World of Warcraft: Why Some Players Aren't Having Fun Anymore 

"designed to be thought-provoking" How courageous..

@@acrosswater9041 Haha, you have no idea the amount of times people have pulled me up on that and have said I'm asking for a miracle when asking WoW players to think critically. It's a really tricky one because I want to have these conversations regarding identification, why people feel the way they do and so on, but some people can't remove emotion or are blinded by specific agendas. It makes it really challenging to have these discussions. Some people will hate for the sake of hating and it is the internet after all, so it's kinda a 'come what may' situation. It's really great when people do take a step back though and really think about how we perceive things to be or how we engage with the game. I find it fascinating.

​@@edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers. But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily. People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character. As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me. Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself, it's just And I thought that this video was just going to be about how WoW failed those people, I'm glad I was wrong. WoW has failed, sometimes but I can hardly blame "them", it's a 20 years old game that had to evolve like everyone else. The fact that the game is still alive today and I can see new player is to me a sign that the game can still be fun, it's just up to the individual.​ @edd_TV I'm gonna be honnest, I didn't watch the video when I commented and I apologize for that, I'm just used to the overall negativity surrounding the game because ragebait is the trend for a large amount of youtubers. But I disagree that WoW players aren't able to think critically, I'd say they think MUCH too critically. Taking into account that people rarely just go somewhere to say "I'm happy with how things are". I truly believe that like in most game, the negativity is more often than not a loud minority. Not to say that criticism isn't warranted but I'm so tired of, for example, farming a rare for a mount, go to Wowhead and see people bitching about the spawn being 1-6 hours, saying that it's a shame for Blizzard to make people wait for such things even though those same people would cry if that reward was given easily. People cry about free things, hard things, time gated things, too much content, not enough content, repetitiveness, innovation.. They want the illusion of choice but end up choosing what's best for their character. As another exemple, today I spammed for 2 hours a message to have 3 people help me summon some rares to get an item to summon a big baddy for a mount. I ended up having to pay people to help me because no one was willing to help me. Fast forward a couple of hours, I saw someone in the group finder trying to get people to summon those same rares. I ended up joining despite the fact that I already had my loot just to be nice ! We didn't manage to find people but I told him that tomorrow I'd be able to summon the big baddy for him if he wants, we talked a bit, joked, he thanked me and sent me a friend request. To me that's the most WoW thing that happened this I joined back and it has nothing to do with the content itself. Take my like :)

@@acrosswater9041 Haha, that's absolutely fine. I appreciate your honesty and taking the time to type this up! I see where you're coming from there and I very much agree with you in that sense. I suppose maybe I'm talking on more of a deeper level, like looking inside themselves and asking what makes them feel happy or fulfilled or why they do the things they do. I think players generally speaking are very critical and in turn that has made WoW not a nice place to be at times with the toxicity and gatekeeping that exists within the game. It isn't everywhere, but it does exist. I think you have summed it up perfectly in a sense. Blizzard won't ever get to win because whatever happens players are going to moan regardless. There isn't one giant tick box that satisfies everybody and players looooove to complain. That makes me sad that you had to pay people to help you. That's really commendable of you to help somebody else and the game needs more players like you. Manners and kindness cost absolutely nothing. That story was really heart-warming and definitely gives me the feels of days gone by. Thanks again for taking the time to type this up, it was a great read. And thank you for engaging with the video and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate that.

It's all about identification. The game is for sure demanding but some of it is just self-inflicted these days.

@@edd_TV so the game isnt demanding... you must tyranize yourself instead while every tom dick and harry takes the easy way around. Just because people gravitate towards the path of least resistance doesnt mean that its more fun than whe there was more resistance. and by offering someone an easy route or a fun route, you essentially poison the fun route because you are asking someone to handicap themselves to have fun and the very act of having to do that makes the challenge unfun because you arent competing with all players in said challenge but you are the one whos actually expected to punish himself just to feel something again... Modern wow is DEGENERATE and you have to be blind not to recognize that.

I felt the same during Shadowlands. There were obviously so many dark points about Shadowlands, but I was progging Castle Nathria and we were about 8/10M and I just thought to myself 'What's the point? I'm not enjoying this.' I just felt compelled to play, it was so routine to me and I really had to break that cycle. I'm so jealous of your collections! I'm sitting around 34k-ish achievement points and just got the 500 mounts achievement courtesy of WoW Remix! It's great you had the awareness to make the changes needed to find happiness within the game still. Identifying the problem can sometimes be the hardest part. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

That's a very healthy and sensible way of looking at it. I can't really sum it up better. I think fomo is a big part of it all too. If something stops being fun then you absolutely should take a break, but some people feel as though they have to continue otherwise they may miss out on certain rewards etc.

hey, guess what, most people who quit do exactly that, they dont play because theyre not having fun.

Shadowlands was extremely jarring. I can understand where you're coming from there and I empathise. I played WoW primarily for the story. I wasn't a roleplayer but I loved the story and it was hugely important to me. I can relate to what you're saying with Dragonflight too. I tried to invest myself in it but something felt off, and I can't quite figure out what. I don't want to put it down to being a 'story for children' or 'disney' or something like that. I just didn't feel the story was remotely gripping. Maybe it was the Dragon Aspects. It's really hard to say. I think you are bang on the money with the MCU correlations. A lot of people preferred it when it was heavy metal. If you read this reply, I recommend you check out my video 'The Mourned Identity'. I think you will relate a lot! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!

