World of Warcraft (2020): BFA Ending Cutscenes [Alliance & Horde] - 8.3 Visions of N'zoth 

and the necklace is gonna be placed in some dusty corners from ur bank :D

As if we weren't champions of azeroth when we were level 1 grinding boars....

Didn't we defeat the avatar of and Old God and 2 Black Dragons only to pick felhound shit in Outland? Though I also dislike being called great champion everywere

@@WikiHL "you" didn't. Your 40 man group of nobodies did it. There was no "champion" there doing the killing blow there was no "chosen one".

Go and kick some fish lol

If you'd like me to completely ruin that. He's technically just kinda eternally watching a dude 800 times his size instead of his equally large brothers and sisters who are as powerful but way more sane. They could easily bring him back and completely desecrate any semblance of a redeemable character Illidan still represents, and they most likely will given their track record.

@@DangerousGirlMusic Not unlikely to get the "Child of Shadow and Light" even if he killed that naruu.

Oh yeah I loved how they ended illidan's story. Like how he poured his heart out to Tyrande and Malfurion but the smug bitch and the arrogant prick they both are spit in his dying words

@@lionwhyte___2634 not surprised to be honest. Never liked them very much.

@@sindrimyr5351 Honestly me either. We probably should have left malfurion to be xavius' bitch in the nightmare

Most orcs would be native though, considering most are on the young side as the elders died out with the old warchiefs.

@@banjothefox9263 I guess that does make sense, but remember that the time between the present and the opening of the dark portal back when the orcs invaded was like 30+ years ago. So the time hasn't passed that long. Or maybe orcs do age quickly.

Both them and the Draenai are her adopted children

@@jeffulloa218 True !

​@@jeffulloa218 Hate it when my kids butchers each other to claim the resources I provide them, so I adopt a few new ones so that I can teach them properly and hopefully they can influence my current warmongering kids, but the adopted kids just join the fighting.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that ending was incredibly cheesy. Some dumb NPC babbling about how the "champion" is so spanking fantastic.

I spat out my drink!

@@Cold-Blooded-Jay Made even funnier and7or dumber by the fact that the "champion" in question had the Eye of N'Zoth on his forehead.

so coll

He's not impressed.

While the Horde slowly turns into a Republic, the Alliance slowly branches into a Monarchy.

@@smakajo400 that was to expected Sylvanas decisions tore the horde appart so they choose to try something new so that a single being cant lead the horde into another desaster. The alliance on the other hand suffered alot with the burning of Teldrasil which is why alot of them are filled with hate and is the seed for the next war in future expansions.

@@Gorn21 Almost like they're playing hot potato with the reasons. XD

@@smakajo400 well somehow they need a reason to start another war or else they will run out of reasons to wage war.

@@Gorn21 Agreed as "World of Peacecraft" doesn't quite have the same ring to, it sounds boring unless you're from Moonguard LOL. Also since Sylvanas ark as the antagonist is almost over they need someone new so they are building up Tyrande to take her place. They (Blizzard Dev's) said they have done enough with the horde leaders over the last few expansions and that its time the alliance had their turn at each others throats. Genn and his people are at a crossroads because he's torn between his promise to watch over Anduin to guide him as king and his undying gratitude of feeling he still owes Tyrande and her people for their assistance back in Cata....."That was 10 years ago Genn you own them nothing" haha.

Magni Bronzebeard: Yer a child o' Azeroth! Me: Um, actually...orcs come from Draenor.

@@MostlyHarmless7777 Im pretty sure our orc character was born in Azeroth

@@shardulsingh3174 He probably was, but the orcs immigrated from Draenor, hence the joke. I suppose it would be more accurate to call him a Draenor-Azerothian ;)

Im a death knight and a blood elf. What the hell do I care for what happens to azeroth. I say blight it all and be done with it.

MostlyHarmless7777 You have to consider the fact that The Old Gods had a role in the destruction of Draenor. Mostly because they behind the Legion. So this is really turned into a “universe vs universe” type deal

It's honestly embarrassing how bad WoW looks in general compared to other MMO's. FFXIV and GW2 are honestly gorgeous and they have such a huge focus on cinematics, and then WoW is... well... this video.

@@ByronAndOnAndOn to be fair, WoW still has the disadvantage of being an older engine that is incapable of giving us cloth physics and layered clothing without taking a SIGNIFICANT frame rate drop. Game just eats up too much CPU and there is literally nothing Blizzard can do about expect make a WoW 2.

I know, but at this point I honestly wish they just would make a wow 2 or just a new engine, because apart from the skybox they are so limited in what they can do and everyone can see that.

@@Mochachocakon So, either make WoW 2 or stop spewing one shit expansion after the other. Seems like an easy choice to me. Already in Mists of Pandaria the limitations of Warcraft III's engine were becoming obvious even to players. If Blizzard had made Warcraft IV instead of Warcraft III: Refunded or at least used Starcraft II's engine for Warcraft IV and then make WoW 2 based on that, things would've been a lot different... But eh, they'll get what's coming to them. I already deleted my Blizzard account half a year ago and a lot of my friends are doing the same. Back in 2004, WoW was (perhaps) the best looking game, with the most compelling lore and the best cinematics. Nowadays it is neither of those, and I'm saying that as a gamer who has played mainly Blizzard games for the last 18 years. Nowadays Blizzard is milking players with Classic because Classic can actually get away with being a shit game due to nostalgia. smh

​@@t3chn0dr0n3 "Classic can actually get away with being a shit game due to nostalgia" Imagine being so braindead you actually believe that. Typical low IQ "Nostalgia" argument.

