World of Warcraft Hit Rock Bottom. | Asmongold Reacts to Bellular 

Everytime I feel like reinstalling WoW, I remind myself to go watch Asmongold's latest video covering WoW and I start making good choices again

"I think that there's also a huge correlation between the game being fun to play and people playing the game." That this needed to be voiced tells all.

The closest thing you can compare WoW raids to in FF14 are the Alliance Raids. But even then, FF does it better. Once you kill things, they're dead for the duration (trash doesn't respawn at all), and there are shortcuts positioned just after the most recent boss you defeated. If WoW could adopt just those two things, raiding would be less of a slog.

played this game since 2004 and I took a break during WoD and came back during legion, bfa, and shadowlands. This is the first time I'm really considering quitting for good. Dragonflight and the drathyr are just not enough to get me back anymore. Game is no longer what it used to be and I hope that for all those people addicted to the game that you can make the right choice to let go of that addiction and discover other wonderful games out there. If your struggling you can do it! Life is bigger than WoW

Wow is like 10+ years behind all mmos, all the mmos copied wow have gone ahead of wow and wow is still stuck in past struggling with trash/food buffs/travel stuff lol

The problem with raiding is that mechanics have got significantly harder over the years, this is due to different difficulty levels. They designed tougher mechanics so that those could be scaled up in the higher difficulty levels, and unfortunately most people suck at some of the simplest mechanics. Mythic raiding and its mechanics should be completely disconnected mechanically from the other raid tiers.

A lot of people over look that many retail players stopped raiding in retail when classic came out… numbers will never be the same as they were before classic came out

I left WoW after doing Sylvanas heroic like leaving a bad relationship... being in a guild doing heroic full clear then pushing mythic for a DECADE and some relationships with players lasting since vanilla. I can just straight not envision coming back to the toxicity and feelings of loss of control when one person needed to do one thing and missed it = raid wipe run back. I used to make friends in the game now it's just everyone tries to find the best of the best because just being slightly casual means you are the worst person in the world. I never missed a raid tier until Sepulchre... not because the raid is bad, it could've been amazing, I just bluntly stopped caring. The lawsuit didn't even factor into it an iota, and I pray they don't write me off as a number lost to that bullshit rather than the stupid fucking daily grind content that made no sense. I am not playing another MMO, I did try FF, Lost Ark and New world... the feeling is just drained from me by Blizz.

"How did Blizzard think the grinds would be fun?" They didn't lol... the grinding part is there to force you to keep playing, not so you'd have fun. Blizzard has this perverse notion that, unless they force you to keep playing to grind character progression, you won't play the game at all.

The main reason I don't raid in games is it takes way too damn much time. I don't want to fight something for 10+ minutes and then wipe and start over. It should save your progress at phases or something. It's no harder to clear phase 1 the 10th time than the first. It's just boring. Your WoW brain thing is so fucking true. My WoW friends just don't play anything else. They've gotten so comfortable that unless everything is just like WoW they won't touch it. I can't get them to play fucking anything else at all.

All raids should have a Stake of Marika before each boss. That was a fantastic QoL feature in elden ring

It really depends if the trash is well designed or not. If there isn't too much of it and it isn't too unfair or punishing I don't really mind. Trial of the Crusader had no trash and players hated it, so you gotta at least have SOME trash I think. I'd say have some trash but make that trash more meaningful and relevant to the boss encounters, like the boss using stronger version abilities from his minions for example. For General Whoever it definitely makes sense to have some traditional trash serving as guards, but other bosses could just approach you, with the trash being the adds during the main fight. Btw why do most enemies just stand around like idiots and wait until you eventually attack them? They should be the ones on the offensive.

Literally every blizzard game is a burning dumpster fire this year :(

And while WoW is struggling with raid knowledge and implementation which should be something they should have MORE INFORMATION, STATITICS AND EXPERIENCE than literally any other MMO at this point due to how long they've been doing this, FF XIV has just released one their best raid tiers yet, both normal wise and savage wise, with a kick ass banger track (I very highly suggest checking it out, it's really good). Criterion dungeons and Relic weapon for 6.25, at a later patch a new Deep dungeon... and WoW is nerfing soar. I do not care what people think in this regard and everyone makes mistakes but, Yoshi-P is a literal godsent, this game would not be what it is without it... WoW needs it's own Yoshi-P or in a few years it'll be swallowed by others MMO'S.

