At this price, polyphonic aftertouch is a pretty weird place to skimp on the 6 and 7, considering the Hydrasynth Explorer, Atom SQ, and Microfreak are all throw-away cheap in comparison and all have that feature. The lack of step sequencing (super easy on the much cheaper KeyStep Pro), and 16 voice limit on the VA engine also seem strange at this price point. That said...everything else seems pretty awesome and I kind of want one. XD
This is the closest thing to a synth 'conspiracy theory' I can think of. Poly AT, like any other tech, could've become cheaper and more common over time and it just.... hasn't, with the exception of the Hydra. Why?
@@MichaelCoombes776true. Most of these companies just have not got with the times. They still act like its the 90s. Grooveboxes coming gimped with tiny amounts of ram, samplers not having resampling, synths missing basic features, etc. Im sure it is a market refusing to cheapen thing. How can we sell the 4000 dollar synth if the 800 dollar synth has everything?
I so agree. A peculiar choice. Surely there will be many frustrated by this decision, including players who travel their instrument, and that’s a lot of customers.
You could for the sake of standardization of a description compare the aftertouch to the feeling of Novation aftertouch because they use Fatar keybeds which are used on quite a few brands. There is a list online.
Honestly shout out to ASM for bringing poly aftertouch back into the mainstream, without the Hydrasynth I'm not sure if we would have all these poly AT synths and keyboards coming out nowadays!
Behringer had their PAT keybed finished in 2019, I wouldn't say that ASM deserves anything, PAT keybeds have been around for an eternity. A ton of synths respond to PAT too.
The credit should go to Arturia and their Microfreak, which gave everyone a different synth with PAT for a reasonable price while other companies keep charging a premium for the feature.
After so much time shopping for my next workstation, I have to say Roland, Korg, Akai, all are not impressing me. All have some good stuff, but Yamaha seems to be running away with the ball! Two screens? Really nice layout. Far more abilities! M8X is so beautiful. Price though, up to Nord Stage 4! Decisions decisions.
It's *really* difficult to find a good light-feeling quality semiweighted keybed these days. Either they have so much resistance that they're going to give you tendonitis (AKAI MPK line), or they have randomly hot keys meaning velocity isn't calibrated evenly between white and black keys (the NI Kontrol S-series quality control needs some serious retooling). The Montage M6/M7 is by far the best semiweighted action I've ever played on. Try pushing your finger up the board even on the black keys - it doesn't require much more force to depress the key even at the absolute top. I didn't think I've find a semiweight action that could compare and exceed some of the better Fatar actions (TP/80 waterfall comes to mind on some of the Nords), but this is it. And look it only took a mere three grand to get there. Fantastic.
Looks incredible in many ways, but being able to put a finger/object, not to mention dust, into the side of the keybed is one of the most ridiculous design oversights I have seen on a keyboard in a long time tbh.
Just don't get how someone builds a workstation and then throws in the least useful sequencing tools possible. A QY has more flexibility than the seq on this.
FINALLY... been waiting for your review. Amazing there aren't any other pro-level reviews out there! I've had some time on an M8X and it's a stunning machine in so many ways. Can't wait to do a proper review as well. Great to see yours!
Good thing: the touch screen reacts to touch very fast (compare to e.g. the Neumann MT48 interface touch screen which is really slow.) Although Yamaha would really benefit from increasing their UX/GUI team's skills*. There's plenty to do in this to make it much more intuitive and user friendly. * Or having the chief product officer let the UX/GUI team have enough time/budget to use their skills.
It's strange that Korg and Yamaha want to enthuse us with those touch screen interfaces but can't even allow themselves to be less greedy and give us a big capacitive touch screen when those are dirt cheap nowadays. Or give us the capacity to plug an external display, keyboard and mouse. When you consider the size of the display on the Korg OASYS, Korg only went the downgrade way for the Kronos and Nautilus.
Most M videos are "look how good I can play" or only sounds w/no talking or random comments or comparisons etc. but few are this professional and actually help you learn how to do stuff. Thanks Loopop!
TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. EVEN THE ALMOST 2INCH THICK OPERATION MANUAL DOES NOT "EXPLAIN HOW" TO DO FUNCTIONS PER SAY BUT MORESO "EXPLAINS WHAT" THE FUNCTIONS ARE. THAT IS ALL FINE AND DANDY BUT EXPLAINING WHAT PRE SUPPOSES THAT YOU ALREADY UNDERSTAND THE UNDERLYING CONCEPTS. THIS IS THE FIRST AND ONLY (SO FAR) VIDEO THAT I HAVE FOUND THAT ACTUALLY EXPLAINS THE WHAT, WHY , AND HOW. EVEN MY BOY DOM'S VIDEOS PRESUPPOSES AREN'T QUITE AS DETAILED AS THIS VID IS. IN ALL FAIRNESS THOUGH I SUPPOSE DOM BEGINS AT AN INTERMEDIATE LEVEL. I SEARCHED AND SEARCHED AND SEARCHED AND THIS IS THE 1ST TIME I'VE HEARD OF THE 3 LEVELS OF A PERFORMANCE. THE PERFOMANCE, THE PART, AND THE ELEMENT. MAKES SO MUCH SENSE NOW. MOST OF THE OTHER VIDS I'VE SEEN, EVEN YAMAHA PRODUCED VIDS JUST GO ON AND ON DEMONSTRATING THE SOUNDS, WHICH ARE AMAZING. BUT THIS VID TRULY EXPLAINS HOW TO EDIT SOUNDS, NOW I'VE GOT TO SEARCH (SOME MORE) FOR A VID THAT SHOWS HOW TO USE THE MONTAGE M WITH CUBASE 13 PRO. HAVEN'T FOUND A GOOD ONE YET. ALSO HOW TO USE THE MONTAGE M AS A CONTROLLER FOR MY DAW IN WINDOWS(CUBASE) BY THAT I MEAN A VID AS GREAT AS THIS ONE. EXCUSE THE RANT ON YOUR COMMENT, BUT YOU REALLY NAILED IT AND EXPRESSED EXACTLY HOW I FELT ABOUT OTHER VIDS COMPARED TO THIS ONE.
Yamaha is terrible at taking advantage of the touch screen. For example, dealing with patters and not having any sort of grid or piano roll option is stupidly archaic.
Can you also explain a Soviet-era nuclear submarine? They're less complex By far this is the best video on Montage, BTW. Excellent job. What do you think of the filter on AN-X vs. the true analog filter on Roland?
I guess no time to mention the addition of the leslie simulator and reverse faders for organ. That's OK, I was aware of those already anyway. I was disappointed there are not nine faders to accommodate the drawbars. Something I still don't know about the Montage M (and original Montage) is how it handles nine drawbars with only eight faders. Does one fader do double duty?
@@CharlesFerraro No. I just meant that the original Montage also used its eight faders as drawbars since it had a preset called All 9 Bars. And I didn't know how that worked either. There isn't really an organ engine. There are just organ samples and a leslie simulator. Though I'm not sure what you might call an organ engine. The Korg Kronos CX-3 engine generates the organ tones and you can call that an engine. But I believe the Hammond clonewheels are based on samples. At least my Hammond XK-3c is. So maybe the Montage qualifies as an "engine" as well.
I just got the M8X. I've been learning it for a few days. Its going to take me a month of rewatching this video to fully absorb everything you showed here. Truly excellent info! How long did you work with it before releasing this video?
When will they add again a vl engine! Am I the only one who worships Yamaha for that ??? Ok for the analog ok for the fm synthesis.. But Physical modeling synthesis is wonderful..so tired from all these sample playback engines.. I think korg in their next flagship should also put the z1 engine or an evolution… I really miss vl1 and z1.😢
Thank you so much! I just got mine and as a musician with a small tech knowledge it’s fantastic to get your knowledge on youtube! I love the keybed and the presets are great for basic songwriting. I believe this instrument will be in my studio for a long time!
