Get the best in class communicator with Cardo! Use code SPITE10 for 10% off! bit.ly/3IUZ1hM --- Also quick update because I know someone's going to mention it, the R1 is still available as a TRACK ONLY bike, but not for street use effectively discontinuing the bike.
The reasons for the R1 and other super sports bikes being dropped in Europe is more to do with the fact that people just aren’t buying them . The days of the super sports 600 being 30% of the bikes sold (over 125cc)is long gone and with insurance costs and ever tightening speed law enforcement litre bikes sadly have had their day. I do find it sad that the R1 is gone but I can’t remember seeing that many on the road over the last few years or for that matter any litre bikes.
You are forgetting one from your list. Emission laws. 600's/1000's are not popular so they are not worth the r&d costs of passing the emission regulations.
For real i haven't seen a single R1 being sold in my country and it used to be the most popular sport bike but the costs like you mentioned are off the roof and people don't have that disposable income for a toy anymore and yes a sport bike is a toy , you cant travel and commute with that bike unless you are crazy. The tracer on the other hand is selling like hotcakes and i don't know why they haven't released a Tracer10 yet.
@@getty6974 Emissions was just the final nail in the coffin but the most popular big bike in the UK has been BMW’s GS1200 /1300 for some time . The litre bikes have become too much for the road over 120mph in 3rd gear and riding positions that are crippling at less the the national speed limit and capable of taking all but the best riders beyond their ability way too quickly. They used to sell over a thousand Fireblades a year now I doubt that a thousand litre bikes from all manufacturers combined are sold.
Everyone should have a litter bike in their garage for when they want to feel alive. I get not wanting to ride it every day, but you should always have that option on tap.
A lot of people predicted that the R1 would get the axe mostly because it's cheater engine. It's uniqueness is also it's handicap in this case, there is no substitute for displacement. Fewer and larger cylinders are appearing in everything, not just motorcycles. Note that you have to look harder to find a V8 in a car, even in trucks, the standard engine is now a V6. Most SUVs have I4 engines. The number of cylinders are going down. That said, I'm surprised to see a more powerful S1000R/R. That seemed like it came out of the left field when liter bikes are being retired. That said, I don't think it's the end of Liter bikes. I suspect you're going to see complete new bikes to replace them. But I also think you're going to see more manufactures roll out hybids and EV bikes soon, they may be getting ready for Moto GP to bring out a category for those bikes. Racing helps with innovation, that would certainly help to push battery and hybrid technology.
Can't speak for all of Europe, but I have a pretty good idea about Sweden since I live there. It's about buying price and ownership cost. The R1 and the likes are expensive and the yearly insurance cost is insanely high on big sport bikes, especially if you're a younger rider. And those are rare cause by the time most people reach a financial situation to be able to afford one, they are 40y or more. And when you're at that age, you probably want something that isn't gonna kill your wrists, back and knees after 10 min of riding. Add in a very short summer, a very long, cold, snowy and dark winter, not many tracks to go track day riding on, speed limits that are set low (too low in many places)... a super bike just doesn't make sense. Most people I know who ride either use their bikes for commuting and some occasional weekend fun, mostly on naked bikes 600-800 ish cc or comfy sport bikes like the Aprilia RS 660, or they use their bikes for touring, and then they usually go for a GS (a Goldwing if they are 60y+) or similar. I ride a Honda cb 600f Hornet from 2007, so I get to enjoy an inline 4 screamer, without constantly worrying about the inevitable loss of license that comes with a R1 type bike. And I get to use more than just 1st and 2nd gear. I think Yamaha's decision has a lot more to do with low sale numbers than euro 5+. Sure, there are still some squids out and about, but they are few and far between these days.
