It amazes me how she gets a phone call that her house is sold but doesn’t get a phone call saying that her house is in foreclosure and she’s being sued
@@Blighted_Ashes Especially since, if a bank forclosed on your home due to not paying a lien, they'd have to pay you the difference. If, for example, you only had one payment left to make and you just didn't pay it and so sold your house for $200k and you only owed them $1k the bank wouldn't get to keep that other $199k. Although on that point I think they should be required to sell at fair market value because what's to stop them from selling it to a friend of theirs for $1k leaving you with nothing? That kind of thing actually happens which is one of the things driving HOA fraud.
We need to pass laws that prevent selling of houses when HOA fees are less than a significant percentage of the house's value. The idea that you can sell a house because there are a few hundred dollars in fees pending is INSANE.
Im a powersports mechanic that owns a shop. I cannot even start lein sale paperwork unless the money owed to me is a certain percentage of the value of the vehicle
My problem here is this, she's lived there for 12 years, but only has 10 years of missed HOA fees. That tells me she was never actually a part of the HOA to begin with, and that the HOA was established after she bought the house. Wouldn't that mean that the HOA was committing fraud?
My problem is when you purchase a home that is part of a HOA, that is very clearly defined in the purchase agreement that it is part of a HOA. Some states even have a separate document you sign acknowledging that you know the home is under a HOA. I feel this homeowner was just ignoring the fees and throwing out all the mail related to it. This is why being served in person is so important for lawsuits, so they know 'hey this is really serious'.
Not necessarily. Quite often a developer looking into building a development will buy up any nearby for-sale houses, attach something to the deed that says "if such-and-such development creates a HoA then this property is part of said HoA," and then sell it again. Several years later that development gets built and a HoA is formed and boom, that original property is now part of a HoA.
Being from Australia where HOAs just don't exist, the purpose of them is a real head scratcher. They seem to do nothing to actually help the home owners paying the fees. Here, if you are in an apartment or town house, you pay body corporate fees. This covers maintenance of common areas and facilities. If you have a free standing house on a privately owned block of land, the only people who can tell you what you can and can't do is the local council and you pay rates to them. The council provides services to the community such as public parks, maintains local roads, and so on. There is no middle-man with their grubby hands reaching into your pocket.
If only we had the ability to do so. People are lucky to even find a house they can afford, and pay equity to themselves, much less be picky at an HOA. A lot of places are so overrun with them, you pretty much have no choice.
I can't remember the last time I saw a new subdivision, condo or townhouse complex built without one... that would be way back in the 70's. edit: (in CA or AZ)
@@AB-vc7ox “in the most liberal states of the US where they vote statewide to control your everyday activities, its almost unheard of that there isnt a very local governing body to tell u what to do in property u bought and paid for”.
This is exactly why I refused to buy a house within an HOA. This is ridiculous and how did we let these organizations get more power than the homeowner?
If most people refused to buy homes under HOA jurisdiction, then HOAs would not have this kind of power. However, most people won't deny themselves from meeting their immediate needs for the sake of principle. They buy homes for fear of rising prices and interest rates. They want to start families. They find their ideal home and can't pass up the opportunity. These are all reasons why HOAs can get away with their crimes, with full government support.
@@Ka_Gg "...people think they need a HOA to have a community." It's not only this. I've had several conversations with HOA members who were vehement that the HAO was doing a good thing by protecting their property values by restricting the rights and liberties of the collective property owners. Can you imagine the conceit of someone thinking they have some kind of right to control or limit what their neighbors do on their own property beyond the scope of the law?! In many cases you even need HOA approval and in same cases a local permit to change the COLOUR of your home! It's a slap in the face of all that makes America a great nation.
Avoiding something so basic for so long makes it reeeally hard to buy the notion that perverse incentives weren't the driving motivation from the outset.
I definitely wouldn't vacate the property, they can try to come and take it but it wouldn't be easy. That's straight up theft and aggressive violation of her rights
I always hate when I move into a new neighborhood and the local gang forgets to introduce themselves before getting mad that I haven't paid any protection money.
The people that bought the house, had a house on the line. The process server had $12.50 per hour on the line. Objectively…it’s fairly simple to see why one found her and one didn’t n
@@sendthis9480 the process server has no idea of the legal implications of serving the papers to the wrong person? Bad service might look like "Honest mistake" to a lay person, but is lying under oath in court.
If ts sold legally, I don't think a house should a target for small claims at all, then they auction the house, or sell, they need to hand over the proceeds. What I think happened here is someone in the hoa was in cahoots with the buyer. How can you sell a house to half its value? Seems suspicious to me.
The HOA should be sued for the full value of her house and a penalty. Since when do legal documents get served by the postal office and with no signature?? And shouldn't info on the HOA have been disclosed with the house sale documentation when she looked at buying or when she bought it? Very underhanded. Well covered...thank you.
@say_goodnight7342 Then it's gonna hard for these people to say they weren't served. Those types of officials are considered "trusted" (idk if that's the right word) and a court will take their word unless you can prove it isn't true
This one's a bit late, but I hope it helps. I live in a senior community that has many, many HOA's. Every deed to a hope has an attachment built into the deed that discloses the HOA name and contact information, along with a statement telling the buyer to contact their HOA. The HOA itself is defined within the community to perform certain functions such as supplying and paying for water, collection of trash and external maintenance to the grounds and building. They can place liens on the property for non-payment, but cannot seize the property and sell it to get their money (state law, I believe). Steve mentions using management companies instead of the local homeowner boards, and I think that a couple of our HOA's do that, but most do not. Disclosure of the HOA attachment to the property takes place at the time of sale, and the buyer must sign an agreement to be in the HOA and subject to its rules in our state. If an HOA is established in one of our areas not covered by one, it must canvass, notify and receive signed documents from the homeowner showing their awareness of the HOA and their obligation to abide by their rules. That's the way it should be done.
