X-Men Forever #4 Redefines the Beginning of the PHOENIX FORCE 

Mystique and Jean Grey are the only mutants to be so Mother, that they're Fathers.

i like how basically the phoenix, jean, and hope are basically the holy trinity

With all these reboot mutant titles in full swing. It confirms this far exactly what I thought prior. In that, i already miss the Krakoa era.

I think Jean did more than just put an idea in Louise's head. This issue confirmed that Hope is and always was a Phoenix fragment as long theorized. Jean uses a flame from the Phoenix to create Hope and in death, Hope becomes that flame aka Phoenix fragment and returns to Jean and the PF. Jean's mission post Endsong was to collect the Phoenix fragments. Right before Second Coming, those pieces exited the Cuckoos and it seemed it had to do with Hope's impending arrival as the final fragment to collect. Marvel however ditched that story and never tied it back to Jean. X-Men Forever fixxed that. Jean was aways involved. Id go further and say another intepretation is that Hope was Jean reincarnated (again as once theorized). She's finally back and merged with Jean bc she was an extension of her

It's x men tradition for there stories to eventually become messy 😂

I'm going to start wearing a "The Blerd Was Right" like how Magneto got one in Midnight Suns.

I didn't like the relationship with tony and Emma at first, it just didn't make sense but as the story progressed it grew on me. And it works out and I hope marvel lets them stay together.

The Phoenix is not unlike the dominions, in that it's outside of time, thus exists in every time, regardless of origin point, and could be argued to have multiple origin points. The Phoenix is Now and Forever.

Jean is the father, the Phoenix is the holy spirit and hope is the son. So Jean Grey is the ultimate mutant of all.

The writers didn't know what to do with all these mutants so they stuffed them in marvels locker room,i mean white hot room 😳 😅

"Jean Grey: Mother to many, birthed none" Cable: son of Madelyne, her clone Rachel: daughter of alt Phoenix in Jean's form Stryfe: clone of Cable Hope: implanted her in her human birth mother ("daddy" Jean) Phoenix: planted a spark that will become it in the being that will birth Hope - ("daddy" Jean) 😅😅 In a way, Hope IS also the Phoenix itself, as she pretty much is born of the dying spark of it, gestating to human form, growing up and becoming fuel to fan its flames in a future rebirth; at the same time, the Phoenix being a collection of all psychic potential we can always also say she is but a part, but considering this is considered her beginning and end loop (for a being that exists in multiple directions through time) she is what made her. Therein they've told the cycle of the literal mythological Phoenix where it rises from its own ashes and grows anew, so is always still the same Phoenix.

Mystique is basically Destiny's Absolute Point. If she loses her she can't see the future.

The open ended note that this issue ended on was good character progress for Nathaniel Essex, Hope Summers, and Destiny.

if Hope survives she can never let Exodus know who her "father" is or she will Never here the end of the JC comparisons

Like how they kinda answered the joke about Hope looking like Jean

I actually thought that Mystique and Destiny would break up or separate. Like, they would still love each other, but they separated to be the best versions of themselves, like Mystique doesn't get to be held down and caged by Destiny and her visions, and Destiny can use her full potential and see all probabilities and timelines without worrying about Mystique. However, it says that they are getting married, so... we'll see where that goes.

Now hope and thor are 1/3 siblings lol

I think it's the best we could ask for truthfully, Krakoa is essentially like Stovokor to the Klingon in Star Trek or Valhalla to the Norse. Better than DC did with Kandor lol

I think putting Krakoa in the White Hot Room is a perfect solution, it might provide a backdoor for mutant ressurection when Marvel wants to put characters on ice, or if they want to put a character on ice with out killing them they can take a sabbatical on Krakoa while stepping off the 616 stage for a period of time; it's like having your cake and eating it too.

this may be an unpopular opinion, but I think this makes so much perfect sense for Hope. Going all the way back to a baby, she had the Phoenix in her eyes.

Really enjoying the thumbnail style since this last month.

Well the Phoenix didn't die. Hope diving got them going into the Phoenix to complete the circle. The reason why it's unlikely that was to kill the Phoenix is Jean is still there. So the Phoenix didn't die when hope shot it.

Loved this retcon

You have reading X-Men comics you are "clairvoyant " to the stories that they put out. That's cool. Have you ever tried to create your own character(s) "sell" them to Marvel?

Calling it now. Krakoa is back by next year run by Magneto. Sidenote: imagine a “what if” with the Phenoix trying to eat the new ultimate universe... Throwing Maker as the hero leading the charge against

Also, will we see Louise Spaulding in an active role in the From the Ashes storyline, as we’ll have Hope come in properly to the 616 timeline, thanks to Jean giving Louise a virgin birth? Plus, her firefighter clothing hints as an influence to Hope’s suit. Also, it is Stephanie “Phillips” writing Phoenix #1. Btw, I feel bad for Luca not being able to depict Kafka’s facial marks and natural hair as Lukas was able to do. Btw, we’re seeing a New Krakoa in real time, maybe not in Forge’s design.

Great video

And make it look easy!

sigh... have they ended the convoluted Krakoa 'Fall' yet?? I miss Hickman HoX & PoX. And Apocalypse's story w/o the weird renaissance festival twist lol! How many times can Charles betray the X-men??