@@PEZ1514well the Hayabusa is a bigger engine and has slightly less power than the previous gen. Yes it's possible to continue making them but it all comes down to sales, I heard 1 guy say they sold less than 50 R1s in the UK in 2023, if it's the same or less in other EU countries you're still looking at under 1000 bikes a year for an entire continent, that's not worth the money. Honda just reintroduced the CBR600RR and Kawasaki still make the ZX6RR but I feel like the primary focus is the US market and not Europe, if sales don't do well they're likely to just drop it again because they're still a business so they won't invest in something that doesn't make money
I strongly feel it's a business choice first and foremost, but EU5 simply makes a contentious choice easy. The reality is the R9 is an R6 replacement. Similar peak power but WAY more power down low, it's an objectively superior machine across the board. Triples are cheaper to maintain and produce, larger displacement is easier to pass emissions. There's not really a replacement for the R1 and R1M simply because they're extremely expensive and don't sell many. Note however, you can still buy an MT10 or MT10SP, and while these are down a bit on peak power, you can close the gap a lot with a simple flash. But the MT10 is MUCH more street friendly.
I've got a 22 XSR900 and it's a way better bike than any of those 1990's supersports were. More power, less weight, much better rider aids, WAY less insurance cost adjusted for inflation assuming same rider ages, relatively cheaper adjusted for inflation, less maintenance intervals, much easier to ride safely. And yet, I do see an R9 being able to do what my former CRB600F2 could do; commute most of the time, do Sunday group rides, and do the rare track day. The XSR900/MT09 are more akin to fair weather commuters due to their lack of fairings.
There is a guy on my local FB Marketplace that listed his R1M for $60k after the news dropped! It was listed at around $24k for months beforehand so not sure if the guy was trolling.
i can see how a combination of poor sales and cost of keeping it in regulations... i can also see how a company might point at a regulation and use it as a scapegoat....happens all the time.
When you talk about powerband for the MT-09 being more similar to an R6 than an R1 I’d like some clarification on what you mean? The hp number is similar to an R6. The powerband of the R6 is higher than the MT-09 revs too. In the powerband you can theoretically shift to the next gear without a significant drop. The MT is there around 7k rpm and the R6 is around 12k rpm. So I’m saying if you went wot with an MT-09 in 1st gear and shifted at 7k rpm, you can shift to 2nd and the rpm is still in the meat where it won’t fall on its face. You can basically quick shift every gear at that point and the bike will still keep pulling. I could be wrong but that’s always been my understanding
I absolutely love my 08 ZX10R with it's raw, rip your face off power and zero nannies like abs, traction or wheelie control. At 22k miles, she doesn't use any oil and leakdown is still at 96% and very quiet valves with no adjustment needed yet. When the engine does get tired, I'll just tear it down and rebuild it but I don't see that being needed until 50-70k miles.
I liked the Shadetree style intro. I think RE and the Italians are showing you can sell modern, air-cooled engines. My question is will MT10 remain available in Europe?
The irony is that many folks here in Euro land rip all the Euro 5/4 stuff off their bikes on purchase. Certainly here in the UK, there is no testing after purchase to ensure the bike isn't putting out more emissions than allowed.
My dad owned a Bulltaco when he was stationed in Italy. His motorcycle produced 25 horsepower. That was plenty of power for what he needed in Italy. I am looking at motorcycles for driving in the States. Where I live and how big I am, 90 horsepower would be the bear minimum.
EU5 definitely is killing the inline fours. 4 cylinders in general struggle with vapor loss at the rings being the biggest blame. Every EU 5 bike I've ridden is too lean below 5,000 RPM and require retunes if emissions are modded. There's a reason why we're singing all these twins and it's not just cost. Manufacturers are also being forced to buy expensive Bosch injection to meet the latest emission standards. Ill find me a mid-2000s super sport The bigger thing better about modern bikes is the technology cause it's not the horsepower.
I know I can’t speak for anything other than my tiny little region of Appalachia, but I work at a dealership and the CBR, Ninja, and GSXR 1000s don’t sell good for us (we haven’t had an R1 in the almost 2 years I’ve been there).
