Would There Be Another Dark Lord After Sauron? (Who Would They Be?) Middle-earth Explained

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Melkor (Morgoth) and Sauron were the infamous dark lords of Middle-earth, but would there have been another after the Third Age? Let’s talk about it! Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your responses to this question in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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Комментарии : 824

@MenoftheWest Год назад

Thanks for watching! Check out Darth Gandalf's channel! ru-vid.com

@cypressstoner2532 Год назад

Herumor a Black Númenórean who lived in the late Second Age was the leader of a growing evil cult alluded to only as the "Dark Tree" in Gondor during the Fourth Age, over one hundred years into the reign of Eldarion. Herumor was among those Númenóreans who sailed east from Númenor to establish fortresses and dwellings along the coasts during Sauron's stay in Númenor (from S.A. 3262 to S.A. 3319) and were already bent to Sauron's will. He rose to power among the Haradrim. It is possible that Herumor was among those Númenórean servants from the south that Sauron gathered to him when he prepared to attack Gondor in S.A. 3429 after he had taken shape again after the Downfall of Númenor.

@DarthGandalfYT Год назад

Cheers mate, thanks for the shout-out.

@MenoftheWest Год назад

@@DarthGandalfYT Absolutely buddy, you deserve it! Keep up the great work!

@Thurgosh_OG Год назад

@@cypressstoner2532 That might work, if you mean one of Herumor's descendants, as though long lived the Numenoreans only lived hundreds, not thousands of years.

@cypressstoner2532 Год назад

@@Thurgosh_OG That would be the only way to go.

@RonGunsolus Год назад

The Reaper of Rhosgobel... later identified as Radghast who got fed up with hobbits overharvesting his prized rabbits.

@painlord2k Год назад

Practically Greta Thumberg?

@shivaramoutar5333 Год назад

So true

@robertnett9793 Год назад

As the saying goes: Die a hero or live long enough to become the villain....

@elizabethjansen2684 Год назад

Killer rabbit's?

@fether666 Год назад

The one herb to rule them all… it’s just weed

@socialaccount0000 Год назад

The only reason we never got A New Shadow is because there was no hobbit in Gondor to write it! Everyone knows Tolkien only translated texts he found, but there was nothing for him to translate during the 4th age because no hobbit wrote anything down worth of interest!

@alanpennie8013 Год назад

That's a depressing thought. Did no one carry on Merry's interest in exotic plants?

@sandal_thong8631 Год назад

Aragorn had to fight the Easterlings again. But there was no Dark Lord leading them. Probably some new king that thought Aragorn would be an old man and wouldn't march to war. It's likely that Pippin and Merry were recalled for this, and brought with them some Hobbits who wanted to see the world. They might then add a chapter to the Tookland version of the Red Book.

@socialaccount0000 Год назад

@@sandal_thong8631 Yeah, a chapter at best. An epilog if you will.

@MrSneaksful Год назад

bloodlines eventually merged as far as humans and hobbits go.

@socialaccount0000 Год назад

@@alanpennie8013 Maybe, but they just never wrote about the events happening in Gondor

@Brad1517 Год назад

In the last paragraph of the Silmarillion… ”Yet the lies of Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the power of terror and of hate, sowed in the heart of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest of days.” There may not always be a powerful dark lord, but at least a dark evil in some form will exist.

@endermanwithalowercasee Год назад

Yeah, the LotR sequel The New Shadow, though never finished, was about this kind of lingering evil still present in Middle Earth and how men became drawn to it after having it good for so long

@blackleague212 Год назад

@@endermanwithalowercasee Melkor is coming back. This is Tolkiens crappy version of Revelations from the bible. Although he did also take many storylines from the Muslim Quran. See, these " story telling" people use the spirituality from God to tell their stories. Their writing talent is God Given. The darkness is also God given, and he will send a beautiful and dark champion to spill shadows into the music of creation. This is a sound frequency, the magik to summon such sounds is actually in the Bible, around Leviticus. Soon a dark writer will complete this action, soon.

@pfleming20 Год назад

Similar to Stephen King's ending of The Stand in the rereleased unedited version. That last chapter messes with ya and reminds us - E.N.D. .... Evil Never Dies.

@deriznohappehquite Год назад

Arda Marred.

@DaDunge Год назад

@@endermanwithalowercasee Feels odd that the powertier of elves would be skipped over. Seems after a dark lord who is maia, and before a dark lord that is man there would be a dark lord who is elda. Though I guess maybe galadriel was it but she defeated herself by refusing to take the ring.

@Longshanks1690 Год назад

I think it’s plausible there would have been new threats after Sauron’s defeat but in the same way that Sauron was less of a threat than Melkor, subsequent Dark Lords after him would also be less powerful and less of an actual danger to the Free Peoples. So in that sense, Sauron was the last true Dark Lord as his “heirs” would be less than pretenders and unworthy of being considered in the same league of power as him and his master. At some point, any orc chieftain with enough followers in his horde could claim the title of “Dark Lord,” the prestige of the title having fallen so low in prestige and power by such a time.

@Longshanks1690 Год назад

Just realised I said prestige twice, I’m very good with words. 😂

@previllion5355 Год назад

For the sake of argument, I would point out that the forces of good are also seen to diminish in the same way throughout the legendarium. So the new “dark lords” may be less and less powerful, but they may still be similar in their level of threat to the Free Peoples considering the departure/disappearance of many of the more powerful races like elves.

@kenparsons7686 Год назад

“Any brigand of the hills can claim such a following…”

@Cailus3542 Год назад

I'm not quite so certain that Middle-Earth diminishes in power after Sauron's defeat. I know that's thematic throughout the trilogy, but it always seemed to me that after the passing of the Elves and last gasps of Númenor, the opportunity was open for the race of Men (not just Númenoreans, but Men in general) to find their true potential. They were no longer overshadowed by greater beings, and could thus build their own greatness that might one day match or exceed the Elves. One way or another, Men will eventually play a crucial part in the Dagor Dagorath, which necessitates growth and evolution. The way they do it is up for debate, of course. The obvious answer (technology) doesn't neatly mesh with Tolkien's world. It's worth considering, though.

@mr.blueberry5138 Год назад

An age after Sauron’s defeat and the main villain is just some guy with a dagger

@melkhiordarkfell4354 Год назад

Dark Lord Hobbit of the Shire, he kept all the potatos to himself and all the other hobbits could only have 6 meals a day, and he made a 3rd breakfast, just for him.

@mrsamaritan6881 Год назад

Sauron was Morgoth's lieutenant and Sauron himself had a lieutenant, The Mouth of Sauron. If he survived the final battle he would have been the most likely candidate for the next Dark Lord.

@kenparsons7686 Год назад

In JRRT’s mythmaking, one of the primary themes is the fading of magic as the race of men assumes not only dominance in the world, but eventually becomes the only remaining “intelligent species”. Could another Dark Lord arise from the race of men? Yes, I think it could absolutely happen, and we have some examples in our modern history of what that could conceivably look like.

@Bigjuicydumbdumb Год назад

Dr Fauci

@Traumglanz Год назад

Finally I can say Hitler without pulling a Godwin! ;-)

@DISTurbedwaffle918 Год назад

Khosrow II, Shapur, Nero. Lots of good candidates in antiquity, most of them Persian.

