Higher superstructure does not equate to higher centre of gravity. It depends where the weight is located. However, it does equate to angular motion being greater the further from the CoG.
True but the higher you go the higher the impact that even light weight has to initiate rolling forces. Height will always work against the centre of gravity and while you can offset this with more weight low down you are also creating a pendulum effect, any one on a yacht with a bulb keel in the rolling sea will understand how uncomfortable this is which then creates a bigger reliance on stabilizers etc.
@@markcarleton7809 Nordhavn boats typically have 10 % of its weight in ballast, and since the Fleming are semidisplacement boats, the Nordhavns could possibly have a lower centre of gravity than the Fleming.
I did the Great Loop on a 55 Fleming. Bought the boat used through Marine Max because they had the listing. I do wish I would have bought it through Burr Yacht sales. Boat survey was done by a guy not a Fleming guy, big mistake. After 3 years we sold the boat through Burr yacht sales. There local Stuart survey people know the boats and what to look for on used Flemings. They found stuff that I did not know and should have been caught on my purchase survey. My wife was very mad about how much money I spent on that boat. Well when we crossed the Albemarie Sound on a rough day, she said she was so happy we were in a Fleming. The 2 other looper boats we crossed with suffered some damage of contents flying around we had nothing even move. The boarding doors are just great, they are much lower to get on and off the boat, plus the gate by the pilot house for higher docks. The draft works for the loop. If I was buying a new unit it would be a 58 with mid master cabin. Today our year model 55 are selling for 300,000 more than what we sold her for they really hold there value.
Name the “few” that have fallen apart. Duel vs single is the owners choice, not a manufacturers mandate, there is a huge difference between a Fleming 65 and a Nordhavn 68, they are not even close. If your “Monster Mermaid” is actually “Mermaid Monster” they don’t have a 65 foot Flemming, they have a Nordhavn N55. The N68 is 2 feet wider, 100,000 lbs heavier than the Flemming 65. Nordhavn took their smallest boat on a round the world and set a record doing it. There is no Mr Nordhavn, there are 3 owners that all work every day for the company. While Flemming has a few models, Nordhavn has made over 500 boats, I could go on and on with your inaccuracy but at 9:30 into your video, I realized you have virtually no fist hand knowledge and are wasting my time and worse, mis informing people. They are both excellent manufactures but your comparison is inaccurate and misleading.
I had the pleasure of meeting Tony Fleming on Venture 1 last summer Friend of a friend deal Spent 11/2 days in a anchorage east of Campbell River BC Canada Fascinating individual Tony noticed I was not as involved in the cocktail conversation but was more interested in looking at the round cornered hatches andother fine finish details He ended up giving me a personal tour of the boat with emphasis on the special engineering and attention to detail 2nd to none Enjoy your videos thank you for your interesting viewpoint Dan Salazar PS Starting the loop first quarter of next year in a modified 251wa Proline. Wish me luck
Boat over thirty years, progressively larger boats. Been on both, bought a Nordhavn. Two key reasons for not getting a Fleming, depreciation & master in the bow. First depreciation, two boats six years apart & $900k difference in price. Why? Was told technology was more advanced in the newer boat. Great, so one can expect their boat to depreciate $125k/year, pretty extreme. Second, the forward master that you could listen to the chine slap all night long at anchor, no thx. IMO, get a Fleming if your boating plans are faster than 8 knots, skinny water, & short bridges, otherwise get a Nordhavn.
I agree with your statement, expect master in the front, I have and live on one with master up front, I actually like the noise, on hook or in the slip. 👍🏻❤️😂😆 Thanks for your comment I appreciate it.
Thank you for the informative discussion, granted your opinions and observations. I was not a fan of Nordhavn until I met Yacht Tech of North Palm Beach. Got a 57 then a 63 (a problem with buying one, you always want a bigger one). Flaming, Marlow, or Kadey Krogen, are coastal cruisers. Next, I want a Bering (steel hull, dual engines)
Tidal passes in the PNW have to be timed perfectly in many cases. Getting up at 4:00 AM to get underway because you can only go 8 kts is pretty much considered “roughing it” for us. And, running into deadheads and logs in the dark is a real thing. A Fleming’s ability to travel at higher speeds, despite the added fuel burn, allows for sleeping in a bit longer - which is much appreciated by my wife. More daylight options for cruising, better rest, more safety. Fleming all the way.
