Without the Matrix, Does Optimus Prime revert back to Orion Pax? 

Orion Pax eventually became a merchant, who we know today as Amazon Prime.

Saying Optimus can go back to being Orion is a lot like saying RoboCop can go back to being Alex Murphy.

I like the idea that Scourge’s body reacted in such a mutated-looking way to the Matrix because he is a product of Unicron and the Matrix is deadly to Unicron

I like how hot rod got upgraded by the matrix but Orion pax was built by aphla trion so he can't get downgraded without the matrix

No, because he was already rebuilt into Optimus before receiving the Matrix, whereas Hot Rod never had a refurbishment. It's like how a new graphics card boosts performance but doesn't change how the computer tower looks

Optimus Prime's body was designed to hold the Matrix and was intentionally designed to become the Leader of the Autobots. Ultra Magnus had a similar design of Optimus, likely with the intent of being Prime's eventual successor.

No sure why this was showed in my feed but I'm amazed to know that much lore abou the transformers' stories

I also think it is because he was re built, another theory, it is because Rodimus, in his heart wants to go back to be Hotrod, he just loves to be a carefree daredevil warrior looking for action. As for Optimus Knows he must prevail as the Leader of the Autobot cause. That is why Ultra Magnus was never unaffected either, he was accepted as a bearer, but not as a Prime, because at heart he didn´t wanted to lead either. The Matrix Reacts to different hosts in different ways. The Matrix rejected Galvatron Completely, as for Scourge, he was accepted, but since he was corrupted by Unicron, his change was twisted. The matrix has a lot of powers, and reverting Rodimus Back to Hotrod is one of them. Just Another theory.

I've always been a big Ultra Magnus fan, but he proved himself an unworthy leader when he thought that his imminent destruction was the Autobots darkest hour.. Great leaders aren't focused on their own fate but the fate of their cause.

If hasbo does a Optimus prime solo movie they can use the story in the episode war Dawn to tell his origin story.

Hot Rod was upgraded by the Matrix while Optimus was upgraded by Alpha Trion and picked up the Matrix later. I think that's the major difference between the two.

Because the average kid wouldn't want the Orion Pax toy.

This is definatly a good topic, but us old schoolers know that Aipha Trion physically built Orion Pax into Optimus Prime. That being said, he will always maintain that look. Ofcourse Hot Rod is just changed by the matrix only. I can see where that would be a question for some that did not see this awesome G1 series over and over. The G1 series for me, never gets old. For me, its what is and always was. Thanks for the great video!

Only Hot Rod "powers up" because... he's the Chosen One! ^_^

6:00 no wonder Optimus wears his mouth guard...... look at those LIPS lol

because alpha trion made him a new body.

In the five faces of death mini serious, when Rodimus was learning from the previous leaders. None of them changed. Ultra Magnus when he received the matrix from Optimus ,he didn't change at all! This would lead to the conclusion that the matrix increased Hot Rods body and strength for a certain reason. To be able to fight and defeat Galvatron. Ultra Magnus body was strong and powerful enough that didn't need to be changed. As for Optimus, it was the similar situation. His former body was to weak to fight megatron. But once alpha trion rebuilt him, Optimus's body was enhanced by his creator. And thus the matrix did not need to change Optimus body. But it did give Prime the power and wisdom that was needed. Hot Rod is the only autobot that the matrix decided to change when he became Rodimus Prime. He is a unique case.

If I hearing right, the transform civil war had been going on for nearly 5 million years ever befor the first episode, that's one hell of a long war.

"Gave the matrix back to a quintesson controlled zombie Optimus Prime" ...... Thank you for that mind blowingly accurate, but completely insane sounding sentence.

I've never really liked how Rodimus kept reverting back to Hot Rod personality-wise when he loses the Matrix, it kinda annihilates the character development he gets in the Movie by attributing the personality change entirely to the Matrix instead of an actual natural personality change he got through developing as a person and a character. So, to me, whether or not it's because he got rebuilt before he got the Matrix or whatever, it makes sense to me for Optimus not to revert back to Orion Pax when he loses the Matrix.

Hot Rod is the true Prime, the chosen one, only he is transformed by the Matrix. (Transformers 1984 G1 cartoon series)

3:20 Beware my pink nails! LOL

It was a complete remodel when Alpha Trion worked on him in episode War Dawn. So no, he cannot revert back to Orion Pax. Same way Elita 1 cannot revert back to Ariel.

The reason prime don’t turn back into Orion pax is because he was damaged by megatron and was found by the prime before him and was repaired and THEN given the matrix of leadership.

After rewatching this video, I still agreed on my original response that Optimus Prime cannot revert back to Orion Pax because he was rebuild!!!