Well the truth is, wow is a very small game. World quests, dungeons, raids. Loop. All progress in the afforementioned cycle will be invalidated in a few months. Everyone has everything that you will and can do because the game has so little to offer.

I can only resub for a month then I quit again. To be honest I usually only play for a week or so then quit. I’d like to pvp, and/or raid, but just can’t justify the relearning time. To be good I have to study the classes etc, I just can’t do it anymore. But, if I had close friends to play with I’d probably play more. But I’m old and friends are not interested.

I'm confused is it a pie or a pizza?? 1:20

Anyone who is still playing Blizzard games at this point, is fighting against improvement

I don't mind trash. What I do mind is "I don't even care to fight whoever that guy is supposed to be" and "the loot is worthless anyways". So yeah, neither "lore" (hello lfr) nor "loot". So why even bother with the toxic people that will make a job out of the fun time? Nope.

Rock bottom? Just you wait when it hit's earth's core

I've been playing wow on/off for .. 13/14 years, everytime I took a break it would take ~6-12 months until I got that itch again. It's been 2 years and the itch is like a blistering wound I don't want to touch and I just cover up. I played for 3 days to hit max level during Shadowlands release and then just went "What even is this? This isn't fun, I'm just wasting my time for a world that doesn't feel like the one I love." and logged off before even seeing the raid

25% actual boss encounter time, 47 mandatory apps required to effectively raid and then good luck finding a group of folks that raid when you're available.

The only thing I'm scared is, that the problems are rooted so deep, that if they want to change they'll need to work on the game from the ground up or basically do WoW 2.

I am sorry ... I know I will get heat for this but I cannot stand Bellular. I have never seen someone get such a hard on from WoW's decline. Over and over again. Ugh. I don't even care about why WoW is in decline. I don't care if it is true, false or in-between. I am just bitching because I can't stand that dude. Thank you that is all.

It s funy how everyone, including Asmon, is considering a mmo beeing nothing else than a raiding game, a raiding simulator, like no other content is important and the quality of a mmo is only related with the quality of clearing bosses. It s also sad that most new players from today don t know that there can be a different content or game play in a game, other than farming and pumping against bosses. We also take for granted a lot of amazing development into the immersion side of a game (story/world/characters design/ music or fun systems, that do not add to character progression).

in germany, there is this saying "schlimmer geht immer", which roughly translates to "worse is always possible" with blizzard, i am convinced they can go much lower still. simply because of their design philosophies and being clueless about whats actually fun to players.

GW2 is so slept on. its such a great game with no sub fees

I was raiding when I literally had nothing better to do in my life. Now I have a family, an actual job, other hobbies... there is no way in hell I can ever waste time raiding ever again.

I don’t raid because you need to have an achievement you get from doing the raid to get in the group. Or have an ilvl so high, that what ever mode you’re trying to do doesn’t actually drop gear that’s an upgrade.

My biggest thing is for such an expansive universe it feels like there's no imagination...

I somewhat really miss Legion. I spent hours on Legion and I loved every second of it.

I swear to god belllualar makes a video with this exact title every few months.

People just never learn, so many people were excited for Shadowlands (me included) and now everyone's talking about how dogshit it is, and then those same people turn around and go "BuT dRaGoNfLiGhT iS lOoKiNg GoOd ThO" DF is clearly going to be another rushed half baked mess that everyone is going to call dogshit in 2 years, maybe even sooner. wow is dead, sad but true.

A few weeks ago I started playing wow again and I'm having so much fun. But the thing is that I don't enjoy doing the current expansion content. I'm playing pretty casually and just farming mounts etc. I would be miserable if I tried to get back on par with other players this late into the expansion.

I think one of the major differences between Classic and retail is the story. Vanilla, TBC and Wrath were all parts of the same story arc, you started in vanilla fighting evils that were basically the lower lieutenants of Arthas, then in TBC we got to middle management, and in Wrath we got to Arthas himself. There was a greater story arc we were working through. From what I've seen, since Cata it's been short discombobulated stories. Here's a new baddie that comes from "random place" and interacts with factions leaders. New xpac, new random bosses. The overall story arc is lost and you just play through the xpac to get to the next. As I see it: Classic = You're part of the story, Retail = You play through the game to get to the next xpac, story is secondary, possibly even tertiary.

Lots of great points. I think an under analyzed aspect is the loot aqusition rate per minute of time play investment. Blizz nerfed loot drops. And removed master looter. Raiding is no longer an efficient means to gear up. So if you played the game to raid and gear up, you would realize it's a bad investment and quit.

