theres no way fromsoft will listen.. absolutely zero chance. That said, i 100% agree, and i do not understand people that say git gud. The game would objectively have a better combat system without op backstabs. Edit: many people have pointed out that DSR was not made by fromsoft. So if you wanna weigh in on this conversation say something else.
M Paul but it's.. not. There's an exploit that expands it to 180 degrees but it's impractical to execute in pvp. The actual range is closer to 70 degrees, but it only needs to pass this check on the clients side. It may look like the opponent is giving you a facestab but on their side they did a properly executed backstab. This is a netcode quirk that becomes more apparent with higher latency.
Sagan The Khajiit i constantly experience backing completely into a wall to avoid backstab while heal, only to be turned 90 degrees and get backstabbed from the side
shyguy461 thats a bullshit response, the fact I have to learn a bug so I dont die to a bug just to be countered by another bug and die in 5 seconds in pvp when Id rather uninstall the game is pure horseshit
People who only know to say Git Gud in this matter are conformists who do nothing to improve games, completely ignoring the elephant in the room which is that the PvP in this game is broken. They prefer to be content with themselves knowing that they're good at something than looking it for what it really is.
Yes the PvP is completely broken, from backstabs to TWoP/WoG spamming, but most people I know who bought the game knew what they were getting into and just wanted to experience it as they owned a PS4 not a PS3 and missed out on the original version. Buying a game that in no way advertised a complete overhaul of the game mechanics then expecting a complete rework is an easy way to be let down. Fromsoft doesn't hate the community like some are saying, this game was probably made primarily for console players who missed the original release, since DSFix on the Original is pretty much the same as the Remaster.
Probably seems frustrating, but until you can show your opponent that you can punish fishing attempts then they will have no reason to do anything else.
Trying to wipe out various enemies quickly is still trying and is no less effort than pressing R1 and slashing or 'magicing' an enemy to death with a spell. Either way you attack and the enemy ends up dying. Only that with backstabs you at least get to properly master movement and notably improve the pace at which you can wipe out enemies. I love that.
I miss how diverse the DS2 pvp was. You actually had to use your weapons movesets to fight, instead of simply backstepping or reposting. Also I loved how you could change giant weapon swings without removing the lock on. It was the first game where spellcaster pvp builds were fun and viable. Not to mention the ability dual stance any weapon. The arenas were all very well designed and fun to play around in. The only useless thing was soul memory. But it was loads more fun than ds1 and ds3 pvp imo.
*WARNING* Comment section is cancer, full of DS elitists that have no real arguments and prefer to limit PvP to exploits countered by exploits, countered by exploits. Scroll down at your own risk
Roman Empaia and full of 4 man invader spawnganking scrubs complaining about their lack of skill when someone escapes somehow their stone sword or miracle gank and starts backstabbing them to death since u got no other option, btw random spawns working as "intended".
I think they should make the range and window for backstabs smaller making it a lot harder to actually get them and reduce damage but not as dramatically as you suggest
KeBjg 123 yeah that can be a good idea after they remove 3 phantoms because of 4 man gank, make random invader spawns actually work cuz of spawn farming, remove stone sword and the miracle after that they can change the other problems first
+Jinxed Swashbuckler The main way to win invasions in the 4-man groups is to abuse damage stacking buffs and AOE spells. WoG with Power Within + Sun's Firstborn Ring + Dusks's pixie headband with enough Faith and Darkmoon/Canvas/Sunlight/Ivory Talisman can hit nearly 1k damage and is spammable to clear out gank squads in seconds. Similar setups with ambushes using Fire Tempest, Gravelord Greatsword Dance, Karmic Justice, and Dark Bead also work since most PvE groups and gankers consist solely of idiots or incompetent players who need groups to succeed.
Simply swing a curve sword unlocked to punish those poise backstabers. Or use a spear and a shield and keep distance. Or kick those backstabers when they are close. Or use that filthy TWoP. Or spamming WotG. There are so many counters which require almost zero skills. I fail to see why backstab is an issue in this game. You don't actually need to "git gud". Just "be smart".
This guy gets it. Black flame katana r1 counter stabs unlocked play all ways around it. But i still agree that they shouldnt be so strong that its the actual meta.
I agree sadly. In DS2 and 3, I wasn't ever afraid of swinging because I'd be open to a fisherman's backstab, unless of course they were built for that (but those people generally try to parry bait anyways). In DS I just feel like if I miss a swing or fail to stun with a swing it's riparoni faggotoni.
There is a LOT that would become unbalanced if backstabs were changed. If you want backstab mechanics to change, you also have to rebalance a lot of other things as well.
The real issue here is that the thin balance present in the game would be shattered even more. You either rework all the shields and guardbreak mechanics or you keep backstab this way. For real, in DkS1 shields take a SERIOUS beating, even small ones. Change backstabs and you will find turtle builds almost impossible to deal with except with Shotel and Gold Tracer spam. It would require a total revision of the combat system, PvP AND PvE, because if you change something you have to adjust the rest of the game accordingly. At that point it wouldn't be a Remastered anymore, but a Remake, but this game is the former and not the latter.
I love how sooooo many people were complaining about ds3 R1 spammers and ganks, meanwhile ds1 has the most unbalanced broken pvp system in all of the souls games
JoJo World Order They don’t give a shit, yet they rolled out another patch to fix force buffing after they said there would be no more patches? Yeah, ok.
No, they should not change how the game works so you dark souls 3 players can enjoy it. Seriously go and play ds3 cause it's obvious that you enjoy the PvP in that game more.