Nordhavn for what those boats are mostly used for, and that is not speed or even motoring. They are mostly stationary! Thats why you want headroom and space. More used boats on the market… really depends on typ of buyers I guess. The richer ones buy NH new and can afford to sell? Better bargains there to make. And wether the owner uses his own boats to improve… I think it doesn’t matter much for larger builders, for better quality it will be more important to have a good CEO, good climate and motivated staff, using customer feedback.
I think your reasons are pretty specious. Speed yes can be useful at times. However you can’t compare the relative heights as a full displacement hull is much heavier with plenty of mass low down. Marketing and whose name on the boat, who cares. Also a nordhavn 40 has gone around the world which is pretty impressive. I don’t have a trawler but I find both brands interesting and quality. The biggest downside to the Fleming for serious passage making to my eyes is the lack of more space and full height in the engine room for checks underway.
Flemming is a much more attractive boat over the chunky Nordhavn. There is a large choice of trawlers brands and hull types for costal cruising and hops to the Bahamas and such. Katy-Krogen and Nordhavn have demonstrated their abilities to cross oceans with much media coverage on their ocean crossing owners group cruise a few years ago. I do like the Nordhavn mechanicals with the large maintenance space that you can stand up in. Not being an owner myself I do enjoy all the youtube videos from owners, factory sponsors ,brokers, Jeff Merrill is a favorite trawler specialist and from you and others who share their boating knowledge with educational videos.-+
Thanks, and yes it’s a huge negative for the Fleming, but I have walked there engine rooms and there not bad. But your not standing up. But everything is very serviceable, and they pride themselves about that. 👍🏻❤️🙏😉
Fleming VS Nordhavn is a apples to oranges comparison, heck it's an apples to peanut comparison. You should do more research before you make a video about the 2 brands.
I agree with all of your points. I am not a boat owner but grew up around both the Willard 36 and Sea Ranger 55 and the contrast is similar. I also feel the Fleming is a better choice.
I'm really starting to look forward to these Wednesday video's where you just take the time to talk about boats. You're subs seem to be increasing also. As far as the Nordhaven vs. Fleming and not really knowing much about either I prefer the Fleming just on style. I've been spending most of my time researching the Sabre vs Eastbay topic or at least something similar. I also prefer twin engines.
Might add Sirena 68 to your list. Fast trawler with twin 1000hp, 1300-1400 gallons of fuel. High quality, Turkish built. Lots of value for the money. 2/3 ish cost of Fleming 65.
Right up front, I do not own a boat but am looking. Speed is an interesting subject, however so is displacement. I’m leaning toward full displacement as Alaska and the Pacific NW is my preferred playground which is a different environment than your in. Thus I’m leaning toward Nordhavn 63 or 64.
Speed is nice for lots of reasons, when your fighting current in and out of the inlets is also important factor for you guys. When on the East coast for me it was difficult to get in a few times and wish I had more power. 👍🏻❤️🙏😉
Heaps on Nordhavns doing world trips. Also Nordhavn deliverys. Nordhavn owner joins the delivery. Nordhavn has the world record for the most boats crossing some ocean.
Initially I prefered the Nordhavn, but after extensive video research my preference is now Fleming. The engine rooms layout, the boat finishes, and layout throughout the boat were key to my decision.
Let me add my observations as why Fleming is my choice also. First the on the deck open in ward thus preventing doors busting off when the boat rocks whiled tied to a fixed dock. Second, the "Aqua Drive " that allows softer engine mounts which reduces vibration being transmitted top the spars. Ease of handling docking when faced a cross wind.. Less sensitive to current because of smaller draft. Nordhavn workmanship is in my lacks corrective action despite years of experience, for example: headliner needs replacing every few years; why hasn't this been corrected. So I agree with you on your choice
Your right about that headline, I don’t understand it as well. But my next one will be faster then my current boat which I love. So for me I feel the need for speed.
