He's saying that intermediate and advanced musicians tend to do too much because they have those tools in their tool belt and wanna use them. It's easy to get excited and overcomplicate the music, which newer musicians lack the ability to do and so they just keep it simple and play what they can, what they know the song fundamentally calls for.
I feel like he explained it kinda bad but in an understandable way. That knowledge can get you really far, and some of those inversions would work beautifully, but its about using your heart and not your ego to make it about the art and not theatrics.
also the majority of todays listeners (maybe even back in the day) want music to be simple which is why open chords, over used pop melodies etc are still mainstream..thats what makes money
Jacob Collier is a good example, he’s obviously a musical prodigy. But i listened to his new album and personally think it kinda sucked, he knows so much he overcomplicated the songs by flexing all those skills and knowledge, and the end result was a convoluted mess
@@notquitehim I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that. Maybe it’s the classical musician in me but I like more straightforward; less convoluted stuff
Exactly, being technically skillful doesn't mean you're a good musician. As a music teacher I see a lot of students, that do not have the time to develop technical skills in school, but shows a lot of musicality and feeling (having a great musical ear).
@@Trubbas That was not celebrated it in my music school. To be able to have musicality and feeling (musical ear) :( Being diligent was held to a higher standard
@@Atlas65 Diligence isn't a bad thing, but it takes much more time than what you got in (Swedish) regular middle high? (13-16yo) musical classes which is 80hrs over 3 years - but it has to cover Singning/playing an instrument/compositions and all nonsens around music like knowledge of genres - and the effect and meaning music has in society etc. You also have a mix of students who can't keep a Pulse if their life depended on it (not literary, but yes, literary) and quite skillfull students that goes to musical school as well, to deal with. So as a teacher I feel I'm compelled to grade the students musicality rather than skill - it's more of a 'blunt' tool but amongst all students you can easily pick out those who are suitable for higher musical studies and those who would maybe be allowed to sing along to 'Happy Birthday'.
@@Trubbasexactly a lot of player stories I've heard where for instance like Phil lynott had just picked up the bass months before forming thin lizzy wtf ??😂😂 the guy was a master at singing and playing. Or great bands that said we didn't know anything so we just played fast ..meanwhile I've been playing for 25yrs and just starting to be proficient at sound, tuning and technique😂😂
This is a case of that bell curve meme. The ‘bad’ musician will play the simple D chord because that’s all he knows, the intermediate will play the inversion just because he knows it, and the truly good musician will play the simple D because he knows that is what’s appropriate.
@@proh3649 it’s not about what it is is not. The question is if you are able to apply it, and you can. The beginner has less skills to with and more confidence, sometimes. The intermediate understands how advanced you can be and try to overcompensate. The advanced has a lot of knowledge and can be okay with playing the normal D, doesn’t have to prove that he’s great. This shows up as the pro players often show less confidence than beginners. That’s one application of the effect.
@@Threghyou don’t know what you don’t know? i remember that This American Life segment, isn’t it actually unsubstantiated, however appealing? rather, it definitely exists as one cause of the phenomena, but there are many other factors that determine how well any given person feels they are or are not doing something?
Even though you're joking, this is a bit true. Highly-intelligent individuals with high creativity actually score lower on IQ tests because they see so many possible answers.
Exactly. The other guys are getting his jobs because he's on such a different level that they just can't understand his genius, man. lmfao. What a sad video.
@@lIlIllIIlIlIIlIlIll Interesting that I didn't think of it that way. In my mind I made more of distinction between musicians and songwriters. But yeah I think the way you split it makes more sense!