BiS loot should be puggable and obtained with minimal friction. Pugging isn't just playing alone, if I'm playing with a few friends, we're going to need to pug content. No one wants to pug sepulcher. 99%+ of video game players that could play WoW would be pugging the content. There's no other video game that you play with a set 19 other people of a similar skill level. No clue why Blizzard doesn't optimize for the vast majority of people playing games. There's so much friction in WoW, it's absurd.

At some point, Trash was as difficult and challenging as bosses. Trash was part of the raid. But with more random loot it drops,

I have played wow on and of for 15 years. If they gave everyone the best gear, conduits and all that shit instantly i would be so fucking happy. Farming gear sucks and has never been the reason i played this game. Having shit gear is like only being able to buy usp in cs go and you have to play x amount of hours and do x amount of tasks before you can buy an ak. Oh and during your usp time you will be facing alot of people who already have the ak and make your life a living hell. The game only starts when you have gear and that's when skill starts to make a difference. Well this is from a pvpers perspective.

I really don't think Lost Ark is as big of a factor as Asmon seems to think it is. Player numbers have dropped drastically since the initial launch spike and - atleast from what I've seen - the game doesn't appear to have had a great impact in the west

I have no intentions of playing Dragonflight because of the continued existence of LFD, LFR, Mythics and Mythic keys. The game scales from /follow afk jerking off to needing a Ph.D. I don't like either. ANd normal/flex/heroic feels compeltely pointless because you know your gear isn't optimal for keys which is considered part of the endgame that is mandatory in many cases that can't even be beaten. Here's what you need: Beatable content. 2 difficulties, Normal and Heroic that is within reasonable difficulties. Bring back the need to socialize in an MMO. TBC, Wrath and T11/T12 Cataclysm difficulties and content availability was perfect, and introduce at least 1 new BG and arena per expansion with a PvE gear overlap parallel to TBC/Wrath - very useful but not mandatory to reach 2k+ How is that a difficult concept? What is the point of re invention the wheel?

Normal dropped so bad because people can't get into raids. Everyone thinks you should all be professional elite type of players. I have sat for long periods of time trying to get in one. I have played since 2006 and elitism is just getting worse the more they are catered to. Also my server was high pop but they offered free transfers to new low pop servers and my server has suffered tremendously. It is now a lownpop server and can't hardly recruit for guilds..

Raids should just have 1 or 2 trash packs before a boss that teaches you a mechanic. You don't lose your food buff when you die. When you die you spawn just outside the boss room. Each difficulty of a raid boss should either include a new mechanic or just buff damage. I think crafting should be a bigger part wow and use portions of each zone as a Timeless Isle(TI). So have 2 zones have TI one being a beginner ilvl and another zone be a harder difficulty. Do this throughout the expansion adding more difficulties that rotate between zones every 2days- 1 week. Have gear have upgrades so for example 200ilvl normal dungeon gear 210ilvl Heroic dungeon 220ilvl Normal Raid 230ilvl Heroic Raid 240ilvl Mythic Raid Each upgrade increases ilvl by 5. So normal would need 6 upgrades to reach heroic raid ilvl, Heroic Dungeon would need 4, Normal Raid need 2, Heroic Raid we will give one upgrade maybe, and Mythic is just best gear. So upgrades can only hit Heroic ilvl. But getting the materials takes time and can get in any content. Make the world be better, crafting important, people can do whatever content they want, more alt friendly, etc.

I've remained a dedicated WoW fan since launch. A few family members are in the business. I've listened to a monumental amount of educated gamers opinions and suggestions, rants, raves, and rages. I'm an old person compared to the players today. Needless to say, I enjoy the fantasy mmo landscape. Asmongold - you are by far the most interesting and educated gamer I've listened to, to-date. My impression is you do this with a great amount of compassion for like-minded listeners. I especially enjoy that your Mom enjoyed gaming. I agree that Blizzard is killing WoW. So much that I've decided to unsub and uninstall. I've never reached this point before. Blizzard is wasting our time and taking the subscriber for granted. I'll continue to listen to your commentaries and enjoy them with much enthusiasm. Game on :)

Be in an efficient guild maybe? We cleared all heroic fated with 21 ppl in just over 2 hours longest raid night. 15 min and 10 min break included.