But why did Enigma need Hope's mom's consent? He's too gentlemanly to impregnate her christian god style?

Regarding the Fall of Krakoa, contrary to blending into the voices of people saying Krakoa must end for the next era to begin, I've always thought it did not need to end. This is what I meant by that, as I stated elsewhere that all we need are the following conditions: 1. The titular heroes and villains we follow are barred from the physical island (check - by being in the WHR, that portion of Krakoa is inaccessible to them) 2. The nation carries on with mutants self-governing (check - they're beginning to rely on themselves) 3. The crutch of resurrections and/or the Dominion/Moira/Sinister/Quiet council plot is no longer the massive driver of stories across all mutant books, or at least the goings on of Krakoa (check - Hope, a component of Res Protocols is gone, Egg, Elixir, Tempus and Proteus seems to be in the WHR) Now, yes, the 5 circuit can be remade with others, but I think being on a living Krakoa was meant to be part of the process, AND the cradle of cerebro backups - all other Krakoa islands are inert and the cradle is in the WHR.

PLEASE *mahvel* keep Tony x Emma. They're so arrogant, it works!😂

They didn't have to rush all these stories. Marvel CHOSE to rush all these stories.

Hope you'll have a good day

Didn't Northstar get married to his man? Both lived on Krakoa. I don't remember a wedding issue for them.

So honestly what’s the point? Phoenix shouldn’t be able to die and nor should Hope be able to kill it. It almost seems like Marvel is clearing the slate for this next era of X-Men retconning shit. All the non legacy characters they don’t know what to do with.

....uh, where's Legion, then?!?!?!?! He didn't survive that, did he??? I was kind of blinking at that page....

Morph n mystic the same character

Maybe this will make Destiny get closer to her kids.

these bots talkin bout call of duty is funny

if hope is like a jesus allegory, its easier to also see the phoenix as the holy spirit.

Blerd don't know shit... but his predictions are all too accurate

I can’t see the cover in whole 0:13 . 😢

So was Exodus right? Was Hope born to die, the Mutant "Messiah?"

W/o Hope Summers how are The Five gonna resurrect anyone? This is Wacksauce

X-Men Forever has lazy writing. I don't know, it's just not hitting as hard for what is basically the end of one of the best eras of X-Men in recent years.

Instead if doing away with thr Krakoa era just make something in space similar to the Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda. Let the mutants have a place of peace away from earth and even mars wheres they can thrive. We need a planet of mutants who have intergalactic influence down the line

Isn’t blindfold destiny daughter to

I wonder the reason why marvel got rid of hood and banish the five Maybe with them on the X-men death don t means a thing anymore And it become predictable in telling a story due to the fact that the five will bring Any mutant back from death So by getting rid of the five it makes story arc more interesting

So.....uh so what about Legion?

Yet more "Hope is mutant Jesus" vibes..."virgin" conception, living to young adulthood and then dying as a "sacrifice" to redeem the mutant race?

Why do all these Marvel writers think we want to read about the happiness of villains &murderers? Who cares about Destiny's relationship w/ Mystique they're evil they don't deserve a happily ever after. With a gang of people trying to off Charles they just happen to get to him in time so Destiny can get her memories back &then Mystique is rescued just in time as well...lets use this plot armor for the heroes or those that deserve a happy ending. But somehow Hope Summers is gone, bye bye, she's off the table &won't be seen for possibly years &same w/ Akihiro &Talon; is real version of X-23. But the mass murderers, serial killers &genocidal maniacs not only get to live on but they're thriving &living their best life &got their happy ever after. Naw there better be lots of more death &destruction cuz right now this is BS

Jesus 😂 so many people thinking the phoenix 🐦‍🔥 is some Christian thing. Even the Greek myth is not original. Hello avatars, sacrifice, evolution to godhood its in Hinduism and a lot of other indigenous traditions

So, what I took away from this issue is that: Jean is Hope’s *Father.* Hope is the *Son.* Phoenix is the *Holy Spirit.* All joking aside, it seems to want to undo the Phoenix Force retcon, and go back to the original Phoenix/Dark Phoenix arcs where Phoenix was simply Jean with her mutation evolving to its ultimate potential. As we all know, the “Phoenix Force” was a retcon because the writers wanted to bring back Jean Grey as a character and not hold her accountable for galactic genocide, so they retconned her going mad with her new god-like powers to be instead a cosmic force that duplicated Jean Grey. I vastly preferred the original story idea, but the Phoenix Force became so well-engrained into the comics going forward that I just took it as it was. But to see this issue imply Jean is indeed the Phoenix, and that she created it, and integrated it across all realities was something I never saw coming. And in a way, it sort of harkens back to when Hope was inferred to be a reincarnation of Jean Grey, before the idea was scrapped. Because it turns out she kind of is. And lastly: Jean joins Mystique as yet another mutant woman who is the Father of another. Equally as impressive as Jean having several children (Cable, X-Man, Stryfe, Rachel and Hope) despite never having gotten pregnant.

Nobody cares about the character Hope,her attitude, or her Mother.

Convoluted nonsense. How can a new rwader pick up this book and have any clue whats going on? Theae stories seem cool but but its time to clear the decks and move on from the never ending mutant reboot.