@Lolzosaurus nonon ur right too like there's a distinct difference between an orchestral musician and any songwriting both are fine also this dude should've joined a fusion jazz band to use these inversions n such
The difference between an advanced guitarist and an advanced musician. A good muscican doesn't play the inappropriate voicing just because they know it
@@igorspie8241as dissonant and abrasive as nin can be you will find that theres a lot of intellegent choices behind it and it doesn't overcomplicate for the sake of being complex which is what I think the comment is saying
@@richardwarren71- LOL, as someone who’s entire life’s purpose is to get country/Americana and heavy metal to have a beautiful twangy-soundin’, mosh-pit-lovin’ love-child.. I’d, definitely, struggle with knowing which cowboy chords would be most appropriate.
@@XOChristianaNicole hell yeah the best thing I can think of is the ending solo of the song. "The great southern Trendkill" it's go such a heavy and southern twang to it
This is because being a “good musician” isn’t just about skill and technique. It’s about being able to play stylistically/tastefully and know how to adapt. I know too many guitarists who don’t play tastefully because they just want to show off, even when it’s entirely tasteless and inappropriate. Then they can’t take criticism about it, and they take it personally (This has happened to me with 4 different guitarists who “know everything”)
This is why a lot of very technically skilled musicians are just boring. They'd rather stroke their own egos than create something that's actually pleasing to hear.
As a bassist, I feel this 100%. I heard a great quote from another bassist - he said his teacher told him “just because you CAN play it doesn’t mean you SHOULD.”
@@elmarkel3159 fine, how about “As a multi-instrumentalist of multiple decades to include bass, guitar, and brass instruments with knowledge and experience in writing, playing and producing many genres at pro or working musician levels….” Any better? Ever been thrilled by a guy playing a slap bass solo every song for the entirety of the song in a changing polyrhythm for the entire set? Sometimes, less is more in my experience.
do sumn. take a chord. every note, find their immediate next octave. and then map out all the notes and boom you have the next inversion. now do that until you come back at the same shape. memorise where the root is in all those shapes you made. now you can have a different melody line for the same chord.
“You are actually at a disadvantage… why??”: because straight faced technical noodling and music theory isn’t what attracts people to music. What attracts people to music is what they feel when they hear it. You sound like a Tesla owner whining about getting sent away from a classic car meet up. Go mingle with your friends at shows and short circuit about what notes are being played while the rest of us close our eyes and feel it. Womp womp.
@@000PontusLoeksFan000 nah.. sick of dudes like this who have zero feel preaching guitar. Anyone can sit down and learn guitar mechanically and mathematically. The real talent comes when you feel the music.
@@Frank_Fim so confused. you seem to agree with him on all points but say you hate what he says? he was litterally saying that random shredding and advanced chords dont fit all styles of music.
@@Frank_F "Feeling music" is something mostly said by non musicians who have no technical ability. You have to develop technical ability to perform that "Feel" properly.
@@AlexOjideagu2 you’re partially right. Music is not meant for only musicians. So many people who have the ability to feel emotion from music, can’t play an instrument at all. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that people see this guy, or some Instagram player who spends 20 minutes on his hair before making some bullshit tapping video and think that that is what a good player is. When in reality, both this guy and the bullshit tapping guys just sat down and obsessed over theory, technicality and scales and learned the muscle memory and forgot that 90 percent of listeners don’t care about theory. People feel like what they hear. It’s the dead brain type A musicians who look at this guy and think that’s what a good guitar player is.
I'd say you start knowing nothing, go up as you learn, then go down if you have false confidence and start doing too much, then go back up and keep rising after learning how to show restraint and play for the moment. Slash is a good example because while he can shred hair metal guitar solos he's also capable of playing alongside blues legends while knowing when it's his turn to showcase himself and when to sit back for the others. And then when he does play he plays appropriately to the genre and plays bluesy stuff not just shredding as fast as he can.
And only knowing one voicing does not allow you to make choices. I can't think of too many scenarios where the caveman voicing he used is best fit for the song.
