Part 2 of me sweet guide to the Wood Elves Army. We'll blast through some potential army builds against each faction. And some tactical thangs to think about when in the heat of sexy Elven battle!
I have found that giving your glade lord a dragon is really worthwhile, the added beef means you can stay in the fight longer while that added scales means you can survive a few more missile barrages, and it only costs 250 more than an eagle.
I honestly didn't know that about the forest attacks! I just assumed they hit harder when situated within trees... 'cos, well, ya know...."Wood" Elves. I did wonder why they were getting so few kills though, so thanks a lot for clearing that up mate. I always thought I was a pretty good general with the WE, but it just goes to show you learn something new every day! You've earned yourself a sub for all the great content btw. :)
Not much has changed honestly. Get a sturdy frontline so your archers are protected, perhaps a cavalry unit or an eagle for the enemy archers. If you are playing the sisters of twilight, take two units of hawk riders, since they get a very powerful ability. Sisters of twilight are the strongest lord for the wood elves in my opinion, so I mostly go with them.
Using the forest to hide your archers is the key to defeating Bretonnian peasant archers, since you can't really out-cav them, just lure them in piecemeal. I'm sure it works for Skaven and Skinks as well.
Great videos man, totally looking forward to more of them. Here's my feedback though: You might wanna make faction guides for the armies that already have their regiments of renown and updated rosters (like the dwarfs with the rangers and bolt throwers which were added with the DLC). It's a bit of a nitpick I'm sure, but that way the guide is less likely to become obsolete soon.
Sure, I get what you're saying. But who knows when the Elves will get RoR. They haven't been out long, and the Chaos don't even have them yet and they were a DLC at launch haha. I typically only do Army Guides for DLC factions. I'd love to do them all, but these take ages and unfortunately real life slows me down D: Glad you like these though and thanks for the feedback.
No dislikes at all!!! Not a single one! And its been over 3 days. This just goes to prove how amazing you are at making tutorial videos. I feel as if these were almost stolen from the developers hard-drives. Tops to you bro, and i hope you continue to make more videos and even branch out into other games/genres/stuff in general
Thank you man. Appreciate such kind comments. There certainly will be more videos, and as the channel grows, hopefully more games! :D I wager someone will leave a dislike after seeing this comment just to be an asshole. There's always one. haha.
Initially I was skeptical on watching this because it was over 4 years old, and I assumed that the faction changed enough with their DLC that the information here was dated, but I seriously learned a lot from this. While I was doing the divide & conquer strategy I wasn't using it to it's fullest potential. I'm still new at the game, and have a lot to learn, but this helped me immensely. Thank you!
I found the elves on campaign very beginner friendly; basic but solid units to choose from, no confusion with varying types of units; great range and speed of troops; strong leaders - especially Dhurku or whatever his name is, he's a train; no worries about settlement maintenance - only upgrade main settlement, it just basically overall condenses the game into an easier to manage mode. But I do get Elves are not toe-to-toe armies, you don't just run them straight ahead, but their tree units are quite powerful. I'm sure multiplayer is quite difficult because without your arrows and getting flanked i can see being cut down by infantry, being surrounded and attacked by calvary - it would be very micro intensive to avoid all these scenarios with a smaller amount of troops relative to other races.
I totally agree. The only major drawback to them that I found was the campaigns amber mechanic. Other than that they're absolute killing machines, and EXTREMELY easy to win Heroic Battles with when you have missle units that just pew pew the crap out of everything and run away at impressive speeds. Definitely an army for advanced skirmish tactics though, and some beginners may struggle with that. But yeah , on the wholel fairly easy to use.
the only thing i found challenging with the elves in campaign was their lack of economic prowess for the first 30 turns, however investing in technologies that increase economy ( the one the increases port income by 400%) and the vineyard upgrades etc
Good guide mate. I especially like the battle at the end, summing up all the points you made visually! Any tips for a dude who wants to get into online battles? I think I've played campaign to death and want a new challenge, but I'm a little hesitant with the online stuff
Thanks man. Start with Matchlist battles rather than Quick Battles. Better players are in quick battles. There's lots of Lobbies called 'noob 2v2' or something. Try those maybe. Or just any 2v2, 3v3 are a good way to start if you're afraid of 1v1. Get used to fighting humans and their wiley ways, then try some 1v1s. Don't be afraid to lose, and use losses to learn why you got beat. "In order to succeed, first you must fail" and all that.
