of all its woes.

The reason is one of his greatest gifts to us. Free will. Unfortunately there are people who have evil in their heart and CHOOSE to do evil, they choose to be greedy, they CHOOSE to be unforgiving etc... for him to stop anyone from doing anything kind or unjust would not be in his nature because he has given us choice. That is where these issues cross from a "God problem" to a people problem. God has never shed blood (not even Jesus, man chose to crucify him) but it was his WILL, so that he was the payment for humanity

Wow what an incredible dodge

Who says that salvation isn't the relief from all evil as well as access to the grace of Heaven? To be religious is to wonder beyond science and the cold grave and come up with a hope for meaning for which you live and for which you die!

God gave us free will, and one of the consequences of free will is that there is evil.

I like Dr Keller’s point on remaining silent and listening to someone who is suffering. It is a sign of emphathy. But as far as the point about higher law providing the moral compass it doesn’t necessarily come from scripture. You can see that in Children and even animals. ( Jesus said, the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these) So is there innate goodness or innate sin or both? The current dogmas on salvation does not address these contradictions.

🙏

Anyone who asks 'how can God exist with so much suffering in the world?' isn't interested in the answer, or the truth of that answer for that matter.

Was just waiting for him to say 'Man has free will'. That's the usual pat answer to such questions. He still didn't answer the question though. But if man is made in God's likeness, all I can say is that he must be an evil entity

Suffering,death, is the reminder of our depraved nature,resulting of sin in Eden.We are all by nature ,son of perdition,sinners.For a believer,the present suffering is nothing compare to the glory that await him in his eternal life to come.

There is simply no point in being a good believer. God may choose to hurt you for reasons you do not understand, regardless of whatever actions you took or thoughts you have.

We could also take a humble approach and acknowledge that God did send people to stop the oppression and suffering around the world. He sent people to stop the Holocaust. It was the church. Unfortunately, we have not fulfilled our responsibilities in this regard throughout history. Isaiah 58 is a good chapter that talks about this.