Wolff Responds: Why Amazon Unionization Failed in Alabama 

Correct! I don't blame the people. Many like us who know find it hard to understand those who don't know they don't know. Some people just are not interested in these conversations and the left NEEDS to learn how to speak to them. We also need to understand all the tactics influencing their thoughts to have a counter. Oftentimes; we just depend on righteous indignation to take us over the finish line but that's not how the average person operates or thinks. Most people are like Joe Rogan; if they care a little and less than half of his curiosity if they don't care. For most people, life is work, lunch, breaks and then, make it home to, at least, watch a good tv show after tending to family. Many don't even know who Richard Wolff is.

@@robertnicholls9917 That's the problem. Nobody blames the people, but it's the people that vote, the people that refuse to disempower those working against us all, the people that buy in to the messaging designed to keep us all down, and the people that refuse to see what's obvious around us all. We don't live in a world of superheroes and nobody's going to ride on a white charger and save us. The people may be too apathetic to initiate a solution on our own, but until the people wise up and decide to work together to take care of our problems, no solution will ultimately prevail.

@@alanfriesen9837 I agree but those forces work overtime to keep people misinformed. The left needs to stop pretending we don't need an answer against that. Our enemies use every trick in the book, which we can mostly predict but never have a counter to their tactics. The people don't know what they don't know and we can't assume they will make an effort. The left needs to start dealing with the realities of the resources our enemies contribute to keep society favoring them.

I concur. Great comment.

@@robertnicholls9917 I agree that we need to come up with an answer. And maybe in a world where the people have the ultimate power, challenging our past competence is a non-starter. It just seems so disingenuous to constantly be coddling the people by telling us that the crap sandwich that we complacently watched being built around us is entirely not our fault. We are victims because we failed to think, discern, and act. When a ruler spends all of his energy searching for others to blame his failures on, his reign is in jeopardy. This is a democracy; the people are that ruler. We can choose to rule, or we can listen to those who tell us that they'll take care of that for us and we can go back to reading poetry and enjoying our harem. History isn't kind to the latter.

✊🏻. UNION ! ✊🏻

Collège educated you --- tell your greed driven middle-class to stop functioning as slave-drivers for the rich.

I'm

Preferably heavily armed and with extreme violence.

To unionise, they had two choices- form their own union from scratch or join an existing union that already has a proven track record. Why did they not do the latter? Was it legislation, distrust, or desire to create their own hierarchy? Workers won't sign up to pay their dues to some outfit that may or may not benefit them but probably will amply reward the union's proponents and organisers.

Seems to be a trend now bring our hopes up then knocking them down like a bowling bowl knocking out pins one at a time

It's hard to fight back or have solidarity when the #onlinemonetizedleft is too busy whining about neo-Nazis being mistreated on the internet to discuss issues.

As Richard Wolff said, unions to be strong, have to have a radical left movement behind them. Communists did that job here until the 1950s Red Scare.

Was it Dumbing Us Down, by John Taylor Gatto?

It's too bad but the elites have succeded in dumbing down the US masses over the last four decades. We are toast.

@@kkay3784 The experience of reading those "Dumbing Down" books is a dumbing down characteristic of books written by right-leaning libertarians with the result of obfuscating a genuine social issue. Read critically. ⚠

The problem with all human organizations of any sort is there are always bullies who always want to puff themselves up at the cost of others. Care for others is not a natural part of our heritage. Being manipulative is a natural part.

@@juligrlee556 That's just wrong. We are a HIGHLY social species by nature, looking out for one another is how we survived for millions of years before we had civilisation.

@@zixx844 Greed and selfishness are not only going to doom the humites, but most of the animals on the planet. I wouldn't bet that the humites last another 100 years.

Co-operatives generally exist for the benefit of customers or suppliers, not employees. It's up to those suppliers or customers to front up with capital and put in more capital or retained profits as required. How do you propose worker co-ops be capitalised?

Unionized worker-owned cooperatives rooted in solidarity, non-hierarchy, cooperation and mutual aid - let’s go !

Bezos kicked his feet up on his desk, and lit a cigar today!

@@kenny8351 You guys will get him soon enough, long process ahead but it's doable

I wrote a post saying same thing. Glad we agree. The unionization efforts need to be national and be executed all at once.

@@biggiescooby5836 Yup! Keep them guessing. Learn from this and try again.

