Taliesin of "Taliesin and Evitel" does an amazing breakdown of this cinematic, finding all the nuggets of lore nerd payoffs. For example Saurfang begins the duel with the line "Let it be finished" which his son proclaimed before changing the Lich King and dying.
Saurfang achieved his two remaining life goals: Outing Sylvanas, and die a well deserved warrior’s death in honourable combat (honourable from his side at least). A noble cause. My favourite things in this cinematic is: 1. Anduin gives him Shalamayne (massive squee), 2. Shalamayne splits (MAAAASSIVE SQUEE), 3. BANNER BAE ❤️, 4. The King of the Alliance helping to carry a fallen Horde champion into Orgrimmar, while everyone on the barricades salutes one of their greatest heroes (goosebumps and tears).
CILinkzSpre3 - so, you honestly think that was Sylvanas’s plan all along? To out herself like that? I certainly don’t. She had been putting on a show, to be credible as a Warchief who cares for the Horde. She never was - but she had so many fooled. No way she planned for that snarled “The Horde is NOTHING”. You can even see it in her face - she got provoked by Saurfang and his loyal declarations, and then he managed to land a hit WHEN SHE WAS SO MUCH BETTER THAN HIM - and her facade slipped. Sylvanas is smart. She knew that there was no way she could undo what had been said, so she went all in. Insult the Horde, drop a massive bomb of unknown power on Saurfang, insult the Alliance, and then 💨! She had probably had plans for leaving at a later stage, without losing the whole Horde, but she decided that she had gotten what she wanted anyway, and she’s insanely powerful so 💨 it was. Sylvanas hasn’t given shit about anyone but herself (and Nathanos) in a very long time. And now everyone should know that.
I dont think it was her plan to out herself blizz just dumbed her down to blurt that out in front of OG she won the fight and had everything. Whatever her plan was (maybe opening tbe shadowlands portal later on?) i doubt leading the horde as warchief would be detrimental to that she could gave easily do that while still in power that just look like plotarmor for the hero and thrall. The only reason i can think of would be she gets controlled by someone and her breaking off the horde is her attempt to safe them by not being in control any longer
@@CILinkzSpre3 It doesn't have to be a conscious action, I also think it was a slip. She was humilliating Saurfang, she could win from the beginning but was toying with him. When Saurfang was attacking her she wasn't even trying, just barely moving her arm to deflect the attack. You see in her face that what he's saying is getting under her skin, and when she receives the hit she just stops thinking rationally and blurts out the first response that comes through her mind - the truth. It's a very human thing to make a mistake like that, a discussion ending abruptly because someone says something awful is pretty common, normally something like "well I think you're just an asshole" can cause a similar effect of "saying the quiet part loud". It's the exact same thing
Small correction. Mak go'rah (the duel) doesn't have any premade rules! This is something people tend to forget. The rules of Mak go'rah are specified by the participants before the duel begins! So if one of them before the fight says ''No magic, no ranged weapons'' atc. than the these means of offense or deffense are not allowed, BUT!! If nobody says anything before the fight, exactly like nobody has in this cinematic, than the participants ARE allowed to use what ever kind of weapon, magic atc. they choose to! So the only mistake Sylvanas made durring this duel, was her rage outburst. If she managed to control herself, than she would still keep her honor in the eyes of the Horde and would be by all means still allowed to lead it as its Warchief! Saurfangs whole plan was build around this idea! He knew, just like everybody who tried to help him, that no matter what kind of power or weapon he were to wield against her, it wouldn't be enough to stop/kill her and he would die! And Saurfangs whole story was building towards it. Like he said to his dead son, near the wrath gate ''You have earned your warriors death my son, yet once again, I am denied it..'' . Saurfang wanted his honorable death for a long time now, but since he never really had honor (atleast in the way, that Horde sees honor), he wouldn't be allowed to re-join his son and family in the Shadowlands! So he found a loop hole, that would save his people, restored his honor, got rid of Sylvanas and finally allowed him to be with his family! When Anduin gave Saurfang his fathers sword and Thrall his hammer, Saurfang became a united symbol of BOTH The Horde and The Alience! -> Aliances Kings sword in one hand, former Warchiefs hammer in the other. Army of The Aliance on his right side, army of The Horde on his left side! Saurfang became the first stone in the united foundation between Horde and Aliance. He proved that in the end, both sides simply want for theire people to live normal lives and have a home! So he entered the duel, purpousfully not saying any rules for Mak go'rah, while doing everything he could to push her buttons. It had to be him, because out of all of them, she hated Saurfang the most and he knew that. So no, Sylvanas did not cheat, but she betrayed The Horde and thx to Saurfang, The Hordes eyes finally opened! Dont worry thou, I am like 95% certain, that we will get to see Saurfang again in the Shadowlands, as Sylvanas will most likely want to turture him before we manage to help him out somehow.