If she truly didn’t know there was an HOA then she should also sue the previous homeowner and the realtor that handled the sale to her for not disclosing pertinent information.
And that assumes she was actually part of the HOA. The house could be separate, but the HOA was just charging her because of the area or assumed area. I might have missed it, but he reads that she lived there for 12 years and has 10 years of missed dues. If accurate, she wasn't obligated to join two years after already being there.
I suspect it was outlined i the purchasing documents but overlooked. Buying a house can be an overwhelming thing for someone who has not been through that experience. The fact it wasn't brought up about if it was in the purchasing documents suggests it probably was. Still doesn't explain how it escalated to the point of her house being sold, a lean on the property would have been the reasonable solution. We almost didn't buy the current house were in because the original paperwork said it had an HOA. The real-estate agent dug in and found it had one that had been dissolved years before. We made sure the current paperwork indicated no HOA.
@@mrbyamile6973 our HOA will place a lien but will not foreclose on a house. My neighbor across the street was a chronic problem child. Things like parking their 40’ RV on the street (this was against city rules on top of HOA). They were nightmare neighbors and everyone was relieved when he moved. They split up (constant domestic disturbance police calls also). When he went to close on the sale they found a lien. The HOA had placed a lien for 3k on his house and he couldn’t sell it. He tried to get his neighbors to argue in his defense but everyone hated him so that didn’t happen! He had to pay the lien off and clear it before he could sell.
note to remember. if you a justly owed money...put a real estate lean on home...they cannot make payments....or collect rent..until you are paid in full..in most cases if it is a significant amount owed you..then you collect rent until paid in full..you can also do this too businesses ...
I'm convinced that some sleazy law offices intentionally make their mail look like junk mail just so that they can claim that they're notifying people about shit like this to screw them out of everything they own.
They do and it was almost made illegal in NJ to have “credit card” like legal mailers to defendants. It was passed but it was weaken a bit but legal mail looks a bit more official at least to my job when we get them.
Bingo ! You would be surprised how many mail carriers brother or sister just so happens to be a local property investors. Mail man know what's going to homeowners ect relaying info to brother or sister investors. Making a killing in auctions. All kinds of room for some dirty deeds.
Bingo ! You would be surprised how many mail carriers brother or sister just so happens to be a local property investors. Mail man know what's going to homeowners ect relaying info to brother or sister investors. Making a killing in auctions. All kinds of room for some dirty deeds.
Something similar happened to me. My house was on a parcel of farmland. and there was farmland that surrounded my property. A developer bought up all the farm land (Gave me an offer, I refused) and built all of these houses. 8 years later I come to find out, I'M in an HOA!!!!!!! I never opted in, I never approved it nor wanted it. But somehow some way this developer included my parcel into the HOA. Then they tried to forclose on for no payment of HOA fees. I went scorched earth and tried to find out WHO included my property in this HOA. Miraculously, the case against me was quietly dismissed. I'm so sick of corruption
I live across the street from an HOA. I'm not a member and never will be. Made sure before I even bought my house that it wasn't in the HOA. Still get letters from the HOA occasionally and I go to the office and inform them I'm not a member and they try to pass it off as a mistake every single time. Get looks from the busy bodies occasionally because I don't have to keep to their standards and I don't. I grow out a vegetable garden every year and they do not like that at all. If I want to park a boat or an RV in my driveway I can. Can plant flowers any color I want. If I wanted to paint my house neon orange I can. I still got my copies of the closing documents including where it says the property isn't a part of a HOA and title search from before I bought the house so I know for a fact my house isn't a member so they backed off after a while. HOAs are so power hungry that the thought of anyone living even across the street from them that isn't within their control bothers them.
It's not part of an HOA or even related to one but there is a house a few miles from me that is painted highlighter yellow with royal blue trim fugly as hell but its their place
I wonder if they are doing that to your non-HOA neighbors also! I'll bet that works on some people, and that's a stinking shame. I love your spirit! In your situation, I think I'd write the state attorney general, my congressperson, the county, everybody. Certified mail. I might also paint my house a rainbow of neon colors, and get some ugly statues. And paint them too. What do I care? They can see my house, but I can't when I'm inside watching RU-vid or out back in my vegetable garden!
HOA are a double edged sword. There job is to protect the neighborhood value like people making it look like an eye sore. If your making the neighborhood look like blight then your neighbors won't like you. would you like your neighbors to let their grass go uncut.
@@prioris55555 I'm in a medium sized town with farmland behind me and beside me and the HOA across from me. Doubt anything anyone could do would make any difference to my property value. I get along with my neighbors both of them farmers. Even get along with a lot of the residents of the HOA. What I don't get along with are the busy bodies that decided to move out the country and try to boss everyone around. If they wanted big city living then there are two of them within an hour and a half drive. If you let your grass go around here then that is what city code enforcement is for I see them driving around all the time making sure people aren't being stupid. If your grass gets unreasonably tall they will even send someone out to mow it for you and then charge you 100 bucks added to your water and garbage bill as a fine. Never happened to me but did happen to a guy I know who was out of town for a month or two a while back. But they wont give a shit if it goes a few weeks to a month without being mowed in the middle of summer when it is really hot. This area isn't a wealthy area it is a working middle class area. So there is no need for the busy bodies not to mind their own business. No white trash on my block with 15 rusted cars in their front yard and if there were I wouldn't care as long as they are quiet about it. Not planning on ever selling my place. It is paid for and I'm not buried in debt so I have no reason to worry about property value. Hell might even be better for me to have a lower property value so I don't have to pay as much in taxes every year.