Great video. I've pretty much sucked at playing this faction despite it thematically being my favourite. I never thought to use trees as a front line (12 per unit!) but having tried it.. damn! Please update this with the ROR units and maybe some online battle gameplay. Giving us your thought process as you're faced with an opponent that isn't an AI.. I think that would be awesome
Your guides are very well done, Zerkovich; you really do the TWW playerbase a good service. Hopefully this one will result in a few less unnecessary Wood Elf fails.
I have won some crazy battles with a really Missle heavy build, poison for slow and depending on the army change archers accordingly, if done right and you choose the location ie have trees if you can, you can kite most units around the map very easily running circles and picking them off, of course, this only works if you focus down the dangers to your archers fast and it does drag the battle out but it sure is fun, it has to be annoying as all hell.
Detailed, informative and entertaining. You da best git. Have you thought about a video on stalk + vanguard units? I enjoy forward deploying some sneaky night gobbo skirmishers, but I've never been clear on the exact mechanics for stalk. How close can I get? What, if anything, can change the range of detection? Is it even worth it, it's fun but is it valuable? Side note, night gobbo fanatics can really muck up an enemy charge. Lots of micro, but a blast to use. Granted I've not tried them in MP, hence my earlier questions. Still getting my feet wet there. It is quite amusing to forward deploy some skirmishers to open fire as your army closes. If they try a counter charge, fanatics away! This usually gives enough time for your skirmishers to retreat or for your army to overtake and get stuck in. I prefer the skirmishers over the melee night goblins, as you can more accurately put the poison where you want it. It also prevents their leadership from tanking too quickly. As always, wonderful video. Looking forward to more content!
Thank you Sir. I have indeed and it's on my Tactics vids To Do list as it goes. I've actually tested that and it seems at about 100m away, hidden units will be spotted. No variables seemingly. It can definitely be worth it. Surprise attacks cause human players at least, to panic, usually leading to mistakes. But you can catch the AI out sometimes too. That is certainly some intriguing Goblin Fanatic strategies... I've never actually really tried the Fanatics properly to be honest haha
+Zerkovich Wow I think this might be the only video I have ever seen in 5 years of watching youtube whith just 1 dislike after multiple months and descent views.
I would love it if you did the first 4 factions, but i understand that that would be a bunch of work. The time you put into your videos really shows, thanks!
The archers are good hidden at the edge of forests, but you need the master ambusher skill. Hide them at near max range and fire one volley at a time(halt action/turn off fire at will) and they go back to being hidden. I find this a good tactic when defending small outposts(hide your 3 dryads).
I love your guides mate, they are very helpful. but more than that I really like the quality of your videos, top notch. I've learned so much of this game just by watching your online battles, and your commentary. You have a subscriber in me. Looking forward to see more. Keep up the good work! I very much appreciate that you focus on quality over quantity, a rare thing on RU-vid.
In the forests, the wood elves are unbeatable. Outside of their realms, they need to be used very cautiously. I still think they are the very best of the armies.
The bonus damage from charging is entirely armour piercing, that's why your cavalry are effective against the dwarves despite not being officially armour piercing
I think the point of forest bonuses is to make the forest penalty not as bad as other races get it, giving them an advantage because they don't suffer as bad. They ARE Wood Elves, but their arrows are still many and can't penetrate trees, they just trained harder than others in forested areas.
Now make a how to beat WE guide. They have burned through Bretonnia, the Vampire Counts and Dwarfs in my campaign and one of their armies has beaten two consecutive Chaos armies is n the same turn. Help us Zerkovich, your our only hope.