@MichaelClark-uw7ex 11 месяцев назад

The 9 human rings still exist after the fall of Sauron.

@VoidKami 4 месяца назад

@@MichaelClark-uw7ex But they were powerless with the destruction of the One Ring.

@UnswimmingFishYT Год назад

I always thought if there was another major threat to Middle-Earth, it would trace back to Shelob. She's the only known evil thing powerful enough to pose a serious problem after Sauron is gone, and the story was very clear in saying she might have survived, but didn't go further than that. We know Minas Morgul had the bridge collapsed and was forbidden after LOTR, but Shelob would have no trouble at all getting in, and bad men still could, but it would be challenging. Since Shelob was actually not exactly a spider, instead an evil spirit taking that form by choice, this means she could change like Sauron often used to, and select a form more practical for interacting with people, maybe just a really creepy person, probably keeping some of her dark, predatory style, or possibly just speak as a spider, which could work for a magical creature like her. The sequel was planned to have a theme of corruption, so my idea is that Shelob would somehow start an evil organization infiltrating human government, ruled by a cult that worships her and offers sacrifices, which fits her clearly defined desire to consume as much as she could and grow to a ridiculous size, mentioned in LOTR. The cultists' motivation would be harder to explain, but Minas Morgul would make a good stronghold for that, and the city would certainly be big enough for it, particularly Shelob's size since she enormous. The story for this would involve a lot of detective-style writing, with the protagonists working to uncover and get rid of the corrupting cult in their ranks, eventually leading to some sort of invasion of Minas Morgul, to finally kill Shelob, which would be good men attacking evil men, as we know already would have been in the story. This would also fit pretty well with Tolkien's reasoning for not writing it, as he said it would have been too dark, and more like a thriller than his other writing was, so based on a combination of what little is confirmable, and a lot of guessing, this is the story that makes most sense to me. Since Tolkien's general idea was that adding more story to his world was fine with him if it wasn't contradictory to anything he wrote already, the only thing stopping this from actually being written is modern-day legal limitations, and if someone ever made this, I'd definitely want to see it.

@trevorp8124 Год назад

Theres a great total conversion mod for Rome Total War called Fourth Age. It's a spinoff of the ideas of the New Shadow. The new Dark Lord of sorts was Herumor, who was secretly the Mouth of Sauron (who didn't explicitly die in the books so much as just...left before the fight started). The thrust of the story is him creating a schism and civil war in Gondor and introducing Melkorist worship to his preferred faction. It's pretty solid as far as elaborate fanfiction goes.

@Nala15-Artist 11 месяцев назад

Oh yeah, my husband is a voice actor for that mod. A great one for sure.

@jamesfrost2399 Год назад

This is a fun topic to speculate upon. Like yourself, I don't like to imagine that the Blue Wizards became corrupted to the same extent that Saruman did, even if they didn't succeed in their mission. Many years ago I did plan (though never got around to properly writing) a 4th Age fan-fiction in which the main villain was a half-Maia, a vampiric daughter of Thuringwethil who had fled to the southern realms during the War of Wrath and had hidden away among the peoples there ever since. The protagonists in that tale were men who had formerly worshipped Sauron and were living as mercenaries in Near Harad while desperately seeking a new sense of purpose in their lives, but the plot only ended in manipulation, betrayal and death. More of a horror story in a fantasy setting than a Tolkienian epic, really. I do imagine that one of the Black Numenorean colonies in the South might in time have gathered sufficient military might to challenge Gondor, and risen up to attack the West under the rulership of some ambitious descendant of the King's Men who fancied themselves as the new Dark Lord. But I agree with you that it's more likely the next great threat would come from within the West itself, much as Numenor had fallen into greed and corruption long before Sauron arrived there.

@teeheeteeheeish Год назад

I like to think that one corrupted and one did not, in order to create a dichotomy or a classical theme of “good brother / bad brother” and ultimately the good brother would prevail.

@mikearchibald744 Год назад

I had a similar one, but it was the blue wizards who were the 'bad guys'. I wrote it long ago so don't really remember much, it was even before 'fan fiction' was a thing. The general plot was that Faramir and Arwen had been kidnapped, and as the ship holding them pulled away the last thing they saw was....a halfling severing the rope that Eowyn and Aragorns son whatsisname had thrown on to stop the ship. So this led Aragorn to Sam, Merry, Pippin and Sams daughter whatsername to help him. They travel to the south and east and meet the usual miscreants and plot fillers, but of coures I had to include the entwives and Goldberry's sister Elderberry. Aragorn tries to convince Eowyn to stay behind, she says screw you, he has his son there. Faramir and Arwen escape but have to make their way east to get out, and meet a growing threat...the two blue wizards. They get almost captured but are rescued by the eagles (I was young ok, easy plot rescue). But they meet up with Aragorn and crew, and I remember the scene where they say "to stop wizards...we need a wizard". And of course thats Rhadagast, who like Frodo before tells them that he's by no means up to take on even one wizard, let alone two. But Faramir tells him about what they are doing to animals there, so he has no choice. Of course he has another reason.... And just because I loved the silmarillion so much I couldn't help it, since they know they are way out of their league, they track down one remaining big league elf, Glorfindel. Who instead leads them to the sea and a ship waiting to take him 'home' but tells them they can have some preordained help....if they keep going south along the ocean. And find none other than Maglor, who has been wandering up and down the coast in pain from the silmaril. He gets this chance to finally redeem himself, so they all set off for the east. He's of course pretty crazy by this time, but can still sing a good tune. The two wizards HAVE to be the antagonists for the simple reason of how hard it is to kill a wizard. But I made them female just because women tend to get short shrift from Tolkien. And they had been the 'intimates' of Gandalf and Saruman (not that kind of intimate). So Rhadagast was always the odd man out so realy didn't want to face them. It turns out that 'bad' is relative, because from what they know, some men from the east and south had gone to fight the descendants of the numenoreans, who if you remember had pretty much enslaved much of the south and east. Now their men had returned, some said the new king was a good guy, but some said he was now more powerful than ever, and more numenorean than ever. So this had kicked the wizards into high gear. Various plot points go by and everybody gets to be a hero, but at the end Rhagagast battles the two women in a very politically incorrect fight with Maglor, and basically tells them that their time has passed, they had 'fulfilled their fate' and it was time to return home. Of course the 'wicked' ideas that sometimes took them over was the spirt of Saruman. The three wizards then go to Aman, while Maglor is seen walking into the sea where he is reunited with the silmaril which accepts him and he becomes a kind of sea spirit that helps sailors. The silmaril of course was located in the sea on the stone where Turambar took his own life. The end. I think most of it was padded up though with stuff I'd stolen from other fantasy books around at the time but it can't be worse than what the Rings of Power is going to be:)

@crazyquirrels Год назад

I do not believe there would another “dark lord”, to the same level and extent as Morgoth and Sauron. Even between them, there was a clear lessening of evils: Sauron was far weaker than his master Morgoth. Sauron also became weaker over time, rather than stronger. And after Sauron, there were no more greater beings of any note tied with Morgoth and Sauron. A series of much lesser evils will arise and fall, but never reaching anywhere near the heights of Morgoth or even Sauron. No, I do not see any other rising of dark lords until Dagor Dagorath, when Morgoth returns once last time and is slain. And the third song of the Ainur comes to fruition.