I noticed another big item that's very important, not sure you covered it or sorry I might have missed it. The improved PAC coupled with the improved AMW2 bit depth combined for noticeable upgraded voicing. I don't happen to have both versions side by side but some have said it's a considerable improvement over the original. I've also heard some say they had to push really hard to activate PAT and so they returned their M8x. If you pull up the PAT page and play with the ratio it really jumps out. The stock PAT voices have it extremely subtle but that's just the way it was programmed. It's actually very customizable including sensitivity curve options as well.
what these companies should do is make a tablet-based touch display dock that runs off apps and controllable/programmable instead of having to reinvent the wheel on every model iteration. focus more on the piano keyboard, the physical knobs, sliders, pads and switches, connections, and the strengths of what can do while interfacing what most already use in the form of a common tablet.
Is there any modern VST that has a full library of multisample that's on this level? I know that Omnisphere exists but are there any more? Would be awesome to have something like AWM as a plug-in
Try Unify by Plugin Guru - allows many similar funtions (with your own VSTs as well!). It allows for many layers, patterns etc. Not quite as smooth in workflow terms.. but VERY flexible.
An interesting question in terms of evolution would be, if the new version does recall its state before it was switched off ? I mean, this is a computer, and it should be able to write a small file describing which patch or combi it currently uses. Lemondrop can do it. M3 can do it. Also Jd-xi and Micro-x, and Miniak, IIRC. But the OG Modx can not.
Nice job as always. I will respectfully disagree on the PAT. 46 years since CS80 and Vangelis said you don't actually have a real instrument until you have PAT on it. He is well respected since I'm an unknown so I refer to his comment concerning PAT. No player can make a synth speak unless they use a fixed motion program or remove their hands from the keys or use a pedal/switch that typically effects all notes sounding. Not that PAT is a new invention but it's revolutionary with respect to this type digital music synth. There are others with MPE & PAT but not to this scale on a flagship synth with multiple engines. Try PAT on AWM2 to detune EPs etc. it's so realistic because that's how acoustic instruments behave. Marching bands sound unique because every player is slightly out of tune and it varies from note to note in real time. It's actually a fundamental character of real instruments, not a flaw. Fixed, perfectly in tune, on/off notes are kind of like a computer playing them instead of real humans. It's mostly a characterless sound no matter how nice a timbre it has. For example the Osmose isn't an authentically sampled instrument yet because it has character and expression it's far more interesting to listen to and play than a pure AWM2 voice. AWM2 says (na, NA, na, Na, na) but PAT /MPE says (Na-oh, na-eh, na-ya, na-ye, na-ro..infinity). Not even close to boring, dead on/off switched sounds. If someone thinks that's not a big deal if not revolutionary I don't understand their thinking. It's like saying a McDonald's hamburger is similar to a filet minion steak. This is why Guitar players stand on the front edge of the stage and keyboard is in the back. True those aren't as portable but think about the solo aspect or a Saxophone in the 80s. The sax and guitar can bend notes, vibrate, detune and modulate which is what people want to hear. It's all about real time expression.
Thanks! I guess I don't place a high value as you on the expressive capabilities of PAT as it's implemented on most current keybeds because I've been spoiled by instruments like the Continuum and Osmose - where you get substantial physical travel on pressure, unlike the 1 or 2 mm on most modern PAT implementations. Of course, PAT here is great compared to not having any at all.
As always, incredible, in depth yet simple overview of a very complex instrument. FYI - there are two (2) shift buttons so you don’t have to reach across (2:51) there’s one right under the superknob that would have been faster…
Yup good video, but for that much money for an iteration in programming do you think they could have included a 15" touch screen? Is that tiny little you are here pin more visible in person than in the video? I didn't see it until you pointed to it.
Can you modulate the arpeggio list within a range, for a part, by any means? Or, is there any way other than manually, or else switching entire scenes, to send a part thru different arpeggios consecutively, changing every, say, 4-10 notes, something like that? Also, can you keytrack each filter separately? IOW, from the same keyboard split, can you have 1 filter 100% keytracked, and the other at -50%, or whatever?
no arp type is not a mod destination (some arp params are like gate, velocity, quantize, swing); yes there's filter tracking per filter in AN-X (note I didn't test any of these, just had a look on screen...)
Good demonstration congratulations, I just bought the Montage M8 but I feel that it is very heavy to touch and I feel that it has a little latency, do you had the same feel?