THe WE cheat in campaign. While a player can barely field any of the damage dealing units due to the amber cost, the IA can field as many as it wants ... and do.
I played wood elves in a tournament for tabletop Warhammer. I was able to shred through a chaos army due to the natural mobility of the wood elves. Don't know if that is feasible in Total War, because it takes micro control of every unit to pull it off. Overall, one of my 3 favorite factions.
I play Dwarves a lot and find Wood Elves hardest to fight. It was all ranged units (who out-range Dwarf units) who just used hit and run tactics and used reach and speed to avoid return fire.
Zerkovich everyone always seems to hate you, but the main problem that I always found was finding money for the first 40 turns or so, as you cannot maintain more than one full army without going bankrupt.
Zerkovich well, athel Loren is unfriendly for the first few turns but gradually warms to you. However, you cannot confederate until you get to tier 4 of the oak of ages. Once you do that the campaign is basically won and at that point you are almost unstoppable, but before that you are scraping by for money and getting the amber necessary is a very difficult task. Every time that I have played as the word elves in a versus campaign I have lost. In battles I always found that they were my favourite race due to their speed and ability to do hit and run or ambushes very effectively, but their campaign is just... Hard; do you have any advice for their campaign? I'd appreciate a video on the subject.
A couple of things in WE v Dwarf matches which may well be stating the obvious but important. 1....Especially in ladder matches check the map you have, small open maps like Glacial lake are bad news, not all Dwarf players will box up and you have no room to use your best asset which is manoeuvrability. Big maps are your friend you can normally stay out of arty range and pick away at them with Waywatchers, flock of doom etc. Patience wins the day don't just rush in. 2....... Don't forget Wardancers with spear ability if being shot by ranged it helps a lot.
a build that was rather good against dwarves : glade lady (dragon) 1 waystalker 1 way stalker or spells singer of beast only with flock of doom 2 wild riders (Shields if you have money) 2 poison glade riders 1 hawk riders 1 hawk riders or 1 glade guard anti armour the rest is glade guard with shields and 1 wildwood rangers the goal is to harass with glade riders and hawk riders and occasionally use wild riders to pick single targets or bait some slayers glade riders should go after slayers preferably hawk riders can be used for baiting or picking up some units or just do charge damage on heavily armoured guys the arrow of kurnous ability and flock of doom are super important kill as much infantry as you can with the arrow of kurnous from way stalker (should be deployed in forests or behind enemy lines) and from the glade lady also use flock of doom extensively on the biggest amount of armoured infantry as possible if your spells singer takes damage from the spell it's not a problem she's there only for this spell if you do all this correctly the enemy main infantry should have taken A LOT OF DAMAGE by the time your cav and heroes and maybe hawk riders use all the ammo they got THEN ONLY you should engage all the infantry you got, just charge. continue to use the way stalker and glade lady arrow of kurnous and you can also send them to melee also engage hawk riders etc in melee if you happen to need a little bit more "meat" do yeah that's it may sound cheesy but it's fun and works well
Dryads vs Bretonnia can be dangerous. If the enemy decides to bring peasants with fire arrows which is a very obvious choice against wood elves they will suffer quite heavily and the enemy will get a lot of values out of very cheap units.
I know your plans are not full proof no army is full proof but one issue with the bretonian army is if they use flame archers your dryads become worthless. So some times it's worth swapping the dryads for spear men with shields and not getting the upgrades
I don't think the number of kills indicate the actual amount of damage a unit does. You could do 90% of the damage to one Giant, and then the unit that did the 10% deliver the finishing blow, making it look like one performed better than the other.
Thanks for the video. Would you make video about army builds to counter WE? Btw. How to counter WE tree army build and flying army build with Vampires since VC have only one unit with flaming attacks and fell bets speed was nerfed to 100?