Jinxed Swashbuckler Just make them harder to land. That wouldn't make it impossible to get a backstab. Even still, with current backstabs it would be impossible to beat that haha
Raúl Retana bandai Namco didn't make this. They published it. And fromsoft didn't make it either. It was a company that "specializes" in remasters...which is bullshit given the extreme lack of quality of life changes,they could have fixed so many of the bugs that are combat related but nope
Just git gud lol... But in all seriousness I agree 100%. This mechanic renders many of the larger, slower weapon classes, which are my favorite types of weapons, useless in pvp if your opponent knows what they are doing. The backstab mechanic needs to change.
Bo Peters same with 3 phantoms cuz 4v2 situations are complete bullshit thats not dark souls 1 thats casual souls, make random invader spawns actually work, remove stone sword and the miracle then they can even think about changing backstabs.
NucleareWarfare I'm fine with being outnumbered and with even the most annoying of weapons and miracles like Tranquil Walk, because at least you can see these things coming and have a chance to avoid them. It's things like getting insta-backstabbed when, on your screen you avoided the backstab clearly, but you get hit for that monsterous amount of damage regardless.
TWoP wasnt very over-abused back in the days. I feel like id know, considering how prominent i was at meta level pvp I hate that they added 4v1 possibility. I mean cmon, only the smartest players can reliably handle such great odds. I struggle once its 3 or more opponents, and it shouldnt be to a point were 1 player has to face 3+ opponents of equal strength at the same time in order to win. That was a huge gripe i had with DS3, becoming extremely causal friendly due to hosts having such advantages like raw numbers and virtually limitless summoning. The odds should never be in favor of the invader, but 4v1 is a bit ridiculous
stone greatsword and the miracle is more balanced then the backstabs sadly. i personally think the stone greatsword is balanced because you need high trenght stats to use it but it should mayby have some faith too mayby 20 because that would limit the build because it scales with int not faith, making it balanced. and the miracle should mayby need 30 in faith, because i do agree when i say that they can be op, but making higher stats and mayby increasing attunmet slots would balance them more. but backstab is broken mechanic, the stone gs and the miracle is intended, its a reason that they fixed backstabs in ds2 and ds3. another thing they can do is make so the user altso gets slowed. witch it does in ds2
I have been an absolute PvP enthusiast in DkS2, DkS3 & Bloodborne but PvP in DkS1 is just absolute garbage. I didn't enjoy a single match so far. I tried to get into it but I simply can't
playing with someone who is experianced in how to avoid it and teach you can make the game more "normal" again, but im agreing to say that i havent enjoyed a single match myself yet, havent won more then one ether
Backstabs as a concept in every Dark Souls game is probably the single worst thing about them when it comes to core mechanics. Both in how they function and the idea of your character just standing there letting your enemy stab you in the back like an idiot. Even in Ds2 and 3 where backstabs are easy to deal with, it's still an annoying, unnecessary mechanic. It'd make sense as a stealth mechanic, but no, our characters are just too stupid to turn around. It's essentially equivalent to a meter less one-button Super Combo in fighting games that takes 75%-90% of your health away and also has 0 frame startup. NO ONE would play that fighting game. Ds1 is lucky enough to have its single player to carry it. But, if its PvP was standalone, it'd fail miserably. Then there's the lag which adds a randomness factor to the equation. It's a skill less mechanic that trivializes any PvE fight with humanoid enemies and breaks Dark Souls 1's pvp. The worst thing about it is Ds1's pvp would be my favorite if it weren't for backstabs (and terrible lag). It has cool combos, dead angling and a decent build variety (if BS didn't exist). I play fighting games competitively and I've also put in tons of time to Ds1, 2 and 3's pvp I'm also one of the first people to say "Get Gud". But, the people who say "Get Gud" in this case, are the people who abuse the crap out of this silly mechanic.
cool man Das1 does take a lot of skill, even with the shitty BS mechanic it has, there are some ways to counter it, which takes skill. But, the problem with it is USING the BS doesn't take skill. Both on paper and in practice it is just the wonkiest of design choices. 0 frame 90% damage, 1 button attack with minimal recovery. Nothing feels worse than doing all these cool fancy combos and techniques only to be nearly 1-shotted by a dude that pressed R1 behind your back, then proceeds to chain backstab (which isn't difficult at all). Objectively speaking, Backstabs make PvE way easier. Objectively speaking, the reward for a backstab in pvp is far FAR greater than the work you'd put in for it. DaS1's PvP would be much better without BS, since, it would be more about fighting and less about stacking poise, absorbing a hit, and walking in a circle to BS. Or ninja flip to backstab. Then you have the hornet's ring to add to the mix. Ugh. Needless to say, I'm salty about the mechanic. Not because, I lose to it, but because I win with it, especially if my opponent is one of the more honorable fellows that purposely refuses to backstab. It's just an easy win for scum like me. Anyways, I'm just ranting at this point. Not even, directly at you, since i only responded to your first paragraph lol. Although, you did kind of go on a tangent with your comment.
They dont need to remove backsteps,they should only have a smaller angle to be activated like Dark Souls 3 and do less damage when you are w the hornet ring on.