Thanks! No, I don't feel any latency. The keys are heavy and weighted relative to synth action keybeds for sure. As I mention in the video, my friend who is a very good level pianist feels the keys are very much like those on a real piano.
Great video and first one which clearly shows how it works and the pro/cons! Would love to switch to a workstation for live work and get rid of the laptop solution but there is always a drawback. If the plugin really works and has no stupid limitations (copy-protection or cloud like with Roland) this could make me jump aboard. However, as you also mention in the end, the high end Yamaha weighs a ton and the downsized versions look and feel dirt cheap.
Thanks! I agree that the MODX versions have a cheaper feel, but they're as light as a MIDI keyboard and have all the sounds of the Montage (previous version for now)
I already have a modX... I really think there was too much of a difference in price to go for the OG Montage... Just not worth spending that much of extra cash... But MontageM came out and after watching this video, I seriously consider upgrading...
Again a nice clear review. Im thinking to sell my Nautilus and MODX te buy this beast. The Nautilus is a drama to work well in Cubase. Keep up the good work mate. 👍
Thank you, thank you, thank you 1000 times more. this is the 1st video I've seen that thoroughly explains performance layer, part layer, and elements level and the organization and set up of the construction of performances. I get it now. Thanks new subscriber here too.
Yamaha se intoarce la AN ..DX dar uita de sequencerul care la facut faimos ........ ce pacat ....a pierdut o parte dintr-o categorie de pasionati .Daca ar include sequencerul din seria QY 300..700 SY ...maine ar fi al meu........asa..... astept ....poate yamaha ar intelege din nou termenul de workstacion!!!!!❤
I just watched your 5 year old MODX8 review with very detailed look at how to do things and at the end your comments about aftertouch and that it wasn’t a Montage. I am still a beginner as I bought a Alesis QS8 in 1999 and still think it’s Quadratic sound is exactly like the OBX the EVH used in Jump. So I really don’t want to spend $4500 on a new keyboard but I’m not happy with trying to use MIDI with my older MacBook Pro and dealing with the QS8 as a controller only. It is a heavy beast and obviously is very limited in what it can do. I want the knobs and hands on buttons and in looking at the Korg Nautilus they’ve removed most knobs and easier to use things and dumped it into a small screen. IMHO dumb. I really want to be able to hook up an external LCD monitor of a given size but I’m sure nobody puts that into keyboards. Old men with money have eyesight that isn’t as robust as 20 years ago. Lol. So your review will probably just mean I dedicate some savings and some overtime work to earn the cash to get the last keyboard I’ll buy.
Great video!!! Convinced me to pull the trigger on the MM6. I'm hoping with the lighter weight it will be more practical for gigs although the synth action is not conducive for AP & EP...
It's really nice looking. It baffles me though how you can design a flagship synth like this and not let people drag values via a touchscreen. Didn't the Korg Trinity let you do this 25 years ago?
I'd love a rompler style VST software with these engines. I have no desire to spend 3 grand on a hardware keyboard when I just want the sounds in a software format.
I miss some pads on the keyboard, by the way those keyboards should not have limited polyphony, they are so expensive to have a "limit", it feels like you have to adapt your setup to work with the instrument instead of the opposite, you're paying a huge amount of money, it should have some more options.
That thing sounds absolutely brilliant! It's a shame I'm just barely getting a modx+, but imma be happy wit that bih. I suppose this'll serve as a motivational pipe dream for me.
Thank you for the very good overview .Yes it is a cliffhanger ! So i will stay tuned for the episode " When Montage gets infused with Cubase .It would be good if the Montage had the chord track as is in Cubase .
Shame there is no stock anywhere in the uk , looks like a great product if they were available. I had a montage and a modx but got rid of both , the weight of this monster puts me off as i play live!
Thanks! Regarding the OSC parameters on the AN-X, there's something a bit weird. There's the ringmod/fm knob and in your demo as well as in Dom's demo it seems like turning the knob to the right (fm amount i'm assuming) doesn't do much most of the travel and after it passes 80% of the way it suddenly cranks up all at once and not in a very musical way. It is not clear whether there's additional control. Is this fm and ringmod a result of one of the other oscillators interacting with the edited one? Does changing their pitch or shape affect how the fm or ringmod sounds? Or is it like the sync where you have a hidden "ghost" oscillator that main oscillator syncs to?