I bought my house in 2020. When I was looking at houses, I told my realtor "absolutely no HOAs." Shortly after moving in, a neighbor from a few blocks over knocked on my door to "welcome me to the neighborhood" & let me know that the HOA fees were due the 1st... I laughed & she was adamant. I trespassed her from my property (got it on voice recording) & told her to pound sand. She came back later & was pestering my tenant (I rent a room out) & so I called the cops. They charged her with criminal trespass & fined her for her false HOA fee claims. I just found out that another neighbor had fallen for her scam & sued her after hearing about my story. There's a for sale sign in front of the 'HOA' lady's house now. ❤
I had a house stolen from my mother (in her mid 60's) which she owned for 30+ years and owed less than $20k remaining when her bank foreclosed on her and the bank never served her. When we went to court to vacate the judgement, the judge requested we post a bond for $150k which required us to actually give the bond writer $150k in cash plus their fee, which we didn't have. We also paid our lawyer $13k. In the end, the judge ruled that the burden of proof was on my mother to prove she wasn't served even though the service person who was a garbage man (not law enforcement) who did this as a side gig and he admitted in court to serving the wrong person at the wrong house. In the end, we were told an appeal would be another $50k to $80k in legal fees, which we didn't have. In the end, my mother was unable to continue the fight for her home and I learned that the legal system is purposely structured to screw you over when you don't have money. Total scam.
If your house is not in a HOA, and the neighborhood wants to form one, they CANNOT force you to sign up. They have NO POWER over you if you do not sign up, no matter how many threats to fine you they send
@@VirtualBilly How do you prove a negative? If you can provide one, just one, state-level law þat can force someone to join an HOA, you will have carried your burden of proof.
Some 30+ years ago a friend of mine sold a large chunk of his property to a developer, who put in a subdivision. My friend had taken it upon himself to go to Europe and visit family, and was there for almost two years. No problem, taxes and bills got paid, mail got checked, having good friends helps. Well, he comes back, all goes fine for a number of years until something very similar to what this woman had happen happened to him. Turned out the HOA that was created for the neighboring subdivision also included his farm, without telling him about it. Well, his lawyer stepped in and a few heads rolled. It was an attempt by the developer to try to get the rest of the farm. Which failed miserably. Thank God for good lawyers! It is amazing the lengths people will go to so they can get a choice property.
This is not the worst of it. I have read a story of an HOA selling a house that was not even in the HOA. They did it while the owner was on vacation. As you might expect, this HOA lost big time and had to pay a bunch of money and give the home back. In another case, the HOA had a person's truck(who also was not in the HOA) hauled to storage. The truck owner charged them with theft(which is what it actually was) and won. I am glad I do not have an HOA.
I lived in a neighborhood where the HOA demanded I paid dues, but I was never told about the HOA when I bought the house. Long story short, the house existed *before* the neighborhood and thus was not part of the HOA. Both my neighbors were, but it skipped over my house. Time passes and the HOA votes to incorporate into the town. Since I didn't get a vote, my house was excluded from the incorporation meaning I still pay a separate fire fee, but I'm excluded from all local taxes and laws that comes with being part of the town. I know it sounds unbelievable, but I've challenged notices and rules that were placed upon everyone else in the neighborhood and won. My town is actually a great town and even helped me to get things resolved along the way.
my parents property is similarly weird, their side of the street is technically unincorporated, while the other side of the street is in a city. caused quite a few issues early on with people calling code enforcement, only to find out that my dad working on his car in his driveway was in fact completely allowed unlike in the city across the street.
There's a house in my neighborhood like that. It's sits right on the edge of the development. Nobody has ever said anything about it and I doubt nobody ever will.
I had a similar issue with an HOA. My property was 30 years old and adjacent to a new housing development that had an HOA. They tried for over a year to enforce their rules on my property, even though it was not part of the HOA. When that failed, they started filing false complaints against me with the township. Yet, every time a township inspector came out to inspect my property, they found no violations. Since the complaints were made anonymously, i could not prove it was them making the false claims, and when they started filing complaints on a weekly basis, my house was eventually listed as a "nuisance property", and i was charged $1k every time an inspector came out. Keep in mind, the inspectors NEVER found a single violation, yet I was still charged for every complaint. It got so bad that I was forced to sell the property at a loss, and the new homeowner was forced to join the HOA under threat of similar legal actions.
Its easy in the usa. If corporations or people want to create these types of entities, all they have to do is give politicians lobbying money to create them, as well as all the rules and regulations to suit themselves.
in 2015 I bought a house with "no HOAs". over a year later I was informed of the HOA by my neighbor. long story short, the previous owner was secretly paying the fees every month, had they not I might have ended up in the same situation. I sued the sellers, their agent, etc. for 10% of the value of the house plus attorney fees and they settled immediately.
Hope we can get updates about the outcome. Sounds like they stole her home. Did she even belong to the HOA? Sounds like it was their intention to steal property.
Lived there 12 years. 10 years of unpaid fees. The HOA started without her knowledge or consent. Any competent lawyer would get this entire thing thrown out and sue the HOA for damages.
When I bought my house, I had to sign an "I agree to be part of the HOA" document at the closing. If she didn't know about the HOA, that implies she didn't sign one. If she didn't sign, is she part of the HOA? On another note... When I was house hunting, I read the HOA bylaws for every neighborhood I was seriously considering before making an offer on a house. One HOA management company refused to let me see the bylaws. They said they were made available only to homeowners in the neighborhood. I, thinking they didn't want the expensive of making a copy for me, offered to sit in their office to read the document. They said no. I ran very quickly from that neighborhood.
Not exactly. Under the law in most US states, once a property is in a HOA, the property has to abide by the rules and covenants of the HOA. The seller has the duty to disclose if a house is in a HOA, but failure to disclose does not mean the house is no longer part of the HOA. It just means that the buyer can go after the seller in court for damages resulting from the nondisclosure.
@@finris1 it does imply that the relator and seller violated the law by not notifying. Also the title company too as there is a specific form that MUST be signed by the buyer letting them know the property is part of an HOA. It should also be the burden of the HOA to show they had attempted to contact her in person as well as letters, though that might not be the legal requirement, it should but I doubt it’s there. Either way, there is a lot more to the story and HOA is definitely at fault for not attempting to met the owner in person. They most likely are attempting to strongman the property owner into having her join the HOA by sending the “notices” and then selling the house to someone who will join the HOA and pocketing the money for themselves.