Honestly the bigger issue that's making the backstabs more of a problem than they were during the original release is the removal of dead angles, that was the absolute best and in some cases only eat to deal with BS fishers, but now that it's gone and they can circle strafe with impunity the problem has gotten 100x worse
Please pleaase, listen it’s important. I don’t mind if they changed backstabs however... Dont make it like ds3 backstabs. That mechanic made it so that bs was so bad that it couldn’t properly punish estus chugs and other punishment things such as, running away from fights and re-summoning like a mad man. Coming from someone who is learning ds1s pvp and is getting quite good at it. There are counters to bs but your right they are stupid. But nerfing them need to be thought about more broadly. Possibly making a damage nerf would work but if someone gets a heal off we don’t want them gaining more health then losing after an estus punish as well. The I-frames from dodging opponents in ganks is saved also through the ease of backstabs. We don’t want invasions to be as frustrating as ds3 had them. Remember we can’t judge some of these mechanics until we have taken a long time to understand them. I mean some of us have gone back to ds1 after what 7 yrs? Lets gives this time and thought.
In my experience, 2 people who are equally good at backstabs have to find different ways to kill each other. You'd be amazed at the fighting styles people use after you get past that
Agreed. The other one for me is guardbreaks not giving a riposte which makes shields very strong and compounds the bs issue because its the sure way of doing a lot of easy damage...
Raven of Ash by any chance have you tried using a shotel or something of the sort? Maybe just carry one with you to deal with the turtles. Makes those turtles quiver in their shells.
Captain_Morgan Sure, but you risk being set-parried if they dont get guardbroken on the first hit. Also with some heavier weps like the black knight greatsword you need to cue 2 r1s to guardbreak then get the instability damage. If you stagger the r1 and you guardbreak them on the first r1 they can roll out as the guardbreak window is quite small...
Actually a reasonable complaint. Turtles got buffed with the (probably inadvertent) removal of ghost strikes and dead angles, much more powerful now. Still guardbreaks do put the opponent in a counter-hit state, and there are other options as people have mentioned.
My enemies often backstab me from the future - they didnt even finish running up to me, and their sword is already in my back. But when I stay directly behind them - LOL, SORRY, NO BACKSTAB FOR YOU.
Say what you want, but Dks3, imho, had the best pvp and variety of builds. Yes, I saw passive dark turtle builds, but also mages, pyros and miracle users, Strength builds, dex and quality builds, and also bleed builds before they nerfed them into oblivion. On Dks1R, I only see Oroboro TWOP builds, havelmoms and flipping Chaos blade builds. Dks1 might be more punishing and require more skill, and this is the most common defensive argument used by Dks1 lovers: BUT, no Dks PVP has ever been truly competitive in the way of games like For Honor, Tekken or Battefield, primarily because of the lack of dedicated servers. They're games where people want to HAVE. FUCKING. FUN. And Dks3 was the one I had the most fun on.
Dark Souls 2 also allowed more build variety since people could be at whatever level they wanted and still play with others, so you could very well make a perfect Mage Knight or an ultimate all magic build or 99 STR Double Smelter Sword build and still be able to PVP.
Reaper LUKE Dark souls 3? Variety? They meta there is extremely stale, favoring only quality and strength builds. In Dark souls 1 TWoP oroboro builds are one of the easiest builds to parry and punish + TWoP in general is only good if you catch someone off guard with it or someone is dumb enough to see you cast it and not punish/run away until it wares off, Dark souls 1 has pure Dex/Str builds with 1 or 2 pyromancies, pure int builds, Dex/Str + Int/Faith, crit builds. And all of those have so many options within them in terms of weapons and spells + poise actually works. And each one of those builds is catered to a certain type of invasions ex: ( pure Int, crit. Are mostly found in the forest to 1shit gankers ), ( Pure dex, dex + int. Are usually in the burg for 1on1 duels ) with some builds working in both scenarios ( Str , Dex + Faith ).
Dark souls 3 did a lot of things right when it comes to backstabs, and instead of completely losing out on the critical damage that backstabs gave in DaS1, 3 buffed Riposte damage instead. Ripostes are significantly more skill-based since they REQUIRE either a parry or shield break, and lag makes this HARDER not EASIER. As an added precaution, they even added a ring that reduces backstab damage that nobody uses because the meta evolved beyond backstab fishing years ago.
Yes thank you @PVPSkillz . I completely agree. Backstab is a major part of the game and is a great thing to have but it is ridiculous at times, especially when we are relying on each other's peer to peer netcode for PvP
I don't even have to explain, i agree because it's really difficult to not prove that Dark Souls 1 backstabs are absolute crap. But i really think they won't change anything
Lets just say if this was a scientific study you would only be proving that backstabs play a large part in the pvp. You cant pass judgement on something by calling it crap and then say that your statement was based on objective reasoning. Your statement became subjective when you stated they are crap. That's not a valid conclusion. For example if I say backstabs are trash in ds3 because in meta level tourneys there rarely used then the statement there trash would be my opinion only. Thus saying they are trash is subjective.
If we really acknowledge this as a serious issue, we should make an active effort to contact from soft and their remaster company. "DEMAND A CHANGE " Have a petition. Couple that with a video showing the problem and that's that. If they were to listen at all that would be the best and most serious way to go about it. *LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN!*
You know - when I first bought dark souls years ago I was so excited PvP. Dynamic combat would have worked so well. Unfortunately I quickly learned that I was a complete cheese fest. Dark souls has huge potential but because of back stab I rate it among the worst games for PvP. My answer to invasions is to close the game and reload - that is quicker, causes less of inconvenience to me than getting backstabbed to death by some cock that wasted their time learning to exploit this broken mechanic. I can enjoy the good parts of MP that way.