In the old days all mmos were mostly about the grind. It was mostly the community and the novelty of being online with lots people that made them appealing when they first came out. Seems like the new model for mmos is to rush to the end and do raids to obtain a sense of virtual materialism to show off dumb items. Thats why FF11 has always been my favorite. It's hard, tedious, and overly complicated for most tasks but it maintains an element of being a rpg before a mmo.

Controversial opinion; A well designed game doesn't always equal a fun game. You'll make yourself miserable if you forget to enjoy little things.

Yea that was my experience with legion, it wasn't alt friendly - but the GAME was fun and provided every spec significant unique progression mechanically and also provided unique stories, transmogs and collectibles. So not alt friendly, but instead alt rewarding.

There is simply no reason to play it. They completely destroyed 20 years of lore buildup just like that, which kept people engaged. It's irrecoverable.

I like having the trash when it is also essentially a puzzle to solve getting to the next boss, but also I agree fully once you get to the boss, checkpoint so at a wipe you just start at the boss, the run back is/was always just annoying and a waste of time.

I dont think raid numbers are a very good indicator of general player population. The reasons people stop raiding, or raiders quit isn't the same reasons a casual player would quit. If 50% of raiders stop raiding (Which is only like 10% of the player base, and thats a high-end estimate) I dont think the reason theyd quit are very compatible with the general populace. There are more mount farmers then there are raiders, and mount farmers don't care about things like conduit energy.

Honestly I miss the tokens from WotLK. I felt like even if I didn't get a gear drop I still had the backup of buying a good piece from the vendor.

Having flying taken away and then having hoops to jump through when the expac is more than half over is why I only play the first couple of months of each expansion. I enjoy the leveling up process, experiencing the dungeons and some raids, but when I am then having my time wasted by not having flying and having only ground mounts for the next 9 months, it's unbearable. Having flying taken away is perhaps the dumbest thing Blizzard has ever done, and it coincides with the games decline in the playerbase.

If every trash you killed increased the % of loot quantity and or quality or in some way advantaged you while in dungeons/raids it would be beneficial and encourage groups to clear instead of skipping where possible. Groups would be incentivised to completely clear the dungeon/raid

Video games as a whole are at rock bottom. Its not just WoW. This is why any new game that releases with any remote hype, blows up instantly, as people are dying to get their hands on something new and fresh, only for player count to crash and burn within days once initial hype has died. Tower of Fantasy is a great recent example of this, people I know with no care for the genre, wanted something new to play so bad, they not only downloaded the game, but pre-installed, only to quit the game within days. Most top streamers right now are playing age old games. The top of stream charts is littered with people playing games that have been around for neigh on 10+ years. The top 4 current games on Twitch for example are 1. League of Legends. 2. Grand Theft Auto V. 3. Valorant. 4. Minecraft.

Are we still reducing MMORPGs down to just raiding and nothing else? Incredible.

I'm a collector player. I play WoW to collect mounts mostly. The minute-to-hour gameplay is usually me using flightpaths or auto-flying to my next stop. If they added a teleport system akin to FFXIV, I would save SO much time each week.