As a former R6 owner and a current R7 owner; The R7 makes so much more sense for the street, that is not even comparable. And the R7 is perfectly capable of running in track at very quick pace with no problem. The reason Yamaha is canning the R1 is Euro5+. It may seem like having that tightening regulation around the catalytic converter is not that much, but on a bike where there isn't currently a gas gauge, it may be more involved than we realise. And likely they are not selling enough to compensate the cost of development. Gotta think that Euro compliance is a moving goal post. Now it's Euro5+, in two to three years it will be Euro6 and so on Yamaha is likely going to do the same thing as with the R6. Keep it track-only and develop it like that for racing purposes while it is being sold in the US. And based on those numbers and the way they are competing in different categories they may just take it out back and shoot it... Meanwhile the R9 is being developed with the team TenKate in WSSP at least the race version. I cannot wait to see the street version.
That's kinda what I think, but it would still need the cat stuff done. One wonders why they would do it to one and not the other, but the MT10 probably sells better.
@@shauns5278but the new regulations doesnt have anything to do with the engine, its all about passing durability tests for the catalytic and forcing the manufacturer to show the owner some information about the bike thru OBD2
I think the emissions have goven them a chance to rebrand, hear me out: They'll work on Euro 6 compliance then release an R10. This will allow them to rebrand with the R3, R7, R9 and R10. Just how I see it. Also, litre bikes are still insanely popular where i live in europe. The new R7 etc are hardly seen.
Liter bikes are just too expensive now which makes them a far less attractive option. I’m on my second R1, and I’ve owned a CBR1000RR, and I absolutely love liter bikes. I’ve owned and ridden other style of bikes and, to me, they are just plan boring. My XSR900 was a nice bike but it just was not exciting to ride. I’m fortunate enough that when I bought my newest R1 I walked into the dealer with an envelope full of cash. I know most people aren’t in that position, and if they wanted a $20k bike they would need to finance it. With today’s interest rates of 6 to 7%+, it’s just a really hard pill to swallow. I believe this is a huge contributing factor to people buying far fewer of these bikes.
Its just emission regulation problem in EU, they have done the same to other cars produced in Asia. They don't want to bother to make adjustments because the market to those bike's (high end motorcycles) are not selling enough when compared to the lower performance oriented bikes to justify the cost in development of a new product to meet the EU emission standard.
The thing is that liter bikes seem to be out of fashion the trend is something else. people seem to be going for adv's, retro's or nakeds instead so it makes sense that OEM's focus on those types it's the same with gear i prefer something with white and red but when i walk into a motorcycle store 75% is black 15% is highviz and the rest is other businesses want to make money so they follow the trends this also means that not everyone will find something they want which is s shame.
In regards to the demand for top-of-the-line, bleeding edge supersport bikes, I think those bikes and TVs have been following a similar pattern. Because back in 90s-early 2000s, there was huge leaps and bounds in the technology and everyone was excited to shell out huge amounts of money for those. Plasma/LCD TVs were *way* wider, thinner, sharper than the old CRTs. And supersports were leaps and bounds above anything else available in nearly every way. And yeah, over time the technology has continued to improve, but they've been incredibly marginal from year to year. And because the bar is just so high, no one but the most skilled racers and discerning cinemaphiles can even make out the difference between this year's model and the one from 5 or even 10 years ago. Meanwhile, all the 5 year old tech that still covers 99% of people's needs has become incredibly affordable and trickled down the line, so there's *no need* for most customers to seek out the utmost highest tech in existence considering how good the rest of the lineup has become. Now they can get as much tech and performance as they'll ever actually want or need, in a more comfortable/versatile package that now fits the rest of their needs... Because *everything* is so good, there's less and less need for the *best*.