Best of both worlds in the form of poise backstabs is the worst. Even if you know they are fishing for a backstab, all you can do i backstab back because they'll just poise through you for it. Also while I agree on the staggerlock, there is the toggle escape for those situations. Try switching weapon as you spam roll to escape it. Just need to be aware it might stunlock you and can do it.
In my opinion each game has good PvP and it's objectively impossible to say which one is best like most people on this comment section are doing. That said I personally like DS1 PvP the most, backstabs are what they are but I love technical play and no other game ever reached such technicality with toggles, moveswaps, reverse rolls, etc..(shame they took dead angles and ghost hits, they actually balanced shields) These mixed with the fast pace action was incredible for me. DS2 was never my cup of tea for obvious reasons given the above. DS3 seamed really bad to me at first but I see now a lot of crazy vids of real technical stuff. That said its PvP community really died off quick and that can't be a good sign. Ds1 I think also had the most passionate community, so many different RU-vid figures (Yami, the brigade, etc.) and people shitting on the game like it's broken garbage are clearly ignorant idiots
pietrobarca Every game had a bunch of good mechanics with one or two deadly flaws. Ds1 bs Ds2 clunky moves Bs Parry repost time Ds3 Viability of specialized builds Turtling
I agree and its something that I have had an issue with since dark souls 1. The only people who defend this are people who have rose tinted glasses on or people who think that its fun to play a game that, essentially, only has one mechanic. Whenever I bring up these points to anyone who is familiar with DS1 they say one of two things: 1) "I agree with you 100%" 2) "Yea but you can counter backstabs if you do this exact button combination at the exact time they backstab you or if you backstab them first" they then go on to regurgitate exactly what every other DS1 "high skill" pvper says and list all of the broken "mechanics" (that are actually just exploits and bugs) that can be used to either stop you from getting backstabbed or help you get backstabs on someone else.. It really says something about DS1 when the PvP in all the other games in the series has a healthy mix of weapons, shields, armor, spells, R1, R2, 1handed, 2 handed, backsteps, jump attack, roll attack combos and then DS1 has literally only one mechanic that any of the "high skill" pvpers use. And the worst part is that DS1 has *ALL* of the pieces to be a really fun pvp game, most (not all) of the weapons seem fairly balanced, there is a fair amount of choice of ring and armor combos to choose from and, with the addition of 6 players per game there is potential for some really fun fights, the problem is that its all overshadowed by just how much damage and how easy to achieve backstabs are. Like.. fuck.. why even bother coming up with a cool build when its never going to be anywhere near as effective as just backstab fishing someone? That said it will never change and all we can do about it is to make private fight clubs where backstabbing is shunned and only used in the manor it was intended. These are actually fun and allow far *build diversity* which is not something you will currently find in either DS:PTDE or DS:R.
This right here is why I refuse to play this god damn game. Whoever gets a backstab first wins. Every time. Using a heavy Weapon is basically Suicidal. What upsets me the most is with the other games in the series they changed how backstabs work, basically confirming that they are overpowered and broken. Then they do nothing to fix it in this game. They changed Estus healing for phantoms so why not this? 40$ robbed from you so you can get caught in a chain by every giantdad, minmaxing tryhard in the game. Meanwhile, I'll be using fun weapons and fun attacks in Ds3, where you can r2 without the risk of certain death.
Maybe we should make a petition, get the voices of multiple dark souls RU-vidrs, and a lot of fans may follow. we need a famous person's influence. the least they could do is nerf the damage.
Lol just do pvp on the bridge in anor londo. Backstabs are disabled because its a moving platform. Chug an estus and bait them. They always go for it. One or two hits with a two handed demon great machete and power within, and boom youre rich. Its how i farm souls. Filthy casul backstabbers are nothing but live stock for me.
Dark anor londo is always busy with reds and blues. Also i cannot confirm, but i dont think you can be invaded while youre standing on the bridge itself. I stand off and then hop on after i get the notification.
Some people just don't get the beauty of the mindgames backstabs provide. DS3 PVP was boring because it's just proximity and timing. Meanwhile, when you practice backstabs and fight against another "fisher", it gets really intense and it involves more thinking than DS3's PVP. I know backstabs can be annoying when you first run into them, but if you just admit they exist and deal with it, they can be great fun, especially if you know how to work with backstabs.
Ironically, the game is balanced around its broken mechanics. Somehow the broken nature of backstabs, poise, and dark sorceries balance out in that everything is extremely frustrating and extremely deadly to combat. I guess we could also put WoG into this category.
even if it is useless it is better to loudly decry it on the off-chance it gets something done, rather than take it in silence and ensure change never happens.
Simple answer They dont care about quality They knew this would sell like crazy because of how popular the series is now and took advantage of it with a shitty remaster If you still havent purchased it I do not recommend buying it
Is this not what you want? Are you not a "true fan"? You bought this lazy cash grab remaster knowing it would still have backstab meta. You guys made your bed, now lie in it.