@Yono khanman when a Blood Elf still wants a Warchief to rule the Horde and an Orc and a Tauren don't, you know that times REALLY changed for the Horde this time (cit. Garrosh)

Yono khanman aka a chieftain. Not a warchief, but a chieftain.

Yeah, but it doesn't sound as cool.

@@vados8500 It all started with Thrall's idiotic decision to appoint Garrosh as Warchief. Had he appointed Saurfang as Warchief at the start of Cata, we'd be fine right now.

@@vados8500 Yeah. Wow lore sucks now.

Gorribal (the Dark Seether) is a sword that was forged from one of the two Shatterbound fragments of Gorshalach. Wielded by Sargeras, this weapon embodies the darkness that exists in all beings, even noble ones. If this weapon is ever combined with the other fragment, which has been reforged into Taeshalach, then Gorshalach will be reborn, although this can only be done by a non-evil being. - wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Gorribal Gorshalach, (the Dark Render) is the most powerful weapon in the universe. This massive greatsword was originally wielded by Sargeras while he was a member of the Titan Pantheon. When Sargeras fell to his madness, Gorshalach, being semi-sentient, sundered itself into two 'Shatterbound pieces' to prevent the fallen Titan from wielding it. One fragment was claimed by Sargeras and reforged into Gorribal, while the other was claimed by Aggramar and reforged into Taeshalach. If both fragments are ever possessed by a non-evil being, they can be combined to reform Gorshalach. - wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Gorshalach Azeroth could be the "non-evil being" to reforge Gorshalach.

@@silviafox78 That's no longer canon, Taeschalach and Gorribal are just two swords now

@@hedizaoui609 - ah shit ... oh well there goes that idea.

"That Sword...was aimed at something."

"Sargeras! Take a seat over there!"

It’s almost like her mind *Blizzard* forgot how she actually use to be.

@@XxHrallundeadrogueXx I m not really following the lore but didnt she get "possesed" or whatnot to become this avatar of vengeance?

John Apostolopoulos I wouldn’t trust any avatars you know the saying “when the world need them the most they vanish “

@@mattflub well yeah im not arguing that. Im just saying that blizz gave her a passable excuse for why she has become so bloodthirsty. Plus with all the lore changes and the obvious way blizz is changing the way they write their lore, passable is the only grade id give them.

@@johnapostolopoulos4 Tyrande has always been a bit cold hearted when it comes to anything outside of the Nightelves. She was very hesitant to help Jiana and Thrall during the second Legend Invasion it wasn't until Malfurion convinced her to help fight. But she has always been distrusting towards other races and sadly the buring of her home has really pushed her over the edge like Jiana. I am scared for her because she and the nightelves are my favorite race! DX

While eating Zarg nuts XD

@Chanson that's the reason in Shadowlands Valeera will become an edgy emo teen because of Shaw refusing to bang with her and she will turn into a Void Elf 😂😂 no but seriously, I think she really will become a Void Elf like Alleria eventually...a Blood Elf serving Anduin (and the Alliance) is quite out of place and weird, and the Void Elves really need more important lore characters other than Alleria

@Bergr B Isn't Broll like a father figure to her ?

Wham!

@@vados8500 Not wierd or out of place, Valeera was loyal to Varian and to Anduin before he was even born.

Valeera isn't making those comments in reference to her, but rather a certain someone who's in charge of Alliance azerite expeditions. If you don't know about Flynn/Shaw you have some research to do :)

10/10 upload 1/10 expansion and GET THE BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH, for the story writing.

hahahaha I love the illarden laugh at the end

what is the ending song that you used?

Zug Zug!!

were these armistice related cutscenes ever in game? i cant find the quests for them!

Alliance is gonna have to race us for the kill XD tal Anuem no Sindorei!

this guy watched too much anime

Was looking for this comment. Even the music is very similar.

first thing i thought too

Way late , but I’m a late to the party wow player . Just said the same thing

No Chance Without Pasta i am not sure how Ardenweald can be any “conclusion”. Conclusion would be taking back Ashenvale and then waging a guerrilla war against the Horde in their land.

I am pretty sure she burned it to feed the maw with more souls and anima. it actually would add up to her plan she probably had since the beginning of legion as she was chosen the warchief. probably even before that she worked together with the jailer since the connection was somehow always there since she was turned into a banshee by the lich king. there is most likely no personal reason for her, she just used war for an excuse to kill. i'm still so mad at her and can't wait to hopefully smash her down in a raid. i'm alliance but i felt so much empathy with saurfang and the horde for beeing used by her like that.

@No Chance Without Pasta as a matter of fact we have no evidence in-game or otherwise that suggest that Horde withdrawn from Ashenvale.

Yeah sylvanas burned the world tree as part of her shadowlands plan. I mean she is a major villain for this expansion. She had a reason.

Shut up, nerd.

WoW used to be focused on acknowledging group accomplishments, but over the years it's turned more and more to single-player praise to try and flatter the playerbase into sticking around.

Yeah. Too much emphasis on individual accomplishment and the "me-centric" story gives people a big head and makes them forget how important teamwork is. I understand why they do this, because it proved very successful in Final Fantasy XI\XIV, but I think it works better if you acknowledge that the player is only "one of" the main important people. Have some characters from your friends list show up in cinematics sometimes, too.