@swaghauler8334 Год назад

This. Even Galadriel said: "I will diminish and go into the West." This indicates that ALL of the powerful entities were waning in power.

@crazyquirrels Год назад

@@swaghauler8334 It was a central theme of Lord of the Rings: the fading of magic.

@thevalarauka101 Год назад

second song, not third

@bluebubbadog2080 Год назад

I believe someone like Hitler would arise and be considered the 3rd dark lord

@MichaelClark-uw7ex 11 месяцев назад

And Arda is remade.

@johnquach8821 Год назад

A new villain, for sure. But not a Dark Lord on the level of Sauron. There was a theory where the Mouth of Sauron escaped. He became a (local) threat, but was a pale shadow of Sauron's threat level or even the Witch King's threat level. Lord of the Rings Online IIRC also has some post-Sauron threats but none are nearly as dangerous as him.

@scottlypuff Год назад

in middle school, i played a MERPgame with the mouth as main baddie it was awesome!

@harvain731 Год назад

Yeah, LOTRO hasn't delved too much so far into Post-Sauron Defeated. There are various threats such as the Mouth of Sauron, various other Lieutenants in Mordor and other threats in Middle-Earth. To not give spoilers, we deal with several of those other Threats and either eliminate them or they are crippled to the point where they no longer will hinder any in Middle-Earth. Tolkien for the Lore at least to myself while not giving a huge amount of details of the Fourth Age gave enough to show how things were: There was no longer any of the Huge Singular Threat of the First, Second and Third Ages to drive most of the Evil Things for any purpose. Things become how they would be in our own history: Many smaller threats that at times could grow to something larger but never again would there be any one being who moved the times. A good example of this is World War I and World War II that while they changed our world greatly forever and much was lost that never exist again, there was no singular Evil who was behind this. Even the greatest villain of World War II was not pulling all the strings and directing all Evils at the time and even the "Good Guys" were doing their own evil deeds although covered up or forgiven due to the Allies being victorious in their efforts.

@jeffreysommer3292 Год назад

It seemed that he would be the clear choice.

@poki580 Год назад

mouth was just a man, not even a wraith, a numenorian but just a man so its not as scary tbh

@ChrisVillagomez Год назад

@@poki580 He was a Black Numenorian that Sauron taught magic powers to and he was trusted enough to speak on Sauron's behalf as an ambassador and a commander, so he's realistically the most likely next "Dark Lord" but he would just be like a more evil but less powerful Saruman

@paulwagner688 Год назад

One of Tolkien's great themes was nature vs industry. Perhaps the next dark lord would also have great power, but that power would come from misuse and manipulation of the new technology that always develops and continues to develop.

@mikearchibald744 Год назад

I'm not sure its 'nature' against industry, because the shire had 'industry', just of a particular kind. Unlike the elves in the woods they had built a village, from all accounts it LOOKED like a village if you came across it. Mechanization doesn't necessarily mean industry, but maybe I haven't thought it out enough.

@paulwagner688 Год назад

@@mikearchibald744 The most technological part of the Shire was the Mill. Think about that.

@mikearchibald744 Год назад

@@paulwagner688 That was pretty much the most technological part of the WORLD. Even the cities don't have much in technology, but that doesn't mean technology doens't exist. The Shire wasn't structurally different from Bree, which didn't even HAVE a mill, it had a bar. There's hardly no mention at all of these thigns in Tolkien, which is why I don't think its that big a theme. That section at the end of the book with the changes certainly meant something, but I'm not sure its that. He had to show some kind of change to it to show that it had faced danger. The OWNERSHIP of the industry was as much a theme as the mechanics of it. So you could argue the hobbits lived some kind of communal existence, and this was capitalism taking over. So maybe Tolkien was a commie. That makes as much sense as the industry theme. At most it seemed a kind of feudal society, the baggins apparantly where 'better off' than other hobbits, but there is no mention of why that is. No doubt thats Tolkiens british class sensibility, which is pretty obvious in the relationshop of Sam and Frodo. Sam just 'accepts' that he is not as good or smart as his 'master'. And he 'saves the day' not by bravery, but by admitting that his place is to die by Frodo's side, the WORLD is saved by Sam realizing he is not Frodo's equal and should be so subservient that he give up the quest just to save frodo, even though Elrond had told him not to. Women who have read the book have often said they thought Frodo and Sam were gay, because they really didn't get the 'class' distinction 'across the pond', but thats a far bigger theme than nature versus industry. IF the Baggins had more money, they must have more 'industry' of some sort. Like the british I would guess they are landowners, and collect rents. In britain that was almost the ONLY mark of 'industry' for the upper class once they HAD money. ANd of course Bilbo risks everything for one twelfth the treasure. He wants dough, so he has industry. The bigger distinction in the book was teh fact that their building material had changed, he makes a big deal out of the fact that its brick. Thats not industry, thats the beginning of 'council housing' and suburbia. And of course in other TOlkien works thats not even a theme at all. Thats me trying to think about it, even if its a theme I think its a minor one. Tolkiens choice for a lack of technology may be no more than simply to show what ancient history it alll is.

@archangel2174 Год назад

There wont be another dark lord. If you read the Ainulindaile, Melko could not corrupt the third theme. The first corrupted theme was Melko, and the second was Sauron. I believe the next big thing is simply Dagor Dagorath and the remaking of Arda.

@MenoftheWest Год назад

Interesting idea! I have heard many different theories about the themes of the Ainur, and this is certainly a possibility!

@Mr.Frijoles Год назад

Glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this

@factanonverba7547 Год назад

The third theme, if the last Dagor, could begin with the freeing of melkor and company from the void through occult human practices, aided by the last of the petty dwarves, some type of resurgent dark elven coven, and the last of the king's men, the dirty númenóreans.

@teleportedbreadfor3days Год назад

@@factanonverba7547 I’ve long believed that Saruman’s corruption was deep enough by the time of the final battle for the Shire that he would have been Sauron’s successor if he did not die. Just the way he spoke to everybody like Frodo before Grimma Wormtougne stabbed him reminded me a lot of a traitorous, manipulative Dark Lord.

@factanonverba7547 Год назад

@Hlord1109 wasn't?

@Dave-sy3rg Год назад

I've had an idea for a story. JRR Tolkien always regretted making the orcs seem to be so irredeemably evil. So have it be that there are still isolated communities of orcs out in the wilderness, who's behavior has slowly been improving as the effects of Saurons control wear slowly off. But they are still distrusted and occasionally hunted by humans. The plot centers around some threat arising (pick one you like) and the orcs being the first to recognize it and trying to get the humans to believe them about how dangerous it is.

@endermanwithalowercasee Год назад

So, good guy orcs like in the 1980 Return of the King? I always thought it was such a great dream scene lol

@ToddTheTolerable Год назад

In a "The New Shadow" type of sequel where High Men fall to the worship of Melkor and turn to conquest, it would likely come to Middle-Men of Rohan, men of the East, or indeed even Orcs to stop them.

@jomesias Год назад

I believe before we get a new one, we should focus on Morgoth because he is still alive. He was vanished into the Void but is still living and in theory could make a return

@MichaelClark-uw7ex 11 месяцев назад

According to the prophesy of the Dagor Dagorath, he will return to end Arda so it can be rebuilt. Think Ragnorok

@CommanderChris66 Год назад

One thing I’ve always found interesting is that as the dark lord Sauron is a lesser version per say of Morgoth so is Aragon a lesser version of Beren. So it’s almost as if the magic that makes even the heroic peoples is lessening as time goes on. Perhaps this is the truth behind the elves departure. It’s not the true end of the world but the end of the magical and the birth of the mundane.