@@phbboss5163 Imagine being a fanboy still butthurt even after two and a half years. I assume that dagger perpetually stuck in your back is still to your liking? :^)
Everyone enjoys a particular souls game for PvP. For me it's DS2. I've done hundreds of hours of PvP in each souls game and completely agree that in DS1 backstabs are just too rewarding and easy to pull off it upsets the balance of everything. In the original dark souls I enjoyed levelling my character up to maximum. One great advantage of this is you avoided getting one-shot by most of these backstab builds. However, you'd still get the occasional person using power within, hornet ring and ninja flipping 24/7 as they try to fish for a backstab. I learned all the counters and could deal with it but you spend probably 2/3 of your time thinking about backstabs and 1/3 of your time about everything else, which isn't great. I completely agree they should be nerfed. They should: - deal 1.5x light attack damage (rather than 2.2x or whatever it is) - have a tiny start-up animation which can be rolled out of (this helps combat slight lag, chain backstabbing and other things like where you backstab someone who just backstabbed your teammate) - add a buff, accessible via spells and shields, which grants backstab immunity for a short time (like the armours in DS2, but not permanent) Those changes would make the mechanic work so much better! When I say "tiny" I mean tiny. Also, they NEED to allow rolling out of gestures. It's so annoying how to perform them close to anyone you need to trust they don't walk in and backstab you!
Maybe I'm stupid or something, but I believe DS2 pvp is close to perfect - the guard breaks, rewarding and pretty difficult (but consistent) parries, good backstab mechanic, every weapon is viable, even magic can be used, the backsteps, parrying with weapons, two-handing weapons - the variety is HUGE. I could go on and on. I would love to see Dark Souls 2 with DS3 graphics and some changes in the boss mechanics. But really, I would hope more people still played DS2 pvp... This was so much fun! And here, we have Remastered Backstab Souls...
White Antelope I completely agree! Demon's Souls is a classic first entry with clunky stuff, complicated hidden mechanics, overzealous punishments and bad balancing. Dark Souls was an improvement in every area with so much better depth but lack of design for balanced PvP and showing inexperience with how important tracking is on enemy and player attacks. Dark Souls 2 gave a focus on PvP, giving the most balanced and rich combat while maybe going too much on the quantity rather than quality of the world and PvE. The added conveniences were a great touch but it wasn't the iconic masterpiece of the first game people were expectant for. Dark Souls 3 brought back the PvE, took the conveniences from DS2 but brought the PvP back to DS1 quality with a variety of failures and far less variety. Bloodborne was a great spin-off. Incredibly rich PvE, great lore and PvP that was a mix of Demon's Souls and DS3. It lacked variety all over though (number of items, spells, weapons, area types, etc). What I want is a game like DS3 with the combat depth of Bloodborne, spells, variety and balance of DS2 and the world of DS1. It's name: Gold souls!
The fact I can kill someone several times but they suddenly pose a threat by simply backstabbing me and not attacking me conventionally And some lag always plays a role, I was able to backstab someone in ludicrous ways due to their lag, and I suspect tbe same happens to me
Easily backstabs, it is not required to stand close to the one you want to backstab and being behind your target is also optional. That's what ruined PvP for me. That's one thing the devs should've changed for the remaster. With that said, let's watch the video and hear what you have to say.
You know what they should have included as an experimental design? A "Back attack" like you hit back and R2 at the same time and your character swings the weapon behind them. Or maybe a "get up attack" where they swing the weapon as they are getting up giving you some breathing room. A remake of this game would be the perfect opportunity to experiment with new features and see how the community reacts.
On the other hand, they only did this to have a bridge over the time-gap that is created by From making "Shadows Die Twice". And if this is really more open-world style and interconnective like DS1, but bigger, then PvP will probably be very strong there with the normal game-world acting as one huge arena.
Yep. They had 7 years and did exactly nothing (wow, the graphics, which still suck - flat trees and a little better connection). How could you expect them to implement changes now?
White Antelope: Well I don't talk about the graphic, they've done well not the best but it is fine. They changed the server and the healing system in the game so why not to expect they will change the combat system. However, they do nothing to that, keep the buggy system, fuck my $40
Of course it does, the map is a bunch of pvp areas randomly stitched together with little context, they sacrificed the solo experience because people complained about DS1's pvp so concentrated on that aspect. That's why the parts people called 'Hard' in DS2 were just Hordes of dudes in armour or Bullet Hell of Amana. You aren't being edgy or controversial with your comment there.
White Antelope it has the best pvp but for people like my self that plays for the pve it wasn't as good as 1 and 3 but it was okay, mainly it felt more clunky and the bosses were far lower quality with the exception of sir alonne, ivory, and fume knight
its pointless to make an uproar now, because we have been complaining about backstabs for years and they only changed them in the sequels, so obviously they know that its a problem they just opted to not change it in the remaster, which is dumb.
this has been an occurring "problem" since the original release. and given how lazy this demastered was, i doubt they'll change a thing. so as much as you new players hate to hear it, in the meantime, learn to counter the backstabs and the whole mind game that has developed around it. i'm sure there are plenty of videos on the different counters and setups, so don't be lazy and complain about it not changing because of your incapability or out right refusal to learn. simply learning about the games animation priorities will help you understand why toggle escapes work and why people parry on wake up to get another backstab. also, i don't think this encourages more of a meta than any other "cancerous" mechanic in DSR, over half the population is gold tracer or curved sword spam that hopes to stunlock. but avast there's a counter to that too. i do not believe that the backstabs in DSR force a meta; you can backstab with any weapon on any build, though admittedly there are builds more optimized for it. just like there are builds optimized for WOG and dark bead spam, but any build can't use those spells. i believe DS and DSR have the greatest most abundant potential capability of mastery of any souls/borne game. there are numerous punishes and counters to said punishes. i think if backstabs were removed or changed in a severe way, all the other absurd "cancers" that the backstab "tech" counters would be the new thing people complain about. just like the removal of dead angles and the now op shield meta. i also don't think changing the backstabs to DS3 backstabs would help either. the omni-directional movement system of DS3 is far more advanced and cradling than the quad-directional movement of DSR. so changing the movement system or patching in DS3 backstabs could break the game and add more "cancerous tech".we saw what happened when the devs tried to cradle new players; we received a bland, linear game that alienated spell users and had a roll spam and shield meta due to the significantly less amount of stamina consumption. in fact, the later souls game mechanics were built off of the jank unintended mechanics of DS. the reason why great scythes chipped through shields was due to the popularity and common knowledge of scythes easily dead angling in DS. the way i see it, there's an influx of new players in a game with players who are already at the skill ceiling and know all the "tech" that's crucial to securing wins. and as a result, the new players are struggling to understand the "tech" and would rather have the game changed to lower the ceiling then progress up to the skill ceiling like the rest of us vets.