It's really amazing, isn't it? I've had the same questions. I've even had conversations with my mother who remembers buying World of Warcraft Game Cards for me when I was a teenager. It's honestly incredible the game is still going and thriving more than ever with various versions these days! It's a massive part of our lives. I think that's really great that your family have grown to love the game too. You'll create some great memories together! You're absolutely right. It's all about having fun and if you don't like it, you can take a break or play something else! I think sometimes people struggle with identification and why they aren't enjoying things like they used to. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences. It was a very heart-warming read!

I'm glad you recognised it! Thanks for watching!

@@edd_TV it's the only game I've played as much as WoW lol Wish it had gained more attention in North America. Such a pleasant surprise to hear it in your video. I was brought here by Pyromancer, he just covered it on stream btw

@@hyperstimmed I have so much love for RO! I was a Blacksmith! I used to love setting up my shop in Prontera and just chatting and meeting new people. Such timeless memories. Oh that's really kind of him! I hope it was enjoyed. Thank you for engaging with the video, I appreciate that!

Big up Everlasted! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and memories Tev!

I think that's very important. It's so tricky these days because there is so much stuff that exists and we consume so much via social media for example. It's really difficult to stay spoiler free in anything. It really ruins a lot of the mystique and this is something players are so critical of. They want the mystery and the adventure, but everything is already out there ready to be consumed or read up on. I think that's a really commendable way to play. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!

Glad it resonated with you so well! Thanks for watching!

Glad to hear it resonated well with you. Thanks for watching!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your experiences! I think you said it best with 'Different strokes for different folks.' There really isn't a 'one size fits all' for something like this, and we're all so very different and have fun in different ways. I really appreciate your engagement and support with the video. Your passion is admirable and I love the way you speak of the game. Thanks again! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Thank you for the support!

I think so too. I think you can make anything fun with the right people!

I think levelling in classic is one of the most satisfying things the game has to offer. It's definitely my favourite part of classic. That's a big goal you have planned!

I think that's the best mentality to have, Luke. I think we have all been guilty of going really hard at WoW at one point in our lives, and I don't think we regret it either! But it obviously wasn't sustainable as we grew older. I feel the same as you do. Whilst I still enjoy pushing keys in retail and so on, I very much do just want to do what I want to do; farm achievements, collect things etc. I think your final sentence as well is extremely important and I think it's something a lot of WoW players struggle with. They feel compelled to play the game regardless of what state or shape its in and won't play anything else. It's something I think FFXIV does really well. FFXIV and Square Enix will encourage you to take breaks and play other games, whereas the philosophy of WoW appears to be more fomo so you feel stuck. There are so many great games out there right now, I shamefully still need to start FF7 Rebirth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings, as always!

@@edd_TV Funny you should mention it, I think it was playing through FFXIV that taught me to savour the experience of simply just playing. It sounds daft to say it out loud, but it is something we need to remind ourselves about, that games are supposed to be fun and that our idea of fun changes over the years. I've only just gotten around to playing the first FF7R game, thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm stubbornly waiting for the Steam release for Rebirth!

@@LukeStrife I definitely have plans to release a video about that in the future about how FFXIV changed my perspective of how I play/played WoW. I think XIV changes a lot of people's perspectives on other games! Glad to hear you're having a blast with FF7R!

That's really great. You can relive your old memories and create new ones with your family! Thanks for sharing!

I also several years ago started with WOTLK era and cata those were golden times

I very much agree with you. I encountered the exact same problems/challenges, it's hard to find the correct word. It is just life I think. The world absolutely did change though and it's important we acknowledge that. It's not possible to point the blame at one individual thing I think, it's a combination of a lot of different things that ultimately changed everything forever. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and your memories with the game!

Really, really great comment. You have summed up everything really well here. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings.

I quit Shadowlands during 9.1 but I came back during the end for the Fated stuff and definitely enjoyed it more. Especially because they began the new formula with bringing other Mythic+ dungeons into play, that was a really smart move! Dragonflight provides huge optimism for the future I think. Thanks for sharing your experience!

I agree. The WoW token really spoiled a lot for me. I can understand its design to counter bots, but I just think being able to buy gold really ruins the integrity of the game. The economy got so crazy during WoD and was simply never addressed leaving the WoW token to be the ultimate 'solution', and it's a shame. I haven't had bad experiences with botting personally, but I know how profound it is and I can remember how crazy things were in BFA. It's just not something that is cracked down upon enough sadly.

I played Mythic the most in Legipn. I would love 10 man back as the hardest difficulty too!

FFXIV still feels quite new to me right now as I stared late Stormblood, but absolutely you can apply it to anything!

That's such a brutal truth, describing it as a 'lobby you waited in until endgame'. That's really well said. You make a good point about Engineering too in Classic. It's very sad. Thank you for sharing your story, thoughts and your feelings!

Very well said! I think there is still bags of fun to be had in retail, but it depends on what fun is to you.