@alanpennie8013 Год назад

It's the process of disenchantment, or entzauberung in the original German.

@Raz.C Год назад

Actually, dude, this is a recurring theme in Tolkien's works. Or at least the ones about Middle Earth. The things created by the Vala are at their most wonderous when they are first made, then they are marred by Morgoth and are remade, but are remade 'lesser' than they were. The Twin Lamps Illuin and Ormal were the first lights of the world, then came the Two Trees Telperion and Laurelin (which arguably, might have been grander than Illiun and Ormal), leading to the Sun and Moon, which were pale imitations of the Two Trees of Valinor. The Elves were at their mightiest when they were new, with those awakening at Cuivienen being the mightiest of elves, giving birth to a generation scarcely less mighty, which included Feanor. As time goes on, the might of the evles wanes. The same for the Numenoreans; Elros lives for 500 years and each generation after him lived for successively shorter lifespans... It seems that everything in Tolkien's world was at its best and most unadulterated when new, only becoming more polluted and less wonderous as time passes. Even the Ages of the world follow this trend, with the First age being more wonderous than the second, the second being more wonderous than the third, etc... In turn, the years of the Trees were more wonderous than the First Age of the Sun... It's very rare to find an example where something new is better than something that came before, in Middle Earth and its history. Everything is a lesser version of its predecessor. So, "Yes," you're right to say that Aragorn is a lesser version of Beren, just as Sauron is a lesser Morgoth.

@sandal_thong8631 Год назад

Aragorn is Isildur's heir.

@jasonGamesMaster Год назад

That is exactly the point. In many ways The Lord of the Rings is post apocalyptic, several times over. Each time the world loses more and more that it can never get back

@CommanderChris66 Год назад

@@sandal_thong8631 And Beren is both their ancestor.

@marcusmanchester7095 Год назад

I like the idea of the next dark lord being an elf who refused to leave middle earth, like Legolas's father. A high elf with power in Middle Earth refusing to let it go.

@danielmapp4522 Год назад

I would say a sorcerer Black Numenorean do to their footholds in the south would rise up as a new Dark Lord. Dragons are selfish and reclusive creatures. I don't think they would care to rule that much. I think they would just want to gather wealth. A Balrog could rule and rise up to power over armies but it would have to be as intelligent as Gothmog. Remember Tolkien said many Balrogs hid in the dark places of the world.

@Nerobyrne Год назад

I think if you moved Tolkien's lore into modern times, the Dragons would totally be Walstreet bankers or something similar. They don't really care about ruling for its own sake the way dictators do, they just see it as a way to get even more money. And the concept of "enough" doesn't really occur to them. Thankfully Shadowrun already beat us to it ^^

@gandalf8216 Год назад

Four out of seven are confirmed dead.

@twilliam043 Год назад

@@Nerobyrne yep. The "dragons" were kicked out of 109 dwarven halls

@kardy12 Год назад

Tolkien changed his mind on the number of Balrogs over time - initially he envisaged armies of them, but as he made them more powerful they reduced in number, with most perishing by the end of the first age.

@ocirontariocryptidinvestig8010 Год назад

exactly I think the last surviving balrog is what we just call the devil in the 7th age. I just feel like this was always heavily implied by Tolkien.

@DoomMomDot Год назад

I think any more stories would echo the fall of Númenor. a story of men with everything they could need, but with a greed for even more. Would there be a new Dark Lord? Maybe in the sense of people worshiping Sauron they way the people of Numenor worshiped Melkor, but not a Dark Lord in person.

@turdferguson9356 Год назад

The Master would have sensed that his Lieutenant failed, and so Melkor would break free from his prison within the Halls of Night... to finish what He started, with Dagor Dagorath

@painlord2k Год назад

Morgoth cannot break free until the Guardian doesn't fall asleep.

@turdferguson9356 Год назад

@@painlord2k I do not think the firstborn of the Valar could be restrained for so long unless it was part of his plan, to lull the Valar and the Free Peoples into a false sense of security... it would not be the first time Morgoth had done so either

@painlord2k Год назад

@@turdferguson9356 IIRC, Aerendil is the Guardian tasked with it. But he is mortal and on this side of the Gate. Where time wear everything and everyone down. In the end, Morgoth must return in Arda, to take his Ring back. And only then Arda (his Ring) can be broken and remade unmarred. The Silmarilii recovered. And I'm pretty sure Feanor and Turin had some words to exchange with Morgoth.

@ALEXANDERATTACK Год назад

Yoston, never realised how much I needed to hear your voice. Great video. Thank you.

@eacalvert Год назад

Wonderful as always

@Turuial Год назад

I see quite a lot of folks positing that the Ithryn Luin might be potential dark lords, however by the end of his career Tolkien had moved away from the thought that the Blue Wizards had fallen or failed at their task. Indeed, he had begun to speculate that their task in the south and the east was so massive that they had in fact been sent to Middle-Earth in the Second Age before the coming of the other Wizards. He even changes their mannish names to reflect this. In a text found in The Peoples of Middle-earth, alternate set of names are given, Morinehtar and Rómestámo (or Rome(n)star), "Darkness-slayer" and "East-helper."

@alanpennie8013 Год назад

Happy to learn that they have been rehabilitated.

@thebrotherskrynn Год назад

Wow did this sort of video months ago, except I came to a very different answer in that I named Fankil as the only possible successor. But I like how you reason your way through the whole process even more than I did. Great job!

@Comicnut64 Год назад

Haven’t seen a theory vid in a while keep up the good work

@annaroselarsen4218 Год назад

Awesome video !

@escarglow4261 Год назад

I've always thought that when Eru reveals that the discord of Melkor was also a part of his designs, he reveals his desire for change, unpredictability, and renewal to be present in Arda and more specifically over time, Middle Earth. In this way I see Melkor/Morgoth as unwittingly helping to create the perfect environment for the second born (humans), beings for whom Arda is only a temporary home, and for whom the lines on the page of a history book are never as meaningful as lived experience. In this way the cycle of ages, the rising and falling of Dark Lords, and the need for humanity to learn the lessons of past ages over again in new generations are accounted for. You can tell a child not to put their hand on a hot stove a million times, but sometimes it's only after doing it and burning themselves that the lesson really sticks. And so Middle Earth is ripe for the coming of a new Dark Lord, against whom the second born must rise and after some great tests ultimately triumph once more. Because all of this is within the designs of Eru by way of Melkor, the child of his thought. And so it will be until Dagor Dagorath.

@ThaMetalMan Год назад

Great video!

@maxwellmurphy8242 11 месяцев назад

You do a fantastic job.

@MyHoeDespawned Год назад

You should do a video on Sauron while morgoth was his master

@MyHoeDespawned Год назад

If not already

@shanenolan8252 Год назад

Oh i remember in the lord of the rings visual dictionary, there was a section on the easterng or haradrim. And rumours of a city with a rumoured servant of sauron. Who performed blood sacrifice gor sauron or morgoth. Something like a miar a lesser one . A servant of Morgotbor sauron. Somone who over saw the eadt for sauron. ( not canon but a good idea)

@Crabby303 Год назад

Maybe some warlord-sorcerer from out of the East - the east was massive, unknown and under the sway of Morgoth first and later Sauron for aeons.