I’ve always been a Nord fan. But I watch the Tony Fleming videos all the time. I think I am becoming a convert and believe that the Fleming would be a more comfortable ride
I'm not anything yet but a viewer; to me the Nord plows nose down like an old cow. So yes I like the Fleming and what Tony does. Bering makes a good boat but again it does look top heavy to me. As a little guy I might start with a Kadey-Krogan 58 they just look good to me all the way around. Like the hull shape and the pilot house which is correct IMO.
Fleming every time. Nordhavn are hugely overrated. Fleming are all about the customer but the used market tells the story. People hold onto Flemings whereas used Nordhavns are everywhere
You see them everywhere , that’s because they are not dock queen boats. They are out on the oceans and waterways giving thier owners the safety and reliability they desired. Like all things each boat Is different. Nordhavn know who they sell too.
Nordhaven continues to stay with the POS Luger engines. Hard to find a decent mechanic for them. Parts are hard to find. The MAN diesels are literally bullet proof. Easy to work on and you can reliably use after market parts if need be. I have a Fleming 58. I primarily bought it because of the mid-ship master. But your point about speed was right on target. In 1922 I had to leave my boat in Bermuda to fly to England for Queen Elizebeth’s funeral. When I returned to Bermuda there was a hurricane coming towards it. I had to make a high speed run to the US. I sucked down the fuel, but I made it safely to Morehead City NC and a protected anchorage. Could not have down that in a Nordhaven. I’ve been around boats for almost 40 years and for me, a Fleming cannot be beat. The buying process was great. I was kept informed at every step of the construction process. I even was able to fly to Taiwan for the last few seasons trials before she was put on a ship to the US. Then the staff at Burr Yachts went the extra mile getting her prepped for delivery and making sure they went over each and every system with me and insured I was qualified to take possession of her.
If I had access to 2 or 3 million for a boat, I think I would just go with a custom build, that way you get everything the exact way you want it, layout, room size, galley size, mechanical systems, beam, storage, etc
I am NOT a boater but have watched all of Fleming's videos on his trip in Venture and Venture II. Iy seems to me that he isn't so much interested in pumping out boats than he is in making the best boat. The fact that he takes his boat all over the world testing it and its components says a lot. If I were in a financial position to afford one, I'd be on the list today. That said, I know nothing about the competition at all so I'm biased towards what I have seen.
Every video I watch of a Nordhavn in rough seas shows the boat going UP and DOWN from bow to stern quite a LOT! whereas the Fleming seems to ride a lot more flat.
That’s because of the speed, when your in rougher stuff in our slow boats we power up and it helps smooth out the ride, on the Nordhavn there is no more speed, so it is what it is. They do ride nice but nothing good when it’s real snotty out there. Thanks you
Understood. Thank you for this explanation. SPEED is a huge asset in most scenarios: driving a vehicle on the highway and boating certainly come to mind. There are times on the highway when we don't like the collection of vehicles in our proximity. Thankfully, we have a vehicle that allows us to put the pedal down and take off. We can achieve separation from the pack in seconds and find clean air to drive by ourselves. On the water, out running a storm is always preferrable to riding it out. Getting to shore fast when an unplanned need arises is essential.
A view from the UK. Good question, for me, neither without significant input into the layout of their respective interiors. There is this fixation on, not just these two but with all "trawler" type boats, using forests' of wood in them. It's like sitting in Grandmas wardrobe. They seem to use more wood than actual sailing yachts. They use fast food "Banquettes! for seating too. Hopefully, I am sure they will allow you to bespoke during build.
Good afternoon I just subscribed to your channel. Enjoyed the first video Nordhaven versus Fleming. My wife and I have been looking at boats for almost a year now, we have flown to Florida looked at the Marlow‘s flown to Maryland looked at the fleming 65. I have been to the shows and looked at several other boats would be curious why you don’t add Marlow in with a fleming?