@@xxlegolas the reason it works in FF is that it's not just you, the NPC's acknowledge that you have allies that fight with you making it so that whilst you're the "chosen one" you're not the "only one" and that's where WoW fails with its story throughout the past 3 expansions

@@Hauklingur Yeah plus all that bullshit they pulled with "deleting" all the artifacts to prevent the sword from killing Azeroth, and how you never talk to your Draenor garrison again or give use or give any missions to your Order anymore, it all just stops existing, lol.

@@xxlegolas FFXIV has a similar system to the mission table system in the form of grand companies , but there it is completely optional

Dammit

Really lol

PvP was already cancelled in Legion. I want my gladiator vendors back, damn it. I hate pve.

@@BaconMaken PVP is not the purpose of the game, thanks.

Pvp may be cancelled, but Piracy is forever. Release the Privateers!!!!

Who was he referring though, if you dont mind me asking? I have stopped playing so I might have missed stuff.

@@alexandrospapadopoulos4297 valeera

Too bad Flynn don't swing that way as he has a thing for Bolvar's daughter. But her and anduin are gonna marry or I'll riot.

ZE PATO not only was it a joke but that’s hella disrespectful to the lgbt+ community dude what the hell

Too bad. Duthorian Rall would’ve made a better team. They’d kill at 2v2 pvp arena

Matt Wetherille nope they barely spend time together what if he’s talkings bout Flynn fairwind

Bergr B uhmmmm

Isekai Reviewer's Zel would disagree. Them Elves are like grannies 🤣🤣

We need some state mandated elf gfs around here

We all know humans have a thing for elven girls...

Fucked it up? Nah, she was always an evil bitch. Just too many thirsty kids saying she didn't do anything wrong, or being little apologists. Here in the Alliance we admit when our guys do wrong, and watch them grow from it because that's what people who mistakes do. Sylvanas has always done evil and just gotten better at doing so. Ergo she is an actual villain.

@@Kayriel never forget 'signs of a new plague' original in the game since 2004 sylvanas been working on it. Nevet forget the betrayal of garitos, and I remember the wrath gate... i remember southshore.. and all the rest. The dark bitch deserves death. For Lordaeron

@@klevdud k

@@odinrice8583 lol

@@Kayriel She is not evil you are just a stupid hater. And a doodoo head.

Don't be silly. Our bitch king is ready, willing and able to get ass-fucked by that Cow. And Jaina pulled a 180 as soon as green Jesus show up, the whore. Years of character development down the drain.

@@Alastor7783 dosent matter how much your bitch king takes it up the ass. We'll fuck ourselvs to please you in a heart beat. Right after we make our next faction leader go batshit crazy, and if they dont? Kill them and replace them with someone who is.

@@DoctorFail lool history repeats itself

@@cautarepvp2079 "the horde hasnt learned its lesson"

@@xanderszunsol9963 i can only hope, so that this dead horse of a franchise can finally die

Azeroth is a loving mum, adopted or not you're still hers!

So since orcs are Products of Eonar and her life magic (Draenor)((DrEonar)) the connection between the Evernloom and its minions and old gods are extremely similar to explain a pseudo same curse of flesh. Pet battle flavor text suggests Aquir and Everbloom wasps on Draenor share almost identical traits. (((Side note I think Eonar has some deep connection to the old gods)))

@No Chance Without Pasta No, I expected it, and once again I was disappointed to be right...

It's like one of those cutscene videos where the Faces are Cranked to 200% for shits and giggles. You know what I'm talking about.

Usually those lesser cutscenes involve your character in it

Mr Jedite yeah but they look terrible. Better to just not have them

They don't animate them per say. Those in-game cutscenes (basically anything that only uses in-game models) simply utilizes existing animations. They may combine certain animations together to make them seem unique, but it's all in-game / existing. Since most of the models were redone, Blizz made a huge effort to make emotes and facial expressions extremely emotive - almost cartoonishly so - hence they look completely OTT when used in cutscenes. Sadly, this is the only way Blizz can include YOUR character and make them feel part of the story. Unfortunately, the end result is always pretty f'ing cringe.

they may look hi rez but they still move like they are muppets.

Difference is the Alliance is, well, an alliance of pretty much monarchies. It would be way harder for them to do what the Horde has done. And honestly, if Anduin has a way out, he’d take it. I don’t think he enjoys the powers and burdens he has, at all.

@@nevermore7285 yes, and Blizz never addresses this.

@@nevermore7285 Makes sense for Anduin. Imagine having the burden of the whole planet on your shoulders.

And we suddenly get a group of Garrosh or Sylvanas in the future

You say that as if a new Garrosh was a bad thing

Javier Hernández Garrosh alienated most of the Horde , so its a bad idea.

@@WikiHL he wasn't a bad thing. He was the worst thing, so many stupid ideas and reckless actions that costed him half the horde. Thrall may have chosen him to be warchief but HE chose to keep the same attitude.

@Bergr B I know, that's why everyone hates her. Also cause she gets away with committing horrible crimes....

He should have died alongside his disgusting blood elves.

That ain't no reference just a straight up ripoff.

Its more of “When its true then we talk.” Kind of situation since no matter the intention horde has yet to show any action.

ahh a man of fine culture i see :D

@@DiscusvissenRocken I'm kinda missing the line where you hear 'You see N'Zoth, you're not dealing with the áverage Azeroth Warrior anymore....."