I mean with his understanding of how the game mechanics work I wouldn't say he is far from a noob. yes backstabs aren't great but saying that they beat all other mechanics and that if you are fighting people fishing for them you can't win, etc is just wrong, they can be used to fuck up punishments but any good player can destroy someone fishing for them or just trying to use them to win.
I only got the chain backstabs in DSR because it was extremely populated and It now has started to get a bit annoying and I hope that from will notice this and fix it thanks to the number of players bringing light to it
As much as I dislike DS1 backstabs, I still have to defend the system for what it is. DS1 pvp overall is a culmination of poor balancing and broken mechanics toppled on top of glitches and exploits, when all together somehow creates a system with balance. It is completely unintentional balance, but it still somehow resulted with a system where aggression and passivity were equally viable. DS2 emphasized backpedalling more and DS3 made passivity alarmingly good, yet in DS1 aggression could counter passivity. Now in DSR though the changed dead angling and lack of phantom hits has given turtles a lot more advantages, which harms the balance, which is sort of interesting since it is imbalance caused by fixing unintentional coding. That's kinda why I really don't want them to fix anything, because the strength of the system is specifically caused by its problems. It's a weird phenomenon, but one that I appreciate despite not exactly enjoying it. It's not my cup of tea. Seriously though, the amount of tech DS1 has and thus how many methods of countering and baiting there is, is worthy of praise, even if it is all completely unintentional. I suggest checking Kali's videos about Dark Souls tech, so you can see how far this tech goes. The "Backstab Escape into Roll Backstab" video pretty much blew my mind and made me realise there's so much more to this pvp system than it may seem on the surface. In short: Dark Souls 1 PvP is a self-sustaining tower of trainwrecks. It's somehow at perfect balance, despite being a pile of disasters, and it can easily topple if even one thing is fixed. It's better to either leave it alone, or completely change and fix everything.
You are just straight up wrong, there is no possible way to say this game is "balanced". Sure there is tech to help stop backstabbing, but the smallest mistake can still lead to a one-shot.
Yes this is exactly what kept me off from going on with this game. I was so excited about this remaster and going on countless hours of pvp, invasions, etc. But I sadly just ended up going back to DS3 (I have 1k hours there) because I just couldn't believe how game breaking backstabs in DS1 are. I got my char to around lvl 80 and started invading and it was just that: people either just backstab fishing or people with poise builds. Its sad for me but I just cant get myself through that and also the fact that they couldnt include a respec option and I find DS1 very very tedious to remake characters specially if you wanna aim for meta levels (120 ish) which is what I found most enjoyable in the other games. Anyways thanks for doing this man and you should probably start a formal petition and once enough people signed in, send it to FromSoft (or the studio in charge of the remaster) so they can hopefully see how discouraging this is for many of us.
People seem to fast forget that thanks to these errors and mistakes in DS, backstabbing and other features were gradually improved with each game such as DS2. As for why these changes were not implemented in DSR, the remaster was not made by Fromsoft.
As a frequent Forest invader backstabs are one of the main ways to beat gankers who are usually reckless and it helps to punish them. I wouldn't agree with lowering the raw damage of backstabs but try and reduce the bonus damage from the hornet ring, stop the possibility of chain backstabbing, and actually fixing their servers and making encounters not favor the attacker so heavily.
Backstabs gives depth. You have to play the game for a while, and learn how to account for latency, to be able to go into the backstab-game, but basically all there is to it is not to expose your back by improper spacing or getting caught in a slow animation at the wrong moment (bad spacing again). All kind of chains are easy to avoid if you check up how to do it, and the wakeup game has a big depth, its full of mindgames, its easy to avoid getting chained, and trying to chain is a high risk high reward option. All that is needed is that people learn to deal with to latency, and learn some basic tech, than backstabs would not be a problem for anyone.
I feel bad for the DS1 PvP community, seems like an impossible position to be in. A lot of the big voices on RU-vid/Twitch are shitting on backstabs without top players having a similar platform to speak out, so you have this massive influx of new players who already have "backstabs need to be fixed" and "chain backstabs are a bug" ingrained in their heads. I guess they'll still be able to enjoy PvP'ing on the remaster, though they'll have to push back somehow if they want to grow their community.