I still feel like becoming a Prime should be a permanent upgrade, with or without the matrix. Just like how a computer gets a download from a disk.

I think it doesn't effect Prime's body because Alpha Trion actually rebuilt his body. So it doesn't down grade him to Orion Pax's body because Orion's body is no more. It's only Prime's body now.

IF Orion Pax was upgraded by the Matrix, I wonder how he'd look. He might look COMPLETELY different to Optimus Prime. I'd love to see a Transformers series or comic where this happens.

I knew the answer was "because Alpha Trion physically rebuilt him into his current form while Hot Rod was transformed by the Matrix" when I saw the title. Still a great presentation, tho! 👍

As for the G1 version, I think that only the "chosen" ones that can access the Matrix get a physical upgrade when they have possession of it. That would be why Ultra Magnus doesn't change when he has it.

Keep in mind that Optimus had the Matrex for literally millions of years, compare to the few months that Rodimus did, likely making the changes permanent. Also, Prime candidacy is probably a rare trait.

I agree with everyone here who are saying that Optimus doesn't revert back because he was given the Matrix after he got rebuilt. I have nothing else to say, so, this was a great video and I hope you have a great day.

I got three words for you.... that's just prime

Here I am wasting time on message boards when there's a new Rodimus Primal video up!

Key differences are as follows. Orion Pax was rebuilt to be compatible with the Matrix of Leadership. Hence why he didn't need to be changed by the Matrix. Ultra Magnus wasn't choosen and not worthy of The Matrix. Hence why no effect. Hot Rod was young and worthy of the Matrix and not upgraded to be compatible. Hence why The Matrix changed Hot Rod into Rodimus Prime. The Galvatron Ghost effect was because Galvatron tried to use The Matrix to power his weapon.

I was hoping, and was not disappointed, when you included that epic quote from Galvatron: "oh really? It was The matrix? Then this, too, is the fault of The matrix!!"

He would, if he wasn't rebuilt by Alpha Trion into the body he has now. The Matrix didn't edit his body, as it had already been edited by construction. His "new" Orion Pax body and his Optimus Prime body are the same. Ultra Magnus didn't get edited, as it hadn't been opened. Galvatron didn't get edited either, as a Natural Autobot is needed, not a Decepticon. Oh, and when a Matrix Bearer dies, a section of his spark enters the Matrix. This has a different effect on different Autobots, hence Optimus and most others gain charisma and leadership, but Rodimus gains severe Self-esteem issues.

Depends on continuity. G1, no as he gives the matrix to rodimus before the suicide run on the quintessons. Prime, only in his mind. Bayverse, no as he didn't even have the matrix for the first film.

Love the video, but you really have two questions here, not one. The first question is why the G1 Optimus Prime never reverted back to Orion Pax without the Matrix. The answer is simple, Orion Pax was NOT upgraded by the Matrix into Optimus Prime, but was instead rebuilt by Alpha Trion into Optimus Prime. He was the most advanced and powerful warrior of his day, qualities which were only enhanced by the Matrix. This is in contrast to Hot Rod who was upgraded by the Matrix into Rodimus Prime. However, by bringing in the other continuities, you have unearthed a second question. Is there a continuity or universe in which Optimus Prime CAN revert to his former Orion Pax self? The answer is none that we know of...yet. Of course, that is just my take. Love to hear your thoughts, and thanks for another awesome video.

Awesome breakdown! Love the G1 transformer grid background too! More than meets the eye!

Rodimus was the fulfillment of a prophesy. "One day an Autobot shall rise from our ranks, and use the power of the Matrix to light our darkest hour" It could also be argued by another line of dialogue just before that. When originally offered the Matrix, Magnus says "I'm just a soldier, I'm not worthy" to which Prime responds "nor was I " meaning the reason Prime and Magnus be er changed was because that were not worst, but ,Hot Rod was the prophesied one

Optimus has the power of smooth talking!

I always liked the way transformers can go from sci-fi to sci-fantasy seamlessly. It gives the whole thing more gravitas. Thanks for going over this!

I personally would love if a later series would revisit Thunderwing as a concept.

I always found validation regarding my headcanon for Dion-Ultra Magnus by the fact that he and Optimus Prime have the same design for the Matrix Compartment created by Alpha Trion.

that's because Orion Pax killed by Megatron in G1 series, and Alpha Trion rebuilt his body like our Optimus Prime, then gave him the Matrix of leadership.

You're spot on. Optimus was rebuilt prior to receiving the matrix so he can't revert back. Till all are one you legend!