There are few new riders, and these few, me included, usually favor lower cost and lower power bikes. That's also why the retrò wave hit so hard and why it is becoming more and more common to see small retò bikes. It's not just that the R1 got discontinued, it's also that, at the same time, smaller 400cc bikes are taking over the market in Europe too. Look at triumph, aprilia, Royal Enfield just to make some examples. Soon also a 400 Guzzi will come.
umm the power delivery isn't that different between a R1 and Panigale V4. The R1's crossplane engine is designed for more linear power compared to traditional inline 4s. Your hypothesis doesn't make sense given that Kawasaki continues to update its traditional inline 4s with peaky engines. Same can be said with BMW continuing to update and innovate its S1000RR and 1000 XR bikes. Supersport/Superbikes are still popular, just that some manufacturers just don't want to focus on that market anymore which is fine. But we continue to have companies like Ducati/Aprilia where that is their primary market.
The market as a whole for sport bikes is dying. It is exceptionally bad in the EU. Kawasaki is making moves with the zx4rr and 636 sure, but they are the only one. European sport bikes have two things going for them. They are homologation bikes, and they have that same allure that EU performance cars have. Middle weight bikes are killing it in the EU. Even stuff like the RE 650 line is absolutely selling as fast as they can be made. Bikes like the Triumph 765 and Duke 790/890 are doing super well for people who want some spirited riding while still being comfortable. And for 1000cc and up, there are tons of options that are far more streetable than even the very easygoing (by liter bike standards anyhow) S1000RR. Just because some of us still like seeing sport bikes on the road, less of us are buying them than before. Even fewer are buying them new. For most people who have to consider money, a 3-5 year old bike makes more sense than a fresh off the lot bike.
@@Ephem13 3 to 5 hahaha. My bike is 8 years old and had 6k miles used. I've put 300 to 400 miles on it. Although I don't even believe those numbers lol. I bought it used, stock everything. Baby Ninja 300. *edit* It's not stock everything anymore.
@@spitescorner Tangentially related, but have you ever ridden the Ducati Super Sport? If I didn't have four bikes already that looks like it would be a lovely daily rider while still being a sporty ride.
Bang on. You see few super sports EU side. If they sold any they would get them compliant. Everyone else does it with riding modes. Sure they could have done it by having an eco- riding mode. Their issue is low sales.
The first thing I and everyone I know does when they get a new bike is put a straight pipe exhaust on and get the ECU flashed and all the factory BS settings taken off. As it should be. Let them breath and roar.
I have been riding a Hornet 600 for almost a year. When I push the 1st gear to its limit I'm already above the speed limit on regular roads, which is pretty frustating, so I can't even imagine what it's like on a 1000cc. Inline 4s aren't fun on the road unless you're willing to lose your license. The ZX4R might be a smart move from Kawazaki though (in Europe at least since it seems it's restricted to around 50hp in the US).
What ever it's going to ... a parallel 2-zylinder covers it all! That hits the emission standards, makes quite enough torque for cruising and stops the insanity of reving to encounter the max HP of an R4. O.K. ... 😁... I'm glad to keep my 08' CBR1000RR with perfect hardware but without electronics and needless BS, but those days are gone! Now you've got stealframes with welded subframes and electronics which compensate the unrideabhilate due to weight. Price doubled, while hardware became BS. For advanced riders there is absolutely no gain. I started with 2-strokes and I can't stand the BS of nowadays anymore. Of course for beginners it's much easier but they will never be reallly convident and in extreme situations it will hit them like a rock.
It is sad, but understandable. I own a CBF 600, and that Bike is more than enough to have Fun on the streets. I can fly over the Autobahn with that bike, and it is comfortable for commuting and longer travels.
13:25 I hope you are right. Because Kawasaki just announced they are leaving WSBK and giving their zx10r engine to Bimota. I hope kawasaki continues to sell the zx10r for the road for 10+ years more.
As a person who never rode a liter bike I can't really understand the power they put out or even is worth owning. I own a 750 and for me it's really a great street bike. Can't imagine needing anything bigger. I can imagine more power is a different kind of fun. But you can use less of it on a daily base before going way too fast. Might go test riding on 1000's at some point same for lower cc's just to get the riding in and test the bike out.
Not selling enough bikes to justify the R&D investment to develop the new emission bike, is the only reason to discontinue. If the bikes were more popular, they will totally continue making more money.