This. When I was looking for my house back in 2012, I looked at the listings carefully, and more or less didn't bother looking at any of the ones in an HOA because of this type of garbage.
The fact that she's just now finding out would make we want to look at the original documents from when she bought the house to see if it was even in the HOA at that time. It wouldn't be the first time that an HOA just decided that a house was in the association.
it wouldnt of been by the sound of it. If she lived there for 12 years and the HOA only existed for 10, then something is not right and HOA really has no grounds to stand on.
@@theghost6412 I missed that - that’s a fatal flaw in the HOA’s case if true. You can’t get drafted into an HOA, and the homeowner wouldn’t be unaware of being in an HOA if she had joined it.
So how would they have obtained several liens on the house if those require the HOA to demonstrate they've taken significent steps to contact her? It's not very likely that they met 5-11 drunk sleeping judges in succession who all signed off on liens without checking the proof of first making the claim, proving delivery, proving being in contact etc.
If the debts is only $1,400.00 then wouldn't they legally be required to give her the rest of the money from the sale? This is so evil what happened to her.
Right? My friend and her husband separated. The car she drove was in his name. He stopped paying payments but didn't tell her and they only owed around 2k. It got repossessed, went to auction, and it sold for 5500. The bank got their 2k plus a lil more for some fees and her husband got a check for 3200. The balance left after the bank got their money. Why wouldn't a house work the same.
I had dealings with an HOA before. People with NO responsibilities and tons of time on their hands run for board positions and get drunk on power. They are totally insane.
Now a day there is companies that will run around enforcing HOA rules on all the homeowners, and these people literally have nothing better to do then run around and act as the biggest tyrants they can be. Assuming the HOA uses the company of course.
That almost never happens. A greedy bunch just got arrested for stealing millions from an HOA, which means they got away with stealing thousands, tens of thousands and a million. They only got caught because they made the hole too big.
there are valid reasons for example: minor child hit and runs your trailer, totaling both it, and the car on it, and landing you in the hospital for 2 months their mother is a realtor, and she’s not willing to cover the costs of her uninsured child’s actions
@@tacticallemon7518Sounds like a problem between two people that a court can solve. It should not be up to someone else who can change rules to be able to sell your house from under you.
Nobody would ever pay property taxes. You would also never be able to borrow against your house, nobody would have an incentive to care because they can't use it as collateral. So you may functionally end up much poorer due to less borrowing power, and governments would be less able to function.
HOAs taking houses should be illegal regardless. You OWN the house. You paid for it, its in your name. Noone else has a right to interfere in that. Sucks for her since justice in America is only for the rich. Like the people who run HOAs.
The association’s rights are specified in the CC&Rs, which are a contract. You should not be able to buy property subject to an association without being given the CC&Rs and signing something agreeing to them.
HOA's should never have this kind of power. They should only be allowed to sue for dues & penalties, but NEVER be allowed to just sell someone's home from under them.
It sounds to me like the HOA was almost counting on her not being aware she was a "member." The HOA in my dad's neighborhood CONSTANTLY bothered him, to the point my brother and I were contacting the police and placing restraining orders against the president of the HOA (my dad had dementia pretty bad and didn't understand why this woman wouldn't leave him alone about the length of his grass). He was never part of the HOA, it literally stopped at the house next door to him (there were about 20 houses on the street, and my dad was one of six homes on the street that were NOT part of the HOA). HOA's are great for condominiums, but are absolute trash when it comes to everything else, at least based on my experience.
Truly. The only purpose and HOA can serve is managing and maintaining community property. Like the common areas and commodities of condo developments. In a condo the HOA cuts the grass, pats landscapers, plows the parking lots and roads, and handles all building repairs not caused by owner damage. In a housing development... They just collect money
She also has to sign a membership into the HOA. I hope they can't produce such paperwork. Sounds like if she didn't even know she was in an HOA so she probably never signed into the HOA.
I lived in a California HOA. My ex wife did not pay the HOA fees for just over a year! When I finally began to open suspicious looking mail, I realized that my home was entering foreclosure within days! I had to max out credit cards, borrow money to pay off a $11k debt. The HOA fees, the HOA attorney fees, and the HOA legal fees! I’ll never move back into an HOA again!
One of my previous coworkers had a HOA. He was fined because a tree's branches were obstructing the sidewalk in front of his house. Also, he wasn't aloud to cut the tree branches because the tree was HOA property. He wanted to complain, but the HOA only met on weekdays at 2pm. As a result, nobody with a job could attend without taking time off of work. Which he tried, so they tabled his issue to the following week.
HOA's are literal mafia scams. They'll put in undefendable rules in an attempt to catch you out so they can fine you enough to take your house over a few thousand dollar, sell it to someone for several hundred thousand dollars, then try and take it off them over a few thousand dollars worth of fines. Its legal burglary.
If you fine me for the tree branches I will immediately go cut the tree branches. End of story. How could they legitimately explain fining you for the branches and then fining you for cutting them as well. Dude is playing their games so they will keep it going.
Had a similar experience. HOA’s are protected by local politicians and judges because they don’t want to do their job. I moved into a neighborhood where an HOA was established by 6 people and no one was ever notified. The judge upheld the establishment. We literally battled them in court, with overwhelming evidence for three years. When I finally moved out the HOA was disbanded and I found out I was literally the only one in the subdivision that had paid the HOA dues. HOA’s need to be outlawed.
@@toriless I had a title insurance agent who was incompetent and irresponsible. I ended up paying the seller's back taxes, because the title settlement company didn't disburse the monies collected to the proper authorities and I was told those monies were instead applied against my closing costs. Two years after my home purchase and I'm having to have the deed corrected, due to scrivener error, where the deed inaccurately reflects that the seller only conveyed 2/20 interest, when there is no record with the court or the county of anyone else paying taxes on the property or having any interest in it.