@@thegreenreaper6660 and then Thrall shows up and tells N'Zoth about the Pecking Order :)

@@DiscusvissenRocken "whislt staring at the ground, repeating" - All these squares make a Circle! All these squares make a circle!"... Garrosh Hellscream: 'Nvm him Nzoth, he just went through a gállon of LSD!...."

@@thegreenreaper6660 Thrall: Garrosh! i want you to tell me i can leave Draenor whenever i want!...Garrosh: Thra;ll you can leave Draenor whenever.. Thrall : "BITCH DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!"

I am merely the conduct of the great hope that surrounds us all And I believe I'm the first Blue Lanter in the universe

Yup BFA rips off of some epic things make it bad.

They got pushed back in and sealed, their influence is almost nonexistent.

Liya Özsöyler and that last time she was the first of Alliance leaders to offer the Horde peace after SoO when she traded Azshara for Horde no longer raiding Ashenvale. See how that turned out.

According to Blizzard, vengeance is bad...

Misierbobo their logic is something else: horrible crimes are fine as long as you say “sorry” but harsh punishments are evil and should be demonized.

World of peacecraft. Blizzard have consistently made your character one that is doing nothing but trying to create peace. It's so sad because there were so many opportunities to make the game what the fans actually wanted; Garrosh restored honour to the Horde and made people want to play as bad ass orcs before they made him arthas v.2.0 with the corruption nonsense - it could have been a sensible restart to the war, but for purposes of honour and resources as opposed to mindless hatred which would still allow the Horde to be somewhat sympathetic (as someone who used to main an orc, they really do not need to be entirely sympathetic and blameless; most of our playerbase was fine with being hot-headed warmongers). Then they had the whole Broken Shore battle giving Anduin, Genn and Jaina a reason to never trust the Horde again; considering all the crap that goes on in Legion with the 'Light' they could have led Anduin go down a path where he seeks 'balance' (cheesy I know) instead of just the light, and basically had him wage a campaign of retribution - it would have been nice to see the Alliance being the warmongers for once and would have made Anduin a far more interesting character. And then in this, with all the Sylvanas stuff (Arthas v.3.0), they could have really had the war heat up (and initially they did, those battlefronts were actually pretty decent and made the game feel like Warcraft again); but then they forced our character to be a hippy Azeroth-vein-hugger and seek to make fwiends with the opposite faction. Let's face it: The game would have been far better if we could have played as a Kor'kron champion of Garrosh, or if we could have played a blood-crazed 'shadow-eyed' Night Elf waging a campaign of terror as vengeance for the burning of Nordrassil, or if we could have played as a Twilight cultist infiltrating and corrupting the doomed cities of Azeroth. There were so many interesting and epic stories that they could have told, but instead we were made to be a generic peace-seeking member of the Alliance/Horde with no extra nuance (except it was hammered home that we weren't just some random who could have been up to ANYTHING in their spare time; we were the champion with this specific personality that we had no say in). It was fine when the game first came out and our player-character's impact on the lore was minimal and thus we could role-play more or less as whatever we wanted to; but now they are forcing us down certain paths that have taken all the 'role playing' options out of this MMORPG. This game never ceases to piss me off as all of their broad-stories have such promise for interesting side quests and characters, but they are NEVER expanded upon and we NEVER get to see any of it; and then a few months later all the big-bads are dead and all that potential is gone forever.

@@HaggisOfDeath Great points. BFA could have had a great story if the Alliance were the aggressors for once. Let's face it they've had more than enough justification to act preemptively. Aggression isn't necessarily a bad thing, and such story would have been perfect the show nuances of grey on both sides. Instead Horde was the villain again, made to lose the war again and in the rare instances they won a few battles, they were made to feel bad about it. BFA literally punished players who chose Horde years ago. Besides characters like Baine ans Saurfang who switched sides when convenient are poor examples for the Horde. A proper representation of a Horde character (though misguided) was Nazgrim.

You mean you "lost" like all 4 of them? Sylvannas and Thrall are still very much alive. Varian is very much Dead and you should still know the crystal dwarf as the King of the Dwarfs. The Alliance leaders just don't die, they instead turn neutral. Overall the horde just has more story development and therefore more mayor characters get added and removed. While the horde characters end up as raid bosses their alliance counterpart gets deleted offscreen.

@@jasperzanovich2504 Well I mean Thrall isn't even warchief anymore and to be honest kind of just ran off, Cairne died, Vol'jin died, Sylvanas went off to be a major antagonist, so right there the original 4 aren't even there, and Lor'themar is still chilling at least. Now on the alliance side Varian did die, and then the gnome dude is still around, and the night elf leaders are also still around. It's not so much that i'm saying that Horde leaders don't get a lot of focus, they do. And I think way more than alliance leaders, but I feel like building up emotion and character and then killing them off is a really poor way to move a story foward. Ya know? It's like killing someone off to make the plot go forward, it's just bad writing. Varian dying led to Anduin becoming leader of the alliance, that's a dope move. But Thrall leaving to go do shaman things, leads to freaking Garrosh killing Cairne, and then he has to die, and then vol'jin has to take his place, for then him to die, so then sylvanas could take his place, so then she could go rogue. Ya see the pattern here? The Horde plot advancement is kind of just stepping off another character dying over and over.

@@nathaniellindsey706 Superficially that is the exact reason why people liked Game of Thrones. Then again, storytelling is always a very delicate balance.