This is the worst humble brag i ever heard, you're not at a disadvantage youve just spent all your time working on your playing abilities and never focused on songwriting
@@Insomnia_tic guy in vid is specifically referring to players who develop their technique to the max and never really learn much composition and arranging. actual "good" musicians that do well in regards to gigging should be well rounded in both technique and improv, playing appropriately and fitting the vibe, keeping in pocket with other musicians, communication on stage, etc
I disagree with what he’s saying. Technical ability is a different than artistic choice. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. It’s all about what kind of choices you want to make, what fits the vibe you’re going for. Knowing how to play your instrument doesn’t make you a worse musician, it just makes you capable of more. If they’ll do anything cool with that ability is a completely different skill.
The best musicians didn’t have classical training or school. The greatest guitarists of all time learned themselves. If playing an instrument is all about self expression, then why would you listen to someone else trying to tell you on how you should express yourself?
Ridiculous. You don't need to be educated to play well, but acting as though it puts you at a disadvantage is hogwash. Rock guitar is not the only kind of music on earth.
I'm inclined to disagree with you. Listen to Spanish Classical Music. The guitarists (like many classical musicians) arrest often overlooked because they weren't composers, but to say that classical training didn't birth some of the best guitarists on the face of the planet is just wrong.
You'll never learn anything about guitar, music, or theory that makes you worse at playing. Not having formal training and "playing by ear" is valid, I played that way for many years. I really took off when I learned some basic theory though. Once I learned how chords relate to one another, how scales and chord scales work, and how to understand what is happening in a song theoretically, I achieved freedom to play whatever I want, and can almost play whatever I think.
I think you got your wording confused, what you talk about is not a great musician, it’s a great instrument player. A great musician knows when something is appropriate in the context of the song. Someone who knows the dictionary word for word is not necessarily a good author, knowing amazing words can tempt an author into putting them into their works when not appropriate which would make for a worse read, not knowing the complicated vocabulary is not the solution, understanding the context of the piece is the solution. I think what you described in this video is a perfect example of the intermediate/ early advanced player, they know the licks and they are just wanting to play them, show the world what they can do. Same thing can be said for production, you can learn everything there is to know to make a section sound big, full and powerful, but the best way to make a section powerful is the make the section before it subtle. A film maker learns how to make incredible cgi monsters for his horror films, but he forgets that the scariest thing is the human imagination and the fear of the unknown, the scariest films are often those that tease the idea of something bad, not necessarily one that shows something bad. I can come up with loads of examples, but the point to be made is that just because a tool belt contains a hammer doesn’t mean that you’re going to use it to install glass. If you do the mistake wasn’t having a hammer in your tool belt, it was using it.
So true. I think this is the biggest difference between a good and great musician for me- the understanding that no matter how much you can technically play playing solid basics will always come first. Chord progression trumps shredding, good melody with good voice leading trumps a billion notes, good music production trumps excellent guitar/ bass playing. I think part of the reason musics like this guy above exist is a kind of informed arrogance- we’re told our whole musical lives that “simple” pop is basic and the musicians who make it are uninformed and just lacking in skill. After getting into the pop world a bit myself I see how deeply untrue this is. I’ve met so many music producers who are by far the most skilled musicians (both players and composers) in a room of music professionals- I’ve met so many “genius” guitar players that it’s not even funny, and the best of the best of them play the simple shit but with intention. I think the scary thing is as we get better and better we start to realize the people we’d always looked down on as the lowest of the musical world are actually the highest, and we’re so much worse than them that we ha to claw to catch up. For a lot of us, who are just instrumentalists and not song crafters, this is as far as we’ll ever go.
@@joshuamiddlebrooks3981 definitely a lot of the pop music out there is not the basics but absolute perfection of the basics. I had a project with a mate of mine just after we both left college to write an album of essentially pop songs and see how far we could take them, we realised very quickly that it was far easier said than done. The amount of times we would write something and it was always too happy and cheesy or just not pop, it's a very thin line you have to tread to make great pop music and the ability to be creative within those boundaries is a crazy skill, but you get these people who can do it over and over and over again. I hugely respect the crazy musicians out there, the dream theatres and such, but I respect the pop guys more.