Great vid. Those comics look dope, BTW.

well orion pax died and was remade into optimus prime, so technically optimus's form is his original form

I agree alpha tron rebuild orion pax into optimus prime then put the matrix inside him.

I think alpha trion rebuilt Pax to be fully capable of using the matrix as a leader. The boost the matrix gives him is in his wisdom and knowledge of past leaders rather than a transformative power boost. Prime taps into the Matrix's power as needed. The matrix transforms hot rod into rodimus because hes a base unit transformer and is probably malleable by design still. It doesn't affect Galvatron because he's already a transformed Megatron by Unicron. Unicron probably uses a similar ability to the matrix to upgrade his soldiers. And I think scourge is only a partial upgrade rather than a full overhaul which makes the matrix incompletely transform him and like Hotrod he reverts after its removed. Ultra Magnus is also a reworked transformer upgraded like Prime by Alpha trion. Like Prime he doesn't exactly power up possessing it, and probably also acts as a carrier but never got the chance to tap into it like Prime can. He's just not as good. A great soldier but easily blindsided. But like Prime hes hard to destroy. Probably even harder than prime to destroy. Hence why they can just rebuild him so easily after literally being pulled to pieces by the joints.

Very early speculation: Orion Pax was not reformatted directly by the Matrix, but rebuilt by Alpha Trion with the intention of carrying it. Let's see RP's take, though. EDIT: Seems we are in agreement

Does anyone ever remember what his job was before the war? He was a librarian Well, a Record's Clerk, or a Bookie But he had the most terrifyingly mundane job, and was drafted into curbstomping Decepicons No, not drafted Volunteered

This is a nice analysis man!

If I had to guess for an in-universe explanation, it may have to do with Matrix Affinity, or experience. Optimus had the Matrix for eons, he was a tried and proven leader, so he had long since settled into the identity of Optimus Prime. With Rodimus, he still longs for his carefree days of being Hot Rod, and he still had his doubts towards his own leadership. He was still on that journey Optimus was on. With Optimus, he was Optimus with or without the Matrix, so his spark had settled into that form the Matrix had given him. With Rodimus, the difference between him and Hot Rod is responsibility of the Matrix/Prime Hood. He had yet to really accept that. To paraphrase the good books, "When I was a child, I thought as a child, spoke as a child, acted as a child. When I became a man I put childish things away." In Rodimus' case it's less 'man' and more Prime, and he has yet to do that. ... Or you know, it's because Optimus was rebuilt into Optimus from Orion Pax, via Alpha Trion and then given the Matrix, or even built to have the body of a Prime. Personally I prefer my theory because it's more character driven.

The effect on Scourge was much more interesting in its implications.

Tbh, this video has told me something I had already figured. But it does give some weight to the Ultra Magnus is Dion argument in my eyes. I also assumed that the reason it didn't effect Galvatron while it was chained to him was because either it did not choose him, or it will not work worn as a necklace. Mostly the latter. Also, the Billy Batson analogy made me smile. :)

I guess Optimus' body is already suitable for the Matrix, so his body didn't need to go further adjusted with the matrix. He can harness and access the power of Matrix because he's already suitable after being rebuilt by Alpha Trion.

I think it's and interesting thought that Optimas may not have been built originally with an affinity for the matrix in G1 similar to Ultra Magnus. This could be where the term "primes aren't built, they are made" more true as until Hot rod, no one could have been built at their creation with an affinity for the relic for sever generations which is why sentinal and a few other primes who had the matrix turned bad as they weren't true primes. Optimus became a prime, hot rod was born as one. This builds a lot of respect for Optimus, as he truly started as nothing but a humble data clerk and became a leader without compare even amongst those created for that purpose.

If you remember, several times Optimus has been reborn during the entire G1, especially during a good few episodes that Japan had when we had as they called it "double Convoy mode". Optimus never reverted back when he wasn't holding the matrix and he was brought back several times and gave the matrix back to Hotrod on each occasions.

He was rebuilt as Optimus Prime that is why he can’t revert back to Orion Pax.

Orion Pax was rebuilt into Optimus prime ,so the Matrix only make stronger, & smarter.

Well obviously he can’t be Orion pax again because he was rebuilt

I believe you have it nailed down solidly. It's a new body, before, getting the MATRIX..and so the only thing that changes, is his power levels.

Thing is Optimus was rebuilt to hold the matrix, Rodimus was transformed By the matrix. Prime was never transformed by it, he was rebuilt into a Prime without it, to hold it. The others were not Primes to begin with.

Great! I think, this is Stuff to think and to be astonished!!! Wonderful!!! Orion Pax and Optimus Prime are the same and even different. And i saw, Orion Pax lack his Autobot Emblem.