I Played WoW From Vanilla Bean Version.... I Stopped Playing When They Got Rid Of Illidan. Plain And Simple. I Loved The STORY Of WoW. Specifically Illidans Arch. I Loved Being An Illidari. But Even Before That Id Been Losing Interest. And Then When They Retconned The Legendary Weapons And All That Crap.... There Really Was No Point. Id Spent Years Building Up My Little RP Based Characters. For Their Weapons To Be Retconned And Thus My Whole Journey Destroyed.....Meh.....It Made It So I Knew I Wasnt Playing It For Much Longer. Not For Actual Story Or Gameplay Anyway. And The Even The RP Groups And Raid Groups Started Going Downhill With Toxic And Unpleasant People Which Further Ruined The Experience. By The End Of My WoW Journey I Was Playing The Same Way As I Started....Alone And Wandering Around Aimlessly Just Exploring The Lands. And Its Sad Cause I Always Found WoWs Worlds Beautiful And I Loved Wandering Around Places Just Exploring Just For The Sake Of Exploring. But At The End Even That Became Unenjoyable Because Of Idiots And Trolls Who Couldnt Just Enjoy The D@mn Beauty Of The Game And Let Me Live And Let Live. So Yeah....You Wanna Know What Killed WoW? Bad Story, Bad Weapons Decisions, Bad Mount Decisions, Bad Raids, And Above ALL That....Dumb@ss People Making The Game Unenjoyable While They Act Like Stuck Up Snob Jerks Or A-Hole Trolls.....And Not The Good Kinda Trolls. X'D Now-A-Days I Just Buy WoW Books And Read The Novels Or Check Out The Art Books For The Various Worlds. I Likely Wont Be Playing WoW Ever Again Just Cause Its Boring. Like I Have More Fun Just Playing BotW And Genshin Impact If I Want An RPG Open World Adventure. Both Those Games Are Beautiful And Genshin Having Multi-Player Mode Is Awesome....Shame Nintendo Doesnt Take The Hint MANY People (Myself Included) Have Been Throwing Their Way Saying How Much More Fun It Would Be To Play WITH FRIENDS And Make Legend Of Zelda Have Multi-Player Options. But Genshin Is Definitely A Run For BotWs Money. Honestly I Think Theyre Using The Same Engine Cause Both Worlds Look Too Similar. But Anyway.... WoW WAS A Wonderful Game. But I Think The Reality Is That Blizzard Is Probably Done With The World Of Warcraft Franchise And Rather Than Pulling A BotW And Revamping The Franchise In A GOOD Way Theyve Deliberately Done Sh*t To Drive Players Away So They Can Just Let It Die. And Its Just Dumb.... Because There IS Still More Potential For The World Of Warcraft Franchise.... And Again I Played The FIRST WoW....Vanilla All The Way!! X'D Like Asmongolds Mom I Was There At Game ONE. And I Watched As This Nerdy Little Geek Game Became A WORLD WIDE Phenomenon. I Watched As People AROUND THE WORLD Became Good Friends OVER A DAMN GAME A Nerdy Game At That....Which Back Then Was The Craziest Thing Ever. And I Have Watched.....As Little By Little....Blizzard Has More And More Ignored Those Of Us Loyal Players Who Gave Them Their Big Break. Little By Little It Became Less About What We Wanted And More About Them Trying To Add Or Change Things That More Often Than Not Turned The Franchise More To Garbage Where Once It Was Gold........ I Identify With Illidan More Now Than Ever..... Because I Have Been Here Supporting WoW For So Long.... I Remember The Beginning.... I Remember When WoW Was Fun.... I Remember When You Looked Forward To Spending A WHOLE D@mn Weekend At The PC With Friends To Play WoW On 3 Day Bingers Of Gaming.... I Remember Writing Little Fan Fics With Friends Where Our Night Elves Became Like Illidan And Then Being Psyched Beyond Reason When Blizzard Announced Theyd Make The Illidari A Playable Race. YES I Was Mostly An RP Player....But I Still Did Raids....I Still Leveled Up....I Still Had FUN.... And That Is What WoW Today Has Lost....The FUN. Its Just Not Fun Anymore....And Theres SO MANY More Fun Games. Like Dont Hate Me....But Frigging FORTNITE Is More FUN Than WoW Now....And I HATE FORTNITE Cause It Straight Makes Me Feel Like Im In The Mind Of The Most PURE ADHD Having Person Based On Descriptions From My Family And Friends Who Have It. Like My Son Has ADHD And Just LOVES That Game. AND Hes Scarily Good At It Actually. While Me....And My Overly Thoughtful And Curious Mind....I Just Get Killed Left And Right Cause Im Just Too Much An Explorer And I Get Lost To My Curiosity And Dont Notice Im Being Shot. X'D But I Have More Fun Doing THAT And Being Laughed At By My Kid For Costantly Dying And Being So Bad At FORTNITE....Than I Have Playing On WoW Now.... *And HONESTLY That Literally Breaks My Heart....Like I Legit Feel Like Crying Thinking About It Because To This Day I STILL Love WoW....Its STILL One Of My Top Favorite Gaming Franchises....Least The Past Games....* Cause I Practically Grew Up With WoW.... Its Been Part Of My LIFE Forever.... It Legit Makes Me Depressed To See It Fading Away.... Which Hurts My Heart All The More Being I Used To Play WoW To Deal With My Depression. I Used To Just Explore The World Of WoW When I Felt Depressed IRL And It Calmed Me Just Appreciating The Beauty Of It And Meeting Fellow Kindhearted Explorers Like Myself. Most Hurtful Though Was That I Had Wanted To Share My Love Of WoW With My Kids.... Help Them Make Their Character Strong.... Watch Over Them And Be Proud When They Become WoW Titans In Their Own Right.... But Neither Of Them Would Want To Play WoW Now.... And Honestly I Do Not Blame Them.... BotW Like Ocarina Of Time And Twilight Princess Brought Legend Of Zelda To A New Generation. And Like Those Past Games It Has Endeared The Parents, And Kids Together In A Mutual Journey As Well As Brought Together People Around The World. Blizzard Should Have Taken A Page Out Of Nintendos Book And Made WoW BETTER....Not Worst....SMH.