@sandal_thong8631 Год назад

Perhaps not as massive as our East, since I just saw a map online that ends in a sea to the east, not that far from the Sea of Rhun.

@endermanwithalowercasee Год назад

No other dark lords, at least from known characters, because who knows what forces still lurk in the far east and south, perhaps balrogs are even still hidden there, but rather the darkness would remain in the ways the New Shadow shows us, through men who become tired of good and even lead cults worshipping Sauron and Morgoth, plotting to undo the victory of the ones who defeated those vanquished dark lords in ages past. Perhaps one from those places or goups could become powerful and a tyrant if left unchecked but that is the the extent I believe, they wpuld be no dark lord, rather a mortal man playacting as if he were one, mere shadow of what once was, just as we see throughout the ages of Middle Earth. Excellent topic to discuss in a video! Also, some people say perhaps the Blue Wizards could become new dark lords, but I prefer the version of the writings where they helped combat Sauron's grasp over the east and south instead. Perhaps they would even prevent new dark forces coming out of the east or south in the later ages.

@sandal_thong8631 Год назад

Yes a tyrant of the East in Rhun, or a tyrant of the South in Far Hard causing trouble, but unable to coordinate Easterlings and Southrons as only Sauron could do it was written. Likewise, with the magic of Middle Earth fading, they would be unable to unite with orcs and trolls.

@davidmiddleton7958 11 месяцев назад

"In the Dark places of the World are many hidden things!" An apt warning, considering Durin's bane. To expand upon this, when Morgoth was defeated by the Valar in the First Age, many of Morgoth's servants fled and hid in dark places deep in the Earth. If another dark lord arose, I think it would be a Balrog.

@agentspaniel4428 8 месяцев назад

Imagine if the next one was a gondorian king obsessed with conquests seeking to "share" gondor's wealth and prosperity with the rest of the world and the only one's willing to stand in his way were the Easterlings and Haradrim

@adammoir7894 Год назад

Definitely not out of the question... But it would be a Dark shadow that would be less than the Shadows of Sauron and Morgoth...

@Manchevo Год назад

Is there an evil being that Morgoth (or Sauron) created that was mentioned and then left out in the overall story ? Doesn't matter which age. I think not. Yet did the power to corrupt die with Sauron ? I think not.

@denniscattell Год назад

Maybe one of the Palantir, the Seeing Stones, could play a part in the return of evil? Either one of the custodians of the Stone of Minas Tirith or of Orthanc, becomes obsessed with it and steals it and becomes corrupted by it ( spirit of Sauron or Saruman living within the Stone perhaps?) OR one of the lost Stones is found? I don't know, I just wanted to suggest a possibility that no one else seems to have thought of. With the departure of the Elves and of Gandalf, the Seeing Stones may be the last remnants of power and magic in Middle Earth, and we ought not to forget about them!

@NANA-kf1cs Год назад

It could also be used in the sense of someone outside Gondor corrupting those within it. Perhaps Aragorn's heir and other high ranking people in Gondor are corrupted by a traitor or imposter from the South or the East using a Palantir. This could lead Gondor into ruin, civil war (perhaps Aragorn's son turns on his father), Gondor to turn to evil or be left ripe for attack.

@derargent4692 Год назад

Custodes? *THE EMPEROR PROTECTS*

@orrointhewise87 Год назад

"Let him stay there....let him ROT!" Hmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting topic of discussion 🤔 Would? Definitely; evil doesn't die, least not till the end of all things. Could? That's tough to answer cuz who? I like the idea that the blue wizards became evil and rose to b dual dark lords, it would give an interesting journey to how they fell. But who knows, maybe another Feanor like elf came out of the darkness of Mirkwood and tried to take over all lands. Extremely unlikely but fun to ponder :)

@geviesanta3631 Год назад

This has got to be the most interesting topic I have ever heard from this video. I never thought there would be another villain after Sauron, even the War of the Ring. Nevertheless, this does bring in a good point as to who could be the next threat.

@blakehawkes9597 Год назад

You’re always so great I also agree with everything you said, because Tolkien loved nostalgia I imagine a dark lord to also be a more internal threat that somehow awakens some sleeping threat. Perhaps some more sinister chaos who unleashes something he cannot control and the western powers fractured must unite and remember the old alliances. That seems to have a good storytelling spirit and nostalgia to it ☺️

@ACEnBEAKY Год назад

What might be an interesting idea-for a fanfiction that serves as prototype practice to evolve into something original-is if some of the remnants of Mordor went to the abandoned underground cities and mines. They went so deep they found what some theorize to be Tolkien's equivalent to Lovecraftian abominations. A sequel story where a middle earth or middle earth inspired setting has to deal with a growing underground lovecraftian cult? Not totally unheard of, but not something that's lifted off yet. Combining what people like about Lovecraft and Tolkien would be pretty cool. At this point, most of the good guys and bad guys would be human. Covert and Conspiratorial, but with the potential to become more open. It could focus on stuff that Tolkien mentioned but the movies didn't get around to mentioning (some LOTR lore videos talking about vampires and werewolves in his world and such).

@timothygreensweight1676 Год назад

As long as darkness is in the heart of man there will always be a dark lord

@danielriley7380 Год назад

One reason Tolkien decided not to go further with a sequel was he found the idea “quite depressing”. The Elves had finally left Middle-Earth for the Undying Lands, leaving little left of magic. Or had they? It was the Eldar that had taken the Straight Road to Valinor. What of those Avari so far in the East the lands aren’t shown on the maps of Beleriand, or of western Middle-Earth? Although we know some spread West over the ages did some stay close to Cuivienen, or retreat south as Melkor began to ensnare their numbers? What if in the most southeastern reaches of Middle-Earth they had thrived unaffected by the wars of Morgoth and Sauron. And now with their distant cousins gone from this world, they decided they wanted the land left behind for themselves?

@cherub3624 Год назад

I would say The Dark Lord is whoever can exert their dominance over the minds of those things most affected by Melkors corruption of Arda.

@anthonyhanks1807 Год назад

I need to subscribe to darth gandalf, i love his war in middle earth series all the way from the 1st and 4th age. Furthermore the only prediction i can think of is the prophecy of mandos, that morgoth would return from the void and declare war on the free peoples again.

@ToddTheTolerable Год назад

I believe there would be many evil kings or sorcerers of Men who would claim the title of Dark Lord, but that wouldn't make them genuine Dark Lords by Middle-Earth standards. I feel like the last possible Dark Lord would have been Saruman after Sauron's defeat, being a Maiar, should he have lived to gather more strength in the ages to come rather than perishing in the Shire.

@cemitchell6496 Год назад

Suppose a cult rose up around Queen Arwen either shortly before or shortly after Aragorn passed? And because she knew her doom, allowed it to grow because of her sadness of being utterly alone?

@mitche5007 Год назад

Without watching this video, and observing the entire storyline from the books and his perspective, there are no more dark lords. just like the elves, the line of dark lords continues to become diluted and weakened over time and I think tokens point was to illustrate that the hold that evil holds over our world will gradually fade over time as well and that was his point.