Great video!!!! Question I’ve always thought of but never asked and accepted it. Haha

I often wondered this myself. However I think there's a point you might have missed. Though Rodimus has reverted back into Hotrod when losing the Matrix, when Optimus Prime died, he died AS Optimus Prime. The dead body wouldn't have reverted back to anything. Also (and this is just my head canon) Optimus held the Matrix for 9 million years, I'm guessing the change was permanent at that point. Rodimus hel the Matrix for what, two years?

I assume a lot of Transformers fans who never watched the G1 cartoon must have requested this. And with all the different Transformers continuity alternate universes there is confusion. Now to discuss Primus, Unicron and the Matrix of leadership as per the G1 Cartoon and 86 movie. As everyone knows the Matrix contains the accumulated Wisdom, Knowledge and Experiences of past leaders including Primus and his nemesis Unicron. I would assume some time in the movie Optimus would be alerted to Unicron, but it was never shown or discussed by Optimus. So after his battle with Megatron that fatally wounded Optimus, he was aware that an Autobot would rise from the ranks and use the Matrix, with the essence of Primus to destroy Unicron in that continuity. Now speculation as per Hot Rod, I would suspect Primus had foreseen that Hot Rod with the Matrix, would turn into Rodimus Prime and use the Matrix to destroy the nemesis of Primus and all the Transformers, Unicron. This assumption comes from the series finale the Rebirth where Vector Sigma is communicating with Optimus about the Plasma Energy Chamber and the next Golden Age of Cybertron. Since Vector Sigma and the Matrix are linked to Primus, thus communicating to Optimus about Unicron in the G1 86 movie would also make sense.

I never liked the idea of Rodimus reverting back to Hot Rod without the matrix. To me, Hot Rod was a latent Prime all along, and the matrix simply awakened him. Another possible solution would be that an activated Matrix "fills out" its owner's body as necessary to contain the power. Hot Rod's body wasn't sufficient, so it got upgraded, while Optimus was already large enough. His new body was designed by Alpha Trion to harness the power output of the Matrix. Presumably, had Orion Pax been given the matrix before being rebuilt, he would have evolved into a larger form anyways. Magnus didn't get upgraded because the Matrix didn't activate for him. For that matter.... Optimus never activated the Matrix in the movie... maybe if he did, he would have evolved into an even larger form, Optimus Supreme or whatever you want to call it.

Is this video even necessary? We know Optimus' background. The episode that shows Orion Pax also shows him be rebuilt. So this issue can't be raised without it being resolved.

I would say no. Alpha Trion said that he constructed him and Alita with new designs, 'first line of new defenders.' Also, there is a episode called Dark Awakening, were Optimus Prime comes back (via quitessans) after dieing in the Movie. There we see Optimus Prime alive without the Matrix, he is not Orion Pax, but is Optimus.

9:56 The franchise would be much better if most of the ideas made for the Aligned Continuity were thrown in the trash. Like I’m with Optimus being, maybe being a descendant of the 13th Prime (or one of the Primes), but him being an actual member is garbage. They can keep The Fallen as Megatron’s namesake (but just as that), cause that doesn’t really effect Megatron all to much IMO, but ditch this 13th Prime crap.

Orion Pax received the matrix over 9 million years ago. Spending so much time with the matrix changed his personality as well.

He was built by alpha trion

He is honor and honestly given form he never thinks of himself first.He always thinks of OUTHERS and how his decisions will affect them whether he is the leader or not this is his nature and his nature can never die for people need it.And eveil can never destroy it because it just gets reborn.

Everyone: why did Optimus not change back into Orion pax Me: Orion was built into Optimus by Alpha Trion before he had the matrix!

Continuity-wise, according to episode number in the seasons 3 & 4 dvd booklet, "The Burden Hardest to Bear" precedes (and takes place prior to) "Dark Awakening", despite the original airdates of the episodes. Several episodes aired out of sequence, but if watched following the suggested episode order, it makes the overall continuity make more sense. When television channels air the episodes, they air them in the sequence they appear on the dvd, which is according to original airdate instead of going by numerical episode order.

It's almost like y'all didn't watch the video before commenting...

Another method one could look at this from is that over time with the Matrix of Leadership, the Transformer that it resides in loses the ability to revert back to its former form. That is to say, that with enough time with the Matrix, Optimus or other Primes retain their Prime form (though losing any strength and wisdom bonuses that come with the artifact installed) even when the artifact is removed.

I always thought with Optimus his body was built exclusively for the Matrix and like you said the matrix makes him a little stronger and to gain the wisdom or knowledge of the matrix.