43:10 "I can't pug anymore, I can't play the game, I have to be in a guild, I don't have time for a guild." FUCKING. THANK YOU. I loved organizing pugs during Wrath. It was uncommited, but still social. You had a couple of players you knew on your friend list and grabbed whoever else was available, and then you did heroic dungeons, the weekly, and minor raids like Archavon, Malygos or Obsidian Sanctum, *and you had fun doing it.* Was it minor league content? Of course it was minor league content! But it was still a social game, and you still got to get the best goddamn minor league gear there was. Where is that kind of contend now? With a dozen different gear ranks within one patch, that kind of gear is basically now worthless now - and you don't even get to pug it, because you have to use the goddamn raid finder to even access the lowest difficulty raid, and normal mode is too hard for pick up groups anyways. Ask me why I'm no longer playing any endgame content.

The idea of having the raid divided into 3- 4 parts with each having 2-3 bosses and a couple of packs in between like ff14 is the way to go Finishing 1 part a day in 30min to 1 hour was great Not everybody can play 4 hours straight The number of times that we lost our tank or best dps after 2 hours of raiding is uncountable 3 to 8 hours raid is obsolete

as someone who has played ALOT of wow in my days, i didnt quit because of raiding. There were plenty other things that have put me off, beeing able to go raiding without clearing trash or and respawn at boss wouldnt make ME wanna comeback by itself. Wow is ruind. It was an Artpiece - they didnt have a vision so they ended up nowhere. ...nah i take that back, they had a vision of MILKING the playerbase for as long as they can with no regards to gameplay so they did exactly what they came for. F*****k blizzard.

Blizzard's really setting new records! So proud of em!

A lot of players are moving from raid to dungeons, there’s a reason blizzard is doing Esports on these and is the only mmo doing competitions on clearing dungeons. There’s a reason why not everyone reaches KSM, is challenging and is not so time consuming compared to raiding. People gotta stop thinking raiding is the only challenge in WOW. If you push keys you will know there’s a big skill gap. People will be like “oh M+ Dungeons IO doesn’t MATTER, it doesn’t say anything about your skill”, well I don’t want to waste 2 hours waiting for everyone to learn a single mechanic, at least in M+ dungeons if you are high tier player you can easily carry the key and that’s why raiding is declining because people get tired of spending months wiping and not completing the raid.

I'm glad Asmon's here to play the game for us. Thanks Zach.

The problem with raid, is the raid size, honestly this is the first tier in a long time that don't had Cutting Edge. And TBH, it feels good, i'm a 30yrs old guy, that don't have time for teenager dramas, and dealing with asshole officers. I do m+ even if don't give me upgrades, i do coz it's fun. And also don't destroy my free time with my wife. I Strongly disagree that you should raid to have BIS gear, you should raid because it's fun (an it's not right now). They should make better raids, if they wanna ppl raiding. BIS gear for raid from raids BIS gear for M+ from M+ BIS gear from pvp from PVP.

The one question that should be answered: Why did so many people have fun - even made it their primary thing in the game - to play and gear and skill alts. Because nowadays EVERYTHING is so openly "a waste of time". My theory: because "getting gear" and "leveling crafting" is as abstract as the system should be.

Ppl need to stop complaining about WoW. It’s the greatest game of all time. Ppl complain about little shit that makes blizzard rofl for the past 5/6 yrs. They’ve been taking our subscription money for over 14yrs. Taking those hardcore money we spent so they can make their other stupid ass games. If everyone wants to complain then complain about WoW 2. We deserve that more than anything everyone has been complaining for. Everyone needs to rally up n show up to blizzcon and say fuck you! Stop stealing our WoW subscription and making other fuckin games. Give us WoW 2 bitches!!!

"i think it just sucks" thats the punishment for losing, you have to waste your time for the chance to try again. the main attraction of an mmo is supposed to be the world, not raiding

It's finally over. I can close my eyes and go to sleep.