Mak'gora is little bit complicated that no one should not using magic or stuff like that. That is not official rule. From the lore, Mak'gora is 1v1 without no rules in general, but, with rules what both of them concert it. In this point maybe it was cheat but nobody in any dialogue in game talked about cheat or something like that after this duel. She was enough strong to kill him without any magic. So in this case, it is pointless. I cannot wait to see another one (video from you) :) btw normally, from Pandaria lore, she was relatively weak, Saurfang or Bain just catch her with hand to want talk with her and she felt that strong from him and scared.
Respectfully disagree. Mak'gora has rules: only one weapon is allowed and no body armor. Both sides can have a shaman for ritual blessing. As it's custom, the duel is to the death. Go read the novels before you reply otherwise.
@@henrymichaelson7208 I read that and I though almost exactly the same about it like you. But after this trailer, there were many people like me, who had question about it, because I was not sure. Few lore, hm, "experts" fromm my country and also Taliesin & Evitel and Nobel87 had a good point for this from some of dialogue of Draenor expansion. And I believe them. Because I didn't read that many times or so good as they. Right now I am trying to find out that video on Nobel87 channel but without success.
Sad that Reckoning is the most Highlight cinematic so far. We as player, had questline to gather up in Razor Hill, a little area for Horde in Durotar, both Alliance and Horde were there. All leaders of Horde and Alliance was there, includes windrunner sisters, but Tyrande was not there, but Genn Greymane "Wolf guy" was there but on back gate of Orgrimmar. I explored the area, I could see army of each races, spread over whole front of Orgrimmar, and i saw army of Night Elves which i wondering why, not supposed to be there. There are many disagreements that this refers to the WrathGate cinematic. The setup are almost same. The way Sylvanas walks out and the door opening, when Saurfang said "Let it be finished" and his son said them same. Next is ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N1prcJsx8Fo.html, and the Sylvanas Loyalist cutscene.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2AUpwFZKC38.html Before moving to Visions of N'Zoth intro Cinematic Ny'alotha Ending Cinematic Blood War Epilogue Horde Blood War Epilogue Alliance For Azeroth - 25 Years of Warcraft Shadowlands... Shadowlands Features Overview
The magic shes using is unknown even for Lor'themar the leader of the Blood Elves who knows A LOT about magic. Also I love the look the Undead lady next to Sylvanas give when she screams "the horde is nothing" like "you shouldnt have said that now youre screwed"
It's not new she always had black magic as Queen Banshee, we saw it on her arrows for a long time but it was just not shown before. Except that now its power is amplified all like Arthas, Bolvar and Illidan for example ...
Using magic on Mak'gora is not forbidden. What it is punishable is not accept the duel (So when Sylvannas asks Saurfang "Why should I accept your challenge?". It's basically becouse she can't just refuse a duel, otherwise she's going to be dismissed from her charge. However, from an orckish perspective (Horde's perspective at this point) it is considered cheating as a dishonorable way to fight in a duel. You might win, but from Horde's perspective using dark magics, or any magic on this kind of duel brings a disagreement about leader's honor on this case. This same thing happened when Durotan challenged Guldan and the horde splited up.
Yeah... none of that is accurate. Sylvanas isn't even held to Mak'Gora, technically, because it is an Orc-only tradition, though anyone can participate if challenged. For her, honor isn't an issue, because she isn't orc and isn't seen as "worthy" of the real traditions. She doesn't have to accept and if she refused, it would do nothing to her Warchief standing since the Horde isn't just made up of Orcs alone. There were no terms set in Durotan's and Guldan's duel, either.
I honestly like how Sylvanas fights. Apart from her being capable of parrying extremely heavy blows, the style she uses is very fitting when fighting orcs. See, she is fighting defensive, rather throwing out attacks, she's using her enemies attacks against them. Utilizing her speed compared to the much slower Saurfang and always waiting for him to strike, so that while he is swinging his weapon she can act. It's kind of hard to change the direction of an attack mid-swing, the heavier the weapon the worse it gets, so her daggers, her undead nature, natural elven speed (or whatever is left of it through undeath) and the possible benefits from her unknown magic make it almost impossible for Saurfang to actually even hit her. He did hit her, because he was able to split the sword in two mid-swing, which she obviously didn't expect. So in short, she is pulling the Obi-Wan technique (Soresu, for those who know). Utilizing defensive techniques to a maximum to use the openings the opponent(s) are forced to create when attacking her. The only way to oppose this, is to force her to attack, by not attacking her. Usually the assumption is, that the advantage lies with the one attacking and striking first. This is true, if the defensive one is not prepared. If prepared, the defensive one is actually usually the one with the advantage. - On a sidenot, Saurfang never wanted to survive this fight. His whole theme has become about being denied the warriors death, and here he got not only his warriors death, he also got an honorable death, as he prevented the deaths of thousands of soldiers and the second sacking of Orgrimmar. Saurfang is not the Hero because he exposed Sylvanas, he is the hero because he saved both the Horde and the Alliance this day by preventing the battle that could have cost them everything. (Remember, Anduin said that he had just enough men left for one last attack. Though the Alliance won more battles throughout BfA, the Alliance was far from being well or overly superior in military power. An actual battle at this point would have been at best a pyrrhic victory.)