Wildwood Rangers supported by a flock of doom Spellsinger + earthblood branchwraith actually DESTROYS dwarfs. Not sure why you had problems with that. It does well when supported by a glade lady on dragon + 2 wild riders with shields, but you can use a Durthu with no spells but Flock and drop the beasts spellsinger for a unit.
It's an OK guide. It's true you tallked about everything, but you missed the only advice the world was waiting for... how does this faction counters the legendary 19 death vampire heros with Manfred build, which ends up being 20 sprint leeches on your dryads?. Great vídeo, the little advices are very useful.
Okay, here's the best Strategy. Press Escape, and quit the match. BOOM! You just saved 10 minutes of your life being wasted by an utter gimp. People that actually bring builds like that aren't worth your time my friend. Leave and move on to an opponent with some balls.
Like any faction, you just need to take down their Strength. If they have a lot of missiles, you need to find a way to deal with that. Your missiles, Cav, flying units. If they have a lot of Cavalry you need to focus on containing them. Dangerous infantry? Well Elves infantry is actually pretty susceptible to Missiles itself. Etc.
Now I have played quite a few battles with the Wood Elves, mostly against AI, but a few online too. The main problem for me (except for keeping up with all that's happening at once in a 12,400 game) is the fact that two of the Wood Elves' main weaknesses seem to combine into a very problematic issue for me. WE units are more expensive overall than most enemy units. Therefore, most enemy armies contain more units. Even if I have a frontline of Tree Kin and Dryads that can hold up the centre really well, the enemy armies often envelop me by sheer width and my supposed flanking units like Wardancers and Wild Riders are forced to go toe-to-toe and take charges in the face, unless my centre is to be completely swamped or my skirmishers are to be smashed or scared off. Also, my Dryads don't seem to hold out that long. Sure, Tree Kin are absolute tanks, but it feels like Dryads flee against most non-crappy enemy infantry. And since the Wood Elves are so expensive, I don't have the numbers to go two units on one when facing high quality enemy infantry. Do you have any good suggestions?
It's hard to say without seeing both army compositions. But Dryads shouldn't do too bad against most lightly armoured infantry. Heavy armour they can't really handle, that's where Tree Kin come in. They do seem to feel missile damage and rout quick from that so try to keep them away from those. You could try focus firing your missiles on the flanking units. Or look for a tactical piece of Terrain to make flanking more difficult for the enemy. Or if you can spare a unit of spears to send with your Cav, they can protect from charges.
They are though to play. I have all factions for TW:W 1&2 (exept the vampire coast) and they are the fraction I have the most difficulties to play with. Hit and run tactics are the only way to sucseed in the campain. I love playing elves, but high or dark elves are way easier to play! So get TW:W2 and enjoy these elves :)
The best build against Vampire? 20 horse archers with poison, because they don't have range. I challenge you to find a build for VC to counter this. All fliers/horses? They will be decimated while chasing. Any slow unit gives additional disadvantage.
Yep, that works against AI. I doubt any player would shoot zombies. More likely, they would shoot your lord dead. Then retreat, until all conjured zombies die. Also, 8 conjured zombies is probably not enough for 20 horse archers. I use 8 conjured zombies as fodders against 3-5 AI's foot archers in siege. That was just (barely) enough, if microed well(1 zombie at a time, long thin line, running all the time, induce AI to shoot empty area for a while and so on).
I think there should be more cases where certain factions were at a disadvantage against certain others. It's one way to make factions considered weaker to have some relevance. I bet that if Wood elves and Beastmen were more balanced against the dwarves nobody would pick dwarves.