I think I was the opposite. I was quite lost in vanilla and just happy to be taking in the world and such, TBC was probably my true first taste of raiding and by the time of Wrath and Cata I was fully established and committed. Legion was the pinnacle for me I think; Legion was when I tried my hardest, and surprisingly probably had the most fun! I'm glad to hear the video resonated well with you, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

That's commendable of you, I respect that. I think it's so important to take in all aspects of the game and not just the typical endgame approach. I do agree with you in regards to Shadowlands. Everything felt tedious about Shadowlands in truth. Reputations have felt poor since BFA I think, possibly even more. I can just remember the reputations being important in BFA for the Allied Races. You are right though. The game is quite predatory in that sense and fomo is hugely prevalent. You can still see it now with the likes of Plunderstorm and WoW Remix. I think both of these ideas are really cool, but it's a shame they are limited time events which kind of force players hands. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!

Glad to hear it! This video isn't calling everybody out, it's more a video essay for people who feel they can't find enjoyment in the game anymore and attempts to explore why that may be. I do agree with you though! Whilst the story has been disappointing in recent years, it has always been the biggest draw for me. And the art team and music has just been phenomenal throughout, even in the darkest times they have been superb. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

@@edd_TV 🎉😊

@@edd_TV Sadly they leaned too much in a soap opera direction, wow lost a lot of musculinity. Even the new Khadgar's face proves that 🤌😂 I recently thought why I like Khadgar so much. And the answer is pretty much the same for Gendalf. Musculonity. Standing for something. Stoiciam, being competent, serving not only themselves.

The music and art have usually been a fixed point of wonderful quality in WoW.

That's fair enough! Whatever is fun to you! Competition breeds excellence.

Very true! You can absolutely apply it to any game. I don't think it's something players should be marked down or penalised for either. We're all different. I just think the prevalence of it all is so grand, and a lot of people are so easy to say the magic and mystique is dead, but don't have the awareness to see that it's their mindset that may be contributing to this a little. This was a really good comment. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and thank you for watching!

That's great to hear. I think community is everything! What do you think changed with the jump from TBC as opposed to Classic for you? I'm totally with you there, I think Dragonflight provides huge reasons to be optimistic and I'm really excited to see what's going to happen with The Worldsoul Saga! The elitism will always exist but you hit the nail on the head, it's all about communities and finding what is right for you.

@@edd_TV At the start of classic I didn't really notice the level of 'tryhard' going on as I was in there with a mass of mates...however when BC came out, there were far fewer friends there. The chats in the general channel spamming hellfire dungeons (LFG) reminded me what I detest; Min-maxing the fun out of the game. Bit like ultra processed food really, it soon becomes crap.

100% agree!

I don't understand that mentality. There's 3 other tiers of raiding. I don't feel like my platinum game in league is worthless because I'm not in challenger. If you don't want to do the hardest content don't do it but what harm does it existing for others do?

@@2o3ief I think people WANT to do the hardest, but the barrier to entry is challenging and unless you're in a well run guild with good admin, it can be quite difficult with 20 people. I think some people are just a bit tired of heroic because it's easy for them, but that bridge to mythic is just a bridge too far. That's just my take on it anyway. I absolutely believe there is prestige there.

@@edd_TV interesting, I just do PvP so cant speak to how stark a gap there is there but that makes sense to me. I always figured it was because people still wanted the best gear in it of itself even if they're not interested in hard content because unlike league this is an RPG.

@@2o3ief I think PvP is different because it has to be competition right? I think I would argue that PvP should be the ONLY competitive element in WoW, but again that's just me. I understanding parsing and dps meters, and it's always fun to have a race with your friends etc, but it does feel like it's getting a bit too egotistical. As far as PvP is concerned, I think it's absolutely fine to go as hard as possible and be as competitive as you can, the goal is to win!

I really liked borrowed power initially, but I think that is mainly because WoD was just so empty. It was a real breath of fresh air for me and I loved dedicating the time to upgrade all of my traits and so on. It reminded me of old skool talents back in Vanilla. Everything we got felt so important and I really felt my character getting stronger. But once it was taken away, it felt so horrible. You make a good point about some of it remaining in transmog form though, that was a saving grace. However, this line of gameplay for several years afterwards felt so horrendous. If it was a one and done with Legion, I think Legion would be held in an even higher regard. Sadly people (rightly so) point the finger at Legion for it paving the cruel road WoW inevitably ended up walking, and it's true. I think enthusiastic communities DO exist but I think they are exceptionally rare. I moved over an RP server after playing so much FFXIV so I'm hopeful when I get back into WoW I will feel SOME semblance of what I feel in XIV. You make some really good points and honestly, I'm in the same boat as you. I haven't purchased TWW yet because I don't feel I need to. I don't think I'm 'over' WoW by any means but I'm just doing other things. I'm currently raiding Savage in XIV, I'm making videos here etc, I'm just content with what I'm doing and very much like you, I haven't seen anything that has made me think 'WOW, I need to play this!'. I thought maybe Delves would be that, but it hasn't blown me away or anything. I'm definitely going to buy it at some point and I think I'll make a video on my levelling experience and what I think of the narrative. I love and agree with all of your points. Thank you for watching and sharing them!