I love how when Sylvanas shouts, "THE HORDE IS NOTHING," that the undead guard has that look of, "uh oh, she said the inside voice thing with her outside voice..."
See I interpreted that look as essentially 'bitch, what do you just say?" Not all Forsaken are blindly loyal to Sylvanas and see themselves as full members of the Horde, so her screaming "The Horde is nothing!" and was immediately followed with 'You are ALL nothing!" (including the Forsaken). Sylvanas cares about herself and nothing else.
The guy, he's wrong. You can use magic on Mak'gora, if no one said that you can't before the duel started. The rules are told before the duel starts. It is a common mistake to think that you can't use magic or elements, or any kind of shit on mak'gora 'cause thrall vs garrosh, but they said no elements on that fight before it started. Is not the same situation, so she didn't did anything wrong.
I don't entirely enjoy this story because i feel like a huge part of the narrative doesn't make much sense, but i definitely enjoyed your reactions to it (i can't deny that the cinematics are great even if i don't like the story). Can't wait for the Shadowlands trailer's reaction, watching you guys going through all the Warcraft cinematics was super fun!
Actually, unless there are rules set about the battle, anything can be done in Mak'Gora. You can't claim Sylvanas 'cheated' by killing Saurfang with magic, because the original laws of Mak'Gora are no armor, no clothing, just a loin cloth and one weapon of choice. Saurfang is wearing almost full armor, and wielding two weapons. What matters is, they didn't set any rules. They didn't say "No magic, no armor" or anything. That means, it's each against the other in whatever way they see fit to win.
warhammer40k dawn of war 3 trailer Apex season 4 trailer hell blade 2 trailer Diablo 4 trailer Those all good trailers to watch !!! Maybe playing some games will be good idea :)
did you guys drop the warcraft reactions after this one??? there's still couple cut scenes and the shadowlands cinematic. i been checking back few times but seems like you've moved to other games now
Yeah, they didn't necessarily specify anything, if its by the usual no magic rules, then she cheated, but then Thrall cheated against Garrosh in their Mak'gora, the rules are pretty skewed I'd say, at least in the movie the specified the rules beforehand.
5:25 she's not supposed to have any magic at all and it shocked the spellcaster leaders and became the subject of mystery at the time. how and when did she get magic and what kind of magic this is?
It's not new she always had black magic as Queen Banshee, we saw it on her arrows for a long time but it was just not shown before. Except that now its power is amplified all like Arthas, Bolvar and Illidan for example ...
"she is not supposed to do that in this duel" isnt TECHNICALY correct. there are no "standart" rules for a mak gora, usualy the rules are determined beforhand, the only standard rule is that its a 1v1 but in this case its pretty safe to say that there where no other rules so she didnt realy cheat, if magic isnt allowed that saurfang technicaly cheated aswell by using the magical ability of his weapon to split intwo
no one cheated there. learn the lore and u would understand that the rules of not using maigc must be set from both enemys and agreed and all that. it was not forbidden
@@firstcedric8129 Exactly. If you want to say Sylvanas 'cheated' then by that logic so did Saurfang. Mak'Gora is one weapon of choice, no armor, and both warriors wear nothing but a Loin Cloth to make it absolutely even. Not even clothes are allowed. But that is only if such rules are set. There were no rules set for this battle.
in duels not were negotiated rules ban magic, she had the right kill his magic, and here is the that in rules there is ban on carrying two types of weapons this Yes except ( shield and the sword or two blades), this violation of and this not noticed? that
In my opinion when Sylvanas is calling everyone nothing I think that she’s comparing them to N’zoth I may play both horde and alliance but Sylvanas will always be my queen 😎👍
Finally, the old senile remembered the honor at the end of the addon and did what was supposed to happen back in Lordaeron. To do this, he needed only to betray the leader and to force a bunch of representatives of the Horde to become traitors. And what did we get as a result of such an absurd ending? Horde is nothing. I'm not sure that Blizzard was fully aware of the possible subtext of this phrase, but as a result, the Horde really turned into nothing. A strong paramilitary faction, which its representatives were proud of, turned into an absurd parody of democracy. Did Saurfang want this Horde back? Congratulations, he achieved this. However, for many Horde players, this phrase has become sacred. Our Horde is dead. The Horde is now nothing.
@@KingBahamut14 I would gladly accept a third party “against all” if Blizzard provided me with such an opportunity. It would be better to be on your own than to kiss the gums with Alliance dogs and see how the dummy Calia rules the Forsaken.