So here's a question: are Dragons worth it as the elves? Listening to what you've said, the Treeman and the Great Eagle seems to perform the Dragon's role better, since the Treeman can hold the line better than the Dragon, and the Eagle is faster, which means it can harass more enemies while the Dragon flounders in the air.
that dwarf build you faced with elves is weird they lacked their greatest strenght artilery and ranged units. i usualy get 2 thundereres and 2 organ guns in front with 3 quaralers behind them and flanks are covered by the tankiest dwarfs i can afford. most of the time the engangement is with a broken skeleton of a melee force
Would that accuracy bonus help in melee though? Like, what if you engage their front line with your elves in the forest, would that help, like, have your missile units wait in the glades to rain death, but engage with your melee units in the woods to get that extra accuracy and slaughter -everyone-?
interesting that you went with swifshivers, In the campaign I just used regular because they could kite ahead of enemy ranged and still kill them off, and by the time their army got to my army they were all nearly dead and it was an easy rout. man the Ai is bad, didnt make me screen with cav or anything.
dam man you missed the fact that vampire counts have no ranged units so taking flyers you could if you avoid there own flyers you could be invincible but keep in mind they have considerable magic and flyers themselves
awesome as always! Is there any way you could go back and make similar videos for the older races in the base game? might be asking too much, but gotta ask anyway, would make me really happy :)
Hey mate, thanks for the videos. realized I have some bad habits and was under utilizing a few units. Any point you think you'd try using the Forest Dragon? Or is he just too big/expensive?
Nah he can have his uses. His armour piercing will do a nice bit of damage against higher tier units or single heavy characters. Just gotta be a bit careful with him as he's not invincible after all!
Hmm... High damage but low staying power huh... Sounds like the Dark Elder of 40K, who are known for their "class cannon" abilities/traits. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
10:49 _"[...]That brings us to the Dwarves. A difficult faction for the Dwarves to deal with."_ ... ha... ha ha... ha ha ha... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VPRuL9ACZeM.html One word, son : Waywatchers. Forget everything else (just had some Wild riders with shields for good measure.) 1) Range of 180 (same as Flame Cannon.) You'll outrange anything that isn't an artillery. 2) Shoot while moving ; 360° coverage. You don't even need to care about formations - he does. 3) 35 base stat speed. You'll outrun everything the Dwarves have. 4) Stalk. Invisible while moving even on open field. Outflanking opportunities against an opponent that turtle all the time ? Unmatched. 5) Armor piercing missiles. Why meleeing them when you can drop them like flies ? 5*) Also, "Hawkeye" ability : Armor Piercing damaged increase by 25% as long as there's no ennemy unit present at less than 70 meters around the unit of Waywatcher. Dwarven artillery ? Stalk : you've got to see them before shooting. By the time they see you, you're in range ; if you've been moving on the flanks, they'll have to re-orient their artillery. Thus losing even more time. Quarellers ? You've got better range, do not need to re-align and can outrun before they even start shooting when they can. Dwarven infantry with shields ? Not even the Ironbreakers can handle them. Dwarven infantry without shields ? An all-out buffet. Gyrocopters or/and Gyrobombers ? Come on, man. Christmas is supposed to happen once in a year, not all days of the year... Slayers ? Yeah, sure, trying to catch a skirmisher missile unit with an infantry that has 0 armor. Nice one, pal. The elves against the Dwarves is the same logic as the Tau from Warhammer 40.000 : _"Yeah, we suck at close combat. It's a shame you never get there."_ If you're trying to match the Dwarves in melee combat then no offense but you're definitively doing something wrong (or are playing siege mode.)
mmmNope. Waywatchers lack the ammo to chew through an entire Dwarf army. Even if you spammed a 12400 army full of Waywatchers. They wouldn't have enough ammo to get the job done I'll wager. And then what happens? They try to go toe-to-toe with Dwarfs? You'd also undoubtedly end up in a bit of a Skirmish with missiles, in which case, Waywatchers would take as much damage as they do from a unit of half their cost in Quarellers. Wild Riders will be comfortably dealt with by missiles/Slayers. Shield or not. Or you could simply move your Dwarfs into some Trees so half the Waywatcher arrows ping to the ground, becoming a perfect metaphor for the hopes and failed reliance on Waywatchers to bring down an army of angry Dwarfs. By all means, most of your points aren't wrong. But it's easy to type up. Not so easy to micro all that. Anyway, these builds are coming with the notion that you're going to use a somewhat balanced army. Not spamming like a chump.