In other words this guy isn't as great a musician as he thinks he is 😂 Your writing example makes perfect sense, I've seen so many poor writers use hard obscure words in order to look smart, but they fail to recognize how annoying they are.
They absolutely do not. Playing just a pentatonic scale (which is what all non theory players do) does not give them more creativity or feel. They all sound exactly the same with some very few exceptions. It's like the people that say rich people don't go to college. Yeah some can make it without a degree but most cant
@@charlesmartiniii1405 Why does everyone talk about note choice like it’s the only thing that matters? People have been making WILDLY different music out of the pentatonic scale forever - talk about dynamics, use of space, emotion, tone, technique, just to name a few things. I think it’s very short sighted to focus soooo much on notes when it’s literally like 1/12th of what makes a piece of music sound the way it does. There is other shit going on than what scale is being used
First time I’ve seen your content- interesting pov, and one I’ve thought of often. I’d say grass is greener , depending on the type of musician you’re talking to , if you ask them. I subbed.
Also, self taught players tend to end up with unique styles, many of which have produced iconic sounds. They play with their ears, so have weird chord shapes and picking styles. Hendrix, knofpler, young, etc etc.
That’s why the phrase “play for the song” exists… good musicians wouldn’t know about that, but GREAT musicians sure do! Practice doesn’t make perfect….perfect practice does! Stay groovy my friends
"less is more, but only once you know what more is." Basically intermediate musicians get caught up on trying to play more, which makes their music worse, but its a necessary step in figuring out how to selectively play things tastefully.
The example you gave is of a good guitarist, a good musician would understand the complexity needed for any sort of song or gig by understanding the audience its trying to attract
I disagreed with the video but found the words hard to come by, despite being well articulated and was becoming frustrated. Thank you for explaining this so I can explain it to my girlfriend 🤣
absolutely. if youre a metal band. shredding and heavy riffs are expected and the main reason to see a metal band live :) where as if youre hired to play pop music its probebly not XD
Very true, that's why I prefer solos with less technical notes and more memorable melodies. A legendary guitarist will find the balance between complexity and simplicity.
Or some of them will just say “fuck simplicity” (like Ritchie Blackmore) and just become an absolute Guitar God. If you want an example of how legendary the philosophy of “more is more”, then just listen to Light in the Black by Rainbow. That is where more… is in fact more.
Theres also the fact that it takes a certain level of expertise to play very simple things correctly and with nuance. A beginner drummer thinks they can play a michael jackson song pretty bang on, but it still sounds far better when an expert plays it. An intermediate drummer on the otherhand is likely to overplay.
@@brandonvu5429 I have a degree in jazz improv first of all. When someone says Dmaj and you add a bunch of extensions it’s no longer just that. Any professional musician with half a brain would know when extensions are applicable and when to play D,F#, and A. His point should be about having good musical awareness and taste. Not bad musicians are good and good musicians are bad.
@@allanlandgraf1773Sorry you had to expand and explain your first comment, it said all that needed saying. There's just always someone who feels the need to comment on something they don't know enough about yet think they know more than the original commenter. This point about playing what is needed for the situation also applies to these people who think they need to respond with something "smart" to a comment that needs no "extension." Kudos on breaking out the theory in your second comment. 😂
One word: "Context." In other words: "Do what's needed for the song." By all means, everyone should play at a high level, HOWEVER, they should understand context to an even higher level than their playing.
Yeah but I feel like that doesn’t exist as much as you might think, in the niche categories and genres maybe but, just because you know how to incorporate tritone substitution into a song doesn’t mean you will, most great musicians just hear the music in their head and plays what fits, when someone presents an idea most of the options go away and you head in the direction that sounds the best not the one that is complicated on paper. Most studio musicians on most records have a vast amount of knowledge in music and their instrument but they play Taylor swift songs, the difference is they play it perfectly with 0 nonsense. Even when they get creative freedom they do what’s best for the song.
imo "jazz" chords don't exist its just false complexity or anything slightly outside realm of positions ppl are used to lol this benchod is annoying as hell
A good belt will impress me far more than the best vocal run in the world. Mariah Carey is a prime example of this over the top up her own arse kind of singing. Whitney Houston on the other hand knew what to sing and when
Beginner musicians lack of awareness for music theory is a gift. They experiment more and find cool sounds that an experienced musician otherwise would have missed.