If we really wanted to be honest even 100hp is overkill, and so, going 200hp is like taking a bazooka against a mosquito. That I can understand some people might just want it just to have it. Personally I don't have the kind of money to burn and even if I did I still wouldn't feel inclined.
Due to the incredibly complicated, and expensive to obtain, licence system in the UK and EU. Bikes are not as aspirational as they were when I was a teenager. You still have people buying 125's, at 17. But a vast number of those move onto 4 wheels as soon as they can afford to. If you go to any UK bike meeting, the vast majority of the bikers will be 40+. With born again bikers, or those having taken the direct access route making up a surprising number of those attending. Sitting on an uncomfortable sports bike, is just about acceptable when you are younger. But starts to get a little too much, as age creeps up on you. I think it's as much, or more, to do with the age demographic affecting sales, as it is to do with emissions regs.
Question is now,what is this move gonna do to secondhand R1s' values;are they gonna go up due to increasing exclusivity, or plummet because of being out of fashion?
I still have my FZR 400. Most people can't believe how fast a little 400 is. 60hp 140mph is plenty for most people.. better frames and suspension today way better fuel mileage and cheaper insurance.
Spike, agreed. The goodness of fit for a litre bike super sport on twisty European roads follows a candidate for removal from the marketplace. Euro 5 regulations make a convenient fig leaf of an excuse.
The ONLY thing that worries me about it is that if they completely cancel the R1, will they continue MT-10 production, or will we lose that sweet juicy CP4 engine? 😢
Speeding tickets have killed those bikes. Guys who have balls to escape from cops and hide their license plate are not making massive sales for literbikes and not common anyway.
The Euro norm is becoming insane. The one for cars wants something to measure how much tire and brake pads pollution the car produces. They had to pospone that part because well…. obviously nobody knows how to do that BS.
After this news i'm very curious about what will happen to the competition side of things; WorldSBK has been relying on supersports even after discontinuing the R6 but with this blow i wonder if Supernakeds/nakeds will take their place.
I think that within 10 years we're gonna see more permissive rules regarding handlebars and fairings, to allow for naked bikes to be used as base models for superbike racers.
I don’t know why a lot of ppl are mad and sad, i mean it feels like Yamaha wanted any excuse to stop making the R1, it was showing its for some years and they never thought about upgrading anything, for me i would be really sad if they discontinued the Fireblade.
It's probably more likely that Yamaha aren't selling enough R1's in Europe to justify the cost of updating the motorcycle for that market. But I'd argue that we have it worse here in Australia. We lost the Honda CT125, Grom & Monkey because of our mandatory dual channel ABS laws for new bikes & Honda wouldn't spend the money to update them. We still get the i4 liter bikes in all four flavours, but that might not last long with new emissions regulations coming in soon.
because we stopped buying their over priced crap, member when an R1 was 8 grand new, yeah now they want 8 grand for the same bike second hand 10 years later because they ramped up the milking. No one wants to pay 19k on a bike they might get 14 for if they re sell it in 2 years time, when they can buy a Big Bang for 6 grand that should still be worth about 6 grand until it dies, with inflation 6 grand is going to be the $500 motor of 10 years ago.. insurance companies desperate to just write anything off, thats something we should talk about.. they always gonna recover the costs too so we pay more, insurance should be a choice, not a tax. And it shouldnt be 1/3 the cost of the vehicle, id rather dispose of junkers in a society like that and thats why so many people drive uninsured.. it keeps those junkers off the shopping list tho doesnt it, when was the last time you see a car you could buy for $100, nowdays one wheel is worth it to a breaker..
Just to add to your comment, I have a Z900 and can get a reckless driving ticket (20 over the 70MPH limit) and never get it into 4th gear. I would say anything over 120HP is more ego driven than anything else.