I'm with Simian on this one, I think people just refuse to learn. The backstab mechanic creates a whole minigame on its own where you fight for that positioning, and just as there's ways to fish for backstabs there's just as many, if not more, counters to those attempts. It's super easy to avoid getting chain backstabbed as well against 99% of players, assuming you look into the techniques. They're not even hard: one example is literally standing still, another is locking on and mashing down + roll with fast rolls or better. It's not rocket science, but it becomes a guessing game once both parties are aware of their respective options. A mechanic can be a huge part of the meta while still being a good thing that contributes to the combat. That doesn't mean you *have* to like it or that it's perfect, but half-assed changes are going to do way more harm than good, and if I were QLOC and I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. One thing that can indirectly "fix" backstabs is to improve the netcode, since a lot of the misconceptions behind backstabs are rooted in not understanding peer-to-peer connections and latency and how it manifests in Dark Souls.
i agree with what your saying but you have to agree that the backstab has a wide range, i agree when he ses that decreasing the damage is stupid, but mayby decreasing the backstab hit box could fix things, IMO
the company that remastered the game started fixing stuff (including the broken backstabs) but then Bandai Namco came and said "stop nothing gets changed"
Dont Blow It Keep It Simple Count Your Money No, I love dark souls. It was delayed for the switch and still doesn't have a confirmed release date. It's just annoying seeing 100s of videos about dark souls remastered when it still hasn't came out for switch.
Everything you said makes sense, there's just one 'problem' - that's Dark Souls, it's the original flavour of the game that people fell in love with. I can't say I'm upset that backstabs are still this way, I'm more upset that stuff like dead angles and ghost hits are gone. That's the experience Dark Souls offers; Dark Souls 2 offers another, and Dark Souls 3 offers yet another, there's freedom of choice.
The problem is that most people, yourself included, are playing Dark Souls 3, not Dark Souls 1. Backstabs are very easy and instant, they can be rough during latency, but if you know how to move, how to roll and position yourself, its not anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Go look up Wake-up rolls as a start, then I'd personally advise looking out for people running at you. If you move behind a person rushing you and go for a backstab as well, you can cancel their backstab (Animation still plays, but no damage). There is also a way you can move to avoid it, but I'm not sure how to explain it in text. A large issue I see in my playtime and in your video is that players are trying to run or walk away (Which you can do infinitely in DS3/2, the reason why 1's stabs are instant is to punish this.). You should be facing your opponent (Like a real fight, you'd never turn your back to your opponent) and fighting them. If you run, you need to make sure you are faster or have a head start. The only real issue I've ever had, is the lag issue. As I said, latency can make it rough, but at the same time, it makes combat rough in general. Hope this comment helps someone out, I get why people are angry, but honestly too many people are blowing it well out of proportion because they don't understand it.
Victim explain why you can be backstabed from the fron of your caracter and that all the need to do is be beside your caracter and press r1 or rb and they can backstab while your running, im in to say that if you know how to move a backstab wont be as easy to get on you, but all you have to do is one little mistake, witch im probably not the only one who is going to say this but under pressure you will start doing mistakes, you’le get backsrabbed and the chain backstab or an r1 to your back getting away, i agree that reducing the damage seems dumb, but making them slightly harder to get isnt the worst idea. in my opinion
I in no way am trying to be rude here, but your post is very jumbled in both structure and point. I'd love to answer any questions you have, but I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Though I can try: The "Beside your character" backstab is caused when someone hits the attack key the exact moment they are in the arc where a backstab is accepted. It can be avoided by moving diagonally away from someone. If done right, you can essentially bait a fisher into wasting their stamina and get some free hits in. If you learn the right timing for this backstab, you can also use it to cancel theirs as I said in my original post. Though a backstab from the front is often just lag, there isn't any in-game way to do it under normal circumstances. The problem with making them harder is that both 2 and 3's backstabs did try. You can avoid them by simply walking away and the timing for punishing anything aside from a parry is very short. This is less a problem because there are ways around turtling in both games, but in 1, there was only glitches (That are now patched) and like 1 weapon that could be used for that. So making it harder in 1 just means that a shield and your two feet are all you need to waste time or get away free. Finally, chain backstabs can be avoided with wake-up rolls, there are videos online that can teach you more about that though.
MY MAN! people seem to forget that this is darksouls 1 but the majority of the darksouls "fans" came with 2 and 3. Darksouls 1 was the real shit where everything was broken and the best way to counter broken shit is with more broken shit.
I hate it too, but I can’t agree with this, I see people deal with backstabs all the time with very different builds and play styles. We ds3 babies need to adapt as they have
HyperSouls So you're telling me that in order to counter backstabs, we're supposed to use a glitch that is fairly difficult to pull off and 90% of the DSR community doesn't even know exists? Lol fuck off
Dude you missed the point PvPSkillz was making in this video and that most of the fanbase has been making since the game came out, I don't think you'll listen if I tell you so instead of wasting time typing more I just invite you to watch the video again and listen to what he says
xTitra to be fair, the legend revolves around r1 stun locking. Thats not really skillfull or fun ether. Infackt, thats exactly why everyone shit on DS3. Also, if just a single build is viable aside from backstabbing, that isn’t really diversity ether.
I 100% agree, if they make the backstabs like DS3 it would make me buy the game automatically. And for the people who don't want the PVE to change... Couldn't they implement it so that it only works like that on phantoms and NPCs?
Backstabs aren't changing. You can sit and whine about how backstabs are the most powerful mechanic in the game, or you can take the time to learn to avoid and punish backstabs. No offense, but if you want to play a game where backstabbing isn't as powerful, dark souls 2 or 3 is the better option.
its not like ds 2 and 3 had bad backstabs, they did a good amount of damage, the problem is that you need more skill to get them in ds2 and 3. i do agree that making the backstabs do no damage seem stupid, he just put that out there because it would be an easier fix to do then to reduce the hitbox for backstabs, pluss fixing the one problemm dosent destroy the game, i mean they basicly took away all the dupe glitches because that was qoute on qoute unfair for player, thats what i assume they did it for, or that it wasent intendet, witch makes sense, but they cant say that it was intended to make your backstab hitbox larger then the ugs swipes. i mean they fixed it in ds2 and 3.