Exactly. Start someplace where people are more progressive and pro union and educated about them... then once it passes ppl in the south and small towns will see with their own eyes the material shift and begin to consume media that contradicts their ideology... hell even here in Ohio which is pretty ..... similar... in big metro cities like cincy where I live we are far more progressive and having a lot of unions and mutual aid organizing etc in addition to a relatively leftist state university (I went to UC got a BS in stem and MSW and obviously the latter program was extremely leftist and pro union but even for my undergrad the ideology was very progressive and different than how it was in HS. So if for example this city tried they would probably be successful and given their tristate zoning they would spread the truth to Indiana and Kentucky in addition to the rest of Ohio. So anyone reading this who works at Amazon and has the safety net to possibly lose your job like the one guy who sparked things in AL.. start organizing! Contact other unions for advice, workers rights movements both in your area or online, reach out to your local university’s social work program or if they have a specific program for org leadership, nonprofits, and Human Resources then try them. Focus on debunking the idea fhay if just destroys your paycheck... explain you will vote and discuss as a union and ensure everyone has a living wage in addition to more benefits and security and better work life balance. Hell it could even lead to higher min wage and more commitment to growth and mobility in the company so many might make more money than they did anyways and with a company as bid as Amazon with so many workers the “union tax” wouldn’t not be very high and wouldn’t matter if it leads to ppl being able to make more money or make the same amount for less time on the clock (paid vacations, more salary positions, adding omission to certain jobs and removing pressures and exploitative quotas). I have tried to help Amazon workers organize here in cincy and even came close but it’s not gonna work if a bunch of ppl from outside the company initiate it. It has to start with you, and you can utilize people like me or aforementioned agencies as resources once you begin to organize

Alliances. Doe!

That's where Amazon can work its smoke and mirrors. They'll 'say' they offer minimum wage and healthcare, but it usually doesn't translate to what workers want and ultimately protection from things like at will firing as well as a political consciousness that translates to changes at the ballot box will not come from what Amazon offers.

Correct! Many unions have become just as corporate and corrupt. Modern unions should look like the Teachers Union and the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA. Sara Nelson is the future model for modern unions. People like Trumka remind me of Manchin. They would gladly destroy the environment for a couple jobs. Trumka was actually pushing for the Keystone Pipeline. These are the type of corporate unions that need to go. Oftentimes, they make deals to benefit a small inner circle and not workers.

@@robertnicholls9917 Unfortunately you are 100%

Thanks for sharing your story. It’s between rock and hard spot as they say. That’s why while unions are important, they aren’t the be all end all as they are only reformatory a. They need to be eventually connected to be socialist/communist movement as Lenin and Red Rosa argued.

SEIU is not a class struggle union, they are a business union that is in bed with the capitalist class.

@@luciennoxisou9502 Now they tell us.

With you all the way!!

My dad was a miner in Sudbury back in the 60s. Ontario is like Texas in Canada. Right wing and anti worker. I hated Sudbury and will Never Return.

In Sudbury Ontario its more left wing today Liberal NDP. Progressive Conservatives Right Wing haven’t won Sudbury in over 40 years.

Amazon did a _lot_ of fuckery to sway the result, some of which seems borderline illegal, so yeah...

What was the vote tally? Was the vote to unionize even somewhat close?

As Prof Wolff says, there is so much ignorance about unions after such a long absence (willfully orchestrated btw). And such uncertainty breeds fear, exacerbated by the such a long stagnation (equating to regression) and the current world wide health upheaval. It's normal that people hesitate to take chances when so much bad 'luck' has been their lot for so long. Let's hope this is like planting more seeds, or cuttings that can grow into plants even quicker.

The vote was 1800-740 against. The majority of workers clearly did not see the benefit to paying dues to a union. The government printed, mailed, and required all ballots to be mailed in to prevent both Amazon and the union from being able to tamper with the votes or identify how any particular worker voted.

actully the working class is not stupid... no matter what this 'prof' says.

@@ronnyron007 you would have to know the distinction between ignorance and stupidity to qualify that statement.

@@ronnyron007

No, not ignorance. Try fear. Need for income & housing & food and new shoes for kids’ growing feet..... it’s like the fight for civil rights, but now it’s workers rights. History has shown this fight has also been deadly.

@@YourMom-cu8yt I know the difference. The southern worker is neither ignorant nor stupid!

I think Game Over happened over 40 years ago, probably.