You know there are people out there who will try and use WoW's popularity to try and say that that makes WoW a good game. So what happens when WoW is not the more popular MMO? Say FF14 overtakes it, does that mean that ff14 is now the better game? Edit: after I wrote this I looked, WoW has less people playing it than ff14, so I guess this hypothetical became reality without me realizing it. Does this mean ff14 is now the better game? Then again POE and runescape both have more than both of them.

Trash is inherently required to make a raid experience. The problem is that it needs to be designed better. People would hate raids if they were just boss rushes because the concept of the raid doesn't get a chance to be fully fleshed out. Dungeons need soldiers/minions....bosses need underlings that serve them. A giant castle with empty halls except rooms with bosses feels artificial and fantasy breaking. What needs to happen is an overhaul to the approach towards trash. Give them more of a realistic existence within the context of the raid. Don't simply line the halls with people standing there waiting to be engaged. Have an entire experience playing out that presents itself to the raiders. Have the soldiers/minions actually doing different things within the raid. Have actual encounters designed around spaces and what the minions are literally doing in that space before we arrived. Not just having them stand there lifelessly. This type of overhaul would vastly improve the player experience and turn trash into what it was meant to be. The battles leading up to the final encounter. The stakes slowly being raised. The weight of boss encounter having value added in anticipation.

I think main reason people don't raid is bc there is just no loot. You spend hours in a raid and come out with 1-2 pieces of loot, which might not even be the things you need. So to get a full set of items, you know you need at least 20-30 runs. Knowing that, people just opt out. So while it taking long is one major factor, the reward is the other side of it.

Castle Nathria raid was best for the season/expansion cause the trash mobs dropped BoEs like candy.. the amount of BoE farms anytime Fated CN is around compared to other raids is huge.. never mind the buffs you can get and the minibosses that have like one mechanic to work with.

You got a better chance to get something useful from the vault than from raiding. That can still even be the case if you're in a guild, thanks to auto soul-bounding due to an item having +1 iLvL item but is in fact 10x worse in practice for the "winner" of the item - that will soon become dust or gold. I used to be a pure raider and laughed at "noobs" that push for high Mythic but I now understand they were ahead of the curve or more accurately put ahead of the dive. They weren't as I thought un-skilled, mechanically inept or social pariahs. They were playing for what most I'd imagine what most people play for - LOOT. And to get loot the best way to do that in the current state of the game is Mythics. Instead I know laugh at the "noobs" who raid. Forcing to spend more non-playing the game time than playing the game; not to mention the social drama that can occur and internal favouritism regarding loot distribution (Asmon cough). For Mythics it's apply oil, flask, food, rune and start.

I quit in 9.1, and thinking about it now it's crazy to me that people are still running around in the maw. God I hated this expansion, and it's so satisfying to know that I didn't waste my time sitting around waiting for it to get better.

Trash in raids should drop decent pre-raid-tier ilvl BoE blues with a chance of cosmetics and maybe even BoA versions of items. That would be *exciting*. They should also have weekly drop lockouts like bosses. Then people would look forward to killing them

Hands down, the biggest detriment to me when raiding is time. I simply cannot devote the time to raiding WoW. So, I started savage raiding. We raid 2 or 3 times a week, an hour to an hour and a half. Because there is no trash, and the only prep is food (easily acquired once from a whole tier) and materia. Materia can be done any time and only changes with gear upgrades. We’ve even had impromptu raids where the 8 of us were playing and did some progress in the morning on 5 minutes notice. I can’t play WoW, pure and simple.

Why is ever react some WoW sucks, WoW is failing, the fall of WoW etc.? Does anyone actually like WoW? Why are they playing it if not? I'm mystified about how much focus is on negativity with this game when most of the ppl being negative are still playing. The games just fine, it still haves millions of players, sure it's no longer a cultural phenomenon and the player rates have declined but... that's how it always is and WoW is an outlier having been so successful for so long.

These videos are hilarious.. People who dont play the game would think that problem of retail is the raiding content... while it sucks almost in all aspects lol

Bullshit, nobody cares about trash and running back to the boss. Its good for the Raid when there are more fights then just the Boss. FF14 raids sucks..... if it wouldnt asmon would be playing it rightnow , he quits streaming because he had to play it for some hours ahahaha

Have solo, duo, trio, 4 man, 5 man, 10 man, and 20 man dungeons that any player can solo but difficulty and 'trash' mods increase as more players are added into the group. And find a way to balance. Also with group dungeons/raids have a chest that drops and gives loot separate per player so each person gets a chance to get their own loot or 'tier gear'

Reason I left is the same as Asmon's mom. There is no point in unlocking flying unless it's day one. Also, making the water stryder not walking on rider without an enhancement you don't get until later may be different now, but I didn't get the thing in the mail until I hit BFA level. I worked hard for that mount, and I deserve to have both water walking and a slot to put the don't get dazed thing or whatever. I'll take need to unlock flying by doing the story in each zone and clearing the map because dailies and other grinning is awful when travel time is screwed.