Very much agree with everything you have said. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Did you try Dragonflight? I think you are right. I think we could play the blame game with who or what changed, but ultimately a lot has changed - both the game and us. A lot of it simply comes down to identification. I'm so sorry to hear about your guild member passing away. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch the video and being so candid about your experiences with the game. Your engagement with the video means a lot to me, so I appreciate that and thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

@@edd_TV I was excited for Dragonflight... and haven't played a second of it. That is mainly because of real life, my daughter was born a few months before launch. Though I did level up to 60 during the pre-patch event, but still didn't like how my characters played. It's like meeting up with an ex after a few years just to confirm that while it can be nice to catch up, it was the right call to break up. WoW is still a part of my life, obviously, and I try to keep up with lore, but now it's WoW Classic for 2-4 hours on a Saturday night with my wife and friends just running dungeons and goofing off.

@@WillDawg01 Congratulations on your daughter! That's a great analogy you used there too. It's nice that you're still able to get your WoW fix with Classic, however brief it may be. Thank you for being so open and sharing your experiences and feelings!

I think that's really great that you play the game with your children! I think your analysis and mindset is spot on. I think you should make that guild too, you would absolutely meet some like-minded individuals. That could be something to look into with Delves coming up in the future! Thank you for your support and your kind words, and thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings and experiences!

I do think life has gotten in the way for a lot of players, but also like you say, it just may not be worth it to some players now anymore. I think you have made the right decision for yourself, and there are plenty of other games out there that you can enjoy if WoW doesn't tick that box anymore. I've heard good things about Helldivers 2! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

It's definitely a bit of both for me. I had fun with my brief stint in SoD. I did Phase 1 and 2 and decided to call it a day. You are right. It's definitely more about this sort of battle-pass/seasonal/fomo approach to make money. I don't think people want the design of Classic WoW to change too much though as they feel that would ruin the spirit of the game.

I agree. Mythic is harder than anything we have ever seen before. I wonder if perhaps they mean the way questing and the open world is now; you can do most stuff alone etc. You don't have the 'elite' quests anymore and so on.

I relate a lot. Some people have just moved on or fallen out of love with it. I enjoyed Dragonflight, but it was a real struggle for me playing it alone. The majority of the people I played with checked out around BFA and Shadowlands was the last thing that could have brought anybody back from the brink.

Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you!

I recommend you check out out my 'Island of Irrelevancy' video if you haven't seen it! I'm totally with you on this. It's such a damn shame that so much of the world gets left behind or becomes irrelevant because the game 'needs to focus on upcoming stuff.' It's something FFXIV has done so well, and I'm hopeful Blizzard can learn of it going forward with the likes of Delves and such. I can't imagine how it must feel for you if you started in Legion, and I really do empathise with you. I really love your thoughts and ideas. There is SO much more they could do with both Chromie Time and Timewalking; Timewalking really could do with a fresh coat of paint I think because there are some great possibilities there! I sadly do think we are the minority in this sense, but I'm totally with you and I know many more are too! Thank you for taking the time to watch this and sharing your thoughts and feelings. I resonated with your thoughts a lot.

@@edd_TV Thank you for your content! Just checked out the video you recommended because it sounded familiar and as it turns out, I have actually seen it when you first uploaded it. Spot on assessment!

@@AlexandarJankovic Thank you! I really appreciate your engagement and it's so nice to hear players share similar views and opinions. Like you say, we may be the minority but we do exist!

That's actually a very good point! I think with both growing up and having a job too only fueled Blizzard's idea of introducing the WoW token. They know their audience well and the age demographic; players are older now, they have less time...but more money. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!

@@edd_TV I love the token, no more using gold sellers.You can't make me grind gold, I would quit the game. Meanwhile my cousin loves farming gold and the token gives her a purpose.

@@nikroth I was initially very much against the idea of the WoW token. I was always of the belief that things should be 'earned', but as time has gone on it does make much more sense. It's also very much just a 'If you can't beat them, join them' philosophy. You can't ever really stop gold sellers. I've never bought WoW tokens personally, but during lockdown I did actually farm several of them so I could buy the Shadowlands epic edition for free, haha. I think that's a good comparison with your cousin too. The WoW token may be for you and it's easy and accessible, and then here are other people such as your cousin who prefer to farm it and earn it. I suppose again it comes down to mindset, right? How do you want to get things done? etc. It all makes you think!

​@@edd_TV Absolutely. There are always services that people buy, in some games it's gold. In others, boosting. People are buying services to get you out of ELO hell in LOL for example. And if there is a weekly gold cap, like in Lost Ark, people make many accounts to sell it... The only working solution is real ID accounts, 1 account per person, and if you get banned, it's over.

Very valid and fair assessment. I agree with you. I need to rekindle my love with single player games as similarly to you, I think I've been in the grind and rat-race for too long. I still love WoW and I'm very excited for the Worldsoul Saga, but there is so many games I still need to catch up on, like Final Fantasy 7 Remake for instance! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

I’m currently on such a nostalgia trip with MoP Remix right now!

This comment is perfect. Really well said!

@@edd_TV we change, not the game

@@flix1179 I think a bit of both, but we have definitely changed more!

@@edd_TV yeah but its the same game in essence, what change is the goal we put in there, if today wow launch in the past, will be the same feeling as today, "the old good days", the days today is the good days tomorrow

@@flix1179 I agree. The game (and the day) is certainly what you make of it, and I think players can often be their own worst enemies without even realising it. I appreciate your engagement with the video and your stance on all of this. Knowledge is power!