I think it's very clear which side is supposed to be "good" and "bad". I just feel bad for the Horde players who've had to deal with this for 15 years.

Hes Michael Wrackson.

Dark horde or thrall horde or gtfo

@@DoctorFail True Horde>>>>>

@@arthursebastiany6562 Fel horde>>>>>>>>>>>>

@@DoctorFail iron horde, wait, no. NO

Hail, garrosh. Best warchief ever. I miss him to this day

Bruh XD

Now we can create a third faction for people who haven't had their nuts cut

Tina 01 Anduin also the one who lost the least to the Horde , but he always the first to throw others under the bus.

He lost his father because of horde, if that's not enough for him he's dumb

@• VI • because each time before Horde went from “we are so peaceful now” to “lets go commit more war crimes and burn Alliance cities!” In a blink of an eye. You cant blame people who are constantly under threat of horde’s uncontrollable bloodlust and complete inability to pick a good, not insane leader for acting alerted and mistrustful. Its like asking you to believe a person who is a proven systematic liar and well known fraud - you MIGHT try but you will have hard time not second guessing that.

VladTutushkin yeah, I know, but those leaders are gone now, that moose man is in charge of the horde now and he’s grand! The way I see it, a lot of people in the alliance just can’t separate the terrible leader from his/her people. Genn and Tyrande want revenge for things that Sylvanas has done, and now that she’s public enemy numero uno they shouldn’t have any trouble getting support to fight her but nooo iT’s ThE hOrDe In GeNeRaL tHeY nEeD tO wAtCh OuT fOr. Another example is Jaina, she wanted revenge for Garrosh’ war crimes, which he has admittedly committed many of, and then when elves in dalaran help the fucker she goes straight to purging the entire city of most of the blood elves, a lot of whom probably didn’t even know what the fuck was going on lol. What I’m trying to say is that I think the Horde is in a really good place right and as long as Genn and Tyrande doesn’t do anything stupid, we should be able to just have peace for at least a couple years.

@ • VI • horde still havent payed ANY reparations for a genocide, still haven’t withdrawn from Ashenvale, still havent settled any of the disputes territorial or otherwise that rose during or after this war. Like - what about Gilneas? What about Ashenvale? Who will be guaranteeing that horde will not just spit on all agreements like they did with the deal they had with night elfs post-MoP? Basically they just want everybody to forgive and forget but also to keep all they took during the war. Its a very shitty position if you really want peace. Plus according to Saurfang himself and to Lor’Themar MOST or the horde supported Banshee till the end. MAJORITY of the people were glad to exterminate Alliance races under flimsiest pretexts. Which btw is downright damning. They didnt even tried to establish communication with night elfs for example - Thrall came to Hyjal to fucken demand favours in dealing with his shamanic-disfunction for gods sake and apologised for horde’s actions only when he realised that he might be going too far with demanding anything from people his faction almost wiped out. Plus sylvanas loyalists are still all over Orgrimmar and nobody even checks if they changed their mind for real or not - spoiler, they didnt.

@@MrVlad12340 Actually those loyalists are getting checked and harassed. And, funny enough, the Blood Knights are now securing the peace in Ogrimmar, and are actively seeking out remaining loyalists who even now remain loyal to Sylvanas. Reparations for a genocide. So, let´s talk about Orc-camps and Orc children being raised as pit fighters for the entertainment of the Lordearon-Alliance population, of which Stormwind was a part of. Or let´s talk about Garithos, the man who hated the elves enough, so that many Bloodelves are unlikely to really trust either humans or the Alliance again. (Not even talking about Jaina preventing the re-entry of the Bloodelves into the Alliance by prematurely starting a civil war in Dalaran out of anger.) In all seriousness, peace cannot be achieved the way you describe it. Who is paying for the damage the Alliance did to Zandalar? What about that Invasion of the Barrens during Cataclysm, in which the Alliance sacked villages and helped an extremist group take violently control of Thunderbluff. Or the unprovoked attack on Durotar by Kul Tiras. Peace is achieved by letting the past rest, without forgetting it, but for the sake of the future thirst for revenge must be left behind. Varian, in his later years, knew that. Thing is, you cannot blame a whole race for a war and demand justice from every single one. If you do that, you will just find more war. On the other side, if you do that, you are likely to want war. Just as Tyrande and Genn. They want war. For their own personal sake. Not because it is the right thing to do, but because they want revenge. Alliance has never been more naive than now. But not because of Anduin. Anduin is right here. Genn may take time, but he will come to his senses, he is, despite his losses, neither stupid nor bitter. Quite impressive actually. But Tyrande, she might lost beyond redemption. She has every right to be angry, hateful. But she is putting the safety of her people at risk. She is not acting like a leader here, she is acting like a warrior, who is seeking a fight. Also, if the Alliance would get Ashenvale back, would the Alliance give back half of Arathi to the Orcs? Or will the Stormpike clan finally stop trying to take Alterac from the Frostwolves (who actually have been the first to settle there. Yes, the Dwarves are the aggressors in that scenario)? It´s way to easy to list the mistakes of the opposing faction. The Horde is aware of their past mistakes, the Alliance is mostly not. That makes the Alliance dangerous.