Looks like the problem is even union organizers are temporarily embarrassed millionaires like most of the US. The strength of capitalism doesn't rest on capitalists but the number of people who want to be the capitalists themselves.

There are endless ways discourage that

Mass immigration stops unions. Better put, mass immigration stops the benefits of a union. There is no point in having a union with mass immigration. You can easily replace union workers with a large surplus of foreign workers.

@@AmericanTestConstitution I'm not sure how it works in the US but here in the UK you can't just simply replace a union worker for someone new without a good reason. Even if you try to desperately find a pretext to fire him like low performance, being late on few occasions, etc., the guy can appeal to the the union and they sort it out for him. It usually ends in a deadlock. It's better for the employer not to go into that deadlock in the first place. Now that's a situation that you guys need to create in the US, and that's just the bare minimum, the starting point. What you've described is exactly what happens in workplaces that have no unions. Don't like it here? Off you go son, we have new desperate workers coming in ready to work the minimum wage like it's the end of the world. Can you blame migrants themselves? I don't think so.

@@AmericanTestConstitution no it doesn't. That's an absurd denial of reality.

@@dynamicworlds1 "that's an absurd denial of reality". What are you, a 7 year old who got offended because you don't understand the law of supply and demand.

I don't understand why people struggle to create new answers for questions that have been settled again and again. The writings are out there for free.

@@boskor777 Because many Americans are half-literate thanks to piss-poor education system, and those of us who can read Marx quickly and easily don't do a good enough job of disseminating his ideas to the masses. We cannot depend on people to go read all three volumes of Capital on their own and expect the revolution to get anywhere fast.

As per the World Socialist Website.

Capital and labour are both cheap. The world in balance?

Not that their troubles would've stopped if a union had formed in such a way. Amazon would've kept fighting them and undermining them and infiltrating them constantly.

No, and no. Study the changes to employment worldwide. The trend of losing unions and their membership, while increasing the use of individual employment contracts and evolving better employment law is a common thread through many countries. The US has robust employment law- I only used US trained/experienced employment lawyers in the countries I worked. You have to ask why American workers often don't assert their legal rights. I think it's partly lack of money and resolve, partly a huge pool of informal migrant labour.

@@dagsmoko3889 probably also simply not being aware of the laws at all to begin with. Like so many things, until it’s a problem, we don’t even know it’s there... and then it’s usually too late.

@@spanosspanos True, educating workers about their rights and responsibilities is important, especially for the ones new to the workforce.

Leaning left is toxic for unions worldwide. That's why they are being replaced by legislated employment law and individual contracts. Unions don't get traction pushing for strong employment law if they are aligned to a party as they will struggle to get support in even half the house. They become a thing of the past.

The organisers failed to convince the workers, yet again. To unionise, they had two choices- form their union from scratch or join an existing union that already has a proven track record. Why did they not do the latter? Was it legislation, distrust, or desire to create their own hierarchy? Workers won't sign up to pay their dues to some outfit that may or may not benefit them but probably will amply reward the union's proponents and organisers.

The same Alabama where the Black Panther Party started, mine workers shot their bosses, with 3/4 of it's largest cities being majority African American, including where this vote took place. What are you trying to say, exactly? The state is under the complete control of a handful of families that have reigned for hundreds of years in some areas. The masses have reactionary and backwards thinking sometimes as a result of their historical and material conditions and require a proper education and programme, that's kind of a basic tenet of revolutionary theory, isn't it?

@@boskor777 i agree with you . 100% as a matter of fact ( the second paragraph) . i wasn’t saying that with a berating intention. as i myself is in the (Deep) south . ,thank u for taking the time to elaborate . and yes it’s actually backward thinking. its being afraid of the ( higher controlling power) . the voting had some vibes of 3rd world dictatorship voting . i once heard the declaration of the win the late ( Hafez al asad) of syria had once : it was : 99.998% no kidding . we both know this is not a real result , and second the ballots were basically how many (yeses) you’re expected to give the supreme leader , one yes is not enough ...it had to be two . cheers

Amazon needs to put locations in every state to do business in every state.

50 years of propaganda is hard to overcome. left politics aren't for you if you cant take some L's. That said, I agree 100%

@@kevingarlick4617 well put.

not to mention Frankfurt School. this is so nice to see, Prof Wolff. Its sad that some people call you a class/material reductionist