This comment cuts deep. You speak a lot of truth. It's a bit of a blame game I think with the optimisation. The players started it and Blizzard drew on that. I think the job side of thing is tough. People obviously want to be the best they can be, but the price players had to pay to achieve this (From Legion to Shadowlands) was really gruelling.

I think a bit of both. I think the QoL has only been good for the game. If you look at people who play classic they use addons to make the game more like retail in that sense, because all the QoL exists in the modern game and they 'need' it. I definitely agree with you in regards to how detrimental things like the dungeon finder have been, as they have destroyed all social aspects and opportunities to meet new players. We have seen this in Classic how people wished to be able to use General Chat or Trade Chat to advertise for groups again, but then people just used addons to form groups anyway. I think a harsh truth is, most people have their groups/friends to play with so this kind of behaviour or philosophy of using methods to 'recruit' don't need to exist anymore, and some people do just lack patience and want to get going as quickly as they can. I think we can blame both the community and as you say, Blizzard for bending the knee in that sense. And I do think they need to be able to do both; sticking to their guns and believing in their philosophy but sometimes also taking a step back and thinking 'Yeah, the players are right on this one'. I think it goes both ways. You are very right though! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings, and thank you for watching!

I think in time Classic+ could come. Turtle WoW seems to be making serious moves with it in that respect. I think maybe SoD is just getting an idea what the players like/dislike. I think we could see further seasons maybe as they continue to experiment. It’s hard to say. I'm going to try Remix soon! I'm looking forward to it.

So very true.The potential was crazy good. I hope they try again with it in time!

@@edd_TV I was hoping that would have been the outcome of torghast with new environments and New enemies on top of that some kind of completely random endless mode.

@@oskardanigsecher9906 I LOVED the idea of Torghast, and when I was watching people covering it during the beta and whatnot it looked really great. I think they have no doubt learned some harsh lessons and hopefully if they attempt it again, they will realise that it doesn't need to be gated by power or incentivisation. It just needs to be a fun experience and if people are interested in rogue-likes, they'll play it! It's an ace in the hole. It's such a popular type of game and I think it's something they can tap into better with more thought and better execution.

Such great memories. It's interesting that you felt this change in MoP. I do recall that was when the increase of dailies came in, but I can't remember feeling like I was going above and beyond with it in Mists, besides The Tillers farm, I was mad for that! I felt like Legion was really asking for a lot, but because WoD was so lifeless I absolutely loved it. You are right though, it's clear to see the design to keep players active. You make a good point too with who Blizzard choose to cater to/prioritise. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

It's not something I would partake in personally, but I have read about the likes of Turtle WoW and such.

You make a great point regarding the activities of Dragonflight. It is a bit frustrating how you can only really realistically choose to do one out several, and you have to make the decision what matters more to you. I installed TomCat Tours when I returned to Dragonflight and I had SO many timers and events just popping off. It was overwhelming as hell. The gatekeeping is super exhausting and I don't really know how you stop something like that. I can relate to the declining of groups as a holy paladin at one stage, and I genuinely think that's why they gave holy paladins combat res, just to try and make them more viable. Good luck with that achievement! I find stuff like that very commendable and it does feel very satisfying when you complete it. This is a really well written comment and your final word is so very true. I think the same can be said for optimisation, if players CAN do it, they WILL do it. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!

That is very true, and that shows with both character development and the storytelling. It's definitely a factor for some players. It feels at times the developers don't understand the characters and there is a rapid change in tone. I still think it's important to acknowledge that growing up was a big part of the enjoyment experience though.

Very cool that you have that orc statue! I do agree with you. The game suffers dramatically from bloat and a desire to get things done as fast as possible. It's an ethos and philosophy that has seeped deeply into the community. It feels like Overwatch levels of speed in an MMORPG, and I just don't think an MMO should ever be that fast or be that competitive. MMO's are supposed to be comfy. I'm really hopeful for delves too; they look like a combination of Mythic+ and Torghast, I'm pretty hopeful they will be a lot of fun. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

I don't think that makes you terrible! Don't sell yourself short. I think it means you have a desire to explore and learn for yourself. I think back to the days of when I was a kid and one of my friends had a walkthrough magazine for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and even as a child,I was so disappointed in him that he wanted to just follow a guide and not figure things out for himself and learn. It's one of the most satisfying things about a game I think.

@@edd_TV especially OOT. What an amazing game.

@@Boredonthejob So true. It was iconic for so many of us and a real foray into the gaming world. Majora's Mask is my personal favourite, but the Zelda games are fantastic. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings!

Oh no doubt about it. I think the products have been below par too in recent years. I can't speak for Overwatch personally, but Warcraft III reforged was a slap in the face. I was really disappointed with it. I trudged through BFA, but Shadowlands is ultimately what pushed me away from WoW for the longest time. I have no issues with Dragonflight personally aside from the story being a bit forgettable like you say, and just not very engaging. I think we keep giving WoW a chance because it's so important to us. We love it and we can be critical of it, not because we hate it, but because of how MUCH we love it and we want it to be great again. It's just important to understand that for some people they feel like they are in those glory days now, whereas some players feel they are truly over with. I would like to be hopeful with the Worldsoul Saga, but we'll honestly have to wait and see. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

So am I. This video isn't targeted for every player. Many people enjoy it, as I state in the video! This video is designed to be thought-provoking and attempt to explain why some people may not enjoy it anymore. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

Thank you! Thanks for watching.