Look, i've been there as Dwarf : you put the warriors with shield in front, the Quarellers behind, the artillery behind and the Slayers next to the artillery. That's the standard drill. The thing is, against a good Wood Elve with excellent micro gestion, it doesn't work. Period. And i'll use your points as to ponctuate why. _"mmmNope. Waywatchers lack the ammo to chew through an entire Dwarf army. Even if you spammed a 12400 army full of Waywatchers. They wouldn't have enough ammo to get the job done I'll wager."_ Who said anything about taking down the entire army ? Just focus fire on the units you want to disappear the most and it's done. i'm not even exaggerating ; two Waywatchers on a single Ironbreaker or Hammerer unit is like looking at an ice cream of health inside an oven of damage : it melts. And that can be done without having to waste all of your unit's ammo upon them. I know because i have been there... as a Dwarf. I had the Norgrimling's Ironbreakers in my army and they were focus fired upon by two Waywatchers. In four salvos each they were reduced at half HP - by the time i brought my Quarellers into range while putting them back behind my lines, the Waywatchers were retreating out of my reach... And it was like that. All. The. Time. _"And then what happens? They try to go toe-to-toe with Dwarfs ?"_ Huh... once they've lost enough HP, Dwarven infantry aren't very scary anymore. And when you add the Lore of Life into the mix to heal and reinforce the Elves, they become pretty damn scary. (And i'm not even taking the Flying units into account when they can charge in a Hit & Run fashion.) _"You'd also undoubtedly end up in a bit of a Skirmish with missiles"_ Here's the thing : if you're trying to exchange shots with a missile units that outrange you, you're the one which will get the short end of the stick. If those same units you try to shoot at can shoot AND move at the same time, it's even worse. And when that same missile unit you face can move invisible on open field... you just start sighing heavily. The reality is that the one with the greater range gets the initiative. Always. Why do you think the A.I in defense always moves towards you when you bring artillery in your army ? That's because if she wasn't moving you'll end up getting free shots all the time. That's why Dwarves always take artillery units in their army composition. otherwise they'll be srcewed. And in this case not even the Artillery can help because the damnable Waywatchers are invisible on the field, thanks to "Stalk". _"Waywatchers would take as much damage as they do from a unit of half their cost in Quarellers."_ This can only happen when you play the Waywatchers like a regular missile unit and not a missile skirmisher - which it is. You're not supposed to make a line with them against the Dwarves ; you're supposed to disperse them. Scatter them around the Dwarves turtle formation, raining arrows after arrows upon them. Irritating the opponent player as to force him to order his troops out of position. Then striking. That's exactly what both Hannibal and Attila did against the Roman with the Numeidan Cavalry and the Mongol mounted Archers. And they could do it because the Roman had a crappy cavalry. The results were historically brutal. And the Dwarves ? They don't even have cavalry - which is worse. _"Wild Riders will be comfortably dealt with by missiles/Slayers. Shield or not."_ And why should the Wild Riders be the one to charge first ? In fact, why should they be the one to move first ? Have the Waywatchers dealing with them first if you need so : the Slayers have no armor whatsoever and the Quarellers have less range. Plus, if need be, the Wood Elves have access to a "net" ability that can completely immobilise all units caught in it's AOE. (An immobilising AOE with the best missile units in the game that can be used against units that do not have armor... this is just disgusting.) The sad truth is that Wood Elves are like the Eldars in Warhammer 40.000 : absolute crap in a straight fight, plain godlike in hit & run and ambush. They rely heavily on mobility and baiting the ennemy out of his position. You never charge with them downright (except if you want to lose.) You always first wear the ennemy down and place your troops on favorable ground before getting in. That's simply how it is with them, precisely for the reason you mentionend above : they suck at melee. So all they have to do is to avoid getting in melee befre they've dealt enough damage to the ennemy. That's all.