Ya i just added comp on my gsxr for spring and rates went up again which i knew before buying id be lying if i said it dint sting or slightly regret it
Also I seen how well they treat peoples bikes, you seen what they have done to the Crash Test Goat? His bike has been in the shop more than out of it, I wanted an R1M till i see how they gave him a good servicing... Hell my company was gonna have a fleet of them eventually as delivery bikes, but nah not now..
I have never seen/heard an R1 in person. So what does that tell you? Also people are just realizing how impractical and downright bad super sports are for the street. No one‘s gonna buy a $20,000 plus motorcycle that only wants to be ridden on a race track.
now what will happen to the MT-10, the engine is based on the R1 only detuned for more mid range...... as for Kawasaki and Honda, I think they will battle it all out.. the ZX-6R and 10R are still here, as the CBR-600RR and 1000RR-R as well. According to Kawasaki and Honda's Japanese website they are still available for purchase. Hopefully Yamaha and Suzuki will realize they made a huge mistake and will ignite a new super sport and super bike shootout again.....
Sport bikes are just not what europeans want anymore in any significant numbers. Neither are cruisers, which is why all Japanese cruisers disappeared from the European market a few years ago with the introduction of the EURO5 standard, the manufacturers simply didn't bother to update them. The average age of european motorcyclists is ever increasing, so crouching over a sport bike or slouching on a feet forward cruiser simply doesn't fit our aging bones. But trikes should have a bright future!
Could be the new rules for Moto GP had something to do with It? On another video I watched, they mentioned changes to the rules coming in 2025. One of the rules was something like 850cc to 900cc bikes or something like that. Just throwing it out there.
The pollution rules are aimed at pushing everybody to electric or public transportation. And, it has nothing to do with climate change or the environment.
I like watching Spite over Yami since Yami just seems to be extremely biased when it comes to motorcycles. If it doesnt go fast and isnt a good "track bike" he doesnt like it.
Yamaha and CF moto teamed up last year. Wasn't there a rumor of CF moto making a V4 a while back? Maybe the V4 will replace the R1 in a couple of years
@@spitescorner Since your channel, has grown as much as it has, maybe you could get some real numbers for the different categories of bikes. The data thats available to the public is not detailed enough to differentiate between sport bikes, ADV bikes, naked bikes, etc. At least not that I can find. That would be a great video if you could get some real numbers to show trends for the different categories. IF, IF you can get the data.
So on the one hand Kawasaki and Honda are bringing back their 600's to the european market, while Yamaha is getting rid of them. I definitely respect Kawasaki more than Yamaha now.
I also think the liter bikes are losing their appeal because of the excessive power. The 2023 R1 made a claimed 198 HP. A 2023 636 makes 127HP. When the R1 was released it was around 148HP Nevermind the cost. And you mentioned it toward the end. Liter bikes are not really practical. That's why I own an 2021 MT-09SP. I always refer to it as the "Old Man Sport Bike" All the fun without the pain of riding a supersport. That said I will own an older late 90's early 2000's inline 4 Japanese supersport at some point just for nostalgia
Practically speaking it's NBD. You can still buy used track prepped R1s all day. And no matter what anyone says something like an R1 doesn't make sense anywhere but a race track.
Riding a Yam FZ8 here in Holland only i hate it now because they are fffing up the roads here whit all the speed bumbs here it,s not fun to ride any more on some roads ,me looking fore a roadtouring and offroad bike ....... looking in the BMW F 900 gs adventure 2024 whit the Tropfy packets upgrade fore a new bike
I'm sad to see the R1 go but it's also hard to justify a 23-31k price tag for going commuter speeds. Here in EU there's speed cameras everywhere, so on a liter bike you might as well toss out the gearbox and stay in first everywhere.
I hate that these bikes are getting cancelled, but it worked in my favour. Because I'm from Malta and I have the only modern model GsxR1000 on the island, and now no one can import another one. All the other Gixxers here are from 2016 and before, mine is a 2020.
So basically Euro so called Standards are killing the fun and joy in motorcycles. Next thing you know all motorcycles will be illegal and we go back to the days of riding horses. Euro so called standards needs to take a chill pill!