Hmmm, well it would sure be interesting to hear what it sounds like when you set the osc to ringmod or fm and start messing around with osc 3's pitch or waveshape@@loopop
@@bateimidrashnetwork OK I checked it now, yes, it seems like the knob isn’t linear. Anyway, it’s not likely that I’ll make another video just for that. Sorry…
Thanks! No, it's ok i wasn't asking you to specially make another vid. Just to make sure that changing osc 3 does impact how the ringmod or fm sounds. I'll try and check this myself once the montage hits kley zemer@@loopop
There are so many differences between them (and others like the MPC keys and Fantom) and I can't answer in a simple comment - that needs long video... I address the main differences in the pros and cons. I don't think I have a particular preference (and even if I did I'd recommend you ignore it since my needs may be different than yours) - it really depends on what I'm trying to accomplish.
@@loopopI think a lot of people here would love to see more "comparison" videos 🙏 While what you have taught me once in a conversation, that every single gear has its own strength and approach to making music, I still think comparing what is comparable is a good way to understand that and at the same time would help to choose what would make the best gear according to each person's taste and workflow. You have this "magical touch" when it comes to bringing the best out of every synth, and your way of teaching how to appreciate every one of them is really much appreciated ❤
I will tell you the Korg Kronos/Nautilus has one of the most unfriendly UI I've ever encountered. It is menu diving to an enormous degree. You can not navigate anything without the manual. The graphic interface is so outdated and its even more difficult to understand what the graphics are even interpreting. Edit: I meant to also say that the Kronos sounds are beyond incredible. Other than wavetable synthesis (not wave sequencing) and granular, there isn't anything the Kronos can't do. It's sound capabilities rival even the best of today's workstations. Why do I still have the Kronos? It's sounds and I use a MPC Live II as the sequencer engine. Even thou, the Kronos has three sequencers, they're also very unfriendly.
Sound capabilities wise, Korg are still way ahead. Most people never bother with sound programming, and tens of thousands of presets are available for free or a very low price.
@@ErwinSchrodinger64 Yeah...I tried one in a store. I'm sure it makes more sense once you live with it for awhile, but I found myself getting really annoyed with it. The crappy keys on the Nautilus (61-key version) didn't help.
Curious on your professional opinion, if you had to reach for the Montage or Fantom EX, which would you or…..at that price bracket would you go down a different route,,,, BTW I truly enjoy the breakdowns you do on your videos keep up the amazing work, also your book is GREAT
Thanks very much for the kind words! I didn't want to ignore your comment but I truly believe what I'd choose would be irrelevant to you, because it's about which set of features and overall sound fits you vs which fits me - that's why I make these long videos - to share everything I know so you can decide. Luckily, no choice is wrong as both are very capable.
Hi me again. Can you pleas tell me how noisy the keybed of the 88 version is. I mean if you play on it will thy make a lot of noise like *bonking* sound. Or are the keys well insulated?
I own RM1x. I bought Motif XF because it has a the same 16 Section Pattern sequencer engine with 5 mute memory switches. I was interested in Montage and then Montage M came out. I was interested in Montage M for its AN engine. But I do not see any Pattern Controls on the controller switches. Did Montage M remove 16 Section Patterns? Can I still use my Motif XF patterns on this if I purchase it?
Nice. Is sound switching the same as old montage? I suggested to Yamaha they allow A-B-A-C switching to sustain pad A while switching B then C to solo. :-) (Old montage cuts A when you switch back to A from B even if B is silent and A still playing).
Yes, it's the same, however, with 128 elements instead of 8 per AWM2 part, you just might be able to program everything you need in one performance with mutes/splits/scenes etc
Great video, however I noticed that in Montage M per part, you can only split the keyboard up to 8 layers (or zones) instruments. So... I didn't understand at all if I can split the layers like in the Roland Fantom where I can split the keyboard by scene into up to 16 zones 🤔
Thanks! parts 9-16 are only controllable via MIDI, or, with the keyboard if you set them to the active track. You can also create many more splits and layers using elements