I played every day from the end of BC to mid Cata. I’ve come back for the start of every expansion to see if it’s good. I’ve always kept up with the content as it comes out. Nothing has hit that WoTLK feeling. Everything about it was perfect. The things I liked about Wrath have disappeared completely in most cases from the current game.

It’s a sad day when my limited amount of free time that I’m able/willing to put into WoW makes it impossible to keep up and have fun in anything PvP related which is the one and only reason I ever played it.

Retail is antisocial, you can't make friends, no one talks, Classic is more social, players create community on the server, guilds maintain population for the same reason...friends, is all about the social aspect so traditional mmorpg players will pick BC over Shadowlands and even more will do it with Wotlk.

Dirty casuals like myself struggled with raiding in WOTLK because of how long raids take in general, and here is Asmon saying raiding takes too long. No chance for casuals.

You don't even have to put in that much time into raiding mythics... A lot of mythic raiders play other games too. You just gotta put that 5min extra effort into learning your class. Simple. People just refuse to do that these days.

I played this game non stop from when it came out until pandaria came out and quit, the trash mobs used to be a big part of everything and even by the time I quit they seemed like an afterthought. It used to be fun figuring out how to crowd control and things like that but it became the tank pulling as much as possible and then an AOE fest over and over. That's part of what killed raiding for me even that long ago.

Why doesn't asmon just apply as the game development coordinator for blizzard to save the world of warcraft franchise. He seems to be the spokesman for wow players

When creating your character you should have an option to create a “family crest” that’s personal to you and all of these grinding aspects would be shared among your family crest which you could apply to your alts.

no, we quit raiding because the gear should be end game gear, but you just replace it with timed 5 man gear because iLVL is king and gear sucks since wrath. so why play wow?

Corruptions were one of the main reasons I quit BFA and ofc Classic release. I remember raiding Mythic as a spriest and I was missing a few bis corruptions such as (Chorus of Insanity) and no matter how sweaty I played I could not out perform the other spriest/dps in my guild with similar gear but all the better corruptions…really ruined my urge to compete

A lot of WoW players are like Yu-Gi-Oh players where they're stuck in a bad situation and only defend it because they don't know anything else.

Legion was wayyy more alt-friendly due to the fact that you had different quests/lvling options. Shadowlands has the same daily's and you can't queue for different dungeons after a certain ilvl. it's terrible that they don't let you just Play the way you want to.

Wow should remove subscription, just buy the expansion and cosmetics, dont see the playerbase growing at all, since they actually have competition this time around

I think Destiny 2’s raid encounters are good. The time between wiping and starting the encounter again is probably around 30 seconds, maybe even 10 seconds if you just jump right back in

I am literally not raiding or playing mythic plus because the thought of farming rep for a second legendary to be "meta enough" just fucks me up so badly... Unlocked flying everywhere a few weeks ago and stopped again to hope for changes in dragonflight (coping hard)

So as an accidental experiment, I boosted a resto shaman to 60, bought all 233 gear and a green weapon from Zereth Mortis (agi based staff... oops) and took to healing M+ straight away without thinking about conduits and soulbinds, so zero borrowed power. I had trouble healing up to when I had 273 item level (yes, I eventually replaced the agi staff with an int one). For reference, this was during Fort, Burst, Storm, and shroud week. I was able to get through +14s, but I was really really struggling, even with pretty decently geared tanks. After realizing I had zero conduits and soulbinds, I am now healing +18s a day afterwards and practically falling asleep in dungeons because it is so much easier. Make your own conclusions, but I believe that borrowed power has no place in the game apart from the gear that you earn by running through content.

Raided mythic in legion. Quit BFA after first tier and shadowlands aswell after tier one. I dont see it beeing different this time. Shadowlands looked so good to me at first….

As a FFXIV player, my perspective of WoW is from Asmon’s opinion. What do majority of WoW players’ opinions on trash mobs in boss prog? Is what Asmon saying the reality of general WoW players’ belief?