I don't think you're alone with those feelings about addons. A lot of people are campaigning for addons to be removed from the game. I sadly don't think it will ever happen though. Blizzard even design encounters around addons in mind these days.

@@edd_TV Actually, Blizzard can't handle the Arms Race with Addons and they've mentioned they *could* ban Addons permanently. They stopped making content around addons. And it happened like Dragonflight / The War Within. When they mentioned they could do Ban Addons permanently. By changing one thing, I think it's the API or something to that effect. I remember this because of Preach's Interview with Ion Hazzitosiz (sp?).

@@ArmageddonEvil That's very interesting! I'll have to check that out. I do think we have become so reliant on the likes of DBM and weakauras, it really spoils so many encounters. Thanks for sharing!

@@edd_TV No problem, I have a lot of insight from watching videos. Playing my favorite MMORPG, FFXIV. It'll take a while for WoW to regain what it had in the past. That growth to 12 million Subscribers was insane. It'll take a long time before they can get back to that number. Since they have probably much less subscribers than they are showing to everyone. Battle for Azeroth was one of the worst expansions because they had the mentality of the players are the enemy. Shadowlands after that was pretty bad too. It's quite ironic that the Development Team tries to counter players by destroying fun. A Speed Build getting gutted because it was FUN. The Fun Police is Blizzard Development Team for WoW.

@@ArmageddonEvil I don't think it's possible for WoW to ever get back to those heights. It was just a phenomenon at the time. I think the best card they could have played and DID play was Classic. I think Classic is a money-maker forever. They can release Classic fresh and people will constantly return and play it again. It's a deep rooted obsession at this point. I think the Worldsoul Saga CAN get players back and subscriber numbers up, but no way will they ever get close to those Wrath numbers again!

So do I. This video is in relation to those who don't have fun anymore and attempting to explore why that may be. I do state that many people still enjoy WoW more than ever right now. I recommend watching the video first, lol. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

I agree. I think it depends on what interests you too and what you deem satisfying. We all get that dopamine hit in different ways. There is definitely plenty of fun to be had, but for 12 months consecutively? That might be a tall order for some, and there are so many other games out there too. Breaks are important.

It’s all still fun I think, it’s just all about your preferences and your goals. We all enjoy different things and I think it's really great that there are multiple versions of WoW now so people can just play their favourite.

I think it's in for life at this point, which I suppose I don't mind but at the same time I think it needs reinventing or needs to evolve. It's too focused around gear, and I'm not sure if that's just a me problem. I would like to want to do mythic+ but for other things: transmog, achievements, mounts etc. It would be nice if they could provide challenges on certain weeks for instance. It's such a core part of the replayability now, it's hard to imagine it gone.

@@edd_TV Oh for sure, I'm on copium here, I'm a minority that doesn't actually like how we are forced to farm mythic+ just so we can raid. funnily enough I was a big fan of challenge mode however, probably cuz of the reasons you listed, mount/mog/title and once you had done it, you were done.

​@@Hedidit they've been forcing people to raid to get closure on story for 20 years. Turnabout is fair play

@@Hedidit It's strange because you don't even need to raid anymore with something like the creation catalyst now. You can just acquire gear from Mythic+ and convert that into tier pieces with the catalyst, which I feel really conflicted about. I think it's good for casuals to still be able to acquire 2/4set because it's so powerful for Mythic+ and such, but it seems quite damaging to raiding. Outside of the story, raiding to me was always about acquiring the tier set (and of course the community aspect of it all). Now it feels like the only real reason to do the raids is to get the really powerful trinkets you otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Maybe that's just the cynic in me. I agree with you on the challenge modes. They were a nice reward to shoot for but like most things, there was no desire/need to return to them after you had achieved what you wanted.

It's sad but true. I think a roulette system in WoW would be brilliant. I do love how FFXIV keeps the old zones relevant too. I think this is somewhat WoW is trying to do for story purposes but it's very brief by comparison. You are very right. I think both games have a different ethos/philosophy. FFXIV is a story driven journey and WoW just wants you at max level immediately to focus on the 'new' stuff because as you said, the old stuff is dead now and was never built to last. It's a real shame.

Then this video won't apply to you in that sense! It's not a 'one size fits all' video. It's designed to explore reasons as to why some people don't enjoy it anymore. I recommend reading the description and watching it first, as I state that there are many many people still having fun, including me! Glad to hear that you're enjoying it.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was very tempted to play it but I knew it was going to be a struggle.

Haha! He oddly reminds me of Thor with his new look! Whilst a lot of people really do hate the whole 'cry baby Anduin', I'm really excited to see how he develops in The War Within. I hope it won't be too samey and if anything can be a bit more darker and serious.

Haha, I think it's the perfect illustration of how some players feel about the game. Not all though! Some players love it now more than ever.

lol are ya winning son?

I do think they need to get the Old Gods right after how poor BFA was, but I agree to some extent. It’s very stale/samey, but I think the worldsoul saga intends to wrap up almost everything a best it can, and then we'll see that new era of WoW ushered in, hopefully!