In the 14 years that I lived under an HOA the thing that will always stand out is that getting a letter from the HOA garnered the same emotional response as getting a letter from the IRS. I will NEVER live under an HOA again.
I know someone that bought an HOA house and she was so happy as the HOA kept up on the mowing and snow removal. When I talked about your you tube channel and some of the problems people have with HOA's she thought I was trying to piss her off. Thanks Steve. I told her that my mother told me to learn from other peoples mistakes so I might not make them. The people now days seem much more crazy and sensitive.
Growing up I remember a story where a HOA did this to someone in a close by neighborhood. It was a older couple that they did it too. The son found out and came up from Florida. He apparently walked in and shot up the HOA main office that oversaw the area then disappeared on a plane to Egypt and never came back. I say good on the son. Thankfully after all that I believe the older couple sued and completely won.
So the HOA did this on purpose to steal the home and the person who bought it probably has ties to the HOA .Did the woman sign any HOA documents at time of purchase ?And does the deed state there is a HOA ?
I’d Really like you, or some of the many people who liked your post, to please explain what the actual evidence for this accusation. It sounds to me there were definitely mistakes made, and that the members of the HOA are not doing their jobs.
@@nunyabidness3075 Occam's Razor? The fact that it was sold at half market rate alone is super suspicious. Hell, apparently the HOA never even contacted her in person despite her never answering any postal communication.
She also needs to file suit, or a complaint, with the real estate agent and title company that sold the home to her. Being part of an HOA must be disclosed to the buyer prior to an initial offer, and again during closing.
My sister lives in a semi-private neighborhood. She built her home over 20 years ago. There has never officially been a HOA but over the years new residents have moved in and claimed they started one. I got so bad the"HOA" had meetings no one knew about and held a "election" naming one of the the "HOA president". They then started mailing out the new rules and regulations to everyone. They also tried to demand dues claiming everyone was behind since no one had paid since it was started. Needless to say it didn't go over very well. .
I know a person who was fined from an HOA for having an above ground swimming pool. She was told that she had to take it down. As it turned out, she was one of the first residents in the neighborhood and never signed up or was required to belong to for the HOA. She was able to prove this and kept her pool. I don’t know if she was made to pay fees.
If she didn't know about the HOA, then the seller and the HOA didn't disclose the existence of the HOA. Thus, she obviously didn't sign the HOA contract, and I would have demanded the contract be presented in court to prove that she was not subject to the HOA.
I am from the Republic of Ireland and have always wondered why these organizations even exist. They apparently do very little if anything for homeowners and the fact they are allowed to operate at all is unbelievable. Anyone joining one, if not on the board etc themselves, is a lunatic.
I guess the idea is that they make sure people look after their home and lawn so they don't look like a dump and lower neighboring homes' property values, in addition to providing things like community pools, laundry, etc...That said, you wouldn't catch me dead buying into one since I'm used to the countryside and the freedoms that entails.
The German equivalent primarily exists for apartment buildings where each flat has a different owner, to organise stuff that affects the building as a whole (central heating, roof, facade, etc). And they usually only meet once per year to discuss what needs to be done and how much everyone needs to pay for that (based on sqm owned).
I used to be an office manager for an HOA (locally operated with no management company). One day I was walking down the street and saw a piece of paper lying on the street and picked it up. It was a notice of a tax sale for a property about a 1/2 block away. Just lying there in the street. The elderly lady who owned the home was widowed a few years previously and forget to pay her taxes as her husband always did it. In addition to that, she was a "snowbird" winter resident and was away for the season. I called her and she was able to save the home. Things can happen! I'm glad I saw that tax sale notice in the street that I assume was just stuck somewhere outside the home because nobody was there.
Anytime I purchase a home I use another particular Realty company as my Buyer's Agent. It saved me from exactly this!! We had no clue that neighborhood was under HOA. We walked out before signing anything.
I will NEVER buy a home with an HOA. It's part of my requirement. I had a situation where I had gotten to the signing of the paperwork to own this one home. Started reading, which made my real-estate agent nervous. Found out there was and hoa in the documentation. When I asked the real estate agent about if there was a hoa, she said no. I then read the paragraph saying otherwise and asked why she lied. She tried to say it's become standard and that I didn't have to pay regardless of what's on the paperwork. (The homeowner was present during this) I promptly stated the entire deal was fraudulent, and I demanded my down-payment back with full reimbursement. They tried to say I wouldn't get it until I stated that we would go to court, and I would refuse the purchase anyway while filing charges for fraud against both the seller and agent. I got my money back and I tor the documentation in front of them both. I do not play games when buying a home, I don't take kindly to my time being wasted. I don't need some organization to "protect" my property value. That's my job and my business. I don't believe in a hoa, nor will I ever allow some random stranger to tell me what I can and can't do with my own home. No one has the right to the privilege of owning the home without having the responsibility that comes with it. nor do I believe they have a place in my country. To those who disagree, my only reply is a quote: "There is a sucker born every minute." -P.t barnum/David Hannum
I currently live in an HOA where we have no grass, just moss and dirt, yet we’re paying collectively over $100,000 yearly for landscaping that doesn’t happen. Also the people on the HOA board have been a part of the board for over a decade. We all tried to vote for new board members but somehow all the current board members won. On top of the $100,000 a year they take, they “needed” to INCREASE the amount they were taking from us due to “unexpected amounts of landscaping” they had to do the past year which is bs. We’ve been fighting them for some time now but it seems like we’re losing. HOA should never be allowed they always end up criminal or pulling crap like this
Start building ham radio towers, FCC will help subsidize them and takes precedence over state and local laws. It'll make the neighborhood look ugly, but will piss of the HOA 😂
The moment she got the phone call she should of filed for an injunction against the sale and NOT move out. File for a restraining order against both the HoA and the person attempting to buy the property. Finally sue the HoA itself for a few million for trying to sell her home without her knowledge.