I honestly agree with you.

If you're not aware of it, it sounds like you're having audio decompression or rendering issues. Examples are At 2:01, 4:59, 6:02, 7:39, 9:41, & 12:01. I also wish some explanation on the what the "Dead Universe" was as there is no context given. Probably could have brought up the horribly animated "City of Steel" episodes. This is where Prime was cut up and his body, presumably with the Matrix undamaged, into an Alligatorcon. Also wish we could read the Marvel UK comics here in the US. Even if not officially if anyone has an idea where to read them all, since a small portion were made available by IDW. One of these days I'll read the IDW storyline comics (I got out when they made a storyline with a Zombie Transformer) and sucks I missed that Humble Bundle offering earlier this year. Other than that, great video, although I was confused why anyone would think this about Optimus Prime/Orion Pax. I can understand not everyone remembering War Dawn, despite it being a great episode, and sets up the "Transwarp/Chronosphere" technology within the Beast Wars golden disc/story line. His death should have been proof enough in the Movie, but true that Ultra Magnus not changing as well. Again, the movie does explain and show "an Autobot will rise above our ranks," and thus Rodimus Prime considered himself "The Chosen One," as you described. Fun Fact: Per Flint Dilie, there was also a Transformers the Movie script that had the storyline of returning to Cybertron, to insert the Matrix into the very core of the planet. This would have activated the planet into a giant robot to fight Unicron. Unknown if the robot was named Primus, as Simon Furman in the G1 comics had not created that character as of yet. Keep up the great work! =P

I think with TF:P you could argue that 'physically', he doesn't become Orion Pax again because his body has already been modified (and probably this was done while he was still Orion Pax so like, Pre-Matrix but still now the leader of the Autobots and absolutely NOT built for war lmao ol' buddy needed to get that frame up to specs STAT) but I do like the idea that in tandem with the info you get in Covenant of Primus/The Exodus novel, that Orion Pax was the 13th Prime reborn as a Cybertronian, and Optimus Prime is Orion Pax but Orion Pax is not Optimus Prime. Even when he figures out something is wrong with Megatron, he doesn't miraculously regain his memories until Jack presents Vector Sigma, he just gets the vibe that he's being deceived. I like to believe part of this was perhaps the naivety of the 13th Prime hoping that Orion Pax, who had become his own person more or less, could perhaps live life normal again, and that Optimus Prime hadn't been solely a prophecy, but a fail-safe should anything untoward happen. For whatever reason, he just backed up a version of Orion Pax like Time Machine on a Mac juuuust before the biggest moment of his life. So you know, I would argue this was mainly clumsy and dramatic writing too LOL

Hot Rod was the “chosen one”. The Autobot that the prophecy spoke of that would “rise from our ranks and light our darkest hour”. Wish we had him in real life.

I mean, you'd think he would since that's how it works for everyone else, but Optimus is special I guess.

Because.... Transformers cartoon was inconsistent AF 😁😂

Prime says it in the G1 movie when he gives the matrix to Magnus. The leaders are keepers of the matrix until the chosen one comes along to use its power to destroy Unicron. Prime and Magnus are just storage receptacles, reinforced by the power of the Matrix and able to jack into its ROM and read the data it’s collected from other Primes, but Rodimus is the one that really accesses the power of the matrix, hence the transformation

I know this sounds stupid but ty for calling him Captain Marvel not Shazam

Orion Pax was "totalled" and had to be rebuilt. Orion Pax got deaded like brawn or Prowl in the movie

The matrix gave hot rod his Rodimus Prime body. Orion Pax was already built into Optimus Prime then given the matrix.

Could be interesting if Orion and Optimus were separated. Course, it's been awhile since I've checked out any Transformers stuff. So this was very interesting to watch.

Bro it's like 2 in the morning and I'm watching Transformer facts

Alphia Trion rebuilt Orion Pax from the ground up into Optimus Prime. It wasn't passed to him since he was basically "dead" at the time he was rebuilt, so there was never a Matrix-based transformation involved in his becoming a Prime.

optimus prime was rebuilt so he cant change into orion pax

This did happen in Transformers Prime but the reason is that after Megatron killed Orion at the depot, he was rebuilt into Optimus Prime and the matrix just gave him the title.

That explains when Alpha Trion rebuilt Optimus Prime didn't change back to Orion Pax, but Hot Rod was transform by the the matrix and he becomes Rodimus Prime.

It also bears remembering that the episode showing Orion Pax being turned into Optimus Prime was made before the movie, and it was in the movie the matrix was introduced.

Yes early squad

Optimus does die a lot and takes plenty butt whoppings but he’s always back standing strong 😂