Very brutal assessment but there is some truth there. It's a real shame that none of the original team members are around anymore, because I feel that character development has suffered dramatically. Some obviously had to go though, Afrasiabi etc. I feel that the current team just simply don't understand the characters at times, and a lot of people question if they even play the game, because some decisions can be so random and feel very left-field. I'm absolutely fine with the romance/emotive stuff personally. I feel if we can see that in TV shows and other video games, it definitely can have a place in WoW too. But you are right in the sense that we didn't see this kind of stuff 5-10 years ago. It was more of a heavy metal vibe. I recommend checking out my 'Mourned Identity' video if you haven't seen it. I think you will relate a lot to that. It's really tricky when the conversation becomes about agenda and tick boxes, but it's something that players feel is quite prevalent in recent years. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and feelings.

I think having challenges is great, but my mind always jumps to how it's going to come across for new players or players who don't have much experience with WoW. It's difficult too because as the expansions go on, Blizzard have to find new places for them to start; beginning on Exile's Reach and then going into BFA etc. Now it's Exile's Reach into Dragonflight, and I think that might be quite advanced for new players who want to check it out.

Yeah, I agree. It's just the common rule of 'If players can do it, they will do it'. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it does feel quite tiresome.

Sometimes it's the little things! Glad to hear it.

I'm not sure if cope is the right word. A lot of people still enjoy various versions of WoW. The video is designed to just explore why certain players don't enjoy it anymore. It doesn't reflect my views on the game. I still enjoy retail (although I did have issues with Dragonflight's story) and I've played Classic/SoD too and had fun with those. The game has absolutely changed and I agree that the RPG elements have been swept aside. I agree with your thoughts on SoD and a WoW 2 seems inevitable. I think it will hinge on how well the Worldsoul Saga performs. I definitely stand with you in the camp of banning addons at this point. The 'woke' stuff is a difficult conversation because of the world we live in today. I talk about this in another video of mine 'The Mourned Identity' if you're interested in checking that out. WoW used to be this sort of 'heavy metal' MMO and it feels like its lost that. I have no issues with emotion in WoW or being made to feel something, but I do understand where you're coming from and I know you're not alone with these thoughts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings!

@@edd_TV Thanks for the kind response! :) In terms of what I mean by woke I do not mean that I can't feel emotion or that quests should be emotionless. What I mean is that World of Warcraft (like many other games) used to be an escape from the real world, now you are reminded by it. And modern sensibilities change all the time. One particular thing is that classic at times is more woke than modern retail. While a trans character in Shadowlands shows that the creators "think correctly" but it does not say anything truly political. It is lip-service. In Classic the Defias storyline is quite captivating. A union striking that threatens the status quoe in the city. I think that World of Warcraft, retail atleast. Is no longer made for me. A shame really since I played up until WoD basically.

@@andrewjackson7511 You're welcome. I appreciate your engagement! You make some very good points with both realism and storylines such as the Defias. I think the Defias storyline is really memorable and slept on! It's very difficult to know who WoW is for these days. A lot of people suggest they are just checking boxes for their agendas and it's more of a machine these days than something authentic. I think The War Within will hopefully provide a lot of answers on this but lip-service is a very strong and valid phrase! I think WoD is a good example to look back on, when you compare what the basis of WoD was and where we're at today, and just how much the tone and narrative has changed. It speaks volumes.

Maybe. We'll see.

I don't play private servers, no, but they are to blame too of course. I would probably say I've misspoken there by blaming retail outright. It's no secret that retail has become a nicer place since Classic started, but it would be ignorant to suggest retail has/had zero toxicity or elitism. It's something that exists in every corner of WoW. It almost feels like a 'chicken and the egg' situation at this point and it was wrong of me to solely blame retail. I of course acknowledge that it exists everywhere. The gatekeeping is so profound in every version of WoW now, and that's so sad. Your latter comment is something I've seen a lot with my friends. Since Classic has come out, they will likely never return to retail again now. And that makes me sad, but I understand it. I think it's good that there are so many different versions of the game and people can just play their favourites.

I still think WoW's combat is probably better than any other MMORPG, it's a real selling point I think. Blizzard have always been known for 'copying' other MMO's too and essentially making better products. Everybody talks about how they 'stole' Dragonriding from Guild Wars 2 etc. I do agree with pretty much everything you say here, and yeah I think Mythic is too much in regards to how hard it is and needing static 20 players. I would never raid Mythic again personally, not unless they introduced a 10 man version of it.

@@edd_TV i tried the free tial during bfa. I started as a dwarf ranger and then a undead warlock. I started with a dwarf and was just standing bored. Then I switched to undead. Still bored. A goblin on a motorcycle passed me by, and it gave me an existential crisis, and I closed the game. The thing is wow isn’t competing with mmos anymore. They’re competing to Fortnight.

@@Hot_SpicyGrill The tone definitely has shifted quite a lot in recent times. I'm not sure who WoW are competing with or if that's something they even think about anymore. Most people would just compare them to Disney at this stage I think.

@@edd_TV Oh I forgot to connect those ideas. Sorry. Multiplayer games and there technolgy have gotten so much better. That the line between a MMO and Multiplayer game is extremally thin and no longer maters to most players. Now Plunder storm looked pretty dope. So we could see combat over haul. I mean why play Wow when you could play on a Minecraft sever.

