Would it KILL You to Forget THIS During a Go-Around? 

8:30 as a CFI I have preached this religiously for years. For most light aircraft, flaps beyond 20 degrees doesn't decrease your stall speed appreciably (maybe 1knot at best), and provides no additional lift. 20+ deg flaps is all about drag and steepening your approach to clear obstacles. Becasue of this, often times you don't even need full flaps to land depending upon conditions. In my cessna, she stalls very gentle and benign at 0, 10 and 20deg flaps, but at full flaps my cessna breaks hard in the stall and drops a wing aggressively. Not the kind of behavior I want on landing, so I rarely land with full flaps. Also, with full flaps my Cessna bleeds speed in the flare instantly, giving you no margin for error in your landing, so again, I only use it when necessary. Every plane is different, so read your POH performance numbers, and practice stalls with different flaps at a safe altitude to get to know your specific aircraft.

Can't tell you how many times I've been on short final and out pops a bus full of nuns...

Former Bush PIlot CFI. I taught to push carb heat in BEFORE throttle. That way you wont forget it due all the other things to do after throttle. Also if that is a 40 degree Flaps. Pre 1978 model with under 180 hp, it wont climb in the summer with 30 degree flaps or only one notch up. Manual says on all to bring flaps to 20 after full power. Check if 40 flaps or not.

Great video, thanks! The bus full of nuns at the end was a nice touch.

Excellent video! When I was training, I did both cases: forgetting to bring the flaps up and bringing the flaps immediately to 0 on a go around, and both situations were pretty scary, but fortunately, my training airport was completely flat all the way around. So, I learned my lesson the hard way, but not the REAL hard way.

I saw a video on LewDix’s channel where he had a friend from England visiting. His friend said in the UK, they instruct students to turn off carb heat just prior to landing so they have one less thing to remember on touch-and-gos or go-arounds. I’m not sure it matters one way or another, but I thought it was interesting

It would have been an interesting experiment to test those two items separately to see which is the more important factor. I suspect that forgetting to raise flaps decreases the climb performance by more than forgetting the carb heat.

I like how you didn’t frantically rush with carb heat and flaps like I would do. As someone who has the opposite problem of doing everything too soon, seeing that really helped.

The thing that I have in mind taking out flaps promptly is that retracting the flaps at the wrong time can kill you. Going around and not climbing? You instinctively pull back (slowing airspeed and increasing AoA) and then go “oh, flaps!” and completely raise them while still slow and pitched up and low to the ground (and possibly banking!) and now you’re increasing the stall speed of the wing. Not good.

In Europe they train to shut off carb heat when the wheels touch

My CFI beat that into my head.

My training has all been in 172’s, 1 k model and 2 n’s. Each flap setting has its merits, but I find settings 2 & 3 are generally the sweet spot depending on conditions. Keep these excellent vids coming!

Congratulations on 123 videos, there is something oddly satisfying about that number.

This is good. "When in go around, turn off carb heat". Nice. I will remember this.

Good lesson. Another consideration is default energy management...stuff like Wolfgang's advice to try to hit the tree. Wind management gives us the best relative wind energy. Down drainage egress gives us the most potential energy of altitude without paying a lot of airspeed for it. A default energy management technique that has saved my butt in 11 of 13 engine failures is the basic level in low ground effect takeoff or regular spray run. Airspeed and not altitude is life down low. Consider this especially with the late go around from a bounce or too little runway remaining and the failure to raise flaps and close the carb heat as you demonstrated. Level the airplane in low ground effect. Do not pitch up to Vy until very near the tree. Zoom climb over just over. Do not attempt climbing well over as this will cost more airspeed than you can give with full flaps and carb heat. When low, do not attempt pitch up until zoom reserve airspeed, Vcc if possible, is developed.

You are by far the best aviation training channel its not even close! Also hello from wasilla!

I was trained to turn on carb heat near the downwind/base transition to make sure there was not carb ice but not to leave the heat on during the landing.

I can personally attest to the fact that forgetting to turn off carb heat on an underpowered Cessna 150 on a go around can very easily kill you! I have never been so close to ending up in the trees. After attempting to initiate a go around I couldn’t gain the speed I needed. My wheels bounced on the numbers …. At the departure end of the runway. I bounced over the bushes at the end of the runway, Then mushed in ground effect across a pasture with trees rapidly approaching. I cried out to God to help me and he showed me my carb heat was still on. I had to lift my feet to clear the trees (almost) but thank God, I did not crash.

To answer your question ‘why does the POH state to slowly raise the flaps?’ IMHO, it’s a throw back prior to C-172F models which had a manual (Johnson Bar) flap lever between to two front seats. On those models, it’s possible to immediately raise the flaps to 0 degrees, resulting in a substantial reduction of lift. Hope this helps.