@timonsolus Год назад

After thinking about what you’ve said in this video, I like your idea about some future leader of Gondor being corrupted and becoming a self-styled Dark Lord. Here’s my thoughts on how this might happen: Morgoth had a successor, which was Sauron. What if Saruman had a successor in the Fourth Age? After Saruman was released from Isengard by Treebeard, Isenguard was locked up and the key given to first Gandalf, then Aragorn after Gandalf’s departure. So, the question is - who will unlock Isenguard and examine the legacy of Saruman? Will it be Aragorn and Arwen? Or will Isenguard be left locked up until a later heir of Aragorn gets curious about what’s inside, and either enters it himself or sends a trusted retainer to do so? And could Saruman’s legacy end up corrupting whoever unlocks its secrets? Alternatively, going much further forward into the Fourth Age, what’s going to happen when Men from Gondor enter Minas Morgul (formerly Minas Ithil) for the first time since the Third Age? Could, after many centuries, Minas Morgul still contain the Witch King’s legacy, some writings, spell book or some item of evil power that could corrupt the Gondorian commander who finds it?

@irontemplar6222 Год назад

I like the idea of a number if successor evils that are all squabbling for power and control.

@allanrune Год назад

Since the elves left Middle Earth, I don't think that any mortal would be up to the task.

@BossGaming-vg6zh Год назад

You should make a MELKOR and Sauron comparison video, as you mention in this video! That would be very interesting

@wildsurfer12 Год назад

7:10 The Mouth of Sauron here looks like he’s borrowed the Statue of Liberty’s hat!

@Alexutzu200973 Год назад

An interesting topic indeed, tbh the idea of a mortal/man being a Dark Lord i don't think would work in future ages for lotr due to the fact that such person simply lacks the power and time to achieve the status and keep it. I think that if a new DL would arise, just like Sauron it will be an ancient evil, maybe a Balrog that fled in the past and reawakens. Also it is the possibility that other spirits from Valinor might find a way to return to Middle Earth, after all conflicts are possible there as well. And finally since the world of ME is so big there might be other undiscovered forces that might seek out that status, for example the Nameless things.

@jesuscoyt-munoz2753 Год назад

@Men of the West interesting video I like the facts and theories you mentioned. I for one think the new dark lord would’ve come from both within Gondor and the east. It would’ve taken place 50-100 years with aragorns grand children and his son who would now be middle age as king and his children about to feel the presence of a new shadow. This new shadow would’ve been some emissary from some eastern kingdom who would introduce a new way of living and entice the people of gondor to join him in the east and it would’ve been a dark cult and Alderan would’ve met the blue wizards and their friendship would’ve mirrored his father’s friendship with Gandalf. What do you think of this theory?

@cteal2018 Год назад

I like the idea of a "Palpatine"-like character that is dabbling in the dark arts thinking that he is using this power to rise and gain control. Using Gondor's forces to wreak havoc on the west. Only to realize that the dark power is using him. This new Dark Lord would only be a puppet for an other "supernatural" being that wants to be the Big Bad and has been using him to set up the pieces on the game board before his return, maybe even setting the BBEG free and acting as a key for him to enter Middle Earth.

@thevalarauka101 Год назад

oh wait, that's practically just Saruman

@lisboah Год назад

There could be another Dark Lord, but certainly not one powerful enough to endanger all of Middle-Earth like Morgoth and Sauron did. Both of them were Ainur, and thus possessed powers and knowledge that made them the threats they were. The only one that could have become one was Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs, as he was a Maiar as well, but we have no idea of what his final fate was. Did he become a powerless spirit like Sauron, or was he sent to the Void like Morgoth, after his death at the Siege of Gondolim? Speaking of Dark Lords, a channel called The Vile Eye recently made an analysis of Morgoth as a villain. And, aside from mispronouncing a few names, as a Tolkien fan I have to say that he actually made a pretty good job.

@harvain731 Год назад

Tolkien doesn't go fully into such but the fate of the Maiar in Middle-Earth who fell to Evil seems to be the fate that both Sauron and Saruman had: They are still there but are now just spirits that cannot take any proper shape nor effect anything. This likely was the fate of the Balrog better known as Durin's Bane as Gandalf's own death basically highlights what happens to those who were Maiar, that they can journey back to Valinor with their Spirit but the West can deny this as with the 2 Winds that blow from the West and scatter Sauron and Saruman respectively. Granted there is a concept that Tolkien didn't fully go into beyond the only who was seen doing such, Sauron, who reformed twice: First after his original form was destroyed at Numenor and then his Spirit fleeing after the One Ring was cut from his hand as he lay heavily wounded from his Battle with Gil-Galad & Elendil. It's hard to say if any of the other Fallen Maiar would also have this ability as it doesn't seem like Tolkien hints any others did. It's actually something I wonder that the LOTR: Return to Moria an Upcoming Game in 2023 will explore and have Durin's Bane being a factor in Moria again in the Fourth Age as the game talks about finding the Secret of the Shadow beneath the mountains. It already has a setting that doesn't 100% fit with the Lore as Gimli is involved, being the one who sets the Player off to help reclaim Moria. Which Moria's Reclaimation won't occur until sometime after Fourth Age 171 at an unspecified date when Durin VII & Last reclaims Khazad-Dum forever and eventually the Dwarves fade away. Gimli having sailed West with Legolas after King Elessar willingly passes away in Fourth Age 120.

@M.H.I.A.F.T. Год назад

Pippin could have been an unintentional third dark lord; his jawdropping idiocy made him as dangerous for the good guys to be around as any orc or ringwraith

@legomyego7114 Год назад

I could see a story where Sauron managed to capture and slowly corrupt one of the blue wizards who would escape after Saurons fall only to turn to evil himself and rise in the East. Sauron was a master manipulator. Since Morgoth wasn't killed but rather banished, maybe the corrupt blue wizards goal is to somehow summon Morgoth back to Middle Earth.

@Epic_Kingdom Год назад

If Saruman had survived, I could see him becoming another dark lord.

@TheRoguePrince0 Год назад

Maybe a lotr version of thrawn could rise up. Usually when the big evil is defeated a new smaller evil rises up to take it's place. Starscream, from transformers is a good example.

@Lasershadow Год назад

Three ways: 1: Somehow either Sauron or Saruman manage to interact with the real world in a ghostly fashion and haunt certain individuals in power. 2: The Black Numenoreans are still out there and can carry on Sauron's legacy even after the Dark Lord's demise. 3: Orcs, Trolls, and Easternlings can still cause havoc. Not necessarily themselves but through Sauron and/or Saruman hauntings like in 1.

@ex.O Год назад

I don't know much about LOTR lore, specially how magic works but if magic is something you can obtain or subtract then I can imagine a powerful dark lord with some magic having thousands of followers in a world where magic just belong to old legends. Great video as always MotW!

@geoff8737 Год назад

Maybe a Dark Elf.