There is no problem though... This game's meta is 8 years old and if you don't like it, just go play something else. It's ridiculous to change a game's meta just so new players can addapt easier 8 years later. I also didn't say backstabs in other souls games are bad, they are just less easy to pull off because you can get away with more stuff without being punished for sloppy play. I honestly don't understand why people love this entire game, except for one single mechanic which is punishing. Conclusion: Meta isn't gonna change, get used to it or go play something else because crying about it isn't gonna do shit!
Alex Price look man, ive been playing this game alot and i can tell you that its fun if you learn to play it. Im not pretending i enjoy the game as it is, because i actually do enjoy it.(check my vids). If you want to put time and energy into complaining about an old game, go ahead. they're not changing anything though, so its a waste of time. If you need someone to teach u how to counter backstabs or backstab chains, i'd be glad to help.
it is a broken mechanic and harms the lifetime of the game. you telling people to play a different game will lead to dead pvp, you want that? By the by i do have knowledge of how to counter it, it is just a playstyle i find boring
Reducing backstab damage by 70% would just make them useless in PvE and only encourage chaining more. And they can't give you a method to escape since the 'whiff' animation of DS2 and DS3 is a new asset, which they said they won't add.
Makaimura 73 its not going to be the same, in this game everything else is op, i dont really mind darkmoon blade 2-3 shotting because that needs skill to actually hit with, but a backstab is more of a thing of ops i got a backstab then aktuall skill, pluss i can bet thet if a new person to ds1 started to invade other new people, out of 10 invasions he will end up getting atleast 3 backstabs witch he will respond with then him saying witch in that case. Is ds more of luck then skill or skill then luck? Anwer that
Easy solution that the devs probably won't do: Change the backstab's hitbox angle from 180° to 60°. Or they can just you know, patch in the Dark Souls 3 Backstab mechanic.
This game has the best PVP. There are counters to everything. Backstabs are a great way to punish sloppy play. Practicing and getting good at backstabs defense is also important. Players should not be able to just spam skills without being severally punished.
333jak333 no. There are of course weapons that counter each other like spear vs curved sword. Dwgr ring is a hard counter to spells. Stuff like that are a few examples. You see a good duel you will notice the players changing out weapons through out the fight as you see some weapons are better depending on what your opponent is using and how much life you or he has. And you have to take the time to get good at all of those styles of play. But backstabs are a hard counter to sloppy play which most new players have and even medium to medium high skill players have. In a good fight between two good players backstabs are indeed there however it's nowhere near the whole deciding factor.
JJitsuBoy98 it was kinda more ironic meant, but my main point is that i dont want backstab to be a thing for sloopy play when you have like you said its a counter for everything, id rather want backstab to be more of skill soo when you use your counters and you mess up like in ds 3 you can get punished with a backstab, i want to enjoy counters and say hey he got s good backstab punish on me instead of. He backstabbed me again «yay» back to the drawingboard
"gut gud" is such a cancerous thing to say tbh. Instead of giving actual advice or acknowledging when the game has something game breaking, you have people saying "git gud lol" and dismiss everything.
Bloodborne did it better than all the others combined, to any that git gud I'd say your probably trash which is why all you do is farm lagstabs. I mean seriously I've been backstabbed by someone I'm facing with my shield up about 5 times now and my internet is 120mb/s so that argument is shit too.
Maybe your getting backstabbed because you're trying to strafe around and backstab with your shield up? Doing that puts you in place to get backstabbed since the other player can just rotate the opposite direction and get behind you. Don't blame the game just because you have little pvp knowledge,
Lol no, backstabs are not op and you just haven't learned or are willing to learn how to avoid them. Try backstabbing anyone smart enough to avoid them and you're going to have a hard time because they're actually applying their game knowledge. This video seems like it's just pandering to an audience of scrubs who refuse to learn and want to call something op or broken so they can feel good about themselves losing to something that can be avoidable. Still don't like the game after that? Well, just play another game then. Oh but this one's getting you views and $$$ isn't it? hmmmmm....
Leo Goutenoir Backstabbing is a game mechanic thats avoidable, it's not some god mode glitch/hack you make it out to be. Just because you r1 spam with your giant dad build and get backstabbed punished is your fault, not the games fault.
It's sad there's so many big voices that trash backstabs but can't break down how they work and make incredibly vague or irrelevant suggestions. I wish they would actually give a platform to some of the top dark souls PvP'ers and get their perspective instead of immediately latching on to the hot souls topic of the day even if it means spreading misinformation and giving the pvp a bad reputation.
Backstabs are the most broken. If you ignore: Longsword glitch Infinite Stunlocks(noob killer) Tranquil Walk of Peace Great Combustion Curved Sword spam(noob killer) Ghost hits Spawn locations Dark magic(noob killer) But no, its backstabs. That apparently 1-shot you. If you get one shot from a BS, you need more health and defense. Because backstab or not, you'll die quickly. Also, if they're so easy, why can no one do it?
If you think so. I think almost everything about DS2 sucks except for: Fashion Souls, Parrying with Greatswords, Guardbreaking, Dualwielding and the changed Critical Animations.