Nordhavn has redone almost all the models besides the 63. All of them can come with twins and updated electronics, electrical systems and CFD (computation fluid dynamics) hull design they are now quieter and more fuel efficient with a fresh updated look.
I looked at the Selene video Aquahaulic made of a 55. My personal taste is to have the height and headroom for lots of reasons. I cannot imagine doing a fuel filter and oil change underway in that engine room. 😂. Just think of all the extra storage you gain to hang things and stack supplies. With the new CFD design to increase stability along with a lower coefficient has been improved a lot. I think in the long run, for me, the extra height makes a big difference for visibility. The views from a higher fly bridge especially when in shallow blue waters and for photos makes up for the difference. I hope you guys can build the boat of your dreams! Looking forward to seeing what you decide on.
Thank you for the detailed report. I remember Thrifty Mart. There ice cream cones were the best. I think the cost was a nickel. Don’t really remember. 😅
Fleming for sure if I had the money. Grew up on the water in Norfolk VA still young at 46 I’m really into the more classic rugged look. I don’t really like the modern boat look looks cheap to me.
If your sole purpose is to cross oceans, then the Nordhavn is the one for you. If you want the ability to go on day trips and do some longer cruises (see Tony Fleming's videos) and maybe cross the Atlantic by the Viking route go with the Fleming. Here, on the south coast of England, you could wake up one Sunday morning and decide to go on a day trip to the Channel Islands, not something you'd want to do in a Nordhavn. Conversely, you could plan a longer trip to Norway or to the Mediterranean and do it at 10 knots. It's just a personal opinion but I'd go with the Fleming every time. Interesting videos, thank you for doing them.
I think most people go for the Nordhaven for their misconception of them being economical. A Flemming 58 is more economical than a Nord 60 at the same speed of 8 knots. Go nine or ten and the Flemming becomes more economical. The Flemming is quieter and rides much better into a head sea. And it has the ability to outrun a storm, or at least get you closer to a safe harbor. Not that the Nord wont be able to handle a large storm. But it wont be comfortable.
I have to agree with you on this one. I think in a lot of cases the Fleming is the better choice, but they think the Nordhavn is the better boat, it’s not true at all. 👋 thank you for the watch.
Nordhavn has made over 600 boats. Fleming is just over 300 boats. Why do you think that is ? Mermaid monster is a NH 55 ... Flemings are semi displacement hulls not full displacement as most NH. Both boats are beautiful and will serve you well. Why design flaws are you referring to in your post? you say the words but you don't decribe the flaws? Single engine isn't a design flaw Btw:
Your right it’s not a design flaw, I don’t know the whole story but one of there bigger ones got in trouble recently, I was told it was a bad design, but I believe it was one of the 120’ and they were dragging a boat behind. 👍🏻❤️🙏😉
@@NoRegretsLifestyle this was vivierae, a n96. had nothing to do with any design flaw. one prop got fouled from a fishing net. the tow line broke and fouled the other. all in a bad storm. they left the boat anchored until the storm passed when they could return, safely dive the boat and clear the props.
If you’re going to comment on others make sure you know what you’re talking about… You mentioned the RU-vid channel mermaid monster, called them monster mermaid and said they were on a Fleming.(although I do believe you knew and meant to say nordhaven) -however, it’s rare for Brooke to leave for a passage. Every once in a while she does for a long passage, but it’s normally for another reason. She was pregnant for a while… They also have a twin screw… Think there was another couple wrong comments on this subject, but not going to go back and watch again. I do like some of your content, although wish youd show more videos of passages, checking boats out, and more brokerage duties. Especially rather than you just talking into the camera for a whole episode. You can take that input with a grain of salt, but I’d ask other what they want to see in an effort to gain more views. Just a thought. Thanks for the vids. One last thing, how do you think GB’s stack up to Flemming’s and Nords?