You may only recover the actual damages. That would be $0 if she wins. If lucky, she may get her attorney fees paid. Now, she may include punitive damages against the law firm, but that is a long shot. If the law firm didn't file correctly and took it to court, they may end up being sanctioned, but that is another story. It isn't that I'm on he HOA's side. Far from it. But a court won't give a million dollars when you have been made whole by the return of the house.
@@alanmcentee9457 I could see arguing the HOA owes per month rent in addition to costs incurred for legal fees and other expenses when she was forced to leave her home.
The person was not attempting to buy the property. He bought it. Completely. I hope you can not get a restraining order to get a legal owner out of his house just because you claim that a pre-previous owner was not notified of the sale.
Especially when you consider that the man that bought the house bought it for half the value of the house. Gladly we dont have this nonsense in the UK.
We already live in a society where enough rules already exist when you step out into the world, your home should be off limits. I don’t want to be told how cars I park in my yard or driveway, what color I can paint my house, get permission to put a fence up, be told that can’t wash my car in my driveway, be told when I cut or water my yard.
There should be a law against HOA having ANY amount of legal power whatsoever - along with actual oversight so as not to overstep or abuse the law for their own gains. They will lie, cheat, and will STEAL from the people in their location.
@@derrickbonsell so why are some of them taunting legal actions against homeowners they target? If they don't have legal power, why are they able to use legality to sometimes evict homeowners from their own property?
@@obsidiansands because what they're doing IS illegal. Nobody can legally sell your property in your name but you. HOA's are corrupt through and through and they probably bribe officials to look the other way when they're committing all these illegal acts.
I live in an HOA in Pitt County North Carolina. When I purchased the home, the builder said that there was no HOA, and there wasn't for over five years. Then I get a letter in the mail saying there is now an HOA and I owe dues. I got on the board to see how the process works. The board does whatever they want regardless of the laws. For example, they allowed the builder's mother to not pay her HOA dues on 22 lots and properties in the subdivision in order to use one of the lots as a playground. They were enjoying foreclosing on people for $200.00. I did not agree and told them that if they did this, they had to return the money to the homeowner that was over and above the HOA's legal costs, they refused to do so, said it was theirs and had me removed from the board. I hate HOA's.
If you don't sign the contract to join the HOA they can't touch you or your property, issue a notice of tresspass and file charges against any violation of that notice.
She is likely being less than truthfull about that though. HOAs have AGMs and annual elections, she would have been recieving notices about that. So, while she may have dissagreed about what was going on, there is no way she was ignorant about it.
I get letters from "lawyers" all the time, which turns out to be scams or offers to buy my house. Unless it's from the court or sent certified, I throw them in the trash.
my wife and I found our forever home a few years ago, had everything we wanted, huge garage/shop for me, large country kitchen for her. we decided to make an offer but once our realtor found out it was in an HOA we said Hell no and walked away. Kinda hurt at the time but life doesn't always turn out how you want it. We are happy with the home we did find.
I did that several times until I found one with decent terms. I now am its president too. If I do not like a rule I put is up for a vote. I have mentioned example before.
Unless the HOA is listed on the deed as an owner, this is so illegal that the HOA can be sued into oblivion and the the woman (plaintiff) will own the entire neighborhood.
Whats interesting about this story is the fact the woman said she had paid the house off in full and lived there for 12 years and is only now finding out about the HOA. What I'd like to know is just how hard had the HOA tried to notify her prior to the COVID fiasco? Because it's kinda suspicious that 1 the house sold for less than half it's value maybe much less and 2 the convenient timing of the foreclosure and action combined with the new owners seemingly ease of contacting her to ask her when she'd be vacating his new home. I'm just guessing but I'd be willing to bet that if someone really looked into this ordeal they'd fine a strong correlation between the new owner and someone in a position of power at the HOA. I'd find out who the new owner is and I'd investigate to see if they or anyone they associate with knew anyone on the HOA and see if they'd had any dealings before. They'd most likely done it thru a realtor or developer and maybe the property tax assessor because a similar stunt was pulled off where I live a few times before the people involved got caught. Which immediately got swept under the rug but that was decades ago before everyone lived online
It's also really convenient that, after 12 years, they start the foreclosure process in the middle of COVID shutdowns, knowing that there would be excuses for a shoddy process of serving legal notices. Why start then and not at 10 years? There is definitely more to this story on the HOA's side.
It was noted early on in what you said, that they admit that she never signed anything. It was a little vague, but to me that implies that she literally never signed into the HOA in the first place and Everything the HOA did might be illegal. Especially paired with the 2 year discrepancy between the time she started living there, and the time they started trying to collect dues, what are the odds that the HOA started 2 years after she moved in, and she isn't part of it.
A google search turned up the founding date for the HOA as 2010. If she was living in the house for 12 years before the sale, then the HOA did NOT exist at the time she purchased the home. It may have been on the developers Phase-2 to-do list and they never got around to having her sign paperwork acknowledging the HOA membership. Either way, the laws for HOAs need to change to provide home owners with the power to stop unlawful taxation without proper representation. As Lehto says, the failure to deliver the proper service of court papers does not lie with the home owner, it lies with the HOA. The HOA failed its legal duties. Hope the HOA has to pay more than just damages for its failure.
@@bradfordprice3781 More, MUCH MORE than that, there needs to be PROTECTIONS for Home Owners AGAINST HOAs. They should not be able to foreclose your home, pocket the money, and say "It's a Civil Issue, hope you have thousands in the bank to Sue me!" There should be MANY Hoops, Loops, Checks, and Legal action that the HOAs are REQUIRED to do, and Failure to do so, and they get into a Lawsuit with a Home Owner, the HOA then MUST be Required to pay for EVERYTHING, including the Lawyer Fee of the Home Owner because of the HOA'S ILLEGAL ACTIONS.