@ibonarzua2811 Год назад

Loved the video. Some time ago an idea occured to me. That the descendants of Faramir and Eowyn might pose a threat to those of Aragorn if these failed at their duties. If the long living spawn of numenorean and elven blood became detached from the mortal subjects and may fell in the same pit of arrogance as the King´s Men, the children of Faramir and Eowyn would have the support of rohan, many gondorians as their relation to numenor faded across centuries of the fourth age and perhaps gondor aristocracy who missed the time of the seneschal because they exerted less control than a king. And so, I imagine the fourth age as not an age of dark lords but of humanity doing what it had always done, turn against each other. Without an existencial threat, civil war seemed inevitable to me. And that is why I agree with you in thanking the story to end where it does. With complex characters whose virtue can also show underlining personal interests (Elrond raising aragorn as a bid to secureelf friendly rule in Gondor and Arnor, Rohan supporting Gondor knowing full well they were their only option to survive Dunlending and Easterlings or the ents taking the only side which will not automatically anahilate their species) the main story still allows for escapism and doesnt get into puro pseudo historical got shenaningans (not critizising, just pointing out difference in tone and perspective of narrator). Anyway, loved the video

@GeordiSteve 10 месяцев назад

If you read the text around the "death" of the Witch-King it seems clear JRRT was setting up their potential return at some point:- 'Éowyn! Éowyn!' cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Éowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe. But lo! the mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they lay now on the ground...; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing..., a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that AGE OF THIS WORLD. Thematically it works as well, as you go from Morgoth, an actual Dark God, to his lieutenant Sauron, a Dark Angel, to his lieutenant in turn, the Witch-King, a powerful being yes but still just a fallen man. This de-powering is mirrored by the relative fall in power level of the forces of good as eventually the Middle-Earth universe converges with our own, as JRRT intended, and the Dark Lords of our time are reduced to just evil men, without any special magical powers, beyond the ability to persuade millions of people to enact their deranged beliefs, while those that stand against them are just normal good men trying to do the right thing.

@charliehill4951 Год назад

My own headcanon is that with the ending of the 3rd age and the beginning of the 4th, the age of men would present issues similar to those in the real world. Wars between the different peoples of the race of Men for resources, land, control etc. I think personally that Tolkien was hinting towards this, with all of the so called 'magical' creatures disappearing from the world. The dwarves delving deep into their mines, elves leaving for valinor and those who remain fading, ents essentially diminishing due to being unable to reproduce more entings, the orcs regressing with the destruction of the ring and having no leader to unite them.

@suiinside Год назад

there was a breath of wind, whispering in the ears of those distracted, to some it was like an encouraging and refreshing moment for others it spoke like a storm brewing in time people each as individuals listened and had their own thoughts of comfort or discomfort each time the wind sang songs in their ears like birds sing in the morning, yet less pleasing less relaxing as each translation became more crystallized people shared their stories, and few would share it was the wind who told them at first and at some point it led to new forms of poetry and song, and yet for a few, it led to new incantations, a form of word and spelling long forgotten a foothold was created, once it was said "no longer you will have a fair form" once it was said "he is dead now" but like the dead in the marshes and the oath breakers, those ring bearers found ways to cheat death, as they spoke to the living through the winds which sometimes came from that place long forgotten, that mountain of fire which was dormant now, but still could manipulate with each little rumble, like a belly of a hungry hobbit, but far more menacing yet muffled due to the lack of the memory of the people who lived now, and not back when it all seemed to matter more. just my take

@williammeek7218 8 месяцев назад

I know of two possible enemies who could become Dark Lords. The two blue wizards or Istari if you prefer. They were in the southern part of Middle Earth.

@loekegaard9 Год назад

Men of the West, you are a force for good in the world. I love that you invite people to join a conversation with you. I also believe the most likely candidate for a Dark Lord in the Fourth Age is a person (human) from the West - a dark-cult leader of some kind, as alluded to in The New Shadow. The only other candidate I can imagine is a mythological creature from unknown lands east of Mordor or south of Haradwaith - something previously unheard of or imagined in the history of Middle-Earth.

@christopherwarwick5956 Год назад

With the nomenclature of a dark Lord, there comes as sense of the Dark Lord himself being tied, or tying himself in some way to the fate of Arda. Sauron and the Rings, for example or Morgoths coveting of the Silmarils. For a New Shadow to work as a theme, it would need some artefact handed down from from the past, one that generates a need for dominion of the whole of the earth.

@Reymonidas Год назад

I've always been fascinated by the idea of a story narrating the wars of the Fourth Age, with King Elessar, Éomer and his son Elfwine, battling Khand, Harad and Umbar... only to find out that the tyrant leaders of those eastern and southern nations are none but Allatar and Pallando, the Blue Wizards themselves, turned into evil... even Tolkien himself considered them failing into the dark arts at some point, so that would be a possibility... and a very cool one I might add! There wouldn't be a Dark Lord, but two, not in the same degree as Sauron of course, but a worthy match for the High King and the King of the Mark!

@markaurelius8158 Год назад

How about the return of Ungoliant as the 3rd dark lord? Since Tolkien says no tale tells her fate she could technically reappear. Her return would be epic and scary as all hell.

@3xpoc3nt3r Год назад

New Subscriber here. I had a thought that a new Dark Lord could have been someone who had one of the unaccounted for Palantiri. Possibly a family heirloom who may have had an ancestor seeing through it while Sauron was still alive if the story was down the line in history. He could have learned from Sauron, or Sauron left behind some method for an acolyte through the Palantiri to revive him by means we don't know. And the new dark lord would really be another dark servant trying to revive/live up to his master.

@lol101lol101lol10199 Год назад

A corrupted elf at the head of a Morgoth-cult might have made a good Third Dark Lord. He'd have elven magic, ancient weapons of forgotten power, and a long enough lifespan to be the "defining threat of an age". If someone like, say, Thranduil went from slightly crazy and morally ambiguous in the 3rd Age to being Fallen and consumed by darkness in the 4th Age; that would be the perfect power-level for Dark Lord 3. Nothing like a Sauron, but hardly some random mortal man from Gondor either.

@ImperatorPenguin Год назад

Ungolient. We have no idea what happened to her after the Darkening of Valinor and she left Morgoth. She'd have legions upon legions upon legions of spiders, not to mention that we've no real idea what's to the south of Harad... least that's my thought.

@andrewd6438 Год назад

Please do a video on the differences between melkor and sauron!

@commandosolo1266 Год назад

If I were to write the return of evil to Middle Earth, I'd ask if the Witch King was wearing his ring in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, who picked it up, and might some residual power remain in it? Eowyn would be one scary dark lady.

@saltykrug Год назад

I always thought that is why Frodo had to leave where he could not become the new evil since he had been touched by Sauron so to speak. He was stabbed by a ring wraith. With the elves they could fully stop the turn during his life span whereas nobody could stop the evil permanently staying behind in Middle Earth. Plus, he had carried the one ring and it had turned him some.

@Eric-yo4qk Год назад

Yoystan has some of the best diction I've heard. He pronounces every consonant very distinctly. As for the topic. No, the next Dark Lord, even if a mortal man, would have to possess at least some true magical ability. It is a fantasy world, so I'd still want some "real" magic to exist in the world.

@_-_sinexus_-_ Год назад

Maybe a Necromancer like what Saruman believed Sauron to be during the hobbit? Less powerful than Sauron yet still capable of opposing a Kingdom.