Alot of the riffs I made up when I was a noob and didn't know jack sh!t about theory I think are better than a good amount of riffs nowadays that I'm more experienced and know more "theory" Melding the sophistication of theory with the purity of the uninitiated musician I think is key to a truly unique sound.
On the other hand, you won't hear beginners exploring the kind of territory that guys like Coltrane got into Either way, musical freedom is a great thing
it’s crazy too cause less is more on a band setting. rhythm and knowing when not to play is best. you don’t wanna get in the way of the bassist and keyboard player. also, you don’t have to go balls to the wall when you get a solo. give the people what they’re USED to. with a little extra flair.
I feel like being a good player entails being good at rhythm and giving what's needed. I doubt anyone will complain if you get out of line when there's space to do so. That being said gigging can be really boring when you have to play so straight forward
"I'm such a good musician, but I'm gonna talk about how it's bad to be so professional just so people won't know I'm full of myself. Look, I can play D major in an infinste amount of ways"
I agree with this but also there are so many musicians who can't sing that well or play anything complex but are still incredibly passionate and can write great songs.
Honestly he’s right. Once I went to school for it I stopped writing riffs. I’ve only recently forced myself to stop overthinking everything and just play what sounds good
You're confusing musicianship with technical proficiency. They latter CAN boost the former, but it can also get in the way if you focus too much on developing it. That's not an excuse to say you have a disadvantage. You've stocked a huge toolbox, now you need to work on knowing which tool is right for which job.
I think a big part is that people neglect really learning rhythm guitar. They learn beginner rhythm guitar and move on to solos. 99% of all guitar is defined by what the rhythm guitar is doing and there are so many different ways to approach it depending on the genre and style of music. Like the rhythm guitar in a Green Day song is totally different from a Bee Gees song. A Johnny Cash song is totally different from a Prince song. And the subtleties of those various styles can spell the difference between an amazing cover song and that really boring bar chord version everyone does when they've only been playing a couple years.
If you know every voicing for D major you are going to use whatever voicing fits the song. That's like saying "Im a car mechanic with too many tools, and when I have to fix something I get confused by how many tools I have"
This is why I feel like so many artists were at their creative peak when they were worse musicians. Necessity mothering creativity and whatnot. When you don’t know there’s a wrong way or easy way or right way to do something your creative freedom is greater.
@@tomybogadjian1487 you don’t understand. Calling someone a worse musician because they’ve never studied theory or because they don’t know how to read musical is not accurate. There’s plenty of great musicians who never studied theory and don’t read music.
Same in the visual arts. The big step you have to take-and you can do it at any point in your journey-is to have an opinion about what sounds good. That will make decisions easy. I have that in typography, for example. I don't go, "Oh, I could do this, this, this, or this, this, or that." I go, "Here's what this needs. Not what I *think* it needs. It needs exactly THIS." Not everyone may agree with you, but conviction makes you fast and powerful. (And I love this lesson, because I've not been able to get there with music. Yet. So thank you for the push!)
Truth. I constantly said I was better before I knew what I was doing. Better songwriter then as well. If I could make something that sounded good, that was good enough. The last song I wrote before retiring was saved by a musician far less experienced than me. She said, "Why don't you play it this way?" and took out all my metaphorical bells and whistles. Tight three minutes that got the tone of my lyrics perfectly.
Music theory goes out the window when you're actually playing. All that matters is how the music feels. Victor Wooten is adamant on playing wrong notes and I couldn't agree more