@@wmdkitty But we don't know if SHE knew that. And it might not even be true. Have they shown legal papers of her signing the Documents? Were they formed before or after she bought the home? Did the last home owner disclose the information and bylaws about the home being part of the HOA? And on top of that, can we question the fact that it's the HOME that's part of the HOA and not the OWNER, and thus when someone sells the house, the new home owner automatically takes their place, contract, and agreements they might or might not know about. Instead of having the home Default to no longer being part of the HOA and the new owner must be asked to join and not forced in? Would clean up a LOT of fucking issues!
I have a friend who went through a similar instance. It was not from an HOA. It was from improperly filed deed paperwork, which resulted in a lengthy court battle that he ultimately lost. They got the land. But the house that he built was not what they were expecting. He had gutted it. Took all the wiring, plumbing, doors and windows, frames, inside and outside fixtures. They got an uninsulated house shell. They took him back to court and lost. He had receipts for EVERYTHING.
In CA, the buyer must be given the HOA bylaws during escrow. They also must send you certified letters if you are delinquent. It sounds like the law firm the HOA hired was incompetent. It's also bizarre that she didn't get correspondence from the HOA all those years. Now the new buyer is going to sue, the HOA is going to sue the law firm, and the homeowner is going to sue the HOA. What a mess! It sounds like a case for the Institute for Justice, for the original homeowner.
The problem is she is CLAIMING she did not recieve anything, but that is exactly what someone who did recieve all that stuff but just ignored it would say.
Moved into a brand new home (we're the first and ONLY owners) 28 yrs ago. Our 1st section of the development is NOT HOA. The 2nd half Dev. part 2 built 2-4 yrs after ours IS HOA. When # 2 filled up our block got all kinds of notices from them for dues....we all shut that down right quick. They kept sending letters and leaving notes on our homes if we weren't home. The city helped us with that, along with the builders of our homes. (3 different builders in different blocks) Along with that, Our section has street lights. (we pay about $1.50 a mnth in our utility bill to pay for this) the HOA part has no street lights....it's very dark back there. I never checked to see if that's a requirement. FL has some weird laws about 'things'.
I have note questions, such as was she even part of the HOA? They have 10 years of bills, but has been there for 14. They just add her without notification.
HOAs originated to provide stable utilities to their residents back when cities were still developing Cities realized that these neighborhoods were willing to personally pay for their own infrastructure and maintain, as well as pay city tax, so HOAs save the government money since the residents within them pay extra to do the government's job In exchange, the government gives the HOA government authority Having government authority allows corruption and law manipulation
@@alexanderelderhorst2107 When you consider both depth AND scale, the US is the most corrupt country on the planet. It even may be the most corrupt in merely depth. I live near Mexico. Mexico is corrupt, but access that that corruption isn't only available to the very rich. Corruption in the US is very exclusive.
I live in NC and I was told when I bought my home that there was no HOA which made me very happy. I have heard about the nightmares such as the woman you're talking about. I've even hear of people who owned property that was handed down by generations that wound up with HOA problems by the HOA claiming they had control of the properties surrounding their property thinking they had jurisdiction. HOA's are a danger.
If an HOA really can draft surrounding non-HOA properties into the HOA against the owner’s will, then there is no such thing as non-HOA property anywhere in the state, and possibly not anywhere in the country or even the planet. After all, if the houses one block outside are annexed, then there’s another ring of houses one block out, etc, etc. “We are HOA of Borg. Your property will be assimilated. Your finances and architectural uniqueness will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.” 😳
@@shabazz18 Sure you would. If you don't pay your dues after the HOA annexes your property against your will, they can foreclose on it and kick you out.
HOA council members can in some cases be allowed to buy homes that the HOA foreclosures on. So they’ll fine a homeowner for something trivial, lump on late fees and attorney fees and someone who has paid off their house loses it.
My neighborhood decided to start an HOA . I was at the end, bottom of the hill and no one pass me or myself agreed to partake. So we didn’t get snow removal… then I started getting bills saying I had to pay or I was not allowed access to my home. I still didn’t pay. When my husband was going through chemo he paid the bill just to get them off his back. A year or so later my husband passed, the HOA put a lien on my home for the remainder they felt was owed. Short story. I never agreed to be in the HOA. How can they make you pay for something you don’t want?
I would strongly advise you to seek the assistance of an attorney. To make it worth your and the attorney's while, both compensatory and punitive damages from the HOA should be sought. I would not let this matter go on any longer as the HOA may find a way to steal your house from you!
It it is a county or city road they can't prohibit access. If they lied to the city/county court to get the road handed to the HOA, then they are in the wrong, but you'll need a property lawyer to sort the whole thing out. If the road was a private easement in the first place, then you are likely liable for a share of the costs of maintenance absent a specific contract stating otherwise.They can sue for collection, but they can't deny access.
@@WorBlux on this matter I didn’t explain everything. The street is paved up to the house before mine. There are a total of four properties that are not on the paved section. For 15 years my husband and I were buying gravel filling in washed out and pot holes that developed. Not once did the HOA trim tree branches, fill a hole or get charged to exit the neighborhood via my graveled road. The year before my husband passed they put a gate at the bottom of the hill were the gravel road ended with a padlock. They didn’t want anyone driving through. Yet they still never did anything for those of us whom lived on the gravel section. Our mail boxes were at the top of the road. What they were doing was land locking me for a fee. When I bought this home there wasn’t anything said about HOA / private road/ fees…
A couple decades ago a man in Arizona mowed down an HOA meeting after they towed his car and foreclosed on his home. I'm surprised it doesn't happen a lot more often. The guy had nothing left to lose.
Routine defense of his home from burglars. Property is always more important than Life because you wouldn't want to be living with all your limbs missing.
@@dolphincliffs8864 You mean the part where the State gave him two death sentences and 351 years in prison for those murders/attempted murders? And he died on death row in 2013? That true justice? The man's name was Richard Glassel.