We could go on all day. Everything you say has a counter, as does everything I say. But it's not as cut and dry as you make it sound. Everything is situational after all. Human errors will be made and that's where things can be won and lost. Well you said Waywatchers are all you need to take down Dwarfs. Okay, they take out the Ironbreakers/Hammerers whatever. Who's is going to take out the other 700 heavily armoured Dwarfs? Your apparent build is JUST Waywatchers and maybe some Wild Riders? Your logic fits mostly, sure. But is unrealistic in real time.
_"Well you said Waywatchers are all you need to take down Dwarfs."_ I was being sardonical. Waywatchers can't get the job done purely on their own. But when backed by Cavalry and an Elven hero with the "Net" ability, they can pretty much tear apart anything that is Dwarf. They can move while you don't, they can't shoot while you don't, they can flank you while you don't... Honestly _"Who's going to take out the other 700 heavily armoured Dwarfs ?"_ Waywatchers have 18 ammunitions per units. It takes 4 salvos of two of them to bring even the Ironbreakers of reknown to half health - and they have an increased size unit compared to the regular ones. What will you do then against six of them ? You'll have the equivalent of 108 anti-armor shots ready to bring most of the Dwarf army on it's knees. By then you'll have suffered so much damage that any cavalry unit with a good speed, charge and the supportive spells of the Lore of Life, will be able to chew through them. And what can you do against a Cavalry that hit you in the flank and back off just right after before taking losses ? Send the Slayers to deal with them, only to be stopped dead in their track by the "Net" ? Use your Quarellers that, too, can be pinned down by it ? Use your artillery, hoping that it hasn't been caught in the same way ? Plus the Cavalry's main strength always lies in it's impact, not staying power. Your supposed to charge with them, then retreat - it goes double for the Elves. If you're playing Elves with the idea in mind to face the Dwarves in melee on your own accord, you're doing it wrong. That's all. _"Human errors will be made and that's where things can be won and lost."_ You assume the WE can get it wrong bu the Dwarf cannot ? If you assume that the player is making a mistake then it is the player's fault, not the units themselves. When the player do not make any mistake, you realize that the units are the problem. Good WE players typically do not make the mistake to engage any Dwarven infantry that hadn't be previously weakened by missile fire or cavalry charge ; they even less hesitate ordering those same troops to retreat if they see no benefit into maintaining the engagement as it stands. If they don't then, no offense, they're not suited to play WE. I'll repeat myself : Wood Elves are like the Eldars. It's a faction that relies on heavy micro-gestion to get the full potential off of it. If a Wood Elves players is looking at a nice and easy way to beat Dwarfs in melee combat wihtout thinking, then he's doing it wrong.
'sup! I'm currently playing a campaign as elves, my friend is playing chaos. Since there is no cost balance to the armies in the sense that skirmishes have, he just has 3 stacks of chosen with a giant and a couple of knights in them. I don't really know what to build against those stacks, any chance you can help me out? :)
Elven Archers will get equally destroyed by the Dwarf Missiles though so... Yeah AP missiles will do the damage. But would they win a trade off? Not sure...
Well I did try it after posting the comment. I tested an army of waywatchers vs a generetaed AI dwarf army. As long as I keep them from being engaged in melee and focus down gyros first and missiles second (they burn down so fast) at the start, I won on all resource levels
for an army that's meant to have very powerful archers, they don't seem to get picked alot. not a critic of you, just I think the dev's could have done better.
Yeah, for the "best archers" in the land or whatever. They're fairly plain. I've heard it said that apparently Waywatchers, the best Archers they have, have the same accuracy stat as Peasant Bowman. Work that one out. Accuracy stat is hidden but modders can see it I believe.
Let's be honest, foot archers are made uselessly easy to counter in Warhammer. All it takes to counter them is to charge fliers and monsters straight through the front line, and engage the archers. Then see your outnumbered front line crumble.
I think archers should fire faster, like 1.5:1 for missle:melee units. Or maybe give lightly armoured units like archers a bonus against fliers and monsters. Or maybe all archers not engaging can still fire, so 1 dragon/monster cannot be used like cavalry.