Grand Banks makes a really good hull, it always amazes me how you can buff out one of the older ones. I don’t like the 42 trunk style trawler but just my opinion. Like you said I don’t watch many of there videos anymore, but on the longer crossings she is usually not on the boat, and I don’t blame her, it’s no fun out there in bigger water in any boat. 👍🏻🙏❤️😉
I haven't been on a Nordhaven but I've spent time on a Flemming and a Mikelson 62 Nomad and I preferred the Nomad's design and speed with 14 knot cruise and 22 knot high speed with 600hp Cats on the one I was on. I don't know how they are on long sea passages though because my trips were all offshore.
1. You are correct that there is no “Mr Nordhavn”. Dan Streech is CEO and I believe he and James Leishman were the founders. 2. They did take a Nordhavn 40 around the world and set some sort of record years ago. They changed crews at several places but the boat made it. 3. I find Nordhavn to be butt ugly and I am not a huge fan of the interior lay outs. To each their own.
A vessel with a low centre of gravity will roll faster than a vessel with a high centre of gravity. This is because the righting lever in a low centre of gravity has greater length and will whip the boat upright at greater speed. If you don't have proper knowledge of marine stability please don't start telling people simple untruths. Sorry to be so critical, just ask a naval architect to explain it to you. I am a former Class Surveyor for two of the worlds largest Class Insurance Societies. PS Retired some 15 years
Two completely different boats. The Nordhavn is more like your house on the water. With the owner performing the mechanical maintenance. The Fleming is like your summer home, with the owner passing on the maintenance to a contractor. Not saying either is better. Just suited for different captains.
I lost confidence in the entire video when you mis-pronounced Nordhavn. Other commenters confirmed my suspicions. "They've had a few of them fall apart"? Would you care to back this claim with facts? And as other commenters have said, dual engine vs single is not the builder's choice, it is the owner's choice. Many N models can be configured as single or dual engine and many owners choose dual. However there is nothing in N's build history to suggest their single engine design is a "mistake". That is a preposterous suggestion. You also failed to mention that single engine N's have a second engine, the "wing engine" or "get home engine", which is a fully independent propulsions system. So your basic thesis here seems to boil down to "I like Flemming because I don't know anything about Nordhavn", which you pretty much stated around 3/4 of the way through the talk.
Not really the in depth compariosn video i expected fro the title but hey we cant all be film makers !! next time a decent walk around of both boats would be useful pointing out the strengths and weakness of both brands ?
@@NoRegretsLifestyle I have been on a couple smaller Cats (fishing boats), never been out on a larger Cruising Cat. Been out on larger (45'+) yachts in not Rough rough conditions but enough to be sporty. Cruised along at 7-10 knots, pitch'n and roll'n pretty good and got passed by a 40 something foot Cat Cruiser. I don't remember the brand it was but they seemed to be enjoying a much better ride than we were.
No sir, was not fortunate enough for that. I will talk about it at some point. But you can’t work for every dollar you earn, you have to have money working for you and a little luck LOL, but we create are own luck right👍🏻🙏😂❤️😉
You are comparing two boats made for different purposes and it seems your purpose is in line with Fleming, so very biased. And your video is full of non correct information as mentioned by others here.
Nordhavn hit a home run with their new N41. It has twin fully mechanical diesels. It is low profile with cable throttles. It’s a couples boat with room for two grandkids to visit. It will do the loop. Now if only I could afford one. I like the Nordhavn 47 because it has a master cabin with an inline bed. The Nordhavn CP 59 (coastal pilot) might be a contender for a Fleming ; as you describe them.
That is because it is a full displacement boat. Whether they used a single, twin, or 6 engines, max speed would be about the same. Fleming’s are a semi displacement boat.
@@lardal1502 agreed. The only one in their lineup that is not full displacement and not capable of the long ranges of other Nordhavns. A good boat but not a competitor to Fleming or other LR Trawwlers.
The Nordhavn you reference was Vivie Rae, a 96’ Nordhavn. It’s props got fouled by a rope in rough weather. Nothing to do with the boat. Lots of articles and vlogs out there.
Nordhavn delivers their boats 80% done. Thats my biggest complaint. The high center of gravity being my second biggest complaint. I don’t care about the walk in engine room when ride is the advantage. Fleming all the way when comparing the two.