That is very true with their philosophy of borrowed power and the era of Legion-Shadowlands. It was designed to keep players engaged and subscribed, and it ultimately drove a lot of players away. It's never fun when the game feels like a job.

It's a very tricky subject, but there is definitely a careful discussion to be had about it. I know the story of Dragonflight and the way WoW is perceived generally in recent times has upset a lot of players. I talk about it a lot in my 'Mourned Identity' video if you're interested in checking that out; how Warcraft has gone from being the 'heavy metal' of MMO's to what it is now.

@@edd_TV Its amazing we have to tip toe around it carefully lest we be silenced and censored into oblivion.

​@@DryzualThese are the times we're living in, yeah. I often draw from Disney and Star Wars when it comes to agendas; as a die hard Star Wars fan I was furious with what they did with the sequels. I had no problem with Rey as a female lead, but it was the character development (or lack of it) that really did it in for me. I think it's all about execution. There is nothing wrong with gay questlines/characters in WoW or whatever but a lot of people think it's excessive. I think for me the question is: why are we seeing all of this now? Whether that be gay characters or romance in the cutscenes etc. There's nothing wrong with any of it, but it's suddenly appeared in abundance which leads believe to believe they are just box ticking at this point, and that steers them away from the game.

@@edd_TV The future ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KwwN5kwjAtQ.html

@@Dryzual I forgot about this

I wasn’t expecting a grade lol, but thanks for watching all the same. I’m not expecting nor asking for the core gameplay to change. I have no problems with the way World of Warcraft is. The video is designed to explain why some people may have fallen out of love with it and attempts to explore why that may be. It doesn't apply to everybody and by no means is the silver bullet or means I'm right. This video doesn’t necessarily reflect my views either, which is pretty obvious I would say.

I think there is definitely still fun to be had, but it can be quite challenging for a lot of players for various reasons.

We really are. It's a big part of it, for sure! I'd never sit here and deny that WoW hasn't changed because it clearly has, but our growth, mindset and goals are also responsible for the way we view the game now too.

I think that's an unrealistic expectation given the direction and format of the game. Levelling will never be a long process again because of an expansion's features and Blizzard wanting people to participate in it, but you can still enjoy questing and levelling in any of the zones regardless of experience gains/increases. It all still exists. It's how you choose to perceive it and what you are expecting in return from it. If all you care is is experience gains then that's all questing is going to be for you.

@@edd_TV Delusional. Blizzard employees think the exact way you do, reduced the leveling to a joke and it costs them dearly. If they were right the game would have more players now than when the leveling was long, not less. Classis prooves it.

@@86CorvusThank you for sharing! Some good points. It’s obviously not something that applies to everybody, but more reasons as to why certain players may have fallen out of love with the game. Not everybody is going to feel this way because we all enjoy different things. Some think WoW is great still and some don’t and that’s why they prefer classic. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Thank you for watching! I would be very interested to hear your deeper thoughts, as I know what I say isn't gospel and we all interpret and play the game differently! There isn't a 'one size fits all' and I think it's important that we all acknowledge that. Thanks again for watching and your support!

Deck: 1. Social aspect (old school vs retail). 2. Game changing 3. us changing 4. meta knowledge (wowhead, datamining) 5. running a dungeon for loot vs exploration 6. forced engagement with content 7. streamlining of content 8. classic being time portal 9. ilvl score and death of fun 10. excessive grind 11. optimized gaming Points I would like to add I. content bloat II. visually busy III. community / friends post scriptum: personal story about time, friendship and work.

1. Social aspect (old school vs retail). Social aspect has been without a doubt optimized out of the game. Unless you are raiding mythic 25 or some form of tight PvP premade, you have no to very little need for social interactions. Almost all quests can be done solo, and quests overall have lesser impact on your leveling experience. I'd argue that the game reflects the post-social media world, where gratification is instant and you are the sole hero of your own story. Wow forgot it's roots as a DnD in Azeroth or a hero fantasy from Warcraft 3. There are many reasons for this, but most apparent to name are: level boosts, LFR, no fun allowed class/gear/gameplay optimization, irrelevance of crafting and the endless grind that can be done solo.

2. Game changing 100% nailed, nothing to add.

3. us changing. yes, but! While it is true that us (the wow "boomers") that remember the launch in 2004 have moved on, there are a lot of people in WoW that aren't that old or have the kind of responsibilities you describe. Yet those people have similar gripes about the game irregardless of the rose tinted glasses that some newer players might accuse us to be wearing when talking about Vanilla or TBC. I worked since I was 16, meaning 7 hours of school and 4-8 hours of work, I didn't have the 12 hours to spare to farm something crazy in Vanilla, but while we changed, the pace of change in the game is even more visible. What I would point out is, that while in Vanilla, TBC or Wotlk you had to grind to get the best gear, the time required was nowhere near the time requirement that you have in the game nowadays to get full BIS. This endless threadmill of content is what some people are so put off by, and espouse the virtues of old WoW in lieu of Retail. If you are interested I can offer examples for comparison. What I agree with is that the game was more fun back then because of friends that played, but I will expand on the topic in a later point.