@Der Schurkinist what a pile of rubbish... Well, lets disassemble it, shall we? 1) There was only ONE camp that had pit fighting, one directly under Blackmoore who was testing the waters for possible orcish army to take over Alliance and hence his experiments with “re-starting” orc’s famous bloodlust and battle ability. Plus Stormwind had least stake in camps because they were broke at the moment and for the most part just a “honorary member” of the Alliance due to how wrecked they were by the orcs. Plus camps were not unprovoked and not as severe as what orca did to Stormwind and humans in First War and to night elfs in War of Thorns. 2) Garithos was not officially approved by Alliance and self-promoted as a post-apocalyptic warlord of Lordaeron. And besides, his family got killed by orcs because high elfs couldnt be bothered to go save the human settlement while he and other knights of Lordaeron were fighting to protect Quel’Thalas. Which obviously put a chip on his shoulder. 3) Wars dont end like this - you dont just go away from it. You cant demand justice from every PERSON but you can and should demand justice from GOVERNMENT. There must be a legal process , both sides negotiate and make concessions or reparations or just establish borders and such. Not just declare that war is over and somehow hope that it will all sort itself out. 4) No, Anduin is painfully naive. He thinks peace will maintain itself without solving any problems that led to previous wars. And thats besides the point of OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of horde supporting sylvanas which means that they will join any next dictator/usurper/jumped up rabble rouser when chance comes their way. 5) Ashenvale already officially belongs to night elfs. They gave you whole Azshara zone for it, withdrawing all claims on it after MoP. That was the deal, and horde was quite fine with that. If they oh so honorable now they should remember the fucken deals they signed with night elfs and piss off from Ashenvale. 6) You must be spectacularly... simple to think that unavenged genocide perpetrated by unrepentant nation will be easy to forgive and “move on”. Westerners are spoiled by prosperity and peace, you never faced the horrors of relentless enemy barging into your land and scorching your populace in millions. Never in your history an army marched through your cities leaving only death behind. Sadly my people suffered that more then enough. You will never understand the sheer pain and bitter hatred that leaves in one’s heart, even after wars are over and enemies long defeated and gone. P.S. Jaina and Anduin helped liberate Thunderbluff, not to take over it. Anduin gave Baine the Fearbreaker and Jaina donated huge sum of gold to buy goblin zeppelins to carry on the attack.

"sUBveRtIng EXpeCtaTIonS"

@sassy muffin Yeah but Blizzard did say they are not going kill Slyvanas. Maybe they will kill the jailer and Slyvanas would replace the Jailer.

Genn is loyal to Anduin.

@@arthursebastiany6562 He is but it's clear he is using the same logic Sylvanas used to convince Saurfang; the enemy will inevitably come after us so we must break them before they can hurt us. He has no faith in the peace Anduin is fighting for yet he is loyal to Anduin, how many horrible things have been done in the name of a noble intention or greater good?

I really don't want another predictable war story :( I do want to see more of Genn tho, he's my favourite Alliance boss. And Jaina too. I hope shadowlands will be closer to wrath, that shit was amazing

@arbiter690 the Alliance can be divided even without a rebellion...for example after the Second War when some kingdoms left but not because of civil war. So they can have a story where the Alliance races quarrel between themselves and become weaker even without fighting against each others

Bergr B he was talking about flynn fairwind actually. They’re a thing now

Genn doesnt want war. He only wants to eat Sylvannas and paint a picture of his son in her blood. After that, he doesnt rlly want to go to war with the Horde.

Since he was willing to work with the horde in nazjatar, he doesn't have that much hostility towards them Also the orchestrators of his losses(garrosh and sylvanas) are no longer a part of the horde so who knows

the true horde war

Call it the sha war

Officially, it’s called “The Alliance-Horde War”. Don’t ask me why

@@TheHeartlessFour Both sides used the fact that it happened on foreign soil to not officially declare war. Siege doesn't count as that was a insurrection on behalf of both.

At least Illidan had enough reason to restrain himself until he had enough strength to defeat his foes. I'm afraid Tyrande is going to rush right into the Banshee Queen's arrows and hope for the best.

@@TyudroWymoreEdgartyu2 What tells you she isn't strong enough to defeat Sylvannas one on one?

@@jasperzanovich2504 sylvanas keeps growing and has the power of the jailer at her disposal. But Tyrande also has the power of a literal god, fueled by said God's vengeance to avenge her people. So tbh I say it would be pretty even.

Random Horde player: "Lol. Tree hippies deserve to die reeee."

@@funnyvalentine6670 Alliance: *attacks Dazar'alor and kills Rastakhan* Horde: *Attacks Teldrassil and kills a bunch of elves* Allienca: omg, horde is so cruel and monstrous

@@Drakhesh Because those numbers were sooo comparable. Night Elves' thousands to Zandalari's 10.

Drakhesh because Alliance didnt committed genocide at Dazar’Alor. Its even mentioned in the game when Shaw talks to Saurfang.

Alliance had laid siege to a capital city of a sovereign nation, released a rampaging gargantuan drugged up ape in it, bombarded it, blew up an entire fleet with gods only know how many soldiers and workers on it, plundered through the royal treasury, desecrated a holy site and killed Rastakhan. Thinking no soldiers - or mor eimportantly, civilian polulation died from all of that is anive. I'm not justyfying burning of Teldrassil - I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of Alliance fans that point fingers at Teldrassil, while forgetting their own little war crimes.

yup, and collect ethereal zebra hooves for a green necklace to replace the ohh so precious heart of azeroth with ^_^

Sylvanas is the true one queen.