Thank you! This was extremely helpful

Very good as usual, thank you!

I was taught: Power/ Power- Full throttle then Carb heat off. Note positive rate of climb, then drop a notch, then repeat till zero flaps. the clean the lights.

Great video 👍🏻😊

Excellent video Josh. I hope everything is going well for you and your family. Keep up the excellent work. Safe skies my friend 🇺🇸🛩️

Alaska now? Damn! I was going to fly out when it warms up to Okie and meet ya but will wait till you come back or if you come by McConnell again 😂

i've forgotten the carb heat on a go around, and could not climb for Nothing! Many airplanes I've flown cannot climb at full flaps. If you leave both full flaps and carb heat in i doubt you could hold altitude in many planes in many conditions (warmer temps, higher DA, etc.).

Wow... very important information! That would explain why I have those problems on my flight sim.

Very good video. You could have also shown how nicely the plane climbs with the carb heat off and flaps up.

Super vid….I fly an older 172H as well and the POH is mute on questions I have just like this! Thanks for validating my process.

I flew fuel injected 172sp, but in 152s I developed a habit of sticking my thumb to the side to feel carb heat lever in when setting full power at all times.

2:20 older Cessnas like mine DO have "notches", it's called "manual flaps".

I always teach and practice raising last notches of flaps upon "positive rate of climb" too. Max Power Raise flaps one position if in full flap position. Once positive rate of climb established, raise one more notch of flaps. once positive rate of climb established, raise one more notch of flaps. Repeat until flaps are fully raised.

Good stuff, and that performance is in the cold so doesn't even account for the performance degradation of high density altitude in those hot summer go arounds.

I'm training in a Cessna that has 40° of flaps with the actual notches (like it should... i hate the one one-thousand, two one- thousand thing) My instructor always had me use full flaps on normal landing and any go around i push the throttle in and the carb heat off together... then flaps immediately to 20°, positive rate of climb, flaps to 10 then flaps up

Awesome 😎😎😎😎

Once in my instrument training I forgot to clean the flaps out... (going missed on an approach) it was only 10*, but it already make a difference in the performance characteristics of C172 - when in doubt, always make a brief scan of all the switches and think if that's where they are supposed to be for what you're doing!

The safest way to remember a go round, is get it up (flaps and gear) and shove it in, (carburetor, heat, prop, mixture and throttle.)

the beauty of my RV6 is that with power, it will accelerate AND climb with full flaps, however my old 150 would not! on a hot day in a short field, if you leave the flaps and Carb Heat on all you will do is make more noise! you will NOT climb or accelerate! and if you are at or near gross weight, you have a date with the weeds!

You’re doing that in the cold winter air. Try that on a high density altitude would be even worse. But you wouldn’t have crashed into the tree because if you noticed you weren’t climbing, all you had to do is steer 5° left or right of your course and you would’ve missed the tree.

So thats with carb heat and flatps to max.. how is it with just full flaps amd just carb heat?.. great videos, sir.

My 150 has manual flaps and a 40 degree setting. My CFI has me use flaps 40 on occasion but personally I would prefer to only use 40 in circumstances where I need to make a steep approach. Your 172 couldnt climb with flaps 30 now imagine a 40 setting. On top of that the manual flaps can be cumbersome and slow to retract but they can also be too quick to retract. I did a go around at one point from flaps 40, missed the notch for 30 and 20 and went straight to 10. Luckily I didnt let it drop too much and it climbs well at 10 degrees.

And don't forget the right foot when applying the power!

Looks like mat-su valley? Palmer or Wasilla? I fly out of Merill Field. Propper use of carb heat is crucial here. I also fly out of Reno-Tahoe with fuel injected 172's where it is irrelevant.

Such a great video. I just did these with my CFI and on the 172 and I’m afraid of raising the flaps too many notches on the go-around . It’s like I can’t feel the click of the flaps to know what setting it’s on and I’m so focused on the other tasks. Just need more reps. Anyone else feel that way about the flap lever?

I'm currently in college, no rotc, and am thinking about joining the reserves to fly after I graduate. I currently have no flight experience, but I'm doing a lot of research and currently working myself through ground school. Like most college kids I'm pretty tight on money, so do you think that paying for flying hours will give me a major advantage in applying to a reserve base? If necessary, I can wait until I save up enough money after graduation to get a PPL if it will get me a spot. You make amazing videos, thank you!

I heard you mention 'Palmer ' during your go-around. That wouldn't be Palmer, Alaska, would it? I used to live in Anchorage, and before that, Fairbanks. I really miss Alaska. 😢 Hey, where can I purchase your grey Alaska cap in this video? Great instructional video! 😊

My CFI usually says cycle carb heat or turned off within short final so you don’t need to worry about carb heat should a go around is required. He has never given me clear answer regarding cycling versus keeping carb heat. Anyone have input on this?