This almost happened to a neighbor in a horrible HOA controlled community I lived in. He went to the HOA president's house in the middle of the night with a gun and told him to stop the lien in writing right there or he would kill him. The man did so, the neighbor was arrested and we all demanded that the HOA be removed with us as the HOA. I left years later as it was becoming ridiculous again.
@goomba8170 It's actually not a bad idea. In some areas HOA's are required by law. So, it's better to have an existing HOA that simply has no rules or bylaws, instead of not having one at all and risk someone else creating one you don't want.
@@Shade01982 You need covenants and bylaws in an HOA, that is part of the HOA. You just write them so they can never be altered or added to without 100% of the homeowners, and make that the only provision. Ours are written so you need 72% to change them, do you know how hard it is to get 72% of people to agree on anything. The problem comes in when there is community (HOA) property. We can't get rid of the stupid HOA because of the community property, and we can't gift it to the county or state. So we have this HOA everybody wants to disband but can't and have to pay dues just for insurance on the community property. And the US government just passed a new law that will make it even more expensive to have this HOA no one wants and can't get rid of. The law probably makes sense for HOA's that are in the money making business, but we barely get the money to pay insurance, we will probably have to double or triple fees (ours are cheap $30 per year) just due to all the overhead burden the gov't has placed on us. No one is currently paid in hour HOA and we have no fines, we can't even afford to put liens on people for not paying dues. I have never heard of an HOA being required by law, though a business that is involved in HOA's may tell people that.
HOA's - the gift that just keeps on giving (in this case news stories) When we did the sale of my Mom's house earlier this year, there were multiple forms that all asked if the property was part of an HOA, and when we went into closing (my nephew bought it and asked if I could stay since I was far more knowledgeable about what was being discussed) there were several different notices, not only the one I signed but one from the Title company explaining HOA's and that this property was NOT in any kind of HOA.
They do that for a lot of reasons. Buying a home gets people all warm and fuzzy. It makes them make decisions they wouldn’t normally make. Look at how many people agree to an HOA and then cry about it later. This just seems like a good way to avoid being liable for buyers remorse.
@@williammeek4078 Yeah, but the seller she bought from may have (secretly?) prepaid 2 years of fees...we just don't know the facts, and this wasn't disclosed in the story.
In Oregon, at least in my limited experience in civil law, the case doesn't move forward unless you provide proof of service to the court soon after the initial filing. How on earth did this happen? Did the judge not question the fact that the owner of a $400k home just doesn't respond at all? What a crappy judge.
this was my question as well, im assuming they lied or misinformed the court by saying "yes the post office got a signature" but never revealed it was not gotten due to covid.
@@handlesarestupidyoutube I'm wondering if the mailman was cutting corners and marked down covid to get through his work faster. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened when something needed signed for. Had a computer part that I had to sign for several years ago. Saw the delivery truck up in the window and by the time I walked the 5 feet to the door the truck had already turned away and the mail tracker said no one was home. And that at least 3 or 4 years before covid.
the "proof of service" can be one person that swears to have served the paper to the right person. Now, lying under oath is a serious offense, but... those people do not know what they brew up. The judge not questioning the non response, well: The legal system has to move on - it is too much to ask for the legal system to serve legal papers by an official, I mean, can you imagine how that would look? A state official going to people and handing over official papers regarding a court case? Insanity - it is much cheaper to let the private sector handle that.
@@olstar18 Was that FedEx? They are REALLY bad about that. I called their customer service line a few times letting them know their drivers were lying about making delivery attempts. It quit happening as often once I started reporting it every single time they did it.
I was in real estate in NY and explained very clearly about HOAs to anyone considering buying a property subject to one. I view them as an extreme negative and would never personally buy a house subject to one nor would I let anyone I know do so. HOA abuse stories are many and legendary. In every closing I was involved with the buyer's attorney specifically asked about whether a HOA was involved. So did the title insurance attorney. The homeowner may have cases against multiple parties here.
I should think so. I can't imagine it is lawful for a real estate agent to show a house that was part of an HOA without disclosing that fact prior to the showing. In fact, if I hire a real estate agent I specifically specify that they are NOT to show me anything that is part of an HOA and if they do they are fired. But more importantly, how did they close without disclosing that fact? This all smells like a scam to me.
Seeing an HOA on a property would be a dealbreaker for me. Feels incredibly dumb that some idiots in my neighborhood or even some other management company can have power over my property. Now that I now they can file a lien on the property that's a hell nah.
But in WA ONLY tax liens can cause a sale, not ANY other lien, what happens is those liens must be paid BEFORE ANY sale can occur. So you you own th county 20000 and the HOA 500 them county can force a sale if over three years are unpaid and ONLY then the HOA would get their $500. However, if you were to sell it ALL liens must be paid before the sale can close. This is more typical and what I suspect is the law in MI as well. The three years rule probably varies but usually only tax liens can force a foreclosure.
@@Bobo-ox7fj I'd argue that property tax isn't actually on the property, it's on any citizen who owns property to reduce the wealth gap. Property tax doesn't limit what you can do with the property. Also: Don't whine about being a serf to government. They organize the army.
@@sammorgan31 yup. Three years after we bought our home the government changed the deed restrictions for the area to include high aircraft noise. I had a guy tell me we signed for it when we bought. I’m like nope. We read every single page and that was added afterwards. It’s important because when we sell it may impact the price that it will go on the new deed and we can file for compensation. We also read the HOA restrictions and they included a limit on the length of vehicles and the tonnage. We changed our plan to buy a truck based on that
If the HOA had been in the community 10 years and the homeowner had been there 12 years, and the HOA never recieved a single payment or obtained a signature from the homeowner then they shouldn't have any legal authority over the home.
The HOA has been there since before the first lot was sold in the subdivision. The HOA was incorporated in January 2006, at the same time the subdivision was created. Rogers bought her property in January 2010.