Bob Kouin she dosent want you though. She betrayed all of you.

@@MrVlad12340 No.

Bob Kouin i guess you didnt played the 8.2.5 then...

@@MrVlad12340 No point arguing with her fanboys, they would still worhip her from beneath her heels.

more FINAL FLASHHH!! Kamehameha is blue ^_^

the idea of the player being the "champion of the world" doesnt work well... when there's literally millions of other players also being called champion.

@@MrBadApple999 lets not kid ourselves, player count has been in the hundred of thousands for a while now

@@dumitrache12 I mean... not wrong. Itll probably climb a bit for the expansion, as usual, then go back down again after a month or two of diappointment.

@@dumitrache12 and its not because they started calling people hero or champion either.

This didn't age well

And there's a bit of nuance for that division too! Even though Genn defied Anduin to help Tyrande retake Darkshore (and in general, shares Tyrande's fierce antagonism/distrust towards the Horde), he's still on very good terms with Anduin (and treats him like a surrogate son). In contrast, by the time of Shadows Rising, Tyrande and Malfurion have become angry enough towards Anduin to ignore all his correspondence (which starkly contrasts the warmer coworker/co-leader relationship that Anduin and Tyrande had during the Elegy novella).

I have the same question ! I have killed N'zoth in NM but saw any cinematic concerning the end of the war etc.

A little late but after you kill N'Zoth, speak to shaw, if you're alliance on the boat in Boralus. After that, you'll go to stormwind.

@@DAWells1983 Thanks. I figured it out eventually. But I'm glad you answered the question for people who don't know.

@@TomBlackstone no problem!

Thrall can curve the disease dude no worries :))

Oh yeah cause the alliance could do that any time they wanted. Dude garrosh by himself was a huge threat to a horde alliance combo. More like the opposte. And i guess you think that because a member of the horde did something wrong that means every1 is bad. It doesnt work like that. In that sense when garithosbwas treating belfs like pieces of shit then that means that the alliance was treating them the same way right ? Well no

@@razien9941 Garrosh himself was only a threat after taking in an Old God's power. Compare this to Jaina, who has the power to completely destroy Orgrimmar all by herself, and only didn't because she was convinced not to. Additionally, the Horde has lost every single major conflict since the First War for two reasons: their poor resource management inevitably leads to attrition, and their two biggest components (the Orcs and the Forsaken) are too volatile to maintain a long-term conflict without devolving into infighting. This is why the Alliance has won every single war since, and they've already had two opportunities to completely dismantle the Horde's leadership: during the Battle for the Undercity, and after Garrosh's defeat in Orgrimmar. The first time they only failed because Jaina stopped the fight, and the second time Varian only allowed the Horde to exist at his mercy. And lastly, keep in mind that Garrosh had the majority support of the Orcs, and Sylvanas had the majority support of the Forsaken. Both of these are the biggest races in the Horde, and both of these supported volatile warmongers. Garithos however was despised even by his own men. That's why the Scarlet Crusade does not revere him.

@@LihoShammy alliance couldnt do shit without the aid if the horde against garrosh . It was the combine effort that finally defeated garrosh and his army. And atrue horde was too much even for that alliance. Thats what i meant by calling him a huge threat. Now about Sylvanas its clear that the horde could defeat the alliance. The problem with sylvanas is that her tactics are more then enough to win the war but they are ruthless which is why many other horde leaders were hesitating to even follow her. Bfa prepatch is a good example of that. She outsmarted the alliance to send ships to silithus but she was actually going for the night elves. We all saw how devastating it was for the alliance. Again another example of how sylvanas is way ahead then all the rest combined. She had the brains resourcesand especially the power to easily win the problem is if the rest of the horde wants to follow. Non of other horde leaders are even capable of leading the horde in the war in the same way except maybe lorthemar or thrall . All the others are all unexperienced as far as war tactics and stuff

@@razien9941 The Alliance couldn't beat Garrosh without the aid of the Horde, but that was only after Garrosh had taken in Y'shaarj's energy. Before that, Garrosh literally had to resort to using the Blood Elves for slave labor in order to keep up with the Alliance. Pre-Y'shaarj Garrosh wasn't nearly as much of a threat as you believe, in fact he probably did more harm to the Horde than the Alliance. As for Sylvanas, even though she burnt down Teldrassil, beating the Night Elves was a massive undertaking that cost her lots of planning and manpower. Compare that to the Alliance's counterattack on the Undercity, which the Alliance had much less time to plan and organize for, yet they still beat the Horde to the point where Sylvanas had to literally nuke her own capital city with the Plague in order to drive the Alliance out. And to make matters worse for the Horde, the Undercity was the Horde's primary staging area in the Eastern Kingdoms, since it was the capital city of the second largest race of the Horde. Now they are left with only Silvermoon, which to this day remains broken and sparsely populated due to the Blood Elves' small numbers. Teldrassil on the other hand was the capital city of only a small amount of the Alliance population, even if you factor in that both Night Elves and Worgen lived there, since the Humans and Dwarves make up the majority of the Alliance. And while you could make the argument that the Exodar is just as broken and sparsely populated as Silvermoon is, the Exodar is also the home of Velen, who is not only one of the strongest individuals on Azeroth, but is quite possibly the strongest counter to Sylvanas and the Forsaken the Alliance has. In other words, in the grand scheme of things the Horde suffered a much greater blow losing the Undercity than the Alliance did losing Teldrassil, and it took the Alliance much less effort to claim the Undercity than it took the Horde to burn down Teldrassil. This once again underlines the core problem that the Horde has faced in every war; the Horde succeeds early because they overextend, but this causes them to suffer greater losses than they inflict, causing them to ultimately lose the war thanks to attrition and infighting.