@jameshitt3263 Год назад

Great video. In all likelihood, your conclusion that a new dark lord would probably be a human man, and thus reflect the overall decline in scale of pretty much everything (good and bad) starting from the First Age down to the Fourth, feels spot on. (And given Tolkien's own decision to abandon the new story because it was just too dark, this would have made for a much better candidate for a film/TV adaptation that would feel a lot more honest in a production with more modern sensibilities. Like you say, it could have a more conspiratorial, paranoid aspect that is very popular today, and they could even incorporate---very vaguely and deftly!---some Lovecraftian/chthonic elements.) However unlikely, it is conceivable that perhaps there is one more as yet disturbed Balrog still lurking under some mountain range somewhere. (Tangentially, I've often wondered what would've happened if the Balrog of Moria had acquired the One Ring. I personally lean towards him vying with Sauron, and---presuming a Balrog victory---then working to bring back his true master, Morgoth.) As for dragons, even if there were one remaining that was large and powerful enough, being a "dark lord" doesn't seem to suit their character to me. They seem more at home with staking their claim on some stolen city and its treasure, and terrorizing the locals for dinner. While still utterly malicious, they don't have the kind of global concern of a true dark lord. (Michael Swanwick's excellent book The Dragons of Babel has a great opening where this dragon sets himself up as a tyrant-god-ruler of some little nothing-village. Even for all his staggering power and total malice, he is also extremely petty. I can't recommend Swanwick's books enough. He knows how to write a dragon.)

@johns1625 Год назад

It's the dread bat Thuringwethil! Female Maia who was messenger of Sauron in the first age, taking form of a bat to deliver messages. 😍😍

@SnakeRoadComicsOfficial3677 Год назад

Personally I think an orc should be the next dark lord. In many of the movies some aspects of the books and in videogames we've seen orcs fully capable of being a leader. Azog, Lurtz, that ugly orc from the third movie, and Zog prove this.

@DaDunge Год назад

It could work since orcs are the corruption of elves. And the next tier down from the Maiar Sauron is an elf.

@theconstitarian Год назад

I think the next dark lord would be one or both of the blue wizards. If Gandalf was the only one of the five "remained faithful" true to the mission, then the blue wizards couldn't have simply tried and failed because that would be staying true. They either were corrupted like Sauron or just decided to do something else like Radagast (which seems unlikely that 3 of the 5 would have done that). I also think that Malar of Orome would be more corruptible. Orome is a hunter who has anger issues and himself was resistant to the Vala leaving Middle Earth. It wouldn't be surprising if his maiar shared some of these traits, and over the millenia of hunting evil in the east/south became tainted by their own anger.

@themandoesloreagain6148 Год назад

This is the way!

@Batkoku Год назад

The Necromancer was dismissed by Saruman as a human sorcerer; so there's a precedence there...I'd think it would be a long the likes of that. A human sorcere, who perhaps was following the bread crumbs left by the other dark lords, gaining knowledge and artifacts through the decades, until not a Maya, but a powerful human wizard which would reflect man's desire for power at all cost.

@endermanwithalowercasee Год назад

I believe that's only in the movie version though, not the textual canon. They knew the Necromancer was Sahron for hundreds of years before driving him out in the books if I remember correctly

@Batkoku Год назад

@@endermanwithalowercasee In the books, it's mentioned Sauron tried to steer them away, they suspected it might be Sauron, but they didn't know for sure; otherwise they would have attacked way earlier.

@endermanwithalowercasee Год назад

@@Batkoku Saruman actually long, held them off from attacking, in TA 2850 Gandalf discovered Sauron was the Necromancer, and from the White Council meetings from 2851 until 2941 they were constantly stopped by Saruman from attacking him. The only reason Saruman agreed to attack him in 2941 was to stop him from possibly finding the One ring first because by then he was actively searching for it.

@Batkoku Год назад

@@endermanwithalowercasee yup

@sandal_thong8631 Год назад

The forces of Gondor had to stay out of Minas Morgul since the evil that dwelt there would have remnants for awhile. I could see that sometime later, before they dared to destroy the city, a would-be Witch King goes there to learn what magics he can. However, the point of Sauron's fall was that magic in Middle Earth was fading.

@kevlarburrito6693 Год назад

Totally agree with you. Especially in terms of the conceptual idea of darkness or evil. Without either, there is little to measure good against, and so there will always be some sort of evil or darkness for Middle Earth (and by extension OUR Earth) to contend with.

@SheosMan117 8 месяцев назад

About halfway in, it makes me think: Can you imagine if the Blue Wizards got their story expanded upon? Be it their own TV show on Amazon, or a game. It would allow the writers a LOT of freedom to explore, because the Blues stayed away from the main conflict as we know it. So long as they don't force in cameos from people we DO know, they've got ALL the freedom.

@AdamMichalMarkowski Год назад

We still have void around the Arda where Melkor was thrown out and seems like other dark stuff lurked in there. I think if we have some sort of malicious cult, perhaps getting a bit of power summoned from great beyond be possible?

@allenzadok8330 Год назад

"The years of the Lamps and the years of the Trees ended when, or a few years after, Melkor destroyed the Lamps and the Trees. Classic Melkor." Dunno why but that made me chuckle so loud it woke the dog.

@andyburns5472 Год назад

Maybe Feanor gets out of the Halls of Mandos and starts to seek out the the Silmarils?

@user-cq4zp6zq4w Год назад

I think the most interesting 'new dark lord' scenario would be an Elf. Centuries or millenia after most of the magic had left the world of men, all the Dwarves had passed on or into myth, all the Elves left for the Undying Lands save for 1. This Elf would want to go against the wishes of Tom Bombadil and bring magic back to the world of men with a conventional army of men that the new band of heroes would have to contend with. As they fight harder and get closer to the central evil figure causing the strife, they are attacked with magic. A powerful Elf on the same level as Galadriel. Imagine the implications this would have.

@palpatine84 Год назад

It's an interesting topic to discuss. Have you read Nick Perumovs Ring of darkness books? There we see the rise of a new evil 300 years after the fall of Sauron.

@JosephGorndt Год назад

That picture at 5:50 is awesome. Who did that?

@williamgiusti7146 Год назад

My opinion is that Tolkien recognized that continuing the tale of Arda once the story he wanted to tell about it was over would be foolish and diminishing of his earlier works. It is very easy to get carried away by a work of fiction you dedicated so much time and effort to produce as we don't want to put down the pen and return into the real world, however, a truly great author knows when it's time to put fulfilled dreams to rest and enjoy real life. I say this because Star Wars, Harry Potter and Naruto (which while not as great as LotR are famous fantasy settings in their own right) all decided to produce sequels nobody asked for and the results were all disappointing. My best candidate for next Dark Lord are either one of the blue wizards who turned evil (which was at some point in Tolkien's mind before deciding their fates as unsung heroes) or a mad elf who refused to leave for the West and learned dark magic from Sauron's diminished spirit.

@chiconeededthemoney Год назад

I always speculated that the next enemy was the Mouth of Sauron who survived the destruction of Barad Dur and become a Dark Lord himself. He would have been much weaker because he was still a man, not a Valar or Maiar. Sauron was not killed but became a spirit of malice haunting the world with his evil.

@chiconeededthemoney Год назад

I also always speculated that as the End of Days approached that another Dark Lord, maybe even Sauron himself would reappear, to lead the forces of evil against the Free Peoples, the hobbits would come out of hiding, the Dwarves would come out of the mountains and the Elves would return from the Undying Lands, and fight to release Melkor and then the Valar would return and defeat him and his servants and the Vision of Iluvatar would be fulfilled.