So, I just thought a wood elves army, i was VC, and he simply built an army of spears and archers and kited my entire army arround, and I couldnt do nothign about it. What am I supposed to do if they just run the entire match and keep raining you with arrows?
Press ESC, then Quit Battle. That is simply a spam army my friend. It's the mark of those who don't know how to win by playing properly so, revert to cheap tactics. Honestly, just don't even give these people the time of day. Find a new opponent who has testicles.
@Sebastian Arena I agree. In real world, there are lots of "cheap" strategies that you have to face. For example, Muslin used horse archers to harress crusaders in the second crusade who were basically annihilated. If your competitors use cheap strategy in business, you cannot just quit your life.
All horse archers is a valid strategy that can easily be countered. Simply build half spearmen and half foot archers. Elephant-like units would also do. Ultimately, it's only a problem because VC has no ranged units. I'm not sure, but maybe find a way to waste their missles first? Micro Fell Bats to dodge missles, and they cannot hit you.
Zerkovich thanks for your response! I can pull of a Phyrric Victory by barricading myself against a big rock or something equally defensive, and doing a small ambush with the cavalary and a separate one with the two fast sword units. Not sure if that's how you're supposed to play them?
Well, that's always a problem. They have everything you have and there's no real way you can hedge your bets on what they will bring. See, when Bretonnia brings a lot of Questing Knights and Foot Squires to kill the dwarfs, that's because dorfs are, as a faction, almost entirely armored, but Bretonnian armies might not be all that armored. If you bring these same armor-piercing units against an enemy Bretonnian, their Polearms will kill your Questing Knights and their Questing knights will kill your Squires...unless you killed their knights with your polearms. But, knowing this, the enemy might bring extra peasant bowmen, to deal with unshielded units AND flying units you might bring. BUT, KNOWING THIS YOU BRING IN MORE MOUNTED YEOMEN BECAUSE THEN YOU WILL BE SAFE RIGHT? RIGHT? HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA-AHAHAHAHAHAHA! (and then, after all of that overthinking, what happened in the battle was that the enemy brought no archers at all and butchered the player's excessive cavalry with Hippogriff, Grail, and Royal Pegasus knights while outnumbering the Men-at-arms with Polearms with expendable Peasant Mobs and Swordsmen-at-arms without shields. The enemy was worried he was being too cheap with his infantry, what a pleasant surprise!) Asrai Spears can deal with a lot of Forest Spirits' armor/bigness, but the one unit you're almost certainly going to need are Eternal Guard with Shields for taking down the inevitable appearance of Wild Riders and/or Super-archers. You should probably bring Wild Riders *just because*, but your army could go just about anywhere after that infantry line. Hawk Riders might be less useful because Wood Elves don't have any artillery and the skirmishers the Hawks would have to default to chasing are hella dangerous, but really...it comes down to playstyle and guessing your opponent's preferences. More monsters if you expect more infantry, more cav if you expect more archers, more archers if you expect more flyers, Wildwood Rangers to counter super-heavy Treemen etc etc, etc.
I used this method against AI in sieges. What if a player doesn't shoot your zombies, and shoots your lord that calls zombies? Once the lord is dead, kite until sommoned zombies are all dead of time-out.
As I said in the vid, yes I did Sir. Bringing a spam army of Dryads and Eternal Guard is probably the easy option if that's what you like. But it's not how I roll, so I like to try out some concoctions. It's pretty micro intensive to be fair. But certainly effective.
If Brettonia brings peasent bowmen with fire arrows which is a obvious choice vs wood elves those dryads are not what you want as your front line though.
better anti beastman build is simple 1 glade lord female on a eagle/dragon, then hawk riders spammed. Even if they do have archers theirs are shit and you'll have a ton and i mean ton more. Also not how easy it is for the hawk riders and lord on a wood dragon to charge down and re-engage. If they don't go full archers you insta win and no beast men go full archers.