Hi, Josh. Another great video and "thank you" for bringing this simple; yet, important tip to the forefront. Completely off the subject, I would like your help and advice please. I'm wanting to get shirts and other apparel made so that I can help pay for my flight training -- since I'm truthfully to old for scholarships and I really don't want to get in huge debt. So, what could you suggest to me in order to help make it more simpler, cost effective, and in turn profitable so I can achieve my goals of flight training? Thank you as always. Have a great and safe day. - Matthew

Can you explain / show if we release the flaps in one shot. That might be a issue on some C172 where there is no flaps indicators

This was the worst possible scenario. But I remember forgetting to turn off the carb heat. The instructor took over to demonstrate again the full circuit and was like "she's barely climbing". I think he gave a good hint to figure out how I mesed up. I checked the rpm - all good, all instruments green. Carb heat! Reached over, turned it off. Now I always visually check it on every climb. So, yes, carb heat is important even if you retract flaps. I don't remember the exact VSI figures with the carb heat on and off during that climb but I could feel we bacame a rocket the moment I moved that lever.

I had to go around at night a few months ago. I was at 30 degrees of flaps on final. I initiated the go-around and my flaps switch was at 20, then 10, but the aircraft's performance was awful and slow. I thought I was experiencing windshear. I reached over and felt that the little metal indicator was still at 30. After playing with the flap switch for about 10 seconds, the flaps finally went up. I was at a remote airport and there was nothing but blackness in front of me. I think the only thing that really saved me was the air was cooler and denser than summer time. Field elevation is 4,000ft so density altitude can be an issue on hot days. When it comes to carb heat, do you think it's wise just to add it back in if you're thinking about it on short final? Sure you'll be a hundred RPM or so higher at touchdown, but when you need to immediately have to initiate a go around, you'll know you'll be at max power when you need it.

This is something (flaps) I struggle to get almost all of my students to understand.. For some reason, they all want to baby the flap handle (Cherokee Warrior). I teach them to execute a go-around using the same procedure as recovering from an approach stall (that's a power off stall for you new guys). Lo and behold, they all hesitate to get the last notch of flaps up. It's absolutely soul busting every time they do it! By, the way, great Joe Dirt reference. Are you done with that apple core? 🤣🤣🤣

I WANT TO LIVE

You are in a specific 172 with 4 different flaps configuration. 10°, 20°, 30° and 40°. What do you mean by 1st notch of flap? You were 40 and moved to 30? The 2nd notch, 30 to 20 or just 30 to clear flaps? I am genuinely confused..

And that's with a power flow exhaust manifold SOooo your aircraft has at least 10% more power than stock. How do like your Power flow exhaust? Good? Bad? What's the maintenance factor? Did you also upgrade to the less restrictive air filter? Did you install it after you bought the plane, or did it come with it? What are your results? Was that your vid that I watched about it? Balceiro stuffed a Cessna on a go around when the flaps wouldn't retract/failed. He was stuck at full flaps and it wouldn't even fly! I believe it was an older Cessna whereas the flaps deployed at a steeper angle than the new ones do. (Why Cessna changed it BTW). Cheers: Robert

Great video but I don't know why in the US you are so obsessed with carb heat on in any season/conditions. Worse case scenario of carb heat off in a hot summer day on downwind? While having to deal with another thing during a go-around manuver that, as you said, if you forget about it, it can really kill you. It drives me crazy. Most of the world? Carb heat off before landing.

In a 150, forgetting these turns a go round in to a bounce

I caught the "car heat" 😁

Very interesting. I've never tried that way, I mean the wrong way. I'm impressed how poor the climb rate can be. Definitely a killer. That said, oh dammit I hate your flap selector.

I'm at 125 hours now. At around 30 hours I did a touch and go without retracting the flaps. The plane wouldn't climb and there were trees in front of my cfi and I. Ill Never make that mistake again

So the birds don’t fly upside down. If you ever see one do this, get it on video and be the first to record one in inbirded flight.

FADEC FTW

Those nuns must follow Herk pilots around everywhere. They're always messing up those nice approaches.

The C172 is so out dated. I fly a CTLSi , fuel injected Rotax. No carb heat, no mixture control. 120 knots cruise at 4.5 gallons of car gas per hour. Glass panel. Come on. Catch up.

It's a good subject but you're starting off completely wrong. You only need full flaps according to the POH for short field landings full flaps are not recommended for any normal landing so do yourself a favor Don't use full flaps on every landing That's for sure