@@LihoShammy Sylvanas needed alot of time and preparation because she always plans way ahead. The army of the alliance during the undercity battle was impressive but not as much as you think cause guess what. They literally brought anything and went all out. And dont forget that if it wasnt for jaina sylvanas would have killed anduin genn and alleria at once. Sylvanas literally had plans within plans. The entirety of bfa is just an example of how far ahead she is aswell whatever part of the horde actually followed her

Something something turns out the black moon was just as corruptive as fel and we help Tyrande to 'cleanse herself of her rage'. I would not be surprised. Blizz is good at writing morally black or morally white, but a dumpster fire when it's about morally grey.

Jaina was never "evil". Characters don't have to be necessarily good or evil.

Shiki Orochinagi what is “evil” about retaliating against monsters who almost wiped out your people twice?

I don't get that. There is nothing evil about Tyrande's character. Her people lost their homes and suffered; it was a literal slaughter, and she received barely any help from the Alliance, at least until the end. Then, before the Horde could be held accountable for their actions, some boy king who still lacks her respect makes peace for her. Sylvanas didn't hold the Horde with an iron grip. Saurfang is treated as some hero, yet he willingly started the fourth war with Sylvanas, along with other horde leaders to my knowledge. (Bar perhaps Baine)

@@Halterin11 everything is evil about tyrande, she does not seek justice, she seeks revenge and pain blindly, she is unfit for leadership and is driven by a singular desire to inflict pain and suffering on others, she is for the most intensive purposes, EVIL, just like jaina was for a minute before she just randomly and magically POOFED into not being anymore -_-

I need it too noone us answering its hopeless...

hes probably in the maw. a crippled being. you dont want to see him like that

@Bergr B I would like to see Edwin or taelan those who were actually a good man

I wish but with the direction Blizzard is going, I don't want his character to be ruined like they done with pretty much everyone else.

Nope

Wouldn't be cool that if you choose to be loyal to her you get an entire diferent questline in Shadowlands? Like that you would travel with her and act as a spy on Azeroth for her in Orgrimmar

@@fildariusv7045 Yeah it would. I'm not buying shadowlands if I did that quest line for nothing. It was what made me want to play again. Certainly not their gearing system and itemization.

MrMaelstorm I mean the ending of BFA had so much potential but it turned out to be even worse than WOD! AT LEAST THAT ENDING CARVED THE WAY FOR LEGION THAT WAS A GOOD EXPANSION!

@@fildariusv7045 Alliance gets to go through the same "forgiveness good, vengeance bad" story since Warcraft fucken 3 and lets Horde off the hook each time with peacenick leading us so you will eat shit and not get anything for your Sylvanas bootlicking. Now you will feel a small portion of what we get every second expansion.

dokuganryyu if you mean Tyrande being angry at Horde then you might have forgotten how Horde genocided her people mere months ago.

@@MrVlad12340 like when the goblins wrecked and showed their hospitality, as when a leader goes mad all the faction pays for its dishonor, but when king varian decides to ignore all diplomacy everyone forgets, despite the fact that im not the lne forgetting things like it was Sylvanas who burned Teldrasill just to sow despair into people in order to fight Nzoth's corruption in the very worst possible following the plans of the shadowlands entity, as people tend to forget too, the rest of the Horde has rebelled against a mad warchief for the second time, but because Tyrande was doing nothing during Legion she is now Batman and has to be the link for hatred in the alliance, just as Velen when back in Draenor he literally allowed the orcs to be manipulated and enslaved by the Legion, so when the first Horde obliterated Sattrath he decided that they could not be helped and didnt even ask when arrived Azeroth and joined Alliance just in order to have an excuse to kill orcs, Alliance is intolerant, and with Anduin it has a development of understanding of ghthe young that dlnt want to inherit the hatred, as Jaina in W3 fought his own father she understood that you cant doom an entire race for the decisions of one leader, but then Garros blows Theramore and she literally becomes the biggest hipocryte iuntill she meets Thrall again many years later. As the Horde is used as the engine for war, Alliance is the one for hatred and misunderstanding just for developing the history of how many different races can coexist in one world once you realize that factions are just a mere way to separate people of being united.

dokuganryyu can you get MORE wrong, thats the real question here. Horde overwhelmingly supported Sylvanas, Saurfang’s rebellion being a small fraction of the Horde. He himself admits it and basically Horde ONLY became “good” again when they heard Sylvanas insult them openly and then fly away. And still there are shit ton of her loyalists in Orgrimmar if you bother checking. Which means - Horde is responsible for the genocide. Alliance never waged such wars, they fight to restore the peace, bring back status quo while Horde goes for civilians and weak, killing indiscriminately and committing war crimes. Forsaken experimentation on their captives is one of many example. And no, ONLY Horde leader who payed for their crimes was Garrosh and even then he mostly got punished for corrupting the Horde, not for being a monster to Alliance. Tyrande offered Horde peace first after SoO - she gave up fighting for Azshara in exchange for Horde no longer attacking Ashenvale and leaving it for good. See how that went for her? Horde spat on the deal and attacked again, this time almost wiping her people out.